The Psy-Op against Trump Is Working

I'm Dr John Gartner and I'm Harry seagull and welcome to another episode another session of shrinking Trump John and I are both clinical psychologists and John became aware really six or seven years ago of Trump's malignant narcissism that's what we call a severe personality disorder which explains Trump's uh legal Behavior lack of empathy compulsive lying uh but Trump has also been suffering from the early signs of dementia which has limited his cognitive flexibility often leads him to misspeak in strange ways what uh John and I and other clinicians call phonemic paraphasias where someone can't quite finish saying a word that they've started to say it's also affected his physical gate and the complexity his thinking and even though John and I might have political views about what Trump and his party have to offer as clinicians we have been extremely frightened I would say uh scared uh to death really of someone with this pathology uh getting back to the White House and having such an impact on the country and the world so John how do you think we've been doing well I think I think that the data is proving us correct and speaking of data I just want to let people know about our guest uh that's coming up at the end of the hour uh Dr Ben melis what's interesting is uh he was participated in two stat articles one from a number of years ago and one more recently where they looked at speeches of trump when he was younger and more currently to see if they could document cognitive decline and they had four different experts look at those speeches and come to some conclusions so this really is a a a small n clinical experiment and we're going to hear directly from Dr mallis uh in terms of what they found uh but it is to tease it a little bit consistent with our hypothesis um but the other thing that we want to talk about today is we've been talking about how George Conway's anti psychopath and also the Lincoln project have been micro beaming um their commercials their provocative commercials into marel Lago and into Bedminster um and so um I I actually mentioned this with regard to George I had not mentioned it with regard to Lincoln project but some people brought it up but it's true the Lincoln project has been doing it also I did mention that to George and actually he said that he did give Rick Wilson the idea just for the record um because he said and this is interesting you know remember George has seen Trump up close his wife was his campaign manager so he really has had a very intimate view of trump and he said I've just had this theory for all these years that we can provoke him into betraying himself and displaying himself because he is so easily provoked like a a little three-year-old bully um so more proof that it's working Trump's lawyer sent a cease and desist letter to the Lincoln project threatening to sue them if they didn't stop beaming their commercials into his Club here is the Lincoln projects response the Donald Trump for president campaign hit a bunch of people this afternoon with ceas and assist letters because our ads were too mean for Little Don again Donald poor little baby Donald got very upset because our ads were D this is the third time you've threatened to sue the Lincoln project they should call it the losers project this time it's because we told you the truth about how your campaign was failing broken and dead in the water wrong that you have the race sewn up it's sad Donald we told you Chris and Susie made a mistake when they bragged that Biden would stay in the race it's embarrassing Donald your whole campaign is a hot mess you're terrible on camera these days you just look old tired [ __ ] crazy the late great Hannibal Lector America's just done with you Donald and with the political team you have there's nothing you can do but lose lose lose is not fair they're so mean I love it it it's and it's interesting because what kamla Harris does when she's attacked really even more viciously if you ask me she's been attacked on Race she he calls her stupid he calls her garbage um she just shrugs and says well that's undignified but you see Trump can't respond that way he has not react he guess what he has to react and so that's something you can count on right in some sort of martial art right if you can get your opponent to react and you know you can do it right then he betrays himself then he he he reveals himself and and then he's off balance and then he's on defense and that's exactly what's happened but you know one of the things I'm so excited about is it's not just George Conway it's not just the Lincoln project guess who else has discovered the value of the strategy the kamla Harris campaign let's look at they have done brilliantly with their social media and they have gotten the message that this works let's see uh the latest uh quote tweet of Trump's post so Donald Trump posted we had to turn away lots of people yesterday in wilberry Pennsylvania but comrade kamla Harris's social media operation showed empty seats long before the rally started early in the afternoon when in actuality we had to turn away 11,500 people but kamla HQ we reposted that and they said no Donald we posted a video of your empty rally while you were speaking Americans are tired of your lies and slur filled delusions it's getting old because remember he's so sensitive about his crowd size and they added they included a video thank you thank New York County [Music] PA who are you gonna believe you're Your Lying Eyes John right who are you gonna believe the liar or Your Lying Eyes so you know but but look at how quick they are okay to how deaft they are all right they post something making fun of his crowd eyes he post something oh they're lying that was in the stadium before I even got there and they go no no Donnie that was when you were talking and everyone was leaving here's the video and so they're getting under his skin he has as we've talked about severe crowds siiz Envy okay severe crowd siiz anxiety that we believe has actually morphed into crowds siiz delusion so we're pushing him further and further into his um disturbance about his crowd size inferiority but you know what guess who else is teasing him about his crowd size even some of the people that you normally expect to go high there's the childish nicknames the crazy conspiracy theories this weird obsession with crowd sizes [Applause] you see what he did there it's just um yeah by some people are only listening I just went for the people who are only listening uh just because the visual is so important right uh while Obama was talking about his obsession with crowd size he he held his hands together right and then and then brought them closer together right to indicate a a small weeny kind of and actually it's it's a move that Trump makes a lot when he's speaking with his hands that's right was also making fun of him by the way what a pleasure pleasure it was to hear Obama give a speech again and a really I I believe a really profound one but you're right John they're they're not going they're not going high they're going right at him that's right well yeah rather than going high I prefer to follow my um my model Winston Churchill who said we'll fight them in the beaches we'll fight them in the streets I mean we'll we'll fight them wherever they are is the point yeah speak about crowd size some of our viewers have sent us in some cartoons that I just wanted to show so here's let's look at the first one so for those of you who are just listening there's a big Trump plane and there's a huge crowd outside of the airplane and they go wow what a crowd Kamala can't compete but then someone else says should we tell him those are the mental health professionals I like that thanks who sent that in I'm I would give them credit but I honestly can't remember but I do remember that the second one was sent in by a high school friend of mine an Kaplan who also was the head of Duty to war New York many years ago so she really wanted us to put this on the show but she didn't have to sell it it's really a good one let's look at this now for those of you who are just watching who are just listening it Trump is on a analyst couch and there's a Freudian looking analyst behind him and the analyst is saying to Trump these very large crowds are they in the room with us right now I love it I I just want to make one point about this because um it's not just that Trump reveals who he is if you attack him in this way he does he gets reactive but I don't know if any of you out there have have played chess I don't I I think I worked at it for a year or two when I was a graduate school I'm no chess player but one of the things about Chess that's so important is something called Tempo that is you always have to be keeping the other player off off balance if you give the player a chance to respond and then put you off balance they have the tempo right and so what the Lincoln project and and George Conway's anti psychop pack is doing is giving Tempo to camela Harris and they're jumping on it so they're they're just pushing him back and pushing him back as long as he's reacting he's losing right exactly and as long as he's defending himself he's losing um and one of the other areas in which he's feeling very defensive is being called weird you know for seven years we've been as mental health professionals we've been trying to sell the world on the fact that Donald Trump has a personality we could have just called him weird because weird is working folks all right and guess who else is pushing weird the mean people at the Lincoln project these people are eccentric offbeat maybe a little kooky yeah they're oddballs not quite normal but hey it's America we're okay with that but this guy this guy is weird in a bad way if you look at Martin Luther King when he uh did his speech we actually had more people weird in a creepy way you're going up the escalator I'm going to be dating her in 10 years I've said that if Ivanka weren't my daughter perhaps I'd be dating her weird in a dangerous way in 4 years you don't have to vote again we'll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to vote just weird don't you find some of their stuff to just be plain weird 99% of the things I'm saying are common sense too weird to be president these guys are creepy and yes just weird as hell [Music] a lot of talent and a lot of skill being put into these ads I think that's a good point I'm glad you say that because these people are working really really hard uh and the people who uh work with uh you know George Conway especially Barry Rubin a shout out who's who makes the ads it really is a a talent and they put a lot of a lot of work into it well you know it's the work is worth it because guess what he just can't stand people calling him weird it's driving him baddy um and you know one of the problems with having to defend yourself against these things if you're defending yourself you're losing right so let's hear Donald Trump explaining how he's not weird I'm not weird he a little bit by this whack job you know he said we're weird that JD and I are weird I think we're extremely normal people with like you exactly like he's weird did you ever see him go on the stage and go like crazy it's like he between his movement and her laugh there's a lot of craziness I'd say a step further than weird weird is a nice word by comparison I'm not weird you're weird see it's a very weak response very weak very weak response and and again he's off balance because Trump is usually in at least a few years ago he would have been much much tougher in his response well that's true he's also lost a step he's declined a lot actually a lot and that's where you see that lack of flexibility in his cognitive functioning because normally he always goes totally on offense and here he's clearly uh on defense well look you know we've talked about how they keep trying to project onto kamla and Tim Walls uh the weird label right so because you know that's somehow Donald Trump has got through life with one third grade defense you know uh it's um I'm not the pupp you you're the puppet and you know he was good somehow he was good at just saying you're the puppet somehow won but now it's sounding weak as you say I I I don't want to embarrass my stepson but there's a story that we tell in my family about my stepson fom is's a very very nice person okay that's really important to know so he was being bullied in third grade at at at his Hebrew Day School by by some rough Ruffian named Zachary and um you know he was trying to come up with a comeback to push Zachary in his place he said Zachary Zachary Beary it is a very weak response and the only reason I know the story is because my wife insists on telling it over and over again I'm sure he wish he wants to die every time she tells it wish he would stop telling it and certainly wouldn't want me telling it on the air but it's that feeling of a weak response you know it's a weak comeback you know it it doesn't feel like a comeback it feels like a fall down there's only there's only two comebacks to a bully right one is to act like you don't care at all just so really or to come back with something devastating that they haven't thought of right and that's what Trump can't do anymore he can't do well he never could do the first one but the second one he's not doing well anymore no he's just it's just Zachary packery but do do you remember in that first debate with Hillary when she said something about what he would do if he was in in charge of the justice department and without a a second break he said you'd be in jail I mean he he was really effective let's not pretend this is the Trump of 2016 or even 2020 he's declined a great deal that's why we're seeing him really kind of floundering along with the attacks that are pushing him back and taking away the the tempo the that's a yep there a very good point it's really an interaction effect so let's look at another one of their failed attempts to say that Kamala is the awkward and weird one okay Harris visited a sheets which had been cleared prior to arrival where she awkwardly bought Doritos twice apparently so you know look Harry we've all had cringy embarrassing moments in our life we can all identify I mean look I'm sure you can remember the last time you were a little embarrassed buying a bag of Doritos no you can't because there's nothing embarrassing about buying a bag of Doritos what are they talking about right it's just such a lame it's Zachary packery it doesn't work yeah now if we want to talk about people being weird in in retail establishments let's see an example uh the zoo has come to town thank you for letting us come in here yes yeah um I'm sorry she she doesn't want to be on film guys so just cut her out of anything appreciate that man um I'm J Dance I'm vice president okay um how long you I've been here since uh the beginning of July okay for this year okay good how about you uh almost two years okay good everything yeah I mean a lot of glaze here your some sprinkle stuff some these s rolls just whatever how long has this place been around about four years about four years okay how long you been here uh a little over six months okay good so awkward that that's awkward I feel bad for him in this one I do I don't like JD Vance but I I I mean he's he's trying and he's failing terribly they're so they have they want nothing to do with him first it begins with saying I don't want to be on camera you know so she's already said like please don't include me in whatever it is you're doing right now and he just sort of persist so how long you've been working here know doesn't care about any of these but but John when people do stuff like this there's an advaned crew and usually the person say Advance we go and meet with everyone say do you want to be on camera I just want to ask you some questions what do you say and if they all are like you know we're Democrats then you don't shoot that at that place right I mean that's standard it's standard Advance work so it's incompetent and poor JD Vance was set up to have these people not like him um you know that reminded me of I'm sure people can identify with this when you go into a store with your dad you know and he's overly familiar with the people across the C trying to make connection with you can see that they're bored and they just want to give him his oh how long you been working here at the donor shop well what do you like you're just going Dad please please stop doing that just John I I remember your father he was like so like I'm having post-traumatic stress disorder watching JD Vance in the doughnut shop I'm with you I'm having it too okay well um so let's look at another there another failed attempt to weird defy the normality of the the kamla waltz team totally not weird now for those people are just listening I need to describe this picture to you it's a picture of Doug EMF with his fa with his daughter um and she's hugging him she's put her you can see she's putting her arm around his shoulder and pulling him in and he's hugging her it's a side by-side picture and his hand is kind of resting on her hip and they're both looking you know very happy and content totally not weird well I can say that as a father of three daughters that picture is totally not weird there's nothing weird weird about that picture right Harry you have a a grown daughter is that a weird picture absolutely not Haley would do that in a minute yeah yeah yeah so so so so trying to make something to weird defy normality now let's go back to the RNC convention and see if we can see a different parent child interaction that might qualify as weird now for those of you who are listening I'm really sorry you cannot possibly appreciate this is a montage of five pictures of trump and Ivanka in one he's staring at her breasts in another he's kissing her on the lips another he's got his hand on her upper buttocks and he's staring at her breasts and another one he's just touching her breast it's no no listen I I'm laughing but it's so disturbing and it's so and I I I when you know when Trump was elected in 2016 um there was like a um one of these these Twitter uh um Twitter contest where you had to come up with four words to talk about how you were thinking about the Trump uh and mine was secretly rooting for Ivanka because I was I thought maybe she could she could balance Trumper she couldn't do anything with him he the abuse that he put her through he demanded that she get um a face job a a a breast job I mean he he he turned with her breasts well seems to have a real preoccupation with her breasts I mean just seems to be I mean she she's she's a you know for for Trump everybody's an object for pleasure or derision yes yes yes and that and that is weird that's weird well it's it's disturbed because we're psychologist we don't have to say weird we can say disturbed because it's very disturbed it's it's it's Disturbed it's weird because it's Disturbed well um so Harry you you went uh picked out some Choice low low points of Donald Trump's wils Berry rally in Pennsylvania yeah I I uh as I often say in this show that I watch the rally so that you don't have to uh and I have to say um this was a hard one to watch and and also you know he does repeat a lot um I I had a grandmother in her 90s who who I think who had her own narcissistic disorder and also was was was declining in her 90s and and my grandmother um and she did it since she was a young woman would just tell the same stories over and over again um and and you'd have to wait and listen to them because she she wouldn't tolerate any break of attention I discovered as a young man because I really loved her and I used to talk with her once a week on Sunday for like a couple hours I used to do the dishes and stuff because she just talked I'd always wait for the one story she had never told me call there'd be one story and that would be the tell that would be how she was really feeling and now I'm discovering with Trump is that he's repeating the stuff but it's when he has a variation or he inserts something new you have a sense really where his his mind is because he's relying on these these um these kind of U uh sort of strips of language and strips of stories that he just he's he's actually going to with more and more um kind of Randomness so anyway I I tried to make some sense but Harry but Harry you you do remember that you've told us that story before right did I no I'm just gaslighting [Laughter] you oh thank goodness I am not showing signs of dementia so far and and I I'm reminded of a great comedian who who was once talked about how terrified he was of getting Alzheimer's disease so he baked a poison pie and left it in his refrigerator you'll get it all right let's let's start with the first clip Rex if we can you know they do polls and this stuff and I'm at like 93% I said so why are we having an election they didn't have an election why are we having an election 93% he's behind Five Points in every single swing state poll and also in the in the National polls why should we have an election right that's what he's Preparing People for you know he he always says what he's going to do and and and then normalizes by repeating it over and over so he's already starting with this why should we have an election uh if he were to win for after four years of hearing why should we have an election you know half the country is like yeah why should we have an election that's that's the danger right um and then you know John and I have been talking about his um the way he demonizes immigrants the way that Hitler demonized the Jews but Trump has a very complicated relationship with Jews as well doesn't he listen to this clip and she turned down your Governor by the way just so you understand I know some of you probably like him I don't think he's a good person I don't think he's good I don't think he's good but they turned him down because he's Jewish okay that's why they turned him down now we can be politically correct and not say that I could say well they turned him down for very ious reasons no no they turned him down because he's Jewish that's why they turned him [Music] down and I'll tell you this any Jewish person that votes for her or a Democrat has to go out and have their head examined because if you see what's happening with Israel and Jewish people right now there has never been there has never been a more dangerous time since the Holocaust if you happen to be Jewish in America there's never been anything like it I'm seeing things I can't even believe it and we want to bring about unity and peace and everything else it looks like the uh it looks like they're going to have nothing but riots out there in Chicago he wants to bring about unity and peace and yet there are good Jews and bad Jews you know that's how it starts by the way you you you don't you're not anti-semitic you just talk about the good ones and the bad ones then that you can take care of the bad ones right right that's a good point yeah because they sort of have this ambivalent because Jews can be useful to them right they have big Jewish donors um and the Israel issue has brought um a lot of Jews to their side people who who who have a sincere concern about defending Israel's survival um have identified M El unfortunately with a lot of these right-wing regimes feeling that they will be strong and and protect Israel but of course by being so anti- peace they're actually in the long run jeopardizing Israel security the only thing going really ever make Israel secure is and I don't know if we will ever be able to achieve it but the goal is to have a peace agreement um so that we can live in peace um so that's the the problem is that it's not really good for Israel it's not really good for the Jews and the thing is what he's obviously doing is projecting his own anti-semitism right exact he would not hire someone because they were Jewish I don't think Kamala would do that since she married a Jew and is happily married to a Jew you know and has a wonderful relationship with his CH his children as her stepchildren uh so it's it's it's complete projection no and and of course Ivanka has married someone Jewish and they actually I think they are they're kosher um but I I think for Trump that you know he was one of the good ones you know ironically a lot of I mean we're Jewish and a lot of people my fellow Jews were saying I hope they don't pick Shapiro this is a long-standing Jewish thing we you don't want to pick your head up too high because then anti-Semitism might be aroused you know so it's like oh it' be safer if we don't have a Jew on the ticket oh no you know then they're oh you think that doesn't matter oh wait till you see if Hitler were here he'd come for you too you know so we've all been raised on that you know we don't want to put chose too much in the spotlight because it's going to arouse anti-Semitism so there's I heard ironically a lot of Jewish people saying I hope they won't choose him because he's Jewish we need to win this election we don't need to break another glass ceiling but John this has been a year where anti-semitic actions have really um skyrocketed around the world not just in America but in France and other places so I I understand that Rising anxiety um I don't think Shapiro was a good match for kamla I don't think yeah yeah with him being Jewish I don't think he was a good match um but but in any case um we should go on so um and and in this clip um Trump is really uh happy about a very special endorsement that he received Victor Orban of Hungary prime minister of Hungary they asked him pretty recently they said uh what's going on the world is coming to an end he said if you want to stop it reelect the United States reelect Donald Trump because when he was there he didn't have any problems we didn't have problems so here's our treason of the week yeah you know Victor Orban is a Putin puppet so he's saying he's endorsed by a puin Putin puppet he's therefore announcing that he is an enemy of the United States that he is an agent of a hostile foreign power and it's it's actually even worse than him being a puppet Orban has dismantled the government he has dismantled the Press he's dismantled the universities I saw um uh an interview with uh Amna naal on um Naas on PBS Where She interviewed him she was she's so great and she was so strong with him he got furious with her on the air I mean you could see that he he could barely contain himself the rage at being challenged by a journalist and this is the kind of guy that Trump is proud to say endorses him right but also again I just marvel at the stupidity that literally if they were wearing red and blue uniforms with numbers on them and their names it couldn't be clear which side these people are on they're on the Russian team it's just so obvious and it's it makes me realize that look never forget that the head of the FBI is a member of the Federalist Society okay because why is no one being prosecuted for these Russian connections we're seeing treason in plain sight and yet nothing is being done about it um just to go on to a couple of of nasty things that Trump says about kamla which really aren't laugh aren't Landing aren't true yeah have you heard her laugh that is the laugh of a crazy person that is a laugh of a crazy it's a laugh of a lunatic have you heard it you know they prohibited her they prohibited her for laughing I i' you I've been waiting for her to laugh because as soon as she laughs the election's over you know I I want to point out something and I've been seeing this with Trump in the last couple years I don't remember it so much four years ago he's calling everybody crazy he called he called uh uh Smith deranged he's relying on that term lunatic in a way that makes me think that he's worried about his own mental health he's worried about his own mental health he's really focused on this notion of insanity you know the mental the insane asylums which are different from mental institutions I which of course is but he's focusing it on so much it's really a go-to for him in his limited cognitive range now it's think of all the insults in 2016 you know he didn't call Jeb Bush crazy he called him low energy right right like it was much smarter it kind of it spoke to something no one would look at KLA Harrison and say she was crazy or Jack Smith for that matter there's nothing crazy about now do you want to hear what a a crazy laugh sounds like sure that's right folks you just heard Sil do you know why because Donald Trump is disturbed because he doesn't laugh you've never heard Donald Trump laugh and that's one of the sickest things about him and we're going to go to one more comment that well two more comments but this next one is again it's new you know I told you I listen for the new things in the rallies this is a new one she said KLA has one big Advantage she's a very beautiful woman [Applause] [Music] she's a beautiful woman so I decided to go back and reread the cloth I'm not saying he's but I say that I am much better looking than her I think I'm much better much better I'm a better looking person than Kamala it drives him crazy drives crazy that she's more attractive than him but I don't I don't mean to uh to push this too hard the whole dog whistle thing but I think he's saying he's white I really do okay I mean he could be I think though he's someone who has an enormous fascination with physical attractiveness and Beauty it's something he's been obsessed with his whole life uh and and really you know he's fired people for not being attractive enough you know H not looking the part he's very because you know he's a narcissist for crying out loud so of course he's very preoccupied with physical Beauty it's even in the diagnostic criteria that preoccupation with physical Beauty in in narcissism and so the reality is she's prettier than he is that's reality but he can't stand it so he has to actually say well I think I'm actually more attractive than her what do you think I I still think there's something about the otherness of kamla for him yeah like but but I'm saying it but I'm saying it makes him crazy that she could be more attractive than him you know what I mean that might make him want to reference her race more because he's got to do something to Mar you know her her beauty he can't accept that she is beautiful all right and we have one last one uh Rex you know when she sits and complains hey look look Joe Biden hates her okay hates her you don't mind if I go off teleprompter for a second do you Joe Biden hates her this was an overthrow of a president this was an overthrow they went out you know I spent $100 million fighting Joe Biden they told him he couldn't when his debate performance wasn't the best ever but they said mine was the best ever but they said his debate performance wasn't I look forward to debating her by the way she'll be easier she'll be easier than him course projecting right we can't imagine that there might be love between two people who are who who were one trading power trading off power to the other can't imagine of course Biden hates her and Biden is he we mentioned last time he said was going to have a coup at the convention which well look at that it didn't happen who who could have predicted that but you know again Harry it's a projection because we're going to talk about the loving you're going to be talking later I know in a couple minutes about the loving relationship between kamla and and and Biden but you know who really does have complete and total contempt for Donald Trump his own running mate didn't vote for Trump a never Trump guy I never liked him it makes you think that at a fundamental level this is sort of a he said she said right and at the end of the day do you believe Donald Trump who always tells the truth just kidding or do you believe that woman on that team I cannot stand Trump because I think he's a fraud well I think he's a total fraud that is exploiting these people who is a total fraud like you said I agree with you on Trump because I don't think that he's the person I I I don't think he actually cares about folks so as a conservative who thinks that Trump does not have the answers and isn't qualified to be president what are you going to do this election if you don't mind saying uh my current plan is to vote either so jdance hates Donald Trump he has total contempt for him he said I don't like him okay so he he hates Trump but because he's a psychopath and an opportunist he sees his opening he could become president through this Gambit right yeah so now he's a a trump guy but in other words Trump is seeing a hateful relationship between kamla and and Biden but the true hateful relationship is between his own running mate and himself well don't but don't forget John you who pointed out that JD Vance spent a year or so courting Don Jr becoming friends with him and it was Don Jr Who convinced Trump to endorse JD Vance for Senate which JD Vance barely won that's why he's having such a hard time he's not a great candidate and then Trump took him and what JD van says is well once I saw Trump in office I realized what a great president he was yeah yeah right um all right so there just a few more miscellaneous um things in this week in Trump one thing that he got into a lot of trouble about right was saying that the medal of freedom was better than the Medal of Honor really with one fell managing to just insult every veteran in America I couldn't believe it I saw it live John I saw it live I couldn't believe it and again he now he's on his back foot trying to defend this comment so let's hear that many veterans are upset about that including here in Pennsylvania no I didn't hear that I only heard when I say better I would rather in a certain way get it because people that get the Congressional Medal of Honor which I've given to many are often horribly wounded or dead they're often dead they get it POS humously and uh when you get the Congressional Medal of Honor I always consider that to be the ultimate but it is a painful thing to get it when you get the presidential medal of freedom it's usually for other things like you've achieved great success in sports or you've achieved great you know success someplace else when you get the Medal of Honor generally speaking and I've met many of them and I've seen the families of many of them this is an incredible honor but it was a statement that it's much more painful to get because they're often times in very bad shape I've seen them come up and uh they've suffered greatly whereas the presidential medal of freedom to my knowledge I don't think anybody suffered then they've you know they've worked hard and they've done great things one's a Military Award one's a civilian award uh but sometimes very painful to get the other he didn't say it was more painful to get the other he said it was better as he gave it to Marian adelon who was just a billionaire wife of a donor I mean it it's just it's that's so heroic that's so heroic that she gave all that money to a fascist to fund his election so that then he could cut her all these sweetheart deals what a hero that's better than dying on the beaches of Normandy to protect our freedom it's it's really it's it's it's such a rookie mistake like it's so crazy that he's making these mistakes it's it's really disturbing isn't it yeah and some of the logic too though was well it's better to get the medal of freedom because a lot of these people who get the other one they're kind of in bad shape yeah they don't look so so he's not thinking about which is more noble which is a greater honor he's saying like you know would you want to get you know you're kind of in bad that's not always the greatest award to get because then you're then dead or you're in bad shape right it's it's awarded P humously what did he say p humously it's p humorously to us but uh right anyway moving on uh let's just hear another little statement that he made that's just a little stupid thing okay we're going to bring up electronic too Electronics we buy everything away when you see the sophistication of the product I just saw at this place Electronics is peanuts by comparison but see this is what I mean he just uses these sort of large blocky ideas like he's just going to keep saying the word Electronics you know and and of course he says and we buy them away like it's a takeaway takeout restaurant so that's a weird phrasing of course but but this thing is he just says and the other thing he does he does with crypto too when something's well it's really complicated you know um some very brilliant people have have talked about it it's Electronics it's crypto it's complicated he can't get Beyond a word to really get a concept so he just repeats the word in an awkward way yeah and he's slipping he's slipping there too yeah exactly and the other thing is the next piece of type I'm going to show I bring this up every week and every week I say there's nothing new here I'm not giving you any new information I'm talking about this because I have promised that I will talk about it every week because he talks about it every week I've said that Donald Trump has malignant narcissism a disorder that was based on Hitler uh and meant to apply to other similar leaders and I believe Donald Trump is the American Hitler wannabe and immigrants are his Jews let's hear what he has to say about immigrants this week comma refuses even to call these criminals and we're not going to use the term she said illegal aliens no they are illegal aliens but she said don't ever use that term but they're not just illegal aliens honestly they're monsters these are Savage monsters so immigrants are monsters okay a monster is something that is subhuman that is evil and that need needs to be destroyed in order for you to survive okay so calling immigrants monsters is the preamble to some kind of wave of persecution and yes maybe even could lead to genocide it's the language of genocide well don't don't don't forget at their convention they called for the greatest deportation in history millions and millions of people being rounded up and ejected from the country which besides being a horrific and vile thing to do would probably crash the economy given all those people are working but it the whole thing is is really despicable and they're not all just going to be deported Harry millions of them are going to be kept in concentration camps yeah he's already made plans to build out huge camps in the desert right and I remind people concentration camps and death camps are not the same thing I'm not saying he's planning death camps though I wouldn't put it pass him but he what what but a concentration camp is when you basically imprison a population of people to concentrate them away from the general population and so I am saying you we think about Nazi Germany how could people have allowed millions of their neighbors to be CED away and taken to camps well you know what if Donald Trump is elected he's going to cart millions of your neighbors away to camps and you're probably not going to do anything about it to be honest okay so that's how it happened happens so Harry one of the things that we've been criticized about is diagnosing Donald Trump from a distance but as you know as a mental health professional there's a number of different ways that we make diagnosis and one of them is by speaking to informants who know the subject very well and can speak to their behavior uh and their frame of mind um so here is Stephanie Grisham at the convention talking about Donald Trump who she knows very well well she was his last press secretary behind closed doors Trump mocks his supporters he calls them basement dwellers on a hospital visit one time when people were dying in the ICU he was mad that the cameras were not watching him he has no empathy no morals and no Fidelity to the truth he used to tell me it doesn't matter what you say Stephanie say it enough and people will believe you but it does matter what you says matter and what you don't say matters on January 6th I asked Melania if we could at least tweet that while peaceful protest is the right of every American there's no place for lawlessness or violence she replied with one word no so there there's the diagnostic criteria for a narcissistic sociopath she listed them U no it's really I I'm very brave of her to to come to the convention and give that speech um now we're going to talk about psychological Health in contrast to Trump uh but I was watching Morning Joe and John hman was on and he he's starting to say the things that John and I have been wanting the press to say in fact John has made efforts over the past several years talking to producers at CNN and MSNBC to talk about raising this issue of Trump's dementia and they keep shutting you down now we have a major journalist who one who I I particularly respect and after I saw this on Morning Joe I had to wait for a YouTube version to come up so I could find the clip it's short but uh Hilman is talking about um how Trump was uh backpedaling on January 6th and then he said this of all the things that have happened in the last month with Trump where we have seen him in a state of uh strategic flailing and I have said you know I keep saying it over and over again I it's just evident that his mental acuity uh and his cognitive state is in addition to his psychic state but his cognitive state is really becoming much more starkly evident how far he's failing and falling so this is great Harry um the the mainstream press is starting to talk about his cognitive decline so look better late than never absolutely no no it's really happening and and Hilman who's just who's so uh astute I think was able to to explain to describe that so succinctly but it in a way um devastatingly I think it's just is like we're now noticing it so we've just spent 50 minutes talking about Psychopathology and Trump and Vance now we'd actually like to talk about health and normality in the Kamala Harris uh Tim Walls campaign well I I've been making the argument that that Trump depends on people identifying with his sense of being a victim and identifying with his rageful reasing of power but we're seeing on the other side a very open emotionally expressive affectionate happy experience that's happening on the other side which I think is really affecting the audiences we're going to start with this [Applause] clip you can't fake that you cannot fake that it's so moving um and she it wasn't even on Mike it was just um she saying I love you no no and and the way that she's hugging him it's um um I I'm very moved by it um and then um let's let's go to Biden's Farewell Address uh from Monday night nowhere else in the world could a kid with a stutter and modest Beginnings in Grand Pennsylvanian Claymont Delaware grow up to sit behind the Resolute desk in the Oval Office than that's because America is and always has been a nation of possibilities possibilities we must never lose that never comml and Tim understand that this nation must continue to be a place of possibilities not just for the few of us but for all of us but join me in promising your whole heart to this and where my heart will be I promise I'll be the best volunteer Harris and wals has cam have ever seen each of us has a part in the American story for me and my family there's a song that means a lot to us that captures the best of who we are as an Nation the song is called American Anthem there's one verse that stands out and I can't sing with the dam I'm not going to try I'll just quote it the work and prayers of centuries have brought us to this day what shall our leg our Legacy be what will our children say let me know in my heart when my days are through America America I gave my best to you I made I made a lot of mistakes in my career but I gave my best to you for 50 years like many of you I've given my heart and soul to our nation and I've been blessed a million times in return the support of the American people I've either been the two young to be in the Senate because I wasn't 30 yet and too old to stay as president president but I hope you know how grateful I am to all of you I can honestly say and I mean this from the bottom give you my word as a Biden I can honestly say I'm more optimistic about the future than I was when I was elected as a 29y old United States Senator I mean it folks we just have to remember who we are we're the United States of America and there's nothing we cannot do when we do it together God bless you all and may God protect our [Applause] troops look at all the love in that room but also his saying I'm going to be your best volunteer you know it feels very very uh sincere and also I'm glad he mentioned the thing about the stutter you know we were talking about that on this show that a lot of what really made him look worse than he was in terms of his performances that he's had this lifelong stutter and that as we had Eric Jackson on as an expert who said that as he's aged his ability to control the stutter has gotten worse um so I'm glad he mentioned his his disability and how you know a young boy with a stutter was able to rise to become uh pre president I I also think no I agree with you but I I was really um you know you see the waltz's getting tearful yes I wanted to mention that too I thought was beautiful and and also I just want to remind people um Trump said that that that Joe Biden was dumb couldn't put two words together isn't really president the people around the desk are all doing it the the the the vicious um disrespect and port of Biden that Trump had to create because of his own narcissistic injuries right that the other person has to be terrible it's all beaten down if you just watch that speech it's it's genuine it's authentic you can feel it you can feel his his sorrow as well as his generosity you can feel his what it means to say goodbye after 50 years in politics I just think it was wonderful it was beautiful and actually I'm again sensitive to the people who are listening and not watching I'm glad you mentioned uh wals tear tearing up it was it was very you know again even good actors can't cry on Q that easily you know this was very sincere uh they showed two signs of his crying and by the way speaking about crying those of you who've been watching the Convention as I have obsessively or or even watch the highlights you've probably seen that scene of Tim Wall's son uh crying you know and saying that's my dad I have to admit during that moment I cried okay when I was watching the convention and you know his son was so tears streaming down his face stands up it's clapping for Keeps pointing that's my dad that's my dad I mean Harry you know as a parent right how could that not make you cry to think of a a child being that filled up right with with with joyous admiration for their their parent it's just such a human moment well guess what the conservatives did on Twitter they took pictures of this young boy crying for his father and said oh look at this not weird huh not weird huh Can I show I do we have a uh do we have a bit of that or what you know actually I I I I saw that tweet right before we went on the air and I wanted to add it but like our poor our poor producer Rex we just burdened him with so much uh Graphics that I thought I would just verbally describe it to you but I think it's it's really again how they pathologize Health how they pathologize normality right oh people who laugh people who love what pathetic little weaklings they must be so embarassed H I know no it's terrible um well we have one more you have one more clip all right let's see this one well trust me Milwaukee a hell of a lot can change in four weeks you you run a campaign based on fear like them you're going to run into a little trouble when you run into a campaign that's based on Joy these guys are focused on the past like the 1850s past this campaign's focused on your future we're not going [Applause] back wow wow wow here's the deal here's the deal that convention had one purpose to coronate one man our by the way they got a little party going over in Chicago they didn't know the big party was here in Milwaukee tonight so this is where it's at it's not a celebration of a coronation of one man over there it's a celebration of all of us over there I don't I don't imagine anybody will be pay any attention but when I came out here uh you might have heard over there that convention and the energy over there is like nothing you've seen but here's what I'm really excited about not only do we have massive energy at our convention we got a hell of a lot more energy at where they had their convention right here yeah if people don't know that so so this was C this was beautiful uh double programming so so Tim wson um and kamla are in the same place where the Republicans held their convention they filled that place massively and the the uh the stadium in Chicago I mean talk about trying to go after the uh the crowds siiz envy that Trump suffers from yes yes well so um now we're going to be introducing uh Our Guest um Ben mallis is a PhD he's a psychologist he's a forensic psychologist and the reason that we're having him on this show is he participated in a very interesting experiment uh stat is a magazine some of you may not be familiar with it it's sort of a scientific magazine that has very interesting research and scholarly articles but aimed at normal people um and they did a study actually they repeated a study and Dr mallis was actually part of both waves of the study I remember the stat article in 2017 by Sharon Begley where she had a group of experts she didn't say who they were but she had a group of experts read um speeches that Trump had done in 20 early in his career in the 80s and ones that he had done in 2017 and the group came to the conclusion that there was cognitive deteri deterioration or signs of potential cognitive deterioration well they re at at stat they repeated that experiment again and Dr mallis was one of the experts so let's just take a look at that article Trump keeps losing his train of thought cognitive experts have theories about why M Callis who also reviewed Trump's speaking style for stat in 2017 and showed how it had become significantly less sophisticated over decades said the most important change in the past seven years is Trump's increasing digressions and speeches that don't stay on topic which he explained can be an indication of diminished cognitive ability quote tangentiality certainly amped up and it's difficult to follow him mallus said quote you'd expect some cognitive diminishment of course he's 78 years old if he was your grandfather you wouldn't expect anything different he just happens to be running for president although melus said he couldn't offer a formal diagnosis he did say Trump's speaking style was a cause for concern quote there's reasonable evidence suggestive of forms of dementia he said the reduction in complexity of sentences and vocabulary does lead you to a certain picture of cognitive diminishment Dr mallis thank you so much for joining us thank you for having me on the show sincerely great to have you and you know I remember that article in 2017 by Sharon Begley I I was quoting that article a lot and so I was so excited to see that there was a sequel I didn't know that you had participated in both I had uh I I did the uh formal analysis or was part of the formal in 2017 um looking at clips from when Trump was in his 40s to um when he was in his early 70s at that time um and I mean there's if you've seen that there's no there's no question right in terms of the sentence structure in terms of the use of vocabulary and I mean he was when when he was in his 40s he was very articulate very sharp um and yeah there was the the difference between those was quite significant um and you know this was um to be to be fair was less of a formal study than we did in 2017 this was I was looking at a series of Clips um and one of the things that I said to uh the author uh Olivia goldhill when we were talking through it was look there is there's some there are definitely some differences the thing that I wanted to make sure to be very clear about is there was a lot of focus on um word substitution and things of that nature and I think that's a little bit of a red herring I I don't want to put too much on that I think that the the most important thing is actually to look at the sort of the the sort of trend of thought that he's really unable to sort of hold on to a trend of thought for a long period of time uh and as I'm sure both of you know there's a there's a whole range of that in uh people with with formal thought disorders and what have you yes no I I had of other experts have emphasized that too that in some ways maybe we can be too picky looking at the pheic paraphasia or some maybe some of the a little bit of a gotcha but the overall trend of the tangentiality the difficulty in completing a thought the Meandering the the the the things that don't make sense that just seem to be free associations precisely there really is more of you know moving from kind of linear thinking which was evident when he was younger to less linear thinking to now you know more circumstantiality sort of he could get very detailed in his speech you know and then get derailed then you know eventually come back to the topic you know tangentiality some sometimes never returning and it points this sort of almost like a looseness of Association that you again I'm not diagnosing him uh but that when you're when you're working in in uh with more severely Disturbed individuals that you tend to see I mean you know at the most extreme this is more of a informal term that I'm sure both of you know like word salad is the most extreme where there's just words being thrown up and they don't really right there's no association right this is more like I'm trying to think of it what would be between a salad and um an entree Mo Bush yeah I'm sorry I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't pull the analogy I tried if only yeah you know I just have a couple comments first of all um what we showed on on some previous um uh John calls our shows sessions of some previous sessions was Trump digressing and then saying you see I'm a genius I'm going to come back so he would catch himself doing and then rationalized but it's even worse I think lately and I um I I mentioned this last week but but I I was I've been watching one of the rallies because I watched them all the way through but but for fun I skipped every minute and a half and they were all different I mean within 30 seconds he's going somewhere else and it didn't used to be that way he used to be able to elaborate and develop ideas he's not doing it anymore he's gumming together ideas indeed and the thing that you mentioned and which I think is really important look for the he is a and you know I was listening on to the earlier segment listening to the two of you talk a little bit about um finally there is now a increased focus on some of uh Trum Trump's obvious cognitive Di diminishment and that that wasn't happening you know frankly when you when Biden was in the race and that was you know say whatever you want to say about that um now that you have this severe contrast right between someone who just cannot stay on can't stay on topic he can't stay on message you know all the evidence indicates again this is from the reporting that his frankly his line of attack should be pretty Lo should should be pretty logical and he doesn't seem to be able to do it um and you know he has these sort of you know go on these tangents and the nicknames and all I mean it's he's an Entertainer really like he's he's he's an Entertainer you know I'm glad you mentioned him being an Entertainer because I think that's one of the re ways he's been able to hide these what I would call Gross cognitive deficits and my my wife thought one of the funniest things I said as I said he does improv with himself you know in improv whatever the person says you just go with it if you some and and and so if someone says oh it's I see all these monkeys outside oh it's early in the year for monkeys I mean you just go with it right and so whatever crazy thing comes out of his mouth like the late great Hannibal Lector right instead of being embarrassed because of course he's Brazen and he's in capable being embarrassed he actually does the opposite he doubles down on it he he acts like it's cool like oh they don't want me to talk about Hannibal leor the great great but it's crazy but the point is he just he somehow has this way as an entertainer of making this look [Laughter] good look I want to say one thing and I I I hate to even give him a compliment but I'm gonna give him a compliment go for it yeah when he was um when when he during the assassination attempt there was this moment that after the shooting he had yes the Instinct I'm not gonna say the wherewithal the instinct to stand up and raise his fist yeah and I was like wow like that was Instinct you know you're you're in shock really yeah and it's it is that is a that is a that is a I don't know what you want to say but rare gift to be able to like have that because that shot was worth you know so much for them oh yeah that's when we thought we were dead we thought we were dead after that no no exactly and and and we're old enough to remember you know Ronald Reagan surviving an assassination attempt and he was never stronger politically afterwards um I really like what you're saying but I also want to about the the showmen because you're absolutely right the the the ability to connect with the audience in the way that he does is not something that's been diminished by his cognitive decline so when you see him in softball interviews or listen that rally that I was showing C from took place in the late afternoon in wilbury and in the opening man was he Charming he warmed up the audience he talked to the local people who were there the local you know State people um and and he he really hears the audience he knows when he's losing them he has all the instincts of someone who can hold a room it's just that he's losing the ability to to think in elaborate or complex ways and it's starting to show at least that's how I'm seeing it does that make sense to you losing or lost uh but yes um and is really the only question but look the way in which he's honed his messaging um if you can call it that but certainly when he was um in 2015 and you know look I I was very outspoken that that's part of why I got involved with stat and what have you I was very concerned to see the sort of obv it was like so obvious it wasn't even interesting in some ways the the the narcissistic Tendencies and that you give someone the you know the Throne of power and how dangerous that is um obviously and so I was you know it was very you know much out there at that time but the if you watched his messaging then he really sort of like looks at what works feels what works with the crowd and he's like all right that's gonna be my my message I'm Gonna Keep that's the the nicknames come from that it's like he he gets the positive reinforcement from the crowd he's like okay I got this and it's like a frankly it's like a comedian right comedians do this over and over and over and over again Bill Mar says he's a comedian that's I mean he just says he's doing shtick um yeah although it's it's a it's a weird kind of autocratic version of Comedy I guess take my country yeah very dark dark comedy let's put it that [Laughter] way well you know actually we're using these technical terms but obviously not everyone understands them I wonder if we could just back up a little bit you're talking about his tangentiality maybe just explain to the audience what tangentiality means sure so someone that is um again these all things these all exist on a spectrum and it's not perfectly linear but you know someone that is when we're talking you expect that we're going to stay relatively on topic we may digress here or there but we're we're generally following a certain line that that I would consider to be linear thinking you both know that when you are evaluating someone for their cognitive functioning that is one of the first things you look for can they remain linear um and then sort of going down the line you go to circumstantiality where again they they digress more the sort of the the the variance is wider but there's they eventually return to the topic at hand okay so that's like would be one step away um then um tangentiality is like kind of a continuous diversion they're continuously diverting um there's really no actual return to that that former line of linearity you know you go a little further there's just kind of real looseness of associations um where they're just the person is just changing to you know sort of like you were saying you were watching them and every few minutes you're like what is he talking about um and then there's like derailment um which is like really almost like uh unrelated thoughts that are coming right after each other to a flight of ideas where you know a person jumps from topic to topic there's just there's no uh discernable associations where you tend to see someone that's like in acute Mania uh in a manic state will have that kind of flight of ideas and then as we mentioned earlier kind of this sort of word salad which you often tend to see with someone with you know uh with dementia people that are in you know flored psychotic State some with schizophrenia someone with lesions to their vernes area um and it's just completely incoherent um and so that's that's really what uh that's what I was getting at you know so so in the article I I I think I quoted you as saying I'm not diagnosing him but the signs are consistent with dementia so without asking you to diagnose him could you just elaborate a little more what it was that led you to make the statement that what you were observing was consistent the diagnosis of dementia you know it really is it's it's it's all of it in totality um but being able that the someone that is having impairment potentially even uh immediate memory impairment you know they're losing their way they're losing their way and and as you said um a few moments ago um I mean part of his gift and his ability to kind of cover which you know people that are um often suffering from dementia they do cover um they they often will be very careful either to um not speak because they don't want to reveal that they have dementia but part of his gift as an Entertainer is that he's able to be like yeah when I mean that's what I meant when I was talking about sharks like electrocuted sharks and you're like what do you what's like but the crowd I mean he is he is as he's Dynamic and he's compelling and that's part of why when you were looking at at Joe Biden comparatively yeah who has a stutter who you know I to my knowledge you know doesn't do a lot of the the things that uh to again to my knowledge Trump does to preserve his physical appearance so he appears younger the the the tanning the you know all the whitening all those things that give a illusion of someone that's younger and his like kind of natural gifts as Entertainer he's like yeah that's what I meant and and the fact that he's often playing to people that are you know look let's let's put it this way guys you know Walt Disney whatever you want to say about Walt Disney would say look the I I like the lines at my amusement parks because it makes people appreciate the rides more right they have to wait longer right that that's genius Showmanship right there but these when you come to his rallies that people like drive for miles for hours are you really not going to be satisfied with the headliner you've just spent $70 on merchandise with his name on it you are lined up to ensure that you are part of the cult of personalities a and and you hang around in the stadium for three hours until he speaks so there's this whole networking that's going on you're making friends you know and there are people who go to Every rally they drive around in their cars to follow him it's like the it's like the Grateful Dead except they're he's The Ungrateful un alive yeah you know I want to get back to what we were saying about how this all kind of comes together sort of seamlessly and I think the um Hannibal lecor moment is a great example he's try he's starting out in that in that speech where he first introduces the late great Hannibal Lector he starts up by saying you know they're not sending their best they're sending them from a lunatic asylums they're sending them from lunatic asylums and you know these are the worst uh and lunatic and a lunatic asylum makes him think about a movie he saw about a lunatic asylum because after he's talking about the immigrants coming from the lunatic asylums he goes has anybody seen Silence of the Lambs like completely random he didn't even do that he just went right into Hannibal Lector no no he asked if anyone had seen Silence of the Lambs he asked not the the first time he told it didn't well anyway I think he did but anyway it's more sever it's more sever not right but but but but so an asylum makes him think of a movie about Asylum and then he goes the late great Hannibal elector okay now first of all saying the late Hannibal leor implies that he was a living person who died so that's he's now gone from a loose Association about insane asylums to a movie about an insane asylum to a fictional character who took who was in an insane asylum now making him a living character who is deceased and also because he's such so perverse making him the great Hannibal leor as if some sort of vicious serial killer is you know someone that we would memorialize or idealize but only if you're a malignant narcissist so that's more of a psychodynamic view into his Twisted mind right but but that kind of and then what he does with it is now he's talking about the late great Hannibal elor in every speech because it's now it's like an Applause line it's a joke it's a gag right so he's taken something that was literally a demonstration of a demented thought process and he's making it into a gag a recurrent gag that's what he's doing it's how he covers look if if he was just on The Apprentice still like you'd have to admire it the problem is that he's running for the the most powerful position certainly in this country maybe in the world depending deping on your perspective and really does the notion of service is like it's just it's it's so through the Looking Glass like it's it's so through the Looking Glass that there's nothing service there's nothing service oriented about this man um nor has there ever been and the idea that he is going to would again I mean look the you know from you know from your clinical work when someone is tormented by uh someone with narcissistic personality disorder and and my feeling is our country was tormented by a person with Nar narcissistic personality disorder and yes were you know this constant traumatizing and people looking at the news and death scrolling all doom scrolling forgive me and um and one of the things that I found so fascin so fascinating was when the Access Hollywood tape came out I'm sorry if I'm going to I don't I don't mean to digress either I I apologize I don't want to be accused of Po by my own uh rard but when you start talking about the late great fictional characters we'll we'll we'll have to have to bring the hook and take you off air there such a thing is there's such a thing is healthy digressions don't you think okay well um but when the access hwood tape came out the person that took the brunt of that was uh Billy Bush he was the one that was that took the brunt of it now I'm not defending him at all but I was like he didn't say the things the person that said it just it was it it was really a very um frankly is a disorienting moment yeah he's so Shameless about his moral bankruptcy that he can just basically be Shameless now about his cognitive deterioration it's it's like a his shamelessness is a kind of superpower uh in this perverse way well well put that's exactly right Harry do you have any more questions for Dr malles I I don't but it's so great to have you on I really I like to I'm very glad you came on I was really glad to get you um seriously because that that article was so important uh I really wanted to have someone to represent the work that you did in that article so I'm really grateful that you came well thank you for having me on both of you um I appreciate the work that both of you do I hope that you are well and um you know hopefully good things in the future for all for everyone absolutely take care thanks for coming byebye well Harry I guess we've gotten to the shrink WP portion of our show and I think this time you wanted to do something a little different yes but John you've got to ask asked me the the important questions ah oh I forgot to ask there's only one question I even like there's four questions there's only one question I just said one question yeah just one question what did we learn what did we learn this week there we go well we're gonna do something different uh this week with shrink WP because there was a clip from the convention that I wanted to play because I thought it didn't just explain what's happening or the importance of psychological Health It Dem demonstrated it we live in a time of such confusion and ranker with a culture that puts a premium on things that don't last money Fame status likes we chase the approval of strangers on our phones we build all manner of walls and fences around ourselves and then we wonder why we feel so alone we don't trust each other as much because we don't take the time to know each other and in that space between us politicians and algorithms teach us to caricature each other and troll each other and fear each other but here's the good news Chicago all across America in big cities and small towns away from all the noise the ties that bind us together are still there we still coach little league and look out for our elderly neighbors we still feed the hungry in churches and mosques and synagogues and temples we share the same Pride when our Olympic athletes compete for the gold because because the vast majority of us do not want to live in a country that's bitter and [Applause] divided I I'm so moved by Obama and you know he and Michelle both gave extraordinary speeches and I noticed that the the women commentators on television were blown away by her and and understandably she's one of the great orders of her time um but Obama has always held a special place for me I remember when he was a Senator and he used to have a podcast where every Wednesday afternoon he would turn on the recorder and just talk about what he did that week this is before people were following him and I I think his ability to speak to our emotional and psychological experience and he's right What's happen with social media is there is a way in which we are more alone more isolated you know there's all this kind of friendship we have with people online that's a kind of shallow intimacy right and he's speaking right and he's speaking directly to it and he's describing that there is underlying our loneliness the distance between us there's still the connection there's still the community connection between people and I've been arguing at the end of this show for the past month that what kamla Harris and Tim Waltz are doing is offering a different kind of psychological engagement with the audience that that that easily easily um puts down what Trump is offering for Trump he I he gets the audience to identify with his anger and his ridiculing people and feeling Superior to people that's why Trump they people who love Trump love him and and and he he says I'll take care of things I'm strong I'll be fine but he does it with aggression and when he was running against Biden who was looking weak because of his age not because of his cognitive problems but because of his age Trump's rage and anger was winning yeah now what KLA and Tim are doing and which Obama explained and demonstrated So Not only was was Obama talking about the distance he was closing the Distance by naming it um he always moves me when he speak when he speak when he speaks and and Obama there were great speeches he gave in his life and this was the book end to the one in 2004 when he said we're not blue States and red States we're the United States and so I I felt like it was important for me to uh to close the show with that moment of his and for all of you to really keep track of the way that this Democratic campaign is reaching people because they're going to reach it with psychological health and you know what psychological health is it's an openness to all of your feelings not just aggressive feelings but compassion vulnerability love happiness if you have those range of feelings available to you people like John and I who are professionals would consider you to be psychologically healthy and we're going to see that when over the other side no I think that's beautiful Harry and I think you're right and I think in some ways like in this whole show and this whole movement we've used our Authority as mental health professionals to say look this guy Trump is really really really sick and let me explain the reasons why but we also then have the authority to define the opposite side of the coin which is what Obama is describing is really really really healthy and let us explain the reasons why um you know our guest said that we've all been in an abusive relationship with Donald Trump we've been in a sick sick relationship with a sick sick sadistic gaslighting narcissist and we're we're we we we need to go to The Battered voters shelter and escape this man and learn to live in a healthy object relationship again uh and so what I think you're saying is health is contagious it's it's it's it's attractive you people if you show them the contrast between sickness and health more people are going to want to choose health health wins every time it just does so so Harry I really appreciate you're helping us to really see this idealistic uh Vision this aspirational Vision that we can all identify with and and really it helps us to go higher and you know Harry you are the kind of person that's one of the things I like about you you really you go high you go high Harry but you know when you go high I just feel like I have to go [Laughter] low so what I got of this week was a little less lofty what I got of this week is our scop is working our sop is working and just keep hitting him and hitting them and hitting him you know he was a football coach hit him again hit him again harder harder coach walls would agree with me it's moments like these that that that make me feel like I'm channeling Dan Rowan audience who know about it but John it's it's always a pleasure being you bet you're bippy so it's pleas a pleasure being part of a two-man team I must say folks thank you for joining us we had such a blast we hope to see you next week our show drops every Friday tell your friends it's called shrinking Trump