NFL Cut Day Reaction: UDFAs that made teams and notable cuts + 2024 NFL Draft Big Board Analysis

this is with the first pick the CBS Sports NFL draft podcast this is episode 76. I'm Ryan Wilson that's Rick Spielman and today we'll talk about NFL cutdown day and all the surprises that came out of it the undrafted free agents that made the initial final 53-man roster the rookies that appear to be set for big roles this regular season either situational players or finding themselves much higher on the game day depth chart that maybe we suspected even a month ago also I'll get Rick's reaction to my top 50 Big Board you can find that right now on cbssports.com I'm guessing he has some notes all right we'll get to all that but first Rick got a little surprise for you how many days are left till the 2024. wait till you see this I showed I showed demo this yesterday this is what I did all day yesterday that is awesome finally there it is so if you're listening to the audio version you got to go over to YouTube to see this but it's the official with the first pick bespoke 2024 NFL draft countdown clock Bobby spoke I mean I made it with some stuff I found laying around the old uh house here but the good news is 238 days away from the NFL draft so there you go Rick amazing CBS spares no expense this is how they used to keep time during the like the Hoosiers basketball days in the 50s you had to flip the flip the time clock and the scoreboard so we got that so that's fun so yeah 238 make a note come back every uh twice every week and you'll find out exactly how many days until the actual draft by the way if you missed it Tuesday show Rick and I recap the standout performances from the final week of the NFL preseason talked up our guy USC quarterback Kayla Williams a Notre Dame quarterback Sam Hartman and their debuts and now you can find all that stuff in the old podcast feed and next week we'll be reacting to a whole slew of college games excuse me I'm excited Saturday Joe Milton and UVA like that Tennessee and the balls yeah that's pretty great to see him but it's uh that's that's not great competition but at least the first time you get an opportunity to see him out there as a full-time guy and it's his team let's see how he reacts yeah Lord incredibly disrespectful to UVA jeez you act like they they went to Ireland and played Notre Dame all right what about this one Saturday night Drake May goes to Columbia South Carolina to face Spencer Rattler that'll be a big one I'm excited to watch that one Saturday night for sure all right and then on Sunday got some Sunday college football which is sort of crazy LSU Florida State so that's going to be a huge game uh similar style quarterbacks so that's something to watch out for and we'll talk about some of the um those players who make the top 50 list need the quarterback did but certainly some some defensive players did and then the next day 24 hours after that Monday night Monday night college football which is something Dabo and the old Clemson Tigers go down to Durham North Carolina to face my guy Riley Leonard oh God I know this is a little tease but we got to talk about him and how high you have him up I had a real tough time struggling on who was out of place and uh he was like one of the top candidates but I went with someone else so I'm anxious to see the response that you have after that against Clemson who has a very good defense again this year uh how he plays against Clemson yeah I'm a little worried I'll be honest with you because I remember uh Daniel Jones struggled a little bit against Clemson but it was Daniel Jones versus The World Riley Leonard I think the offensive Line's a little better than it was back in Daniel Jones's day but it's going to be a huge ask but hey if he comes out of there and holds his own that's a step in the right direction now if he throws forward interceptions then I don't want to talk about rather than anything guesses what's your definition of what's hold your own um what's your definition of holding your own against Clemson you're the one that's all over the bandwagon so if he so if it's like 55 completion percentage three touchdowns an interception and he runs for yeah let's say he runs for 40 yards did you declare that holding your own yeah you got low standards listen we'll see we'll see you talked me out of some guys last year my guy Michael Wilson and uh I'm not gonna let you do it this year I will not be bullied all right finally if you like what we do here basically Rick give me the business take a second hit the old thumbs up on the YouTubes at NFL on CBS And subscribe and leave a five star review on Apple podcast where we get your podcast help us spread the word all right Rick first things first we are talking some of these undrafted free agents let's go with the good news first some of these undrafted free agents to make the roster the initial cut down roster anyway because why don't you tell us quickly how could it be the case that a rookie or surprise player makes a roster and then 24 hours later he's waived around the practice squad yeah a lot of times it's a lot of gamemanship going on that you may carry a guy just because uh you may be afraid that someone may claim them if you put him out on the initial list so you may carry them for a day or two wait till everybody gets their rosters in a practice squad set and then make a roster move uh the other scenario is they have probably made it uh and they've cut a vested veteran because at best are veteran contract becomes guaranteed after week one so they may carry this rookie and then put that vested veteran on the practice squad and then maybe flip them after week one but there's a lot of ups and downs we talked about you know the claiming order and how everybody's going through and we saw guys get claimed I think Chicago claimed three guys as I was trying to comb through the list and the teams at the top of the claiming order which is the same as the original draft order from last year's draft you don't trade those no you try to you take I'm sorry like the Bears traded down to nine that doesn't go with them no no no no no no no no what goes It goes back to the original list yeah claiming order not what you did during the draft so um so Chicago has what the second overall pick or the first they would have the number one claiming horse so they did claim three guys and that is really if you have are that high in the claiming order then that's an opportunity to even help your ball Club more and take advantage of it we've seen we talked about it on some of these uh guys that made trades last week and right before the 53-man cut down those are usually guys lowering a claiming order that may not have an opportunity if that guy becomes available to get him or be awarded him so uh that's why you see some of those uh late round picks being swapped around or traded so they can still help add to their depth and to the needs that they have before they get into the season yeah in fact it's funny you mentioned that um Houston as I would imagine really high on the on the claiming order but they traded for the Steelers guard Kendall green uh the other day before the cut down gay and I was reading about that because we talked last at the end of last podcast about Kenyan green struggling last year's first round pick he had a knee and a shoulder so that's part of the concern I don't know if he's on IR but he's not going to be playing for a while looks like so they were thinking ahead the front office and coaching staff there all right we got to have a plan because right now I think they even moved on from Michael Dieter who we talked about stepping in so there's so many moving parts you've talked about this before this is the most hectic time of year yeah and it's like the last time you can really make any type of even though it's bottom end of roster guys or death guys it's the last time before the season starts that you can make any significant movement uh well wait a second the trade deadline is usually around October 31st rarely you're going to trade there's not a lot of Trades going on with the McCaffrey one but it's not like baseball or like basketball or any of these you know fantasy football type trades yeah this is you know it's hard for a guy to come in learn a new system you know Christian McCaffrey's the exception to the rule uh but it's also hard to take in a salary if you don't have the cap room to do it right and the team trade-in if it's a significant player they have to have enough cap room to absorb all the acceleration into their cap so guaranteed monies uh signing bonuses whatever if that's prorated out over the next two or three years in a trade that player that all gets accelerated into this year so if you do trade player it may cost you another player just because you have to stay in uh underneath the cap yeah no those are good points all right some of the undrafted free agents to make the initial roster I haven't seen any changes as we record this on Thursday morning but let's start at the top Andrew Carter uh the second we saw in the Senior Bowl he looked like he needed to get stronger in his defense he was at a military academy where he wasn't working out at Top Flight facilities uh as part of the football program he had other responsibilities that were part of his day job if you will uh I watched every one of his pass rush snaps for the Vikings this preseason he looked lucky he's gotten stronger he looked like he was uh a little twitchier than I remember and they paid him off the double check but I think they paid him 300 390 000 to sign as an undirected free agent which seems extreme yeah well that's because everybody this guy last year at this time we were talking about potentially being a first second round pick um so for whatever reason and maybe all the things that you talked about the military commitment to make sure that was cleaned up the ability to go to off-season uh training centers and he stayed right at army because of his other obligations uh so didn't have a great Senior Bowl when we were down there and watched him he just kind of Blended in but when a team gives that much significant guarantees in the contract and that's not signing bonus that's guaranteed base salary or what's referred to as paragraph five that you're probably all in on making sure that he makes the 53-man roster because he has a lot of upside and I think as he gets stronger and he develops he has all the length the athleticism that you're looking for to be a pretty significant pass rusher and I thought it was a great job by Minnesota one that they must have really liked him and really liked his upside so that's why they made that type of commitment and that type of commitment uh probably showed that they expected him to make the 53. yeah Andrew I keep calling Andrew Andre Carter I don't call him Andrew Carter he's an Andrew Carter Andre Carter the second out of army long we talked to him at the Senior Bowl excuse me the combine incredibly quiet but that just may be by virtue the fact that he spent four years at Military Academy and probably listening more than talking but yeah he he looked uh he was getting after it I liked his motor he was high energy up and down the field you think people think that I spend a lot of time at the military academy because on this podcast I do a lot of listening and not a lot you're very militaristic in your uh like you need a routine in that sense you're very do you ever consider the military uh I did get some offers from the academies coming up you didn't want to do that no I I uh I was promised a uh opportunity to play quarterback in Southern Illinois back in the day when yeah division one and playing in the Missouri Valley and they switched me to linebacker anyway with every other college quarterback yeah so I ran Scout team for a year and then after that uh moved to linebacker that's a that's an old trick because I remember even at William Mary which is still uh FCS but when I was there uh every linebacker I knew was a high school quarterback everyone's a high school quarterback you bring him in you move them around because they're all good athletes yeah yeah I I appreciate the compliment that you consider me a fine athlete you're a good athlete I know you're 40 time so look I'm looking through some of these undrafted free agent bonuses and they're guys they get nothing and then there you know there's I think Tyson beigent who we'll talk about in a second at 2 500 bucks how do you determine that well well you got to understand that signing bonus each team's only allotted a certain amount of signing bonus to sign their college free agents so I don't know what it is now but let's say it's ninety thousand dollars or a hundred thousand dollars so you signed 20 some guys after the draft signing bonus wise you only have a hundred thousand dollars to give how you get around that as guaranteeing their base contracts uh okay look at the total amount of guarantees it may say twenty five hundred dollar signing bonus but you have to look at how much of the paragraph five or the base salary was guaranteed gotcha and by the way I just double checked I was uh up by a factor of 10. Tyson Beijing got twenty five thousand dollars so didn't mean to take all that money out of his pocket but it is interesting to see the variation because 340 is officially what Andre Carter got 340 000 and which is a good chunk of change uh another guy got a chunk of change cam Jones who I'd like to come out of Indiana that he was undrafted I thought he had a chance to get drafted uh what did Ivan Pace get Ivan Pace got 236 thousand dollars Minnesota went big on the guarantees on these rookie because and when you're looking at your draft board and you have draftable grades on these guys those are the guys that you want to pay because technically it's like okay we got bonus draft picks right that's what you have to look at it as if they're on a draft board and they happen to be a college for agent then let's go aggressively get them if we think they're going to make our football team in the worst case scenario uh uh if they make practice squad basically you just pay them you know a fully guaranteed practice squad contract now is if you wave them and they get claimed then you lost that you lost that and they can double dip is that right because they're already paid double dip because a lot of times people will put in what they called um language in a contract where you you can't double dip it so basically that player would go to that team and that team would assume that contract oh okay it's called offset right so Ivan Pace Andre Carter the second both undrafted both given big money contracts by the Vikings both made the final 53 and we talked about this throughout the draft process it's not like the Vikings are any other team we're having conversations on draft night about okay should we take Andre Carter or player X who we end up taking in the fourth round it's that this is how our board is stacked and uh Andre Carter and Ivan Pace are still there after the draft is over we want these guys because we know they fit so on and so forth and when you're looking at your draft board and let's say there is like five guys down there and maybe like you're in a sixth or seventh round why didn't you know you may ask yourself why not take one of these guys then and I don't know why they did or didn't do that but if there is not a lot of depth left at that position let's say so you take a corner and seventh round because there's a lot more linebackers in that area and maybe only one corner that you have on your uh draft board your front board then you draft that corner knowing that you're probably going to get one of those five linebackers as a college free agent right and at points during the preseason the the broadcast was talking about how Ivan pace is wearing the green dot so he was doing the communication communicating with the sidelines which tells you how far he came along right now he's listed second on the depth chart behind Jordan Hicks but I would imagine he'll get some playing time Andre Carter is listed uh third behind denil and Pat Jones the second Pat Jones is out of pit yep yeah um so and he you know he's again he's on the practice squad so he's not gonna no he's on the roster he won't be he won't be active but he may not be active on Game Day right by the way it's Andre Carter if I say Andrew just ignore I don't know why I said that I have to figure who Andrew Carter is yeah you know Linda Carter is you know Lynn Carter yeah look at you I bet Devo didn't know Linda Carter that's an old school Wonder Woman all right speaking of Debo his guy made it and this guy probably outplayed Keeley Ringo in Philadelphia who was drafted Eli Ricks was undrafted and the snaps I saw he looked like he had something to prove he looked like a different player um which is sort of weird because if you're not I don't know what he whether he was all in or not on Nick Saban but sometimes Washington play you get the sense that maybe he was here he was here and there but I thought he had a really good look at his history right at LSU he transferred to Alabama for one year uh he had that off-field incident uh during the summer uh did not start originally at Alabama played a couple games later down the stretch played pretty good especially the Mississippi State game yeah he played really good in that game um biggest question on him was the speed but he has the length and the athleticism but I think he missed most of the year before he transferred to Alabama down at LSU yeah you have to go back two years or three years ago to see uh the Eli Ricks and he felt a lot of these kids and I'm just putting this in an umbrella some of these kids I guess I would say because of the nil deals and everything like that sometimes may feel entitled in general then all of a sudden they get reality smacked in the face that they weren't even drafted that they were a college free agent so all sudden you get that edge back and you get the uh the player that you maybe saw two three years ago but then you asked yourself does a leopard truly change his spot so let's say it ends up you know playing and ends up becoming a good Corner um do you pay that guy or will he get fat cat syndrome or the entitlements fat cat or entitlement are they different in fact I think Debo fits into that category uh I'm trying to look up my computer syndrome oh here we go I got it fine I think he unofficially ran a 4-6 Eli Ricks did but I wonder what I want to ask you want to make sure I had the numbers because he didn't play four six I thought he played faster than that yeah four five five okay whatever he didn't have a great workout either when we were downtown Alabama that is 100 true but he's looked good this preseason congratulations to him I thought he looked better than Keely Ringo Keely Ringo also made the roster as a a day three pick who also had some first round Buzz 12 months ago coming out of Georgia as a cornerback and uh two other guys will hit on our favorite here around the old with the first big podcast Christian itzian uh made the team for the Buccaneers undrafted out of Rutgers his teammate Christian Braswell was drafted day three made it for the Jaguars as a defensive back um both fun players to watch and again it's just another example of a player who quote unquote slips through the cracks over draft weekend but is a good football player and just a almost a numbers game it feels like on over the draft yeah a lot of times it's you know uh just like Ivan Pace Junior right it's a size there he was a he was just a good football player we did just a good football player segments he I believe we talked about him as just being a good football player uh Christian same but when I was down there during training camp they thought legitimately that he could be there starting Nick Corner uh on week one so by the way five eight and a half 197 at the combine 442. so eight and a half is a little bit of a concern and it was what position he's not an outside corner is he a Nick or is he a safety um you know so teams would probably went back and forth on him there but Tampa Bay and I talked to Jason light down there who they just loved the kid when they got him in and loved them during OTAs and mini camp loved them during training camp and he was actually running with the ones as a nick uh during training camp down there yeah I'm looking at my notes from from Over the spring I said if he was six one 200 pounds he'd be a top 50 pick it's just a matter of uh being five eight and a half yep because he he plays he he's a he's a tear actually closer to the line scrimmage he actually plays pretty well too which is something you don't necessarily see from someone that size and and then probably the the biggest surprise for me based on what I saw on film last year in the fall and what we saw together the Senior Bowl and then I went and watched all of his snaps in the preseason uh Tyson beigent oh yeah bears undrafted again I thought he had a chance to get drafted maybe Lakes I knew that some teams liked him uh went to Shepard I think that's where he went yep division two in West Virginia yeah and Diva West Virginia Pennsylvania it's all the same it's just blatantly not true when I lived in Pittsburgh we used to say there's Pittsburgh in the west and Philadelphia in the East and everything in between West Virginia is that what I mean [Laughter] um at Ohio northeast Ohio we said Pittsburgh was a suburb of Canton Ohio oh Jesus that's two that's a bridge too far uh but in terms of like what were your impressions of Tyson Beijing after we spent four days in Mobile Alabama at the Senior Bowl well we he had a iffy Senior Bowl we didn't like really any of the quarterbacks down there yeah when we were down there none of them really popped out uh and and a lot of these guys that didn't pop out down there goes to show you end up uh making the team right tune out in Arizona hayner was there painter Karen Hall was there Hall that's in Minnesota hayner down in New Orleans so they all found a niche or a home uh but this one was the biggest surprise just because of the way he performed usually a small school guy you'd hope he'd really pop out at the Senior Bowl and I understand it's a quarterback position but you know watching him he kind of tailed off now that third preseason game when I looked at it a little bit there's a lot of good two and a half and the uh athleticism along with that size uh and now they can bring his dad as the uh maybe a Skyline reporter and arm wrestling arm wrestling champion world yeah he took your buddy Tom pellissarro on television national television and arm wrestling battle I don't know what Tom was thinking but uh yeah he's a Tyson's dad feels like he's the rock like when Rock was back in wrestling yeah yeah he's that sort of showman but anyway I mean he's the number two if you if I'd said to you in January hey hey Rick I think Tyson Beijing has a chance to be a backup next year you would have thrown me out of the stands yes I would I would but yeah give credit to Chicago for developing him over that time and him absolutely good for him man they did um just looking at the list that you took the snapshot of that I couldn't open up on my pewter dude I always kind of like to see what teams did the best in free agency and you say Minnesota got two guys but Tampa Bray had three on this this list that oh yeah I had a draftable grade on cave on Mayweather and uh the the safety out of Iowa and also uh Sean Tucker the running back at Syracuse Sean had an injury concern or medical concern I think that's part of the reason he went undrafted but I think he's obviously he's done well enough to make that team yeah and then the look like uh Rakeem Garrett the Maryland uh receiver also made the Tampa Bay roster oh yeah do I have them on here I saw his name maybe I didn't get him on here as well I think you're right I saw his name that he made it um that was a fun one uh oh there he is right there yeah he's down there Rakeem Jared because I saw that Dante demons his teammate at Maryland who struggled through injuries late in his career uh was one of the players released another wide receiver that made it that I didn't think had a chance based so nothing on his tape his tape was fine but he ran a 499 Jake Bobo out of UCLA went to Seattle yeah I watched his snaps he's a big receiver he gets open he plays mostly outside he gets open I don't know how he does it he said he they asked him about the 499 he said he's more of a four seven guy I was gonna say hey look man uh Anquan Boulder was a four six up the guy so it it varies but yeah you don't want to be a 499 guy there's the list that Rick can't stand actually accidentally cut off the name of the bottom Malik Heath I love the list I just can't open it up on my pewter well I took a screenshot for Debo just so you can see the names real quick because I had it in a spreadsheet so I and I I know some share all this information with me as well but that's fine well when I send you the spreadsheet link it's a 45 minute back and forth because you can't open it so I gotta I gotta remember how to make sure I think if I email it to you it works but um I'll forward you this in case you want it so oh and the other name that made it that I and I went back and watched his um pass rush snaps Britain Cox we saw him at the Florida pro day he had some off-field issues there was nothing physically wrong with him at the pro day during his college career it was just off field stuff and he he looks formidable yeah he's a little rough around the edges but he's a guy you can work with so I wasn't necessarily surprised that he made it but um I bet you if you looked at this list most of these guys we had draftable grades on you know yeah from uh Central Michigan you remember he was down at the Senior Bowl we liked him like some of the stuff that he did now where were you on Keaton Mitchell the running back out of ECU I like it he was Tiny But he was an explosive playback he was a poor man's H aim to me but the difference is he bounced everything to the outside hey ain't ain't afraid to run between attackers h a native run the parade between the tackles but uh Keaton popped out on tape when you watched him at East Carolina and um I don't know if you have any sort of anecdotal memory of this but it feels like uh the ramser team but also feels like the the Titans are a team in general that gamble more on non power five schools I'm saying that because they they uh signed uh Caleb Murphy or Caleb Murphy made the final 53 I should say uh he's a division two guy to Ferris State he had all sorts of sack records I believe at Ferris State and uh obviously a good football player I didn't know how quickly that would translate but they thought enough of them to to bring him along and keep him on the 53 at least for now yeah one guy if you can uh well can revisit offline I gotta know if uh uh Legends pass rush guy remember we had an argument on that you know what I had two people text me including our buddy Josh Edwards who we work with here at CBS Sports he said don't tell Rick that Jose Ramirez got cut and that was before cut down day that was a day or two before [Laughter] Rick never forgets Debo he's like an elephant on that one that's funny you brought up I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to throw Alicia under the bus but uh yeah Lee Jay's guy got cut I don't I don't know what his future whether he signed somewhere else we'll find that out but um yeah he didn't make it all right let me come back Rick you gonna tell us who your favorite Andreas free agent of all time is if you don't know I got a list but we'll talk about that right after this Friday the community here in Pittsburgh rallying around you it's my turn to return the favor [Music] new secret celebrity renovation base on CBS for Paramount Plus all right Rick did you check the pewter around Plus uh since uh I got home I watched the last uh episode of the Lioness which was very it's a very intense I think it's got some Academy Awards I I'm all in on the Lioness Academy Awards are for motion pictures but uh I'm sure there's some some Emmys in their future yeah I'm glad you liked it I'm glad you're finally able to understand that you need a password and a username to watch some of these shows and uh that we can make it happen here at CBS sports for you all right Rick enough Stalin who's your favorite undrafted free agent of all time I got a long list that I had oh sure that you had or maybe just in general well it's probably Adam thielen would be the top of the list that we've had yeah that's a good one you know but we had CJ Hamm who end up starting a fullback was an alternate to the Pro Bowl that we picked out out of a small school Augustana nice it was a running back uh and another guy uh Marcus cheryls who played the University of Minnesota that ended up being I believe one of the top or all-time leading punt returners uh for the Minnesota Vikings uh but those are the three that really kind of popped out to me just going off the top of my head but I'm sure there's a lot that I can uh probably think through uh I'll give you another Minnesota Viking he's pretty good John Randall undrafted yeah yeah I was that was before my time but I have to give credit to uh Andre Patterson the d-line coach now at the New York Giants he was in Minnesota twice with us and then before uh under Denny green and he was the one who identified uh John Randall did you work with Denny green no no I did not that's one of my favorite press conferences ever I love that press conference so much man give Jose a break all right some other names uh Kurt Warner of course he was talking shelves yeah uh my guy James Harrison Wes Welker Wes Welker we claimed him he was uh got him from San Diego and ended up when I was with the dolphins and brought him to Miami and then I believe I was thinking about this because I was like wait a second it wasn't he drafted but I think Texas Tech and I think that you traded him the Dolphins traded him to New England for a second round pick uh yeah I was gone yeah that was all right they want to bring up bad memories no I'm the one I brought him he's the uh receiver coach down there now yeah London Fletcher played for 50 years undrafted your guy Cameron awake we talked about him coming out of Canada you had some interest to him um Jason Peters Debo's guy tight end where do you go to college The Tackle yeah Texas something Texas Southern or something is that right Depot I don't know where Jason Peters went to college per not per no he went to um Arkansas Arkansas that's right and uh finally Drew Pearson what number was he uh 75. I think he was 80. wasn't he 80. I know I'm just referring back to our last I know I got the joke but I used to love watching him in the 80s and uh priest homes he was great do you remember how did he slip through the cracks I don't know I wasn't scouting back then I don't think or I might have been just the busto Scout down in the Southeast worried about my own area you were hauling your projector around you'd have time to be worried about NFL players at the moment all right fair enough Warren Moon Antonio Gates Tony Romo oh wait Tony wasn't drafted Tony Romo was uh Eastern Illinois yeah who who uh who's the best quarterback come out of Eastern Illinois that you played against Sean Payton that's a good story we had to talk about that story more that you that was the best quarterback he faced right yeah very good quarterback I think he still holds some passing records at uh Eastern Illinois that is crazy the Panthers oh they're the Panthers gotcha yeah he's taller in person than he looks on television probably because he's standing around a bunch of tall guys when you see him on television all right by the way Brady Quinn thought I was six feet one Rick maybe you and him should get together on estimating people coming up on the stage yeah we could do the miles Murphy show uh that made my day so I was happy to hear that all right let's talk about some guys who got cut who had tough Tuesday afternoons and evenings and some that are actually sort of curious I want to start with my guy another guy so we talked about tasting Tyson Beijing at the Senior Bowl another guy we absolutely love there who just changed a lot of opinions not just among us but among NFL teams South Carolina quarterback cornerback Darius Rush yeah he was uh we clay or crowned him Hall of Fame of the Senior Bowl player and most uh Valuable Player of the Senior Bowl down in practices what he showed but that goes back to show you that the Senior Bowl and the combine that is just part of the process but what we saw at the Senior Bowl we always didn't see on tape at South Carolina and just a couple of times where he got run by with double moves and things like that on tapes that I watched all sudden you know he shows up at a Senior Bowl so that probably elevated him up draft boards but that's just a pretty good example of when all the hype train starts coming out or coming off the combine and the pro days you gotta what the one gold and one thing we always did was we always set our draft board first before we've got all that other stuff coming in because we wanted to set it up just as what we saw on tape and then all the ancillary uh things that came in after that psychological testing medical then we would adjust accordingly but you have to put them on your draft board where you see their value is as a football player yep six one and a half 196 at the combine ran a 436 and then you put all that together with the he put on one of the best 1v1 performances I've ever seen a cornerback put on at the Senior Bowl and these drills against wide receivers and great person great special teamer but it you know um Chris Ballard the the Colts GM who drafted him in the fifth round talked about it it just became a numbers game and one of those numbers was Jalen Jones the cornerback out of Texas A M who I thought would get drafted higher was a seventh round pick came along faster than they thought and they decided to keep him yeah Rush didn't last very long on the way I was going to say I don't know if they thought he was going to make his way through waivers yeah the Chiefs got them so the Chiefs have in terms of physical body types Josh Williams out of Fayetteville State who's long generally Sneed who's long Jalen Watson who's long and they're all Josh was a third round pick I think Lu Jerry's may have been a day two pick as well it was a fourth fifth round pick because we were uh we were really interested oh okay so then Jalen was a seventh round pick Jalen Watson and then of course they're gonna have Darius rush to add to that mix so I I guess they understood Chris Ballard did that he was going to be hanging around right and you just have to feel comfortable with your team right those are the things that the tough decisions that you have to make how sick are we going to feel if someone claims this guy yeah especially a guy you drafted have you ever had that feeling and it blew up in your face uh I'd have to go back and remember but there are times that I've been in situations where the coaches wanted to keep a vet over a uh younger player player that we drafted and uh we finally worked through the issues where we kept the younger player because we knew that the vet didn't have to go through waiver claims this time of year so you always had the ability to sign them back at some point and now with the new practice squad roles I think you can have up to five out of the 16. five of those guys could be vested bets So when you say you work through it who you ultimately make the decision right or do you go even go to the owner to talk he doesn't care the owners talk about these things so no it's it's a it's a group decision and we you have to go you know we hammer it out and there's some I guess the best way to put it adult conversations in the room and as a general manager just in you always have to look at now but also the future where coaches are all are always for the most part looking at I don't care about next year I may not be here yeah this year yeah that's the that's kind of the uh mentality when you're in the front office is you have to kind of keep your vision on the uh future as well and a young guy may not be as good as that veteran or may not know the system as well as that veteran but five six weeks from now uh you know we had a really tough uh I think the one that I can recall was KJ Osborne yeah he had struggled but uh you know we were going back and forth between a vested bet and keeping AJ and AJ we cap which was the right decision because he ends up being a pretty good third receiver from Minnesota so what happens if I don't know if this is KJ's case or not but if a player a young player rookie undrafted free agent whatever has practices pretty well in general but maybe struggles in the preseason games yeah yeah it's a whole Global picture it's not just in a preseason game that's part of it but what he's done in the OTAs what he's done in mini camp what you thought of him coming out how he's done in the practices and if you had combined practices with another team how he did there and then you have to just like we project what these college kids are going to be in the NFL once they're on your roster and a lot of times these rookies you have to project where they're going to be you know six weeks from now a year from now you know remember we talked about different categories where we put them in a specific category this guy will be a starter but it may take him three years to get there or this guy's a starter day one so not rounds but we try to put him in those specific categories all right um one of my guys got got cut and our buddy Pete Brisco couldn't wait to text me my top quarterback in last year's draft class was mcarrell mackrell ended up going in the third round he made the initial 53-man roster but then Frank Reich said we had an opportunity to sign some players that could help us more immediately and he was talking specifically about Calvin Throckmorton who plays along the offensive line which met Matt Corral was caught up in a numbers game now he's currently as we record this still available it looks like he may end up going back to Carolina's practice squad but this is just not a good series of events for Matt Corral he was hurt all last year with a foot injuries he did not have a good preseason and he's behind Andy Dalton on the depth chart who's obviously behind Bryce young right and it's a new regime that came in as well approaching staff so they didn't draft him so a lot of times you'll see some of these players that may not fit the scheme as well especially when a new coaching staff comes in uh and they Implement new schemes so then some of these guys that may be good in one scheme may not be as good in another and I don't know why Matt Corral struggled if it was with a system if it was with the language if it was with the overall learning process um but if they bring it back on practice squad then that they do think that he has something to him to continue to work with let me ask you about that last thing that you said because I do wonder sometimes when we hear coaches and general managers say that we would love to have them back but is it the case that well this is the lesser of a few evils because just in the example of macarel he knows the system a little better than if you bring in random quarterback who maybe has a little more potential um but would have to get up to speed so on and so forth yeah you you want it most of the time these guys go back to their original team um that either you know to if they get released they go back to the practice squad every once while you see guys move on but for the most part especially the young guys will stay there because they already know you know learn the system you know it's like recruiting all over again so when you bring guys in and I talk to them it's like you have to re-recruit them on why you're making this move and why what you see for them uh in the future uh on the roster and where they need to continue to develop and this is why it's these are the best reasons why you need to stay here so a lot of those conversations during the cut down may be a lot more recruiting than you know just hey we're waving you and want to bring you back on practice squad because other teams have also evaluated these guys so they may be trying to recruit them on the back end as well well you might need to call your your former employee Kevin stefanski and give him a recruiting pep talk because cage York wanted nothing to do with the Browns after they cut them uh they wanted to bring them back to the practice squad he instead opted to go to Tennessee I get it just a competitive nature of someone saying they don't want you and then trying to bring you back and you want to move on have you had experiences with that and is that uncommon no uh that can well especially at that position because he was a villain number one in Cleveland uh yeah you know because it because of the position and that's one of the positions where you get everybody can see whether you're make it or miss it so and a lot of times if he had his struggles in Cleveland and had his struggles this preseason that maybe it's best for a new environment and to move on you know I always go back to Daniel Carlson who we drafted in the fifth round yeah who struggled that never happened to him became one of the best but not the all-time greatest kicker ever in the NFL I could say I was the least right not it's not under roster but I was I was at least it wasn't right at the time we cut him but it turns out I was okay or we were okay I don't want to poor salt Moon that wasn't the year that Blair missed the short kick in the playoffs is it no we drafted him the replace Blair oh gotcha okay so the next year um are you of the opinion and I go back and forth on this should you never draft a kicker upon her it depends you know okay all right because I feel like sometimes like cage work coming out coming out of LSU was a really good kicker it just feels like sometimes you can get The Yips and it's hard to recover from it right and sometimes I knew it and it's not physical to me it's like a golfer it's mental 100 and sometimes the environment and the pressure gets so great that you uh end up uh succeeding elsewhere uh when the expectations aren't as high as the original place you were drafted at yeah that's actually my theory for why I think Derek Carr's gonna be good this year but he's not a kicker he's a quarterback obviously all right um speaking of sort of weird things that are going on Debo noted this because he talked about it or Papi and and bmac talked about it on all things covered Deepa produced so you still have two punters on the practice squad Bradley Mann and and Presley the roster on the roster sorry yeah on the roster on the 53 which is the weirdest thing ever uh Divas Eagles have zero punters right now and you talked about gangstership earlier sort of early on in the cut down day process are you trading opponent for anything other than a seventh round pick and what's the matter if you do trade like right now when you're in the front office you'll take a nickel rather than not getting anything at all okay so they may be currently trying to trade him I highly doubt they'll be two punters on the roster uh you know here by next week when uh before or maybe even before everybody uh takes the break I think it starts tomorrow where they have the bye week where all the players are out of the building a lot of the coaches staff and everybody know that they got out of the building yeah well The Players it's a mandatory uh mandatory bye week for them Friday Saturday Sunday except you know Kansas City Detroit because they play on Thursday so um but and then a lot of the coaches will take some time off as well just uh to regroup and then uh get back at it go through their normal week of prep but uh yeah though there's still a lot of roster juggling going on and I bet you eventually if they can't trade them they both don't worry Philly will have a putter before week one kick off against whoever the heck they're playing no one pays attention to what's clearly playing except Debo who do they play Debo in the opener they are going to spoil Tom Brady's homecoming to New England in week one wait what they are up in New England yeah Tom Brady they're honoring Tom Brady gonna return uh to New England outside of that that game a couple years ago with the bucks um but yeah as long as it's not Aaron sipos the punter that partially cost us the Super Bowl I am happy they have Jalen Hurst putt someone crashes in there's his ACL he's out I'm gonna mute your mic all right what are you doing what are your favorite players ever you're coming up with these crazy hypotheticals well no I just like Debo would go through I just was thinking what would he will be like if that ever happened well Daniel actually paid a lot of money to go to the Super Bowl so I think he's pretty up to speed on what he means to have your hopes and dreams crushed in person you didn't cry did you Debo no it was more of just like uh state of disbelief like I didn't speak for a couple days like the first time your girlfriend broke up with you in high school like the first time he said all right listen way worse than that money worse there's a man with his priorities straight Rick by the way speaking of uh New England and quarterbacks oh Bill Belichick was doing some Bill belichicki and things where he cut Bailey's happy former fourth round pick and then cut Molly Cunningham who had played some quarterback was working a lot at wide receiver another Senior Bowl quarterback by the way that we saw there in Mobile in January so I don't know they're both back on the practice squad now but I think there's only one backup uh there's only Matt Jones the only quarterback on the roster but the math there is that you can call up the practice squad guys for up to four weeks is that right yeah yeah I believe that's the role uh but I don't be surprised if uh Zappy's not back on the roster too why would you cut them I unless they were trying to carry some guys through uh and that is a well that's a Bill Belichick move but that is a major risk if I were playing New England and I had the flexibility uh to claim a guy and can you imagine if their opener and you claim Billy zappy and kept in mind your roster and get all the secrets and I love by the way I love that you call them Billy zappy that's the best he looks like a Billy's epic Bailey's happy so I'm gonna look real quick so let's see let's let's do this right here so they obviously play Debo's Eagles in week one that feels like something Holly Roseman might do huh no no well because of uh the mariote and they kept uh the other Tanner McGee as you like to call him yeah all right so uh they play Green Bay that's preseason so they play oh they play Miami week too that's a situation if you're Miami you're like um they got more who they spend a lot of money on uh and they still got uh Skyler I believe I don't believe they cut Skyler Thompson no I don't think it did either who's more could you say the Phenom that was with the Jets last year or white I'm sorry all right Mike White they have Mike White yep Mike White's a number two as we currently look at it okay all right well that would have been a little interesting because it is incredibly dangerous it's not like you're talking about Darius rush for example you want to sneak in uh your cornerback five or whatever this is legit quarterback two started three or four games last year you know the media and the fans were clamoring for bayley to be the full-time starter but Max that's Mac's job that's like not that I'm a gambler but if you have a 17 and you go ahead and hit anyway right then you pull up a three that's exactly what it feels like all right we're gonna take a quick break and come back we're gonna talk about my top 50 and Rick's going to tell you five of his favorite picks from that top 50 right after this let me get this straight your dad stole 10 million dollars from the Russian mob is that right sounds insane what are we gonna do look for the rest of the money I think the only way out of this is to leave town you're a copy all of you this not our life 10 billion problems [Music] oh another show for Rick to watch Average Joe Average Joe I have to look at that that looks like a good one by the way this top 50 is not average Rick I will say that I'll give you an above average grade all right so no surprise your favorite pick of my top 50 Caleb Williams that's the only for sure one that you had let me ask you this does it feel like completely different players but just in terms of as we sit here in almost September Caleb Williams being a foregone conclusion feels like Trevor Lawrence being a foregone conclusion coming to Clemson yeah and I don't think that's changing I don't I don't know what would have to happen for that to change no um but it it uh yeah he'd have to you know I don't wish any good will but if something happened where he got significant he returned to school for example that would be one way yeah that's not happening so yeah very hard for him not to follow that number one spot and by the way Debo if you're watching on YouTube this is the my top 50 on cbsports.com I actually said it sounds silly when you say that loud but Caleb Williams is the next past where homes comparison is going to be a thing and it's not that much of a stretch that's a question mark no well if you want to be honest with yourself he is way better than Patrick Mahomes when he came out whoa clip it Depot Patrick Mahomes was not the number one overall pick by a lot of people no one thought him as a number one overall pick when he came out of Texas stack right so he's more uh he he's further along in his game now than Patrick was coming at Texas Tech yes yeah but similar physical traits play making ability everything that we've talked about on him all right number two on my list is Marvin Harrison Jr and he was number two on my way too early mock draft that came out the day after the 2023 draft um would you have number two on your board or would you rather have a quarterback like Drake well I think if you're just going based off of ability right now not like need of another team or whatever this is just ranking them as football players I I totally agree with this that he is a number two or one B if you want to say that yeah you're you're under no circumstances seeing Marvin Harrison go first overall no let me look at I have the Super Bowl odds draft order which is a little different these are the chances that your team wins a Super Bowl I only know this because I have to do a mock draft in a couple days the first one that I'm sure we'll hit on so heads up Depot my mock draft my first mock draft of the 2024 season comes out September 4th um like the Cults for example they're they're have very low odds to win the Super Bowl if they have the first overall pick you're going to try to trade it but if you can't you're taking Margaret Harris yeah you're not taking another course right okay but it's gonna a lot has to happen for Marvin Harrison to be the first wide receiver taken since 1996 when Keyshawn Johnson went first to brawl all right the top five if you're if you're listening is olufashanu the office of tackle out of Penn State number four straight made the quarterback out of North Carolina number five is Joe all to tackle out of Notre Dame we've talked about all these guys on the summer scouting series which is a little podcast feed um Rick is Ola for Shawna too high for you at three no I agree with everybody the only thing I would have probably put alt down uh a notch let me ask you about that because our buddy Pete prisco called me yesterday to go through the list with me he actually didn't hate it he had a few comments no surprise but he is of the opinion that alt should be lower too what are you guys seeing that I'm not seeing about Joe all because I love his game yeah he's a good four I just don't know if he has left tackle athletic ability that he may be better on the right side but he is a good football player I just don't know if he is an elite left tackle athlete okay fair enough I tell you what he looked like Jonathan Ogden against Navy so if he plays Navy every week he's gonna be the first overall pick all right um let's do six through ten Tebow then we'll hit Rick's too high and too low rankings so number six and this may be too high for you you didn't put it on the list but Brock Bower's tied in is that too rich for you no oh good he's a top ten and then I could see uh you went right to Alabama I mean oh yeah I did go to Alabama so seven Alabama seven is Jared burst he had to rush out of Florida State he'll get an opportunity on uh Sunday night he can tell us you to play and then three in a row JC Latham to tackle Dallas Turner The Edge rusher Kool-Aid mckinstry the cornerback out of Alabama all those guys what do you feel about six through ten yeah I like it I think those are the next group I wouldn't argue with that so you know what it's funny you love Kool-Aid a lot I like Kool-Aid but I don't know if I love them yet I I like the other kid I don't want to keep talking about him because he's so young out of Clemson I think it's going to be close yeah we'll see I haven't done the young kid out of Clemson yet because what is he like a red shirt freshman he's 19. I don't like talking to these kids because they're so young you're you're uh may not be able to get into Clemson if we ever go to their pro day I know you're right you're moving around with their uh one of their Corners yeah stay in school kids all right let's take a look quick I already told you your favorite your favorite here was uh Kayla Williams too high and Devo goes right to it at number 12. Patrick Paul out of Houston we talked about Josh Jones who just got traded he was a third round pick out of Houston a few years ago from Arizona uh he went over to instantly the Texans Patrick Paul's a better player coming out I think because of the need at offensive tackle he has a chance to get drafted in the first round just again are you doing this based on you're saying he's the 12th best player based off what you've seen on last year's tape well when you put it like that no it's okay that's what I do I'm literally looking at your list uh going according to what Debo's saying because people's not saying this I'm saying people sets the rules oh The Rundown yeah right that's right those are Debo's rundowns so here's Paul is the 12th best player in the country next year uh coming into this season no no no off of 22. you're right but here's here's sort of what I'm doing I'm sort of projecting as well that's how you get some of these names on here that you have issues with so I think Patrick Hall has a chance to end up being a top 15 pick so right right now no like uh two Milo is better abuka is better even Jersey Newton could be better but I think Patrick Paul has a chance to get drafted higher if he has a good season I am basing it off the guys I saw in 2022 and Patrick Paul was not the 12th best player in the country or going into the draft you may end up there in 23 but he has to prove it in order to get that high of a ranking if you're a team that needs an offensive lineman and you're picking top 15 are you taking them no not not today okay okay what's tomorrow no I would not all right fair enough uh amik abuka is at 14 on my list wide receiver at Ohio State you take him top 15. yes and what about Jersey Newton who I like a little bit more than you do the defensive lineman at Illinois uh I think he should be in the 20s okay all right we're not far off that's fine I will note my guy Barry Carter the linebacker to Clemson's on this list I'll get you can stay right there debug it to that in a second and I mentioned that because your guy the other Clemson linebacker whose Name Escapes me whose dad played what's his name Trotter yeah Jeremiah tried a junior sorry is not on my top 50. how do you feel about that I could see that oh okay football player but I could see him not just because he's a better football player than athlete but uh I so I can I'm not going to argue totally with that okay I was expecting more pushback um all right and if you're watching on YouTube you can see we're at picks 33-39 and before I get to the pick that you think is too low I want to ask you about JJ McCarthy because I went and watched him and I struggled to put him on this list as top 50. I know some teams like him I know he's athletic but I just had some questions and again I'm going on the Rick Rule now based on what I saw last year I don't know if he's a top 50 pick but I think he has a chance to be yes he does because of his athleticism and his play-making ability uh but he is pretty thinly built or lean uh needs to add some bulk and strength and needs to become more accurate as a passer although it makes them off schedule throws but uh you know if you want to lump him with your guy that you have way too high uh Leonard Riley from duke you can want those two together that's I don't know about that he's going to prove you wrong uh Riley is against Clemson so tune in Monday night for that all right another guy you think that I have way too low I'm gonna get my French accent ready here at number 36 Maison Smith yeah Mason Smith that's a five minute LSU listen in my defense you talk about watching tape he had four snaps in 2022 before he tore his ACL unfortunately he didn't uh uh right and then he's going to be suspending the first game of this year for some stupid violation that's not even it doesn't make sense but that's another conversation so I don't have a lot to go on yeah I did some 21 so I cheated a little bit and he's just too big and too athletic um that I had a good enough feel to say that he should be in the first round or she should be higher than that Mason Smith is uh it's amazing we're going to start calling him Mason I can't wait till he comes up to the combine stage I'm gonna tell him it's your idea all right so you can move Fran say what that's do you speak French oh look at that Depot multilingual I'm just saying something all right I want to ask you quickly I have six quarterbacks on this list one two three four five where's the sixth one um Drake May Kayla Williams we talk about Riley Leonard you're not as high as I am Quinn viewers at 32. tell you about that I I would say that I'm okay with that but okay I'm excited to see uh See if he moves up this year and uh the Alabama game will be very interesting we talked about JJ McCarthy 39 two spots for him did you have an issue with bow and exit 37 because I think Bo Nicks has a chance to be good yeah I would have him in the third round I wouldn't have him top 50 right now yep okay fair enough and by the way I do have Jeremiah Trotter on this list I double he's at 41. I got ahead of myself there um how do you feel about me having Arizona State Titan Jalen Conyers on this list the guy that we talked about during summer Academy we're giving credit to Pete for one he finally got right in the preseason yeah I do like him because of what I've seen at the end of the season and when he started throwing in the ball um and uh I think with his size he's got unique size he has some athleticism he is a true traditional wide tight end that has not only blocking ability but receiving ability as well so he's a little bit of a rare rare bird yeah um just because of the size and the ability to do both any other quarterback you would have liked to see on here that did Michael pennick's Junior no and we're this system don't be interested to see if your boy Milton creeps up on this list as you as well Joe Milton yeah he needs to I would like to see him play well that would be fun the only guy at number 50 that I really liked a little higher was the uh we'll see him against LSU is uh jaheem Bell oh yeah he's fun the uh transfer from South Carolina who's a tremendous athlete who for some reasons that remain a mystery could not get on the field of South Carolina no but I think he'll be on the field at Florida I agree with that all right that's it if you like what we do here take a quick sec to give us a thumbs up on YouTube and if you love what we do here take a step further and subscribe give us a five star review where we get your podcast that's a wrap on episode 76 238 days Rick to the draft just checked the board thanks as always to my guy Rick thanks to Debo for producing and thanks to all of you who watch listen to comment we'll be back on win next week we'll say Thursday or back Tuesday Tuesday next Tuesday to recap all these college football games have a good weekend everybody