No time for old ways - with Bobby Miller

[Music] here's what's coming today on The Woodworking Network podcast this is to say drinking out of a fire hydrant is 100 kill okay this is this is like dying and going to heaven I'm like the kid in the candy store like this is amazing [Music] welcome to this episode of The Woodworking Network podcast join us as we explore the business of woodworking big and small and what it takes to succeed I'm will Samson today's episode is sponsored by fdmc magazine and was recorded live at the international woodworking fair in Atlanta my guest is Bobby Miller a wood shop teacher at Rapids High School in Minnesota and the host of a number of social media channels under the umbrella of Mr Miller's wood shop we will be talking about Trends in woodworking education and some of the innovative ways he uses to connect with students but first I want to talk about no time for old ways probably the biggest barrier to productive change is inertia it's the knee-jerk response to any sort of proposed change we don't do it that way notice that such a response has nothing nothing to do with arguing against the change on its merits it carries the strong assumption that the status quo is inherently Superior to any form of change improvements don't have much of a chance in that world but the real world is crying out for change let's take just one area the need for skilled labor in The Woodworking industry I don't think I have ever encountered a business that said they have plenty of help and an endless supply of well-trained potential employees so clearly the status quo is not working but part of the deadly status quo argument is also a stubborn aversion to admitting that we ourselves might be part of the problem it's always someone else's fault or at least someone else's responsibility to fix it at the very least there's an assumption that the problem is too big for any one individual or business to solve so why try anyway no wonder we have made so little progress in the big wide world isn't magically providing the help you need maybe you should take at least some small steps yourself start with how you are looking for employees are you just putting a help wanted sign on the front door advertising in the same Outlets you always use with little result maybe you've dabbled in some online tools like Craigslist indeed or LinkedIn still to little effect it's time to try something completely different have you personally reached out to high school and Community College woodworking programs in your area maybe you would be better off hiring someone with no woodworking experience have you talked to high school counselors in your area have you put the word out in your own Social Circles that you are looking for help maybe your neighbor's kids are candidates or perhaps one of your friends friends knows someone responsible and trainable looking for work the potential list of networking ideas is endless but none of them are likely what you've always done most shops don't even want to invest in their own in-house training program they want to hire pre-trained individuals and they give up on filling a slot if they can't find them they often argue that training is a wasted investment because the trained worker will go elsewhere let's just call it like it is too many of us are too lazy to try to make a difference complaining is usually easier than acting but it rarely brings any better results think about it what can you do today to make a difference no matter how small progress comes sometimes slowly one step at a time but that's still a step in the right direction before we get to our interview with Bobby Miller let's pause for a word from our sponsor fdmc magazine is your vital source of information to improve your woodworking business whether it's keeping you apprised to the latest advances in manufacturing helping you solve your wood technology problems with Jing Wert or inspiring you with case histories about successful businesses and best practices fdmc magazine is there to be the sharpest business tool in your shop learn more And subscribe for free at woodworking network.com fdmc now let's talk with Bobby Miller we are live here at the international woodworking fair in Atlanta uh doing a live podcast and I have as my guest today Bobby Miller who is an educator from Minnesota Welcome to The Woodworking network podcast Bobby yes thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here that's great and and I was talking to you before we came on here and and you are involved in a lot of different interesting projects but I I kind of want to go back to the beginning how did you get involved in woodworking to start with well my dad was a woodworker at first and so he built the cabinets in our house and all kinds of other little stuff from my brother and I when we were kids and so that's just kind of my Foundation um as I kind of matured and went through high school I had an amazing shop teacher and an amazing woodworking program um after that I decided I want to be a teacher and I started own history I thought I'd be a social studies teacher and during the Summers I'm working summer jobs and Roofing and painting and deck building and maintenance and I had my own company for a little while it was called 3M have you heard of it they Le maintenance and mowing you haven heard of I think there's another dream yeah there might be so I did that and um once I graduated from the u ofm u the University of Minnesota that is I had a history degree and I was still thinking teaching and so I went into their teacher Pro tried to go into their teacher program that wasn't accepted and so I I kept on with the painting company I was at started my own business and I could substitute teach and so I got lots of professional education doing uh substitute teaching and a couple wood teachers that I would sub for took me under their wing and pointed to the program at St CLA state to get certified and so really my wood workking career started when I became a woodworking teacher s ideal right no well but they on the other hand they they say that the best way to learn something is to be forced to teach it yeah so that was uh yeah I guess that's what you could say so that was seven years ago I sent Advance quite a bit I've taken jobs and cabinet shops local to my house um I'm into this stuff big big time I've done lots of epoxy River tables our uh program has got lots of CNC machines I've been Now with uh two different districts and uh three different schools I should say four different schools and so I've been in a lot of wood shops professionally and in the educational world and I just I dig this stuff so now the level you're talking for the shops that you're teaching in this High School um yes so predominantly I'm coming up on my 10th year of teaching and so all but one have been in high school that was uh that was the co year and we were largely remote the entire time and it was a good eye openening experience into a middle school wood shop I can't match the energy how do you teach how do you teach woodworking remotely it doesn't uh it doesn't work very well and funny enough that came at the time when my daughter was born and I say it wasn't good for any of the kids except one my jet I was home I actually did a lot of cool projects in my garage but then it got to the point where it wasn't really fun for the kids to watch me have the fun and so I I stopped doing some of the videos I tried to put more cat involved and that's hard too when you've got just a a Chromebook as far as what the kids are have access to so it's Tinker cat it's um watching some of the demonstrations on some of the larger softwares just it wasn't a good thing it wasn't a good time for The Woodworking education industry if you ask me yeah so so it sounds like you've got a diversified program and I know that you're also doing stuff on YouTube and you have your own podcast yeah it's nothing like this okay it's just me and my iPhone and uncut and unedited and authentic okay we'll call it authentic authentic there you go that's good that's good how many kids do you roughly have a year in your program a couple hundred so I run through a couple hundred kids about every trimester I'll have four classes that are about 24 25 kids so I guess that's about 300 a year I miss both I'm not a math teacher though so don't really against me okay that's all right we're here at the international woodworking fair in Atlanta which uh for those of you in the audience that have never been there it's a huge show uh with it takes up the entire Georgia World Congress Center three huge Halls there's more than a thousand exhibitors um I think there's something like 20,000 attendees um this is I know your first time here yeah what's your and and you came here working with a a machinery company that you're helping helping them sell what's your first impression about this show this is to say drinking out a a fire hydrant is 100 kill okay this is this is like dying and going to heaven I'm like the kid in the candy store like this is amazing and I I'm so grateful that safety speed um is is sponsoring me to be here um helping them sell I'm helping with their marketing and um I trained some of their staff at the woodwork e seminar over the summer and we've been doing a ton of stuff and I just I think the world of safety speed they're actually donating an Sr 5u panel Saw aan rouer s router combination machine to Rapids High School and that is just way above and beyond what I've ever expected typically over the Summers I'm working Cabinet Shop jobs because that's my skill set and I while I enjoy that this has been a lot more fruitful for my career at this stage of my career where I'm not so much in the learner seat anymore I've done commercial residential Big Time custom Cabinet jobs and I've also made the cabinets for the breakr at at work so I mean it's I've had I've had the span out experience and now that you know I I got to make up those paychecks in the summer there I'm not paid right so I got to do something and so Brian donu the president of safety speed is connected with Kun rampus High School via our apprenticeship program and he was just instrumental in thinking this through of how this could work and what it would bring to my program and I'm doing as best I can to bring as much business and whatnot to safety speed well that's great because you know the you probably heard that so many folks in this industry say they can't fire they can't find skilled employees and you know we we have talked a lot on this podcast and in our Publications about having a better partnership between the industry and education and it seems to be difficult to get that done done what what do you think is the way that we can do that to make that work I'm encouraged after this fair I thought it was all going to have to be me before I came here but luckily ran down is on the National Wood board and so I I like I said I've got my own podcast Mr Miller's wood shop all my stuff is Mr Miller's wood shop too by the way after look at cor because because of the kids right that's they call you Mr Miller wow yeah I kind of thought like how can I write this out to where it can be mine and they can be kind of like geared towards the educational side so and I'm the only one doing it um I'm the only one who's got a Mr M wood shop so it was easy to find the Gmail account and all that I'm not trying to have lots of extra work for myself but um to get back to your question like I was so encouraged when I went to the National Woods Wars conference one of the educational pieces here at iwf and I was actually stewing the entire time because as the presenter was going Tom was his name I am just like jumping in my seat because on one of my first podcasts I talk about my mission and vision and the presentation that Tom gave for that Thomas Thomas a lot who is the the chairman of the board for the national Woods Court and he's also an educator at Styles University yeah so while he was presenting I am just thinking like this is an echo of everything I said in my first podcast and he had data and he was far more articulated than I was trying to like say like there's a there's a divide here there's a wall here between industry and education for instance a teacher that I rever had not heard of iwf he is on The Cutting Edge of Education he's in the biggest District of in Minnesota and he had not heard of iws like how how does that happen and um just all the other this is the biggest biggest Woodworking Show in the Western Hemisphere there's not many bigger than this in the world no so yeah that's great and and you know it's been frustrating for those us who have been in the industry for uh you know decades that we keep talking about the same problem and the same Challenge and it's it's tough to get industry and education together working uh to solve basically the same problem and and you know it's it's a longstanding divide yeah it's it's really sad too because the Educators now don't know the opportunity that's out there and a lot of times we're not setting up with the skill sets to be successful so I was shocked at the amount of robotic arms that were here and we've got a robotic arm um educational piece in our school where we've we have a USIC and program our robotic arms but I didn't not anticipate seeing those here so that's just one thing that just fled me being oh they're all over the place here in fact I was U watching yesterday uh company called lch uh from Sweden was demonstrating a uh robot uh that was assembling a complete cabinet box all by itself with no glue no fasters using a uh joinery system kind of like uh what's used for uh flooring for you know laminate flooring sure and uh um it would in a minute it would put the box together and then pick up the completed box and set it aside or stack it and get on to the next one in a way that's kind of sad because that's a problem caused by the shortage of skilled labor right so I I I'm enous to see that but also kind of but I think you know I think you know people get scared about automation they say oh it's going to take jobs it doesn't really take jobs it adds opportunity you know it takes away menial jobs and repetitious jobs that most people really don't want to do anyway and then it gives more room for people doing the high value High skill jobs so that you can have more in both yeah I completely agree we've got five cnc's at Co Rapids High School and that's got to be a record I think across the country we've even got a handheld CNC that shaper the shaper origin we got one last year it's it's a little bit over my head at this point right now we've done some cute little bow ties and things like that but boy it is it is remarkable what's out there and so to keep up with this this this uh moving Target of where the industry is at I think we got to be coming to these shows as Educators well I think too it's because that illustrates the the real divide between industry and education is that they don't know enough about each other and Educators in particular there is a long history it's not everybody but there is a long history of trying to force kids to get into a track to a 4-year University yeah and and also there is a longstanding misperception of The Woodworking industry as being somehow dirty and dangerous and and terrible and low Tech and it's none of the above uh if it's done right and and you walk in this show and it's the highest of high-tech all over this show and I don't think that the education Community by and large gets that yeah I I'm I'm right there with you and it's it's tempting too as an educator to set up your program to have your plans that you do and not touch it again and that's what I want to avoid and safety speed has empowered me to do this so over the summer I I create woodworking plans for my students and I'll give them away to teachers or anybody else who wants them for free I'm never going to ask if for any I'm going to try to make $4.99 off of my wood rooking plans like some of these folks and would I would I think my methods are you unique is and unconventional is that after safety training we go through about 2 weeks of safety where I'm hand overhand with the kids on the taable stop bring that anxiety level down and once they have proven they can do it they test it out and I've got some parent um um liability waivers then I give them a woodworking plant similar to this he's showing me a a a coffee table plant that's cool yes and so I there's a cutting list like a normal wooding plan but then I've written this as about as simple as you can make it for high school kids because the kind of kids that enter my shop they're not reading at a college level so if you give them the wood magazine plan that's great they're not going to read it I was given the wood magazine plan about 5 years ago and I didn't read it okay I've looked at the picture I figured it out I'm naturally kind of a problem solver and I find a lot of my students are that way too and so what I've broken it down for kids is that that exact step that they're on they can read through the bullet points I mean they're written about us about a sixth grade writing level which is probably where I'm at but then I've got a QR code right here that links to a YouTube video of me great doing that exact step now here's the controversial part I've stopped doing live demonstrations in lie of this and I've found that is far more efficient and effective if you imagine your typical demonstration where you're watching a professional he's got to get things set up he's going to put in all the screws and so I've got um like right here is my copy table plans it's my beginner project in the series that safety speed sponsored me to to drum up for them using their equipment here's a step where they're actually standing up their table one of the most exciting things like when your kid starts to walk you know they standing up this video is less than 5 minutes and I could not do that demonstration live for you and everybody here in under 20 minutes right okay so I fast forward it I've clipped it tail to tail I don't have to talk to those guys over there that have it in the metime I don't say oh hey I forgot the bid I'll go get this no disruptions I say perfect some of them I have some bloopers and outakes and you know um that kind of come in the video too but that can kind of be a fun so can the general public access these videos are they on YouTube yes yep it's all under Mr Miller's wood shop Mr Miller's wood shop on YouTube yep yeah feel free to check that out and uh I'm I'm I'm a rookie at this as far as the online world and trying to create a presence but I I'm I feel like I'm a decent woodworker and so i' I've started editing these videos so they are short so they are to this point and I find that this works in my class because now that kid that is ambitious that wants to work ahead doesn't have to wait for me wait for the rest of the class to get through what they need to get through so when he's ready or she's ready watches the video a lot of times I tell them watch it at home and then when you get here just right away and in the videos I'll tell them where the screws are where the jigs are where the patters are in the room so it's it is kind of specific to my shop but I'm not opposed to anyone else using this method and I've talked to a couple other teachers that do this method they're just kind of hush hush about it I almost lost my job doing this because they looked at us oh you can't be doing this way you got to give live demos and it's not like I'm kicked up in my office drinking coffee I'm fixing equipment that's broken I'm helping kids that are scared I'm dealing with behavior issues like everybody pay closer attention to to every all of your students this method I've cloned myself 30 times for all the kids in the classroom each time they want to go to the next step they can't now I'll have some stop signs and things like that before they drip and rip it on the CNC but at that point I can I know sometimes it's cheesy like I want them to watch the videos so I won't ask them like okay what is your um what is your datem level I'll ask them what color was my shirt in the video what song was playing in the background and a lot of times I'll mention that in the video too like remember I'm wearing a red sh right now go Cardinals red cardinal red right right right and so they kind of pick up like okay so they don't have to go back unnecessarily a test I'm not I'm I'm trying to be as little of a gatekeeper as possible once they once they're through safety I'm big on safety I'm 10 finger Club member for life they do not ever take their safety glasses off in my shop I and I tell this story too about how I was shot with a nail gun in the shoulder taking attendance so I don't care if you're sitting down doing your math homework you're going to wear your safety lapes in my shop because if I can get shot in the shoulder with nail gun taking attendance something like that could happen to you too enough now tell me do you have you know we're talking about trying to to get kids to get to a level that they can be uh productive employees in Industry do you have any success stories to share of kids that have gone through your program and have actually made a career of this or or started a career or just even got a job yep I I've got I so I got three stories I can to tell you so a classmate of mine is actually the number two at Lakeside cabinets our cabinet shop up by where we um where I teach up in Minnesota and he's the number two there and he's only a couple years older than me so he's not that old if you ask me and he's he's got a wife and kids he's got a comfortable life and we go on tour their shop a couple times um every couple of years and it's it's phenomenal to see what's going on they got a lot of the equipment that you see here and so when I can bring kids to their shop see a classmate of mine makes it enjoyable for me and he can give back to the program as well and the mees if by shutting down production for a couple hours while we pass through and then I've got uh a couple of kids um that have started their own business and they've revealed to me that they didn't need all these other programs and all these other required classes they're class that made the most difference was mine and I'm not trying to brag or anything but I go through safety bu materials how to build and I also talk a little bit about how to Market yourself once they we're done I'm also a graphic design teacher too and so I've put up this cheesy little thing where I want you to Drew draw yourself up an ad a magazine oh that's a great idea for your end table for your entertainment center for your rocking chair whatever you built okay make a make a magazine cover for it and some kids really do a good job sometime it's just a picture their stuff no but it gets them thinking in that direction too that's that's great to introduce those levels because you know most the I tell people that most the people that go into woodworking go into it because they like to make stuff not because they intended to make a lot of money in a business and they need to learn those business skills uh to be successful and and survive last uh last story I was sh one of my former students um he went through my whole program and he was like where do I go next and I gave him several employers looking but his folks really wanted him to go College route and so they compromised with St Paul College they have a cabinet making program there and we actually toured there a couple years ago after he graduated and it was great I was at we were in there shop he wasn't actually in the class at the time sadly so I wasn't able to connect but I found his locker where um you all his stuff was stored and his tools and whatnot and I tested it and it was open and so I just trashed the thing and then I wrote it's good I I I wrote something about like it's uh great to see you being successful because the teacher had nothing but good things to say about him and I thought this could to be funny he's trashed my job for four years now I'm going to come back and just group up and I just moved a few things it wasn't like I totally ruined anything or sto anything I just it just knew that kill was there oh yeah he knew he knew that Miller was there that's for sure yeah yeah yeah that's great great well I I wish you a a huge amount of luck in this and and anything that we can do to get you involved in the National Wood sport or any of these other things are helpy with industry contacts it's great I love the the Innovative way you're using video and that sort of thing there's a lot of great things that you're doing that I think are techniques that can be shared with the rest of the industry and uh more power to you Bobby yes thank you I appreciate it and if if any body is interested in following up I'm not making any money on this but all my Instagram Twitter LinkedIn Facebook YouTube podcast on Apple and Spotify it's all Mr Miller's wood shop Mr Miller's wood shop that's great I I wrote it down here so it's Mr r m i l l e r w o d s h o p great you can't spell like me well that's great when these TI days I'm going have to get up to your shop and visit I'd love that that would be great thanks a lot Bobby thank you that's it for today if you're looking for more of our podcasts you can find all of them at woodworking network.com SLP podcasts and in popular podcast channels be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode thanks again to today's sponsor fdmc magazine if you have a comment or topic you'd like us to explore contact me at will. Samson woodworking network.com thanks for listening [Music]