Trump's fake claim targeting immigrants and Taylor Swift's endorsement for Harris | Planet America

Welcome to Planet America’s Fireside Chat from John Barron and Chas Licciardello hello there welcome to Planet America's fireside chat I'm John Baron and I'm Chaz well just as soon as this week's presidential debate between carala Harris and Donald Trump ended the debate over just how bad it was for Donald Harris-Trump debate fallout. Trump insists he won, but the polls say otherwise. Trump began yes Trump snapped a couple times but that's not what the regular voter cares about KLA Harris had a really good night Donald Trump had a really bad night and her upward trajectory is going to continue kamla Harris dodging like crazy on a radical record spewing out canned rehearsed lines and Polished talking points she got up there and she put him in his place she baited him and then she spanked him vice president Harris did what she came to do she really destroyed the former president on that stage tonight but then Trump did something that candidates do not do if they had a good night he went into the media spin room after the debate where campaigns usually send their Sagat their campaign spokespeople to spin for the candidate not the actual candidate but he went in there to try and convince reporters that he hadn't really come off second best this was my best debate I thought it was very good I thought she was very weak on foreign policy she was very weak in the border and uh I'm very happy with camea Harris meanwhile was kind of spiking the football immediately challenging Trump to another debate so on social media Trump then said well the very fact that they're asking for another debate proves that I won this one she was beaten badly last night every poll has a is winning in one case 92 to8 so why would I do a rematch and there were some polls going around that did have Trump winning overwhelmingly almost 90% according to conservative news Outlet Newsmax who ran a Twitter poll which in polling terms tells us absolutely nothing about who won the debate but something about who watches Newsmax I.E Trump supporters meanwhile actual polls with a scientific sample including one from a republican firm had Harris winning by an average margin of 23 points that is a reflection of what actually happened campaigning earlier today in North Carolina kamela Harris said that she and Trump owe it to the American people to have another debate this election and what is at stake could not be more important Donald Trump intends to end the Affordable Care Act and as Stacy mentioned you heard what he said in the debate he he has no plan to replace it he said he said concepts of a plan and ketos to you chair lard delas on Wednesday nights Planet America you pick that as the sound bite yeah well as for whether there's going to be another debate Trump says no there will be no third debate now whether in fact it's as definitive as that seems is very much an open question because well Trump has a habit of saying he's not going to do something but if he needs to do it I.E prove that he didn't really lose and he did really lose then he might be lured back into this yeah look if I recall there wasn't going to be a debate on ABC until there's one on Fox and then Trump Chang his mind right he can change his mind very easily just like that and I think it will happen probably because both of them probably needed to happen Trump needs to try and do better and Harris still needs to complete the task of introducing herself to the American people in this very truncated campaign I think it well we'll see I think it depends on the polline I think if Harris gets a gets a one or two point bounce out of this debate then Trump is going to be behind he will be feeling desperate and then he'll do anything he'll go anywhere but if if it's 50/50 Trump's going to want to turn up on Fox yeah and Harris will say no because she always controls what she does and then there won't be a debate unless Trump concedes he's not going to ConEd as he's desperate which is why I say she needs the bounce I think for the debate to happen yeah and and look it's very very early days there only a handful of national polls that have come out since uh the years I'm going to pull you up on that what's there's a lot more than a handful really there were like five poles in one second on the spin floor the other night to see what Trump had to say why would you look at her the polls are indicating that we got 90% 60% 72% 71% and 89% where are you getting these numbers from good great question he wasn't even pretending that were real polls just threw out just random numbers by the way I can tell you where he's getting those polls from but you can't say that word on television just before you move on I I I should say that your saying that was a bad sign him to have to spin for himself especially that badly yeah yeah it was a bad sign but what was an even worse sign was when Laura Luma who was a member of his team tweeted out after the debate that she thought KLA Harris had cheated by using these Nova H1 audio earrings to sort of cheat her away to to Victory and you don't start tweeting that people cheated unless you think you lost right that's another a great sign from someone in his team I should also say by the way in case you're wondering if she did cheat a few things first of all those earrings don't appear to exist in the real world right uh but the very review site that she quoted there said it's unclear if anyone actually received a set of Nova H1 earrings at this point it seems like the company was simply a Kickstarter scam also when you look closely they don't look that similar anymore yeah me this is a bit of a callback to I think it was the 2004 debate between John car and George W bush where some Democrats alleged that George Bush was only half decent in that debate because he had he had a little bulge in the back of his jacket which looked like a mic reer or earpiece receiver and they thought that he was wired for sound as well I can't just say for those who who don't work in television uh we use these these earpieces if if someone was was was talking to me in the mver debate I would step on this thing because they drive you crazy you can only hear a couple of words of the time it would be impossible to conduct a debate being told what everything to say through an Earp yeah and and and speaking of being in someone's ear Laura Luma has been in Donald Trump's ear uh some of you may not know her she's a kind of far-right conservative pundit very active on social media she's been retweeted and retr a number of times by Donald Trump she was traveling with Trump this week including traveling on his plane when he went to September 11th commemorations in Pennsylvania and New York this week Laura Luma is uh she's a a 9/11 denialist she says it it was an inside job and she's a she's she's wacky uh and uh and as as we're about to hear she's been really kind of playing up the the the crazy on um on on Trump's side so we have this situation where Donald Trump is I we're so used to it after nine years but Donald Trump is saying black is white he lost this debate there is empirical evidence that says the overwhelming majority of people who watched it thought that he lost this debate it's a 50-50 country 63% say that Harris won 37% say that that Trump won on Fox news they said he lost a debat lindsy Graham said he lost the debate one of his biggest siop fantic supporters Lindsey Graham said he lost this debate he lost it because he wasn't prepared he tried to just sort of Riff it and Jazz it and add Li it and it didn't work and carela Harris came prepared and you know knocked them around that uh that that debate stage after a start you know you could say first 10 minutes was maybe a a wash it was a drawer Harris was a bit nervous Trump was reasonably solid but he went right off the rails including as we'll talk about you know a moment about cats and dogs but before we do um there was hot on the heels of the the debat as all Taylor Swift endorses Kamala Harris, signing off her Instagram post from a ‘Childless Cat Lady’. those positive reviews for Harrison coming in Taylor Swift was at home on social media saying that uh well I've seen enough I'm I'm endorsing CA Harris and she did sign off on her Instagram post there rather pointedly describing herself as a childless cat lady that thing has certainly been chasing JD Vance and Donald Trump around hasn't it yeah certainly has I suppose the question is does it make a difference because traditionally you'd say celebrities don't make differences I Hillary Clinton had pretty much every celebrity in the world supporting her during her her campaign and it didn't work so I mean I mean I'm kind of torn on this one and I'm interesting to know what you think because on one hand you go well any fan of Taylor Swift already knows she's a Democrat her saying vote Democrat ain't making a difference she even say vote Democrat she said vote whoever you want but I'm going to vote Democrat um I don't think that'll be news to any of her supporters but on the other hand she might remind people to register yes and that and that makes a difference especially for young voters like who are who are low propensity registering voters she might prompt them to register and then more of them might vote Yes and and there there is certainly in the month of September it's basically a Last Chance some states have same day registration but in a lot of States you you have to register well in advance in order to able to vote early voting is starting in some states in the next week or two absentee and mailin voting and so now is the time to get people to register to vote the question is yes does she then say in late October early November vote for Cara Harris does she give it another go or is it just a a small intervention uh right now where I think you know the point has been made look a lot of Taylor Swift fans are not old enough to vote so there is that and that's that's possibly true she's been around for 20 years she's been around for 20 years and also she's multigenerational you know um I don't know a lot about Taylor Swift couldn't sing a song but I do know that it's not just kids but it is their parents particularly their mothers and even their grandmothers and that you know I know of three generations of women in families that were going to see Taylor Swift so maybe not the the young Swifty but the middle-aged Swifty and the late middleaged or older Swifty they're the ones who this could convince them you know if they're thinking particularly about uh fertility management and abortion rights and so on that uh this could be something that they want to do and they and that this this could give her an extra maybe half a percent boost amongst female voters over Trump and that could be decisive in a close election so I don't rule out the possibility because she is the biggest star in the world yeah yeah look I mean I like it's hard to it's hard to be to it's hard to poo poo it because she is so big but just everything tells me that celebrities don't get don't cause people to vote but we'll see yeah well yeah and it is hard to ify but if you if you go out on the campaign Tria in the primary season every presidential candidate has the 10 celebrities they can they can get together to try and get people to events to draw crowds to get their message people are more likely to go to a rally with either Donald Trump or carela Harris if a famous celebrity is is speaking or performing for them oh yeah and in some ways Donald Trump he's combined the two he's the celebrity candidate Harris is becoming that as well Barack Obama was that but um yeah so celebrity star power does some candidates need it more than others yes probably does Harris need it possibly not if she if t turns up to a rally that will be a very big rally yeah that is for sure yeah it certainly will be without doubt the weirdest moment in this week's debate was this one while Trump was talking about illegal immigration he wo into this claim in Springfield they're eating the dogs the In the doghouse. Trump’s racist claim that Haitian immigrants are “eating the pets” comes back to bite him. people that came in they're eating the cats they're eating they're eating the pets of the people that live there and this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame the people on television say my dog was taken and used for food so maybe he said that and maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager I'm not taking this from T people television say their dog was eaten by the people that went there now being fact checked by the motor writers of the debate clearly bothered Trump who claimed that this became a three-on-one debate which was kind of his for losing even though he didn't lose but when reporters asked Trump about people's dogs being eaten by migrants after the debate he still wasn't backing down oh yeah it's true you take a look at it it's nonsense the local authori say well you could check it out check with so reporters did check with authorities many verifi viewers reached out to ask whether this is actually happening so we went to these sources to get an answer there is no evidence to support these claims Springfield City Manager Brian hex said in a recorded statement on Wednesday it is disappointing that some of the narrative surrounding our city has been skewed by misinformation circulating on social media and further Amplified by political rhetoric in the current highly charged presidential election cycle so no evidence cats and dogs are being eaten by migrants in Springfield Ohio or anywhere else also in the spin room Trump's running mate Ohio Senator JD Vance who claims that his office has been contacted by people who think their pets have been eaten by migrants the officials have said that that's not true City officials have said that's not true they that that's not actually accurate the city manager said there's no verifiable evidence a lot of residents on the ground have said that there is so JD actually said the right thing at the start there City officials say there is no evidence but then he went on to say some people say there is evidence just as of course some people say they've been probed by aliens and some people have been served at the house of pancakes by an 89-year-old Elvis Presley it is quite astonishing to me CH that a potential President and Vice President of the United States uh spreading this rumor this Urban myth uh that is also obviously clearly racist and potentially damaging I can't believe Chas debunks the “eating the dogs and cats” rumour. I'm doing this let's look at these claims let's do it okay so first of all uh I should explain how this happened there have been uh a for some time there have been uh some reports of Hans in Springfield eating the geese in the local Park area for instance this fellow here in a in a local community meeting had this to say they're in the park grabbing up Ducks by their neck and cutting their head off and walking off with them and and eating them like there was also a police report registered a little while back well before this controversy where some one made similar claims I see a group of patient people there was about four of them they all had geese in their hand they got away how many geese did they have uh they each had one okay and there there been one or two other similar kinds of situations where someone had a report not provable but just someone said this at some point in time over the last few weeks okay and how they could tell somebody's nationality just cuz they was standing there with an leg goose is another question you do make a fair point but uh then this P then this photo started to get sent around this photo here allegedly a Haitian carrying a dead goose except for it's not a Haitian carrying a dead goose in the town it's someone from Columbus Ohio a completely different place who is not Haitian carrying a dead goose from about five I think four months ago 3 months ago it was on Reddit and it's got nothing to do with this story whatsoever and the person who put that picture up now severely regrets putting that picture up cuz he's taking part unintentionally in This Racist Witch Hunt right right okay but the but the first two clips I played at the very least they were before this controversy they appear to be real reports whether they're true or not there's another thing all together but they are actual people doing these actual reports okay so that's the geese yes but then it morphed a little bit and there was a viral video about a week ago of a lady who was arrested for eating a cat this lady smile for me my go like this did you eat that cat did you eat it no why'd you kill it okay so that lady was arrested for animal cruelty for killing and eating a cat that lady is not from Springfield right that L's from Canton which is a completely different place in Ohio 175 miles away she's not Haitian mhm she's just a random person who ate a cat and that became a viral story exactly the same time as this Facebook post became a viral story as well the critical part of this this story which may or may not be true ER it involves them saying that one day their neighbor came home from work as soon as she stepped out of her car looked towards a neighbor's house where Haitians live and saw her cat hanging from a branch like you do a deer for but in and they were carving it up to eat now this is a completely unverified post okay there is no reason to believe that post at all and the fact that the police have said that there have been zero reports from anyone Haitian native born whatever anyone stealing harming or eating pets at all zero reports suggest that that's probably not true that Facebook report cuz why would they report to Facebook but not the police good question yeah so I'm a bit sus about that a bit but those two viral viral bits got together people conflated them and and then they started saying ah look the Haitians are out there killing people's cats and then before you knew Elon Musk got involved he he escal he elevated it Amplified it and then all before you know it there AI memes of Donald Trump saving cats and geese all over Twitter okay so that's how we got to where we are now I trust any of that like I mean maybe the maybe the geese is true we don't know cats and dogs no evidence whatsoever right but there is a real story in all this which we should actually focus on more than the cats and the geese and that is that Springfield was a dying city until 2020 it had about 60,000 people in at that point in time and then a Japanese company moved in a Japanese auto parts company and they had lots and lots of jobs and they had workers and and a number of Haitian people came to get those jobs there were 8,000 jobs that required new workers and over time it wasn't just that company other companies moved in the Springfield's become revitalized more and more jobs and since then 20,000 Haitians have moved in in the last four years and I need to emphasize these people they're legally there they're not illegal immigrants people are confusing this with illegal immigration these people have got temporary protection visas yes they have work visas they are allowed to be there to work apparently they're very good workers in all the reports we've seen on this story that there's always an employer going they're great workers like they so they're taking part in the community they're paying their taxes they're doing what they meant to do no problems but any community that starts at 60,000 has 20,000 new people enter over four years is going to have some growing pains and that's where the New York Times comes in the New York Times wrote about this and what they said the Haitians have helped Revitalize Springfield assembling car engines at Honda running vegetable packing machines and loading boxes at distribution centers but the speed and the volume of arrivals have put pressure on housing schools and hospitals at the free medical clinic there's been a 13-fold increase in Haitian patients between 2021 and 2023 overwhelming its staff and budget at the community health center expenditures on translation services jump to an estimated $436,000 this year from $43,000 in 2020 and at the local schools nearly 350 new students registered for elementary and middle school so this is a real issue it's not a racist issue this is a real issue of how to manage a town which is growing very rapidly the city manager who's been quoted all over the media this week saying the cats and dogs thing is not a real story he was on Fox news about 3 months ago talking about this very problem it's taxing our infrastructure it's taxing Public Safety it's taxing our schools it's taxing health care and as JD Vance uh spoke on it's taxing our housing we had a housing shortage well before uh this immigration crisis that's uh impacted our community um and this has just made it a 100 times worse and so uh it's setting communities like Springfield up to fail okay so tensions are growing wasn't helped by a car accident last year that a Haitian plow into a school bus kill the kid but the fact is there is a there's a real story there but this isn't actually even the one B I want to focus on the B I want to focus on in particular is what's happened to that story because JD Vance has been pushing this for six months he is the senator for Ohio where this where this is taking place and he's been talking about the growing paines in Springfield for a while and he referred to that this week in reference to those memes this is what he said and I think it's interesting Caitlyn that the the media didn't care about the Carnage wrought by these policies until we turned it into a meme about cats and that speaks to the media's failure to care about what's going on in these communities if we have to meme about it to get the media to care we're going to keep on doing it because the media could sh should care about what's going on that's interesting read between the lines he's saying I don't care if this cat story is untrue because it's drawing attention to the story I want to be talking about and it reminded me very much of last week when Trump said something extremely controversial about school children and transgender people uh i' someone say extremely insensitive and kind of nutty he said this can you imagine you're a parent and your son leaves the house and you say Jimmy I love you so much go have a good day in school and your son comes back with a brutal operation can you can you even imagine this that that makes no sense obviously people doesn't it's conducting operations at schools just nuts uh he first made that claim last week at the M's M Liberty conference Elon Musk liked that one as well he Amplified that one as well it became a big controversy moms for Liberty were asked about that and this is what they said the founder said our kids getting surgery in school no they're not but I'm still thankful to president Trump for making the claim his remark has drawn attention to the important issue of schools facilitating children's social transitions without parental consent it grabbed your attention and we're talking about now and that makes me very happy so here's where we're at John when people want to make a claim yes that isn't getting attention they just make a different claim which is insane yep Elon Musk gets involved he amplifies it all of a sudden there's memes everywhere people are going crazy and no one cares that the second claim is garbage it gets the attention to the first claim and you're rewarded for spreading crap all over the news the news landscape this is how discourse is working in 2024 it's happening over and over again which means it's going to happen more and I'm really worried if we don't get a hold of this it's not going anywhere good no uh and you can't escape the fact that uh whether it is the the lie that children are getting gender reassignment surgery when they go into school and come back a different gender or that Haitian immigrants in a small town in Ohio are eating people's cats and dogs uh there is no doubt that that is transphobic and racist and that just because there is an exaggeration a lie that is being pedal by a wouldbe President and Vice President of the United States you can't turn around and justify that by saying oh well they're not eating cats but there is a housing shortage so now you're talking about the housing shortage it's say no we're still talking about the cats and the fact that you as a presidential candidate are claim that people are eating cats it's it is really it is really a new low it is a sign of desperation from the Trump Vance campaign and and and and bear in mind you know Trump has not been known for going particularly high on the issue of of race or uh or sexuality or gender identity over the years but this is this is getting desperate and that it's being said on a debate stage and in a spin room and that uh JD Vance is complicit in all of this and that lunatics like Laura Luma who by the way has also been uh promoting this conspiracy theory in Trump's ear as well Laura Luma is probably the reason why Trump said it during the debate because she's been amplifying it on social media as well so Trump is surrounding himself with the craziest of the crazies now this isn't like 2016 or 2020 when there were grown-ups in the room when there were serious people or just mainstream conservatives and Republicans looking to further a small government agenda we've now got the fringes of the internet in one ear and the other ear of Donald Trump right now this is a very concerning time but living aside Trump how do you stop this happening because it works that's the thing the person who spread this to begin with they're not being punished they're being rewarded the story they want to promote is being promoted you you you you consistently point out the fact that this is a lie and it is a lie with a racist underpinning because at the end of the day if there are growing problems in Springfield Ohio you don't help those growing Problems by othering demonizing dehumanizing a migrant population who are just there to work because they were invited in by the government to do it uh and by suggesting these people are you know crazy Voodoo pet eating monsters that's appalling and for a president or vice president to be to be suggesting that that's that is pretty bad stuff but for more on the Fallout from this week's presidential debate and Taylor Swift's endorsement of Carmela Harris we're joined from New York New York by Democratic political strategist Julie rinsky Julie welcome to the fireside chat thanks so much for having me let Will Taylor Swift’s endorsement help Kamala Harris’ election chances? We ask Democratic political strategist Julie Roginsky. let's start with the endorsement of camel Harris by Taylor Swift Just moments after the debate this week do you think that is going to have any meaningful impact well typically I don't think celebrity endorsements matter much but this is the big exception look Taylor Swift has literally moved economies wherever he travels in the world um she has a cult-like following among uh swifties of for which I'm too old to to really be able to appreciate but uh you know she's the kind of person whose base of fans really overlaps with the Bas that KLA Harris needs to get out which are Millennial women and men but mostly women uh and and gen Z men and women and so you know this is an election that's really going to come down to turnout I don't know that there's many persuadable voters left but there are voters who may or may not be coming out to vote and to the extent that Taylor Swift can get her supporters to register to vote and then to vote for KLA Harris that could make a huge difference both in Taylor Swift's home state of Pennsylvania and around the country as well why do you think the campaign got tyor Swift to endorse Harris on debate night wasn't that just stepping on a good debate and that would be much better off with Taylor Swift and dorsing Harris closer to election day I don't think this was coordinated with Taylor Swift um I don't think the campaign the campaign has made it very clear Joe Biden when he was still in the race had made it very clear that he would love Taylor Swift's endorsement she was not worth coming it was not worth coming it was not worth coming and then Taylor Swift put it out on her own timeline so I don't think there's any coordination between what Taylor Swift was doing and what the campaign was doing and so look I don't know to which extent uh her voters care so much about when she endorsed when she did endorse which was just a few minutes after the debate was over I think something like close to 350,000 people went to the website to register to vote that she linked to in her endorsement announcement so I don't think she's stepping at anything again she's like the Beatles I think there is a a whole incredible group of people out there in this country and around the world who just hang on whatever Taylor Swift says and so if Taylor Swift told them at 3:00 in the morning to register to vote and to come out and vote for KLA Harris that's when they would have done it I I don't really think it matters in terms of timing well from swifties to chenes dick and Liz Cheney also endorsed camea Harris this week as to signs of neoconservatism are they going to change any votes in this election I think it gives permission to some of these Republicans who are maybe on the fence about voting for a Democrat to say it's okay uh it's not just Liz and Dick Cheney it's also uh Alberto Gonzalez who was the Attorney General in George Bush's campaign and a whole host of other Republicans who traditionally have never voted for a Democrat but this time around understand the threat to not just this country but to the world that Donald Trump poses and so I think from that perspective if you look at places like the collar counties of of Philadelphia which Pennsylvania as you know is a is a must-win state for either campaign and these collar counties uh which are the counties that ring Philadelphia the largest city in Pennsylvania tend to go back and forth Bucks County Northampton County I'm getting very much into the weeds here but they are very important to know about and to pay attention to on Election night because they hold the key to this election to some extent uh Erie County which is in the Northwest part of Pennsylvania uh these are counties that really go back and forth election to election and there are a lot of suburban Republic women specifically and men as well who live there who may not have thought about voting for KLA Harris before but when somebody like lizen Dick Cheney who are just DieHard Republicans who've been Republicans throughout the course of most people's lifetimes uh Dick Cheney goes all the way back on a national level to the Mixon Administration to the Ford Administration uh to the 1970s when somebody like that tells you it's okay to vote for a Democrat you know enough of those people might say okay I've never done this before but if the Chinese are doing it maybe it's okay for me to do too now one of the big questions about Harris's campaign so far has been her decision to conduct zero press conferences and very few interviews do you expect that strategy to continue all the way to election day and do you think it's reasonable for a presidential candidate to subject themselves to so little scrutiny you know I think she is doing things on her own timeline which means that she is talking to she is giving interviews she's just not giving interviews to the mainstream media that wants them but she did sit down with Tavis Miley who's a very prominent African-American uh journalist she has been speaking to Univision which is uh a big n station here in the United States that appeals to Latino voters and so she's been talking to much more kind of Niche um Outlets I would urge her actually to go and speak to local reporters uh around the country in those States those swing states where she has to win so go to Wisconsin and speak to reporters in Milwaukee go to uh Pennsylvania and speak to reporters in the Allentown media Market uh go to Georgia and speak to reporters in the Atlanta media Market go to Arizona speak to people in the Phoenix media Market I I think those are the most trusted kinds of journalists I mean poer poll shows that people may not trust National journalists but they do trust the local Hometown journalists who come into their living rooms every night and talk to them about traffic and weather and and so on and so I think if she were to have a conversation with them uh I think would really help her and I think it would be something that could potentially transcend not just this notion that she isn't speaking to reporters but also allow her to talk to an audience that maybe would be trusting more of those journalists than they would of the people on the national level who've been clamoring for these interviews so Julie this week CA Harris was judged by the polls to be the winner of a debate that close to 70 million Americans watched live and tens of millions more will'll see highlights and Clips in the days ahead no doubt is that enough therefore for her to say okay I've reached out to those undecided voters or is there more that she needs to do between now and November well she should not rest in her Laurels because debates come and debates go but by Tomorrow there's going to be some other new cycle that's going to kind of wipe this debate out of um out of people's minds look she had a lot more to gain and to lose from this debate than Trump did people know what they think about Donald Trump I truly don't think there are too many undecided voters anymore there are voters who probably have made up their minds already and they're just debating whether to vote or not vote at all but she had a lot to lose in the sense that about 30% of the electorate said before this debate they didn't know enough about her despite the fact that she's been vice president she hasn't been out in front of the cameras as much as the president has been certainly not as much as Donald Trump has been and so from that perspective I think she truly needed to equit herself well she did she passed the test she you know as you might say she kind of completed the assignment which was to introduce herself to a national audience there were about I think close to 70 million people watching so that's obviously the largest audience that she'll ever have uh cycle but I also think it's important for her to be able to continue that trajectory and so she needs to not just say okay I did a good job in this debate so therefore I'm going to go and do my own thing or or leave it to ads and paid media to take care of it she does need to get out there and speak to voters more now going to rallies is important having those rallies be covered is important but as I said I think she also should probably consider sitting down with local journalists and and talking specifically about local issues now look I don't know what the local issue is in Phoenix Arizona I'm not from there I don't live there um but those journalists do and if she can go and be as well prepared as she was for this debate and she was deeply prepared to talk about local issues that are specific to those States specific to those areas uh I think she'll clearly uh score points for herself by doing that finally paing suggested that Harris's candidacy has both increased the salience of the abortion issue and also increase the advantage that Democrats have over Trump on that particular issue then in the debate Harris really scored some points on Trump I thought with the respect to abortion so just how big an issue is abortion shaping up to be in this election could it possibly rival the economy I don't know if it's going to rival the economy but it's huge and it's huge and it transcends U political partisanship I mean I I talked earlier about those those Suburban Republican women well those women a lot of them will vote for her because of abortion rights and it's one thing to say that we're going to ban abortion something that Democrats have kind of always said Republicans were planning on doing and Republicans always ran on and then it happened and it happened thanks to Donald Trump it didn't just happen swed gen Eris it actually happened because Donald Trump put hand selected three really right-wing justices put them on the Supreme Court and they overturned roow versus Wade which was our law basically governing abortion uh access if you're a woman you understand this issue on a very visceral level and I think that's not just related to your political affiliation I think the vast majority of women in this country understand that if you get pregnant and something happens and you unable to carry that baby to term you should not have to wait until you're literally bleeding out and on the verge of sepsis and death to be able to address that issue Julie rinsky thank you for having a far side chat with us thank you so much that's a bunch of maluk now we mentioned Are immigrants really taking American jobs? Chas debunks some malarkey. some migrant based malaky just before but uh here's an extra helping there's more there's more it all started when the lest job figures came out and uh and Trump focused on one particular aspect of those job figures native born Americans we lost 1.3 million jobs while foreign born Americans were able to take take all of those jobs so foreigners coming in illegally largely illegally into our country took the jobs of native born Americans and I've been telling you that's what's going to happen because we have millions and millions of people pouring into our country many from prisons and jails and mental institutions and insane asylums traffickers human traffickers women traffickers sex traffickers which by the way way that's the kind of thing that people should be looking at cuz it's horrible now I should say he is conflating their foreign born people who are legally here from foreign born people illegally here there's about 12 million people illegally in America there's about 60 million foreign born people who are there legally citizens who've lived there for decades totally and he's conflating them right uh but those numbers I just gave you Trump is working with shall we say different numbers they will have a 100 million of these people in here with another four years a 100 million people if you think you have a nice house have a migrant enjoy your house because a migrant will take it over a migrant will take it over it will be Venezuela on steroids his rhetoric is really getting unhinged but as for the actual numbers of migrants who have come across the border over the last few years this is these are the real numbers uh the truth is that while America witnessed a record of at least 6.3 million migrant Encounters in Biden's first 3 years and the numbers have gone down since then by the way most of them were rejected immediately only 2.4 million more migrants were actually allowed in the country for adding up the whole four years there've been record numbers of deportations as well but then some of some snuck over and not been counted overall people think between 2 and 3 million migrants have been added to the population right over the last four years making Asylum claims waiting to see whether they can leave it America America long term whatever exactly point is it's not 100 million all right um uh but uh so Trump's working on uh he's wrong about his overall numbers but what about the job numbers he said at the beginning those they're actually true in the last 12 months foreign born workers jobs are up just over 2 million in the last 12 months native born jobs are down almost 400,000 in the last 12 months so he was right about that but but yeah what he's wrong about is why he's he's acting like they're just coming in taking native born workers jobs by the way if you were a n if you're an American citizen and you're there working an accountant and then someone from an an insane asylum from Venezuela comes and takes your job you can't been a very good worker fair point so what I'm showing you here is the participation rate of native born workers and the foreign born workers and what I mean by that is how what percentage of them is is actually taking part in the workforce you can see that this is by age Band This Is How They they collate those stats you can see whatever age you're talking about more foreign born workers are indeed participating in the economy under Joe Biden but have a look whatever age group more native born workers are participating in the economy as well as a percentage of the number of native born workers I know that was a bit complicated so let me average out all those age bands for you have a look here just averages the foreign born workers are participating more in the workforce than they used to under Biden and the native born workers are also participating more in the workforce under Biden what's going on what's going on is the reason the foreign born workers are taking all the jobs is because there are no native born workers to take those jobs because they're retiring without immigrants and their us-born children the prime working age population the 25 to 54s would have shrunk by more than 8 million people between 20 and 202 through Americans aren't having kids anymore well there's not as many their population is being reduced if you want more workers you need to get them from overseas in very very simple terms the American baby boom has become an American retirement SL dying boom that's what's happening it's it's just demographics it's the same thing that happened to countries like France yes and they then turn to mass immigration as well to solve that problem with a lot of the associated social problems as well we're seeing it play out and unfortun whether it's in the United States or France there are some politicians that are happy to try and divide the community along those lines for their own political benefit they are it's happening in many countries around the world the difference is there are lots of immigrants who want to go to America yeah and that works out for America their economy is growing faster than Europe because of that and if you got rid of them if you had a mass deportation tomorrow what would happen is the economy would shrink the foreign workers are contributing to the economy and any suggestion other otherwise is Mali indeed so for more on the state of the presidential race and the Fallout from this week's presidential debate we're joined once again by Ford oconnell he's a republican political strategist he's worked on campaigns including McCain Palin's White House bid in 2008 he was also a campaign surrogate for president Trump in 2020 Ford o Connell welcome back to the fireside chat hey Will the debate decide the election? We ask Florida Republican Strategist Ford O’Connell. always good to be with you guys so Ford do you think Donald Trump genuinely believes he won the debate this week or is it more just Bluster and denial effect facts because all of the scientific polls Clearly say he lost that debate do you ever heard anyone ever say they lost a debate in American politics that just doesn't exist this is political Communications 101 you're going to always say you won look when I look at this debate kamla Harris exceeded expectations because she didn't speak gibberish like she has for the past three and a half years and essentially Donald Trump missed some opportunities particularly when it came to litigating the case on inflation and illegal immigration and what do you personally think has been the takeaway message from that debate two days down the track has there been any the takeaway messages is that you know Trump missed some serious opportunities to to litigate the case on inflation and illegal immigration because essentially KLA Harris danced around all those questions obviously she won the cat and mouse games in terms of who can get under the other person's skin the fastest but at the end of the day the voters are a little still concerned about where kamla Harris stands on the issues she provided no information on inflation she Pro provided nothing on illegal immigration and she doesn't explain and a lot of undited Voters talk about this how she's evolved on a series of positions to where she is right now and for how potentially damaging do you think this is Trump spreading this baseless rumor that Haitian immigrants are eating people's cats and dogs it's not the kind of thing we typically expect from a potential president well let me let me put it this way it's talking about Charlottesville and lying about that for four and a half years very presidential from Joe Biden look I think there's a larger message here this took place in a place called Springfield Ohio home to 60,000 people and because of Biden and Harris's immigration plans essentially 20,000 Haitian migrants have shown up in a town of 60,000 okay and when you tie it into what's going on in Aurora Colorado it's actually a pretty powerful message if you really want to laugh these pet memes of Donald Trump that's millions of dollar of advertising for him so I got to say it's pretty smart at least from a uh Communications perspective for so much of Trump's Aura comes down to his ability to mentally dominate his opponents yet uh in the case of kamla Harris at the debate she seemed at the least impervious to it and a lot of people would say that she got inside Trump's head so is that damaging to his image and even to his self-confidence I don't think it's going to be damaging to either obviously if we have another debate you know that he's going to have some very different tactics look when you look at the way presidential debates affect polls there's not usually more than a one to two point shift in terms of the national polling average so let me tell you I think it's going to have a very minimal impact because to your point while Harris might have won these cat and mouse games I think the debate overall was a wash for both of them for of course you worked on the 2008 McCain Palin campaign this debate reminded me a little bit of the Town Hall between John McCain and Barack Obama where McCain could basically not even look at Barack Obama not even use his name he called him that one what do you think is going on there because Trump was a little bit like that with Harris this week this is about body language and facial expressions actually if you look at the tape closely kamla Harris actually lost that that sort of aspect of the debate because she was making some out I'd say some outrageous faces every time Trump talked Trump was basically trying to keep remain stone-faced every time she talked we saw this with both John McCain and Barack Obama what do you think would need to happen from here for a second debate to occur well I think right now we are in a negotiating where Trump is saying we're not going to have a second debate Comm team is basically saying well we'll have one in October well we were actually supposed to have one in late September that's what Joe Biden agreed to I think what's Happening Here is you're seeing a negotiation where Trump is trying to push for the same rules as before and he's also trying to push for more favorable moderators because basically the moderation on the ABC debate was the worst moderation I think in in modern presidential debate history of course it was Trump who famously said that he would debate Joe Biden anywhere any time and now it's like yeah I think that'll pretty much do me does he look weak if he doesn't change his mind and have a debate now no I think that this is exactly right if you've learned anything over the last eight years guys the bottom line is this is a negotiation tactic on Donald Trump's part to get the rules and the moderators more in his favor look I think it's a 5050 proposition but one thing's for sure we're going to have a vice presidential debate so forward assuming that there isn't another debate are there any other big moments left in this campaign or is it just a Sprint to the finish line from here I think it's a Sprint to a Finish Line but I think what happens here as long as Donald Trump is litigating the case on illegal immigration and on inflation he's very well likely to win and the question is can he actually Define cola Harris before she can you know get out of the witness protection program that the media has her in because most Americans don't know KLA Harris that's why they're debating their own strategy as well because right now like it or not Donald Trump is polling better than where he was at at this point in either 2016 or 2020 and we've seen that he tends to outperform the polls so for now CA Harris has the endorsement of Taylor Swift I wonder in your view do big celebrity endorsements like that or the support that she also has from well pretty much everyone in Hollywood with a few exceptions all the late night comedians on on free toar TV in the United States the hosts of The View a lot of these shows it's all very Pro carela Harris right now does that make a big difference do you think well I'll say there celebrity endorsements typically don't matter but Taylor Swift is nothing to sneeze at she's got 284 million Instagram followers here's what I'll say about that if you need Taylor Swift to decide who you're voting for then you probably should have your vote taken away and why I'll say this is that you know if if you're a swift man and you want to keep her tickets and merchandise affordable you should probably vote for Donald Trump not kamla Harris because if KLA Harris gets in the White House those tickets in that merchandise is going to be even more expensive finally Ford in your view is this election still just about 20,000 voters in Pennsylvania or is there still the possibility that someone could break away no I think that this is exactly to your point it's going to be a replay of 2016 and 2020 where somewhere between 40 to 70,000 you know decides who the 47th presid of the United States and I think you're absolutely right at least at this juncture whoever wins Pennsylvania at this point will be the 47th president of the United States forto Connell thank you very much indeed for having a fir side chat with us this week oh thanks guys and that is all for another fireside chat if you missed Planet America's post debate special this week Goodnight from John Barron and Chas Licciardello you'll find it now on ABC I view YouTube and Facebook and we're going to be back on Wednesday night 9:30 p.m. on abct TV and back here for another fir side chat same time next week and do not forget to pep is in all the usual pod places and by the way happy birthday Oscar happy birthday bye [Applause]