How can anyone think Josh Allen is overrated?

hello everyone and welcome to believe in bills and I am s Mayana today I have a a guest because Adam bini is off writing his bike to Toronto I think um hard to believe but that's what he's doing so I've brought in my H good buddy Matt Perino who covers the bills for New York Upstate and syracuse.com Matt welcome to uh believe in bills oh man I am honored and excited to chop it up with you my friend usually we're just making fun of each other on on press row but it be good to do it in podcast form yes many of you already know Matt because he and Ryan talbet do a great job on their on their podcast and YouTube show uh shout so um we're trying to just be like Matt and Ryan here at believe in bills with me and Adam we're just getting started so let's get right to it Matt because we don't like to mess around Adam and I we get right to the football um so let's look we've had we've had months to digest what the bills are going to do going into the 24 season and I wanted to start with you today on roster construction because that part of this equation just wrapped up this week so if you could just give me give me a few of your broad thoughts on how things shook out with building this 53 man roster you know I think first and foremost this team is valuing special teams still um as much as they ever have and we we always talk about this as we're putting together these 53 man roster projections you know Shawn McDermot Brandon Bean like being ahead of the G curve in special teams giving themselves an advantage trying to give themselves an advantage is always a play and that's what we saw when they traded for Brandon codrington it's why they kept Casey twohill as the 10 10th defensive lineman uh we spent all summer talking about Tyrell Shavers in in Rochester and I think if we would have spent a little bit more time on the fact that this team has kept five wide receivers the last two years Tyrell Shavers might have been on the outside looking in on a lot more 53 man roster projections then my other big broad thought is like all right maybe the bills are falling back a little bit around the league in terms of you know their drafting their roster construction none of their players were claimed so I I think Brandon be kind of knew um or was hoping and it played out that some of these guys they they're gonna be able to get back on their practice squad I think they've they built a pretty competitive practice squad they brought in a couple receivers that I think uh you can get excited about in the pipeline if you will uh they have h a third quarterback now and Mike White who I think some would argue is a little bit more exciting than even the the backup that they have in Mitchell trabis I think I think one of the things we often forget about is teams love their own players right Matt I mean they bring 90 to Camp they wish they could keep all 90 of them so you know everyone gets all excited about cut down day and this guy's available that guy's available the Bills should go get that guy and very rarely does that happen I think I saw somewhere I don't know the exact number somebody put it out the other day that after the cut down after the cuts were made what was it like 17 players that were on the waiver wire were claimed by by different teams I think it was some ridiculously low number out of over a thousand guys got cut on between Monday and Tuesday 17 got picked up so I think we really do go overboard when we start thinking about all that stuff and then the practice squad yeah I mean they got back probably every guy they wanted to get back on the practice squad was there one that they didn't get back Matt that you look at like oh yeah I wish they could have got me there wasn't right no and the one guy that you know you thought might be in the mix was Justin shorter he's doing a position change going to tight end to to uh get on with the Las Vegas Raiders and I think like under the radar here over the last couple days as the dust is settled Lewis seen uh the the first round safety from Minnesota a couple years ago that's a really nice developmental piece you can get him in your building for a couple of weeks teach him your system see if that might be an option because what is the one of the biggest top we've talked about all summer long are the Bills calling Mike a hide as each injury piles up are the Bills going to get on the phone with 23 I still maintain that that's a down the road very shortterm possibility we were there s like every week it was something with his neck last year I don't think he has a long window if he does decide to come back and give it one more run I think that's uh your desperate in December or maybe even January you call him up get him back into the mix a guy like Cen who played over 150 snaps in the preseason and and maybe the Minnesota Vikings didn't like what they saw maybe a a scenery change getting into a system with Shawn mcder we know what he does with defensive backs that's a really interesting condition yeah that guy was a first round pick in 2022 he blew out his leg I think he broke his leg serious compound fracture I think it was like week five of his rookie season so you really has then they changed defensive coordinators uh last year Brian Flores went to Minnesota and they sort of changed um how they play defense and I guess scene just didn't fit in but that kid was a pretty good player on a on a championship team at Georg he was Jame cook James Cook's uh teammate so you're right that's an interesting sign um you know and also down the road too man I mean dear Hamlin's gonna be in his last year of his contract they're probably not bringing him back Mike Edwards I think's a one-year deal um so you've got tayor rap and Cole Bishop you would think are your guys next year LS cen's a perfect guy to bring in if it works out as your as your third DB so I like that move too all right so we jump to this the point that everyone wants to know is this roster that they built capable of winning a fifth straight A AFC East highler you mentioned it that none of their players got picked up so you wonder about the viability of the entire roster what do you think are they good enough to win the division I want to say yes just on the basis of having the best quarterback in the division because let's it's a quarterback driven league and I think that when you get to December the Miami Dolphins have to build build themsel up enough of a lead that they won't like you know for lack of a better term piss it away in December right like they did a year ago Tua is a really fun Young quarterback when he's operating on schedule he's really good they got a bunch of fast weapons out there but that defense without Christian Wilkins that's a bigger question mark than anything I think the bills are facing on defense because Shawn mcder always finds a way to get this unit especially on the back end to being a top 10 unit in the NFL so I'm a little bit more concerned about Miami they got two Edge rushers coming off serious season ending injuries a year ago and then that secondary is getting older the Jets are to me the wild card because that defense is Super Bowl caliber right but that offense while it has some weapons I don't know if Aaron Rodgers at his age and playing barely any football over the last year and a half is ready to come back and lead the charge there's Talent around him at the skill spots but the blockers up front there's still a ton of question marks about that off offensive line I think the bills strength is their offensive line Josh Allen he has a young firstr draft pick tight end that they're trying to build this thing around and I still think the defense is going to be pretty good so I still think they're going to win the AFC East is it going to be closer than ever before definitely I think this could come down to the final week yeah just like last year I mean the bills literally stole the division from the Dolphins Deontay Hardy returns that punt and all of a sudden they're division champ so I yeah I think they're absolutely gonna go right to the wire unlike you I'm more conc concerned about the Jets I think we had this discussion on radio yesterday here in Rochester um catalana and I with dulio um and and they we asked basically the same question is this team good enough to win it and I think if you look at the Jets roster top to bottom one to 53 I think they're slightly better than the bills and that's contingent on Aaron Rodgers being at least semi Aaron roders right we don't know guy like you said he hasn't played for a year and a half I think as annoying as he is I think got one more running him to be to be problematic and I think the Jets have built a pretty good team around him they've upgraded that skill I mean Breece Hall is terrific and we all know about um Garrett Wilson they've added somebody who's I'm brain farting right now Mike Williams they've got some players their offensive line is a little bit better I'm more concerned about them than Miami but Miami with all that speed and Buffalo's secondary being in a little bit of a transition period that's going to be interesting watch too so yeah I think the bills can win it I think they're a 10 or 11 win team but it's going to be it's going to be a very very tight Division and you can't rule out the fact that New England might steal a game here or there from from somebody that's gonna be competing for the top of the division all right so we brought up um we brought up Mike Wright before I get to Mike white though I gotta get your thoughts on this whole the the the ESPN poll and how I think it was 11 out of the 103 guys that they pulled thought Josh Allen was overrated I don't know Matt I mean that that seems a little bit uh I don't know stupid would be the word how could anybody think that Josh Allen is overrated and I think this goes back to it goes back to two things he hasn't won a Super Bowl which guess what a lot of guys haven't won a Super Bowl in this league because Patrick Mahomes has won three of them now in the last whatever it's five or six years that's part of it and the turnovers I think he gets knocked down the peg more than anybody because of the turnovers yet I did this last year I did a story on it you go back and look at the turnovers last year there were like I think he had 18 total there were like four that even had a semi impact on on the final result of the game yeah they it all sucks when you turn it over but his turnovers were very often not even an important part excuse me important part of the game and I think that's why everyone thinks he's overrated I think that's crazy what are your thoughts yeah so like I get that he makes a lot of mistakes but for every mistake he makes there's five to 10 game-changing plays that he makes and that he puts his team in a position to win weekend and week out and you know I think that first of all when you're talking about players like they have their own kind of Vibes with it all right like I I think I saw in that poll that Lamar Jackson was voted as the second best quarterback in in the NFL and like I like Lamar Jackson a lot he's fun to watch he's a really good player but when the games start to matter in January Lamar Jackson has been irrelevant and that to me is the the biggest measuring stick for quarterbacks is like what do you do when you have a chance to go to a Super Bowl and the bills haven't gone to a Super Bowl yet but the only team in the AFC that's gone to a Super Bowl in this era has been the Chiefs and one year when Joe burrow got through with the Cincinnati Bengals and I think you can make an argument that Josh Allen has been as good against the Chiefs on the offensive side as any other player in football over the last couple of years it's just they got Patrick Mahomes on the other side and it's gonna be this you know it was the it was the story with pton Manny and Tom Brady for years right s like Pon Manny was knocking on the door knocking on the door knocking on the door people wer calling him overrated it was just it was just that you had that guy on the other side and then eventually Payton Manny won a Super Bowl yeah absolutely I mean Lamar Jackson is a terrific player I did not think he was the MVP of the League last year um the first time he won it yeah I I think he was the true MVP but like you said he's done nothing in the postseason and if you're asking me today on whatever date this is August 30th who would you want to start at NFL franchise with Patrick Mahomes Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson I would skew right now Patrick Mahomes but there's no doubt about it Josh Allen would be the next guy that I would take if he gets if Mahomes went somewhere else joshan went over Lamar Jackson every single time for me there's so many things that Josh Allen can do that you know no other really player can do I mean Patrick Mahomes I guess is in his own category and he does rush the ball a little bit but the way that Josh Allen can take over the game as a runner and what he can do down the field all three areas I think the argument's been made about Lamar that he's never had like star power around him although he's had a pretty good tight end they've had some good receivers there uh over the years they had Odell Beckham a couple years ago we'll find out a lot about Josh Allen this year like if you want to take that overrated um you know declaration and and throw it off to the side if you're Josh Allen you go out this year with Stefon Diggs now playing in Houston and if you put up those numbers once again I don't think any party in the media in the league is going to be able to call this guy overrated yeah no way all right since we're on quarterback I thought I'd bring up the Mike White um signing the other day you know M man I told you and I have talked probably 10 times on the sidelines about MIT trabis and why the hell the bills brought him back I don't understand it they had him here once yeah he was a good dude Allen liked him all that and then he went off to try again to be a starter in Pittsburgh and flopped Mor you know spectacularly couldn't even hold the job against Kenny picket for crying out loud and the bills for whatever reason bring him back again because he's a good guy and joshh likes him but God forbid Josh enen got hurt and he does have 98 straight starts so we haven't had to worry about this since 2018 but if he should get hurt you want a guy who can go in and and be competitive and win I I just don't see trabis being the guy they signed Mike white though the other day now look Mike White is is not a starting quarterback in the NFL but if you had to if you ask me who would be the guy I would trust more to go into a game right now I would pick Mike White over Mitch trabis I don't know what you think I'd like to know but if if trabis is gonna be out the first couple weeks I'm actually kind of comfortable with Mike White as the backup quarterback what what what are your thoughts on that so first and foremost the worst thing that ever happened to the bills and Mitch trisi is that in his first stint he really didn't play any meaningful snaps in the regular season right like he played in the preseason got in the year and Josh Allen you know the bills are happy about this was healthy so you never got to see what it was going to actually look like that was when Brian D still here so we're two offensive coordinators away from that and to your point he looks so bad in Pittsburgh that it almost makes you wonder like okay he's a backup quarterback you thought he was going to be an upgrade over Kyle Allen and I thought for the most part in practices he looked pretty solid but you're right once we got to the games it just it was such a difficult proposition of working them down the field and that's because he always is always is going to take the check down always that's just ingrain in who he is Mike White the complete opposite he's going to be a guy that goes out there and to his detriment at times tries to push the ball down the field tries to make big plays Brandon Bean even mentioned it when we talked to him a couple days ago remembering that game when he got drilled by Matt Milano and still stayed in the game um he's a gamer right and I think you need that as the backup to Josh because Josh in his own way is that kind of you know risk-taking gamer himself so I like the addition I think it's going to be another situation where if you get to the opener isn't ready you got a quarterback that you got to send out there potentially as a backup that has only been in the in the building for two weeks but I think his style is better suited for what they want to do uh so we'll see it's definitely a good addition and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point like the money makes sense to keep him on the roster this year in trabis what if they go in a different direction next year yeah I mean and you're right being said it the other day this guy has no check down Charlie which is exactly how Mitch trais plays which drives you nuts so yeah hopefully we don't have to even worry about this Josh Allen just stays healthy all year which has been his you know it's been his mod modus operand since 2018 but yeah I like the addition um sticking with the offense Matt I wanted to bring up um I just did a big story on Ray Davis today um finally did some real journalism Matt you know wrote a good 3,000-word story instead of you know five reasons why the bills are going to stink this year whatever stupid stuff I have to usually write but this one I kind of dug into a little bit and you know the story because you know you know from the draft and all that anyways Ray Davis I think is going to play a role on this team um James Cook had 281 touches last year way more I mean that was more than he had his entire college career he's a good player I think some of that was it was quiet I thought Matt I mean he compiled stats last year but there were certainly moments when James Cook you know didn't do the things you needed him to do again good player but I think adding Ray Davis to the mix I really like it and I think I think Ray Davis is going to take some snaps away from James Cook I'm not really thinking too much about Tai Johnson for this I think he's a good guy to have on the team but I don't know what you think I think Ray Davis might be the number two and he might be the guy who plays when James Cook needs a breather or things aren't going well they've set themselves up and they've stocked the cupboard like you know you don't want to pay a running back in this economy when you are paying your uh quarterback and James Cook is gonna be coming up in two years these these four years on these rookie running back uh contracts go quick and I think that Ray Davis to your point is the perfect kind of compliment for now and we'll see if he can maybe Ascend into a larger role if James Cook prices himself out a buffalo here's the thing though there's so much that goes into this offense I still think that you're gonna see generally what James Cook had last season again this year can he stay healthy though he stayed healthy last year and that kept him on the field that's what I'm going to be watching for a little bit more this year and if Davis kind of shows that he's comfortable in the first month of the season they put a little bit on his plate he Aces the test and you're willing to put a little bit more on his plate as you go then you're starting to see okay if James Cook has any of those drop issues that you saw last year they need him to be a big part of this passing game there there's just a lack of Big Time reliable weapons in the wide receiver room they're excited about Shakir Curtis Samuel we could talk about all five of those guys and what they potentially can be but I still think you trust James Cook just about as much as any of them in the passing game and he had some drop issues last year so if he has any of those issues Ray Davis is a guy that they trust in the passing game as well did it at a high level in college I'm right there with you I think that he's his role is only going to gradually grow over the course of his rookie season and I think he could be in line to be the uh era parent to cook if he signs a big contract at the end of his deal I think I think we're going to see more passes to running backs this year I mean they kind of have to right with with all those targets gone with Diggs and Davis I think I think Joe Brady is GNA rework some things I think they're G to see more two tight end than we probably think we're gonna see um with canc and Knox and I think the running backs are going to have to play a role in that passing game and you know those are the Easy Button throws for Josh Ellen I don't think he he's thrilled about making those throws he'd rather go to his outside guys down the field a bit but I think they're going to be important and yeah you're right James Cook if he can prove that he can stop dropping the ball and make plays he will keep Ray Davis you know not glued to the bench but certainly maybe taking less touches than I'm anticipating he'll get but he's got to go out and do it so we'll see all right let's go over to defense real quick yesterday um I guess the news got out that mcder is gonna let Bobby babich call the plays mighty nice of them I guess right way should have gone all along look Sean did a good job last year but I've always been you know I go back to the Marv ly days Matt because I'm old and one of the things that Marv did best and he even said it you gotta delegate the head coach has got to be the CEO and you delegate to your coaches especially your coordinator so I wasn't thrilled last year when Shawn was doing both jobs he did admit at the end of the season that he lost track of the offense and special teams sometimes because he was you know huddling with the defense so I think it's good that he's got a trusted lieutenant and Bobby babich he's been there since day one Nobody Knows the defense better than babich does I'm glad that Shawn's gonna entrust him to just do the job and I like the energy we both do that babage brings to it so I'm looking forward to seeing how he calls the defense yeah I think Shawn's still gonna have his thumb print on some of the things they do and the big decisions that have to be made but I like the fact that he's gonna turn it over to Bobby and let him run with it what do you think definitely Ely and if you look at some of the coaches that do call their own like side of the ball like Andy Reed's the the cleanest example of somebody that does it at a high level he's got somebody on the other side of the ball that he could trust to be almost like a head coach in his own right in Steve Spagnola uh the bills don't have that right like they have two very young coordinators that I think Shawn has to kind of be ingrained on both sides of the ball be involved in both sides of the ball and you can't do that if your all of your attention every week is game planning setting all of you know uh the plans for a game and then getting into the game and then focusing so much on the defense and I think yeah babich if you're going to have anybody call your defense I don't know if you could find a better guy to do it who's been there since 2017 has been in multiple position rooms and to your point has a group of guys that seem to really want to play for him um I think Joe Brady like as much as this is going to be the storyline every year with in Josh Allen's Prime it's going to be they get off to a slow start I mean that's going to be trouble because you we talked about the start of the show if the bills drop too far down in the AFC East it's going to be really daunting to try to make up that ground against two teams that are kind of nipping at their heels a little bit so I think having a little bit of involvement but the other question that I kind of pingpong back to you is more involvement on the offensive side at the same time a good thing because at times it seemed like fans and media have been frustrated when Shawn wants his Thum print too much on the philos ophy offensively yeah I think I think he trusts Joe Brady to operate that side I mean obviously the head coach has got to make the big decisions go forward on fourth down or you know he can overrule a play that he hears in the headset at the last second I don't think I think Sean I don't know we're we're not on the field so we're not really sure what the hell's going on down there but I think Shawn does step aside for the most part on offense he had he trusted dble until they didn't get along I guess and you know he trusted Ken dorsy until he fight him and now he's got Brady so I think I think he has let these guys do what they need to do and I think he'll stay out of the mix that way he'll make the big decisions what which is what I think is the most important thing for the head coach to do so I think Brady I think the pressure if you ask me who's under more pressure this year Joe Brady or Bobby babit in his first year calling plays I think it's Brady wouldn't you say so with the weapons that he has the quarterback he has they've scored over 30 points per game for like four straight years they've got to keep that train ring and B and Joe Brady's on the hook for that he did a great job taking over at midseason but he's changing some things right like even Josh Allen said that like conceptually they're adding new things to this offense it's going to look different this is the first real departure from the Brian dable offense that really took this offense to the moon so you're right if it doesn't look right like what are they going to be we've seen so much over the last couple of weeks like in in Camp and then in the preseason I don't think they're showing much are they going to be a more heavily 12 Personnel usage team are they going to continue to be an 11 are they going to use some more three tight end looks um you know I know they love Reggie gilam I think a a lot of us are kind of cringe every time he's on the receiving end of a pass from Josh Allen but I totally agree with you I think that the the pressure is always going to be on the offensive coordinator because it's like if you're not getting the most out of Josh Allen what are we doing here y all right Matt I think we can wrap it up pal um look I appreciate you jumping in here for me um we like cross promotion here at believeing bills so go ahead and uh go ahead and pimp your your deal even though you don't need to because they got like five million subscribers over there at shout but tell people where they can find you too listen I don't I don't have any interest in and pimping that but I will tell you that you better sign up for pinstripe Pride baby uh no pinstripe people pinstripe people I get my news letter every week on on the Yankees every three days after the series and usually s's complaining about something I will uh I will continue to pimp that everywhere but uh hey I appreciate that and Matt I'll see you out there next week thanks for being here and for everyone out there this has been believe in bills have a great day