I'm Johnny Cash no I'm not I'm Trace Savage and I am here to moderate this debate tonight and I'd love for folks to find their seats we're getting ready to begin and we're going to need a little more laughter than that at my bad jokes if we can get started uh Hey like I said I'm Trey Savage of nonoc media I'm here on stage with Aaron Christie of kjrh to moderate this debate [Applause] tonight they must be pooring drink strong at the K's Ballroom bar uh listen the live stream is up right now on kjrh.com this is a little bit of a soft open so you have time to get that live stream share it on social media text it to your friends now and we are recording tonight's debate for air on channel 2 it's going to be at 9:00 at night on Thursday August 15th and we want to thank our partners nondoc and the Tulsa Regional Chamber for making this event possible let's give the Tulsa chamber a round of applause for believing in public debates responsible discussions and for trusting media like us to lead these public debates I'd also like to thank the other sponsors of nonoc broader 2024 debate series The State Chamber Of Oklahoma and AARP Oklahoma give them a round of [Applause] applause so once you have found the live stream you've texted Ed it to your friends told everyone about it we want you to silence your phones make sure your ringers are off you don't want to be the one that we all stare at when the ringer goes off in the middle of the debate right and speaking of the audience it would be awesome to have silence that was pretty good and uh we we want to have some time for you to clap so we've got three rounds of questions tonight at the end of each round just hold your applause till then we can give everybody a big round of applause uh I will say this we need people to be respectful don't shout things from the audience if you do we'll have security remove you from the audience if we can't get everybody to behave reasonably we will stop the debate we will clear the room and wait and resume the debate after everybody's out but I think we can avoid that right I would hope so pretty Wild Bunch we have tonight so let's welcome tonight's debate participants to the stage in alphabetical order please welcome Karen Keith Monroe Nichols and Brent Van Norman [Applause] thank you so much to each of you for being here let's just do a quick mic check for each of you a test one two Mr Van Norman test one two commissioner good evening representative test one two wonderful thank you so much all right that should be the conclusion of this soft opening for our debate we're going to have about five seconds of Silence before we kick this thing off if it helps you to think about being grateful and thankful for something do that while I'm on the stage if I can quote the legendary Ray Wy hubard and say that the days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations are good days hello and welcome to the Tulsa twostep a debate between top candidates who want to be the next mayor of Tulsa my name is Trace Savage I'm the editor and chief of ndoc.com and independent journalism publication based here in Oklahoma I'm here at Kane's Ballroom to moderate this debate with Aaron chrisy of two News Oklahoma thank you Trey so excited to be here at the historic K's ballroom with Tulsa's top mayoral candidates according to recent polling County Commissioner Karen Keith state representative Monroe Nichols and businessman Brent Van Norman although seven candidates filed to run for mayor of Tulsa this year we had to set a competitive threshold for participation in this 1-hour debate each candidate either needed to achieve public polling showing at least 10% support or verifiable campaign fundraising of $50,000 while candidates Casey Bradford John Jolly Caleb Hooser and Paul Tay did not prove those marks by last week's deadline I have offered them an opportunity to answer a series of questions in writing that will be published on non do.com between now and the August 27th election If no candidate receives more than 50% of the vote August 27th the Tulsa Mayoral race will head to a November runoff the same electoral schedule applies to Tulsa's nine city council seats make sure you're voting Aaron we've got to thank our other partner who cares about voting tonight at the debate the Tulsa Regional Chamber is making this possible I truly appreciate your value of Tulsa of public debates for this community thank you so much here's tonight's format each candidate will have two-minute opening statements we'll have three rounds of questions and then we'll conclude with two-minute closing statements we drew numbers earlier to determine the order it'll be the same for opening the same for clothing without further Ado Mr Van Norman you are going first 2 minute opening statement to you our timekeepers are there in the middle great well thank you for being here tonight and I want to start off by asking you a question and that is what would do you envision Tulsa being five years from now here's my vision I Believe Tulsa will be a vibrant business Community we will be attracting a lot of new business to Tulsa existing businesses will be growing faster than they can imagine that's going to create a number of new jobs great paying jobs that will not only help uh families make it but it will help them buy homes it will help them Thrive secondly I think our public schools in 5 years will be ranked at the top this state if not the very top third I think our streets will be free of debris and our sidewalks will be free of debris and the streets will no longer be the enemy to your tires you'll feel safe outside your home you'll feel safe leaving your home you'll feel safe navigating around town because crime will have been reduced significantly and lastly when we talk about homelessness we'll talk about it in the past tense that's my vision it's a big vision and I believe it's going to require a pro bus conservative leader my opponents on this stage tonight are both liberal Democrats they're great people they're wonderful to be around they're well- intended but their policies will lead us toward being the next Seattle the next Portland the next Minneapolis or next San Francisco I'm different from that my background is and I in in looking at the background you have to remember that we have a billion doll budget and over 3,500 employees as the City of Tulsa my background is I'm a CPA I've been a CPA I was a pastor I've been an attorney and I've worked with three different businesses a title insurance company an investment fund and a software company and so the question comes is it better to have a business person or a politician leading to into the future I believe we can be that shining City on a Hill I commit to that and that will be the focus of my campaign and that will be the focus of me being mayor thank you thank you very much commissioner Keith let's hold those applauses if we can commissioner Keith two minutes to you opening statement first of all thank you all so much for being here because you know what that tells me is you love this city as much as I do now I want to talk about where I come from 26 years in broadcast and then I went to work for Mayor Bill of Fortune because I was scared to death of what our downtown looked like it was absolutely dead and I went there begged for a job so I could work on what would become Vision 2025 it was successful we got the B Center and we got a housing fund that would convert these old apartment buildings into uh actually convert the business buildings into amazing apartment buildings and now we have all these people living downtown it was absolutely transformative after that I went to work as a county commissioner for 16 years and I have loved this job and I'm proud of the work we've done to build the levies and in cooperation with the chamber the one voice program we were able to secure 137 million in federal funds and then this spring again with their help another 50 million from the state worked on the gilr expressway that was a Statewide project included federal funds as well we called it all the colors of money and now it's a beautiful facility and then I worked to do an industrial park it's in a very challenged census track up near the turnpike Tollgate and I'm very proud that it is full the and and it's just absolutely thriving and I've done all this work because I work across party lines if you're partisan it's very hard to get this work done so my vision is safe neighborhoods well-maintained streets and affordable housing because no one no one should call our streets home I'm really proud to have the endorsements of the fop and our firefighters and I am ready on day one to lead thank you thank you very much commissioner representative Nichols two minutes opening statement to you thank you and thank you everybody for being here I want to First just thank my mother Ramona Curtis and my son Gavin Nichols for being here this evening really appreciate y'all being here and and I want to point them out because uh for us this is this is a little bit of the family business Public Service uh and as such for a year uh I've been running for mayor here in Tulsa and from the very start I've talked about four priorities that I think are critical to tls's Future one is ending homelessness as we know it two is working every day to redefine the mayor's role in education to improve student outcomes three expanding our local economy by strengthening our Workforce and four making this the safest big city in the country and every every single day we've talked about just doing just that we haven't talked about things that might happen or things that could happen we've talked about things that we're going to make happen and we're going to make sure that we're accountable and getting it done uh what I believe is I believe that Tulsa has more potential than any other community in the country I also know that potential will never be reached unless we dispose of some of these challenges that are nipping at our heels these are stubborn challenges I respect them it's not easy but I ain't afraid of them either and I'm ready to serve as as mayor of the city it's built on eight years in the legislature it's built on my time in the mayor's office it's built on my time at one of our uh sponsors here tonight at the Tulsa Regional Chamber uh I have the experience the broad experience to do this job I have a plan and a vision unlike my opponents on what and how we're going to move Tulsa forward and at the end of the day we talk about endorsements been endorsed by a former mayor I've been endorsed by two former governors I've been endorsed by teachers the people who have done jobs and jobs like this the people who are depending on somebody to be their fighter in the mayor's office guess who they endorsed they've endorsed me and it's not because they've known me the longest but because they know that I'm committed to getting the job done for tulson thank you very much [Music] representative we're going to go to our first round of questions tonight we're on the clock it's uh titled the center of your universe and we're going to ask you questions about this job you're seeking we will each have a minute to answer each question we'll rotate who answers first we'll start alphabetically commissioner Keith I have a question for you you are running to succeed mayor GT bham what from his legacy in office will you try to carry forward and what would you like to see done differently well I definitely have uh different ideas about how I would like to do things but I'm also very proud of how he navigated us through some very difficult times we stood side by side during the flood in 2019 and then during issues with covid we tried to navigate that the best that we could but he was a good leader for us during that time period I love how he has made this a welcoming City and for folks who say it's a sanctuary City it is not a sanctuary City a welcoming City means that we Embrace those who are here we work with them and we uplift them and I want to continue those policies and then work on some new things that will help lift our city and also I want to engage with all of you for your vision what is next for Tulsa we'll work on that together represent Nichols same question to you what from mayor Bam's Legacy would you try to carry forward and what specifically would you like to see done differently 60 seconds thank you you know the one thing I'll say outside of any policy area that I appreciate most about the mayor he's done all these things over the years and it's hard serving in office it's hard serving an office particularly as a dad uh and so I appreciate him always making sure that he's taking care of the things with his family and those types of things I understand you know raising Gavin how tough that can be and I appreciate that and that's something that I'll always remember fondly about GT's time in office and the example he set navigating some challenging times uh as a parent I will say the thing I would do differently we have something called the Tulsa equality indicators and I and I thank mayor bam for taking leadership and making sure that Tulsa is tracking where we are but it's time we stop admiring those problems and do something about it and that's the reason why the plan that I have right here uh for my plan as mayor is all dependent on not just looking at those numbers but making sure we're doing things every day to change them thank you very much Mr Van Norman 60 seconds to you same question what from Mr May mayor Bam's Legacy will you carry forward what do you want to do differently well I appreciate the fact that he has tried to work to bring people together I think that Beyond apology group and their report uh it will lead us forward and I'm thankful for that and I'm thankful for the leadership that he took in that I would go 180 degrees on the welcoming City issue because I believe it's one step toward a sanctuary City we live in a constitutional republic there's something called the rule of law and we have to follow the law and my understanding of a welcoming city is that we're picking and choosing laws to follow there's a democratic process if you want to change the law you can change the law but to say we're going to ignore the law is a very dangerous precedent to set and so I would I would certainly not want to uh continue down that path thank you very much Ain you have the ne let's hold those Applause really quick we were on a time crunch uh Ain you have the next question we're going to move on to the next question and this is for representative Nichols first for this question I want you to answer two things considering your background and personality what most qualifies you to be mayor of Tulsa and secondly what is the biggest challenge facing the city as a whole yeah that's a great question so I'll start with I've now spent the last eight years in the Oklahoma House of Representatives uh before that I co-found an organization called impact Tulsa all about making sure we guarantee a high quality education for every child in Tulsa County before that I ran the chambers business retention expansion program spending every day thinking about what do we have to do to grow small business businesses to make sure we're expanding the economy before that I worked at Career Tech investing Workforce areas before that I was Chief of Staff of the president at OU Tulsa uh and as we were trying to you know narrow the gap on Community Health and before that I worked in the mayor's office and when I was in the mayor's office uh we took what was a over budget holding the ground the bo Center and we turned into a world class facility thereby revitalizing downtown I've had the experience at the state at the city at the chamber and higher education and I the only person has that brought of experience in this race I think homelessness is number one I talked about at the very top I think it's number one on everybody's mind and it's the issue that we've committed to Ending by 2030 okay Mr Van Norman same question 60 seconds yeah so I think a 40-year business career in which I've had the opportunity to lead large organizations I've had as many as 20 direct reports before uh managed uh multiple hundreds of people from time to time and so I think that experience in in both accounting as a pastor and as an attorney and and having run organizations I think will serve the city well it has a billion dollar budget it has 3500 employees it really needs a CEO and that's the skill set that I bring to the table in doing that you know I homelessness is certainly a huge issue it's something I want to tackle but I think the city needs to become business friendly we have too many times where we don't treat you like the customer and we need to treat you like the customer we need to streamline processes the permitting process takes way too long right now we need to compress that so that you can't say that we are open for business if you can't open a business and so I commit to making tulsy the business business friendliest place on Earth commissioner Keith 60 seconds so I have longevity in my jobs because I dly true work at them and I doly true move the needle and I also have relationships I have relationships with the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce with the city counc ouncers and with a mayor that has to engage with City councilors that's the only way we can all work and move this city forward I also have relationships with the head of ODOT the head of the Turnpike Authority and I know who to call when I need help I also work well with our federal delegation as you all know and our state legislators that's how you get things done it's not putting something on a piece of paper I know how to collaborate I know how to work with people bring the best Minds together together to solve problems I'm not going to say I've written down I've got a plan that's going to work for everybody and I'm the only one weighing in on that that's not the case I know how to bring the best folks mind because we do need to solve problems like permitting and we need to solve problems like our homeless thank you very much Mr Van Norman next question for you 60 seconds in your opinion what are the three most important duties of being the mayor of Tulsa well first of all the the mayor is the CEO of the city it's it's it's an executive role I think the first thing is you have to surround yourself with very good people very talented people the mayor Cann not do it by himself or herself you have to have other great people around you the other thing the second thing I think you need to do is you need to assess every area of the city you need to assess the Departments that are out there you need to see are they really productive are they bringing benefit to the residents in our community or have they been around for a long time and they're not truly serving a useful purpose and then once you do that assessment you establish priorities and uh you follow those priorities and in this case I think again the priorities are going to be one B being business friendly second addressing Public Safety and third helping and coming alongside our school system thank you very much commissioner Keith same question you what are the three most important duties of being mayor I think it's working with our employees to make sure that they interface with you as the citizens to get the jobs done that they need to do and that would be in particular about permitting and inspections department because we do have issues with development and I'm so thankful that Mr Van Norman has adopted my plank so I am I will also be working to build a very positive Workforce and sometimes it takes training to to turn the ship so I will be heavily involved in that as well and also in community engagement as the CEO of a city you've got to engage with the community and that means also listening to your city counselors they are the boots on the ground and they will help decide what we need to do to get things done thank you very much we borrow these podiums from OSU so let's not break them uh representative Nichols 60 seconds to you yeah no I had you know I'd agree the number one job of a mayor is CEO of an organization of almost 3,000 employees and making sure that building works well you can't meet any of the goals that I talked about at the top of this without that organization being a welled machine I think also you got to be a strong Ambassador for this community and talk about not only the the bad things were happen but the great things that are happening and making sure that those great things are true for everybody that lives here uh and I think that's a role an important role for a mayor and third I think you got to be a defender of your community when somebody picks on your public schools when somebody calls teachers terrorists you defend your community and you don't make any apologies about it so I think CEO Ambassador and Defender is the role of a mayor and I'm looking forward to being just that guy thank you representative just to the audience if you Hoot and Holler while they're talking the people watching online can't hear okay we are going to end round one with our first toss-up question of the night uh it means everybody gets 30 seconds whoever gets to go first it's up to you Aaron we've heard Tulsa Business Leaders say the mayor must be a great partner for economic development someone who can prioritize being available when business prospects come to town someone who can effectively Advocate and navigate the bureaucracy of City Hall so here is your toss up how do you convince Tulsa's Economic Development Community you are the partner they seek anyone can answer first 30 seconds because they know me they know that I will be at the ready when they need me to go on some of these Economic Development trips it's what I like to do I love to sell this city because it is such an amazing place for us to be and I can't wait to bring people here and show them all the great things that we have from the Gathering Place to all of our districts downtown but I will be at the ready and they know me they know they can count on me 30 seconds yes so for me I've I've done Road shows before when I worked for the investment fund uh that I'm still on the board of I literally went around and I made presentations on the fund and raised over hund million for the fund by giving Road shows and presentations I know that the chamber would love to have someone with a business background and business Acumen to go out because I know how to attract business I've invested in business and so that characteristic that quality will instill confidence that the city needs representative 30 seconds to you please 30 seconds representative well you know uh I used to be one of them uh actually and so i' be I'll be excited about being in the chamber and getting back into the economic development world as a mayor but what I think the business Community would appreciate most about me is those four priorities I'm going to end homelessness as we know it I'm going to improve student outcome so our Workforce is strong I'm going to make this the safest big city in the country I'm going to make sure the economic development community in this city has something to sell for every business looking for a home no matter where in the country they are today that's the end of round one now give them all a round of applause Putin holler for your hearts [Applause] Delight they're still they're still Po and strong drinks apparently at can's they were on round two uh Erin got the first question here this is titled safe at home we're going to dive into some policy topics Aaron another tossup we begin with a tossup we need some Wheel of Fortune music I think Trace where were you at that there's been a lot of talk about how to address homelessness in Tulsa trace and I hear from citizens who say all that talk hasn't brought up enough action a recent poll found homelessness to be the top issue concerning tulson so your tossup is what is the first action you would take as mayor on the topic of homelessness you have 30 seconds to answer who wants to go first I'm happy too well first of all homelessness is not primarily a housing issue it is a drug addiction issue and it is a mental health issue and while there is a housing component to it people do have to have shelter they won't show up for appointments uh I was just at God Shining Light which is a phenomenal Ministry they just bought 109 a motel with 109 Apartments I would come alongside those they're going to house a lot of people they're going to give them counseling and and they're going to bring people off the streets to become protected members of our society 30 go ahead sorry I would be tackling the permitting and inspection issue because our developers working in the affordable housing space cannot get these projects done in a timely manner it costs too much money and it takes too long so that's an important piece for us to fix so that we can get more affordable housing out of the ground I will be working closely with our Mental Health Providers and I celebrate that our firefighters are working with Family and Children Services and meeting our homeless where they are on the streets represented Nichols 30 Seconds To You great hey you know look I already have a plan that ends homelessness by 2030 I'm excited about it so I don't have to stand up here and try to make up stuff on the spot um but but it starts with the mayor's office becoming by appointing somebody so we become the chief convenor and mobilizer of our Citywide response to homelessness it goes to us making sure we are working every day to reduce evictions uh building a strong coordinated sub uh system of mental health and substance abuse supports and fr and and finally rapidly increasing our affordable housing stock we have a plan to do 2,000 units every year to 2028 so we make sure we get on top of this crisis thank you very much representative I've got the next question for you for the next three questions we're going to go 75 seconds for each candidate to answer each question we're going to dive a little bit more into policy representative I want you to describe your understanding of North Tulsa real estate development north of Interstate 244 let let's say land records show frequent real estate activity in North Pulsa for a community that has experienced Decades of inad inadequate resource development but as big projects have filled in the downtown area here just south of i44 that Prosperity has mostly trickled North only in terms of land speculation as a result many people feel like North Tulsa is getting short changed while housing offices restaurants and Retail boom just a mile or two away so describe North Tulsa's situation and tell us something you will do to address the vast inequalities and inequities separated by i44 yeah great great question and you know I've now for the last8 years in part represented uh portions of North Tulsa so this is something that is near and dear to me and I remember when I was knocking doors in 2016 uh I would go and I would knock around the neighborhood and I would notice there were some some really nice maybe kind of small houses next to some blighted properties these properties where the titles were unclear and it was not clear about what we could do about it you go and you call we don't know how to do anything about it and so in the legislature there are a couple things that got got busy doing first I passed a bill to expand the affordable housing tax credit before I got elected if you were in Tulsa and a developer you were not eligible for the tax credit at that point secondly we've worked every year I've got it out of the house every single year can't get it out we haven't gotten out of the Senate a bill that would give the city new tools and rapidly taking care and cleaning the titles on those blighted properties my plan for nor Tulsa is to make sure we get that done we start to take control of these neighborhoods to revitalize them and we make what was once obled property into the Cornerstone of revitalized neighborhoods allowing us to meet our affordable housing needs but also to close the economic Gap most folks hold their wealth and a property and we're going to make sure that we level the playing field should I get elected mayor thank you very much Mr Van Norman 75 seconds to you same question describe North Tulsa's situation and tell us something you will do to address the vast inequalities and inequities north of i23 244 well I have been up to North Tulsa many times I held a town hall up there uh Timothy Baptist Church in which we brought Community leaders in and I listened to them and I asked them this question I said you know you can have a seat at my table anytime you want but what I want is a seat at your table I want to listen to you I want to hear what you have to say I want to hear the ideas you have North Tulsa has been The Dumping Ground of projects that are not wanted anywhere else and that has to stop it's simply unacceptable but what we can do there are great opportunities up there there are things called Tiff districts there's some already in existence but I'm expanding those Tiff districts and real quickly what a tiff does for you let's say you have a property that's uh it's run down a bit maybe it's worth $50,000 you need a $50,000 loan you get a $50,000 loan that property is now worth $100,000 you pay off that loan by paying your taxes because your taxes have now increased to $100,000 to a property at $100,000 that pays off the bond and you end up with a property worth $100,000 ultimately the city ends up with more Revenue coming in in and so I would support uh expanding the Tiff District program and I think that'll bring some real Economic Development to Tulsa north thank you very much commissioner Keith same question to use 75 seconds describe North Tulsa's situation and what are you going to do to address the inequities inequalities between the two areas of town all right there are any number of issues uh some that I consider lwh hanging fruit and that is all of the dogs uh running wild in the streets where people are afraid to walk their neighborhoods we have to address that we have a lot of lights out in North Tulsa again that's something we can do it's easy and everybody complains about that and we need to get additional Workforce we're 130 uh police officers short and we want to make sure that every single neighborhood has the coverage they need but there is you know amazing things on the horizon for instance the Kirk Patrick Heights plan uh is out there and I can't wait to see that come to fruition it's going to be a game changer the Black Wall Street condos the commanche Park Apartments are coming out of the ground and these are going to be transformative for that area and we all know what that looked like before and I know of a developer who's been working in the Crutchfield area and taking house by house he is transforming that and we can help him do more with what he has already done by making it easier for him to get through the permitting and inspections process at our city and opening a remote site for permitting and I plan to do those things thank you very much Mr Van Norman I have the next question for you 75 seconds the BAM Administration has taken the position in multiple court cases that the city still has jurisdiction to adjudicate Municipal criminal offenses such as traffic tickets but the 2020 US Supreme Court decision in murv Oklahoma means that Tulsa's boundaries are within the Mogi and Cherokee reservations at least for purposes of criminal jurisdiction stay tuned and tribes have argued that Tulsa cannot adjudicate traffic offenses and the against tribal citizens you're an attorney if you become mayor will your Administration continue to P pursue criminal jurisdiction over tribal citizens in Tulsa yes absolutely to not do that is to invite chaos into the city you can't have people just because they have a different license plate uh be able to to drive differently in the city and break the law if someone's here from Kansas and they're speeding we expect our police to pull them over and give them a ticket and so we have to do that same thing uh there are ways that we are now cross deputizing uh between the tribes and the city and we need to continue that quite frankly the tribes are not set up yet to be able to one they don't have enough officers to enforce the law secondly their court system isn't set up yet with a robust enough uh system to be able to prosecute all of those so we have to work together now we do need to sit down we need to have communication with each other the tribal leaders need to communicate with the city and the city needs to communicate with them we need to have a mutual understanding we need to have agreements in place so that there's no confusion out there on the streets but I think if we work together there's no reason why we can't share jurisdiction out there and there's no reason why someone can can be treated differently under the law we all ought to be treated equally under the law thank you and I just want to be clear tickets can be written it's the adjudication what court what jurisdiction we're talking about commissioner Keith same question to you if you are to become mayor will your Administration continue to pursue the criminal jurisdiction uh over tribal citizens in Tulsa in this manner so I think my relationships with the Nations will be helpful we need to get on the same page I can promise you they don't want like having all this disparate um laws in place they want us to all work well work well together so let's sitting down and talking with them we have amazing leadership in our Nations and I respect that leadership and I want to work with them as far as the courts are concerned if we build a new County Courthouse or when we do I've even talked with them about a a potential uh tribal court and uh Chief Hoskins called it a pan tribal court so I think there are ways that we can work together to make life better for all of the citizens and make it easier for them to navigate the legal issues that they might face so and of course the cross deputization is very important but these are things that we can work through absolutely sitting down at the table I just want to ask though are would you continue the current current administration's legal position that the that the City of Tulsa has authority to adjudicate such offenses yes I think we have the authority to do that but I want to sit down with our Chiefs with the Nations and talk about the best path forward and I believe that we can come to some consensus and maybe get rid of that uh the legal issues thank you so much representative same question to you I'm not going to repeat it I think you know it by now in the legislature yeah the the direct answer to the question is no uh Al is the largest city in the country that's all Indian reservation and what I know from my 8 years in the legislature and the attacks against tribes over those years what I know is tribal sovereignty can't be something you're for when it's convenient it has to be something that you stand on all the time and it's been settled in law already uh and so that is the reason why the very first thing in this campaign I talked about covering with our tribal Nations and that starts with the appointment of the first ever director of tribal policy and Partnerships that will have a role in the mayor's office and yes we're going to collaborate and yes we're going to get past all this but we're not going to make it up when we get there it's what we've been talking about since we started this campaign not simply because I like tribes not simply because any of that kind of stuff but the fact is it is the law it is the law and we're going to make sure we drop those lawsuits and we're going to make sure we get on the business with building a community where the city and the tribes are on the same page with somebody in the office who's going to ensure that we always are Aon you have the next question our next question we begin with commissioner Keith one of the Tulsa Police Department's latest Innovations is the incident response team which staffs each Tulsa PD Vision with a mental health professional who can assist officers on calls during the day and into the early evening but the program is not staff 247 which means some officers on some shifts do not have IR support for mental health calls what is your understanding of this program and do you believe the benefits outweigh what could be significant costs for a 247 expansion one of my top priorities will be to make sure that we have the art teams in place 247 is super important because our firefighters will interface with family and children's services therapy uh and so you're dealing with the homeless in a way that is um it's more it's nurturing and will actually help get them to a better place so that's super important to me that we expand that to 247 will be worth every penny can you imagine that we're sending fire trucks on these calls the problem with that is it's wear and tear on our roads it's wear and tear on these super expensive engines and if there is a fire and that engine is needed it cannot leave until that issue is resolved so I am 100,000% in favor of expanding the art teams it makes sense for all of us it makes sense for those individuals experiencing homelessness and it certainly Mak sense for our firefighters representative Nichols what is your understanding of the incident response team do you believe the benefits outweigh the cost to be 247 yeah I think that I think the cost of not doing it is is one thing we can't tolerate so I absolutely uh will make sure that it is is available 24 hours uh the reality is is that so many of the issues that we find in our community where we're talking about homelessness or Public Safety or domestic violence there's an undertoe of of mental health issues and we got to make sure we're taking care of people and so I will absolutely make sure that we have the resources available uh so that that team continues to operate and continues to operate well I'll also say my dad was a police officer uh not every call uh requires law enforcement or should and I think police officers would agree with that and I think the most important thing that we can do in this community is to make sure that when people call for help they get the help that they need not simply the help that we feel like sending them and I think that's critical for us to do Mr Van Norman what is your understanding of the incident response team and do you believe the benefits out weigh the cost to go 247 I believe there are benefits for sure I would suggest first of all that on the 911 calls that we add a fourth category to it right now it's police fire or a medical issue I would suggest we add a mental health uh issue to that as well that you can go directly that that way and it will just increase efficiency there's another number you can dial right now I believe it's 211 but most people don't know that so they dial 911 anyway what I would suggest is a walk before you run approach and I would encourage to have mental health professionals on call it doesn't do good in the middle of the night if people are sleeping to have mental health professionals they are getting paid full-time for something that doesn't necessarily need to be full-time so what I would do is start off with an on call Process allow people to call in assess that and determine is this needed on a full-time basis otherwise I feel like we're wasting taxpayers money by having people available that aren't responding to any of the crises thank you very much I think that's the re of round two give them a round of [Applause] applause and since we're here at KES for round three I decided we had to have a music pun so our title for this round is living on campaign time and this is where we're going to ask uh a question tailored to each of your campaigns the timing is a little different you'll have 60 seconds to answer when we ask you then your opponents will each have 30 seconds and we'll come back to you for a closing 30 seconds uh Aaron we switched this right before the debate you have the next question we're going to begin with Mr Van Norman my understanding is that you moved here to Oklahoma about three years ago in 2013 you ran for the Virginia House of delegates as a conservative independent whose campaign website said marriage should be between one man and one woman in the context of welfare reform and Social Services you wrote that quote making families struggle together is healthy both for the family and society and in a speech this year at Sheridan Church you referred to a need to get back to the idea that public officials must be Christian what is your response to people who think you haven't lived here long enough to lead the city and that some of your statements may carry questionable undertones well there's a lot to that question I I should get more than 60 seconds but first of all we first came to Tulsa in 2008 when our son came here to attend Ru they now live in Midtown and so we have been to the community significantly over the time we decided to come here and retire and live the rest of our lives here because we believe in Tulsa believe in the importance of Tulsa uh with respect to my position one it was taken out of context on no I don't believe that uh people have to be Christians to serve an office that would be crazy what I do believe is that my Christian values inform who I am and they allow me to make good decisions that are compassionate that are loving that are caring and that are in the best interest of other people and so to to paint me as that far right uh crazy person is just inappropriate I'm a business person I I know what it takes to Succeed in Business and I will bring those values from my Christian faith uh to Everything I Do commissioner Keith as longtime residents of the city what are your thoughts about Mr van Norman's recent move to Tulsa well actually um I think Mr van Norman's had some pretty good ideas I do think it's interesting that he came here on the Tulsa remote program um and I'd love to hear some more about that but I I I think it's very interesting but um I think he's had some uh good ideas and I'm happy that he and his family love Tulsa representative Nichols 30 seconds yeah look it's it's I guess it's a great indication that if you move to Tulsa very quickly you can be a part of the decision-making tree here in this community uh so so that's good for him but what I will say is I think it's I think it is sometimes tough when you start a debate and you call somebody a liberal Democrat and then you say I'm not a farri guy um and I'm not saying that that's what he is but I'm saying that's why we have to be careful about that I think more importantly anything when whether you come you're new been here forever the most important thing is how we're going to live together in this community and I'm glad Mr Van Norman is here thank you m Ken Mr Van Norman 30 seconds to you to respond to their responses sure so if you look at Oklahoma City they have a weak mayor and they have a city manager that's the CEO of the city if Oklahoma City were looking for a new city manager which would be their CEO they wouldn't look necessarily for someone that was in the city for 25 or 30 years they would do a nationwide search and find the best person capable of running the city in Tulsa the mayor is the city manager is the CEO so the majority of the job description is like the city manager in Oklahoma City so why would you not pick someone that has that experience in order to run the city thank you very much commissioner Keith I have the next question to you 60 seconds the Family Center for Juvenile Justice is under scrutiny surrounding alleged systemic abuse against children since these allegations have surfaced you and other Tulsa County Commissioners have largely said the situation caught you off guard but at last week's Forum hosted by the Tulsa World you brought up your efforts to build the new Family Center for Juvenile Justice as one of your big accomplishments on the one hand it seems like you want some credit for building the facility on the other hand you've suggested that a district judge a state agency and even the legislature may have had more responsibility to know about the problems than than you so so what do you say to voters who might think that you're trying to have it both ways fair question 60 seconds all right first of all I am proud it is a world class facility but I think you should also know that we found out about this at the same time that you did and I am appalled and heartbroken at what is going on there because nobody has worked harder to do right by our young people in this community and there is a lot of misinformation about what happened and what is happening in that facility so here are some facts I want to share with you for 50 years the district judges have run our facility under the supervision of another state agency the oja and we found out about those latest allegations at the same time that you did um and I will say this we got a letter from the judge saying I don't want to do this anymore we have taken it over and it's not something we want to do forever but we have have to do what is in the best interests of the children oja is in there with us every day and just yesterday we got a report that they are very pleased with how things are going and one of them even said hey Mr Parker is kind of cool so um that some of the kids said that so I you know it's big job there's a lot of work to do but we are committed to doing right by these kids thank you very much uh representative Nichols you have been critical about this uh but you're in the leg what have you learned about why oja did not step in earlier yeah you know look what I've I've talked to the director what the director told me is they weren't quite aware of all the things that were happening but I know they did make the Commissioners aware two years ago I know they made them aware about things a year after that and what I also know is when you're mayor hold on I also know when you're mayor you can't wake up and say something's not your job and so at one point when it was convenient I did it another point I don't know anything about it and now I'm able to remov to the director so I don't know which one of those things it is but what I do know is since this started there's not been one time any County Commissioner including commissioner Keith who I who I like very much who has said anything compassionate about what those kids went through told us what they were going to do about it at any point in time and I think that is a real tragedy in this situation Mr Van Norman 30 seconds to you on this topic what are what are your thoughts let's keep this going well I would if you want to find the facts I would encourage you to go out there's a group called apple seed that has put together a very thorough documentation that goes back four years they've done an outstanding in job doing that I think what you will find is there was knowledge a long time before the rest of us knew about it and that this egregious situation continues they locked up the sex offenders but they left everybody else in place that was still there abusing those kids I think it's egregious I even as mayor I think you take responsibility for something that's in your territory no more excuses commissioner uh thank you very much commissioner 30 seconds back to you what is your response to some of the things that were said let's go back to the facts last year the juvenile center was put on probation and oja was in their monitoring uh day after day month after month in December oja said everything is good and we are and we are turning it back over to the bureau and at that point we were relying on a state agency to to say that things were good in that Bureau a few months later we find out the issues uh that they're just horrific they are horrific if these allegations prove true so we are doing our best the serious individuals working on this program are we're doing the hard work to try to make things right and we have somebody who's a state representative who decided he says I was there immediately when I found out well he found out at the first of the month and it was three weeks later when he had his appointment with the oja but what did he do do the day before he met he issues his Manifesto then meets with oja before he even finds out the real facts they gave him some ideas of things to follow up on they never heard from him again he just got his political talking points and that's what he wanted that is okay so I I told every candidate before we got started if there were some things that were said about them that they get a chance to respond I'm going to try to be very fair in my time here 30 more seconds and I 30 to you representative yeah yeah I mean that's what I would expect for somebody who's a name defendant in a lawsuit that said they per they perpetuated the environment where that happened yeah I did I did have some time in between but I can tell you if it was 3 weeks that is a lot shorter than two years and so so the end of the day end of the day you can say whatever you want to about me coming late to the party or anything like that the fact is you knew that there were problems in 2022 and 2023 and now even today there are still things coming out of that Center and you're now saying it's okay it's not Karen it's not okay it is not okay thank you very much Mr Van Norman I want to give you 30 more seconds maybe 20 no I'll I'll defer to the next you're good okay then commissioner I want to come back to you I gave him some more time close us out 15 seconds all right I have been in the facility I was in there Monday oja has been in there just about every single day and we are getting good reports we're moving the needle and I look forward to getting an equilibrium back in this facility and hopefully turning it back over to the district judges and a judge who will want to do the job thank you very much Aaron you have the final question of round three for representative Nicholls at the Tulsa World Forum last week you were asked to identify key accomplishments within your legislative record you responded that people should look at all of your record so we did take a look at your voting record this year and we noticed you had the third highest percentage of Mis votes according to legis okay a bill Tracking Company you missed 36% of house floor votes what do you say to voters who worry you might seek an even higher office and be absent one third time as your mayor yeah no it's it's a great question there's two things a uh one uh I was running this campaign but also I have a whole other job at strive together and the fact is there's a lot of times in the legislature we have a lot of votes there may be a day where you have 80 votes for example and if you miss a day on an 80 vote day there's a lot that comes through but what I want to make sure that people understand is when you're a state representative unlike a county commissioner you don't have a chief Deputy to go vote for you if you're not there uh and so yes I'm glad that accountability is there and certainly uh like many of my colleagues we miss votes from time to time but it's not because I'm out doing something that's fun and all that kind of stuff I'm every day representing people whether it be as a state representative whether it be on the campaign Trail i' rather it be in my role that strive together we're working every day to put four million kids in this country on on a road to economic Mobility Mr Van Norman you were a late entry into this race so what have you had to balance while campaigning uh well I still have a few part-time jobs as well I'm a professor at Liberty University's online program I have a legal uh I have a client and I'm also on the board of a public fund so I've had to balance those things as well as well being out on the campaign Trail I think you do have to prioritize being there to let your voice be known and vote I think that's probably one of the highest callings that you have as an elected official and if you're missing time there you better have a really good reason for not being there commissioner Keith your thoughts well I've been a county commissioner and been trying to keep the wheels on for that job as well as going out into the community and talking and listening to individuals who have had issues and what are their ideas how do we fix it and I have a group of developers who are working with me and I've told them this committee will be coming together shortly I've said look you can bring your complaints but you must also bring some solutions so we can work together to fix the issues that they have with permitting so I've been very very busy I will admit that but I tell you most of it has been exhilarating because I love meeting people where they are finding out what their issues are and working with them uh to make things better and representative Nichols 30 more seconds to close sure sure you know I guess I'll end with this um you know uh and and when I was at the legislature this year let's talk about the time that I was there which uh one thing I did was co-author the bill to Pro to bring the levy funding here to Tulsa the $50 million another thing I did was coauthor the bill to improve retirement for police officers uh another thing I did was work to as a co-author of the pive survivors act so I spent my time in Oklahoma City really really well I look forward to spending my time really really well in the mayor's office as well commissioner Keith you're asking for 15 seconds I don't know if I'm going to regret it but I'll give it to you yeah very quickly I do appreciate that uh representative Nichols came out and walked the levy and tried to understand what was going on there but when the vote came out of committee he did what's called walk the vote and it concerned me for a minute but um I'm just saying I got to give you 15 seconds in response representative uh with my 15 seconds I'm going to say the commissioner Keith does not know how the legislature works I did not walk a vote on a bill that I was a co-author on doesn't happen that way thanks here well thank you very much that concludes our final round of questions let's give the candidates a round of applause yeah Round of Applause there we go we still have closing statements it's a good time for me to mention that our friends at the frontier will be helping now nonoc and kgr with fact checks post debate so we'll try to find out what's going on uh closing statements two minutes to each of you same order as before Mr Van Norman two minutes to close for you well again thank you for being here tonight I think you've had an opportunity to hear here the vision we have for this community and uh the ways in which we're going to try to solve them I would suggest that both of my opponents here believe the way to solve most of these problems is by growing government by adding departments by increasing costs and uh what I would refer to as maybe a bloated government my idea is much different than that I believe in the free market system I believe in streamline government that serves you and doesn't smother you a few uh weeks ago when I announced my campaign my grandson six-year-old grandson Wolfie asked me Papa why you running for mayor I said buddy it's because I want you to love growing up in Tulsa I want you to love it so much that you decide to stay here and raise your family here I think that's something probably all of this in this room can identify with that we want to have a legacy in Tulsa but remember that the mayor of Tulsa is the CEO of the city and so I'm going to end today in much the same way I began by asking you a question let's say that you are responsible or own a business that has a billion dollars of Revenue a year that has over 3,500 employees and your task is to find the next CEO of the city or of the of the business who would you trust to lead it would you trust a seasoned professional that's had over 40 years of business experience that's meaningful and that's real world or would you trust a democratic politician those are the choices in this upcoming election the way you answer that question through your vote on August 27th will Define TL Tulsa's future Choose Wisely my friends thank you very much Mr Van Norman commissioner Keith you have two minutes to close or would you want somebody who has experience doesn't need training wheels to find her way around I will tell you this I am so so proud to call Tulsa home and I have the experience to hit the ground running I have relationships with a lot of people and relationships matter when you want to move the needle the city counselors tribal leaders the County Commissioners and our Chamber of Commerce I want to build upon this administration's successes but I have my own ideas and I look forward to moving our city forward there are some projects that we need we need a new convention hotel we lose business every single solitary day because we are turning away business that would love to come here because of all the amazing things that we have you can find out a whole lot more about me if you want to go to karen. org and of course you can call or text me because half of the people in this city and county have my cell phone number and I am there for you and I look forward to working with all of you because as tson we know how to work together and get things done and I want to know what you think is the next greatest thing for our city and I want to work with you to make that happen thank you so much thank you very much commissioner and the final two-minute closing statement representative Nichols yeah thank you and thank you everybody who helped put this on tonight and thank you all for being here and certainly the the folks that are watching watching at home look when I started this campaign as I said before we started talking about issues and we've talked about issues the entire time uh I do have the experience to run this city as mayor I have the education run the city as mayor too I have a masters in public administration the only person on the stage that has one uh but I have the experience I have the experience and I proved it over and over and over again and if we just think about the contrast in this race uh so far we've been all running for a while I've almost been running for as long as Brent's been in town uh but we've been we've been running for a while we've been running for a while and what do we know so far about the C the candidates in this race we have one that's a named defended in a federal lawsuit we have one who may think that you have to be Christian to be an elected official uh and then you got one that's only talked about issues the entire time now I think that I'm going to say right now I think that both Brent and Karen are good people who love this community and you you you couldn't convince me otherwise but we're talking about who's going to serve as mayor and we have a person who is great but not been here long long enough to fully understand the issues we have somebody else who's been in the office double the amount of time that I've been in office who's come to maybe just admire those challenges that we have we have to elect a mayor who's ready to meet them as soon as they get into office and I'm ready to meet them it's been said today that putting things on paper don't matter putting things on paper is about accountability putting things on paper is making a commitment coming up at a debate and trying to think of things that you can say for folks they'll clap for you is not how you run a city you run a city with a plan and a vision and if you elect me we're going to go and win the next decade and put Tulsa on the Move thank you all so much for being here tonight thank you very much give each of the candidates a round of applause remember to vote on August 27th thank you so much to the Tulsa Regional Chamber thank you all for believing in public debates thank you to our fabulous staff at canes tip your dang bartender if you have any class it doesn't cost a lot and stick around we've got a surprise snake and the Charmers a band in about 10 or 15 minutes thank you all good night thank you e for