Rob McElhenney on dreaming big vs. tempering expectations with Wrexham AFC

Intro one of the really fun aspects of the documentary is that we have a record of my relationship with Ryan you're saying that even though he cut your scenes out of Deadpool and Wolverine yeah I've got something planned for him don't worry about that my guest today is an impossibly talented gent who's co-created both It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Mythic Quest where he plays Iron grim a character who answers a lifelong question what happens if you combine the innovation of Steve Jobs with the self-confidence of Sam allise but the reason he's here to stoke C Brew coffe it up with me is that now almost four years ago time goes fast he joined forces with the greatest Canadian since Jesse Marsh that would be Ryan Reynolds to buy rexam AFC then a sleeping giant in the National League not only did they Remain the two of them the second most handsome club Owners behind Arsenal Stan Kony but their tenacious Welsh team has won backto back promotions for the first time in the entire span of human history and has scaled the football pyramid back to League one for the first time in 19 trauma filled years it is a joy to welcome back once again it's Rob Mel Henny hey Raj how are you great to be back it's an incredible time to be speaking to you we'll talk about the football in one moment but you're busier than The Bookies taking bets that nol and Liam will have at least one Fist Fight Before The Oasis reunion you're currently writing the 17th season of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia you just filmed a fourth season a Mythic Quest you've launched a whiskey brand started a company more better you also have rexam a football club who are back in League one for the first time since 2005 I've got to know what is the secret to balancing it all great partnership uh in almost all of the things that you just named uh I have partnered with people who Elevate me exponentially and that's really the the key to all of it I have so many people that I can link arms with and and Forge through these Endeavors the most recent season of Welcome to rexam covered the team's promotion from League two to League one first back-to-back promotion in the 159 year history of The Grand Club for the second summer in a row rexam started August in a new league with a new challenge lying ahead Rob how did you get your head around the unique challenges of League one how do you explain them to those around you in LA in your own words yeah once again it's just uh turning to my left to my to my right and and asking uh lots of questions and and having more questions and we have answers and it's funny when you when you listen interestingly enough um you start to learn and understand and grow and and and and know all the things that you didn't know before so with each season uh Comes A new challenge certainly and so it's just about partnering with the right people and asking the right questions but this year we've been fortunate this is our best start which we did not expect we did not expect that we we look we go we go into every season you know in the same way we go into any any Endeavor which is assuming that if we put the work in we we'll at least have an opportunity to compete and last season we felt really confident going into League 2 and we got hammered I mean blistered on the first day and we got welcomed into the league uh in Grand style um by uh MK Dons and this season um where our expectations I wouldn't say they're lower but they're tempered with reality and we have been off to an incredible start let's talk about that Journey rexim made a number How Rob convinced Arthur Okonkwo to sign of signings this summer it's really bulking season you've had a Defender Seb Revan Center back Dan scar midfielder Ole Rathbone in from rodom bringing him in broke Rex's transfer record previously held by Ole Palmer who was expensive because he came shirtless and I think this clearly means OE Watkins is possibly coming next summer but you also signed a remarkable human being Arthur okono on a permanent deal finally that remarkable 22y old goalkeeper bringing him in from Arsenal to The Stoke coas after last season's loan and Rob I'm fascinated by this because you've been the person on the phone who has often called these players out you've sold them on the vision of what you're building in North Wales you've told them what they can be part of you famously talk Phil Parkinson the manager into coming to rexam then in the National League two levels below the club he'd most recently work with um you don't have to give us the specifics but like a conqu how did you do it how do you present your vision to them uh well I had a very long conversation with arur very quickly uh after the season was over sometime in May a after the season was over all the players uh they only have a few weeks off so uh they scattered to the wind very quickly and he was on vacation with his family and I just asked if I could speak with him and I W up speaking with him for a couple hours because we we also have the benefit of of Arthur uh signing with us last year so he spent a good amount of time in rexam so it was less about uh telling him all of the things that we were going to do because he saw them in action it was more encouraging him to speak to the other players and to fill and to asked them are we putting our our money where our mouth is or are we uh just blowing hot air and thankfully after uh speaking with me for quite a while and and I kind of laid out for him how I saw this year going or the next few years going that would be different from what he's already seen I implored him to speak to to the players and to see what their experience has been like and and and thankfully within 24 hours he signed I mean I speak to a lot of footballers Rob um and many of them divide the world into what they call football people and and then the rest of us nonf football people and you are a non-f football person who has become very quickly a singular kind of football person so how do you make them believe in it what's the secret we this was always a mission of ours and I think this is just a function of being on the other side of the camera um I've essentially always been uh a contractor or a day player or labor for uh lack of a better termin although I think if I spoke to any of my uh Roofing friends in Philadelphia and called myself a laborer they would punch me in in my face and rightfully so um that said I'm a member of six unions um so I am a union member and so yes I'm always straddling the fence of worker and uh management because I'm a producer as well uh but I've always always sided with uh with labor and so when I when we got into this uh project in the first place I I I'm I'm friends with a lot more athletes than I am uh management or owners and I would always ask them from their perspective what were their owners doing right and what what were they doing wrong um so I I would say that we are a player first organization uh but we're certainly a Community First organization but as far as the team goes we're a player first organization and that that doesn't that's not just a mandate for me that comes from Phil as well and you see with the team that he's assembled he has get get your beep button ready uh but he has a rule which is no holes no and or sorry you know what it is more specifically I'm going to use another word no heads there you go that's that's the British translation sorry that's the big one that's that's the one Ben Foster would say that all the time he he was astonished how he would walk into the locker room and there were no in his words Nos and that's by way Phil Phil would never say noads cuz it wouldn't without the wording attached it just cannot be Phil Parkinson yeah it's funny uh you know think that people have a different idea of who Phil is based on the way he's portrayed in the documentary and I I go to pays to say that I I don't know that person I only see him in the documentary footage because when you speak with him in person he is not like that at all as you well know but he just has a different way of motivating his players he knows the players so well and he knows how to speak with them and what works with them God I don't know that person I adore that I think Phil doesn't know that person and that genuinely is the remarkable uh Testament to the cruiser bow that is a footballing locker room but this has been a time of change at Wrexham’s new captain the end of last season Rex's two long serving captains Luke Young and the truly great Ben toza both left the club the arm band has since gone to James McLean what a bloke join rexim last summer has become an instant fan favorite in the Stoke end the old Teek end a proud ferocious Irish fist of a footballer takes an immense Delight in the wind up of 35 years old has convinced me that getting booed by your opponent is ultimately the secret to Eternal youth Rob what did you see in him what does he bring to this team and and what do you think made Phil feel like he was the right choice to become the new captain yeah well first of all as far as what we saw in him um we listen to Phil and in Phil We Trust if if Phil says he wants to sign a player then we have full faith and trust in him we ask very few questions um about that if if there's something he wants to go after then we go after them um with everything we can but I took an instant liking to James he just reminds me of so many people that I grew up with a staunch Irish Catholic um neighborhood in South Philadelphia and so I just saw a lot of people I know reflected in him and I think he brings a lot of fun to to the sport um I think people take it tend to take it a little too seriously and I get and I do understand when it gets into social politics it's a little bit dicey however in terms of the way he Riles up uh fans I just think it's a part of the fun you know as long as that does not extend into the parking lot or outside of the uh of the football grounds I just think it's a it's a bit of fun I watched the opening game at The Stoke Kass in The Stoke end and the fans do seem to utterly adore him I only wish we knew more about how he felt about the Royal Family [Applause] [Laughter] he makes things abundantly clear although he respectfully declines instead of uh using the choice words that I know he'd like to uh he'd like to use that chant I could not get out of my mind for about a week afterwards I am I Rob and Ryan designing kits have to say a big fan of rexam kits this season all three of them have got a Dragon s theme like selections from the targaryan collection and on the back collar there's a beautiful small tribute to the 266 victims of the gresford cery disaster which is about to be um honored and memorialized uh in a couple of weeks time at The Stoke cow Rass and Rob I know that you're into design your black Rex and snapback hat Remains the best combination of South Philly in North Wales and at least until a WWA opens at the Eagles Meadow Shopping Center can you tell us story behind the gold third kit how that came to be how involved are you in that aspect of the club Ryan and I are very involved in that uh I'm sure it's no no surprise no surprise because we can't really get our fingers nor should we uh in in player selection or formation or anything like that and even just the the overall logist Logistics of running the club we trust other people to do that however when it comes to the Kats we get very very involved and luckily again we have a an incredible team who brings us uh options Sean usually Sean Harvey usually spearheads that with with uh with Humphrey and they come to us with a few different ideas or designs and then we we go through and select them the one thing that Ryan and I insisted upon and this was after having seen the Beckham documentary we both watched that the weekend it came out um and we wanted to get a long sleeve version of every shirt and we wanted it to be a little bit loose and billowy in that look from uh from the the '90s that that Beckham and all the the players all the clubs seem to wear those throughout that decade we wanted to have something like that so uh I think very soon all three kits are going to be available in the in the long sleeves God oie Palmer's going to get that bowy shirt tailored but hear me out next season third shirt that is a that unique shade of red that the turf owner Wayne Jones Goes when he's topless in California wow I actually felt like we were doing a lot of that when went to Las Vegas um with the club Caitlyn and I travel with the club and we went to the pool and I was these are very responsible young men however and and they treated everybody with the utmost respect and yes they were drinking but it wasn't crazy but the the the most dangerous Behavior was a group of people from Western Europe uh who do not have the skin to go out into the desert of Las Vegas and sit by a pool for 6 hours we're not wearing sunscreen so Kaitlin and I felt like Mom and Dad just spraying these guys down or like forcing them to wear sunscreen obviously in North Wales you're not getting a ton of the same kind of sun that you see in Las Vegas so of course Wayne comes over here and no matter how much we warned him he just did not put on sunblock and he went to the beach and he thought well I think I'll be fine and he just roasted himself like a lobster I couldn't tell if on that photograph of you and him I couldn't tell Rob whether down this side there's like a little white Mark where he's got something I couldn't tell whether it was a thong Mark or he had a fanny pack on I have no idea I don't think I want it I noticed it too and I just I decided not to ask the question because I I I think it's more fun for my imagination to run free on that one I I like both options uh to be can I like to think of Wayne with sunbathing just in a thong with a fanny back Wayne get back to us on that one and God bless I can't wait for Rex's shirt sponsor next season to be like banana boat sunscreen uh it's a massive opportunity for all you sunscreen Brands watching always be selling going into this season into League one you've mentioned him Phil Pinon he said quote you've got to aim to “They believe they can win the league” be at the top because if you aim for the middle you can end up in the bottom which fun enough is also my approach to public bathrooms but Humphrey Carr you incredible executive director what a remarkable human being he is he spent the weeks running into the season and I spoke to him about about this he told me he told everyone who'd listen he told Fearless in devotion at a live show he said Rex's first objective this season was to just establish itself as a league one Club talked a lot this phrase season of consolidation season of consolidation where some of the focus would go towards developing the club's infrastructure the academy you know building out the stadium getting it ready for that next push because despite promotions and its arrival in League one this Club is is it's a little bit like Tom Hanks in big still where it seems to have almost grown up overnight do you feel any of that uh we talk about it all the time uh the marathon versus the Sprint our our main goal um even though we talk about promotion all the time but our main goal is to build a sustainable club we we we want to build a sustainable club that um that will exist for generations and so to do that you always run the risk of scaling too fast that said I just don't think I have it in my blood I don't think I have it in my genetics to slow down and to just simply invest in a midling club I I I want to go out and win every single match and luckily the players feel the same way so it's really funny to to listen to all the prognosticators and and and Vegas all the odds makers and and all the sports talk people who really had us about mid-table um and everybody I'd talk to even supporters would say that they would be very very very happy with squeaking into the playoffs that would be considered a win and I think it's always good to under promise and overd deliver that said I just can't help it when I really engage in in either a mental model of what the club uh is going to be this year or even just a conversation with a supporter I I don't know how else to go out but to try and win and fortunately enough that the players do not listen to any of the prognosticators or the supporters or or their family members they go out and win and they believe that they can win they believe they can win the league when you talking about the prognostic ages you mean Humphrey car I mean there is the there is the emotional and the rational because we shot in and around the turf um ahead of the first day I've got to say Humphrey did a bloody good job because before kickoff everyone I was like what are you expecting this season and Rob everyone was like consolidation consol I'll take a season of consolidation season I mean he really he did a job mentally sewing that notion in and then just 9 minutes into that first game against Wickham Max cleworth slap one into the net put rexim on piece to score a modest 460 goals a season and for all the fans around me I'm going to say just looking around that the stook end the tech end all thoughts of consolidation just vanished like that I mean it was hilarious just like f consolidation we're going to win the bloody League what were your own expectations on day one honestly and as you said earlier it has been a strong start to the season and beating in Rex's first four games including holding Bolton the team op to predicted would win the league to a nil-nil drw uh I've been told often um mostly by humfrey that I engage in uh irrational thinking as opposed to rational thinking I like to believe it's magical thinking because that has a nicer ring to it uh but ultimately it's just optimism it's just optimism I never understand going out and assuming the worst or going out and assuming mediocrity if we're going to compete in this league let's compete in the league and so we had a we had a meeting sometime in June which you will see in the documentary where we are posed with a question uh our new CEO Michael Williamson uh and Sean and our entire executive team got together and we were we were left with two options essentially one which is invest in infrastructure and go for the marathon uh or two go for it all and try to win the league and invest in infrastructure and we chose we chose B uh very quickly then they told us how much it would cost and then we we slowed down our conversation a little bit but we came to the same we came to the same place which is let's go all in and try to win this league God by the way if this is the only thing young listeners you take from this podcast um it would be that delusion be deluded don't dream be deluded and then call it magical thinking that is I think Rob's gift to the world and I'm going to live to my dying day by that Creed you were actually there for the season opener with your family you spoke to the team uh in the dressing room the locker room before they took the field Rob what did you tell them not just about that day but about all there is to come did you go Kenneth Brer on them no no um we left we leave that to Phil we we do not spend any any time in the locker room before the games uh we we won't go in at halftime we only go after the game and we we go into the locker room win or lose uh to either celebrate or console or to be at least just to to let the players know that we're supporting them and they're not alone and that we're all in this together in terms of speaking to the players we wait till after the the the match and then even when we go in there we just listen to them because they're uh at least recently they've been so excited at the end of the games in terms of speaking to family friends supporters yeah we always try to temper um success or failure uh with optimistic rationale uh which is that we we are really excited about where we are really excited about where we can get to and we're going to get to that place win or lose uh in in the immediate we're going to find wins and even if there's a little bit of Peaks and valleys and and and there always are we believe that we're trending up and we'll continue on that trajectory for for the next decade at least I mean football sports it's one of the reasons I adore it CU it is a Wracked with anxiety refraction of life and as you say it is a Peaks and Valley experience and sever years ago I think it was Ryan Reynolds who interviewed you for Men's Health Magazine you said something that I've thought about a lot since then rob you told him that when you're filming one of your TV shows you said between the words action and cut you quote don't feel any physical pain or any emotional pain because it's one of the few places where you feel present and settled in the here and now and when I think about that it it's how I feel watching Everton football club Rob do you experience that reom games can you stay in the moment there when you're at the Stoke K Rass or when you're watching their games at home in a way you can't in other places in your life I certainly stay present however it's not as enjoyable as an experience because you know and any football fan knows unlike any sport I can think of uh possibly boxing or MMA where things can change uh in the blink of an eye the experience of watching a football game is is racked with anxiety and nerves and excitement and it's all building up inside of you because the release you know with American football basketball hockey there's a little bit more of a release throughout the game in American football even within a first first down a few couple of first downs you can release you can get excited you can turn to the person next to you and clap and hug and give high fives and you score a touchdown and there's a release and then it goes to Commercial and you turn to the people next to you and you have a conversation anybody who watches football knows that that does not exist maybe after a goal but even after a goal immediately you're racked with the the potential for the other team to score and that can happen within seconds so you feel excitement through the entire experience but you never feel a sense of peace until after the game is over does the pressure ratchet up the higher up the league you go um I don't think so I I actually was I had an interesting phenomenon um occur last year when I came out to the Stockport game at the end of the season because it was meaningless and that was the excitement around it which was oh this game doesn't really matter and actually it happens also in the summer tour games as well you tell yourself the game doesn't matter because it doesn't really and yet you can't help it uh you put so much value into the success or failure of each individual game that they all feel like they're a cup final to me every game feels like a cup final two other the things that you and Ryan have done Maintaining Wrexham’s community so well um some of you actually pledged to do in your original mission statement are to quote reinforce the values traditions and Legacy of this community uh and to reward the faith of the supporters two goals which can take many forms including supporting local causes all the way through to donating I was in rexam and I spent time with Steve tap tappy the Beloved owner of the quite incredible reom trainer Revival and after his store is burglarized you guys stepping in to help or just encouraging the relationships between the club The Players the fans and as rexam continues to grow as a club as a town as a global phenomenon and to keep climbing that football pyramid have you thought about the challeng of of maintaining those connections you Premier League players don't don't walk through the parking lot like that Vibe you currently have just taking selfies with with supporters with all the patients in the world no I'm not concerned about that because it's not something that we're putting on uh for show or as a means to an end it's something that we truly enjoy it's it's one of the joys of the experience as opposed to it feeling or seeming like uh it's a responsibility that we must do we at it as an opportunity to do something we want to do I talked to Elliot Lee and his dad uh at our promotion party last year Rob and we were having a conversation over a couple of years um uh at the scent in in the race course and Elliot was saying that he had only met one other owner or chairman of the of any club he'd ever worked for and Rob said he he didn't meet any over the course of his career or very few and I I asked them why that was and they said well the owners don't seem to care that much or they don't really come to the games or they don't really pay attention no obviously that's not all owners but many of them do and I I don't understand that I I don't know why are you doing it why why would you want to invest into a club and into an experience that you don't really care about that much I I I look at this not as a economic responsibility but as a as an opportunity to to do something that is just pure enjoyment and joy well one of the most unbelievable parts of this story Remains the fact that you and Ryan Rob’s relationship with Ryan now Reynolds had never met each other in person before you brought this football club together how has your relationship evolved as you've celebrated these Joys the successes on the field the club getting promoted and just the the energy in that town the fortunes the futures of the entire Community changing as as rexam AFC rise one of the really fun aspects of the documentary is that we have a a record of that of my relationship with Ryan certainly um our entire experience has been documented so I can go back and watch season one or even footage from That season and see uh as our relationship continues to evolve we started the conversation talking about Phil and the players and then Humphrey and if you notice there is a very there is a very common through line um through our entire experience I think we we we believe that one of our responsibilities is to create and Foster a culture uh that we believe starts from the top down and we hold that sacros because we can't affect any real change in the locker room or on the pitch maybe we can do so with kits and merchandise and things like that but ultimately that's inconsequential what what winds up being consequential is is the culture that we can uh help to Foster and that is uh just kind of the people that we are what do we value the things that we think are important and then we hire people based on that who they are and of course what they can accomplish but we found in our experience uh in in an industry that is sort of famous for having Shifty characters and the assumption is well you have to have a certain kind of dark personality to be successful in the Arts or or business or whatever it might be and that's has not been our experience we've we've been so fortunate to partner with people who uh who believe you can be a good kind person uh who could admit when they're wrong and listen and try to grow and understand and also be a killer in business and be a killer on the pitch we believe all of those things can be true at the same time you're saying that even though he cut your scenes out of Deadpool and Wolverine yeah I've got something planned for him don't worry about that Rob last question for you no remember one more four years it's incredible actually saying that um I said in introduction time has gone so fast has it gone fast for you by the way or slowly it's flown by it's flown by it's a I can't imagine I mean tomorrow I'm so excited I still get so excited for the games because we have our our little ritual my my son uh both my sons but my eldest son specifically we have a very specific ritual every Saturday morning and it feels like it was just yesterday when we were when we were waking up and watching those initial games and I went back and saw some of the footage CU someone put it up online of us watching the game and he is a different person he is a he is a a baby essentially you know was in the life of a he's now 14 and when we started he was uh 9 and a half turning 10 so as anybody knows who has kids a 9-year-old and a 14-year-old look vastly different so I've been sort of marking time through him and this actually this is so this was a gift that Caitlyn got me every game I every game I take a little piece of the turf the pitch with me and I just put it in my pocket so uh this marks all of the uh special games so most recently League one promotion rexim 6 forest green zero April 13th 2024 and I I actually wasn't there for that game because we weren't sure that that was going to be the Clincher so I had Humphrey grab me a bunch of grass and he put it in a plastic bag for me every other game I've been to and it goes all the way back to our first home win rexam 5 Maidstone zero August 20th 2022 that's this one here that is incredible i' say the the rert brook poem um to paraphrase there is some corner of a foreign field that is forever North Wales that is beautiful a little bit of North Wales in California and I mean by the way your son when he makes his debut for Everton as their Striker he 18 when they're in League 2 he's going to have a whole document of his footballing journey and it's going to be magnificent and I cannot wait for that moment but in that Saying goodbye four years that four years of of dreams that four years of I mean you you called it Peaks and valleys uh far more Peaks so far than the latter what have you learned about yourself Rob in those past four years how's this journey and being part of it changed you well it's interesting that you said it's mostly Peaks because I can see how that may seem to be the case from the outside but that's only assuming that the Peaks are uh are wins on the pitch and yes that is that is invariably true that winning on the pitch is of Paramount importance but some of those valleys are more personal one thing that I was not prepared for uh was how difficult it is to say goodbye to players because one of the downsides one of the very few downsides of becoming so personally close with the players is that you have to say goodbye to everybody at some point you know ultimately that's a metaphor for life in general which is that people come and people go uh but when you when you put so much value on the relationships that you have with people to say goodbye is very difficult so uh we've had so many valleys along the way in so far as you we started the conversation talking about toer and Luke young uh who's my favorite player Luke young uh and I was very public in stating that and that's not a slight to the other players I just loved Luke I love he was our longest tenure player he was with us from the very beginning so to say goodbye to him was devastating devastating and I got very close with Khloe his wife and his children and I still speak with him I check in with both of them I check in with a lot of the players that have left because it's uh legitimately emotionally painful to say to say goodbye to them so to answer your question I think I've learned for as fun as uh the experience of of being the chairman of this club is it can also be really really hard uh to say goodbye Rob Mel Henny there is so much life truth in what we have discussed I will say my dad passed away recently um and to pull that together of all the football world I heard most from Rex and players in that moment and it is a remarkable Testament to you know the truth of the club as a caring nourishing deeply personal place I'm here in Chicago I cannot wait uh to get back to North Wales and Sample the journey ahead to you uh to your family uh to your Club to everything that you are doing uh in North Wales I raise uh my Stoke to you rob thank you mate thanks for having me back Raj hope I'll see you soon courage