The Skinny Podcast: Ja'Marr Chase drama

start with the Bengals and before we actually get into the season breakdown or preview or what have you we've got to talk some more about Jamar Chase of course he was back until until he wasn't anymore a day later the Bengals wide receiver practiced early in the week but then was back to sitting out on Wednesday he strolled in about 15 minutes late wearing street clothes to practice and that was just a day after Zack Taylor had said he was going to continue to practice and play in week one so at this point skinny where are we at with Jamal Chase um for starters I think way way way too much was made of him practicing on Sunday and Monday those two practices were closed to the media we don't know what he did um somebody from the team gave information to an nfl.com reporter Tom pelis who tweeted out that he's practicing there were there was a picture of him catching a pass in in uniform and helmet um that might have been the only thing he did for all I know I'm gonna guess it was a little more than that but but it wasn't really a practice either that's everybody took this and ran with like he's back those two weren't practices you know why they weren't really practices Rick because cut down day was coming Tuesday and you weren't going to afford a a guy that you're going to cut to get hurt in one of those two practices they were basically walkthroughs and what I understand is Jamar did um participate in those um he he wants to if things go according to hoil and he gets the contract extension at least not fall too far behind so those were a good two days to do that but it wasn't like he was back you know with people covering him and and and you know running routes against physical contact so everybody took that way way too far now I think Zack though thought all right he's back I you know he's gonna practice um and he even admitted then yesterday put his foot in his mouth and probably spoke too soon so I I think what happened unfortunately for Zach yesterday with Jamar doing what he did is it really did make Zack Taylor look like a fool and that's unfortunate because Zach has really had his back the whole entire process as much as he can have it yeah we we finally hit the guys what do you want from me poor of the program with Zack Taylor when when he said uh basically he was just like every day's a new day right I mean to to me that was just him throwing his hands up going guys what do you want me to do at this point like right you you knew what I knew he was back I thought he was going to be practicing all week he's not anymore he's doing his own thing obviously this is not what I want but uh what am I going to do he's one of our best players my my question is should someone else speak up to take the heat off of Zack Taylor I've heard that from some people saying like where's the front office why aren't they saying anything skinny what's your take on that should someone else be speaking out here I mean you don't have a general manager there's the problem I mean Duke Tobin is director of player personnel and his role is um you know trying to trying to get players on the club and trying to evaluate talent um he's not a contract negotiator the Brown family never is going to talk in these circumstances so you're not going to get them so you don't have that buffer and that is where Zach takes the bullet there there's been times um over the years where there's been a roster move or something or or a question that will come up that that should be asked of a general manager and he will literally answer it with that's a question for Duke and we've told him listen we don't get to talk to Duke but a couple times a year and maybe in this circumstance there does need to be a buffer Rick and I I don't know what the answer is because they just don't have that person on staff and and I also realize that to some extent there may be uh like the Bengals front office doesn't want to be talking right now that's part of the negotiation that's going on it's better if they don't say anything maybe but it does feel like Zack Taylor is in a difficult position right now and I think he handles these situations really well like I think he's done as well as he could really do playing both sides of it not really upsetting anyone while also being fairly uh reasonable with the fan base and the media G trying to give you guys legitimate answers to your questions that are just coming day after day the same questions he knows what he's going to get asked it's exasperating but he does a good job of handling those situations um one thing that stuck out to me was when he was asked if he and Jamar are talking every day he said I'll keep that between me and Jamar what would I mean is that should we read into that or is that just like I'm not going to put any of our conversations out there period yeah I I I think it's more the latter but I would have thought that he talked to Jamar on Sunday and Monday and had a feel for where the direction was heading in my opinion I mean I he I don't think he would have said to us what he said on Tuesday um and then I asked him point blank on Tuesday will he play in the regular season opener yes yesterday I literally asked him the same exact question and I got a I got a a Camala Harris word salad I mean I it was truly a non-answer answerers we're still working the plan and this is the latter portion of the plan what does that even mean I don't even know what that means but that wasn't as definitive as the yes of yesterday was it yeah and that's where I mean like you said you want to believe oh he's just having this guy's back he's like I'm not going to put our conversations out there but when you have a clear miscommunication like he had or even worse a situation where if they were communicating and Jamar Chase just completely threw Zack under the bus and lied to him saying yeah I'm gonna be practicing I'm gonna play week one and then went back to not practicing and holding in then man that's that's tough that that would definitely suggest there's some type of I don't know if issue is the right term but there's definitely a level of uh you're over here and I'm over here doing my business to this relationship between Jamar Chase and Zack Taylor and uh I mean that definitely Stu stuck out to me when he said that now uh there there is the possibility I guess that Jamal just doesn't practice at all and then when they get out there to play the Patriots he's in uniform playe Zack Taylor did say he doesn't need to practice to play and be ready to go week one do you believe that's a possibility or where are you at with this right now I I believe it's a possibility and I've said it half jokingly that he could roll in at 5 till one um on that Sunday maybe that's the time he signs a contract and rolls out and balls out yeah I I I don't think he needs it would be nice I think it would be helpful but I don't think he needs it um but I also Taylor or Joe burrow care if he practices one second before that game kicks offre no right I think they care that he plays in that game and that's again I've talked this for a month now Rick and I'm still I'm gonna stick to my guns I don't think he plays without a deal I just don't shefer said that he felt it was a goodfaith gesture for Jamar to show up on Sunday and Monday and be quotee unquote back at practice maybe that's the case but did did it do more harm than good now for him to show up for those couple days or do you think this is leading us down the right path no I I I I think it was the good faith gesture of listen the media is not going to be there to see me do it um I do want to get some reps in just in case a contract does get done I want to show some good faith and I think that was part of it but I think the problem was everybody took this as like it was some formal practice it really wasn't I and I I keep wanting to reiterate that I literally told people on the beat Sunday when that story broke nationally I said I'm still not convinced practice is Wednesday and they're like oh come on I said I'm just telling you I I don't think this is a big deal because it's just him doing individual stuff doing some walkthrough stuff he did some of that stuff back in in mini camp um and it's just basically a time where he's doesn't want to make sure he doesn't fall all the way behind and so that's a great time to do it out of sight out of mind we don't see it we don't blow it into a big deal it did get blown into a big deal because somebody from the Bengals I don't know who that was leaked it to Tom peliso who puts it out there then we all come chasing our tales on it but I literally I talk handful of folks I said guys I'm not convinced I'm just not convinced he's practicing on Wednesday and lo and behold when I walked we walked in I said looked around for a minute we were all kind of quiet because I think we're all looking for the same thing I said I don't want to be that guy but I don't see him and they're like oh come on I said I don't see him I'm just telling you I said I'm an old man with old eyes you guys take a look where the receivers are and like kind of one by one like oh no oh no oh no oh no well then the great drama of all Rick because they they practiced the indoor facility right and and uh the team buses the players down from the stadium and two buses came and all the players were there and he wasn't on those buses obviously well then the third bus came and then the mystery was oh I bet he's on the third bus wasn't on the third bus either and then all of a sudden as the video we've seen on Twitter that Kelsey Conway took and some others took um he saers into practice about 15 minutes into it and I I thought that that almost looked like an Fu walk if there ever was one that's what I was thinking watch and again that's like okay I'm reading too much into this whatever but seeing that video of him sauntering into practice I literally used that word I said look at that is an absolute saunter if there was ever a saunter it was an Fu attitude about it the way it was like yeah I'm showing up 15 minutes late just because I can and this is what I'm doing right now it's like man after you just had those back-to-back days where you showed up if it was a good faith a show of good faith by showing up on Sunday and Monday then don't you think you're on time attentive and acting like you want to be a part of the team even if you're not going to participate on Wednesday yeah unless Zack Taylor was going to tell us after practice yeah actually he's a little nicked up or he's getting some treatment or it's fine it was cleared with us we we know what he's doing that's fine that wasn't the case Zack Taylor was caught off guard by the fact that Jamar Chase was not there on Wednesday by the fact that he showed up late on Wednesday and to me that was like the first time where this really felt like all right jamar's kind of being an about this and like he's he's starting to push this a little bit more into me me me type territory at this point I I mean I think he feels like that's the only way to get this contract done and and maybe it does maybe they maybe they still get it done I just I don't see them doing it right now and I listen I get it's hard to always get both sides right you always want to have the hot take of one side or the other I understand his point I do yeah you're making million dollars you want the the the the knowledge that hey um I'm guaranteed money even if I get hurt but the Bengals side is one too of this is why you have rookie contracts in the NFL you let players play on those rookie contracts um it allows you then to roster build around that it's usually the quarterback you're hoping is on the rookie deal and that was Joe burough for a handful of years um and at the same point in time I've said this a loud I'll say it aoud here I just don't I don't know why the wide receiver Market keeps getting reset and I'm I'm at the stage of I just don't know if I do it I I don't it's especially not now because here's the other thing if you're the Bengals let's just throw out CRA let's just throw out Justin Jefferson let's work off of his monies right 110 mil guaranteed $140 million what he can make let's work off those monies let's just say the Bengals cave and they pay it and Jamar Chase and I don't want this to happen Jamar Chase suffers a catastrophic injury in week five and never is the same they're on the hook for all that money when this year all they're on the hook for is a million dollars in base salary and so I understand their point too fans may not like to hear that I know you know F if you're a fanboy you certainly don't want to hear just pay the man well it's just not that easy folks yeah that seems to be the big piece of this puzzle that everyone is missing when they talk about it like the fact of the guaranteed money is it's guaranteed if something happens to him you're out that money now whereas right now you still got technically two years before you'd be having to give him those types of dollars so I completely get both sides of it and to this point I thought both sides had really done a good job of playing playing their business bus side out but also keeping amicable Mak being respectful making both sides look good and like Jamar showing up looking like he was invested in this I thought he was doing a pretty good job of being like yeah I want my contract but I'm also a part of the team and I'm really focused on winning all of a sudden things changed on Wednesday when he showed up to practice late like that he made Zack Taylor look like a fool I'm not saying that's not within his right but things are different now and now as a Bengals fan I think there is much more cause for concern all of a sudden yeah and I mean we're doing this on a on a Thursday morning in fact when I'm done with this podcast I'm driving straight to payor um and they practice um probably probably about 45 minutes after we finish this podcast get wrapped up uh they practice at 1:30 in the at I'm assuming at the indoor facility again today because of the heat he might be dressed for practice today for all I know I I mean to the point for all we know but again if this contract doesn't get done and I'm of the belief it doesn't it's just my opinion doesn't it could but I don't believe it does then what is he going to do and I think that's the answer to this and if it's that he caves and plays well I know that's great it's all well and good then but I go back to what did this all do other than piss everybody off in the end yep all right let's switch gears here kind of preview the season a bit we'll go through the schedule in a second but I got a couple questions you know we've broken down the position groups we've talked about a lot of different guys we talked about the battles and everything so we're not going to go through all of that again but just a couple of quick questions I had for you one give me a potential breakout player for this season a guy to watch that's not already on the radar that's like going to be a fun name early in the season to keep an eye on it's a name you already know and and he's going to get touches and we already knew that but I just think Chase Brown has a chance to have a great year I I I just think with his uh playmaking ability and if teams opt to to to play the Bengals the way they have in the last few years which is light boxes um you know getting him some touches in the in the pass game in the screen game felt like like I saw a ton more screen game in training camp than than I've SE seen in a in a long time um and I think they want to get his hands on the ball as much as possible I I think it's Chase Brown for me I think he has a chance to be really really really good I love that answer and I knew you weren't going to pick this guy but another guy I wanted to ask you about again because we talked about him after the first game we were kind of like well okay great you got a couple balls at the end there but like what have you really done to this point Germaine Burton ended up being the highest graded offensive rookie in all of preseason by Pro Football Focus his score was 86.1 if that does anything for you and we've talked about how much legitimacy to put into Pro Football Focus especially in preseason games but uh he did end up continuing to do a little bit more as the preseason went on even after that first game you saw him at training camp as well I still believe he's probably a little bit behind some of those other guys for that third receiver spot but has he has he done enough to show you that there's some potential there and you think he could make an impact at some point this season yeah I I think that but he he needs to get the trust of one Jill burrow I mean when Jill burrow calls you out after a preseason game that you need to get in your playbook more um I think that's very telling the fact that he got to your point late snaps in in in that first preseason game and then was one of those player I mean the third preseason game is usually for for a handful of guys trying to make the roster and then a bunch of guys who aren't going to make the roster he got thrown out there with with those guys too but I do think you saw the playmaking ability without question I think that's the nice thing that you saw is the one thing the dude can do is he can run um and you know for him now it's it's the nuances of playing receiver at the professional level and being a professional and maybe the nud nudging of a of a Joe burrow is enough to get him going uh but boy you don't get on the field a lot of times if you don't gain that dude's trust we've talked about all the positives all the reasons to be excited about this team give me your biggest concern going into the season I mean I I would go offensive line depth and and that's probably true for 20 25 teams in this league maybe even more maybe hell maybe all of them um well what's a bigger concern offensive line depth or defensive line dep no I'm going to go offensive line I still think the defensive line has enough and they're going to get pieces back within a month you know miles Murphy will be off IR McKinley Jackson just went on IR today um and and I would assume he comes off in four weeks uh as well so I I do think that that the defensive line depth will be fine I mean obviously they had to go out sign an edge guy just to have an extra body um in KJ Henry but listen this offensive line last year Rick stayed pretty damn healthy right I mean they they were a really healthy group and that just doesn't happen every year in the NFL it just doesn't so if Ted Carris gets hurt listen I know Matt Lee was the darling of camp and good for him for making the rosters a seventh round pick rookie but that's who you're going to entrust your offensive line to if if if Ted Carris gets hurt you know the guard depth I mean you know is Cody Ford able to still playing there um you know we've already seen amarius Mims get hurt and I don't think Trent Brown's going to get through the opener and play 100 snaps I just don't think his body is going to allow him to do that so somebody's going have to probably play some snaps there if it's not a Marius Mims and again that's probably true of a lot of teams but just coming off a year where they were healthy up front it's just I mean the law of averages catches up to you yeah you almost just feel like from a luck standpoint if nothing else you were lucky last year in that regard chances are this year it's not going to be that way so uh that definitely is a concern all right the Bengals win total for this upcoming season is 10 and a half once again same as last year we uh we know what the schedule is um do you need me to put it up on the screen here you want me to throw it up uh yeah it wouldn't hurt for the graphic I got it in my head because I've gone through it about a billion times in my head all right here let's uh let's share the screen and we will go through these games here all right starting with the uh Patriots week one obviously we said 10 and a half was the win total um skinny I I I think the way to look at this that we always kind of do is there are games you feel really good about them winning games you don't feel very good about them winning you think they're going to lose and then you've got your toss-up games is the way you usually put it obviously the Patriots I would assume fall into that likely win category how you see the the rest of this kind of going from there yeah that's the first month that I'm looking at right now um so let's go with the likely win likely loss and and then the tossup category and I'll tell you why I put a game in a tossup category game one is a likely win game two is a likely loss game three is a likely win win game four is a likely win even though it's on the road game five is a tossup you know why it's a tossup it's at home that helps you but the Raven swept you last year right so we're we're three one and one I'm going to put the the last number I give you is the toss-up category yeah and to be clear those were those were because not everyone's seeing this it's the Patriots the Chiefs is a loss commanders is a win the Panthers is a win and now the Ravens is a toss up at home I'm going to put the Giants as a toss up just because it's on the road so we're now 3-1 and two we go from there to the Browns on the road I'm going to put that in the likely loss category um so that gets us to three2 and two the Eagles game at home is a toss up in my opinion so we're at 3-2 and three the Raiders game's a win we're at 42 and three the Ravens on the road I'm putting in the likely loss category so we're at 43 and three the Chargers on the road is a toss up so we're 43 and four the Steelers at home I'm going to put in the win category because I just don't think Pittsburgh's going to be very good so I'm going to go to 53 and four Cowboys on the road is a toss up 53 and five Titans on the road is a tossup because it's on the road 53 and six Browns at home I'm going to put that in the win category because it is at home and they beat him last year I know it was in that wonky last game that didn't matter so we're at what 63 and five right no six three and six actually at the moment then the Broncos at home is a win at 73 and six and the Steelers on the road I'll put in the tossup category 73 and seven so if you can basically split the toss-up category maybe win one more than you lose that gets you to 11 wins I'm going to go 11 and six yeah so I mean there are seven teams in the NFL this year with an expected win total under seven games according to Vegas odds uh the Bengals play all seven of them that's the Giants Raiders commanders Titans Panthers Broncos and the Patriots first game of the season what what's the number they have to go in those games is it six and one five yeah and I always say this too when I write this because I have I'm write my prediction piece next week that'll include some of this stuff in it rick um every year that I've done this exercise where I try to predict the record put the likely wins likely losses toss up games every year a game in the likely win category turns into a loss remember when they played the Jets a couple of years ago and Mike White had the game of his life and every year there's a game I put in the likely loss category that turns into a win so those always balance themselves out so to Point yeah out of the seven games that of that probably six and one is what they should go and probably will go yeah so you go six and one then it puts you in a position basically where you got to play 500 ball in the other 10 games yep and if this team is a Super Bowl Contender like we've talked about and will obviously a season is weird it can it can be like a few years ago where they start slow and they lose a few games where they shouldn't and then they catch fire and they play great football at the end of the year and they still make the playoffs but if you're a team that is theoretically a real Contender for the Super Bowl in a given year here you got to play 500 ball in those 10 games I mean yes there are some very difficult games in there when you talk about the Chiefs the Eagles but there are also some winnable ones in there like you know I think at Dallas is a very winnable game even though it's on the road so um you beat the Chargers and maybe the Cowboys split the AFC North games you're at five and five right right and there you go there's you're to 11 wins without almost batting an eye yeah I just with Joe burrow in there I know like sometimes when you look at this and you're like the NFL you go game by game it's it's hard to pick a team to win 11 or 12 games but we've seen the Bengals with Joe burough healthy they that's what they do I mean they go on Long stretches where they just win a bunch of games in a row and let's go back to last season I mean even with the Joe burough injury issues at different points of the season and missing games at the end in all of those things and giving up so many big plays on defense playing a first place schedule they still went nine and8 even through all of that they still went n and eight eight yeah so I'm asking for a two game improvement against the last place schedule basically yeah I don't I I think 11 and 11 wins I'm probably short drifting him win I mean I could be easily convinced this team goes 12 and six 12 and five 13 and four is probably a stretch just because of you know who they do play and the fact of how tough North yeah exactly yeah um speaking of the AFC North what are your predictions for the division I I think the Bengals win it I think Baltimore be a new defense Ive coordinator some new bodies on defense uh I know the Derrick Henry Edition everybody's geeked by and they probably should be but I I'll say they're a playoff team I'll say Cleveland knocks on the door of the playoffs again and might be a second wild card team and I think Pittsburgh for the first time in Mike tomlin's era finally finishes under 500 yeah that'd be great to see I'm always amazed at what he does because I feel like his roster has not been good for years now I mean this whole quarterback situation just feels like it's an implosion ready to happen I hope so I'd love to see it be that way um Super Bowl prediction skinny you got one for us who you think is going to make it yeah I I'm it it there's some turmoil with the 49ers right now right with Trent Williams holding out and Brandon auk's contract issue but man that roster is so damn good and the the team that everybody's going to be Chic on obviously is Detroit and understandably so I think they're a really good team and they did some good things in the off season Philly's either gonna tank badly because of their internal strife or their roster so good they could compete but I'm G to go I'm going San Francisco over Kansas City I mean just it's it just feels like those are the two teams and it's and it's usually different right but it's it it feels like that's the case I will say this I would probably be more bullish on picking the Bengals to go to the Super Bowl again at least if they can get HomeField Advantage I know what they did a couple years ago going to Kansas City and all that but it I I think that's the big part for this year is can you get HomeField advantage and I think you have a chance to do that after last year I want nothing to do with picking the Bengals to win the Super Bowl and I want nothing to do with anyone else picking the Bengals to win the Super Bowl because that's all we heard this time of year last year and obviously we saw where that went um I'm going Chiefs and lions I think the Chiefs beat the lions like you said lions are a bit of a Chic pick right now but I hate I mean the NFC is just kind of ridiculous anyway so uh they're as good as anyone I guess the Chiefs until someone skinny they've been in four of the last five Super Bowls they've won and you know what's funny I I was doing some I had one Fantasy Football Draft I'm getting ready to do another tonight and I was just looking up some stuff you didn't have a I didn't realize he I didn't realize he didn't have as good a year last year as I as I thought because I always he's he's the arguably the best quarterback in football go look at Pat Mahomes numbers last year they weren't great and and you look back at some of their run they won with defense so to your point uh they find different ways to win it's not just Pat Mahomes slinging 45 touchdown passes well and that go back to the Bengals the year that they went to the Super Bowl everyone talks about Joe burrow and thinks back to like oh the Bengals were so magical when Joe burrow was healthy but that run was not Joe burrow throwing the ball all over the place and the Bengals putting up 40 points he had some incredible moments during that run and that's the same thing Pat Mahomes does when the game is on the line when you need that fourth quarter comeback those guys step up and they make those incredible plays that's why I'm not picking against Pat Mahomes until he no I'm with you and again they don't need Pat Mahomes to to do what he's done in years past and throw you 45 TDS he threw 27 last year and they still won a Super Bowl and they want it because he's still right to your point when you need him to make a big play makes a big play and they've added weapons to him too that that doesn't hurt either I mean he did it last year with his pedestrian a group of wide receivers as you could possibly have which is maybe another reason why you don't have to pay wide receivers top dollar I mentioned that I didn't want anything to do with picking the Bengals to win the Super Bowl but let me just throw this out there to you real quick Bengals odds to win the Super Bowl right now at fandle 12 to1 15 to one I like that that's a good price that's a good value skinny that's so I mean regardless of how you look at the NFL this year even you have a very pessimistic view of the Bengals they're what top five top six contenders yeah 30 to win 450 bucks that's that's worth a $30 play right I I feel like 15 to one's pretty good odds for a team that has I'm With You by almost anyone's estimations a fairly real chance at competing in the know right I'm with you uh yeah 15 to one that's rarely am I enticed by Super Bowl odds but 15 to1 for the Bengals feels pretty good if you want to put a flyer on that any other thoughts here on the NFL at large where the Bengals be I'm obviously we'll talk again next week before they play their first game but yeah no I it's it's it's almost upon us that's all I that's all I'm just glad the training camp portion of my life is over now I just have another week to deal with Jamar Chase can can I just say though like I hear the media types doing the whole like oh Jamar Chase wake me up when this is over this is this is so old like I love Mo show he does a great show but I heard him yesterday complain about that for like two segments of having to do the Jamar Chase thing what else would you guys be doing right now this is a gift from the football media you be talking about nothing during training camp instead you're talking about something that's very real and very interesting to every fan why would you not be like thank you Jamar Chase no I I I don't disagree with that on your point I just talk about just training camp in general it's just oh yeah no doubt and by the way I get asking the same questions every day like as a beat writer is old and talking about the same thing as a guy who does a radio show like MO is old I get that but at the same time remember it's training camp there's nothing interesting to talk about I think there were a lot of people that honestly thought this was over on when Zack killer said what he said and I I stuck I even sucked my guns that day I'm like I'll believe it when I see him there tomorrow guys I I'll believe it then and sure enough my man wasn't there but he was there but he wasn't there practicing yep thanks for checking out the local 12 YouTube channel click the links and tap subscribe to get notified anytime we post