Buffalo Bills Camp & Initial Depth Chart Observations

welcome to talking Buffalo featuring conversations with guests from Around The World of Sports media pop culture and all things Buffalo with your host Patrick Moran all right what is going on everybody how you doing welcome to another episode of talking Buffalo your weekday da driver for Buffalo Sports Talk and more today's episode is presented by Sim Turf transform your business home or even your garage into a golf Oasis with the absolute best Synthetic Turf services for golf Sims pting greens and any mats visit wwws simt turf.com for more information my name is Patrick Moran big thank you is always to everybody out there for watching for listening following subscribing I do appreciate you all very very much training camp for the Buffalo Bills almost over plus the depth chart was uh dropped on Wednesday for the first time their initial preseason depth chart I'm joined right now by good friends someone who become a recurring guest to this podcast one half of the Buffalo sports Collective My Guy PK man what's going on dude how you doing I'm doing great uh football's right around the corner got bunch of fantasy football Lees kicking off the weather is not like you're sweating as soon as you walk outside it's it's been a perfect week and uh I'm ready for some football this weekend it feels like a a sweet spot right now on the calendar like this is probably my favorite time of the year uh you mentioned that it's not hasn't been too hot which you're right but even if it was still my favorite time of the year you get into August it's almost always nice out uh the arey county fairs kicking off which is kind of like the The Unofficial Summers getting ready to end pretty soon uh 10 11 days whatever it is at the fair and of course Buffalo Bills preseason football uh getting ready to go and we're going to talk Bill's Camp uh they just wrapped up we're recording this on Wednesday their second last practice final practice Thursday many of you are watching this they listening to this on Thursday it'll be the final open practice to the public at St John's fiser I will actually be there uh on Thursday so I'll have plenty of firsthand observations for Friday show so we'll talk some uh some storylines that continue to develop from Camp uh we'll talk depth chart initial Impressions which of course you got to take all those with a a grain of salt um before we get going though you know I was on Twitter X whatever you want to call it early Wednesday morning and again we're recording that's on the 7 so I want to make sure that the date is is correct and that's for a reason didn't realize this until I came across my eyes uh on Wednesday morning 32 years ago on the this date August 7th 1992 the Buffalo Sabers swung a trade which at the time wasn't a big deal I remember Detroit do it wasn't met with a lot of uh fanfair at the time but ended up literally changing the fortunes of the franchise Jerry Min the Sabers general manager at the time on this date 32 years ago traded Stefan uh Bard which I could barely even pronounce some much he stunk and a fourth round draic which turned out to be Eric da to the Chicago Blackhawks for a young Prospect gold cender who had only played in 25 games up to that point had a little under a 900 sa percentage Dominic casic what a trade dude this turned out to be uh one one of the best forget the Savers this is one of the best most a lot for for the team that he goes to one of the best trades for a team of all time you know do you agree with that let's start there man 32 years ago today you give up a fourth round pick in a sorry to say what kind of a scrub and you end up getting Dominic haic yeah I mean I got his jersey literally right there but yeah I was uh I was three months old at the time so I don't really remember this but uh but yeah it it's definitely one of the biggest lops side lopsided deals possibly in sports Not Just Hockey not just Buffalo Sabers not just Buffalo it could be one of the most lopsided deals it ended up being one of the most lopsided deals in sports history I mean you didn't really know it at the time like you said he was a young golender growing up but he was one of those players that I grew up wanting to be like I was I've say the story all the time I was in my parents basement I dressed up and I tried to emul emulate what hasik was doing on the ice and my roller roller skates in my parents basement he he was he defined the position and he played it in such a way that you know not very many other goenda that the the Buffalo Sabers saw something in him and I don't think they ever envisioned him taking off the way he did but my god did they uh get a little bit of a steal in that trade right there yeah well yeah the Sabres I'm sure they didn't Envision him becoming what did and I can promise you the Chicago Blackhawks right didn't as well you know it's not like to do was a bum either like with Chicago again he only played 25 games he have a great sa percentage but I actually looked this up I didn't know the off F I had to look this up but he had a 134 and2 record early on in his career with Chicago 2.58 uh goals against not too shabby I'm trying to think of my mind for a perspective what would be a trade and I know you know there's more a lot more Bills fans probably listening to this today at least anyway than Sab fans I'm trying to think and I didn't think of this until just literally now but like what would be the equivalent of a trade today that would uh that you would be like all right you know how the bills no I don't even want to say Stefon Diggs because he was only here for four years um they and they gave up a first round pick it would be the equivalent of for perspective I think if the bills were to trade before he became a star Justin Jefferson you know I know they gave up first round picked to Minnesota and ended up drafting Jefferson but let's just say if the bills traded for Justin Jefferson before he popped you know like maybe he got hurt as rookie year and didn't play much and the Bills trade for him and then the next year he becomes literally the best receiver in the NFL one of the best players in the NFL may end up going down as one of the great wide receivers of all time and Brandon being is up a fourth round pick for what becomes Justin Jefferson kind of feels like a a semi accurate comparison you think yeah I mean even if you wanted to relate Buffalo sending somebody out somebody out it could be like a Josh Allen after his rookie year where he showed some promise like hash did but sending him out the door for a young package and then the team that gets Josh Allen absolute steal because he goes on to become one of the best quarterbacks in the league if you want to look at it that way that could be a a a semi you know comparison to what Buffalo did getting hasik would be you know trading Josh Allen after a rookie or his second year saying okay yeah there's still could be something there but we'll take the gamble that he's not GNA develop it's wild how a low-key trade or a low-key draft pick can make or break a franchise look at the de Broncos right now you know the deor Broncos took Bradley chub instead of Josh Allen John Railway just recently I think it was on part of might take you know he kind of lamented this calling it the biggest mistake that he made just imagine if the Broncos were the one who took Josh Allen now you got to assume that Josh Allen would still be the same quarterback in Denver who knows the system the personnal the coaches around if it works out the same but it's just those moves you know that one making a move or not making a move or pulling the trigger on a trade that don't seem like a big deal those ultimately are moves that could uh make or break a franchise by the way real quick side note Jerry mean is a you know everyone thinks with with Sab GM you go back to Darcy because Darcy was like the jam for a billion years it felt like but Jerry mean was a pretty underrated uh Buffalo Sabers GM I mean he got hassek care he got Alex mcy defect to a Buffalo Sabers he pull the trigger got the pat leontine trade while he was still GM he's in the greatest Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame so it's not like nobody you know remembers him but yeah man good Jerry mean the architect of without question the best Buffalo sports trade uh in history to really help the Sabers out during that time speaking of by the way before we get into some some bills stuff today Sabers PK what is a common denominator with pretty much every good free agent out there with every good uh veteran available maybe via trade that's got a no trade clause is there a common denominator between all these highkey you know high-profile free agents and and Veterans out there that could be traded that have no trade list what's that common denominator this is a roral question yeah uh winning and uh yeah uh yeah winning why to come here wanting to be a buffalo saber right oh yeah they don't they don't come here voluntarily well it's kind of nice to see from a Bills fan perspective to shoot me on the other foot right now with uh the New England Patriots you know for years and years and years the Patriots are a dynasty they win all these Super Bowls Buffalo BS our little baby sister to them you know it's um it's frustrating and now you get a little bit of uh rejoicing in the fact that great players don't really want to go to New England because by all accounts several reports as we recorded by the way I gotta put that out there on Wednesday because this might not drop by the time it drops maybe something happens but Brandon auk the framework was in place the Patriots had a big offer uh the 49ers New England had something in place and auk said nope not going there I won't resign so the deal falls apart um little bit surprised that New England was such a big player for Brandon auk and that ultimately he just decided yo I I want to win or I want to go to a team with a better quarterback or more established quarterback I ain't going in the New England Patriots it's weird to say that but that's the reality right now yeah I mean you you saw a glimpse of that after Brady left where Bill bich really couldn't get players that really wanted to go there and I think it's going to take a bit of time for Patriots to kind of correct that if Drake May ends up being a legit quarterback they'll be players that want to go there but until that point they don't really have an established you know offense established quarterback that will take those players to the next level so it's not super shocking when you look into it even though you know they went 15 20 years of players taking discounts to go play and chase ring with Bill bich and Tom Brady but seeing a player like the style and the the talent of Brandon auk looking at that situation going hey I could take a ton of money here but I'm not gonna win much unless Drake May pans out he must think that either Drake May won't pan out or he doesn't want to wait for that to happen along with the pieces around him so it's when you look at the whole grand scheme of things it's not shocking but when you think about the last 20 years it it is a bit shocking that nobody wants to go there yeah it's it's pretty wild um and again I want to be a little bit careful because this could even though we're only recording this a handle of hours before it drops on YouTube in maybe less than 12 hours before it drops on uh the audio side here but because he he could end up being traded by now right but as in as we record this I'm following the situation real close because the two teams now that are rumored to be most in the mix are the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Cleveland Browns and those are a pair of teams right now that I would definitely tear underneath the Buffalo Bills especially Pittsburgh but you go get yourself a a Brandon auk that is a AFC just keeps getting better one of those two teams if they get Brandon auk a legitimate Bonafide in my opinion number one receiver um you're in business you know the Steelers if they land Brandon auk I like a lot about that team to begin with they're in business and especially the Browns if it's not Amari Cooper you know going back at some kind of package with the Browns and they got Cooper and Brandon auk and ngaju at tight end and a great defense and returning Nick chub that's a pretty goddamn scary team too so like this does affect the bills in a way because whoever it seems like he's going to go to an AFC team at least that's the way it seems as we record this um this affects the bills indirectly this affects the Buffalo Bills as well yeah I'm not super afraid of Pittsburgh just based on you you know they're quarterbacks and then you got Arthur Smith there who's more known for the running game than the passing game he would definitely improve the offense and be more of a threat in the passing game but unless they change the type of philosophy and mindset that Arthur Smith is bringing and the mindset that Mike Tomlin loves to coach it I'm not super worried about that the Cleveland on the other hand like you said it perfectly if Amari Cooper is not involved in that deal they are a Bonafide terrifying offense because their defense is already scary if Deshawn Watson can beat near close to what he was back in Houston that offense could match that defense and be absolutely a headache for that Division and for the AFC so I've been seeing that any deal that auk goes to Cleveland I I would assume that Cooper's going back out the door but if for some reason they don't work that out and Cooper stays in Cleveland and they work out the money there that would that's a very scary scary offense you know we just talked a few minutes ago about the sabes one of the best trades in sports history acquiring a you know legendary golender arguably one of the best two to three goalies in the history of the game conversely the Cleveland Browns are not that far removed from making what maybe the worst trade in the history of sports oh yeah what they gave up and all the money the guaranteed money that they gave up to be able to acquire Deshawn Watson and it makes me think especially I mean I almost feel like this already but if you're all in really all in Allin and you go get Brandon iuk and you find a way to keep Cooper and you move some money around whatever it is you got to do man oh man there might not be a player in the NFL including Josh Al including burrow including anybody there's not a player in the entire NFL that could and should have more pressure on them to to be good than Deshawn Watson because if Deshawn Watson is good I said I'm not going to buy that he is I personally think he shot everything that's happened but pressure you want to talk about pressure man there's not a player in the NFL that's going to have more pressure on their shoulders I think in Shawn Watson right now oh 100% with the money and the talents around him if he doesn't win and they're tied to him for years to come it's gonna get ugly in Cleveland yeah for sure uh all right so training camp R of bills on Wednesday um by the way if you don't know this already PK Phil Buffalo sports Collective we we talk about a lot they get a great podcast solid bills coverage really solid Sabers coverage but more than anything else known for their buffalo Bandit coverage is by far the most unique and indepth coverage that you're going to get anywhere in the podcasting game when it comes to the bandits bring that up because I don't know which players were there but I know there were a couple Bandits players at camp in Rochester on Wednesday carrying around that nnl cup or NL cup I should say around the football field a lot of players were taking some time to to appreciate that so the cup was on hand the championship that the band has won on hand at practice uh on Wednesday in my notes that I sent you oh go ahead Yeah Yeah Chris or Chris swny he he's the one that has the cup right now they pass it around all through the summer so each person and you know member of the organization gets some time with it so I knew he was bringing it to practice and then it was Dane Smith Josh burn and Ian McCay that brought it there I think sw's at the Erie County Fair now with it I think I saw the post of it but yeah it's it's making its rounds the uh this Summer that thing's been taking a beating this summer and it's uh not a shock at all based on how much party they've been doing after two championships so it's like H it's like the Stanley Cup then like players get some time with it and they do whatever they're going to do with it so cool man that is so cool but anyway yeah so that that was that practice on Wednesday who was not at practice for all of Wednesday was Deon Dawkins shortly before we did this podcast I was getting ready to be a little bit concerned I'm like oh no no reports on him being injured and stuff but uh a release came out or whatever through the team that him leaving practice with trainers he did leave with trainers on his own power and that was tweeted out there by several media people um it personal not uh not injury related but I will say something and I want to get your take on this it's starting to concern me a little bit here we already know about the safety position you know the injuries and stuff that is obviously a concern but uh I was at camp on Monday and dcoin Jones did not practice it was listed as a a personal rest day or veteran rest day but he also did not practice on Wednesday um and he is dayto day with a groin injury now look the season is still several weeks away I don't give a [ __ ] if dcoin Jones plays One Snap in the preseason who cares you know who he is he's an old dude he's a veteran he knows the defense he don't to be out there risking his health but I will say I'm not going to lie to you and maybe you disagree I'm staring a little bit concerned I mean this has been a great great player for the bills but injuries have been a factor for him now you know he missed the Bengals game the divisional round loss because of an injury he obviously missed most of last season after tearing his PEC and uh you know we're just a couple weeks in the camp he haven't got the preseason game yet and he's starting to get limited and missing time with a with a groin injury man I I'm not going to say maybe worry is is a strong word but my Radar's up on DeQuan Jones kind of feel the same way yeah I mean when you deal with a player that is 33 years old going into the season you definitely want to treat him with kid gloves and make sure that he's as healthy as possible but when he's already getting injured or nursing some kind of nagging injury it's not good going into the season it's it's never good to have any players going out but especially when a player is has a a track record of being injured and I know that this is a different injury than he dealt with past but when you're dealing with an injury like that and factor in the age and factor in okay is at Oliver really the same type of player when dcoin Jones is not next to him and and there's been track record to prove that he's not the same player when Jones is not next to him that's more worrisome to me than dcoin Jones being hurt is how that affects Ed Oliver and his possible you know take it to the next level season because all through Camp I've been hearing good reports about Ed Oliver and he's just blowing up the line and he's gonna have a great season but if dcoin Jones isn't next to him can the can the offensive line and the offensive schemes take him out of the game and you don't have to really worry about him so that's that's my big bigger concern is less about dcoin Jones's injury and more what it does to an ed Oliver you know I know people all constantly think I'm an ed Oliver hater and they're going to BU think even more so after me saying this but look Ed Oliver always looks good in training camp Ed Oliver always blows up plays in training camp Ed Oliver always looks like he's ready to be an all pro defensive tackle in training camp and that Oliver has several games during the season where he does the same thing and then you get a little bit of a all right it's time for Ed to go away for a couple games and kind of be absent and don't even get me started on playoff losses but anyway look I I'll say this much about the defensive tackle position and I've been in a couple Camp practices and it's a position I've been following very closely I feel much better about the depth at defensive tackle this year than I do last even though there's a rookie but I'll tell you what you want talk about an impressive rookie that nobody really is talking about because it's all about um Keon Coleman Cole Bishop for got hurt maybe even Ray Davis I like what I've seen from Dwayne Carter a lot um I think he's going to have a role right away Austin Johnson is a good dep piece Deshawn Watson makes his roster he is a I personally think he'll probably get cut and then he comes back in a practice squad kind of like uh like Puna Ford kind of I guess we'll say from last year but anyway my point is this I think that position is is a much better shape right now this year than it was last year had some good name players last year but Tim stett didn't give you anything and I'm talk talking about behind of course at IND Quan you didn't get nothing from Tim SLE really you got even less than nothing from Puna Ford um Jordan Phillips can never count on him couldn't stay on the field too many dumb penalties Splash play though he'll make some plays I'll give him that much but aside from that then lval Joseph got off the couch maybe he should have stayed on the couch because he didn't really do anything for the bills last year um this is a position that I do feel good about I don't feel good about dcoin having a bad groin already though but this position as a whole is one of those positions where I really think they improved over the off season yeah I think the defensive line as a whole might be deeper in the most in recent years because I've been seeing good reports on the edge and Von Miller looks like old Von Miller hopefully KN on wood still training camp I want to see what he does in a real game against you know legit competition rather than just Spencer Brown and Dion Dawkins which there's no shot at either of them but you're going against the same guys over and over and over you you pick up some Tendencies especially when you got Von Miller's knowledge but yeah the the depth on the defensive tackle it definitely seems like it's deeper than past years it's definitely deeper than last year at least on paper but like you said bu Carter he's not getting a ton of you know coverage but I think a lot of that has to do with one he's a third round pick but two defensive tackles unless you're a guy like ad Oliver doesn't get a ton of name recognition and a ton of coverage there but I guess if you're if you're tying up space for an ed Oliver or for guys on the line you might not get the same you know recognition or coverage because you're not making those big- time Splash plays so if if you're not hearing his name that could be a good [Music] thing I'm here with PK from the Buffalo sports Collective going over some bills Camp observations as training cab winds down for the bills in Rochester look at the end of the day when it comes to vet train injuries is always going to be the biggest thing if somebody's out that concerns you you want to know is it a vet rest day what's the extent is it an injury what's the extent of it how's this player looking like coming back from an injury like say Matt Milano who by the way by all the accounts had a pretty good practice on Wednesday look good and pretty coverage so you could tell he's slowly and I kind of seen a little bit of that Monday he wasn't very active but every day seems to ramp up just a little bit more again another player I don't need to see his ass in the preseason for like a second just want him to stay healthy and he's still got several weeks to to ramp up but from an actual football side something that's a little bit alarming to me and has happened on Wednesday at practice uh James Cook look this guy to me is kind of an enigma because he is a great athlete he'll make you miss he's got uh a low-key underrated ability to kind of run through a tackle as well he's been prolific at times in the passing game they can do a lot for this football team there was fourth in the NFL rushing last year seventh in scrimmage yards he's a good player but man unforced and you know what that's too generous of award bonehead mistakes that James Cook just straight up makes it happened in practice Wednesday twice he dropped a pass which I saw him drop a pass on Monday too and then he had another pass where he caught it and then it end up getting knocked out afterwards it would either be an in complete pass or a a fumble um they were saying that probably could have been ruled if they would have reviewed or whatever a a fumble point being dude's having a hard time holding on to this football and that to me could be an issue I don't care what his stats were last year if you remember he spent a good chunk of last season kind of I don't want to say in MC German's dogghouse but that leash was pretty quick to get pulled on him when he would make a mistake I remember that Denver game he had a fumble which was actually just a great play by Denver and he sat out for like two straight series meanwhile Gabe Davis has a pass go right through his hands Gabe Davis was right back the next series because mcder trust Gabe Davis did not feel that way about cook you got a an exciting rookie kind of like lurking over you a little bit not a good day for James Cook and this is something that he he better figure out because I mean the touchdown drops last year as good as he was they were bad and kind of seeing more the same already at camp this year yeah that was one of the biggest talking points this offseason for us is just will he work on that part of his game and it it doesn't seem like that has improved much now maybe that changes in preseason if we see him at all maybe that changes early in the season but through training camp right now it it looks like the same old story that it was last year and the year before that it's it's he he I don't know why and I don't know how it is but you said it perfectly with Ray Davis right behind him I'm not saying that he's on a super short leash because Sha M der yeah not just Shawn mcder but a lot of coaches they they have more trust in their veteran pieces than they do the young guys coming in until the young guys prove that they can have that big role but if you can't rely on a guy like James Cook where we're not totally sure which what this offense is going to look like under Joe Brady and based on last year they relied on James Cook a ton down the stretch if you're not able to rely on him to one make catches or two secure the ball and don't commit turnovers maybe you see a run with Ray Davis and as we get into weeks five six and seven if you continue to see the same things from James Cook if Ray Davis can be a a good reliable blocking back back there during passing downs and can roll out and make catches and secure that ball could he steal some snaps from James Cook early Ty Johnson's losing ground because he's hurt he's not showing enough because you know he he he's hasn't stayed on the field this training camp so Ray Davis seems like he's taking advantage of those roles running with it and if he can squeeze some more snaps out of James Cook and prove that he can be that reliable third down back maybe he he starts stealing some you know drives from James Cook and maybe James Cook's role gets red re uh reduced because you got to be able to trust your running backs to secure that ball because those turnovers like sha mcder proved in the past it's G to get you in the doghouse and sitting on the bench I want to tell you a and people out there watching and listening quick story from camp on Monday so there's a portion of practice where they break off at one point and they all they go to one ones and it stretched over three parts of the field to the far which so I'd be looking out to the field this way so to the far left of the end zone was o line dline doing one-on ones I didn't really pay much attention to that the far right side was one-on ones between receiver in DB and I know everybody was pretty much fixated on that and I watched that you know a little here and there but like around the middle of the field was uh pass rush with linebackers or in DB's blitzing off the edge and the running backs were had to block oneon-one you know with the with the coach standing there to get to the coach and like James Cook wasn't even out there for this drill and like uh Ben for you know like the the big the locked in Russell Douglas the locked in starters didn't partake in this drill but Ray Davis did and I was really focused on him because I know for him to get on this field he's going to have to show they to get pass block and he had one rep Doran Williams had an out standing rep and Doran Williams just kind of bulled through him and got to the quarterback relatively quickly but he probably had about six reps out there total Ray Davis I'm talking about pass blocking and I thought he looked good as a whole minus the one rep like I said where Doran Williams beat him but aside from that I thought he looked really good I remember one where Cam Lewis was blitzing uh and other it might have been Hardy or something he just quickly locked them down but anyway um I say that because I'm practicing on Wednesday I'm part of like this text chat group with people who are someone he's always at practice and and we're twe out each other's or texting each other or thoughts and Ray Davis by all the Cs that I saw had a really good day again at pass blocking and picking up blitzes I get to this point because I'm starting to see a role for him already on this team that latavius Murray role from last year latavius Murray played a lot when the bills were throwing the ball over James Cook because they trusted latavius Murray to be a pass blocker Plus he can do some things out of the bfield now latavius Murray old as hell hit a wall at the end of the year and he was kind of a shell of what he was earlier in the season understand understandably so Ray Davis is Young he ain't gonna be that dude I'm starting already my vision for this offense will be sure cook will start but what we just talked about and especially if he's going to drop passes or or put the ball on the ground you might see a lot more Ray Davis than just an occasional third down L tavius Murray type but even at worse the more Ray Davis could show that he could pick up the Blitz and pass block the more this kid is gonna get on the field a lot yeah and what's also uh working in his Advantage is yes he's a rookie but he's an older rookie at 25 years old he's the same age as James Cook so it's sure I think a little bit of that also factors into it how much he's played in college and in the past so I think he's not going to be treated as much like a normal rookie coming in because of his age experience in college and playing for as many years as he had so being a older rookie might actually benefit him yes he's way younger than Murray and has a lot more juice than Murray but it it he's still an older rookie back that could prove himself on the field and be like hey I'm not one of these like 21 22 year olds in here I've have a of experience in this in this running back role I can take this and run with it and I just need that opportunity one other thing I wanted to hit on from practice directly involving an individual player and this is the other side of the football that really interests me because up until Monday for to an extent and now especially now starting to wonder a little bit PK so I practiced on Monday the bills ran 11 on 11 and the first time offense versus defense first team Kym was out with the ones not Christian Benford and my mindset is hm well that's interesting I feel like maybe that's a tip of the cap to kyum for the hard work he's putting in and looking good early in Camp and maybe it's a little bit of a gentle reminder to Christian Benford to say hey man don't get too comfortable you know this this isn't your spot it's not written down in Sharpie right now stay sharp you know that was my mindset and then Benford went out the second time they went out was Benford and not um who play with the ones all right fast forward to practice on Wednesday 11 on 11 first set Russ Douglas is out there which he's been out there the whole time and it's Benford this time but the second time they go out with the ones it's KY elim and not Benford who's out there with the ones I thought there would be a 100% chance that Christian Benford is your week one starting corner I still feel like Christian bford is your week one starting corner but I'm not willing to to write that down again in Sharpie or say 100% I'm starting to wonder through all the good reports of kyum looking good at practice and I've seen a couple firstand myself and and thought he looked good this year much more consistent than last year I'm starting to wonder man do we got a battle Brewing right now between Christian Benford and KY reim is is this not set in stone that Christian Benford is your your starter I think going into Camp it was set in stone and I think they really were ready to give it to Douglas and Benford and I think Elum has just pushed their hand and said hey he's still here and at this point it's almost weird because he was a former first round pick but you're going into it like is this house money did we find another potential cornerback that can play outside of rul Douglas and if that's the case and you got three corners that you can rely upon and Trust out there in that situation great problem to have but I I definitely think it was that they went into Camp fully expecting this is Benford and this is Douglas's job out there and anything we get from Elum is just a bonus if you can rely on him to be that guy that can go in there and give him a few reps or if there's an injury we can count on him maybe one or two weeks but if you're actually seeing him push Benford for a starting job out there it's it's like I said again it seems like it's house money which is weird for a firmer first round pick but maybe this this change on defense with you know Bobby babit taking over the defensive coordinator and a different coach in that room in the DB room maybe that's all elim needed maybe he just needed a new voice in his ear to give him that confidence that he could still do this because he he was good in college he came out with a good pedigree it was still in him he just had to get it out of him and maybe again I want to see in real game scenarios that he can keep him Sams to himself but it's it seems like there's a big Brew I still give the edge to Benford but I think elam's making their job to determine who's going to be the starter out there a heck of a lot harder my realistic goal for kyum on day one in training camp was show me that you could be Dane Jackson show me that you could be a strong number three and if something happens to Douglas or to Benford the the floor is not going to fall out when you got to come in the game and play a series a half a week maybe a couple weeks whatever it may be that was my goal show me that you're Dane Jackson I can feel Dane Jackson level comfort with you I feel like the goal post has changed for me a little bit now I'm feeling like my realistic goal is will kyum push can he push Christian Benford over the next couple weeks I tell you I think they're different types of players too PK yep kym's lengthier more aggressive he's more of a play maker like he'll make a big play he'll get the picks he'll also get beat though you know he'll make the mistakes Christian Benford is more of a a kind of like a higher floor lower ceiling sticky type player really good in coverage good tackler know steady Dependable kyum not that but kyum ceiling is higher he has really really good ability it's just fun to see you we heard a little bit about this last year and it just never came to fruition because he played great one day and stink the next telling you everyone I've talked to him from the few practice since I've been there too kyum has been maybe one of the most consistently good players on this team during training camp yeah it it's that was one of the biggest issues is he would have such low low practices and low low games but then he would flash and you see the talent that's there he just hadn't been consistent maybe it just takes three years for him to do that but but like I said it it I he definitely is showing that he has the higher playmaking abilities out there and you know he could get burned and then the next play he could jump the route and get an interception and completely redeem himself but Benford is like that steady presence out there where you would kind of expect it to be that with a lower draft pedigree but you know it's like I keep saying it's a good problem to have I don't know which side I'm leaning because Douglas can make those cause turnovers as well and get those picks and he's known for it so would you rather have Douglas over there in a more steady Benford or would you like to have the playmaker of elim out there I guess it kind of it maybe it depends on the scenario in in Game of who you want out on the outside but you know it's if elim can keep pushing Benford he might you know make Benford go sit on the sidelines because maybe they're going to want more uh playmaker and turn turnovers on this defense to help the offense while they're still trying to work out Kinks on that side of the ball all right I want to let you know that today's episode is brought to you in part by Sim Turf transform your Homer business hell even your garage into a golf Oasis with Sim turf's premium Synthetic Turf since 200 in one sim Turf has become the industry leader in supplying Turf to many of the top names in golf including trackman Callaway torade ping the Golf Channel just a name a few and that's for a good reason they provide the absolute best Synthetic Turf surfaces for residential and Commercial golf Sims putting greens hit mats and indoor outdoor T lines I have the E hybrid HDM for myself for my homemade golf Sim and I couldn't even imagine right now hitting off anything else from realistic feedback on good and bad shots to comfort to durability it is the perfect hitting map for me if you're serious about building out a quality golf simulator nothing's more important than Turf and no one does it better than Sim Turf visit their site at www.f.com and you can get 5% off any order use promo code talking Buffalo at check out sim Turf Simply the Best I really like your last Point by the way on uh on Elum in Benford and maybe Beyond just competition it could become a matchup thing like there might be certain scenarios certain matchups certain parts of the game need a turnover something like that and El might be the guy more likely to get you that you maybe you go with him so that's a really good point it's fun to follow though it's just it's fun to see a healthy competition and just quite frankly it's fun to see kyum start to thrive in some capacity at least because I ain't gonna lie I rode him off as a as a bus so maybe he's not and we'll see no I know I'm not I'm definitely not alone one other camp note too interesting you know these players right now they're they're playing for the lives this can't mean zero to so many veterans because they're the only thing they care about staying healthy staying healthy getting through it getting yourself in a little bit better game shape and that's all that matters uh for other players every practice could be life or death you know trying to make this team I was at Camp Monday and I'm telling you I was just a handful of feet away where uh an Isabella went down got hurt grabbed his leg was in a lot of pain carded off by the trainers now that could be a little bit misled too because if you're not familiar with Rochester's field and the way it's laid out it's a long ass walk from the training room the locker rooms to campus to the field so it wouldn't be that uncommon for a car to to come get you if you got some kind of leg issue still point being is this back out of practice on Wednesday he can't afford Tim his practice he is probably on the wrong side of the roster bubble to begin with and missing practice would be you know that that would be like a nail in the coffin for for Annie Isabella right now because in part one of the guys K that he's directly competing with KJ hamler um had a good day at camp and I saw a clip he dropped a pass too a bad drop too but all in all another good day for him and kind of leading us to talking about the death chart right now the bills put out an official death chart although I strongly advise everyone to take any depth chart that comes out before the first preas G preseason game take that [ __ ] with a huge grain of salt but there are a couple things that kind of popped at me a little bit and one of them is KJ hamler is listed number one as the kick returner and punt returner R Hardy uh right now KJ hamler kind of like somebody we really didn't spent a lot of time talking about in our chat on this podcast but hey man dude's got a a realistic path or so it seems right now to this roster yeah and he's a former high draft pick as well if ICT from Denver yeah he's finally healthy and with the new kickoff which we finally got to see last Thursday because I'm one of those freaks that actually watched part of the Hall of Fame game that kickoff uh it could cause a lot of headaches for a lot of teams and if hamler can be that creative guy back there that's a way that he can make the the roster same with Isabella same with Hardy there's a there's a lot of positions that are open because of this new kickoff Rule and you you mentioned Isabella trying to get back on the field that might be his only way to get on this team is to beat out hamler for the kick return that might be hamer's only way right now so like you said every single snap and every single rep these guys are getting goes on the coach's mind and that goes in the notebook and when it's time to make these Cuts those are the first things that people are going to remember so Isabella like you said he can't afford to miss time here especially with how well Shavers is playing especially you know the how well howand is playing I think howand was pretty much a lock to make this roster anyways but there there's there's players that are stepping up and you you can't miss time because you're gonna end up getting forgotten so there's just a handful of spots and kick return that could be a way that it's e it's probably either Isabella or hamler if if Hardy doesn't win it so it it's very it's going to come down to these preseason games and if any of these guys pop in that return game it could lock up them a spot on this team I wouldn't by stocking at Isabella makeing this team um he could he's a good candidate to be on the practice squad I think he could clear waivers I think he would definitely be on the practice squad KJ hamler got a shot I I still like Hardy a little bit more though but we will we will uh we'll see there I just think that was interesting by the way you said you watch some of the Hall of Fame game did you so you caught a couple kickoffs I completely forgot I did not watch a single second of the Hall of Fame game do you get a sense based on even if it's just Hall of Fame preseason [ __ ] or not that kickoffs could be a little crazy in the league I have no idea how it's gonna how it's going to play out I'll start to see a little bit of it on Saturday because I will be watching of course the Bills game but uh I don't know man kickoffs going to be different this year aren't they yeah I mean if you get past the first wave your home free you're only going to have the kicker to beat it's it's it's going to be absolutely nuts the first few weeks I don't think there's any time for them to work this out in preseason I don't think you're G to tr see true what it truly is going to look like until week three four and five when the special team coordinators actually figured out but there could be some big time home run kickoffs and then I can see the teams just going okay we there's been five six kickoff returns already this season let's just boot it out of the back of the end zone it where it's going to start off and now have to worry about okay are they going to return this one and just go all the way for seven so I I think it's it's going to be another interesting element of the game and you're not going to be able to go use your bathroom break uh during that time you're gonna have to wait till halftime so Terence McGee would have thrived in the 2024 NFL is basically what you're telling me right now it's actually exciting now yeah for sure um so I would say the Casual Bills fan who might GL at the or you know take a little bit of a glance at the dep chart might be like what Keon Coleman he's not starting me Collins is starting well again if you watch Camp if you know all this team works not surprising a Keon Coleman's gonna be just fine trust me B ma Hollands I'm telling y'all been saying it he's going to have a role on this team I originally he signed I'm like all right there's your um there's your Trent sherfield Maybe a little bit better than Trent sherfield I don't believe that anymore I think his role is going to be more than what Trent sherfield was I think he's be a core special teams player but I think he's going to be involved in this offense he has been productive a lot at Camp I noticed on Monday during practice after practice was well over almost everyone else was off the field sign autographs going back into the locker rooms Matt Collins was out there working on some routes with Mitch trabitz um Matt Collins has looked good he's earned that spot he could block well the team trusts him again I keep going back to that word trust but but again don't be don't don't fret it K Coleman's gonna be just fine he's looked good he's gonna be a red zone threat he's gonna get some run during games he'll he'll just be fine but don't go expecting Keon Coleman to put up Stefon Diggs you were foolish to begin with if you ever thought that but Keon Coleman ain't gonna have Stefon Diggs type production he's not replacing Stefon Diggs uh Matt Collins has earned that spot for now like is going to be just fine yeah it's it's definitely one of those ones where if you're just a casual fan you're seeing this and just going how did Coleman end up there behind who the heck is even Matt Collins uh M Matt Collins uh I I agree with you I think he's going to have a bigger role I don't think it's going to be anything special but I think he's going to have moments that pop this season he's going to be a guy that you can rely on in a pinch if there are injuries or if something's not working he can be relied upon there he's going to be a big special teamers like you mentioned but he's he's definitely a guy that you're not going to be able to sleep on I I think he's going to be I I still think I think in the end Coleman will have better numbers through the whole season than Holland will but I don't think Holland is going to be the guy that puts up like I don't know 20 receptions for 250 I think he could be a guy that's 30 40 receptions for close to 4500 yards in this type of offense if they truly do spread the ball around like they're planning on doing it's worth noting that uh two years ago with the Raiders uh Matt Collins had 690 yards receiving so he has been useful in the past he was not useful last year with Atlanta Atlanta had a plethora of really skilled receivers and God awful quarterbacking throwing them the football uh he was pretty much relegated to a special team player last year and so really didn't do [ __ ] but he has it in him and I like what I see from him in Camp and I know Josh Allen is a a Big M guy like I said those were the things that kind of popped on the depth chart nothing else really uh besides that I keep going back to the rookies having to earn their trust uh Cedric vanran Granger a fifth round pick Center who I think a lot of people had this which now looks like Fantasy Land uh projections that maybe he might come to camp and push C McGovern to be the starting center from week one I'm here to tell you that's not happening so forget that uh he's actually third right now on the depth chart they got will clap ahead of him at Center on the dep chart I'm not down on Granger whatsoever I'm just saying it's GNA be a slow burn with him he ain't getting on this field I shouldn't say ain't because you never know but he's a long way from being the starting center right now PK is what I'm telling you man he's third on the death chart that's a at least notable yeah it'll be interesting to see by the end of Camp if he's able to push for that backup center roll and I I think that's what you're kind of hoping for for the Buffalo Bills I know there's people out there hoping that maybe he could push McGovern and push McGovern back to left guard but if he can push and be that backup behind him and if something happens he can be relied upon to go and be that Center it'll be it's good depth to have especially with that late of a draft pick and that guy and you even mentioned on your show when I was on a while ago Eric Eric wood absolutely loves him and if he can devel and be that good time backup centerman that down the road can develop into that starting center and push M back to left foot left guard I think you're really just hoping for him earning that backup center role by the time Camp breaks yeah uh Le leel Collins is is a second string left guard right now I'm still not even confident he's going to make the team he's been banged up through some the camp apparently Brad just Monday and it's funny because I was going through line combinations I remember tweeting him out and he weren even on the second team uh I don't know he seems to me like a guy who's a perfect practice squad candidate we'll see I think Alec Anderson is going to be that backup center SLG guard tackle your backup Ryan Bates basically I think Alec and Al Anderson plays that role your six offensive lineman who comes in jumo packages like David Edwards did last year Bobby Hart did two years ago but for now anyway Collins is ranked uh you know he's put up on the second team dep chart we'll start to get maybe a couple answers on Saturday let me ask you this as we get ready to get out of here the bills have a game on Saturday yay uh they're at home playing in Chicago beers who's gonna play we don't know what Starters play Nothing by the way as we record this nothing's been announced maybe it will be Thursday morning Sean's going to speak early before practice so might have some answers by the time you're watching or listening to this but as of not we don't know but I suspect some starters are going to play especially guys who aren't cemented in uh as starters but between them backups competing certain positions what are like one or two things since you're going to be forced to watch a a preseason game involving the Buffalo Bills what are a couple things that you're kind of interested in in seeing yourself well the top one's still the the kickoff I I think that's going to be a fun part of it but if you're looking further than that you know Granger versus the clap battle I I think that'll be a fun battle to watch who's going to be in the rotation behind the Miller Russo and EPA who's going to be that next guy that flashes and kind of bees that takes over for the Floyd takes over for the loss and takes those snaps there who is Bobby babit going to be the one that making the play calls up in the Box it's seeming like it they still I still don't think they've made an announcement of it but with him being in the Box I think everybody's speculated that he's going to be the one that's making the calls so is he the one that's going to be radioing down that or is it still G to be a shared is it still G to be sha mcder so there there's some interesting things the wide receiver battle how much time are they going to get out there how does Shavers flash is he able to earn a spot in this uh you know Six Wide Receiver role it's it's definitely going to be a very for the freaks that like this kind of stuff and the the depth battles it's going to be a good game for this and that's why I'm almost rooting for the starters not to play because I want to see those those depth players especially in a team where you know the wide receiver room behind a few of them we don't really know who's going to be the three four five guy I should say the four five6 guy we don't know who's going to be the backups on the defensive and offensive line so there's a lot of things that are going to be working themselves out but you know I'm almost rooting for you know most of the starters not to play not just because I want to see some of the backups but for healthwise too I do not want one of these starters on the first drive to go out whatsoever no me neither I I don't want to see I would be good if a starter didn't play a snap the whole entire preseason it's G to happen but that that would be my hope you know I to go in in between because in in some regards you're 100% right you're like this battle is going to be fun to see how it plays out who looks better this and that sometimes I don't think it matters I'll give you last year is a perfect example last year you know we were talking about a potential Benford versus elim this year last it was going to be Bishop in the mix and Edwards and those guys are out so who knows how that plays out but anyway last year it was um Terell Bernard versus Tyrell Dodson Bernard didn't really do [ __ ] during camp then he literally didn't play during the preseason yet he was the week one starter and I'm like what are we doing here and then you know a quarter and a half into a week one I'm like well that's why he's the starter I get it now but my point was you didn't gaug you didn't get any of that from watching him in the pre-season or even during Camp so sometimes it don't end up meaning nothing but there's three things that I'm kind of interested in the most for Saturday's game and I'm going to pref this I'm probably going to repeat some of this [ __ ] tomorrow I'm on the show or Friday as well um one I think this is a great chance if he plays for and I think he will Demar Hamlin to kind of maybe solidify for now that number one free safety position show that hey I'm capable you got Bishop out you got Edwards out which I I talked about this on the show a little bit yesterday I watched Edwards and he was kind of walking around pretty gingerly I'm no doctor maybe he gets better in a couple days overnight and he goes from you know walking right to running but he didn't look like he was ready to gonna be ready to play anytime real soon but Jamar Hamlin could come out and have a really good chance to kind of put a string a hold for now on the free safety position I think ideally Cole Bishop was not going to be the starter anyway if Hamlin or Edwards looked ready I don't think sea wants to give the keys to a rookie at safety right now but anyway it's a good opportunity if he plays your tomorrow hamlins I'll be locked in on that the wide receivers of course bottom half look first four S Stone then it comes down to for me comes down to three receivers Shavers who is at a really good camp hamler who could be the kick returner that does matter and he's flash some and mvs a guy who I was incredibly high on um who has been kind of quiet during Camp although he's been eating up a little bit lately because I think the team knows what they're going to get but anyway you got three guys there you got one receiving spot for sure possibly two depending on if the bills keep five or six receivers worth noting last year they rostered five everyone's assuming six last year Camp Cuts five receivers those three one of them's making the team for sure maybe two I still have a hard time saying if MBs is only going to be your fifth receiver and has no special teams value does he make the team I don't know man Chase Claypool the injury I think has really hurt his opportunity to to show the team what he could do um he is not he's I think he's missed six straight practices now so I don't even include him for the time being in that mix Justin shorter's always hurt so sorry I want to like him he can't see on the field so I've already dismissed him so to me it's Shavers hamler MBS one maybe two and then the last thing this tight end Zack Davidson I I want to blow him off uh but I can't because every time I I've seen him to makes great plays he looks like such a good pass catcher but I just refuse to believe that the bills would keep a third tight end with no special teams value like Davidson over quinnon Morris who's a core special teams player when you already lost matovich you already lost suron Neil so I feel like Quin Morris is making this team do you keep four tight ends I don't buy it but if this dude flashes and pops during a preseason game I might start buying in yeah for hamler I would be very surprised if he plays in this one just based on all the injuries for the safety room I wonder if they would almost hold him out to avoid that type of injury just just on the off chance just like hey he's been looking good in Camp we've seen him in the past we kind of know what we're going to get from him rather hold him out and just get the other guys healthy before we roll him out wide receiver room like you said perfectly I I think mvs and Josh Ellen are close it from all the reports are it sounds very close but when it comes down to it does schaer offer more than mvs does at this point yes if mvs goes out the door it's costing you as much as if he was on the team you're not making any savings whatsoever because it's 2.25 whether he's on the team or not so can Shavers make up that difference in that department and earn a spot there and be the five or six guy but like you said last year they kept five they they could possibly do it again and then with Davidson it seems like maybe he would be one of those guys that flashes and then earns value around the league and maybe that's a guy because we've always seen Brandon Bean do it with the offensive line maybe there's a team out there that could value him as a pass catching tight end that could keep him on the 53 so if he has a really good camp and buffalo just doesn't have a spot for him they might be able to swing a deal knowing okay we're not GNA be able to get this guy down to the practice squad because he doesn't do much on special teams whatsoever you know what dude you're pretty good at getting in some of those sneaky lowkey really good points it could never heard that before don't tell my yeah man lowkey the little thing I'm like you know what yeah don't think about that maybe davidon don't make this roster but he becomes really good trade value or who know hamers who who the hell knows there's players like that you know what I'm saying that they could become the Shavers somebody who you don't think much of like you know what might not make this roster but you might be able to get some from Brandon Bean's notorious for doing it I think to conclude here I think NBS and LEL Collins are two relatively well-known veteran players who I think are legitimately firmly on the roster bubble right now it would not surprise me if both make the team and it would equally not surpris me if both of them got caught throw Deon Jones we didn't talk about him today linebacker a longtime linebacker in that mix as well can make the team could get cut three veterans wouldn't surprise me whatsoever yeah yeah 100% I I fully agree they're they're definitely on the bubble and they got to do something either in training camp practices or if they play in the preseason to kind of earn one of those 53 man spots all right man so next time we talk which hopefully will be soon we will actually start having games that we could kind of go off with our thoughts as opposed to just you know offseason speculation and couple practices here and there at Camp it might only be preseason I'm not going to lie man and we're still three days away as as we record this kind of excited oh yeah I'm I'm ready to go I'm gearing up we said it on the podcast that dropped today or Wednesday I should say because this is coming out Thursday uh next time we talk on our show there's actually going to be legit football to talk about I can't wait I it's it's like you said to start off the show it's one of the best times of the year yeah for sure all right guys if you haven't done so already make sure you go check out Buffalo sports collective in fact you're listening hopefully to the end of this if you made it this far soon as you're done go hit it up Buffalo sports Collective their latest episode is out of course follow PK on Twitter at pkor BC man I I appreciate you I appreciate like I said you're lowkey under the radar really good points man appreciate it anytime I'll be back Anthony Marino Bill's last Camp practice I will be there in Rochester and I'll be here tomorrow to discuss it all with Anthony Marino talk to you guys then he [Music]