Deep Dive: Kliff Kingsbury & the Evolution of the Air-Raid Offense | Podcast | Washington Commanders

hey everyone Logan Paulson here to let you know that the command center podcast has been selected to be a part of this year's People's Choice podcast Awards it's because of you our Washington football family that we do this show and it's because of you that this podcast has skyrocketed the past year I speak for both tana and Fred when I say we are so grateful and appreciative of the love and support that being said let's win this People's Choice Award for the month of July go to www.p podcast awards.com and register to vote then Vote for This podcast in the sports category the more votes we get the better chance we have of winning and with a fan base like ours I believe we can show the podcast Awards and the NFL the commander football and the command center podcast are ready to shock the world for more information check out the description for details thank you for your support and vote and now on with the show on today's episode of the command center podcast we're talking all offense and we're talking about what the air rate actually is everyone says Cliff Kingsbury is an air raid guy what does that mean and then how is he going to change that to fit the Personnel here in Washington and what our guys B Rob Terry look like with this it all starts right now welcome to command center podcast I'm Logan Paulson here with Fred Smoot and Santana Moss guys super Juiced to be here for this show yeah how's everything going hey man everything's good man life is great life is great Midsummer paral lipsic tell a lie hey come on Midsummer all the new shows out you're relaxing you getting ready it ain't quite football season but what you know is there it's almost here to know else is almost here yeah what's that House of dragon it's already here third yeah no it's already here brother you so late so late third I thought but you know what I'm excited about what's that this new podcast hail's Tales oh yeah it what a name what a name who named it probably Jason it probably wasn't Hannah Hannah came out with it it wasn't Jason Hannah's doing an awesome job so last week we did the hiring of Joe Gibbs which is a great episode any good nuggets from that one that you like uh uh put you on the yeah no no I do I I like when Joe Gibbs got the call to meet Jack Kent cook and they went to New York called him to his office in New York and when he was there Jack and cook pointed out the window of the building to Joe Gibbs and said see that building over there he pointed you to Chrysler Building cuz I own that oh so anything you want you tell me yeah I can get it that's a crazy Flex that is the craziest flexx do you imagine not really it a like are y'all going to do the rehiring of Joe Gibs no not the reh wants to be in it want to be in it because I am responsible for for the Joseph even answering the call the second time fact Checkers would be all over hey first of all coach first of all Coach G has already said it in his own words no he did not coach Gil said I was sitting at home with my wife watching TV and and some youngster gets on TV and say they were like what happened spur you quit on you who you what y'all going to do now like the only person can save us is coach Gibbs if he come back we got so you didn't actually call him no he said that with his wife and he said I have been I've been had been wanting the coach for like 3 months but I didn't know how to ask my wife and you asked her for me so then she turned to me and said Joe what you want to do he said I want to go back and Coach the next day he called in and guess what everything else history and and Joe son want to get into football okay this is all this is all Trish the the real story is Jo we interviewed interviewed Joe Gibbs and and this is truish right he had already what Fred did was started the conversation between him and his wife yes the decision to coach again was already there no he wanted but he didn't know how to bring it up to his wife and then they saw Fred say this on TV so mentioned it to his wife but it wasn't like Fred started this it you helped their relationship he no what I did was you got to realize spur was our coach all right we had a coach our coach retires one day after the season is over with no he's through all right I'm put right there on the spot Mike in my face who you want Joe ain't told me he been talking about then cuz he sure ain't talk to it about with Miss G up that's who you got to talk to it about you just said some stuff I free the story up next thing you know two days later coach GBS is here all right and then he get say I want to talk to him yeah guess what here I go on the phone what up coach again you going to coach you yeah I'm back in the building can't wait to meet you in person don't worry I'll be back from Mississippi today got come here met to Joseph and we've been tight ever since so and that was hail Tales right there that's another episode right there that's hell of a tale so that's last week's episode this week's episode is the art of special teams and basically that's how George Allen put the special in special teams yeah is that right that's that's what it's all about like making special teams something that other teams had to account for yeah yeah Tana makes a little appearance in this we interviewed Tana I love it I I chime in a little bit would anything good any any good nuggets they should look out for no I mean not necessarily I just talked about you know I mean you got to think I was drafted because I was a great punt returner you know I mean a first round you ever thought of that you wrap your head around that well they knew you were going to be a good damn receiver no but they didn't want me to be in four years of playing great rece being a great receiver they still was mad at me cuz they wanted me to be more of a punt returner so that just that just strange to me but that's it is strange that's how you know I I came here because you know this team really needed a a wide out and so another team didn't want me to be fully a wide out yeah so I'm not 100% like in terms of timeline is that like B Mitch's era of stuff just before bch two years no all right he was at Philadelphia and then his last year was at the Giants with the giant 02 so I got to play two years against uh B Mitch listen he's a pitbull off the field a Pit Bull on the field and he he was by the time I was there he had really made special teams like all right you got to watch out for us like we ain't just a dude that that's third on the depth chart like we can break games open so we we made plans to stop B Mitch when we played there you played against B Mitch I just told you that that's crazy I know a one and 02 me and T played against man that's wild I always think way older than in that green that Philly uniform and big old shoulder pad and then the next year he's with the Giants and it was crazy cuz I you know now we talk about that stuff and I'm like that's crazy how you just did them little two little stints and came back and so loved over here you know mean abely this is in the 70s when George Allen came but B Mitch is interviewed in this because the the ripple effect of what happened comes to bitch's favor and he talks about that yeah all right so that th those are awesome podcast again commanders fans make sure you check it out those are great I'm going I can't wait till you listen every week I'm waiting with baited Beth breath to check them out all right so the next thing is training camp right we don't have the dates yet but you can go to the website commander.com Reserve tickets it's free come on out watch practice we Santana Fred myself just the guy will be out there London will be out there watching training camp come by the show we have free merch uh get that Hawk outside shirt some other shirts we can give out for free we'll sign that stuff make sure you come out and uh see where the team's at and see what all the excitement's about really is what we're trying to do if you're not excited about this you need to check your post check your post if you if you're a fan of this team and you've endured yeah what what this franchise has been through and you not excited about this but but that's every year every year you get is a a new leash on to whatever you're trying to be you know what I'm saying like every guy come in here with a new outlook of this is what we can be and as a fan every year every different fan base feel like they going to win a Super Bowl oh no it's 32 teams right now every different fan base so I'm sure there going to be a lot of excitement I'm sure there going to be a lot of people out there I just can't wait cuz you know we get bombarded like we still playing that is cool but also you got admit man it's a little bit exciting this I love it I don't I don't look I don't take it for granted for the simple fact one day you going to be old great nobody ain't going to know nothing about you so enjoy it now embrace it now because I feel that it come with to territory if you was a guy that was worth something and and you went out there and did what you had to do you know they'll show you appreciation through time no doubt yeah so in kind of preparation for training camp I think we should start we did our defensive show last week talking about Joe wit Jr's defense the evolution of Dan's defense that was a really fun conversation so we figured why not do the same thing this week with the offense specifically we're going to talk high level offense we're going to go do a really similar format high level offense cliff kingsberry and the air raid and then we're going to talk about how our guys could potentially fit in this system right okay so let's start off and I guess tany you can answer this first question because you are kind of our offensive expert here is what makes a good offensive scheme youve played in a lot of them played for a long time played in some bad ones played in some okay ones and I played in some good ones so what's a good one like I think a good offense tailor their style of play around their skill they're Playmakers they're guys um let me give you an example um 2010 um Shannon come here love this story by the way and he comes in and we have Donovan mnav and we knew that the style of play from where they ran this in Denver West Coast y you know where they ran this over in in um Philly know with the Texans you know that same offense was the offense now we're going to be running and the Run scheme is Dynamic you know the passing game is dynamic also but you have to understand it and be able to uh be efficient enough to be productive in it and that season was okay 2010 wasn't a bad year and then we go to 2011 we fell off like a bad bag of you know what Y and then Allah 2012 comes and here come rolling in RG3 yeah and everything we did with that offense in 2010 and 2011 was basically thrown out the window we still had the same you know scheme when ites to you know run sets and all that stuff but we changed the offense to fit who we had at the quarterback position and I feel like that made those that coaching style because we already thought highly of the that offense if you watch kuak when he ran it when you watch how [ __ ] did in the Texans you know when he was in Houston and you watch how they did in Denver winning Super Bowls and going to Super Bowls with that offense we knew the offense couldn't be dynamic but to change up and make make it suitable for your running style quarterback I thought it was brilliant so to me I think when you talk about good offenses man you talk about that coaching staff or that offensive coordinator that mind to be able to say this is what I have talent-wise and I need to make it efficient enough that these guys can be effective love that love that answer how about you Fred when you're playing against an offense you're like man this offense is good because of what it's Unique I would say unique cuz usually offensives in NFL they kind of all look the same yeah until you find these uh Baltimore Ravens because of Lamar Jackson they don't run your every like so when we had to practice for them the weak of it's like no other yeah yeah we we're getting out of our own disciplines we're F to have to be attacked a different way than everybody else is attacking us and we're F to have to play a ball game not used to how we're used to playing it so I think when a team is unique you got first of all you got to have unique talent hon but when you have a unique off a cam new at Carolina I can only it's hard to figure how to play them out and then all of a sudden next week we go back to a we're going to play it like we've been playing everybody else so I think once you get a unique offense with a unique player with a unique caller somebody that doesn't call by disciplines I have some guys that they wouldn't dare run certain a reverse on Third and five Andy Reed did it all the time right so because Andy said I'm not going by y'all disciplines I'm going to think outside the box it makes it unique and almost Unstoppable because a football is a job of discipline now they got you guessing now we're guessing and guess what you guess long you guess wrong you going to get beat in this league so I would say one thing is unique talent me unique caller I think give you a unique chance and a unique offense to be different you know I think different is sometime if you make us work a little harder than another team to study you and prepare for you you got on our heels a little bit before the gameing start yeah I'm with that 100% I think it just even distill it down more I think tan you hit you know you want to maximize your offensive Personnel Fred you want to be unique I think the the core tenant of good offense is you want to stress defenses stress their rules just put them in situations where they're in Conflict I think when you look at even like high school offenses like the triple option for example it stresses rules like you got to take the dive I pull it if you don't if you take the quarterback I'm gonna pitch it and rout the gate for 88 you know what I'm saying it's just I've stressed your defensive rules with the triple option with the single wing with the bone with the spread with the air raid Wing T whatever yeah and it's just about finding ways to stress and then to your point T like I'm not going to run the triple option if I've got Drew bre pton Manning or Drew bre right I'm G to find something that fits my offensive Personnel but I my base point is to stress you on the defensive show we talked a little bit about how like there's coverages right you got cover four I'm not going to line up in 2 by two if you're playing out of quarters I'm going to get in overloads I'm going to get in 3x one I'm going to get in 4 by1 I'm going get bunches I want bunches I'm going to say figure this out communicate this we're going to find it you're stressed right that was the whole thing with um Kyle Shanahan uh and Mike Shanahan really before him in Denver when they're running all this outside Zone and then they run the boots off of it right because the way to stop outside Zone was have the backside defensive end tackle the running back and Mike was like well let's just have the quarterback keep it and throw it Jake The Snake plumber 100% made it famous and they couldn't deal with so again there's different ways of skinning a cat so to speak but ultimately we're just trying to stress you you know and T you've already alluded to kind of this second question which I think is really good is offense much like defense comes alive when you got The Playmakers but unlike defense I think it can be tailored to your offensive Personnel right I love the story you used to tell where the guy was just basically copying the offensive stuff from the week before because he knew you could run it yeah well you know I got here in ' 05 and I told you you know that's was when and um I got a chance to play with Coach Gibbs and after the first game he sat there and said man we not really being uh that efficient in the passing game he's like you know uh but Run game was solid you know Porters was hitting on all cylinders and we can run the ball with the best of him but passing he just wasn't happy it was only one game yeah and then you got to think when we when we played that next week in Dallas we didn't do nothing that whole first three four quarters until the last two minutes when I bang bang and you know won the game so I believe that when saw that the plays that I actually told them about that week was successful enough for us to win that game the third game we was getting ready before we even got to the to the whole game plan coach bro said hey uh can you come in here six o'clock in the morning I want to run some stuff by you coach Gibbs went on ahead and said you know what in order for me to be good I have to adapt to what's what's what's being productive today now I can't sit here and try to force feed you guys with what I did in my Super Bowl area our running game is still being able to you know hold up but this passing game you guys are different on the outside now and then quarterback wise no longer Ramsay so now we have Mark brell he's a different style of quarter he's a left-handed guy so I have to change things how I want to do it so you know what I'm going to do I'm G to do what most of these guys it's a copycat league if these guys couldn't stop something last week we going to run it this week yeah and they basically went up there and gave me I mean we would literally watch the film they'll watch the film before we come in and watch it and just pencil down everything that was successful in the passing game and sat T can you run this and we basically ran I mean it it got to the point to where even when they didn't do that Mark was one of those kind of guys he's a throwback quarterback Mark was say hey run mark would put his hand in the dirt and say hey run this backside yeah oh really run this backside really like he was a that type of I love practicing get Mark for that reason Mark didn't care no K you know what I mean he was like hey T you know that post you got stop sit down on that post don't even go all the way over this sit down he going to throw you the ball so when our quarterbacks when our staff knew that we had that type of offense when it came to skill guys skill set that they can basically just say do something and these guys are going to do it they said they scrapped everything that they had scheme-wise when it came to our passing game and just ran what was effective yeah and I look at um you know offense and I say like when you're trying to design offensive plays talking with Kyle Shawn and you know designing plays at the high school you want to give quarterbacks answers so like you know like with defenses you're like like I want to make sure that like in cover two if you run an out and a go right I got you they thre month I got you don't worry yeah right it's it's fine right there's no answer there but if I run the out converts to a stop and the go throttles in the honey hole all of a sudden we're balling and it's the same call and so I think it's about you know kind of to your point like offenses much like defenses come to life when the ball players are good you know like Fred you've had tough matchups right and it's just like what do I do you know what is my coordinator going to do to help me in this match up like physically I feel like the matchup is there but if if if if the offensive player coach is giving him a level above me with that pen now I'm feeling defeated not because he's better because my guy couldn't come up with something to stop how they was attacking us right and so I look at that and I say like as an offensive guy like obviously you want to exploit matchups but also you want the all five eligible especially in the past game to see the coverage the same because Mark Brunell is telling Tana to run that post stop yeah because they're probably in some type of cover three and that's where the H us Y and they also saying he is number one so when we alert stuff we alerting him out the Huddle once we alert him out the Huddle whose side is he on is he on mine or Blues once we know he on Blues you'll see Lon Landry and Sean switch yeah all right he going to switch because he's the threat he's not the threat and it's it's a respect level there hey man we got two of the hottest guys over here you handle that by yourself back in the back so it's that relationship I think offense have relation too cuz I've seen receivers come out there not say a word to the quarterback just just look just a little bit and change the whole route yeah absolutely and I and I think that's what again like if on on the offense you have to see it the same you know what I mean you have to see it the same you have to see the coverage is the same and it's much more I think defense is extremely cohesive but like if you see if and T like it's been fun watching you run choices and stuff over the course of your career cuz it's like if you see the coverage correctly and you see it the same way as a quarterback the defense can't stop you prime example not a good time Jason um Kelsey Kelsey and your boy they see it like the same like Kelsey has a quarterback mentality when he run his routes he knowing what the quarterback see with his back turn he played quarterback in college Bingo see what I'm saying Jordan Reed too so Jordan Reed was like that and another guy Justin Jefferson and your boy uh Logan Thomas Devonte Adams all they see coverages like the you know they can see it while they enter their route running their route they feel and see it the way the quarterback see it in the pocket yeah see what I'm saying and I everyone have gift you know what I mean everyone don't have that gift now I will say I have the feel of knowing that okay this is zone so I need to sit here you know what I'm saying well this is man I need to keep running you feel what I'm saying I you get the feel all us have that feel but these guys some odd reason they see it the same way cuz it's almost like effortlessly the quarterback and them on the same page they asking theyself if I was throwing this thing right now what would I want my person to do I think that's what they asking they repetition to years just saying MF play quarterback so that's why he probably got that touch already to oh this is a zone I'm I'm not going to go run to you I'm going to curl up right now like I think it's and like yall said if that timing is to the tea we will have problems but we can find ways to kind of move that but once two guys got a connection and they they don't run stuff by the rule no more this SL route supposed to be broken at seven yards n he too tight I'm running him at five you see Kelsey all the time run his route and then just leak out just leak out just I'm going he just knows like he I done I done got them all to come here cuz I sat down now I'm I'm not going there I'm not and no one p stand on the Run he's going he going to hit them you know yeah and I think that's a that's also an interesting point it's like even though a route's drawn a certain way on paper you got to run it to make it come to life you know what I'm saying like like let's say I'm the backside dig and it's cover three and I've got a little 5 yard out underneath me right so we're going to space it I'm not going to I don't want to run a straight stem dig cuz I'm never going to show up in that guard tackle bubble yeah I need to inside stem push vertical and then get in but that's comes from Instinct and feel and like again that's where it's like if you're a high school kid watching this you got to understand like the levels of the timing cuz you can do what you want as long as you get to your spot like listening I went down tight end I went to I went to tight end you and I heard Travis Kelsey talk about this he's like as long as you get to where you're supposed to be to distribute the field and distribute the concept cuz ultimately we're trying to stress defenses right so if if there's two guys in one spot we're not stretching def don't take convention the road yeah but if I can get there yeah and I'm stressing a high low on the corner or a high low on the backer like it's a win yeah and I and I get and I get productive so that's again like where're really good offense is like it's the paper it's the scheme on paper but it's the players the jimmies and Joe's and how they see it and feel it that make them really special Johnson speaking of major in there I'm telling you I have chased Chad and be like go back to the hter dude you know that ain't no route like dude you know that ain't no route right make up something get to spot I got to my spot that's all you need to worry about in the timing of the play too and guess what Carson Palmer new Chad going to take he might take a back R but he going to get exactly to the house he's supposed to get to oh prime example I got chewed out in the practice um and it's crazy man um Big Ups to a guy U Wayne for letting me know that t you're not wrong and and I knew I wasn't wrong for the sake fact I was just young yeah and I I love telling this story cuz you know I've learned this in college that's why I was able to do this my receiver coach Curtis Johnson man he's one of the best he he also coached uh in New Orleans when they won Super Bowl uh he was the um wide receiver coach there turned that receiver group around and now he's the head coach in Houston with the uh UFL but um he told me T you're different from every by else you can do all this stuff at the line of scrimmage cuz you fast so when you running your route I don't mind you putting a little twist to it because long as you get you can make up that speed you can make up that timing with your speed so I'm in practice Paul Hackett I never forget this he and this probably one of the reasons why I always looked at Paul hacket differently you know what I mean I respect him but I never like understood him after this because no coach should have that kind of say or input of or try to have that kind of input when a when a receiver is doing his job any player that's doing his job you should never look at him and say I don't want you doing this because that's not how I coach it no if he making a play you should want him to make a play every time long story short I run I'm running the Dig route back in the day we had that not that end cut dig rout the one the 16 the 16 yard sit down dig yeah and you know on paper they got this thing drawn up you're going to run 14 to 15 yards make your and come back to the ball now if a guy's sitting back there in cover of three what you going to do you going to get him off his spot right as a corner I can't just run that route in front of you you going to be over my back and I have no chance especially if I know that I'm the guy that they trying to get the ball to I need to get some separation so what I did put a little twist to it I run 12 yards I put my foot in the inside of the corner knowing how he was sitting and act like I was running a go route turn his hips when he turned at 15 I sat down came back beautiful route easy everybody was in practice woo Paul hacker throws his clipboard over over there at me don't run and I don't coach that I'm sitting there like the did I do wrong you know he had me but that's what I that's how I fell and I'm sitting there like what did I do and so he chewed me out I'm a young guy I'm probably my second year in the league and Wayne kette said look here that was a beautiful route I can't do it Cole said say I can't do it either he said do it again T that's how he you run your route and that's what he on fast forward the same week play the Miami Dolphins Pat 1 I I got the clip I got that it might be somewhere on my phone he sit identical in between 15 and 16 yards wasn't going to move cuz he knew he had trust in those guys get enough field I did the same thing turned his hips came back caught the ball went 80 he said I can't coach this kid dude that's crazy to me and I was shocked because I'm like bro I made a play it's co like we all and not to just you know hey maybe you coach other guys that listen to you I'm not trying to be uh disobedient I'm just trying to do what's going to make me get separation and how I was taught to run routes you know what's Wild though is that's how everyone runs out right now every single person you want to burst to the blind spot bur to The Blind Side and come and snap back down and you saw me do this for years you see what I'm saying so I never changed it was just a guy didn't like the way I did things always tell about coaches SU say what happens after that but it bothered me to the point it bothered me when when I when I actually left from there I knew why I was really leaving cuz you can't you can't leave in your Prime I'm left I left in my Prime I had a th yards one year the next year I leave the team with 800 something yards cuz and Y not trying to get me the ball and have the most touchdowns and ran a punt back in that same playoff and then I'm gone and I'm saying to myself see and I had a little birdie that that was on the other side of our you know our defense that told me say man buddy just don't like you and I say fine that's fine cuz I'm I'm going go where I'm where I'm loved at you know what I'm saying no it's serious cuz I had coaches try to change my game like I've had that before and I'm like no I'm not doing that like I'm like I'm like listen so just getting back to what we was talking about just the offensive I think that what makes these offenses special when they're able to mold and say let's do what this guy special at you know what I mean let's go let's let's let's work and say okay let's use that because he has a skill set that can be effective enough to make do other stuff that he ain't good that's what I've always battled with when it comes to guys and I think that's a perfect segue honestly T into the air raid CU one of the things about the air raid let's just talk about it real quick so they came around you know basically they said we're going to get more speed on the field we're going to horizontally distribute the field based on formation right at the gate right instead of being in this tight formation with the tight ends and the fullbacks going to get receivers out there move them out we're going to have put more speed period on yeah and have bad coverage players cover good route Runners and force them to change their personnel we're going to operate with uptempo to make them to regulate the defense from a coverage standpoint from a front standpoint so be able to run the same thing but the thing that I think people sleep on when it comes to air raid is like they run mesh so basically the way they run mesh is Imagine two by two they cross the inside guys the two outside guys run big outs okay pre-nap basically they allow a lot of flexibility on that big out stem and if the guys inside lever I'm throwing the big out pre- snap if I'm the quarterback right boom right there at the jump let's say I'm running the mesh and they're in zone I can sit down that's how we run mesh with Kyle everybody but let's say the guy matches aggressively cuts the mesh I can take it over top if I want and those are all the same play yeah I going to say they run the same call just run it effectively and it's just they can adjust Within the play because they only have like 10 plays in the offense yeah but it morphs it it it it's it's like a tree SAR to what it's similar to what RG3 them ran in Baylor because if you watch this totally it was basically they was running a go route or sit down or a comeback depending on how so that so again this is like sorry nerdy nerdy's talk here that's the Deep option route that they're now running in Tennessee so there's not really that element it's the it's the flexibility you're talking about within the route you know what I'm saying like it's it's it's like hey I'm running a comeback yeah but I can get there how I want to get but Tennessee is so predetermined and simple so that's what I'm saying it's it's a different offensive tree and the air rate is like hey we got 10 plays but we've got hey but if they run it if they run two man we're going to run our mesh like this we're going to run our out like this you know what I'm saying oh if it's cover two and we're running four verts like that's where you get the Benders and the vertical and and how that stuff attack to so I think when people hear air raid they think oh my gosh it's so simple it is simple but there's a lot of complexity in each play and the other thing I want to point out just to make it perfectly clear every team in the NFL runs air raid Concepts thank you I'm about to say every team anything three four wide receivers plus yeah yeah uh let me take this tight end out uh uh just running back out and substitute speed is air everybody got a a raid package let let's just be honest from the time that all go and comebacks are are first first I think air ra is anything with speed and Tempo when I say speed I mean speed and uh the Jimmy and Joe's I hurry up offens is area think think about to run and shoot yeah uh the Houston orans Houston that was a eded fin think about Peak Tom Brady yeah all right dude have you read that article about him so I'm sorry to cut you out they had Wes Welker there yeah they said they took I think it was every single play from the uh from the air raid because they had West Walker and they knew we could run them all and we're just like this is our hurry up offense I played against them yeah listen I played against him I like dude I have played against this offense before Kentucky three years ago four years ago they're going to get the ball moving here what they I like they touch what they did on the a because they said you know what you talking about New England New England because they said you know what we going to do speed and power that's when they start with the double tight and when they did with the double tight we can mess with we can mess up with everything else but we didn't have that safety linebacker hybrid that we needed for grunt we a had that at that time yeah so again what's what's the core tenant of offense like we just talked about it's to find mismatches and stress the defense so all they did is they said hey man like everyone's running like triple option power this is when uh Mike Leech and what's the other guys name at Kentucky and they were like shoot man we can't find all these big tight ends and fullbacks we can't find these running back see they not coming to KY so shoot let's just find another receiver put him out there find a quarterback and make it easy pre cuz that's the other thing when you disperse the field and you can talk about this FR yeah you can't disguise coverages the same way no we can't rock and roll to safeties can't move yeah it the offense paralyzes us you got to get to your point you got to get to your mesh point now the only thing you could do is what we did when I was at Mississippi State we was all blitzing team so we weren't trying to hide anything like you knew where the hot read at you knew where everything was going but what makes it hard I think to me is the tempo even if you stop a play they right back up noing like right back right back like they going to get you eventually and that what that what made the Run game for the AR so efficient because now you got these spread out offense that now they got everybody up in space and back then I'm not sure if they do that I'm I'm sure they don't do it now they had they had wider spits at the line of scrimmage crazy so now the DN can't get they can't get off you know what I mean so now you are you basically taking gaps or you getting you getting G gas I was trying to find a word you getting gas man five and six yards a run and you out there you out there leaking cuz you're tired you know what I mean running up and down can't can't get a break can't get in the Huddle and it's so easy again with those wide splits and the wide splits by the offensive line and the receivers to look out and be like remember we talked about on the defensive show how how you want to make sure you're even in the Run fit you know what I'm saying if I'm spread out and I got a back in the back field I got five gaps defensively I got to negotiate but I have the running back who is his own Gap cuz you want you want to be plus one so you need six guys in the box but if I got all this speed i i as the hook player I got to push to the speed I'm worried about him before I'm worried to about and so if I'm the quarterback I just look at and be like oh there's five dudes in the box I'm going to hand the ball to the running back yeah M cuz we have hats yeah and then this guy this guy is wrong I'm I'm out the back side if if that linebacker go the wrong way or if that safety don't come down and and that's why I think what always made it a step ahead of people but I like I like how people have morphed it like and I when when I when I hear it now the first thing don't come to my mind and just throw it all around the Y it's a mixture it's truly a mixture yeah I think when you look at uhas did a great job with it too who Cliff he was in um um Arizona Arizona well I think let's real quick but like I think a team that Fred's talking out that did a great job of morphing it yeah is Kansas City yeah like when Patrick so they went from a team that was a 21 22 12 Personnel West Coast get the ball out and then all of a sudden now you look at it and it's a air raid through the teeth you know what I'm saying and it's that's why he looking for specialist he look for M nobody else can make Hartman work in the league yeah besides Ander re cuz you know what I need you for certain purposes we going to run you are run threat as much as you are a vertical uh wide receiver UIA run threat right so I think that's what make it special but also he got special player Pat Mahomes Jason is there any questions you got about the air raid real quick before we get going anything you're like oh man I don't understand XYZ but it's a Tempo it's a space anything else we're missing there why is it more effective in college than the NFL I hear that a lot that like you can run in in college but you can't do it in the NFL the same way the DBS in I mean in the league well think you you said it too like think about it in the league we can say oh shoot we need we need five pro pro level DBS yeah on the field we got them they're on got in college we can match with your five have one or two special guys out there you got a bunch of third and fourth damn DBS on the field we going to we going to kill them you know we going to make sure his mama had her face also so it's that I think the pass rush is better you know what I mean pass rush and the quarterbacking has a lot to do with it and college is like all all our quarterbacks are okay like every every once in a while we'll run across a great quarterback so I think it's so college is so scheme dependent I think Pro is a lot player dependent I think two things one I think the hashes in college football oh yeah The Wider hashes it makes the space so much more extreme bro that thing look ridiculous so you can't hide coverages the same way you can't hide blitzes the same way it's just like oh can't even do a cone of Blitz there's two dudes over here there's two guys over there they're playing man coverage let me that just suck a rip that guy's blitzing right but in the pros because because it's balanced up I can hide stuff a little bit better I got dogs who can Blitz Even If You're Going Up Tempo think about how smart defenses are now I hey shoot we can get the cover too we can get the quarters we can just call that at the line of scrimmage and we threw a lot of people threw like rushing the the air ra they Rush two yards to get your hands up now so they'll rather knock down like they they say if we play a air raid and we knock down five balls at the line of scrimmage we beating that team yeah in the same way College works like you know Georgia Georgia Tech was running triple option it's like oh [ __ ] we got to prepare for the Triple op it's like it's same with air raid it prevents its own problems and college coaches college players aren't smart enough to develop the new not for one week yes but in the NFL it's like okay that ain't nothing I'm fine I did it I played against demon C the same off and so I think that's why ultimately it doesn't work but I do think when you look at cliff in Arizona you look at Andy Reid and what they've done with their West style West Coast offense and kind of adding uh adding uh air rate elements is the cool thing is they've now they've merged the two offenses and it's kind of become a hybrid offense right so all the stuff that Kyle does so well with shifts and motions and different personnels to create mismatches yeah now you're seeing Cliff do that yeah and that's so funny you brought that up because I let's talk everybody think the air rate all looks the same it doesn't nothing looks the same no Shanahan's offense in in in San Francisco don't look like the offense that's installed in Miami or or in la la but they are the basic the same thing my say you know what we we just like a little bit more motion than y'all and we like to hit our motion running but but but but what we it goes back to what we talked about earlier it's about your skill set what you have we going to cater to what we do best here so like when you look at s Fran you know you looking at a wide receiver that's really a running back so we not going to put we're going to put the ball in his hand now we going to allow him to do things be effective we going to use our running backs Miami we got a track team on the outside so we going to just mismatch you and let these guys just stretch the field you know what I'm saying so it's just bro it's I love looking at them different like wide receivers I want you to dig people out I mean that's a great Point like they they've brought guys and like think about it they so it's the same offense in La as it in San Francisco but they don't run as much outside zone They Run Gap schem more inside running team and then you look at uh Miami and it's like man it looks like the single wing outside Zone Gap SCH pullers all that kind of stuff so wild but I think to your point Fred everywhere it goes it's GNA shift and change like defenses do kind fit the Personnel but um I think it's cool now to see the the differences that that kind of crop up and say oh we can get into 12 personnel and run the same concept or we can get into 12 and get to this run and still get some hurry up Elements which is pretty cool so yes Jason what are some of the negatives of the air raid and why do some teams not incorporate as much in the NFL level and I think you were talk I if I can guess a little bit and maybe tell me if I'm right or wrong you were talking about put your hands up you're not going to ball down slowing like if you can slow their Pace down and get a quick two and out so or three and out then like that's exactly what you want remember when we had aache with Kyle remember that and it was like we it was like we used it to get out of ruts and stuff and I remember going up and be like hey man we should do it all the time I remember we should we should do it all the time CU it's really good for us and it simplifies the defense he goes it's fast three and out in football yeah and when you that like you're stressing the defense like no other right it's the same thing that happened with Chip Kelly like Chip Kelly doesn't run the air raid he runs the spread so the difference between spread and air raid is you're spreading out to run the ball with quarterback Zone read all that kind of stuff and the tempo's there it was two pH it was too fast too and so and so then you say oh we're going to slow it down but the advantage of the air raid is that it is fast you know what I mean because then now the defense can change stuff right they can be like oh we're at the line of scrimmage you guys are chilling yeah shoot we'll get into whatever call we want it's just like I love whipped cream but I don't eat buckets of whipped cream you know what I'm saying I use it as a topping and I think every Playbook has a array section called third down like I think third down turns into third down hurry up yeah yeah hurry up yeah just simply hurry up a 3 minute 2 minute like so it's there like um uh pay man them rent AR to extent like like reg wouldn't even come off the FI they would standing right they were running the same plays depending on you know to the coverage and I mean it's not it wasn't a but the principal was just like it and I used to ask Reggie like why you just stand out there he's like bro we got five plays Payton gonna look at his his thing and say he gonna call a color and we going to know which one we running so I'm like well damn that's like hurry up all over again so everybody got it and I think that's the other thing the air gives you because there's not a lot of play volume you can do stuff like that where it's like hey I'm at the line of scrimmage it's like I don't like that concept versus the shell let's hey whatever hand but that's why Peyton would wait us out that's that's what the long give you a hard count yeah oh Omaha omah hard ain't changing it Chang but he won't ever go inside 7 second cuz he know he can time you up after 7even we can time him up we can time the BL up so he won his snap right in between 10 and 7 Seconds anything else we can time you up a blitz and then we're we're digressing here but that's what made pton so special is that he had he had the offense at his disposal and it wasn't as it wasn't as complicated as people think but he basically say I have a man beater I have a Zone beater I have a screen I have a run yeah let's go he was a coach playing quarterback oh no hard to stop for a counter back like you got to be just you got to be ready so I think that leads us really nicely into the next section which is what can we expect from Cliff's offense here in DC I think I think it's going to be similar to what he did in um AR you know in Arizona I think one of the things that you see already before they even get out there and pass is uh you have two Dynamic running backs maybe three you know and a young kid that we we got in last year I mean when you have that you know and it's been said that you know he leaned on his Run game way more than what people give him credit especially in 2022 you know and when you have a Young quarterback you're not trying to put so much on his plate you know what I mean you want to simplify things to to to extent to where look man if we could take pressure off by letting these guys in the back field eat and do what they do now making things a little more simpler for him because you got to think offense is a defense is going to already have that in the back of his head he can take off he has a good arm and then they got a good run game when you have all three of those things going for you you got to play on your heels you honest honest as hell you got you almost sitting out there you know what I mean scared to not know what's going to be expected of these guys when they line up so to me I'm just looking at it from from the outside right now I haven't really just watched enough practice to see and I'm pretty sure they're not going to show us anything until it get close to the time and we're not going to probably be out there but I would see him leaning on that run game yeah a little more than what people might expect what do you think Fred I think it's going to be good because I always look at what did you do with a player when you was just getting into this league he had Kye Murray all right uh I look at Jaden Daniels I think they we could say they the same exact speed both of fast guys uh both of them can really wing it but one happened to be 63 64 yeah when he call those plays for kylo most of those was roll outs and stuff trying to get him clear looks yeah and even how they set the pocket was set the pockets on all of that he don't have to even address that with this quarterback so he's going to be on a more neutral uh calling playing field and he understands that as much as we love to see jayen run he's a throw first quarterback people need to understand that he's a oh everybody is checked let me take off and run so I think with with with Cliff he's going to understand like Tanner just said especially for this young guy need to marry this this run game first M all right passing game I think first couple of game look for a lot of running back screens a lot of wide receiver screens a lot of quick throws a lot of throws that he got Clear Vision of where he's going he got he ain't got a guess no guessing I think he going to take all the things and we all can agree that we always thought he did a good job with Kyler coming out yeah I think he going to take all the things he felt like he failed with and make sure that he doesn't do that with this guy and let's be honest our guys are I think their athletic ability is the same but I think Jaden is a better student than Kye was I was going to say I was going to say let's not say he he actually fail the quarterback himself could have had some efficiency some self yeah some self initiative to this thing yeah 100% so I think you know you look at again I think there's going to be air raid principles what does that mean there's probably going to be some Tempo they're going to spread it out they're going to try and find easy pre-slap looks before practice get them uh before before the ball snapped and get them defense to declare coverage I think that'll be there but that's in every offense I think you're going to see different Personnel groupings like even in practice you see them out there with multiple tight ends or Running Man beaters or run do all again ways to dictate to the defense because if I'm in 13 Personnel hypothetically yeah you can't be out there in nickel cuz I'm going to run the ball down your Thro unique right so how do I again how do I goes back to that core tenant yeah how do I mismatch find mismatches and stress the defense and I think you see that I think when you bring in a guy like Brian Johnson who was part of in my opinion one of the more in ative offenses from a quarterback run game standpoint I think it's part of it but if you look at what made that great they they basically brought triple option to the NFL right I think you're going to see a little bit of that I think you'll see a touch of this and basically what I'm saying is Cliff's a smart guy yeah he sees where NFL offenses are going he knows how to get that done so you're going to see a touch of touch of that Philly Run game everything a touch of the outside Zone what about that 49ers Run game touch yeah with exact like we will had it with coach Van like we have and I think he's good at saying you know what what would y'all do in this situation where you just came from yeah so I still think he's still one of them coaches ain't over here skis like no we just going to do it this one way no I need I need all of this education right and you see that even at practice just in terms of the concepts are running those aren't the concepts they're running aren't traditional air raid Concepts but they are applied to the system does that make sense so we're going to operate with a signal we're gonna operate with Tempo so it's just fun to see a smart guy yeah innovating football he's got his background his backbone right but he's got we got multiple tight ends we got play action we got motions we got shifts and it just it's it's blossomed out kind of what you're saying the a raid's a piece but there's other big building blocks that make this offense go cuz I need multiple ways to be people yes that's exactly right so let's get to our last segment is how do our guys fit in this thing and let's start with the quarterback Jaden Daniels Fred you want to start us off oh yes I will he fits well fits well I I don't see offense he doesn't fit well in like his skill set says whatever you need me to do I can do it now the question is how fast do we refine him do we slow the game down for him or do we Speed the game up do we protect him with the Run game do we protect him with quick passes what are we going to expose him to like it's just like a child whatever you expose them to that's how they blossom to be right so the question is with Jaden Daniels how much how soon right I'm with yeah I'm I'm I'm dead on with that and I I think that's going to be something that they probably get a get a good understanding at you know coming out of these practices and into the training camp they'll they'll know how much we can give them and how much we can't you know what I'm saying but I think it's going to be fine I think this offense is is is great for the you know we actually went after a quarterback that was available for us that was per that fit perfect for the offense that we had far you know far as our scheme and our coordinator I totally agree and just to see his uh growth and maturation over the first couple weeks of OTAs A Min Camp has been really exciting you mentioned the student Fred talking about him compared to Kyler Murray to me not even I mean not dude he's he's an animal and that's great to see and then you get a guy like Terry talking about and this again speaks to Cliff's flexibility how he's going to be used at multiple receiver spots and I think again like that just allows you another way to create mismatches T right what does that do for you as a receiver to be able to line up multiple spots you know I loved it when I was able to play XZ and then play the slot I think what it does for you is just it keeps the it keeps the defense now not knowing if you just cuz you got to think most of them time if if you see a guy line up on the side of the tight end you oh he's the Z you know what I mean he's on that he's he's not the he's the strong side but he's the Z he's off the ball if you got a guy like myself or Terry who can now you can just move or you can base your your your offensive up set around him you don't even have to move him say all right we going to make this strong we going to make it weak now that is that just make it harder for them to like pinpoint him and say we're going to Cloud him or whatever you know what I mean like I remember when Shanahan them in 2011 said T we don't move you to X cuz the X get more balls in his offense they moved me to X and they took me out of the offense now you got you got you got Jabar Gaffney over there he eating I'm sitting over there like bro they just putting a cloud on me coach backside I'm not doing anything now you have that that structure with this offense like Terry just you know alluded to it's not necessarily going to be a X or a z or a g I'm just going to line up and based on where I'm at on the field I'm going to be that you know that position yeah I think that's great I also think you don't have to change the formation be like hey man you're the F we want to get you the ball go to the F they're getting the ball let's make that happen and it it also makes it it tells me that they going to treat Terry truly like a number one I don't feel like he's been treated like a number one like he's never been force fed the ball like never force fed the ball and I always say and I always laugh and receive cuz they all come out there thinking they F to catch 10 touchdowns on you in a single game and I'm like dude they don't even move you around enough like I always tell a dude if you keep coming to this right corner they really trying to get you the ball well I talked to my buddy who's the OC in Minnesota about Justin Jefferson it's like it just gives you so much flexibility because he plays everything because he got every spot right so it's like oh he can play the X he can play the F he can play the Z he can crack he can run and we can get him the ball and what if this week he playing against a young Richard Sherman and this just ain't a good match up for you but Richard only plays left corner right like well yeah I'm going to put him in the slot like I'm not going to give your best chance to tea off your best player chance to te off on my player 100% so think that's that's a great great thing and then let's talk about one more guy before we finish up and that's Brian Robinson yeah I think a lot of people are worried about him you know in the sense that like hey it's a he's not getting a lot of touches I think he's going to be awesome say and ecka I respect ecka but you know the young bull is the started running back one is Brian Robertson do you understand that and what he did catching the ball all right it's hard to hit little rece I mean little running backs that you know jittery your spros they they hard to stop on third down but it's even hard hard to stop a big back that can catch yeah a big back can catch and break tackles and and one or two broke tackles in the NFL usually equal a touchdown it's just the way it goes and everybody cannot break tackles I would not be shocked if this Brian Robinson's best year and everybody would say last year was I say he have a better year this year no I'm I'm with you man and the other thing is like the last day OTAs they're running like um allo special Tana but he's doing it from the backfield working the seam dude hitting back shoulder ball you know I'm saying like he's and he's such a big guy yeah yeah you know you forget how big he's a football player like he told me last year I'm a football player anything they want me to do I can do so needless to say we're all really excited about this uh this offense Cliff kingsberry coming in see what it looks like much like the defense we want to see how it changes to fit the personnel which I think was T's first point right at the gate got to fit your personnel got to maximize them but that's going to do it for today's show thank you for so much for joining please make sure to like And subscribe whever get your podcasts and uh that's it defense you guys ready yep are you ready are you through chewing whatever you chewing on cuz I know you you probably just kept some in your JW for the last three hours and just St back chewing three two one and go welcome to the command center podcast I'm Logan Paulson here with Fred smoo oh I'm getting I got to focus up here sorry sorry here we go three two one