The Fly | Deep-Dive Movie Review - Cronenberg and Goldblum's 1986 Film is A Masterpiece

Intro [Music] hello peoples and welcome to esoterica cinema the program where we take films and discuss the hell out of them my name is Jason Peters and with me as always is the man who trains arvar for Fun and Profit Mr Ryan seos what's up Jason how's it going buddy good good dude you guys all got that Wildlife over there Florida and you got that like conservative make that money mentality beautiful uh business you got hey man look I was looking for a hobby I opened up the dictionary got to artvark AA stopped right there said we're done I'm done deep that's all we need yes absolutely artar it is yes but uh actually despite what our audience may think we're not here to discuss artar we're here to discuss a movie one hell of a movie Ryan do you have a description for sir hell yeah brother today's film is the fly from 1986 and Description Ooh Baby are we getting into some body horror now directed by our friendly neighborhood Canadian doombringer David Cronenberg the fly tells the story of Seth brundle played by Jeff Goldblum as he attempts to invent and perfect teleportation Gina Davis co-stars as reporter Veronica and the two proceed as a super duper ill- fated Lois and Clark of sorts when a fly Finds Its way into brundle teleporter it merges with Seth taking us on a wild horrific ride of De Evolution also co-starring John GS as yet another 80s douche canoe a part he plays made me better than anybody else on the planet this film was made on a budget of $15 million and brought into Box's office of $60 million I believe it's one of his most successful to date so a nice win for our boy D Crohn's there's not a whole lot to this movie that about sums it up so before I get WDYTATM-Like/Sub/Follow/Rate caught in a fly trap of spoilers I'll throw it back to you as always and ask you Jason what did you think about this movie bud and as always Ryan I'm going to be happy to tell you but first do want to tell our audience if you dig what we're doing here on the show best way you can help us out is to go ahead give us those likes Subs rates and follows uh leave us a comment if you're watching on YouTube if you're listening on the podcast you can send us an email esoteric Cinema gmail.com so Ryan let's Opening Statement – Jason go ahead and get into our opening statements here as far as I'm concerned in many ways the fly is David cronenberg's most accessible film which is likely why it's also his most popular and successful and it makes sense why you know structurally if we look at it the film is a concise well-executed three-act structure it heightens and steadily progresses to a satisfying and well earned conclusion we've got two characters with undeniable chemistry they collectively occupy like 90% of the screen time playing Seth brundle and Veronica Quai which I did not know it was her last name and is a little odd but with uh the only third person being stus borens I'm telling you Cronenberg has uh has a way with those last names man grundle qu and borens so love it you know it makes for an easy story to follow we don't have a ton of characters to keep track of we've got a really brisk Pace the Practical special effects still impress 40 years later and while many of cronenberg's other films tend to take on what I'd call Art film sensibilities right uh the fly maintains this like determinedly popular sensibility but it also stays true to his vision you know so despite some gross sequences it's an exceptional and surprisingly emotional story of a man who flew too close to the Sun and ended up paying the ultimate price highly recommend this film to everyone except the most squeamish sorts Ryan how about you buddy this is one of those films Opening Statement – Ryan that a lot of us myself included had seen when they were younger and absolutely forgot what a banger this is it wastes no time as brundle is teleporting Veronica undies in the first few minutes there's also very little fat as we Buzz along through this film skipping quickly through each stage of Seth's transformation I was pretty surprised at how engaging this whole thing was considering the minimal location changes you spend most of your time in brundle Warehouse it's a very small cast like you pointed out exclusively consisting of gold Blum Davis and gets just like you said also you kind of know what's going to happen going into this film there aren't too many big reveals or twists and turns it just kind of is what it is so all of this led me to a few conclusions here that we were watching a tour to force of acting by gold Blum first off paired with an understanding of what this film was or wasn't by Cronenberg all brought to life by the makeup and effects Wizardry of a one Chris whis and we're going to talk about him ad nauseum here in just a bit Gina Davis steps in as not only a love interest but also sort of a voice of the viewer or the audience adding in a nice dose of empathy into an otherwise horrific situation this film stands as a testament to not get drunk and do science kids you may laugh you may cry you may throw up a bit in your mouth but one thing I hope you do is love this movie as much as I do absolutely man yeah it's a it's a really wonderful film and I'm looking forward to dissecting ah yes so many fly puns to start the show I love it yeah man thanks for playing by the way if if we have enough we need to get like a little like digital fly in the little corner and like just buzzes every time we make like a fly pun like one three so there are Cronenberg’s Directorial Approach (edit jason intro) several aspects of the film that really work to deliver this wonderful experience that we have with the fly and I think that the first of those has to do with sort of like the overall direction and execution of the film by David Cronenberg with regard to like just the basic elements of film right like story pacing tone plotting character development all that sort of stuff right like a lot of the films and especially the ones we've been looking at recently maybe outside of society have a tendency to be kind of ambiguous and open to interpretation you know we're looking at films from filmmakers that don't want to put everything on the the screen necessarily to tell you what it is they want you to take it back and think about it whether it's possession or the square right and this is very much not those films you know this is like a sort of like an old school sensibility to this film which is interesting because I don't think David Cronenberg is generally speaking somebody that you would think of as having like mainstream sensibilities right but at the same time I don't think that he ever sort of like sabotages who he is or what he's into you know I think that he sort of recognized that we've got like goldbam and Davis with this obvious chemistry that would be foolish to sort of like take away from and it ALS he also adds a lot more Humanity into this film than just making it like another you know sort of like gross out feature so I think that's sort of one of the things that I was most interested in is again just how very traditional of a story this is in the way that it's told not necessarily in the way that you know some of the the the choices that it makes um the first half almost feels just like a romantic comedy so right it didn't feel lacking it didn't feel like it didn't have enough substance and so um I was really interested by how the it was like it was simple but then it also felt really dense you know does that make sense yeah no absolutely this is like the world's best peanut but butter and jelly sandwich you know it's just like it's simple it's to the point it's not anything it doesn't need to be and yet it's the world's best that you know what I mean like yeah it's just the perfect movie for me this has got Ryan's name written all over it I love this film so so much 95 minutes let's go right into that the the old Infamous Ryan Ryan 95 Minutes special yeah let's get it let's cover that real quick because that's important you know uh we joke and tease um on this show about how Ryan loves a good brief movie get in get out but also I would say that in this particular case specifically um this movie was so efficient it you know it was just like so streamlined it wasted no time getting into it like I said in my opening statement within the first few minutes you're already back at his apartment or his Warehouse of sorts he's talking to Gina Davis you've got two of the main characters already in play he's showing you the teleporter and describing what's you know kind of teeing up the rest of the film so you're deep into act one already within the first few minutes in consistently throughout this movie he isn't afraid to storywise drop you into the middle of things for example um Gina Davis's uh relationship with her uh 80s douche canoe ex-boyfriend um SL editor I guess or publisher of sorts um she's a reporter St correct yeah staus so um you kind of drop into the middle of that relationship uh you drop into the middle of the teleporter scene stuff and all of that that's going on he's consistently of the film too like the way it starts off is just right in the middle of talking to Gina Davis in the middle of the party like yes there's no walking up the steps there's no you know hey how's it going I'm so and so it's like hey let me tell you about this thing I'm doing you know you got a minute it's um I I feel like Cronenberg trusts you as the audience and I felt really cool about this that like Hey we're all big girls and boys here like we got this figured out let's go ahead and uh show you some [ __ ] because we know what you're here for you're here for the fly and boy are we going to get to it uh you know and waste no time so um and then it ends at the perfect time so you know keeping on the back end of that concise um you know expeditiousness or or you know value package uh that Cronenberg has put together for you here um as soon as the movie's over it's over roll credits there's no touching sweet ending there's no you know uh uh you know Fade Out or I mean just it ends roll credits he he you know sad ending tragedy and moving on yeah and that now there actually is I do have something interesting in response to that as well and I think that's one of the aspects of cronenberg's work that really makes it work is like Cronenberg is not somebody who's afraid to try things out and then leave them on The Cutting Room floor you know uh we've talked about the expression Kill Your Darlings right yeah and we see a number of examples of Cronenberg doing this not you know on the film because a lot of the stuff was left off but in doing some of the digging and the research and all of that um he was not afraid to cut cut cut whatever didn't work so famously we actually you know talked a little bit before the show about that deleted scene and for everybody watching there's a there's a a seven minute deleted scene that takes place right in the middle of the movie that actually features a combination of the baboon and a cat that he tries to send through the Transporters and it mistakenly splices and like he gets attacked by it and he has to beat it with a pipe and um you know then he's going onto the the what is it the rooftop and then he like has this leg growing out that he like ends up ripping off and so it's like that stuff was all you know they spent money they spent time like uh you know it's it's not just the Superfluous uh imagery that they're getting rid of or anything like that so in on top of that getting back to this and how this relates to the ending is that they actually tried multiple different endings so the very first ending that they had was that whole thing happens and then we get a Fade to Black and then it comes back and we actually see that Gina Davis is in bed with staus and she's getting out and that was what they went with in their first cut and they played it to audiences and they were so pissed like if they had tomatoes they'd have thrown that at the screen right like they did not want Veronica to end up with status by any means and then they said they went through like three or four different kodas right just sort of wrapping up like here's a scene of what happened afterward and you know showing Gina Davis pregnant not pregnant with status without Le status they tried so many different combinations and would present them in the test screenings and audiences hated them all and so what Cronenberg realized is like it was such a tragedy with that ending that after uh brundlefly you know is is shot and dies like the audience doesn't want anything more like they're just they're sad they're done they want to go home it's exhausted have a good cry about it they're exhausted exactly yeah so it's like there's no follow-up scene that you can do that's going to give them any level of satisfaction like just let them out that's all they want they just want to and so that's what they ended up doing and that's Works to the film's benefit you know it's fantastic I will say that when it comes to staus and Rundle fly and all of that um I have here in my notes that it really does suck that these seem to be the only two people in Veronica's life she has no one else to turn to it's like you know do I go back with my ex or do I stay with this human fly Beast it's like B there's third options here you know you don't have to choose between these two so I don't know yeah absolutely and you know let's also mention that a huge amount of the success from this film comes from the The Film’s Somber, Serious Tone overall sensibility with regard to that tone of compassion and that tone of somberness and all of that that goes with you know both the film and screenplay which we should acknowledge by the way the screenplay is a David Cronenberg rewrite of a Charles poke script which is based off of a short story by George langeland that appeared in Playboy and so when Cronenberg speaks to pog script you can tell that like it wasn't where it needed to be by any means and it probably wasn't great but cronenberg's a very genuine guy and he you know he he gives a lot of credit and he's like oh dude you know a lot of the could say that he came up right she's Canadian nice right that's all you need to say I'm sure we have some Canadian viewers out there you could say Canadian but what I love is that you know rather than like there are so many people that would have done this like the blob right like where it's just like he's this Friday the 13th Jason serial killer who turns into a mutant it's like blah I'm gonna go and like terrorize the world right and he's like right scaring old w women and kidnapping babies and then we've probably got like a you know a a cop whose relationship is on the Rocks who like really needs to catch this guy to save his marriage right and yeah it would be like very wrote and traditional like that so but but by taking this and rather than going that route with it doing the whole Creature Feature but then almost marrying it to being like a story of like illness you know and and there's a very strong relation between the degradation of the Seth brundle character and the way that he is slowly turning into this fly and the Frailty that accompanies that after that initial burst of strength that he he realizes and it's interesting in to see how it affects his psyche you know how it affects the psyche of the woman that loves him and along the way it's making Illusions to what I understand are you know very significant and you know traumatic moments that are shared by people who have all manner of various diseases and illnesses you know it's like when he's looking in the mirror and you know he's he finally notices we've seen the hairs growing out of his body by now but he you know it's kind one of those sobering moments where he finally sees these these hairs growing out of his face and he's like you know trying to cut them off and it hurts too bad and so he gets frustrated and you know breaks the razor and throws it in the bathtub and all that and so you know my understanding is that that's you know people who have suffered from cancer and AIDS and all of these very you know debilitating de diseases that that's kind of you know that that sobering mirror moment is sort of something that is is shared among many of those people and so to take that and IMB that in here gives it this universality and and sense of compassion that would otherwise be lacking you know sure I mean that's something any of us could relate to regardless of I mean it could be a cyst or a zit or you know like you said skin cancer or anything but there's always that moment of you looking in the mirror and saying what in the [ __ ] is that I should get that checked and then you know you do and uh oh so yeah um just hope that you're not turning into a fly and you know you got something a little minor and everything's all right but yeah I thought that was a tremendous scene and yeah and you know I just can't stress enough that we're you know we're dead smack in the middle of a body horror series so far we've done Society now then possession now the fly we're moving on from that um and it did cross my mind to your point here that you know I grew up uh in a Christian household and you know and in my very younger formative years my youngest formative years uh in the early uh the late stages of satanic panic and um you know I was constantly taught that you know oh horror movies are evil and and heavy metal is evil and blah blah blah and the older I get and the more influence I allow myself to absorb the more I start to notice that the hard harder core the metal uh heavy metal music or the deeper the body horror usually the more empathetic the message like the more open you know this stuff is and you know it's like more like innocent and like happy like the the creators are right like like go goer is a perfect example like they're having their moment in the sun right now because did the Olympics and everyone's like you know finding these like hardcore medal dudes but if you actually look at their lyrics it's all about like how you know we need to save the environment and be compassionate towards people and so you know like people don't realize that for these people it's all just a stage act you know like like Brian yusa is like the nicest dude Cronin B nicest dude you know and then you got zovsky with possession healthy people talking about misogyny and communism and making political statements and of this stuff and feminism and it's just like man like there's so much built into this stuff that uh you just passed by because you're like ew Blood and Guts evil demons blah blah blah it's like yeah but yeah dude even even modern day filmmakers like James Juan he's like the nicest most like polite and just softspoken dude you've ever seen and it's like you made the Saw movies and Insidious and all that and he's like yeah yeah I did so I was sold a bill of goods as it were a bill of goods when I was a kid these movies are great with a positive message yeah interestingly so I did happen to listen to the commentary track that's on the Blu-ray and one thing I thought was very interesting is again you know it'd be very easy to see the makeup effects and you know just cronenberg's reputation and think of this just as some exploitative cheap horror movie but David Cronenberg literally describes this and and this is a quote here he says it's quote ultimately a story of two healthy eccentric people who fall in love one of of them gets sick and deteriorates until the other has to help them commit suicide that's such a depressing summary but that's absolutely what this film is and so again you know for someone coming through and being like Oh that's a you know exploitative video nasty with no substance to it like just listen to that description and tell me there's no substance there you know right yeah and On Jeff Goldblum, Geena Davis, and Baboons so not only has Cronenberg brought substance but again you know moving on to our next bucket of sorts as we like to them here uh gold Blum and Gina Davis uh definitely give this movie substance they are the heart and soul of this and you know I just I was racking my brain to think of who else could have played you know this character of brundlefly so perfectly and brought so much empathy and heart to otherwise you know horrific and terrible situation and it's just you know you don't want to say it's relatable because you know he's turning into a fly based on a you know transporter fictitious sci-fi thing that's going on um but he does make it feel relatable and and and Gina Davis uh you know her Counterpoint to that you know kind of holding up a mirror and again like I said in my opening statement she almost to me uh my point of view was that she was acting more or less as the voice of the audience or the point of view of us I I just I wanted to see you before you have to leave now all the way to the end um you know she still had empathy towards this and and uh could not bring herself to pull the trigger until he said it was okay and so um yeah it's just [ __ ] heartbreaking stuff to an otherwise silly you know graphic horror yeah of course you know from the very first frame it's very obvious that Gina Davis and Jeff gold will just have an undeniable chemistry and that actually makes sense because I didn't know this ahead of time but after the fact it turns out that they've been dating for some time prior to appearing in the film together they actually like weren't sure that they they didn't really know that it was a good idea to get her because like they're dating and is that going to be like weird and all of that um but it's also funny because it makes a lot of sense to one of the aspects of production that Jeff goldbam was talking about which is he said that he sort of very sheepishly admitted that like in real life like not playing Seth brundle but like Jeff Goldblum was like very territorial so to speak speak about like his relationship with Gina Davis and and John and John gets being like so close to her and having this relationship and so he was like hopefully it helped the movie but like basically he's like I was I was actually very jealous in real life and so when they would be off doing a scene together like I would just sort of show up and like make myself like visible to Jon and the background and stuff and like so obviously the one of the animals that we are repeatedly exposed to in the film is the baboon right and so what the [ __ ] was that can you just get a baboon in the80s apparently you can just get a baboon in the 80s yeah yeah experimental baboons you can do that you know uh yeah you want a baboon I'll get you a baboon give me the I'll take the uzi I'll take the kilo of cocaine oh you got baboons great give me a baboon gonna need a baboon yeah now apparently in real life baboons are very aggressive and so one of the I guess they sort of shied away from them because they can be very aggressive on set you don't say it's a [ __ ] baboon but the funny thing is that because Jeff Goldblum was such a big guy and because he had to have this ripped physique and because of his ripped physique he's doing that thing that actors sometimes do where before a scene he'll um and he's going to appear shirtless he'll like lift a bunch of weights or do a bunch of push-ups so that he gets that like nice swo look you know yeah I do that on this show too I do that for us yeah so uh so so because of all of that the baboon ended up looking at Jeff Goldblum as the alpha male so I guess at one point they were saying that the baboon became severely attracted to one of the production assistants oh super aggressive and so like Jeff Goldblum had to like come over and like gorilla like yell at it and like it backed down and [ __ ] because gold as the alpha male so which we all do Jeff gold is always the coolest guy in the room right he's always the most something in the room yeah right yeah Jeff Goblin will be noticed I did not know um a I I don't remember him being so smoldering but apparently this dude was just jacked and tall and lean and mean um I was not expecting that at all but I was like oh Jeff Goldblum is it it was akin to um seeing Leslie neon in the Naked Gun movies when he was all ripped uh and [ __ ] they put like his head on somebody else's body or or put there but um yeah I I it was like I felt like I was seeing like ripped Steve Bushi or something cuz I'm used to like you know kind of nerdy Sleek uh kind of witty and and quirky Jeff Goldblum but I was like oh okay sure this was a this was a new Jeff Goldblum for me you know you w you of course have the smoldering meme of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park laying with his shirt on button and the perfect lighting but uh this this even took it a step further I was like man he's got abs yeah no he actually he was really into like he really put his all into this role like he understood it was a very physical role and so in addition to just all of the physical work that he's doing as the brundlefly version of the character he also did you know make a point to work out and get in good shape for specifically for the scenes after he transports through the the transporter and he's you know getting all strong and ripped and stuff like that sure and Absolut so it's funny because you know there's the whole um Olympic sequence right the little mini Olympic sequence where he like does the thing on the chair and he put his like body completely out like a Cirus performer and then he does like the imbalance bar sort of stuff they actually used uh gymnasts for that role um that's so yeah so that when you like pop out to the side you know you can tell it's sort of a stunt devil um but they actually got gymnasts and apparently the funny thing is like gymnasts will train for years for like one performance so one of the things that Cronenberg was like surprised by which makes sense after the fact but like he couldn't just do 12 takes of that with one per performer the iy would do it like three or four times and then be like dude like my body is spent I don't know if you realize how much goes into one of these performances you know like this is just something I can do for you a dozen times so he ended up burning through like uh I think three different gymnasts um and uh and and even that was difficult to cast because gymnasts are inherently so small and compact right but gold is the opposite he's 6' five and lanky as hell yeah he's like so he's like so I had to find the absolute tallest gymnast I could find who's 5'8 he's the absolute tallest gymnast in the world and he's 5'8 man yeah yeah and here's the thing you know as far as the two of them are concerned I I do think Gina Davis is is good in this role I don't I don't think it's a you know standout Superstar best supporting actress type of role I think that you know it's it's good I think more than anything it's the chemistry that she has with Jeff Goldblum agreed that really steals the show um but Jeff Goldblum himself is an absolute Rockstar through the entire time like this is his movie he knows it he came to play he gave his all he's not just you know working out and getting ripped he's also really speaking to the degeneration of his body right um though the way that he you know has the Crazy Eyes behind the suit right as he like sort of gets closer and closer to being the fly and he's doing all these little ticks and stuff like that you know I think that we always respect when an actor really like digs into the physicality of a performance right like it's it's one thing it's always you know lovely and impressive to hear a magnificent orator get up and you know do the 12 minute MC Beth speech and all this stuff right like that's wonderful but at the same time just seeing someone like a like a legit thespian like someone who is an absolute A-list Rockstar actor like Jeff Goldblum watching him become a fly like it it just there's something more even more special about it right because it's like we know character actors right like we know some you know uh uh Andy Circus right if you see Andy Circus do the fly you're like that trends like it's a great performance but like yeah that's what he does you know uh Jeff Goldman is not that you know he's the you know tall dark and handsome you know look at that smooth eccentric guy to your point so seeing seeing him take on you know becoming a fly and everything that goes along with that I think gives it that added weight I agree I I would also add to that real quick that um it's rare you get a Jeff Goldblum leading performance he's always like the coolest part of a movie but he's also like he's like the mac and cheese right like you always love the mac and cheese but it's a side item but he you know it was a rare starring performance for him uh as far as M what I could remember and I was all in for it I'm surprised more of these don't exist yeah well and on that note interestingly Jeff Goldin was not necessarily their first choice now it's The Unlikely Road to Production not like he was their last choice or they necessarily had a first choice in mind that was one of the things they were having a really hard time figuring out who was going to be this guy because of everything that went along with that and Jeff Goldwin was not a bankable star at the time to the point that like it was one of those things that like someone sort of threw out as a joke like oh what about Jeff Goldblum ha right and then like the room goes silent and it's like yeah what about Jeff Goldblum right now this is the one interesting story I'll just do real quick David Cronenberg was their first choice but DAV David cronberg had actually already agreed to do Total Recall for Dino de lenus so they so the producers including including Mel Brooks had to get another director and he was a very young guy and the short version is that unfortunately he was from South Africa and he woke up to a phone call one day and his daughter was murdered in like an apartheid battle unfortunately Jes so they like held off on making the movie for a month and asked him if you know he would pick it back up and he couldn't do it and they gave him another three months and he still had to unfortunately back out in that time David Cronenberg ended up walking away from Total Recall because he had done a year of development and then had one conversation with Dino de lenes who went oh no that's not what we're looking for it all we want you to do Raiders of the Lost Arc but like in space and David gr was like well this will never work good day to you sir I just walked away right then and there and was like I I don't make Raiders of the Lost Arc anything that's not what I do so he was then available and so Stuart reached out back you know back out and was like Hey I understand you're available what would it take to get you to do this movie and he's like three4 of a million dollars in my own crew and they're like cool how about a million dollars in your own crew he's like yeah okay done sold right so yeah so that's how that got made couple things you skimmed over very briefly let's go ahead and talk about number one uh this is uh Brooks film um and Brook uh exec produced this if if I'm not mistaken so yes sir I I did not know that until the credits rolled and and we had covered this before for elephant man that Mel Brooks intentionally kept his name proper off of these films so that people didn't think they were comedies they would still take them seriously but he produced and gave a shot to a young upstart named David Lynch uh to make the Elephant Man and now we're doing it again with uh old boy D Crohn's and the fly so throughout the 80s um Mel Brooks was super sneakily responsible for some very crazy dramas and sci-fi and horror bangers so credit where do the next thing I would just tee up is men I would love to see cronin's Total Recall I do think ver Hoven did a great job amazing I wonder how much of the the Total Recall we got if any of that was left over from those designs because I guess it was several years later I mean we're going back to ' 86 I don't think recall came out until like early 90s mid 90s so I'm sure verhoven but and yeah like quad and and the the Mars stuff and all the things yeah yeah I feel like that would have been right up cronenberg's alley and I also will say I don't think we got Raiders in space I think it trans you know transformed into a more sci-fi horror movie uh that you know I think would have been closer to cronenberg's Output so would have loved to seen that I also uh I'm going to need you to say South Africa properly it's South Africa s South Africa South Africa mate South Africa it's like it's like Australia South Africa kind of you also touched on Howard Shore’s Score um Cronenberg old DE cronn uh and this is by the way our what is it our third kronoberg movie we've covered on this show we did The Brood we did video Drome and now the fly um and a running theme through all of that is exactly what you just pointed out and then I'll toss it back to you after I kind of tee this up and that is that he loves to work with his own crew he has all the people that he is comfortable with and he brings them along including this go round with a one Howard Shore who godamn it just gives his all for all these movies we talked about this in The Brood where you listen to The Brood and it's like who is this guy scoring like what movie does he think he's making this this score does not fit this movie and I would argue that this film is elevated yet again by the Howard Shore score the Howard score if you will Howard score and um yeah do you have any uh any input on that or or do you want to talk about that a bit yeah I mean I think one of the more interesting aspects of it is just how it very much plays to the emotional beats of the film the way that any you know really strong score does but it's also not afraid to be used in a sort of bombastic fashion you know so bombastic first it's a little bit bit more subtle but then by the second half of the film we're getting these hugely operatic cues even an interesting story about the first screening that Mel Brooks watched where on the way to the bar that Seth brundle is going to ultimately break the dude's uh wrist at there's a very quick shot of Seth brundle like aggressively walking down the street and the musical cue during that is like it's like uh Cape Fear like right and so like uh Mel Brooks ended up approaching David Cronenberg after the initial screening and he's like hey that one moment where the guy's walking down and the music's super loud he's like do we think that's a little much because he's just walking down the street and Cronenberg looks at him and he goes well he may just be walking down the street but he's also about to walk into his Destiny and Mel Brooks goes fair enough and that was that we talked about this um with shudder Island as well like how bombastic the music was to just the most simplest of things uh when scorsi did that so yeah similar type of effect yeah An Unorthodox Approach and I do also want to say that as far as Jeff goldm not being their first choice the the the studio actually didn't even believe in Jeff gold so something had happened where when this film was being made there was like a change over in the leadership at Fox Okay so and so a new guy came in and you know melbrooks and Stuart went to him and they're like hey you know we're making this movie The Fly blah blah blah you know we're we're we're still casting it and you know we're thinking about Jeff gold and he looks at him and he's like I'm here to tell you that that is the absolute worst decision that you could possibly make however I'm going to let it be your decision that you can live or die on so I'm not going to tell you you can't get Jeff goldbam I will tell you that's an absolutely stupid idea and it will never work and yet right I I was racking my brain of who else could have played this role and I was coming up short like who else would I have wanted in this you know in this scene and I you know I think that I just don't I can't imagine this movie with it's it really is his film yeah exactly you know and even down to you know taking what could be really like cheesy material and and delivering it with a certain like Pathos and gravitas that gives it like the intended impact you know so he's got that sort of now famous little monologue at the end about you know insect politics and how insects don't have politics and how you know Gina Davis needs to leave because there's going to be a certain point of no return where he's just instinctively going to hurt her because he's now more more fly than human I'm saying I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man I loved it but now the dream is over and the insect is awake no when you're a half fly half monster under a ton of latex with contacts and weird teeth and stuff like that you know and and that could very easily just come across as like super cheap easy but to have a a real actor you know a talented actor bring everything to that and take it with the seriousness and that's the thing is everybody takes this seriously you know I think I I imagine Cronenberg has to really appreciate that someone like Jeff Goblin will take this so seriously because it's like he probably meets actors who are like yeah I'm doing the weird Cronenberg [ __ ] he wants me to you know do some thing about insect politics whatever right like um you know I'm waiting to do Hamlet or whatever but like here comes BL like I will [ __ ] crush this fly monologue with every fiber of my being absolutely watch me go yeah yeah because previously you know with video drum you're talking about James Woods who did a suitable job and Deborah Harry you know did a great job with that but nothing like this and before that I I even forget the actor's name who was in The Brood there's going to be some viewers that are watching this that are swearing at their screen right now but um yeah I mean we kind of said how soap opera e that that performance felt you know kind of going through so yeah to all of a sudden Goldblum who was just driving it home it's like oh my God like this is what's up absolutely and you know the other defining aspect of this film that we can go ahead and like talk about in some weirder detail would be you know the art Special Effects, Makeup, and Art Direction Direction and makeup and special effects and just the overall look of the world the sets the creature itself and you know we got to give all the credit in the world obviously we' talked about Chris whis right and he's responsible for the Seth brundle and the B brundlefly Evolutions over the course of the second half of the film and you know he's a stud in the industry he's probably best known for his work here on the fly but also was responsible for bringing us the Gremlins which is one of my personal favorite movies yeah uh amazing practical effect film not to mention uh you had mentioned he did Enemy Mine I believe yes he did yeah and you know and I think one of the great things about it is that in in in approaching it in a practical way where it's this guy in a suit it allows gold Blum to bring that Humanity you know I I I imagine one day effects will get to the point where eyes look like eyes but I think that's still the one thing that you'll always be able to key in on when you're watching even the best CGI is like eyes will never look like human eyes because when we talk to people like that's what we're used to seeing we're used to looking people in the eye and so we're very familiar with what the human eye looks like and so I noticed that as I was watching brundle fly so much of his communicating when he's you know in this big latexy suit and not really able to emote to the same degree that he is usually with facial ticks and stuff he lets his eyes do so much of the communicating whether they're wild whether they're tired whether they're sad and so you know by doing this practical effect you know guy in the rubber suit sort of approach it allows goldbam to bring the humanity out of that character uh it's almost sort of like a it reminded me of like a Phantom of the Opera type of character or a hunchback of notra dam or something like that you know where you know we he's figured and he's gross yeah or elephant man but we feel that sympathy and you know deep down uh he's got a good heart and we allow that to come through so again just instead of being like ah look at that gross monster you know we do feel that pathos for him of course and then of course you know we've also got all these practical effects right just the absolute crazy like moments where we've got Goldblum in the bar he's arm wrestling this dude and like breaks his wrist you know we've got like the climax of the film with brundlefly vomiting the acid on stannis's hand and Ankle that disintegrates them both that doesn't even take into account the deleted scene we talked about with like the baboon cat hybrid and then the insect leg coming out so you know in addition to just doing like the suit itself um Chris whis and his team was also able to execute some some really excellent use of practical effects in the form of all these fun moments you know yeah they want an Oscar for it best makeup so good for them absolutely we also have to give credit to the production designer and art director so that would be one Carol Spear and one Ralf Harvey respectively and they were responsible for taking some of the of the previous screenplay where the writer was sort of thinking not in terms of David Cronenberg film right but just like a general science fiction film and so Cronenberg being Cronenberg you know a large part of his distinctiveness is the visual sensibilities that he brings to his films sure and so but but a lot of it is sort of stuff that he tasks to these very talented people that work with him so for example one of the elements that he had to sort of like liven up in like you know Cronenberg by three times if you will is the nature of the actual Transportation cabinets so when they were initially conceived in the initial scripts they actually were just made of glass they were made entirely of glass and they were more boxy and rectangular and they really did look like phone booths so the funny thing is that I I didn't know this before looking into it but apparently David Cronenberg is a huge Gearhead when it comes to like uh Vehicles so specifically he loves cars and he loves motorcycles so he takes uh Carol and Rolf into his personal garage and he brings them a motorcycle and he's like you see this engine right here you see how it has all these sort of little lines and stuff like that he's like the teleporters should look more like this they should look industrial here let me just take this out and so he like cranks out that the engine takes it out and hands it to them and was like make the teleporters look like this and so they were like okay and so that's when they ended up going back and you know giving it that distinctive look where you see like the ridges in it right and it's like sort of black like you can almost imagine it as a of like mechanical a cog in some sort of mechanical machine you know yeah I mean it has a a bit of a Giger vibe to it having just come out of alien Romulus and seen uh a lot of aliens movies recently been a very aliens Vibe because Romulus just dropped so U yeah also I didn't know this beforehand but it's it's all over the Tag Lines and Promotional Rock Songs place but the tagline be afraid be very afraid came from this movie be afraid be very afraid right where we've heard it a thousand times I didn't realize it came from this movie it's the moment where Gina Davis comes home and sees uh you know uh Seth brundle with the woman that he's come home with from the bar she looks at him her delivers the line and this line actually came from melbrooks himself too it wasn't actually in the script but he uh David cronberg was talking about that moment with Mel Brooks and he's like I think she should be afraid and Mel Brooks is like well yeah she should be afraid she should be very afraid look at the situation was like I could totally picture of saying that too yeah and then the last thing that I'll share that was my most F that is one of my most favorite of the entire thing is the fact that Ryan did you know that for the fly Mel Brooks insisted on them going and having a promotional rock and roll song written for the film no I did not obviously this is the 80s this was a big marketing thing that came out in the 80s right like you would have like the hit song uh Kenny loggin Highway in the danger zone you know may the tiger all these different things and so of course the name of the song they contracted was called help me right because had to be when it came to Cronenberg he was like cool and then was just like I can't use this where like do you know the film that I'm making like where would this go but like they had already contracted it and paid for it and so Mel Brooks was actually quite insistent he's like no no no you need to use it we paid for it it's great for Mark everyone wants the the song we got to have the song for the music video and all that right and he's like okay but it's a rock and roll song like just watch the movie just watch the just after the first screening if you still think it should be in there tell me and I'll find a spot for it so like Mel Brooks walked out and like yeah you're right we can't use that in that movie that wouldn't make any sense like because he was literally wanted him to put it right after they cut like when that first Chris whis credit comes up we cut to rock and roll so you imagine this like hugely traumatic you know the Seth Rundle dies and Gina Davis collapses to the floor in tears while Stannis you know just lost his hand and then it's like help me buddy I gota help me buddy right like whatever it is like he be so emotionally wrong for that moment and so they realized after the fact that it wasn't so they actually did find a place to put it in the movie and it's the background song that is in the bar he to help me find [Music] way so if you go back and you watch that scene and you hear that background song know that that was supposed to be the marketing song with a music video and everything for David cronenberg's the fly which is insane the only song I want to hear at those end credits as they roll is sweet sweet victory by SpongeBobs they give me that while the credits roll some movie needs to do that for me I want to hear that so Ryan now Top 3 Moments – Ryan that we've gone ahead and wrapped up our formal review let's go ahead and get into our top three moments from David cronenberg's the fly uh let you kick us off what you got buddy my three favorite moments are Seth and Veronica in the apartment for the first time or the warehouse of sorts uh the chemistry the gold Bloom Charming wit uh the way Gina Davis volleys with them back and forth it reminded me a bit of um gold Bloom and Laura D interacting in Jurassic Park just that good witty banter just good chemistry kind of tease up the whole rest of the film they're establishing a lot of their relationship right up front uh that is going to lead you through the empathetic uh world that they take you on along the way uh the next one is the medicine cabinet scene the National History Museum of brundle as he calls it I believe something along those lines so um yeah I love that um when he's pulling things apart and then he opens the medicine cabinet you see all the pieces of him that are falling off just such sweet sweet chef's kiss 8s horror stuff um this is also kind of when the movie s uh like when you hear the last click of the roller coaster and start to descend cuz right after this it's just all downhill from there just [ __ ] starts to hit the fan and then of course how could you not mention the finale we know it's coming it doesn't matter it's so cool and gross and heartbreaking anyways uh when brundlefly takes that gun and puts it up to his Temple and lowers his head as if to say it's okay please kill me I've never felt so bad for a pile of mutant nonsense goo in my life right it's so sad like I said in my opening statement Bravo Goldblum Davis Cronenberg and all of them for building all of that heart into the situation throughout the film uh and super kudos to Chris whis of course for being able to see it through and pay it off the only thing I would add to that is if you're going in um like uh John gs's character um to go save somebody and you're going to go be the hero put the gun together first before you go in there when he went in there with the gun in the case then he opens the case and he starts assembling it all I'm like bro what are you doing you're in danger I'm in danger you need to get out of there or put the gun together a little faster he's like hold on got to screw it got to click it and then put this and I'm like oh my god the guy brought Legos to a knife fight so anyways uh those are my three favorite scenes how about you Jason absolutely so uh number three I've got the first recognition of those thick Top 3 Moments – Jason hairs on his back you know early on he he rolls over on like this microchip thing and then it sort of exposes this blood and then that's when Gina Davis is you know rubbing his back that's some point and she notices these super thick hairs on his back it's it's just weird and gross enough to let you know that like something's going on and as as a sort of starting point for the inevitable weirdness and and hugeness that is to follow later it's a really really effective starting beat for yeah all of that's going to come later the second that I would have is actually the first reveal of of brundlefly when he comes out and he's on the crutches and he's he's wearing the rubber gloves the yellow rubber gloves and all of that because he's he's so weak in that moment like we've just gone from seeing you know regular Jeff Goldblum who's a specimen in and of himself to immediately post Transportation Jeff Goldblum where now he's a gymnast and he's going for three-hour Marathon sex sessions and you know grabbing women and throwing shoulder and working out to insane degrees and all this stuff right you know and so to go from that to just him walking out on these crutches and thin and wafish and his hair is falling off and and he's all deformed and everything and just the just the the decrepitness with which you know Jeff goam carries himself through that it was so shocking and it's so you know again for a movie that is really all about the emotions and the somberness yeah it does a very good job of of giving us that and then you know on the other side of that just because I love me some good oldfashioned gross out horror uh my number one is at the very end of the scene where brundlefly vomits acid on both the hand and angle of our status character completely melting the hand melting off and it was funny because that's actually there's two shots when the acid is vomiting out where we actually see that it's the only time that they actually use a a rubber construct of brundle so it's not you know they they didn't set up like a tube beside Jeff gum's mouth and then shoot him so that it looks like it they like actually had the acid spewing out of the mouth because they made a rubberized reconstruction of brundlefly so there's two different shots where they use that and it's the time where he he vomits the the white acid on his hand and then again when he does it on the ankle later so so when you say that there's a uh a missing potential ending uh that they did away with after test screenings where stais is in bed uh with Veronica I almost wonder if he did or did not have his hand and foot in those scenes they probably they probably kept him under under the bed right it's like oh Stannis you're under the covers you're sleeping she's going to get up and we're going to follow her you remain sleeping right that's like easy way to get around that's something like that yeah love those three moments and then of course that brings us to our next feature three adjectives Ryan give a quick breakdown of three adjectives before you tell us what yours are three adjectives are how you would describe this film and just a brief little word or two or a little dose of word play if 3 Adjectives – Ryan you just walked out of the movie theater and your friend text you how was it this is what you would say to them and I'll give you some examples my first one you kind of touched on earlier uh but I'll go ahead and say it anyways 8 oz fillet Manan it is a super lean Juggernaut cooked to Perfection and was the perfect amount on the plate just absolutely simple but the best version of that thing uh and you want it over and over again as often as you can my second one is because of all the things and my third one is uh stage play because it does kind of play out like a stage play it's mostly on one location in his Warehouse uh it is mostly three people and so you really could do this is a stage play it kind of felt that way and I felt like they were taking the acting as serious as that um I will just go ahead and add that uh it's my understanding Howard Shore made an opera of this film that played for limited engagement so I would love to get a hold of some of that footage of a Howard Shore scored in written the fly Opera see that that's amazing I would love to see that I I'd pay good money for that for sure how about you Jason yeah I was uh so you know try to take a 3 Adjectives – Jason few different approaches at first you're just you know you got three words and then it's almost like uh it's almost like owning a cat you know your your very first cat name is a regular cat name and then it evolves and by the time you get to like your eighth name it's like Oh Mr pudding pants Esquire the Third how lovely to see you you know so uh the this this uh iteration of three adjectives is inspired by Jeopardy categories so like each three of these could be Jeopardy category first is a somber affair right it's just it's it's which also speaks to it sort of like literary qualities which which could also just be more like theatrical qualities like you're talking about right but it almost does sort of feel like some sort of like it could have been like a Victorian era romance but it also just happens to be set in the 80s with crazy sfly this could be the black plague or the Bubonic plague or something you know what I mean like absolutely absolutely someone that loves somebody that's getting sick and slowly dying same thing yeah absolutely uh untraditionally traditional like I said you know it's very traditionally assembled and made and shot you know even just literally the directorial decisions of okay you know let's let's get the two shot and then let's go in for the coverage you know single single shot reverse shot it's not a ton of you know Dolly movements uh and then third and finally we have mutate oama because for as much as this is also just a somber wonderful experience um you know there is a good amount of uh creature goodness and mutation stuff and teeth falling out and hair falling out and oh yeah Jeff goldw crashing through the window you know in full latex man in the rubber suit when she's trying to get the abortion and all that so like there's just so many like fun little moments of that you know horror and Gore and and and all of that that we love mixed in with all of the you know legitimate approaches at somber storytelling so somber Affair untraditionally traditional and mut Rama Star Ratings all of this adds up to a star rating for your boy Jason of four and a half out of five stars really loved this movie near perfect experience um every time I watch this you know I watch this every two to three years and I'm always reminded of how wonderful of a film this is and I can't imagine that that score ever dropping any lower than that how about for you sir dude I'm giving this five stars and a [ __ ] yes to this movie hell yeah dude this is the perfect film there's nothing I can find that and I would watch this right now I would watch this tomorrow if you want to say watch it with me right now like yeah let it roll I'm down I love this movie five stars so that wraps up hour review of The Fly four and a half from Jason five stars from Ryan wonderful film both of us couldn't recommend it higher do you want to remind you if you do enjoy what we do here on the show please like subscribe check out the website give us those ratings all that fun stuff really helps us out for myself Jason Peters for my boy Ryan seabold this has been esoteric a cinema enjoy the movies