Keith Morrison talks Mommy Doomsday. The Karen Read trial draws a crowd

hey good morning you're listening in to dateline's morning meeting at 30 Rockefeller Center this story is just breaking as we speak our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country why do we think there's going to be an arrest Maran have you gotten anywhere yeah I actually spoke with her sister Destiny I'm Andrea canning welcome to Dateline True Crime weekly a podcast where I get to dig into the stories making headlines this week every Thursday I'll be talking to NBC News reporters fresh from the courthouse and dine producers on the ground finding out what you need to know so let's get started it's May 16th and here's what's on our docket this week Keith Morrison will join me to talk about the triple murder trial of Lorie Val's husband self-proclaimed doomsday Prophet Chad debel you just want to know how their brains work a woman accused of murder in Boston says she's Being Framed by the police we had neighbors and relatives testifying there it is so complicated they even made it their own chart but for our first story this week we've got an update for you on one of the most hotly anticipated Trials of the summer with just two months to go until actor Alec Baldwin stands trial for the 2021 shooting of cinematographer Helena Hutchin on the set of the movie rust his defense team has launched another legal Salvo to get the charges against him tossed Friday morning at 10:00 Mountain Time a Santa Fe judge will listen to arguments from Baldwin's attorney that the prosecution can't even prove a criminal offense took place this case has of course had wall-to-wall coverage from the very beginning Alec Baldwin was seen outside the sheriff's office in tears prison is not necessarily the goal potentially putting the Hollywood star in the role of actor and defendant all at once where we stand today is Hannah Gutierrez Reed the movie's armorer is in prison about a month ago she was convicted Ed of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to serve a year and a half at the New Mexico Women's Correctional Facility but for you Miss Hutchins would be alive a husband would have his partner and a little boy would have his mother please take her Baldwin who was holding the gun that killed Hutchins is facing his own charge of involuntary manslaughter unless his defense team can get it thrown out so what's in Baldwin's new filing how has the prosecution responded to it and what can we expect if the judge decides aldwin's trial is still on here to answer all those questions is NBC News correspondent Khloe Mass Chloe thank you for joining us thanks for having me tell us about this new motion that was filed to dismiss this case what are the main arguments yeah this latest filing you have Alec Baldwin's team saying that the prosecution has to prove that our client consciously disregarded safety standards on set that Alec Ballwin consciously disregarded a substantial risk to Helena Hutchins yeah the defense says that Baldwin didn't know there was a risk at all let alone ignore the risk Alec Balwin has maintained in multiple interviews even one with me that he did not pull the trigger that the gun just went off um and you know he doesn't know how live bullets got into the gun that it was declared cold when it was handed to him which means you know safe safe to use right no live ammunition exactly you know the prosecution they're going to say though that Alec Baldwin it was his fiduciary responsibility as a producer on the rust film to also hire you know competent people to work on the set you know and that armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed's decisions and actions ultimately fall on Alec because he was not just an actor but a producer do you think that there's any part of this that has Alec Baldwin's character his personality on trial here 100% there were a lot of reports that Alec Baldwin and his family were being followed around by a camera crew that Rory Kennedy was one of the filmmakers and that there were two documentaries in the works um in a recent filing the prosecutor said that there was a plea deal on the table and that one of the reasons that they revoked it was because of these documentaries and Alec Bowen's team they had a field day with it with their latest filing saying you just showed your hand how could you come out and tell us that this was one of of the reasons that you removed the plea deal I mean these are not real reasons if the judge decides that the trial is going forward this is going to be a really big deal in the media this to me is very similar in terms of public attention uh like public appetite to Johnny Depp and Amber herd where we saw their defamation suit playing out on television and people were just glued to it and people are going to be focused on Alec Balwin that camera on him his demeanor is he going to be talking outside of the courthouse is he going to take the stand himself will Hannah testify we know that she told her mom on a recorded call from prison that she doesn't want to help with this trial she doesn't want to comply with subpoena because Alec didn't show up for her during the trial and I think we're going to hear from people in Sag you know about whether or not it's really an actor's responsibility to check that weapon on a movie set and are you allowed to p point a weapon towards somebody because Alec claims that Helena said point the weapon towards me during this rehearsal in the church and if you talk to actors you know many of them have come out publicly and said you should never point a weapon toward someone because you cannot take that chance and any idea how long the judge will take to decide on this new motion to dismiss so I don't think that there's any sort of a deadline but the trial is supposed to start July 9th and I think that we will have these answers before the end of the month do we have any sense of what Helena Hutch's family would like to see in this ruling from the judge I mean we know that some family members have settled a civil suit with Alec Baldwin are they on board with criminal charges so following Hannah's conviction Helena's mother and sister released the following statement we look forward to the justice system continuing to make sure that everyone else who is responsible for Helena staff is required to face the legal consequences for their actions meaning everyone else well there's only one other trial that's looming and that's Alec balwins you will be there Chloe NBC News will be there yes all right Khloe Mass thank you so much we appreciate it thanks for having me after the break we'll be joined by a very special guest and Dateline family member Keith Morrison he's going to fill us in on his own strange Journey leading up to had day Bell's trial plus we'll get the latest from inside the courtroom hello I'm Keith Morrison here to tell you about something we think is pretty cool a new One-Stop destination for more than a dozen Dateline podcast series epic stories of Secrets betrayal and of course m murder it's about as cold blooded as anything I've seen from the True Crime original it's dat line Originals binge old favorites discover new ones and keep up with the latest twists the entire catalog is available now completely free search dine originals and start listening now for our next story we want to take you to the Ada County Courthouse in Boise Idaho and a triple murder trial that's already in its seventh week state of Idaho versus DeBell two dead children buried in the defendant Chad Dell's backyard the next month his wife is found dead in their marrow bed that's Chad debel self-proclaimed doomsday prophet and fifth husband to Lorie valow who has been the subject of various Dateline episodes in Keith's podcast mommy doomsday in 2021 Chad and Lori were charged with the murders of Lor two children along with conspiring to kill Chad's first wife tamy Chad was also charged with Tammy's actual murder Lori stood trial last year is Lori naren bow not guilty or guilty of firste murder cancer guilty now it is Chad Dell's turn and he has pleaded not guilty before we get to that we wanted to check in with a person who has been hot on De Bell's Trail since Lor's kids were first reported missing he is also o my good friend and colleague Keith Morrison welcome to the first episode of dine True Crime weekly Keith thank you for having me I feel honored to be on your first show so what do you think is so fascinating about this story it has sex it has romance it has religion it has children in trouble it has people doing unspeakable things so who who was Chad dael and how did he meet Lori when he started out he was like a lot of young men in small town Utah he became a Morman missionary then he came home and he he married Tammy they had five children and then he began to write books about the second coming about life after death he began to have these theories that some people who were dead were not really dead and some people who are alive are really just zombies who were actually dead but he would go to conferences and Lori went to those and was completely captivated by him and by what he was writing this is where the Love Story started that's right yeah and um he and Lori getting together was like Nitro glycerin yeah good way to put it the first we heard of the story came from the grandparents uh who were reporting their grandson JJ was missing and they had been trying to contact his mother Lori and the authorities went to do a welfare check and uh she was all happy and greedy at the door uh but something was off so they returned later and by then they were gone they just vanished um took off to Hawaii which is where you went you went to Hawaii to yes to try to find them and we did encounter them at one point and one of our producers approached them on the sidewalk is head out no comment where are your kids there's a lot of people who are worried about your kids are you guys worried about them there's a moment in one of your dat lines where you visit Lor's storage unit in Idaho and you're surrounded by photo albums a a child's bike and and you you seem you seemed upset Keith and and you I don't see you get upset all that often well you open the door and there they are their favorite blanket their childhood things and you knew the children were dead then we found the video which showed Chad and Lori going in and out of the uh storage facility and he's patting her on the buom uh and going on with life as if they're just having a grand old time is there a thought they were saving their children somehow because they had become zombies they had to be killed in order to be saved um that notion seemed to be somehow banging around in their heads are there any questions that you have that you think perhaps could be answered during Chad's trial well I want to be able to talk to these people you just want to know how their brains work do they retain these ideas even after all these terrible things have happened or do they try to excuse themselves from these ideas I don't know but I'd love to know we would all love to know Keith thank you so much for joining us today and uh for being a part of our first episode we appreciate it thank you it's as I say I'm quite honored as I mentioned earlier it's week 7 in the daybell trial and here to bring us up to speed on how the case is unfolding is East Idaho news reporter and NBC News consultant Nate Eaton he was with Keith all those years ago staking out Lori and Chad DeBell in Hawaii now he is sitting just feet from Chad in the Ada County Courthouse in a break during testimony Nate called us from his car to fill us in hi Nate thanks for being with us thank you Andrea good to see you yeah as we said you're fresh from the courtroom so what's happening who was just on the stand the person just on the stand was a an expert in tools and they were going through the tool marks that were found on Ty Ryan's bones that were left behind and determining what could have caused those um tool marks it I have to tell you it left an impression on the jury because it was um so graphic that is difficult testimony to hear you sat through Lori Val's trial also what is different about this one with Chad I would say the main difference is he's facing the death penalty so the stakes are a little higher if if he's found guilty also the death of his wife has really been Center at this case Tammy davel Tammy deel a vivacious healthy mother was another individual labeled as a dark Spirit to be removed you will hear from multiple Witnesses the Chad predicted multiple times that Tammy would die and die Tammy's autopsy photos were shown in court those were so graphic that we did not see them but they were shown and the medical examiner took the stand and very confidently said she died of asfixia she had bruises on her upper arms you you could say someone was trying to hold her down what did you determine her manner of death to be a homicide Chad was said to be acting strange after her death right his stories kept changing as far as how she died he told his sister-in-law that Tammy deel had gained 40 pounds and die of an embolism but they called up not only the evidence from the Fitbit that show she was getting 10,000 steps a day she was active she was a in a clogging class and they called the clogging teacher that's a first clogging teacher to the stand yeah Tammy has certainly been key but we're also hearing more about the kids murders how does Chad tie into that well the big tie in is they were buried on his property you know just feet away from his back door but um there hasn't been if everyone's looking for a Smoking Gun of yes his DNA was on the scene well it wasn't and there was physical evidence from Lori and her brother right Lori there was that hair that was found on the uh body of JJ and then there was physical evidence of her brother Alex's fingerprint on the duct tape that was used to WAP JJ do you think that it's possible that Chad could get convicted on the conspiracy to commit murder uh for the kids but not first-degree murder it's very possible and if that happens then he will not face the death penalty Chad's defense attorney John prior there's been some drama with him right in fact as I'm talking to you Andre he's walking right by my car we are on the lunch break so he's outside there is a gag order otherwise I try to get him to talk to you I was just gonna say throw him a question yes um he uh does does not have a lot of experience with criminal work especially of this magnitude uh the judges had to you know call him out a time or two for talking over Witnesses and judge it's non-responsive Mr prior you just ran over me stop cutting people off in your cross please including me finish he's doing his job when do we expect the prosecution to rest and the defense to begin I imagine the prosecution is wrapping up we've had over 60 Witnesses so far and then the defense will take over and they could take a week or two all right Nate Eaton thank you so much and we'll be checking back in with you again soon thanks Andre all right coming up after the break we've got the DAT line Roundup we'll give you a few fast takes on breaking stories and we've got the latest on a case out of Boston that's getting a lot of attention a woman accused of murder who says she's the victim of a [Music] conspiracy within a couple of seconds there were a number of armed security with great big Airport machine guns an Autism patient daring escape from NHS psychiatric care pits her against some of the most powerful institutions in the state from the multi-award-winning Sky News storycast team in partnership with the independent follow patient 11 wherever you get your podcasts [Music] welcome back to the show my next guest is here to give us the DAT line Roundup he's one of my all-time favorite producers Mario Garcia so tell us about what headlines caught your eye this week hi Andre as always you're too kind um so we learned something new about the investigation in the death of the pastor's wife Micah Miller as you no doubt remember she's a 30-year-old woman whose body was found in North Carolina State Park last month and her friends and family suspected foul play last week the medical examiner report came out with finding and they say that Micah did in fact die from The self-inflicted Gunshot womb however this week the Sheriff's Office that's investigating the case revealed it has been working with the FBI and their investigation is ongoing so what exactly they're investigating at this point is it's a little unclear but we'll keep an eye on that one and keep you up to date all right and next we're going to head to Arizona Arizona yeah where a 40-year old Melody Johnson was sentenced for a crime that she plad guilty to she spiked her husband's coffee with bleach prosecutors have been asking for four years in prison but she'd already served about a year in prison and so she got three years of Probation and some people think that that sentence is very light uh she also said was ordered to undergo mental health treatment I thought it was kind of interesting that the guy actually did a sting himself he got hidden cameras and hid them and caught her in the act so uh that was kind of a if you think your coffee tastes odd maybe set up hidden cameras and your final story Mario that you have found is out of Atlanta it's something close to a story that you worked on it is actually a story that air just this past Friday called Sound and Fury it was about a DJ that had his wife killed by his best friend and he worked at a strip club in Atlanta Club onx when it's a large Club a lot of music gets broken there and they say over the weekend that up there were two mass burglers that broke into the club through the ceiling I envisioned like uh Tom Cruz in Mission Impossible the cables then they used power tools to cut open the safe and they got away with $250,000 probably all in ones but um that's that's not a small Hall no never a dull moment at Club onx indeed thank you Mario for this week's dat line Roundup thanks for having me for our next story we're heading to a Boston suburb and a strange scene on the steps of the Nori County Superior Courthouse I tried to save his life I tried to save his life at 6 in the morning I was covered in his I was the only one trying to save his life a woman accused of murdering her boyfriend is surrounded by a crowd of supporters said it feels we're the only ones fighting for the truth of what happened to John O'Keefe who is she her name is Karen Reed She's accused of backing her SUV into her police officer boyfriend after a drunken fight and leaving him to die in the snow she says that's not true and has one of the wildest defense theories we've heard here at Dateline and we know who spearheaded this cover up you all know yes we do if you haven't come across this case before it all started 2 years ago on a bitterly cold winter morning in January 2022 Karen and Friends of her boyfriend of 2 years Boston police officer John o'keef found him lying in a snow bank outside the house she dropped him off at just a few hours before you can hear Karen screaming on a police officer's dash cam video you can't make out what she's saying but multiple Witnesses who were there told investigators Karen said I hit him oh my God I hit him it is now week five of the trial and according to prosecutors Karen's reaction was a confession what's more they say there was proof her car had a broken tail light Karen's defense team has told the jury don't believe a word of it they say Karen is Being Framed by a group of childhood friends many of whom work in law enforce M to cover up what really happened their claim is that some of them beat John O'Keefe senseless and dumped him on the street in a blizzard my next guest is dine producer Sue Simpson who has been on this case since the very beginning and actually got a chance to talk to Karen Reed herself with our own Dennis Murphy welcome to the show Sue thank you Andrea nice to be here yeah tell us about that interview when did it happen and how did it happen Karen spoke to us in March of last year and it was her first interview as far as I know to the media and I ran over to him and his eyes were swollen shut he had blood dripping out of his nose um he he had blood on his face he had cuts on his face Karen did you say something like I wonder if I hit him I said did I kill him I said could I have hit him I have to tell you Andrea it's it's rare that you meet someone who's so articulate and so well spoken about her own case and um almost you could see her acting as her own defense attorney and it's I mean you and I both know very unusual for a defendant to do an interview before trial she appears uh as somebody who has nothing to hide and who has uh a compelling argument just one thing for instance this tail light this broken tail light which is at the heart of the prosecution's case she says look you know when I went out to look for him early in the morning I backed into John's car as I was driving out of the driveway and I hit my tail light then there is video which doesn't show that exact angle but which helps to support her story one thing she has maintained is that she did not run over John absolutely she says that she sat in the car and he left within minutes of him exiting my car is not answering his phone minutes and we pressed her on this did you see him go into the house she said I saw him stick his head into the opening so she definitely believes that he went in the house yeah one of the things I'm confused about so was she drunk or was she not she is very clear uh in our interview that she was not did you ever feel you were over served that night as they say no so a test was not done because she wasn't spoken to until the next day correct well a test was done the next morning and she was over the blood alcohol limit so this could be one of the defense's biggest challenges this blood alcohol level because you know the prosecution believes that she had tooo much to drink simple she ran over her boyfriend it could be one of the biggest points we are still in the prosecution phase of this trial what have been their main points so far well you get the sense of their strategy now is to make sure you know that witness after witness is saying J O'Keefe never entered that house we are going to make sure that you know First Responders heard Karen say I hit him I hit him I would say though so far the prosecution is saving the CSI portion of the trial uh they have uh DNA they say of John O'Keefe on the tail light on the car uh these microchip fibers of the tail light in his hoodie that sounds very damning it does her defense team is claiming that he was beat up they are they say that he went in the house uh and that somebody in the house headed in for him now they've got a number of candidates one of whom is the nephew of the homeowner the nephew was you know in his teens and was um sometimes throwing beer cans on John o' ke's lawn and the defense says maybe he wanted to you know show John a lesson then first we should talk about Brian Albert so Brian Albert the homeowner was on the stand last week and he was uh under cross-examination he's key because he had the Afterparty at his house a former Boston police officer first responder the defense wanted to make this point a dead man is found on his front lawn and Brian Albert does not come out to investigate there was an ambulance there so that's uh been a big sort of question mark Brian Albert's story has changed a few times and the defense has made a big deal out of him possibly destroying data on his phone well yeah so he's testified to this he said I I upgraded my cell phone and so the defense left upon him and said you destroyed data is it a coincidence that happened a day before you were get getting a state order to preserve that phone well one of the things from the defense is this accusation this was a sloppy investigation done by the local police yeah and and listen you and I know that this is often a fall back for the defense attorneys in any case right in this case you know there are compelling reasons to believe them you know a tent wasn't set up over the snow uh when where John's body was found uh they didn't even put caution tape around there are a number of people that have been put on the stand who've said no I didn't talk to an investigator for nine months 10 mon months a year and a half afterwards and a new one collecting evidence in red Solo cups that never heard that before that's a first right that is a DAT line first and some people might think Karen Reed's conspiracy theory you know seems far-fetched but this the day of opening statements an audit began of the local police department it did and in fact there's a federal investigation into this investigation it's really opened out the Fisher in this town there's some Fierce Defenders of Karen Reed um who managed to collect a a crowd of of followers and and they have created a circus outside this this gracious Old Courthouse they would actually have on occasion booed John O'Keefe's family uh I know you've been going to the courthouse and did I hear you right you've been actually arriving to court at 300 a.m. you did I take my soccer mom chair and I need to get there I tell you Andrea it's the fight of my life because only the first first 10 media people are allowed in this small courtroom wow yeah but it's it's it's worth it you're out there you're braving the elements and you're thinking I'm really covering a story here that is fascinating well as the correspondent on this case Sue I look forward to putting this all together with you I feel like you're doing the heavy lifting showing up at 3:00 a.m. so very much appreciated for that and also for your all your insight into this case for us uh for dayline True Crime weekly thank you thank you Andrew [Music] that's it for the first episode of dine True Crime weekly we'll be here every Thursday from here on out next week we'll be talking about the latest in the trial of the man charged with murdering the Idaho college students when can we expect a trial and more about Brian cober's Alibi he was stargazing and coming up on Dat line this Friday after the death of a 44-year-old mother at home is ruled undetermined friends and family Battle For Justice and she said to me Susan something's not right and you have to do something about this tune in Friday for an episode we're calling The Sisterhood that's 98 Central on NBC or stream it Saturday on peacock thanks for listening D line True Crime weekly is produced by Franny Kelly our associate producer is Carson cumins our senior producer is Liz Brown Koff production and factchecking help by lesie Gman keani Reid and Sara Kadir Veronica MAA is our digital producer Rick Quan is our sound designer original music by Jesse mcy Bryson Barnes is head of audio production Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of dayline okay busy day thanks everyone bye okay bye hey guys wiie gist here reminding you to check out the Sunday sitdown podcast on this week's episode I get together with Glenn Powell to talk about his recent run of movies that have made him one of Hollywood's most in demand stars from Top Gun Maverick to the Blockbuster romantic comedy with Sydney Sweeney anyone but you and now the new movie Hitman which he co-wrote and stars in you can get our conversation now for fre free wherever you download your podcasts