On Side Podcast S2 E5 | Clean and Gold: Chris Nunn and Ahmed Kelly

there's four countries we've been working with who won't even have the chance to compete so ethically tim it was a matter of do i go don't i go and i just didn't feel right and for me covert has highlighted the place that sport is in society it's a nice thing to do but it's not an absolutely essential thing to do the biggest component of integrity for parallel export is the classification system without that the games just don't exist and it has also now become the biggest barrier to participation for developing countries we all know paralympic games is uh you should be able to expect the unexpected but at the end of the day i know what i need to do i know the the training that we have been putting on will give us a great chance to be on that podium for me i've been surrounded in paralympic sports and being able to see how people with a disability get around and do their own business and that also inspires me to do better [Music] welcome to onside the official podcast of sport integrity australia our mission is to protect the integrity of sport and the health and welfare of those who participate in australian sport [Music] hello and welcome to sport integrity australia's clean and gold podcast series with the tokyo olympics completed and the paralympics underway i'm tim gable alongside miss the triple olympic gold medalist from the 2004 athens olympic games sport integrity australia's patria thomas on today's podcast we'll be speaking with veteran paralympic track and field coach chris nunn chris has served a number of roles in the paralympic movement including as the head coach of the australian track and field team and chris has decided not to go to the tokyo paralympics we'll find out why shortly also joining us is swimmer ahmed kelly who's competing in his third paralympics ahmed was born with a double arm and leg deficiency he competes in the 150 metres individual medley [Music] joining us is the veteran australian paralympic coach chris nunn chris is now the project manager for the oceana paralympic committee he's also a mentor for the australian paralympic shooting team but has opted not to go to the tokyo paralympics and chris you have a variety of roles in the lead up to the paralympics i guess um is it hard to be doing it though away from japan because you're not going across to tokyo for the paralympics yeah look tim this is uh the first uh sorry the second time i haven't been involved in a paralympic game since 1988 the only other time i didn't go was when i opened my business at mcgregor around the swim school but ethically i couldn't go this time i really struggled with the concept of the games going ahead i really feel desperately sorry for the japanese community with uh currently what's going on with the covet situation but they've invested billions of dollars in running the games but perth you know i've been working with the nippon sports science university in developing countries to attract new uh countries to the paralympic games and i think what these games have highlighted for me is the difference between the high the people who have and the people who have not and you see at the olympics i think the reason my personal observation why australia has done really well is we are a country of haves we have as many resources that we can get and uh i've worked in countries that have nothing you know so there's four countries we've been working with and invested a lot of time and effort that are not going to be at the paralympic games they cannot get there or get back in without a five week quarantine and these people have got minimal amount of work and they just can't afford to do that so there's four countries we've been working with who won't even have the chance to compete so ethically tim it was a matter of do i go don't i go and i just didn't feel right and for me covert has highlighted the place that sport is in society it's a nice thing to do but it's not an absolutely essential thing to do and and for me my whole life in sport um it's really really made me think about what's important and uh so i'm gonna spend this time with my family um who need me here at the moment um with with the times that are going on so it's been a really tough decision tim because boy have we invested some time and effort uh into coaches and athletes preparing for these games so you're a mentor with the australian paralympic shooting team you're also a project coordinator with oceania so yeah you're wearing a couple of hats but are you still going to be involved remotely though yes absolutely so we have got coaches that are going um and my role in the last few years as opposed to working with athletes uh and patria will tell you what's what's involved with coaching elite athletes it's it's a full-time effort to do it at that level but i have loved working with the coaches in the regions and playing a mentoring role with the australian paralympic team is being delightful in fact you know i could have easily said look i should be going but we put in a better place we had a technical person who had more knowledge around shooting so to be able to mentor that um that team and ensure that the athletes that are going in the right headspace the the manager kurt olson from shooting australia is a terrifically well organized person that team will go away well prepared and i'm completely comfortable that my job is done i've always argued there's two roles on a team that your job should be done before you get to the games one is your strength and conditioning coach and the other is the psychologist you know if your psychologist is needed at the games you really got to question what they've done in preparation for the athletes and that's my role as a mentor as well my job is to prepare them to go and do the job they've done it's always been my job as a coach to prepare athletes and now in a mentoring role i just love the fact that you can prepare it and then step right back and watch people perform and do what they've been prepared to do so yes i'll always be there remotely but the intent is that i won't have a lot to do tim because the work should be done by now nani you've obviously been around the paralympic movement for many many years now and and had a number of different roles just how have you noticed the professionalism of paralympic sport improve over the years uh petrie when i first traveled with the team they used to go away as disability groups you know we somebody would select a cerebral palsy team and then somebody else would pick an amputee team and a wheelchair team and a visually impaired team and if we go all the way back to 1992 the intellectually impaired athletes even went to a separate city for their games so now we've got totally integrated sport and i know as myself and a couple of other coaches really advocated if we're going to sporting competition we need to take away sporting teams and australia drove that throughout the 90s we were so fortunate to have the paralympic games here in australia and my background as you may recall you know i my first wife glennis won olympic gold medal so i saw firsthand the dedication and the discipline that it takes to be at that level and no one understands that better than you petria with you know the difficulties and injuries that you overcome to be successful that discipline is something that you have to expect of your athletes if you're going to be a coach and so the professionalism in paralympic sport has moved significantly and i really take a lot of pride in what australia did in taking a really professional team of track and field athletes into sydney and if you look at the stats we won 35 gold medals with that team the next best countries in the world were germany and america and they won 16. we're more than twice as good as the rest of the world so there's an old saying you either do it first or you do better i thought we did it first and we did it better and now the rest of the world's caught up and in many cases gone past the disappointing part about where paralympic sport has gone is the fact that we are now doing everything we can to chase the middle and it's gone away from the initial concept of what the games was all about from returning soldiers there are very very few quadriplegic athletes now on the paralympic team even the sports that have been set up for quadriplegic athletes like wheelchair rugby is now dominated by athletes like riley batt and chris bond who have four limbs that are affected but they have a totally functioning spinal cord and so that changes the nature of the sport and it changes the nature of the way things are done um the introduction of classification for athletes with cerebral palsy you know in all honesty and i've been around as you said paralympic sport for a long time patria i watch your cerebral palsy class 38 in track and field and i cannot tell what the disability is it's you know and that's not what paralympic sport was intended to be but because of the nature of the ease of care if you know we've got two athletes here in canberra that are incredibly successful with um cameron comey and i will never take anything away from the discipline the application their dedication to what they've done they're brilliant athletes with brilliantly coached performance outcomes but if you're looking at this from a perspective of the public you look at those guys and go what's different them you know i represented my country and both of those athletes well and truly out before me and i'm an able-bodied person so that that to me is not quite where the paralympic movement should have gone uh and and the other thing the professionalism you know that the biggest component of integrity for paramedic sport is the classification system without that the games just don't exist and it has also now become the biggest barrier to participation for developing countries uh we had an example last year where we had kiribati come to australia with an athlete two athletes that need to be classified then covert hit it cost us thirty thousand dollars to accommodate them for nine months to get them home so i mean we're talking about extraordinary circumstances but one of these guys was a double leg amputee you didn't need to bring him halfway around the world to sit in front of a panel of three people for five minutes to say oh you're a double leg amputee yes we knew that the other gentleman was totally blind had no vision and he had to come the same distance and then just because of the classification system it took them nine and then covert hit nine months away from their families before they could get home and now they can't get to the games again because of covert because there's no airline that's flying in and out of terabytes and the government said well if you do leave you can't come back so you know it's it's a different landscape we're dealing with but i i am a little disappointed um in terms of what parliament sport was initially intended by those people who set it up initially and it is a landscape now for the the less disability you have the more you are more highly uh the higher the chance of you that excuse me being selected to represent your country um and the identification of these athletes as problematic in developing countries tim chris you mentioned there obviously there is a fair gap between the wealthier countries and some of the countries that you represented oceania just on the reasons for not going you is it because you don't think the paralympics should be going ahead in tokyo because of the pandemic or is there is it because of the gap between the the richer and poorer countries uh it's a bit of both tim i mean from a personal perspective it's personally saying you know in this current environment where the world has got so many issues um i just don't think the game should have gone ahead i look you know having said that the flip side of what i've just said is that it has been such a nice relief to be able to turn on the television and watch athletes rejoice in their sporting performances i know how hard these athletes have trained and they deserve every opportunity to go and showcase their wares so i fully respect that but it was just a personal choice for me to say the environment is not right and i just know how hard the japanese people have worked to get there and to be able to say um that we can't take everybody there is really disappointing i really do think these games have highlighted the difference between the haves and the have-nots i guess the biggest disappointment to tim is the lack of respect that some of the athletes are showing to others by saying oh my sacrifices are worthwhile you know there are no sacrifices in sport i you hear it you know every time an athlete not every time a significant number of athletes get up and say oh my sacrifices were worthwhile there is no sacrifice i mean one of my previous roles has been working with the invictus games team these people are employed to do a job they sacrifice limbs they sacrifice life they sacrifice family time you know the people who represent our country in defense systems that go away and uh don't come back the same people that's the sacrifice nobody for i've always said this to every athlete i've ever coached no one forces you to be here and no one knows that better than petria you know all the shoulder is surgery she made choices to say i can overcome this and come back a better athlete she made those choices but i would i can ask petrie did you feel like it was a choice because to me sacrifice indicates the negativity about what you're doing and that's the one thing you want to eliminate from athletes thinking is anything that's negative you need them to go into competition in a positive framework and i'm sure petrie would agree with me 100 yeah absolutely none of you i'm totally on the same page there and actually i get similarly frustrated when and when athletes talk about sacrifices and it's well and truly your choice um and yeah i totally totally agree there so i think you know no one makes you do sport you do it because you love it and you want to achieve it achieve something but um there's there's no um sacrifice there choices you make to become the best you can be absolutely patriotic and the other thing is a lot of people don't realize tim um and again patria's you know part of the process these athletes get paid tens of thousands of dollars a year to train yeah they're funded to go and do this job so it's their job you know and again the flip side of having covert experience is that people have lost their jobs people have made choices to go into small businesses and those businesses means you know i've met people that have gone into business and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars they now have nothing to their name so you know i think i've just really reflected a lot this year tim and coming back to your question about why i'm not going i'm playing a distant role i'm still supporting those athletes and coaches that i've been working with but it's a very different uh reflective time for me at the moment chris it sounds like you're a little disillusioned about the way sport is going yeah very much so um i'm look i'm just delighted that we've seen some outstanding performances in the pool i just love seeing athletes performed him i think we're gradually getting on top of the drugs situations and that's been a huge amount of work over decades so but i think we are slowly bit by bit winning that space um you know technology well technology is technology people are complaining about the fact that people have got running shoes now that they can perform in well you know have a look at the cyclists and the investment they're putting into bikes i don't have a problem with that as long as everybody's got access to it and again i think that's highlighted the the difference between particularly in the paralympic space between the haves and the have-nots and i'll give you a quick example of where the disillusionment comes tim you know if we just reflect for a moment on next year's commonwealth games you know i'm looking through the selection criteria and it states currently that to make the parliament games next sorry the commonwealth games para events next year the qualification period started on the 31st of december 2020 and concludes on the 31st of december 2021. now this whole year we've had covert issues the developing countries haven't had a chance to a be classified and b to get a performance in the system so after the paralympic games all of those results will be collated and they'll determine which athletes are likely to go to the games if you want to make the english athletics team the qualification period opens on the 1st of january 2022 and concludes on the 12th of june uh and next year so the parity between parasport and able body sport is still a long way from from equal and we're trying to address that now otherwise we're just going to see australia and england and canada and a few of those countries that are well developed they'll turn up and they'll dominate the commonwealth games and with the commonwealth games being such a proactive community group in terms of uh promoting sport for para athletes and the integrated approach they take during those games is fabulous we're just going to you know it's going to we're going to cut off our nose despite our face if we don't open up the opportunities for para athletes to a be classified and be together a chance to compete so yeah there's a lot of i've been very disillusioned tim um you know as i keep reiterating i will never deny an athlete a chance to be um to be the best they can be and then never deny a coach the access to education that will help them produce a better athlete but boy have we got we've still got a lot of hurdles to overcome in paris sport in terms of you know getting the right group of athletes here to showcase powersport nanny i'm glad you um brought up the commonwealth games and and just how special it is that the the para events are incorporated into the the program and um as you may be aware i'm chef de mission for the commonwealth games team for birmingham next year and um you know one of the one of the greatest things i love about the games is is that integration of the para athletes and to me they're just part of the team well and and for treyarch you know i remember times when we were both employed here initially you were here as an athlete at the ais and i was employed at the ais and and you know the approach we always took was total integration you know the athletes that walked around they might have been part of our power program but they were ais athletes wearing an ios badge and it was totally integrated and as an athlete you accepted them fully as athletes and we are still not getting that from a governor's perspective in sport across the country uh some of the countries and some of the world world seasons you know promoting parasport engagement but they haven't quite grasped the concept of doing it properly so look from a personal perspective i couldn't be more delighted that someone like yourself who has been part of that integrated system here in australia is going to showcase um and head up the team because i have full confidence that not only will you embrace the power athletes from australia but you will embrace parasport from across the commonwealth and that's such a big step for us is to to make sure that we promote that in the right way um i only had a link up last night with the birmingham university to to say how can we do this better from a birmingham university perspective in terms of promoting this throughout the community in england of the opportunity that they will have by bringing the power athletes into the games chris just before we let you go are you looking forward to to watching the paralympics and and seeing how they turn out i guess there was a similar amount of nervousness heading into the olympic games and they obviously turned out to be pretty good i just wonder have you got the same optimism as you prepare for the paralympics i'm going to be really honest guys i didn't expect the olympics to go as well as they have i think there's been a nice focus on performance and athlete athlete feel and athletic culture i i've loved hearing you know peter bolt talk about you know the gratitude that he has for australia and you know he finished fourth at the games but you it was a joyful moment for him to show his appreciation for his country and and i think what people will realize is the athletes have talked about sacrifice they're not the moments that they'll remember the most it's the gratitude and the team camaraderie and you know what um what the decathlete boys did last night in terms of togetherness and working towards a common goal those sorts of things are the things that i've loved um so they're games i mean i'm a sports nut we we know that and you can't help get caught up in it all which is great i honestly thought there was a chance that they the commercial expectations of the olympics and um the the agreement they had with the organizing committee in tokyo and the ipc all of those commitments really have closed off by the end of these games and i thought if things didn't go well and there was a covert outbreak amongst the community they could have easily canceled the paralympic games i'm 100 confident that won't happen now so i'm delighted that in the same way that australian coaches and athletes have had the chance to go and do what they've been training for so will our para athletes um and and the australian parliament well sorry paralympics australia now they're called have done an outstanding job in ensuring safety and preparing our athletes um to be able to go over there and focus on performance in a safe environment they've done an incredible work behind the scenes so i'm just hoping that channel 7 pick up this and showcase it the way they have the olympic games because uh you know tim i've never people have often said wouldn't you rather go to the olympics and i can honestly say not one of those paralympic experiences i've had and i've been to eight games would i swap for an olympic experience there is a gratitude that the paralympic athletes have that is different um i don't hear them talk about sacrifices as much as i do about olympic athletes they understand you know they've had significant issues in their lives to overcome and they've chosen to get on with life um a lot of our power athletes you know bmx riders or quad bike riders or whatever and they've had accidents but they've chosen to get on and play sport because that's the nature of their their uh personality so yeah look i am really looking forward to the paralympic games now tim for the australian athletes together they'll do well i think they'll do like the australian olympic team as you know they've outperformed their performances in the last well and they're heading towards the best games ever i think our paralympic space is going to be a good space but again i want to reinforce it's because we live in a very very privileged country where we provide and support our athletes way above what any many other countries in the world have the opportunity to do and we have been relatively covet-free so athletes have been able to train in safe environments whereas other countries have been closed down and i think if we look at some of the countries their athletes haven't performed at the olympics because of the nature of where they've been in the lock-ups they've had so we are a very fortunate country and i just look forward to seeing what our athletes can do at the paralympic games good on you mate thanks very much for joining us chris uh great insight into tim and patricia good luck for treyarch so she has a mission for the commonwealth games next year for the australian team so she's got a huge responsibility but once again thanks very much for joining us always a pleasure tim take care thanks donnie fate you're listening to onside the official podcast of sport integrity australia well joining us now is paralympic swimmer ahmed kelly who's been selected for his third paralympics in tokyo ahmed competed in four events in both london and rio and he has an incredible backstory born in baghdad raised in australia and that's just the start with a double arm and leg deficiency ahmed your story has been well documented do you draw inspiration from your own story or do you draw inspiration from others around you uh yeah absolutely uh others around me but also the the goals that i set for uh for myself to try and achieve um yeah and that's what really gets me motivated i always try and um yeah set goals and be able to try and um achieve them as as best as i can and what are your goals in the lead up to the paralympics well it's that elusive gold medal at the uh paralympic games i haven't been able to do it um so yeah just keeping uh trying to work hard at it this is my third go so hopefully i'm in for a chance what is the the biggest obstacle to you sense of the unknown the competitors what is it for you that that daunts you most i i guess it's uh yeah the maybe the the sense of the unknown but at this stage like you prepare so hard to try and cover all bases but we all know paralympic games is uh you should be able to expect the unexpected but uh at the end of days i know what i need to do i know the the training that we have been putting on will give us a great chance to be on that podium uh but yeah that's all the things that i can control everything else is out of my control but as long as i can do the things that i can control i'll be pretty uh soaked with it um you have a great um i suppose camaraderie in the paralympic swimming team and i've watched you duel against the grand scooter patterson over the years um and see that and see the joy you two have um being in the pool together can you just i suppose explain a bit about that camaraderie and how it helps you perform at your best yeah so um scoot or grant grant as most people would know him as but uh as as you get to know him more often you call him uh you suckling skirt or carl uh but we've known each other for a while and truly over 10 years now and i know i'm very focused and quite serious about my own business but he's very laid back and chilled and uh he still does an incredible job considering the approach is quite laid back so i guess we really bounce off each other and uh i just love his attitude towards life and also the pool and uh and yeah if i can kind of have a great time with him it kind of shines in the pool for me as well which is pretty cool one of the quotes that i like you know it's important that kids know there are people out there like me how important is it for you to be that representative model that people can see and and witness doing something incredible like you're doing yeah and that's the thing it seems like we live in a world that's not 100 perfect and the more people that realize it the more that they can accept it and i want people who who have a disability or who look just like me to know they have just as uh just just the amount of opportunity to be able to be successful whether it is in life or in the pool i want them to give it a crack because if you don't give it a crack you'll never know and i just want them to see what i've been able to do and say hang on if arma can do it i should be able to do it um and uh and there are people there to able to support them that's the thing there's there there's support around this network to be able to achieve uh success or paralympic games if that's what you really want to do i mean you talk about the network there just how has paralympic sport changed your life ah apparently i mean like if i wasn't even part of powerful i've got no idea what i'd be doing right now to be honest with you but it's just been great from the moment i think uh i decided i wanted to do swimming uh paralympics australia organized the fact that i could go to richmond in melbourne to be able to do my first few sessions to then be in a position do we get classifications done uh then uh put me in the right direction of like people like um ian pope who is part of the melbourne vic center and um yeah that's where it all really started at melbourne vic center swim club my high performance training started because originally i was in the in the country uh just doing a few sessions but we just started our i really want to be focused for london and yeah got into a team like melbourne vixen and really really worked hard and uh if i needed physio if i needed massage all those sort of things were accessible all i had to do was really ask and embrace this opportunity have you been exposed to many people who worse off than you because you know you look at you and you think gee what you're doing is quite incredible i'm not sure that i could do it have you come across people where you think gee that's incredible oh absolutely team um i mean they you just don't need to look any further than the paralympic games when you look at the lower class athletes and how they do what they do is incredible but even like the higher classes there there are people who also do lots of different talent have lots of sorry have lots of different challenges and they're able to compete really well and i'm sure they do pretty well outside of the pool as well um yeah and then also i looked at the guys who have vision impairment and how they go about their business is quite incredible too so i mean for me i've been surrounded in paralympic sports and being able to see how people with a disability get around and do their own business and that also inspires me to do better i mean you've overcome and live with challenges every day that would defeat a lot of people so what motivates you to i suppose get in the pool every day train up and down um and get out on the world stage and do your thing yeah i mean that's true like everybody has their challenge and then it's quite tough for me i do have those challenging days but again going back to my goal setting i'm very determined to try and get on that podium but luckily enough for me i mean i went through in the last eight months outside of the covet situation i went through a very difficult uh scenario here um and basically i had amazing family friends family and friends who are able to support me and sometimes you just need people who really believe in you and to get you back on track to focus on your goals one of the things you've been doing outside the pool of course you've been doing a degree and you want to be a journalist a sports commentator and you've done a little bit of work experience at the abc so is that something you'd like to do in the future i've always enjoyed sport team and i've been very lucky to have the opportunity to work at abc here in canberra and uh yeah watching how the professionals go about their business was fantastic and i remember the first few days i was totally out of my league uh even though i did study journalism but it was great great to see them uh give me the time and show me that the skills that they've been able to do so well so i've really enjoyed it it's a different side uh to uh swimming up and down the pool but it's probably something that i want to pursue at the end of uh tokyo for sure when you when you're swimming do you sometimes commentate to yourself or racist like you're watching that right now wouldn't you have that time in the pool to be commentating myself when you're training when you're training i remember uh when i when i do watch like let's say the footy or the swimming uh i really listen on what the commentators focus on and try and see myself saying similar things to what they are saying um but yeah just really focus on what they've been able to focus on in a specific book because as a as an athlete you have lots of different focuses to be able to perform but as a broadcast journal you focus on totally different things as well so yeah it's pretty cool gotta talk for a long time non-stop exactly you and you got to know you got to know what you're talking about as well in that sport or uh whatever you are broadcasting you have to have a really good knowledge and that's what i've learned working at abc is that yeah you can never uh read enough or learn enough that's for sure or ask too many uh too many questions really um it's been a pretty challenging last 18 months for everyone all around the world um obviously everyone's happy that tokyo is going ahead and that you guys will be able to get out there and do your thing what are you expecting when you get over there uh patricia is going to be one of the strangest games that i'm i'm going to be part of but as long as i get to wear the green and gold and the gold cap i'm pretty happy there's going to be a lot of restrictions no doubt about that but if you focus too much on those sort of things it's going to be quite a tough games but i'm truly trying to focus on performance uh the fact that i have the opportunity to we wear the green gold again and swim for australia is such a great honor so i'm more focused on those sort of things rather than so much the restrictions how many events will you eventually compete in because once you qualify for one sometimes you you can be slotted into another event you competed at four in london four in rio how many have you got in tokyo yeah so at this stage given the whole covert restrictions in place at the moment um we want to attack the best events and for me will probably be two events only at these games at this stage it's the 50 meter breaststroke on day one and the 150 meter individual medley for the sm3 category on day four day four yeah so when you say 150 meters for an individual medley how does that work so with the lower class they're doing butterfly to be a really tough stroke for us to uh complete because majority of more because of the butterfly kick action it's very difficult for us to to do that so they get rid of the butterfly leg and we all start on the backstroke leg breaststroke and finish off with freestyle so my my freestyle is a little bit different to everybody else so it's more that butterfly action with the arms but a double breaststroke kick uh hence why it was a free solvent not a butterfly event because yeah of that double breaststroke kick having watched you swim a lot you use a lot of energy when you when you're swimming unfortunately all my strokes use a lot of energy and i've got to work really really hard in training to make sure i'm fit enough to get through those three grueling uh strokes because they're not very fluent strokes neither of them are fluent strokes it's almost like a stop start action but uh it's one of those challenges and i'm prepared to work really hard to to make sure i can get over the line as fast as i can what are your plans post tokyo ahmed are you going to keep going for for another go around well i haven't really thought that far um at this stage i will be but depending on the results in tokyo then i'll make a final decision so if you go really well why stop do i stop if you're on a roll you keep going until your your body tells you okay it's enough good on you thanks very much for joining uh both patreon resolve it's been great having a chat to you ahmed and and all the best in tokyo thank you so much simon thank you so much for it's great to uh to be on board all the best salmon [Music] hello my name is katrina chikini previously known as katrina lewis i am a two-time medalist at the 2004 and 2008 paralympic games for swimming i am classed as an s10 i have cerebral palsy over my right side i started my career at the age of 14 with the commonwealth games being my first international games followed by world championships in argentina in 2002 i then continued to represent australia consistently until 2010 i currently work in the assessment and review team at sport integrity australia and i passionately strive to make athletes safer and protected within sport my top tips to staging a clean and gold are there is no wrong in always checking what you consume be firm set limits and stick to them have a strong sense of self-worth and self-respect increasing control over one's life makes the path for success and only you are responsible for you thanks for listening to sport integrity australia's clean and gold podcast series i'm tim gable alongside the triple olympic gold medalist patrice thomas and we'll be back in the next couple of weeks to have a look at the paralympics and i'm sure they're going to be successful see you soon you've been listening to on-site the official podcast of sport integrity australia send in your podcast questions or suggestions to media sport integrity.gov dot a u for more information on sport integrity australia please visit our website www.sportintegrity.gov.eu or check out our clean sport app [Music] you