Series 2 - Ep3 - Ben Ainslie Part 1

this is Castle One race officer speaking pressor coming here pressure coming we're 1.5 below two D here boys we looking at 10 at 42 42 hi everyone it's great to have you along for another edition of the podcast I hope wherever you may be around the world you're managing to stay in good spirits with things changing on a weekly basis and at different rates around the world it's really great to see people getting back on the water enjoying time with family out getting wet enjoying the wind and for those quieter moments well that's what we're here for and this month we've got an absolute treat in store we'll come to that in a moment but before we do as always thank you so much for all your feedback for your support and your comments on the Pod if you do like what you're hearing do please give us a like leave a comment and let all your friends know you've been enjoying the podcast it all helps so much here in podcast land I've been busy over here in cows taking the time to recharge a little but also to try and set a few things in motion as we all move forward and just like my two teenage kids I've been online schooling it's been great and I'm not going to lie it's been a challenge at times but I've been brushing up on my navigation and chart reading with the ever so patient teacher at uksa I'm hoping I've picked up a few more podcast listeners from my online classmates guys if you're listening welcome to the Pod but I strongly recommend it if you're messing about in boats and want to deepen your knowledge maybe even just get a little refresher then there's some great online resources available it's been fun trust me so who have we got lined up this week well if you're listening to this you're already going to know that joining me for this week's podcast is one of the most talented and most decorated most successful Sailors of not just his own generation but of all time in 2012 he became the most successful Olympic sailor ever claiming a fourth Olympic gold medal at the London game and just one year later was standing on the podium holding the Americas cup having played a key role in that much disussed comeback win by Oracle Team USA out on the windy Waters of San Francisco Bay I am of course talking about British sailor sir Ben angsley who you may have most recently seen out on Sydney Harbor where in his first ever sale GP event he took out four from five fleet races and The Winner Takes all match race putting on a dominant display in the super fast F50 [Music] catamaran it was really great to see Ben back racing in Sydney it was the venue that saw him win his first Olympic gold medal back in 2000 and we were team GB teammates back then and racing out on the same courses ultimately we both ended up on the top step of the podium but Ben's medal win his approach to the final race face was a real Mark of his dogged no compromise attacking character we talk through all of that and reflect on a whole lot more of Ben's Olympic sailing career in the first part before in part two of the Pod looking more at Ben's relationship with the Americas cup and how well placed he sees himself and his team in es team UK as the 36th America's Cup draws ever closer we talked to Ben at the team base in p Smith social distancing of course but it was an exciting day as we arrived the cran was out and the stealthy imposing Matt Black ac75 was out front and there was much activity the team were preparing for their first day back out on the water after months of lockdown he's a busy man Ben so before we get underway I have to send him a massive thanks for being so generous with his time trying to win back the America's Cup brings with it a massive amount of pressure so sitting down to chat for a couple of hours well it's really appreciated I hope you enjoy the time I spent with sir Ben anley remember this moment because it's probably the best sailing moment you will ever get in your life I remember the first time I went sailing in Optimist I just had a duffel coat and Wellington Boots on sounds crazy now but I wasn't sure I'd ever get the chance again to go to them boots well thanks for joining us on the podcast Ben we're here at your team base obviously still social distancing our way through life but it's great you can join us Ben it's no exaggeration to say that every week we get messages from listeners asking when you'll be on the podcast so it really massive thanks for making it happen no it's a it's a pleasure and now it's been fun listening to the podcast you've you've been doing and uh different stories and yeah really fascinating so pleasure to be on on the podcast I was going to ask you if you'd listen to any if you actually sort of knew what you were in for I listened to a few and had some great people uh obviously Pur is is a great M of mine so I really enjoyed listening to to his thoughts and guys like Russell and Paul and and and Jimmy and and so so many so many people that so many different experiences across the sport really so it's been great we've enjoyed it too actually getting to to listen to people for a length of time and then we're here at the at the team base it's a great spot the cut boo is back from Sardinia actually just going in the water as we arrived today um boat two is still being built schedules a bit up in the air I mean not ideal in a cup campaign of course we don't want to dwell on the virus scenario but you know how has progress here been affected by the whole thing well obviously it's been difficult getting on the water we haven't done that now for 3 months today is the first day back out which is a you know big day for the team and that's been frustrating but in pretty much every other area we've been able to continue and progress has been really good and as you know we we're very reliant on simulation now and development through the through the cup and our our team had done a great job on that front so that hasn't slowed down in fact actually it's probably intensified because we haven't had the distraction of being out on the water and Jason Carrington and his team over at Carrington boats in Hive have done an amazing job to keep our second boat our race boat on track through this and you know working through covid practices and so on so yeah it's been hard but I think that I'm really pleased with how the teams reacted to it and done the done the best we possibly can through that and it's you know it's affected you know it's affecting everybody but in our own America's Cup world it's affected the teams in different ways you can't really obviously can't control that you just got to do the best that you can in your own environment and try and make the right decisions and and react to that and thankfully we got a strong team here that that are able to do that well that's good news let's touch on your last outing uh racing a Bo it was a bit of a statement wasn't it a new team straight into the spotlight in Sydney Harbor the round of the new s GP season and you absolutely bossed the fleet I mean how much fun was s GP down in Sydney I mean you definitely looked Ben like you were in your happy place yeah well it obviously helps when you get in the results but I do have to say it's one of the best events sailing experience I've ever had it was just brilliant you know I went down there with the team and I wasn't quite sure because everything's so tightly regulated I wasn't quite sure how frustrating it would be in terms of getting out in the water the training time but you know I was amazed you know firstly how well run the whole thing was you know from the shared boat um resource you know getting all the boats out in the water and so on really smooth operation and then uh we we actually had you know tons of time out on the water I think we were getting sort of four or five hours a day for a week building up to the event which is way more than I expected we would and you know you we both sailed in in Sydney loads and it's just such a magical place to sail and I think it was the second or third day out and we actually had a good mate M Chris C Wright was on on the boat on the back of the boat as we're going back towards the uh cocka 2 island where the boats were being kept and we so we were going down wind towards the opera house and the bridge you know 4 5:00 in the evening and just magical 40 40 45 knots of boat speed and I turn around to Chris I said remember this moment because it's probably the best sailing moment you will ever get in your life because it was just perfect and you sort of had to pinch yourself a little bit that uh you were there doing that and uh so yeah I I loved it it was I just thought it was brilliant that it's a special place I mean even watching you on the television you could just tell that in many ways I guess you know a relief just to be just to be racing and not have to deal with with everything else yeah it was it was great to be out there on the water and and the team were just just amazing you know all of the guys had sailed last season in different with it with different teams but you know to jump on a boat like that and every guy in his position was you know almost faultless really and we just jailed really well as a team you know the first day we went out training uh it was pretty Breezy actually Sly Shifty Breezy similar to actually the first day of racing and we were quite sort of understand ly cautious you know let's talk our our way for a bear away and attack and a jive and all the sort of Basics and we've in about 10 minutes we were just throwing throwing the thing around and then Tom Tom Tom slingsby and his and the Aussie guys came out and we started racing against them and we were neck and neck and just having amaz and Tom actually sent a message the that evening say a thank that was that was that was awesome training you know and I said yeah I totally Away by the performance of the boats and that we were out there throwing it around and and and racing toe-to-toe with those guys who obviously you know dominated the first season really along with the Japanese team so yeah we were straight into it and uh you know had had a fantastic team and obviously things went went really well oh it was good to see Ben we're going to go way back um I can remember the very first time I met you um you were standing in the queue for dinner at the youth in Lars Scotland so up in my neck of the woods there was this young shy gangly boy I mean 14 maximum um and you were already by then the talk of British sailing that's Ben anley everyone was whispering and then the next day I was out watching the racing and you smashed your tiller extension to bits I'm not sure why that sounds a bit more like it yeah not sure why B but you were fired up to win even back then what was the young Ben Angy the boy what was he like yeah well you're right I was incredibly shy as a youngster not really sure why um but yeah that was something that I uh was very very shy took an age to go up and talk to anybody really and um but I had this somewhere from somewhere this sort of burning desire to be good at sailing basically it's something I what I always loveed doing my dad was a really Keen sailor but an ocean sailor wasn't a dingy sailor didn't really know anything about that but I was really fortunate when I was about 8 years old we moved to my family moved to Cornwall we lived in in chesher which those not from the UK in the middle of the country near Manchester and we did a bit of sailing at the weekends in North Wales and so on but we didn't get on the water that much and then as I say we moved to Cornwall and that's where sailing really took off for me because we lived in a small Fisherman's cost AG on one of the Creeks or strong at Creek so I was able to just um wheel my Optimus down to the beach and just go out out sailing on my own and it's sort of different different times then you could sort of do that without any coach boats or what have you and I remember the first time I went sailing in an Optimus and I I just had a duffel coat and Wellington Boots on then have a life jacket which is nuts I mean there's no way I'd let my my daughter go out uh without any life jacket or anything like that but that's just what you did those days and um so I spent loads of time in the wed just really loved it and um and then started racing and just loved the competition and so yeah as I grew up I was really really determined to try and be good at sailing very shy and so I was a bit of a Jackel and Hyde character really on and off the water and as I've grown up those two characters have sort of slowly merged um I think uh so yeah that that's sort of how it started did you have awareness at all that that you were good at this uh yes and no I mean I I was good I was really fortunate the local club or strong at Sailing Club one of the parents was a really successful Firefly sailor called Phil Slater and he had two kids similar age to me and he really started the the training at the club and just in his spare time he and his wife J and then they drew in some of the other parents who would help out and and so we had the bar uh the parrots which were the beginners we had the barricudas which were the sort of intermediates and then the aces which were the top so I started off as a parrot and um worked my way through like everybody else and and then started doing well there were quite quite a few other really good Sailors that came out of that that club um guy called David lens who's who races a lot one of the top Sailors here in the UK and and top sale designer with North sales now so he and I had some amazing races I mean actually probably some of the toughest racing that I've had in my career you know going up against people like Robert shy actually going up against David lens was probably probably tougher and I think that was great that competition at that age as youngsters coming through in our Optimus um so we went from you know having a few people who were top 10 in the country maybe to to being the top club in the country and um so fantastic training ground and I Le learn a lot through those years as a teenager I mean you weren't the only talent in the British Camp back then of course we recently spoke to Ian pery on the podcast and he talked about that that golden era in the UK so many youngsters went on to become big names in sailing all from that generation what do you remember about that time and with a bit of hindsight you know why did that happen how much do you think did you all push each other to get better and better yeah you're absolutely right been there was an amazing generation there and I think mostly it stemed you know probably from from Jim store I think because he uh you know when I look back and think about the youth training camps and sort of laugh about some of the things we were getting up to and and all the rest of it and some of the coaching sessions but Jim St of course he masterminded you know the youth training scheme UK that's right but I think I think what Jim sort of instilled in us more than anything was this belief that we could be successful because up until then we'd had people like Rodney Patterson who was a long time before and Mike McIntyre bin Vil won the won the gold in Soul in the star Lorie Smith who was who was um you know done amazing things professional in professional sailing and in America's Cup and I think won the Bron bronze medal in '92 and and then there was this sort of Next Generation and we hadn't really been that successful in in anything really for a while I don't think and and instilled in US instilled in us this belief that we could be you know we could go out and win World Championships or go to the Olympic Games and um and made us believe that that was a possibility and so I think that group you then saw there was obviously some Talent there but that was nurtured by Jim and and a lot of the other people you know clubs around the country you know I mentioned Phil Slater but many many um volunteers that really help support and um and develop clubs around the country um so if you put that Talent and and gave it the right support um then we were able to uh well you you and I were involved in the that you know you were slightly before me with the Olympics but coming into that guys like Rod Carr John darbishire trying to set up the right foundations and support network and then funding um so that as that came together and we had the talent it was just a magical recipe by 1995 you're only 18 years old and you're youth world champion but also on a real trajectory destination Atlanta for the Olympic Games of 96 back then I was also trying to qualify for the games and I set up camp that year in wouth it was the venue for selection um do you remember I mean as as my memory is that and it's not much of an exaggeration to say this you were out sailing nearly every single day I mean the natural Talent Ben was there of course and the determination but that early success it didn't just come from nowhere did it there was a lot of hard work went into that yeah yeah was and I I think that's right in any sport any Walk of Life there are so many talented people I do genuinely believe that the difference comes from hard work but I remember you actually sort of slightly embarrassing but for me you know watching you and how you operated um particularly the 96 Olympics the professionalism that you put in into your campaign that was a that was a great example for me and I think for a lot of others of just that single-minded Focus that you need to have um and uh and so and John John Merck and Ian Walker as well they they were real high performers great role models and and they helped me a lot as well um guys I could look up to great advice and um yeah but it doesn't you're right it doesn't come for nothing you got to get out there you got to put the hours in and um it's the same in any any Walk of Life really I used to you know open my curtains and if it was raining I'd think oh God maybe just the gym today then I see benley was well and and I trained with a great guy called Mark little John who went on to be a fantastic coach and he and I yeah we'd go out and we'd s go out at hammer and tongs for hours and hours and those were great days I looked back them you know training through the middle of winter down in wouth staying in you know some dodgy B&B where you had to put your 50p in the slot to get the heater to work and running out of money and all those sorts of things that we we did back then uh it was great by the Olympic year you'd made massive strides you medled at the laser world and were already seen as a real Contender I mean still so young so much expectation what's your memory of how you approach the games in Atlanta did you think you could win Ben well I was yeah as he says on this massive trajectory of uh of learning and and the results were getting better and better I won the Europeans just before the games and was third at the World Championships but there was this guy called Robert shy who was annoyingly good um that won pretty much everything and uh I think all of us sort of had the expectation that Robert was the firm favorite going in into those games and for me it was just a matter of how quickly could I keep improving and um the one thing that I did have and I was fortunate and I know that you did as well I was really quick downwind and and uh in any form of of sailing that's that's a massive tool to have in your uh Weaponry because if you mess up a start or you go the wrong way on the the first beat you've you've got some kind of an out you can get yourself back to a respectable result and then the races that you obviously get it right you're you're you're up there in a in a strong position so those games I remember I started terribly the first race I think it was 20 in the 20s or something and I was overheating it was very hot and humid in Savannah I was overheating sort of bits were probably Blown Away by the occasion and I had to sort of settle my nerves a little bit between the races I had a much better second race although I got tangled up but the one with Mark was a big pile up of boats and a guy a french guy called gu floron who actually would go on to become somewhat of a nemesis I would say through my Olympic sailing career um put in a protest well I didn't actually know at the time but afterwards I saw on the notice board I was being protested I couldn't really work out for what cuz I really sort of managed to avoid everyone and stayed out of trouble and anyway I went to see him he said oh well you made me tack onto onto Port and then I got hit by someone else and that was all your fault cuz you didn't keep clear of me what are you talking about anyway so he put this protest in and told this story which was an outright lie and I was sitting there you know and as we all know in protest rooms it's your your you there weren't really any Witnesses I don't think at that time and it all happened quite late I think yeah how am I going to how am I going to deal with this because it's you know his word against mine and he's protested so I've kind of got to prove somehow that this didn't happen anyway and you remember that Marriott hotel which was the Olympic Village they had at the end of each day's racing they put the big screen up and they showed the racing and we were waiting as the jury was sort of deliberating and thankfully the race came up and the first room REM Mark and this this incident and exactly as how I had said had happened you know i' come in on uh on uh we were both on Port Tac Guam got taken out by I think it was the American American um guy and uh they got tangled up and I'd sort of Ted around and gone off and so I said to the the chairman of jorus I don't really know and I was I only 19 I was a bit um uh you know inexperienced in terms of protests and how they they were I said I don't know if this is right you know to proced it but I've just seen the incident on the TV it'd be really helpful if you had a look at it and he was a really nice guy the chairman of the dra I remember elderly guy and really um one of those sort of guys that trying to do the right thing and supportive and so he said like okay leave it with me we'll go and have a look and then they came back and of course said yeah it's uh it's as you said it was and um we're just going to throw out the protest but um that that unfortunately wasn't the end of my um my run ends with g and floron has sort of experience again I think in Athens a few years later I love that you remember all the detail of that yeah 24 years yeah I know it's a bit scary so after those initial moments you did actually put together a strong series and for our listeners that won't maybe remember this it went down to a final battle for gold between you and Brazil's Robert shy it was a rivalry that the sailing world would of course get used to seeing a lot what happened in that last race a fleet race of course before we went to medal races and all of that tell us what went on B yeah so the deal was Robert had quite a good lead um you know about three or four races to go we pretty much neck and neck and then I remember the the penultimate race Robert had a really good one I was maybe eth or something like that so he ended up with a with a about an eight-point Gap and um so I mean it was you know I had a chance um you know of of of the goal but an outside chance and then per mberg from Norway was was in third and little about similar distance behind me and uh so going into the final race I I was just going for it to try and win the race and and and see if maybe Robert had a problem and maybe it it would go my way and we had quite a few false starts I think the tide was pushing us over the line and then it ended up with Black Flag start and I remember I was about 10 boats down from the from the committee Boat Robert was at the committee boat and he he went over the line quite clearly probably about 20 seconds to go and I think he just took the decision I'm I'm done you know it's obviously over the line I'll just sheet in and go and see if I can convince as many boates to go with me which is quite a smart move really and uh unfortunately I was in that pack that you know I KN I knew I needed a good start I needed a good race if I was going to win it so I sort of got uh got sucking into going with the group and and unfortunately was over the line so it's a bit of a antic clim Matic way to end it all really and then uh and then to you know I remember PE came up to me after I'd been disqualified and said oh thanks thanks very much now I can win the silver medal that's that's a that's a pretty sporting way to to to deal with it anyway thankfully he didn't he didn't have such a good race so uh he he ended up with a bronze medalin and Robert Robert obviously took the goal which um I remember at a time I was kind of devastated CU as we all know in sailing you know you don't necessarily to get that many shots to go especially here in in the UK we've got so many talented Sailors um and just qualifying itself had been hard enough in 96 I wasn't sure if I would ever necessar no you know sounds crazy now but I wasn't sure I'd ever get the chance again to go to the Olympics and I it's a really good chance of winning a goal and then sort of blown it um but I got you know got back to the dock and you know all the teammates were there and uh and then I got to see my parents later on and S of realized actually it's wasn't a bad bad shot it wasn't a bad go at it and um you know hopefully I get another chance someday I always thought that Robert took you out in that final no he no he didn't I mean there's been been a lot of talked about it um but no he he um you know he he was clearly over the line and decided to try and take as many people with him which um you know I think was perfectly entitled to do and and uh probably pretty good move so you're 19 years old you're standing on the podium for a nation that back then I mean hard to believe but team GB didn't win many medals what were you thinking what was I thinking ah good question I think I was I think I was trying to work out how I was going to get myself to the top of the podium rather than halfway halfway up it and uh you know the great thing although Robert and I had many many really tough tough races then and then in the four years building up to Sydney and including Sydney I mean those were amazing experiences and from a you know sporting perspective putting yourself up against the very best um and actually my development as a sailor and as an athlete was so much more advanced because of that that competition with with Robert so Wasa probably would have won a hell of a lot more if he hadn't been around I think certainly made me a much much better sailor uh so um no they were very memorable times how did that silver medal Chang your life Ian there weren't many medalists from the British team we finished a lowly 36th in the medal table when you got home were things different um yes and no uh I mean I think as anyone who's done Olympic campaign will tell you there this sort of moment of anticlimax when you finish in Olympics and you get whether you've been successful or not I think you get home and suddenly it's realization that there's not really anything there in terms of don't have to get up to go training that's that not intense Focus has gone and that was quite a weird experience the first time I went through it and actually I learned quite a lot from that to help me in in my future Olympic experiences or campaigns but coming home no I mean I I remember Steve Redgrave uh they put him on this is your life and I didn't even met Steve Redgrave because I'd been one of the few Med list I got invited along to go on the show and I remember this hilarious moment where for those that don't know the show they have obviously Steve Redgrave they go back through his life and bring on through the show people that that you know family members or teammates or whatever and so he came around to these sort of Olympic teammates and I said and you know you're great mate from from sailing you know Ben Angley and and so off I on I came to the stage and you see Steve hadn't got a clue who I was hand got the foggiest and and sort of hilarious moment where I shook his hand and off I went and I was um you know as we' talked about I was really rather shy so I was in a terrible sort of state of oh my God he doesn't even know I am and I'm on this show and it's just terrible and then thankfully because a lot of people don't know Steve regra actually sailed for America's Cup team back in um ' 87 in freem mantle as a grinder and one of his great mates was also a grinder who was on the on the on the show and he was very nice and obviously realized I was a bit uncomfortable about the whole thing so he came over and we having this great chat about the cup in 87 and so on and uh so I got got through the evening that way so that was one of the few sort of TV appearances I I did um and then the other thing actually I remember there a a guy guy called Tim hanock who people know is one of the top race officers around who was also a very very good sailor and um I remember catching up with him and he said to me something it was really interesting he said I think not winning the gold medal is probably the best thing you won't think this but I think it's probably the best thing that could have happened to you because if you had okay you'd be getting all this you know you'd be the only other gold medalist along with Steve redraven Matt pinsent all this attention but actually you're so determined now to try and go out and win the gold medal next time that you're going to you know Focus that much harder train that much harder rather than S if you win a gold medal at 19 and suddenly The Whole World's at your feet and it's quite easy to probably get lost and distracted and and not focus on the sport you should be doing which is quite interesting comment I mean I didn't quite agree with him at the time but may maybe he was right was that true I mean how how determined were you to stand on the top step and Sydney yeah I mean that was everything uh just the the next four years you know put every waking moment into um trying to trying to make that happen which as we talked about was hard because uh Robert was such an amazing sailor and athlete and so we had oh incredibly intense rivalry incredibly intense and uh we I think we we actually liked certainly from my side it was a lot of huge amount of respect but when we were out on the racetrack it was uh no B it was full on and um yeah we had our we had our moments but uh yeah like I said we look back to some of the races that we had I remember one raceing the world championships in in Chile and uh it was a windy venue and Robert was very very good in the stronger winds and I got in front in this right I didn't have the best of series but i' managed to get in front in this race and he was had a slight Edge over me up wind he's quite a tall guy so he had more leverage incredibly fit great technique it's just ever a slightly quicker upwind and remember we got out managed to get him out all the way out to the PO poan lay line and Tack and cover and those days were on much longer courses so we probably spent about 20 minutes on Port Tac neck and neck back into the Finish i' I've never never hiked so hard my whole life I remember crossing the line absolutely knackered and uh we had that sort of and actually on that race I think it maybe was a penultimate race on that race him finishing second meant he won won the worlds I remember we had that sort of acknowledgement of it was a great race and he he he'd obviously won won the uh I'd won that particular battle but he won the war in in that world championship but yeah just amazing amazing rivalry it's great he was saying something but we whenever we had our little moments we'd always be shouting at me Portuguese the most stupid thing you could have done at that point was wind me up cuz I was just livid that's a b of a rolling dice moments but eventually got to the point where he was [Music] ahead so at the Sydney games at the Millennium games in the wonderful Sydney Harbor the whole British team was fueled with real resources I guess for the first time and there was a a real confidence wasn't there there was you Percy Ian Walker Billy Barker me of course all riding a kind of new wave of confidence there was a huge expectation that we'd all deliver what was it like for you in in team GB at that time yeah you're right it was a brilliant Squad fantastic Squad when you look back at you know you mentioned a lot of the characters there huge amount of Talent great um support from John as the team manager um I think the thing all of us felt with Sydney though was just such a difficult place to sell and we'd all invested so much time being there to try and learn the nuances of the harbor and I think obviously we did a good job of that but still pretty random place to sale and that was quite scary when you've sort of invested that much time and effort into something um and certainly there were moments in that competition where it was a bit of you know roll the dice and really sure how this is going to play out in terms of the strategy of the race course uh so yeah it was um it was just I I remember that was probably the most intense period I've had in my life actually I think because of getting the silver medal in 96 being so focused on getting the gold but not only having to go up against Robert but also the venue of Sydney um there were no nothing was a given there so it was um it was very very intense I remember that it's a pretty stressful time I I didn't actually was probably the one time in my career I haven't actually really enjoyed sailing that much and most most of the time I pretty much all the time I love being on the water but that that period in the buildup and that competition wasn't that much fun because it was just so I remember just being so stressed about about the the the competition and uh and trying to obviously trying to get get the gold medal there's so many variables from w't we we were sailing in September which you know the spring Spring weather yeah I think we had we were on the same course and I think we had we have three or four courses with all the variables of the compass it was just it was so hard to kind of lock down the variables field yeah yeah it really was yeah well by the final race in Sydney Ben it was another battle between you and Robert Shai but this time with some complicated math I had to take a quick look back at this race on the actual day you know I had a bit on myself to actually watch your race so didn't have all the details to memory but it's a real Testament to your approach I think you had a a choice didn't you to try and win the race and hope that shy was ninth or worse and you take gold or you could take it on control him and make sure he was 21st or worse when the discards kicked in you'd take gold that way talk us through the choices you made and your memories of that afternoon yeah I mean I had a bit of a game plan going out with two races on that final day uh was you know obvious I guess pretty obvious see how the first race goes and then you know if got a got a bit of a points lead work out how to defend that but if things didn't go that well then then there was always an option of trying to use the discard and and and try and get those points back that way um and so the first race of the day the penultimate race of the series didn't go that well for me Rob Robert had a great race I think he won it or was first or second and I knew that if he won it I needed to be I think ninth or something like that to still be in the game you know and at one point I wasn't and it wasn't until the final downwind I managed to just scrape in to uh just scraping enough to we're in Portsmith as traffic off go the Navy bless him yeah so uh just scrape in to give myself a chance and then uh after the race you know before that final race spent quite a bit of time with John darish and my coach chatting about the options and John it was funny because John lovely guy great coach um very um sort of placid person I suppose um very calm and and uh I remember him saying to me well look if you're going to do that you're going to have to really do a proper job you know like you know there's no half halfway you know you're going to have to really go for it which is kind of really unlike John and I remember thinking well actually if John's giving me that advice I'm really am going to have to go for it and you're kind of right because you going you know one of the you know most talented guys to have set foot in a boat in my opinion um and you got to try and get them outside the top 20 it's you know massive ask massive ask but the breeze was was blowing out of the uh out of the West on that you know over Point Piper there sorry Bradley's head really really random super random and just to my mind going out trying to win the race that really was rolling the dice whereas actually doing what I did at least had some chance to try and control the situation and so yeah went went into it the first start I don't think Robert was necessarily expecting it or expecting me to sort of come after him so int intensely and I remember I think I got him into outside the lay line for the pin end and actually was locked out from starting but the race was postponed or recall I can't remember which and so I remember being really frustrated because I I maned to get a jump on him but now he knew what my game plan was and so we came into the actual eventual start and I left it until really really late and managed to come in and get a get a hook on him and push him up head to wind and um and then bear away and and sort of as the gun went he was he was sort of you know high and slow and had had a really bad start and actually I think we'd even had a had contact so he went off and did some turns and then uh then I remember thinking oh actually that's not enough I'm GNA have to stop here which seemed crazy it's sort of first time I'd ever really done that in a race so I started doing turns to sort of stay with him and then we we were right at the back of the pack obviously by that point and then we had this amazing first beat we would have done I think 20 30 odd tacks bang bang bang bang bang remember one Tac caught the tow strap with my big na toenail only was so close to throwing myself out the boat oh you know right on the knife edge and then we got to the Top Mark and I managed to i' done a little bit of team racing with with bits and pieces and i' I'd always loved the match racing game and watched the America's cups and so I managed to sort of set up this trap where whereby Robert couldn't attack for the mark and then we did a jive round and then eventually he just got frustrated and jbed into me and and actually ran me out the way and sailed off and and actually to to his credit I mean phenomenal comeback he got himself back to I think 22nd 23rd was given I mean by this you know the leaders already R the lewood mark and we still hav gone around the Winwood Mark so how on Earth he got himself back there God only knows but uh he did but we'd had he didn't make he didn't make enough places back then we'd had this incident um he you know he was really upset about it he felt that it was unfair that I tried to take him out the race so he protested me I protested him for the Collision that we'd had and then we you know we had a quite a long wait with the jurry couple of hours where we went through it all and uh and in the end they decided look you know it's kind of no Ben didn't break any rules here um you might not like it but that's um that's within the rules and actually you know this Collision sorry but you're in the wrong so we're going to disqualify from the race so I mean I I totally understand why why Robert was upset you know cuz he had a gold medal there and and and that got taken away and um you know I think he his view was it wasn't it wasn't a clean race and my view was well yeah but the that's this has happened before and you know you know if you can actually sail some get into someone and we within the rules and that's not that's not an easy thing to do um then uh then that's that's the game in my view um and yeah there was quite a lot of controversy about it at the time um but I think now sick didn't you from um Roger banister banister ons sporting yeah I know and I remember cuz he's a hero in in in in England obviously you know met first guide to break for minut Mile and I remember thinking well yeah but you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to sailing and and uh and the sport and and the rules and all the rest of it um but you know the same I could understand it I could understand it but um you know I think it's interesting how the sports developed now we have the medal Ro and that is trying to actually instigate these battles between the the medalists so um yeah I think it was maybe it was a little bit ahead of it's time but the footage Ben is you should I don't know if you've watched it recently I suspect not but the footage is great I mean in the race before you see shite crossing the line he did a better race than you and he's pumping the air like he's already won his gold medal yeah then in that final race particularly at the top Mark you're totally schooling him I mean listeners if you get on YouTube do take a look honestly it's a great watch what was going on at that time and what was what was Robert saying it must have been so desperately frustrating for him yeah he was saying something but we whenever we had our little moments which we had quite a few in our races where we'd start so shouting at each other he'd always be shouting at me in Portuguese so I'd absolutely no idea what what he was saying um yeah I mean he was obviously frustrated um and he was trying desperately to um to try and get out of the situation and and then like I say it was actually pretty phenomenal that he managed to get back where he did to be honest and I remember him going and then I I just kind of well I just did the course and I was watching him he'd got ahead he got a gust down wind and like and he just got away from me and um I remember just watching his race thinking you know is he going to do it what has he got to now and then some people I remember as a guy Stanley tan from Singapore he a lovely guy and he was the I think the next guy Robert had to get past to get and I remember sort of scream go Stanley go Stanley you know trying make sure make sure he um he could hold off Robert danwin which to his credit he did and that was quite amazing Robert was electric downwind but for some reason he couldn't get past Stanley tan and that was the difference Stanley T save the day but it's amazing isn't it and I'm sure same for you when you look back at your career well other people you sp can do the difference is you you think back a tiny between winning or not and uh it's quite scary at times you think how easily things could have gone turn out differently well there's plenty more to talk about Ben obviously but whilst we're still in Sydney looking back at it firstly that decision to be the aggressor to take it on then of course the execution absolutely bossing a man who at the time was one of the sports real stars still is I mean that gold medal with everything else you've achieved since that must still be a big highlight yeah definitely it's uh I remember at the time it was just Relief really I think you speak to a lot of people that uh you know particularly with the Olympics because this this is intense four years actually just getting the job done I think relief is your initial feeling and then there's sort of the Great Moments of sharing it with family and friends and teammates and we had such a great team there like you said that um we were able to share in that moment um I remember the big difference being we talked about it before the podium and then you get you know this little as you know you get this little extra step um in the Olympics Podium anyway and I remember thinking to myself oh this this is a difference i' I've made made it for the extra step it's kind of bizarre thing to be thinking about as you're going onto the podium but anyway it's uh yeah magical Moment by the Opera House and uh and like I say with your teammates and everything um really really very fun memories well we're going to stick with the Olympics for a while but there's been quite a few so we're going to jump forward a bit and I'm going to highlight them here so you switched to the Finn for Athens and then Beijing two more gold medals just like that and then in 2012 it was the big one my first question I guess I mean many athletes go for a lifetime without competing at a home games can you remember the announcement can you remember how you felt when Britain was given the 2012 games I can imagine Ben it's either it's a massive excitement or a feeling of dread with all that added unwelcome distractions well now I mean I I remember exactly where I was one of those moments you don't forget isn't it I was in trala square I was helping out uh in a small way with the bid and i' been asking go to tfala square for the announcement and at that time I wasn't I Wasing and aring whether to try stay in Olympic sailing because I was working with um been working with Keith Mills and team origin obviously your cup had been a big focus of being with Team New Zealand and really wanted to try and and make my way in in that side of the sport and uh and so yeah I was there in tala square it was a bit of a shock announcement because it was really close at Paris wasn't it as to who was going to get it and uh I remember just the atmosphere was Electric tala Square just took off unbelievable atmosphere and at that moment I just thought to myself I've got to be involved with somehow i' got to be involved with this even even if I'm not racing I've got to try and be involved because it's going to be such an amazing event and so that's when I started trying to work out how I could get back in and get back into the fin and uh start putting a campaign together so yeah it was big big moment we have to ask Ben I mean the buildup didn't quite quite go to plan did it I mean at the time you were under real selection pressure weren't you from your current teammate J Scott J was banging hard on the door of the selectors and there was the incident with the camera boat at the world in Perth I mean how was your buildup to those games uh I would actually they were they were quite good um yeah I mean we had just qualifying was that was a serious challenge because I've been out the fin for a couple of years jles and a few of the other younger guys come through JS in particular going really sailing really well really good technique um really learning to race well so I knew it was going to be a pretty intense battle just to get that that spot and the trials in wouth it was a sale for go Gather in wouth in 2011 so I'd been back in the boat then for about 10 months my first event back in the boat was in Perth and it was just a shambles I remember of was all over the place and it was quite a windy I hadn't put enough weight back on hadn't got my sailing Fitness back I was way off the pace I remember I went around one Lee would mark and um just made a complete hash of it fell over fell over in my boat almost capsized ass over to and remember some little La a radial kid who was watching I guess his race was personed or something just you know pissing himself in laughter and I was just so embarrassed I like there's this kid looking at me and he probably thinks who the hell is that guy is complete numpty you know so I knew I I knew I had a bit on to catch up with Jes and the other boys I mean thankfully Sid David howlet who was my coach for most of my fin career was amazing in terms of helping me get back on the pace with the kit and so on and um so I knew I had good kit and it was a case of sort of getting the sailing Fitness back and so on but that sale for gold together 2011 was a really a big one a big career-wise was a massive event and manag to to win it and then get the nod for the pre-olympics and win that and then that sort of um was the sort of selection done but then unfortunately I started you know we had the worlds in perfect you mentioned I had a slight running with some someone who gotten away um another embarrassing been many embarrassing moments in my career that was one of them and um yeah that was a bit of a distraction because there were some people in the sport who were trying to I think use it as a bit of an opportunity to make life difficult and I had to have a hearing you know with with World sailing or iaf as it was then and um and I lost the world championships as well which is pretty frustrating after saing a pretty good week um so getting through that and then unfortunately through that as well I managed to um I've always sort of suffered with my lower back and through those championships I realized I was starting and get pain down down my left side and getting back was it was getting worse through the competition then getting back home going to see The Specialist and realizing that actually getting trapped ner and I needed to actually go through a procedure to free that up and uh so that was a really worrying time because I knew I was going to have to have surgery I was going to knock my fitness not my sailing time then I had this added pressure of this uh this hearing about my my uh my running in in perf so yeah it was a pretty stressful time actually then and um and the surgery went well and I got back pretty well but I really struggled um to get enough weight back on and and and for whatever reason my body sort of felt like it was breaking down so I went into the games and I was having injection in my ankles because they were crank cramping up U my back Wasing um so I was really sort of patched together and not not in great shape so it was it was it was a really that was that was probably the toughest Olympics I've done I think cuz I didn't feel in great shape it was it was a breezy summer down in wouth and that's never all the boats I've sailed we talked about it earlier I've sort of always set myself up to be quick downwind and that was just a strategy I took because I I felt that gave you the a huge um a huge chance to have that downwind speed gave you gave you um gave you the chance to come back and so I was light for the boat anyway and then if I didn't didn't have the fitness um in in the strong breezes that we saw I was struggling and Jonas Christensen and and PJ posman particular really got their act together um they did some good work I think with their rig and sales through the summer uh they were both big guys and they they definitely had a a lick of pace on me upwind and it was very very difficult it's uh had to sort of muster every ounce of energy and determination and every every trick in the book really to come out on top and that one Tim and I were out in the rib for the for the BBC um so we we lived every one of those races out in the bay in Waymouth I don't think my back had recovered either Ben and there was a real battle wasn't there between um yanis o Christensen and Peter posma I mean in some ways it felt like they decided that beating up on Ben anley needed to be a team of fair you know how tough was that yeah I I know I mean there was that one incident where we were all together and I went around and it was it was to be it was pretty close but you know when you you know we all know when you've hit a mark you know and they said oh you hit it and I like come on it's a bit of a a bit of a soft one you know and um anyway I was I had to do the turn because it was you know I couldn't risk going into a protest with with two you know two against one and Witnesses and so on but I remember it it massively fired me up and it's kind of what I needed and and I remember saying when I came in they made a mistake and they did I mean that was the most stupid thing you could have done at that point was wind me up because I was just livid and um you know I said you know as a set of struggling really struggling for energy and fitness but you know sometimes you need something like that to just make you go that extra mile extra bit of effort to um to try and get back so that was uh that was a big Turning Point actually they they helped me out inadvertently they made you angry that was the quote of the day wasn't it don't make me angry have a great comment and then Ben the medal race the final day we were watching again from the rib we'd just been watching Ian persy and Bart just miss out on that gold medal it was so heartbreaking and and then it was your turn I remember feeling so nervous for you it was the middle Saturday Super Saturday it was being called in London Jess Enis mofar team GB were on a real role and you were carrying the weight of the nation down in Waymouth what are your memories of that medal race well firstly as you said um person and Bart I mean that was just I can believe that watching that race unfold because they'd done such a good job and it all looked s of in the bag and they'd sailed amazingly for the whole series pmer there's only I think 10 boats in the fleet so although they won most of the races I think probably 50% of the races couldn't actually get much of a points jump on anyone and then that race that that final downwind we all knew that race course was really patchy and tricky and it just got caught out in a bit of a hole and and Freddy had Saed a great race um and know and um yeah I was just sort of Gob smack really looking at that that's you know really you know two great mates and so of so I was really you know genuinely was upset for those guys and um but then very quickly I had to sort of try and just get on with my own race had enough enough to S of deal with I remember i' picked the wrong i' went out with the heavy air saale or you know heavy air saale but the crossover was about 10 knots and it was actually lighter than I thought so I had to change sales uh so I was always I remember I was a bit frustrated about that um and then had to get into the race but I there always been something I I've always loved about the intensity of races like that that it's just it's kind of all on the line and it's a bit you know it's a bit crazy but those pressure moments I think kind of why you do sport right why you train because it's that's when it gets exciting and so that was big as they come really um so of Winer takes or well not winner take but whoever whoever beat who and of course PJ was their own background had a chance sniffed it if um if as happened we were Jonas and I were right at the back of the fleet um and I remember yonas did a good job defending in the pre-art um a little bit like 2000 actually I was coming in for a late maneuver right on the gun and then PJ I think in a ver ly tacked over and that completely scuppered things for me and then I was actually a bit screwed and um and yonas had had a slightly better start I remember tacking away and and that course that day was really tough strategically because uh it was sort of a really light seab Breeze and there was a bit of a wind bend around the north head the no head sorry and uh and then out to see the breeze trying to flick around a bit more to the South and you know again it's a bit of a rolling the dice moments and I didn't really want to split from yonas because I wasn't that confident which side was going to pay so I sort of tried to stay with him but obviously get the the the shifts that we had up the midd I think we went pretty much at the middle of the track on the shifts got it slightly better than he did and got ahead and then had a really nice run it was free pumping light Air free pumping so right on that 10 knot limit and I was quite good at that and so I managed to get myself through away from the pack into second and a nice little lead and this is this is okay and then uh and then I there was no way I was going to split from yonas because I still wasn't that confident in what the bruise was doing and had this incredibly frustrating scenario where he went around the opposite gate Mark which is kind of fine I tacked away and we did this really long Port tag and actually talked about there was a little wind bend around in off head which he was getting and I wasn't so it was just slowly closing the gauge and I wasn't gaining any bearing so I was constantly losing and meanwhile I could see that the breeze was coming in out to sea round from the South but I was no way I was going to split and I was constantly losing but eventually it got to the point where he was ahead so at that point I had to either stick with him and accept that he was going to be ahead but think you know try and find some way to pass him or tack away and uh I remember it the you know most bizarre you know moment we just think oh I've now don't have control over this and you know it's kind of uh you know it's kind of in God's hands a little bit um so I T tacked off and uh yeah came back again found a nice little puff you know as the breeze was coming around to the left and and still managed to stay ahead just just ahead and meanwhile PJ had gone out hard to the left like he rang the bell big time and that came came good for him and he got himself up to third I think third or fourth and uh yeah the final run in and I remember he had an incident really he well you know who knows who knows but he went he went for it went for the goal trying to get past an Slater he was a guy who i'ed first race against in 1993 in New Zealand when we were teenagers in the laser radials and we became good mates through for all of those years and sailing different boats lasers and fins and what have you and uh Dan I think was he was racing for sixth or seventh he said well no I'm going to defend the position which he did well and they had a collision PJ got a penalty and and that was that but yeah couldn't have been any closer that's for sure goodness I'm like holding my breath as you're recounting that I mean do you remember the celebration B I mean I remember the scene so well we were filming from behind you you were in your boat draped in the Union Jack hands a loft the fans on the North the grandstand area they then broke out into rule britania I mean it felt like such an amazing occasion a defining moment in such a successful career yeah I mean there was nothing you know I think can't really beat that kenu home games and being able to uh get a fourth gold medal in front of a home crowd you know it was uh incredibly special moment again massive relief I think was the overriding emotion and then this you know I was still you know talked about Ian and Bart and that was a massive disappointment and so I was in this you know I was obviously really you know delighted to have won but also trying to you know I didn't want to you know this sort of in effect you know rubbing salt into the wounds so I was just trying to be really diplomatic with those guys I could see how devastated they were and as a mate just sort of trying to actually do the right thing and and um and you know so that was that was really actually that was really difficult um trying to trying to manage that um but I remember we all got to the part eventually after lot lot of shenanigans having to do the media and then we had a team event um we finally got to the um we got to the pub down on the on the front um and uh all of our families and team you know teammates and mates were there and um we had had an amazing amazing uh amazing session and uh because you know when you're in those environments Olympic environments you know you know you kind of locked off from the rest of the world a little bit so to actually see family and friends and and and celebrate was yeah yeah very special and that was that and Olympics has passed since Rio of course uh by then your attention already elsewhere but looking back on your Olympic sailing now what was your approach what was different about your campaigns Ben that made you so successful uh well I think we sort of talk about the the work ethic the focus those are all things that you know all all of the top players had um some more than others I mean there are a lot of really talented guys I've seen in the sport who didn't really have the application I think um so that work ethic being number one um I was really fortunate in the fin that um we talked about Sid David howlet because he's super smart goty M great sailor but super smart technically so so it was really a sort of marriage made in heaven in terms of him being able to help on the technical side with the kit and so actually the first year I got into the Finn uh within two or three months of sailing the boat i' man to win the Europeans and world championship and that's purely because you know he knew he knew the kit he knew the gear he knew what sort of setup would work for me and I was able to get into the boat make a few fine tunes and be on the pace straight away and then and then managed to sail well and uh yeah so he he was a huge part of it really and I remember probably the best thing coaching advice Sid ever gave me was we said you know we started out said look you know obviously done well in lasers and and and the Olympics and so on but he said you know I think the goal should be because we all know sailing got this sort of Randomness in it your goal really should be that you're good enough that if you have a bad week you can you're still in the game you can still win and and so we sort of made that packed really and that's what we worked towards and we got to that point you know and I think 2012 was a good example of that where I really I didn't have a great week I wasn't feeling that great I didn't really sail all of that well but I managed to just about keep myself in the game to to have a chance and so that was that was a great bit of advice that I took took with me and still use a lot you know it's good bit of experience there from oldid I think your approach Ben was was a bit different to mine I mean I Lov I work I like to work hard I like to sail a lot but I like to stack the odds so I like I generally wanted to be just faster I know all Sailors want to be faster than everyone else but I I worked really hard to achieve that but it felt when I watched you race you brought something extra like when it got really difficult um you know when you needed I don't know that sort of controlled aggression you could bring that onto top I mean the number of times I watched you race where you were you know 21st at the first Mark and finished sixth I mean you need something special to deliver that yeah I mean I've always liked that element of being up against it you know to the tougher The Challenge almost the the more exciting it is again it's a bit of a strange approach I mean really shouldn't be looking to make life hard for yourself but i' certainly been a few occasions where I've managed to do that and then had that ch engine sort of taking it on and and um found that rewarding in in some kind of perverse way but uh yeah I just I just love love that challenge and yeah again we talk about a lot this downwind speed is it was a massive thing for me because I could be you know in the 20s at the Mark and be fifth by the bottom Mark and some amazing um downwinds and that was always a a great said great tool to have um I think yeah again that that something about sport which I really like and I really enjoy those moments where you have to perform and you have to it's all on the line you got to sort of make it happen um yeah I I really find those moments rewarding haven't haven't always worked out um but more often than not thankfully they seem to have and as the most successful Olympic sailor of all time you're obviously more than qualified to have an opinion on this you know how do you think Olympic sailing is looking currently how healthy is it looking as a sport yeah I mean I do have some big concerns about world sailing I don't know any of the people there really so I'm not this isn't a criticism of any individuals I just think the sport really needs strong leadership at the moment um you've got some fantastic assets there like the America's Cup you I think what Russell Cs and Larry Ellison have done with SGP has has huge potential you know there's offshore racing and I think that needs some coordination um what used to be the Whitbread and Volvo race now and where that goes and then of course at the the Olympic level the class selection is just a has been a complete mess for as long as you and I have been involved frankly um and then the Grassroots level how do you get more youngsters into the sport around the world so I think it really does need strong leadership I was I was super uh pleased to hear that you know Dave grahe um has been put in as new as a new CEO there I think he's a great guy done done an amazing job with Aman sale over the years and I'm sure can can really do a lot particularly in getting more youngsters and Grassroots level into the sport but it does need help you know the Olympic classes is is an obvious one and then you know with these big events that you've got how can we how can we you know consolidate so that you know you've got your ypics you've got your Sal GP America's Cup around the world race whatever that might be and get the the you know the top guys in the sport competing you know Pete Pete berlings are the younger top younger Sailors coming through and they I think frankly need more support from World sailing the governing body to promote the sport and promote these athletes um a lot of other sports do a much much better job of that and I think that's something maybe because in sailing before professionalism um you really only came about in the 90s 80s early late 80s early 90s and it's quite a conservative sport but I think it's really missed an opportunity in terms of promoting its it's I'm not talking about people I'm talking about the next you know the peak berlings and and younger than that um promoting those Sailors and really obviously helping them but more importantly helping helping grow the sport so I'd like to see much more effort from that I hope I hope Dave Dave wish him all the best with that role hopefully he can I'm sure he will do a good job there we have it podcast listeners the Olympic sailing career of Sir Ben anley the most successful Olympic sailor of all time an inspiring listen I hope you agree and I meant what I said if you're at all into small board racing get on YouTube and search Ben anley Robert shite Sydney there's a Brazilian post on there with fantastic BBC commentary from my great friends Richard Simmons and Hugh Styles it's a bit odd as you'll have to jump forward to about four minutes but make the effort it's incredible watching Ben his confidence with a gold medal at stake well maybe don't try it once you get back out on the water for summer racing but it's well worth the watch there is still much to enjoy everyone part two is already available online in it Ben and I talk about his early days in the American cup we discuss how San Francisco 2013 went down from Ben's perspective how he went from Jimmy spittle sparring partner to after guard tactician with a famous defeat looming that's a fascinating story in itself and finally of course we discuss how things sit now as Ben and the team prepare for their next challenge in ockland 2021 as over please do let me know what you think about the podcast at Shirley sale on Instagram and Twitter just me on Facebook and please do remember to like review And subscribe on whatever platform you're joining us on it'll be great to know your thoughts on Ben's stories and to know how you've enjoyed any of the other podcasts available online as ever you've been listening to the expert work of Tim at vertigo films who lovingly produces this podcast many thanks Tim you're a star and a quick thanks to photographer friend and Rick Tomlinson Rick kindly dug out some shots of Ben from London 2012 that you may have seen on my social media channels Rick many thanks for letting us use those and a quick thank you also to SGP for letting us use some footage of Ben in Sydney to help promote this Edition until next time thank you so much for listening and say safe everyone this is Castle One race officer speaking pressure coming here pressure coming we're 1.5 below two guys here boys we looking at 105 of 42 42 this is Castle one standing by out