LWN's Parenting and Politics: Yes, we can have it all, with Ellie Reeves MP & Cllr Sharon Thompson

okay okay so sisters allies uh labor friends and family uh we are really really delighted to be hosting this event on parenting and politics can we have it all yes we can um tonight um we are aware that child care um is one of the biggest structural barriers women face in entering and advancing in any profession but that has proved particularly true in the political sector over the years and even though I was looking through the list of Shadow cabinet today thinking actually I think quite a lot of current people at the top of the party do you have school age or younger or older children themselves at the moment and is in fact a huge percentage um of our current top team have these juggles to contend with themselves and survive so um I we really do believe that lwn even though this is obviously one of the most material things that presents challenges in accessing our democracy and in paying a full part in public life that it is doable and that women in particular and parents and carers in general should not be deterred um if they feel a vocation to represent the people from doing so just because they also have caring responsibilities and um labor women's network has done a lot of work in this area over the years in particular we're really proud to have worked closely with the local government Association to deliver some really watertight um legally binding policies and model motions on Parental Aid policies for counselors because when we started looking at this issue back in I think 2017 only four councils in the UK had any kind of formalized policy for maternity paternity adoption leave Arrangements um the councilors one of the last sort of jobs as it were in the World in whichever in the UK in which there was no formal rights at any parental leave at all um and now having worked on those policies and with brilliant members some of whom are on the call tonight having worked hard to push them through their own labor groups and their own labor councils I know that figures up to 40 something um local authorities have those um policies in place now so we are making progress there's been progress in the house as well with proxy voting Etc and yet a label women's Network trains about 400 women every year and we do see for ourselves firsthand that when that crunch moment comes on whether to stand whether that's whether to stand for parliamentary selection or whether to stand um uh whether to push yourself to be the council leader if you are already a council it is often how on Earth am I going to make this work around the kids that is the reason that makes someone sort of self-deselect from taking that further step so we wanted to well and there's loads of scare stories in the Press about uh how impossible it all is and sometimes quite a lot of negative noises so what we wanted to do tonight was to welcome people to a really positive conversation um around the ways we can make it work um and um how to embrace the challenges of uh balancing kids and um constituents and so I am absolutely delighted to have two of my really favorite women from the labor movement um here tonight we've just had such a fantastic International women's day slash week month and women's History Month in which we've been absolutely spoiled with some fabulous um guests and some really Frank and uplifting conversations but um tonight I'm really really pleased to be uh welcoming Ellie Reeves MP and tonight who I have known for a long time since our student for six days and he was always been refreshingly honest refreshingly upbeat and a great champion and for women and for Working Class People Ellie is of course a member Parliament for lewisham West and penge and was elected in 2017. she's currently serving as the shadow Minister for prisons and probation having previously been the shadow solicitor general and in both those uh roles um has been doing some brilliant work to challenge the Tories terrible record on rape convictions and that's a campaigning line I really admire in early she was previously spent many years as a trade Union employment lawyer and of course serving as an NEC member at the heart of the labor party before um when she had her own first child actually um setting up a women's rights legal advocacy line for women um at work so perhaps will touch on that later on as well and Ellie will be interviewed tonight by Elder brn's legendary counselor Sharon and Thompson Sharon is a Cabinet member in Birmingham city council which is actually the biggest local Authority in the whole of Europe and we're really proud that she's a graduate of the Joe Cox women in leadership uh scheme and also a member of the labor women's Network national executive committee Sharon is an expert in housing and ending homelessness and herself has lived experience of having been homeless as a teenager and was a single mum in her late teens and obviously now mum to an adult son so I've done a long stretch in local government whilst juggling a teenager and now a young adult and Ellie of course has two young boys herself I think one preschool early and one school age yeah yeah eight and three or one of whom appeared right in the middle of a general election if I remember right very well timed so both of them have very Hands-On lived experiences of um how this juggle um Works in reality so I am really really delighted um to listen to the conversation between them tonight and then we'll be opening up to questions later on so if you have any questions do either pop them in the comments um or raise your hand when the time comes we'll also be bringing in some contributions from counselors um as uh well to hear how it's working for you in local government but you want to tweet about tonight's event you can do show um we are at Labor woman's net at Ellie Reeves at um underscore S Thompson and the hashtag for tonight is hashtag having it all so without further Ado um and can I just say that both Ellie and Sharon have had um really quite tense and packed Diaries this week I know that Ellie's just got off the train back from a company here to his big speech and so having done early morning media rounds this morning and the um Sharon has just um squeezed in having been tackling that really difficult incident in her award in Birmingham throughout the week so big love to you both for squeezing in a slice of Sisterhood at the end of a really packed week and over to you thank you very much and no better place to be after a very long week than with the rich of sisters from the labor movement so thank you very much for having us it's clear this is going to be me and Ellie celebrity after a long week I think so thank you and Ellie I'm absolutely thrilled to be speaking to you tonight I've been looking forward to this all week and I think it's such an important topic um especially for us mums across the political space um I know um I remember when you first got sworn in actually um in in as a as a member of parliament he was there with baby in tow and it's such it was such for many of us we looked at that and thought yes rock on sister um but you know um someone that's inside Parliament how child friendly is it really being a member of parliament within that space well well accent yes and can I also just start but please I am tonight with you Sharon Claire and everyone and Jade and everyone else and that's here this evening um I always find these it has been a long day it's been a long week but I always find these sorts of events being around sisters within the labor party uh being really really uplifting and enlivening so I'm really pleased to be here this evening and and to talk about what is such an issue so close to my heart and Sharon you asked about uh you know what what you know whether it is a sort of family friendly place where we is like to have some kids a lot has changed um a huge amount has changed and so I put myself forward for parliament in 2017 when Theresa May called that snap election it wasn't something that I had been planning to do it wasn't on my radar I've just set up my own legal consultancy my husband's also an MP that adds an extra complication to everything um but it wasn't my intention to go for Parliament but the circumstances of that snap election my uh my my local mp uh said he was retiring it's a seat where I lived where I'd uh grown up where I was bringing up my family and and those opportunities don't come around very long but I agonized over it I absolutely agonized over it um had this kind of you know 24 hours where I had to make a decision about whether to put myself forward or not and in the end the thing that made me think I could put myself forward was the fact that there is an on-site Nursery in Parliament uh that's quite a recent thing I think it had been there a couple of uh years um Claire you probably know better than me because all three of your children three of your three youngest uh children all um or all went there um but the existence of that Nursery meant that I felt able to put myself forward because I knew that I would be able to take my uh is my eldest now but he'd just turned two at the time I knew I'd be able to take him into Parliament leave him at the nursery pick him up take him to go and vote uh because that's a change as well um until a couple of years maybe the year before I was elected you couldn't take your your child through the voting lobbies and we tend to vote at seven o'clock at night sometimes ten o'clock but um uh you can now take your baby through the voting Lobby um and those things made me feel as though I could put myself forward um and actually it's women that went before me um that campaigned for change at Harriet Harman for example lobbied hard to get that Nursery it was originally a bar because we don't have enough bars in Parliament um and there was there was quite a considerable resistance from certain quarters about turning that bar uh into a nursery but the fact that it had been turned into a nursery meant that I could put myself forward and I think that is a big shift in Parliament so you know you always see sort of kids now my office is just above where the nurseries and you always see the kids coming in and out it's absolutely lovely I think that adds to making it feel like it is certainly far more family friendly than it used to be yeah I think that's I think that'll be really reassuring to hear from many sisters thinking about putting themselves forward um and it's good to hear that Dynamic I have walked past the the nursery and I thought oh I didn't expect to see this yeah um and it's lovely it's a brilliant Nursery it's absolutely my son just he still talks about it now because I went to I went to Nursery School in Parliament and you know he just absolutely loves it it was a brilliant um a brilliant experience for him as well oh that's really really good and and I guess I guess the external perception um of um women who have um children that have been in in in politics and also in Parliament at the moment he almost feels there's lack of negativity that surrounding people's perceptions and obviously it sounds like you've had quite a good a good experience and having read Harriet's book you can see how much the distance has traveled yeah in that space considerably um do you find that the Kim commitments are odds or or does it feel that it kind of flows quite well between a parent and then also you know it is a Juggle it is a Juggle but you know you talked about Harriet and when Harriet was elected I think the sitting hours in Parliament was that there were 10 there are boats at 10 o'clock on at night on Mondays Tuesdays Wednesdays and Thursdays I mean how Harriet managed that is is just already women with children manage that I think it's incredibly tough and you know was people like Harriet that's led the way in changing the sitting hours in in Parliament and it was only um just over 10 years ago that um the the that we moved to before I was an MP um to to just having the one late night the 10 o'clock vote on a Monday I think that could do with further reform frankly but you've got the 10 o'clock vote on the Monday and then seven o'clock votes on Tuesday and Wednesday and then five o'clock on a Thursday though we don't tend to about on Thursdays um so so normally it will be Monday Tuesdays and Wednesdays for you for your for your voting um and it can be a Juggle particularly when um the vote runs later than let's say 10 o'clock or seven o'clock and that can be quite unpredictable so next week for example every vote that we've got is on what's called protected time which means it could go on later than 10 o'clock but it could go on later than seven o'clock but you don't know how long it how how much later it could go on for which makes it incredibly difficult when organizing child care that does make a Juggle that doesn't happen all that often anymore that is the exception now rather than the the norm um which is really helpful but you know there is that kind of Juggle that you always have to have to have to sort of you know have working out when the votes will be um uh I'm making sure Child Care is arranged around it um but you know there are a lot of people in Parliament that have bought young children and I think that sort of helps to change the culture of the place as well okay you mentioned the beginning about you know many of the Shadow cabinet having young children and and you're right they have an idea there's been a bit of a sort of you know that kind of cultural shift there's more and more people going into Parliament from both sides of the house actually um that have got young children I think I think that's good to hear the M culture shift because um as a counselor in Birmingham um I remember when a newer councilor joined she was just got elected in a by-election we'd never had a culture of having children coming into the chamber unless it was a labor group meeting and and he she walked in with her with a sling and she handed the baby to the former leader of the council so she'd go up and do a speech and he was like oh my God um and it was a real culture shock for them but it was really warm but it was also good knowing that she just thought it was normal we they were like oh this is different but she thought it was normal sisters that are sort of being selected now and to stand um and they're thinking about you know what if I do get elected and hopefully we will so we have that labor government but what what's the top three things that you would give them what advice would you give them um that anything is possible that you can that you can juggle being an MP with being um a mum as well I don't you know I don't think you have to make a choice between you know whether you're there for your kids or whether you're going into Parliament you just got to get into a routine the Rhythm I think that's really important um is getting into that sort of that that that that that that routine um set boundaries you know and empties work is never done there's always more things that you can that you can do you know you'll be asked to go to a million different events in Parliament in the constituency um and it's really important that you set those boundaries you don't have to go to absolutely everything you don't have to go to absolutely everything that you're that you're invited to um you can prioritize the things that are most important so you can still make sure that you've got that family time uh as well I'm quite strict with my Sundays for example that's family day um and I'm really strict about you know not agreeing to do things on Sundays um on Saturdays um you know I try and find things in the constituency that I can take the kids to you know there's a there's a community fair or a fate then you know the kids normally quite need to to to go along which is nice but making sure that you know you do set those boundaries and you do have that time for for the family um as as well um and you know the other thing is just making sure that you get the child care that's right for you whether that's the on-site Nursery or some other form of child care um but just making sure you've got the right you know the rights of model for you and your family because there isn't sort of one size um fits-all uh reality is that the hours can be a bit irregular um and the good thing about having the nursery on site is that it's literally um bare so your children are are there um but there are other options as well but I think just sort of getting into to to a good routine if that's really important that's really good I think that's really sounded right boundaries I think on anybody that's been on labor women's Network training boundaries and self-care are probably two things those top of the agenda and it's not a bad thing than occasion to say no yeah yeah it's hard I mean it is hard it is hard but I think sometimes you know it's meaning we feel like we have to prove ourselves and sort of you know yes I'll go to this yes I'll go to that but actually you know the reality is that you can you can prioritize things you can and I think you know looking at your right about to be the sort of self-care and looking after yourself and not necessarily does it make you a worse than worse MB because you haven't gone to an event where there's two people in a room you know it's just it's just about working out the things that you need to be at because there are some things that you do really to be at and the things that uh you know perhaps could be you know left to someone else on that occasion so that you can be with the kids so you can be taking care of yourself that's really the refreshing to hear and and I guess and having been in local governments I know that um the sisters we always give each other advice and we listen to each other and you know all of that stuff and you know have those bad days where you're the person that you phone and stuff um and I know that we've been an MP if you're in a London constituency it's probably a lot easier geographically um in terms of managing taking kids to school school run and everything else that comes with that and I guess some of those that are non-london-based and there's always a question about you know how do they sometimes manage and particularly if they're parents and the family commitments um what's the general advice that goes on in the system around that yeah no absolutely but I'm a London MP so you know I'm not dividing my time between two places um you know I come back to the to the family home after the votes I'm here in the in the mornings um different people do different things so there's a lot of MPS from there's a lot of female MPS um a mailing piece as well that that have constituencies outside of London but they uh their children um are in school in London so that they're there in the week and then they might go to the constituency up in the weekends in the recesses for example um but others do it the other way around they're they're their kids are in the constituency and they come down to London for a few days to come down normally on a Monday morning um depending on where in the country you are you can often get back after the vote on a Wednesday so a lot of people do go back after the Wednesday vote to their constituency if they can if they can get back so they're there on on Thursday mornings but there isn't really a one-size-fits-all model for for that um before you know every family is different and different things work um different things work better for you know different different people um but there is a real mixture about where people um send their children to school where they're based during the the week and I think it depends on on what works um uh but but but the point you're also saying about how we support each other um there is I think a really strong support network a month um female MPS and that's something that I've always really welcomed I mean all of my kind of you know close MP friends and women I'd be lucky because my sister's also at MP so you know uh that that's incredibly helpful and our kids are similar ages so we spent a huge amount of time to together um you know just at weekends chatting and with the kids playing and that's great but you know more more broadly than that you know there is a lot of us that have got those young kids and you know I think we do support each other um talk about some of the the issues the concerns how the kids are getting on and those sorts of things and you know that Network's there have got a strong women's uh parliamentary labor party but also you know we just didn't have a cup of tea in the tea room and a little little bit of a chat and often offered a little bit of a mode if we're there quite late um there is that sort of sisterly solidarity which I certainly really welcome that's I think that's really positive that there is that kind of sort of atmosphere in there and yeah friendliness yes everybody understands what it's like how difficult it is juggling things and paying at the same time so I think that's um that's really that's really good to hear and then from the answers that you've given me so far and I'm sort of picking up the picture that really um one size doesn't fit all and that actually in any role like this that we really need to make it work for ourselves so fit it in around our own life commitments in a way that works yeah absolutely absolutely because there is you know you know different people have different levels of help from um uh family for example um you know for example I don't really get much child care from from my family so um the the you know we have to have because my husband and I are both in Parliament it's not like if I'm voting at 10 o'clock at night my husband can be at home with the children because we're both voting at 10 o'clock at night so we have someone that comes and looks after our children on those days Monday Tuesdays and Wednesdays so we've got someone in our house when we're voting late but other people might have family members that are more willing to do that you know I remember after 2017 general election there were quite a few MBS that weren't necessarily expected to get elected and there were quite a few um uh single mums amongst them and I think there are quite a lot of Grandma's ending up doing quite a lot of child care they weren't necessarily expecting to to do for example um and so different people find themselves in different positions and say you know I I don't have sort of um family that are sort of able they're able to do you know that sort of wrap around child care so a different model works for me um and uh the nursery in Parliament you can get extended sessions in there as well to cover the boats which I used a few times and my son uh was was was was there so um again it's about sort of working out what what works best what works best yeah how do you sort of because I know when I was first elected in 2014 um I was a single mum I am a single mom is an adult now and then my son was sort of I think he was he was he was a teenager so he was getting ready for his exams at school and I had that sort of almost burn of you know oh my gosh I should be at home but at the same time he was like no mum drop it to stuff envelopes what do you want me to do um and I'll be phoning him like are you okay and I've just put the washing machine on mum I hope I haven't run anything but it was kind of like you know the the really proud of what you do yeah um but also just sort of you know not making yourself feel guilty by what social norms said should be but actually making it work and making it fun actually and enjoying doing and taking them on that Journey yeah yeah yeah I mean you know like if I was to ask my son you know my eight-year-old um whether he thinks he sees enough of me he certainly thinks he sees uh uh enough of me um you know there isn't this sense of um you know I don't feel like I'm sort of not around for example um and one of the things about the the job is that um there is a bit of kind of flexibility around it so for example I mean look I think there are some issues about how late things go on in the into the evenings particularly that Monday 10 o'clock um vote but you know in the mornings Parliament doesn't get going until uh sort of mid-morning so when I take my kids to school which is brilliant as I really you know take my little one to preschool and I take my older one to school or all my husband does but every every day one of us is able to to do that um we're not there though on those three nights in the evenings zooms helped a lot because I've put my youngest to bed um I've given the eight-year-olds uh a kiss which he objected to um and and then I've come out here and done this meeting so I haven't missed sort of that bedtime um for example but it is about you know there is that sort of flexibility of in the mornings I'm around if there's a school um play or a concert in the morning I'm able to go to it I had Parents evening I managed to get back from Stoke thankfully the Avanti trains were running so I was able to go to my son's uh parents evening before uh coming back home so that was good so there is that kind of um there is some flexibility and the other thing is um is the Parliamentary recesses tend to correspond not all the time but most of the time with the school holidays so during the school holidays it's not that you don't work during the recess because you've got all the constituency stuff but it's a different pace it is a much much different place to when Parliament is sitting when Parliament is sitting it's pretty intense particularly that Monday Tuesday Wednesday but you know during recess which coincides with the school holiday um we we're not sort of um thinking oh what club are we gonna have to put um kids into for the whole holiday we can normally juggle things really quite well and I that that's important that sort of juggling it so we're not necessarily around as much as uh we would want to be during the week but during the recess um we're around an awful lot um which is you know that sort of balance to be had okay and I guess do you do you I know for me like them at the beginning of the year being in cabinet you can be quite Manic and um in January the first thing that Nikki says to me who manages my Diaries Lots plotting your leave for the Year Sharon um how much do do you manage to do that to make sure that you you get that kind of family holiday sign and everything else that yeah yeah um I'm actually really strict about making sure that we do have those family holidays plotted in so that we um are together I find it really difficult to switch off if I'm at home particularly because you know we live in the constituency um uh you never quite switched up there's always the temptation just to do a bit of work or go to a meeting or whatever so actually taking the time to sort of you know um you know we're going to Wales at Easter for example um uh uh if just to make sure we're sometimes physically removed from sort of the constituency um from what's Happening uh in politics it can be quite important I'm not always that good at not checking my emails whilst I'm away that's something that I'm working on um but but but but that is really important I think so finding that that time one of the things about being an MP is there is no you know there's no sort of set um sort of timetable about what you're supposed to do it's not like you've got like a holiday allowance or anything like that and the hours are just that just doesn't work like that you know um I can remember um summer before last when um when uh cardboard fell when um and people were trying to get out of Afghanistan and I've got a large uh Afghan population in my constituency and it was the August you know I thought it was going to be really quiet because August is normally really really quiet um and in the end we ended up not going away because uh there was just so much um to do it was horrific it's probably the worst thing I sort of had to deal with since becoming Olympia I had citizens you know I had constituents stuck over in cardboard for example so um yeah we rearranged things that summer and things like that do sometimes happen there are some things you just can't uh plan for and predict um uh but but by and large you can make that time that was sort of you know the exception rather than what normally happens yeah yeah one of the questions I can say because I'm just trying to keep an eye on what's happening in the chat and it's one that does get asked a lot is um especially if you're a constituency MP so everybody knows you're part of the fabric and how do you manage to strike that balance of keeping your children out of the spotlight because I know you'll take our kids to the fates and you know all the great things that happen in the local community but when it comes to that kind of spot press how did you manage to balance that yeah I mean I tried to make sure the kids sort of have a kind of as normal you know of time as as possible and again I just don't think there's one particular model it's sort of what works best for for you um I personally don't have my kids on any pictures or on any of my um social media but other people might decide that you know they're they're more comfortable with that and I think it just I think it depends what's right for for you um uh my kids are ready to be young at the moment I think it becomes a bit harder as they get um older um the boundary changes that are coming through means that we will end up living just outside of the constituency when the boundaries go through and so it means most kids won't be at school in the constituency and at first I was really upset about that I was like I believe I'm not going to live in my constituents anymore and you know school that they go to maybe and then when I actually thought about it I thought you know what I think there's actually some Merit in them not yeah going to school in the constituency and living you know I mean literally like you know like like you know it's not like it was sort of like buy off of the constituency boards up um but actually as they get older I think for us as a family that will probably work better um but again you know it sort of depends it depends what works best for you as a family and I I I I I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all okay okay and I guess I guess because you are a part of the fabric and everybody knows you um in the area it probably they they're just I guess for them they're just like there's Ellie yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean there is sort of you know um there is an element of that what I find is at the moment I end up kind of picking up quite a lot of casework at the school Gates you know I I often find that I do casework for for the school mums and things like that you know and and that that sometimes again can be a little bit difficult with the the boundaries because they've all got my phone number because you know we're on the class WhatsApp or whatever and then it sort of becomes a bit kind of I tend to get more emotionally involved with those cases for example it's harder to um it's harder to sort of have that kind of emotional distance when you know you might know you know when you know their children and everything else you know that's the situation so yeah that's that could sometimes be quite tough okay okay so that's uh yeah the school Gates is always the one isn't it wherever as well yes when I used to not as much because I don't my son was at secondary school when I got elected but um sometimes when I'm in my ward absolutely and the way that people contact you is completely differently now and compared to when I first got elected especially postcovid it's just like another world really and the expectations and my son's he was 20 and I remember um when we was at he's he's now at the point where when he works he'll say God everybody knows you don't they probably I think when he was at College he came back in he said to me he said Mom Black History Month um I walked into the canteen and there's this display and my God she was on the picture I'm not [Laughter] but he's you know he's okay with it because he's sort of grown through the Journey with me so uh he said you know he he finds that that particularly fine so I think you're right the balance is different for different people and it just depends on how your family's set really yeah yeah yeah yeah like you have you know like my eight-year-old my three-year-old's oblivious to it oh he doesn't he doesn't know but my eight-year-old he is you know increasingly aware about me and my husband being in peace and he's really proud at the moment he's like super proud of it he's just like you know my mum said people's like yeah that's fake not Everyone likes him he's so out but so you don't necessarily like some things sort of you know it's lovely it's lovely that he wants to tell everyone but it's also why do you see mate I'm so embarrassed of your job [Laughter] yeah that can be quite an interesting Dynamic yeah I think one of the things that labor women's network is particularly pride of is that we've worked with the LGA and to pull together sort of sort of work around um um parental leave and policies and for those in local government because you know there was nothing there for us previously I know um maternity leave carers leave so and we think that you know there's 40 over 40 local authorities that have rolled that out so we feel that we've we've come a long way and what is the culture the same in in Parliament is it what is it that you think we still need to kind of be pushing the door where is it that we still pushing and saying actually we need change here because we need to make it more inclusive and easier yeah yeah yeah well we well we only got um proxy voting introduced for um for the people that have babies so before when was it introduced it was uh the beginning of 2019 so it wasn't until the beginning of 2019 but there was any form of maternity leave for for MPS um and beginning of 2019 proxy voting came in so if a woman has a baby they or they adopt they have uh for six months someone can vote on their behalf in Parliament so prior to that is just this informal pairing system so you expect to be marked as absent but a Tori would also not vote so you would cancel each other out but there's also behind closed doors and uh uh you know it constituents looking at it would just think that you weren't there because your vote complicated to explain the pairing system really and if someone's just checking to see your voting record doesn't on something it just looks like you're absent and if it's an important boat I think it's important that your vote is recorded um and so proxy voting was introduced and actually that was one of the things that made me think I could have a a a second child because I did think that would be quite difficult to juggle having two children with me and my husband both being MPS that would have been quite complicated if we both had to be there at 10 o'clock at night with a you know three month old baby for example so that was really really important one of the things about proxy voting though is that it is only for six months and that doesn't necessarily we've got we've got a bit of a change you now get a period before the baby's born as well um which is which is good um so it's just over six months but that doesn't reflect maternity leave in the wider world of work where you can get up to 12 months and I really push back actually on this submitted to all the reviews on proxy boating and and I said look you know there's lots of people that will be very happy to come back after six months but there may also be people that are less happy to come back after six months for me personally after I had my second child um I didn't want to be in Parliament for uh nine or ten months about 10 months I wanted to be away from Parliament but what I wanted to do is get back to some constituency work just a day day and a half a week from when he was three months and that was what I felt would have suited me but the proxy voting system meant that I only had that six months away from Parliament um and I do think that should change and that's something that I'll continue to campaign on to get that proxy voting period extended whether people want to take advantages of it or not that would be up to them but I think to give people the option is really important I don't think there's I remember my first my first child it wasn't a very good sleeper um uh and the idea of sort of working kind of at 10 o'clock at night with it would have been a bit of a nightmare my second actually was a lot easier so it would have been far more far far more manageable in the end kovitz meant that no one was Voting in Parliament um anyway but I do think that needs changing and I I also said about these late night votes that could be looked at I mean voting at sort of 10 o'clock on a on a Monday evening does seem you know quite outdated um and particularly when the vote sometimes can be go beyond uh 10 o'clock at night as well like they're going to this week it makes it really hard makes it really really hard um and I do think that could be uh that can be looked at um make it a lot easier for people I think okay so it's definitely about extending the voting and cutting down so it's not at 10 o'clock it's actually 10 o'clock when you get to that point you're like at 10 o'clock I just don't even want to talk to people let alone no no I know I know I mean 10 o'clock he's not getting home until 11. so they're not being able to get to sleep straight away and then you know the kids don't know that you've been out late at work in the morning you're just exhausted Politics the other thing is if we have multiple boats so if we if we're voting on some legislation there's different amendments they've got to got to vote on we just do them one after another and each bow takes about 15 minutes to do so if you've got eight boats that's two hours of voting so say you've got eight votes at uh 10 o'clock at night that means you're voting until midnight uh which is just Madness we've got one of the things I came over for quite a long time was being able to vote um uh sort of using your path to vote so what previously happened you had to give your name to a teller uh now you can use your pass to register your vote this is a code so now you can just use your parliamentary path put it on a card reader and that registers your vote to make it quicker it must be a way to be able to register your votes all at once you know I mean I can appreciate if one if how you vote on one thing might depend on the outcome of the previous one but that's really the case they normally stand alone amendments so you should be able just to go you know I'm sure the tech wouldn't be that difficult to be able to register like eight votes all in one go so you're not just walking around in circles going around absolutely just crazy you have like 650 MPS spending two hours just walking around around the voting Lobby's it's it's really really outdated fans outdated and frustrating yeah I'm glad it's not like that in local government information yeah voting system it's a lot more quicker by the sounds of things what do you do do you just you wrote the the end of the session or yes once you get towards the end um the chair will say um we're voting on this and and you have to just press the buttons yeah Tally's up and then it just comes along yeah just like that just like that so so Ellie I could chat to you for absolutely ever and a day but the sisters I know they're going to be like come on I don't want to ask some questions so I'm going to um open up and I know there's been some questions in the chat but I don't know your sisters if you put your hand up if you want to um ask a question um I think a good start for me to be able to see the screen loads of questions in the chat and I've made a I have made a note of um them all but there's so many I wonder if we just want to ask people to put the raised hand up then I can wash up any that people would prefer um to just uh have us read out I think also we were just gonna nip to Aaron Parker Leonard who's another one of our fabulous Joe Cox women in leadership graduates uh for a bit of experience from the local government side with tiny babies as well if that's okay yeah that'll be brilliant hello hi it's Sharon I will be very quick because I know people will want to ask questions as well and I just wanted to give a little bit of a um uh my little ones just came in so I just wouldn't go to sleep on time she did last night but not tonight um so I just wanted to give a quick um like overview of local like local Authority at my experience um Ellie I just wanted to say as well um I think a woman making a speech is really powerful but a woman making a speech wearing a baby is 100 times more powerful I think I do a little skip every time I see that um like actually a little skip um so yeah thanks thanks for having us I will be quick um so since I was elected four years ago I have been working really hard to make changes for [Music] within the local authority to make sure it was more baby friendly so I had my first baby um when I was elected actually she was six months old when I was elected um after that I got the labor women's Network baby leave motion passed uh then being the ever helpful and hard-working counselor maybe wife got pregnant again so I could test it out since I've been a since we've done that I've been able to sort of um make look at practical changes in ways we can sort of ensure that it's you know the policies there but what what are the procedures like how can we practically make that that difference um so obviously we all know that we need parents voices uh they are the voices of our young children so it's so important that we have them um you know in four years time it's I'll be on a different stage in my children's lives so it's important to catch those experiences in real time and you know I'm really Keen to hear from other women who are experiencing um being a counselor or being in politics um with young children uh some of the positives because I know what was you know the point of tonight was to have look at the positives um it can be a flexible role um some counselors do have expenses for child care as I think has been mentioned um it's set in an example for your kids I've been able to open doors I've been able to access training with my baby um through the LGA in lwn so I've been able to bring my baby along um with my mom and my wife as well to look after the baby so so again that's that's a massive positive um practical I think it's really important to look at the Practical changes you can make so the broom cupboard that was at the council offices was turned back into a baby speeding room again instead of being used for um you know all the dollar storage we got I got parent and child parking spaces I made sure that um there was more buggy book Camp provision for parents and of course influencing policy so um they believe motion as I've mentioned but also um the really sad case of um our ishak and when I took my daughter to her one-year check I didn't get asked if I had mold in my house but I got asked a whole load of other questions about blinds and chords and things like that and so I made sure that now all Health visitors and um at that one year check that question is now going to be asked uh the chief executive just changed the time of our account so um up for election this year and it's usually run straight along into the night Sunderland are usually the quickest way North Town side whenever I try to compete but still did it uh during during the night into the small hours but now it's going to be the next day loads of people aren't happy with that but um but I made sure I shouted about it and said you know accessibility and things like that so actually we'll be able to go to my own count now um you know breastfeeding parents you couldn't you couldn't you just couldn't do it um so again compassion and seeing things from a parent's point of view is so important connecting with other parents the um parents sessions and taking your kids to the toddler sessions you hear from people and you hear um you know you have that connection don't you because you're going through the similar things um just a paraphrase Tamina Ali who was a local spoken poet um us moms know the importance of holding the mother when everyone else just wants to hold the baby so again having that point of view from a counselor um who then is to be able to take to take it further so so important but again there are there are lots of negatives um and I don't want to go through loads of negatives but but for me what needs to improve or my little Mission locally um is to just have better procedures and not just for policy um but for labor and the local authority to have procedures step by step show exactly how things should be done so the the baby policy agreed but need to have um solid solid examples and procedures I would love to have a better idea of how many parents would you have um in the role of counselor and we have collecting those really really um important lived experience as the happening because that's so important baby green is totally real we will forget all of these things um and then also for chief whips within labor groups to have a special responsibility allowance it's such an important role and what I found was my labor group was silent while I was on baby leave um I came back I didn't get welcome back for all they knew I didn't hadn't had a baby until I turned up with her and breastfeeder in front of them all but um yeah so it was really important for me that and then it's a postcode Lottery as to what your labor group is like but um if if the cheap whips it was supposed to have that HR type role um they needed to be not just a volunteer they need to have a real um real important position better guidance for women labor party members to make informed and choices before but also then once they've been nudged and suddenly become a counselor to know what to expect and then a clear message from National and Regional labor to help local authorities um to change culture because I think that's ultimately what it is it's always difficult to change culture but that that message needs to come um we all know we need more parents and politics I think it's possible um I'm going to do as much as I can locally to do that um so yeah I would just need to work together to do that and thank you very much for putting on this event tonight and putting it out there thanks thank you Aaron I think you can see people are clapping around the screen there and that was brilliant and actually that just really summarized why it is so important to have more women in local government and also in Parliament not just making it easier for women to get into policy into politics but also when you are in there challenging different policies so that we can try and be more child friendly family friendly and local areas so I think that's really important and I really like the fact that you said about actually making sure there's proper procedures and it's in writing you know who your whippers shouldn't change how you are treated in politics so I think that's that's really important so thank you very much for your contribution that was great um I think we've got one question I've got I can see a hand up is it Curry yes curious hi uh hi everyone uh thank you so much for putting on this event it's um it came at just the right time for me um I I recently got selected I think about a month ago in Bolton North East um so it's been a bit of a whirlwind and I have a 10 month old baby so I um as you can probably see from the chat have loads and loads of questions around this um because I I know I want to go on to have more kids as well so and and the the sort of um chances of me getting elected could be quite quite quite high so I'm trying to sort of prepare for all options um but just off the back of what Aaron said I think um she's absolutely right and well done for doing what you're doing because that's that's so so nice to hear and it's so reassuring here as well um I think for me from my experience of since my son was born last May things like calp meetings um have been quite scary I've still been going because um I've been the treasurer since um like for three years a few years now and um there was no sort of maternity leave from that role um so I still had to sort of carry on doing that um kept going to CLP meetings because um you know it's always been very important to me uh to be there and we don't really have much help in terms of child care locally and my parents are both retired but they live 200 miles away and so it's not particularly helpful and so adjusting to that at a local level is quite scary um there's there's issues around timings of meetings are particularly helpful locations of meetings aren't particularly helpful things like that aren't thought about at that first initial stage so I think we really need to look at as a party every stage of politics um that we're sort of um that we're organizing how can we make that each stage more accessible uh you know what can we do to try and encourage more people to to get involved because for me one of my campaign Pages was to try and encourage more women to get involved and it's something I'm very passionate about but I recognize that we've got to create those safe spaces for women and families because there are a lot of fathers who want to you know play a strong role in raising their kids which is fantastic but we've got to think about how we be more family friendly and how do we do that every level and every stage um I have I have posted a few questions I don't I don't really want to go into all of them because I have asked quite a few um but thank you so much for all the all the different um sort of answers and responses that we've had so far I've really really appreciate this it's been really reassuring for me thank you very much brilliant thank you thank you for your questions and your contributions and congratulations um I'm being elected and being a mom as well in politics um la clps sometimes that can be online well where's the lp ratings first of all curious huge congratulations um I I I've seen some but not all of the chats it's difficult to I'm on my iPad because I had a bit of a laptop malfunction I didn't have time to set it all up properly so I'm on my iPads I've not seen all of the chat but um if you've got any specific questions like feel free to drop me a line as well if you if you if if you wanted six I've seen you've put a few bits and pieces in there and I may have answered some of it whilst I've been speaking um anyway but you know CLP meetings I mean the thing is it is that you're absolutely right to identify this because actually unless our structures are accessible throughout the party we're not going to have women coming through and standing for Parliament and also one of the things that worries me a lot about not having women any short lists um anymore it is that one of them one of the reasons we needed them in the first place is because people have this idea of you know what makes a good MB and largely it was the bloke that was turning up to every CLP meeting on a Friday night you know going to the pub afterwards wherever you are but um uh you know uh serving on the council for 20 25 years or whatever and actually introducing women early shortlist I think changed the sort of what MPS look like because actually you know we now have got that 50 50 within the labor party and that's really helped with uh I think changing the idea of what nmp um should look like my worries will go backwards uh at the at the next um election as we're as we're set to do if things carry on the way that they are but we've got to have those structures that make it accessible for women covid was actually I think helpful in the sense that obviously was terrible but in terms of how we moved online for things because it meant that that became much more normalized it would have these online meetings so rather than try to get everyone together in a room you could do it online I personally find my online CLP meetings far easier we alternate one month we have them online one month we have them one person in person when we have it online but the kids to bed I can dial in um yeah when they when they when they finish I can have my dinner because I've not really had a chance to have my dinner before I joined them but it's just so much easier on every level I have to go to the meeting you know I don't get to put the kids to bed so that's another a night on top of the voting that's what I don't see them um you know I'm home a lot later and yeah it is harder so I do think there are some lessons that we can learn about making things more um accessible and things around the timings of them maybe the length of them as well I don't know I mean every CLP is different but mine seem to go on for a very very very long time and I do one to sometimes whether you know we should just be a bit stricter about how long that these meetings would actually go on for do you really need two and a half hours or could you get that done within um an hour and a half and just have that kind of discipline as well around the timings that we often don't seem to have I think when we've got sort of when we're juggling or different responsibilities being a bit stricter about that I think makes things more accessible rclp kind of um try to change the date of our meetings to um to to to to to see whether they'd end up in more attendance and we've sort of briefly moved them to a Saturday afternoon at one point which I really didn't like um because I sort of felt that really ate into family time but then I think there are some other people with young children that like the Saturday afternoon um model um so you know I guess not everything always works everyone else but certainly shorter more focused meetings um online or hybrid I think makes them more um inclusive for women that's brilliant lwn really did campaign to keep the good stuff yeah [Laughter] disabled people in terms of not necessarily being able to get to meetings uh people that might be caring for elderly relatives um people you know working long hours who are time poor that don't have time to get to the meetings that were quite happily joined from online so I think there's a whole range of reasons why they they can end up being more inclusive brilliant thank you so I think we're gonna I mean we're getting to the the 10-2 Mark um and and I want to try and keep us so we can all go off and do what we need to do um I think we've got time for one more question because there's no subjects had to handle some time so um if you do you want to just yeah yeah sure um hi um you know it's really great to hear about um the different Provisions that are available once you become a counselor or one should become an NP um which of course is a struggle in itself as a woman and as a BME person but I just wanted to just raise the issue of I mean the struggle beforehand in terms of getting there in terms of racing class and how difficult it is for those women and before actually getting there and you know because they can't you know not all of them will have um child care or be able to afford child care and the whole education that they have to go through and the work that is involved before actually getting to that career and what if anything that we can push for or what if any thoughts people had on that or women had on that that you know would be worth you know taking forward really yeah I mean I think that's you know I talked about women only shortlists um previously I think that a huge amount to get more women into into Parliament that's why we've got our 50 50 in the labor party and that really helped women in terms of being able to put themselves forwards and be selected to become members of parliament and I do think the fact that we can't use them anymore means that we will go backwards and I'm desperately sad about all of that and one of the things that I campaigned for for a long time when I was on the NEC and the labor women's network has also done a huge amount of work on has led the way on um is things like um how long selections last because uh if sections last for a very very very long time it is very hard with people with uh caring responsibilities to commit to an incredibly uh lengthy selection process and things like spending caps as well for selection processes um uh I I mean I I think that needs to be my view is that also it needs to be Revisited now because people seem to be spending a huge amount of money again on um on selections um and you know it that would have been a situation where people don't feel that they can put themselves forward uh either because of the length of the selection process or the amount of money uh it will it will it will cost them because that will not lead to uh uh having a diverse parliamentary labor party or a parliamentary labor party that is reflective of the communities that we seek to represent absolutely totally agree with that um we think we can quickly push in one question from Caroline if you keep it brief sister hi yeah I wrote it in the chat I was going to ask um thanks for tonight it's been great if you had comments made about being a parent um from other women in the party unfortunately I have a negative um comment such as they're going to step down now that you're pregnant um and you know what you're getting into when you came into politics so you shouldn't be able to go on that late because you're there to serve your residence um I'm a counselor and um we had a mat leave policy this is obvious basically to repeat this um we had a mat Leaf policy that was brought in two months after I returned and I was the only person to have a baby in five years um and when my baby was six weeks old my it was a new Municipal year and my SRA was taken away so my wage halved overnight so I've had quite a poor experience to be honest um you sort of ask am I in the right party here um so I just wondered if you've had negative experiences and how you've caught with it because I've felt obviously quite um knocked by that this was last year and now I'm juggling being a counselor with a nearly one year old and a seven-year-old um I just just need some hope really from people out there and I'm wanting anyone who is a council I really want to set up like a support group for you counselors with young kids so if you're interested in that look me up Carol I'm really sorry to hear about the experiences that you've had that sounds absolutely um uh appalling um I I haven't experienced those those same uh issues from my local party which I'm really grateful for um as I say my my my eldest was two when I got elected and my uh my second was born right in the middle of the 2019 general election campaign um literally he was like three three weeks old when we had the on polling day and so it was terrible timing I do remember having a bit of an argument about the count and um someone mentioned uh the count earlier Erin I think you talked about getting the time of your account uh change was really resonated with me I mean a big argument about the count and whether I needed to be there my baby was three weeks old I said I really just I just don't want to come to the cow um I've got a three week old baby I do not want to bring my baby into breastfeeding um um obviously didn't want to be away from the baby also didn't want the baby to be at the Cow because um you know the like of these Halls like lighting it just wasn't going to be the right place for for him to to be and I got into a bit of a battle about whether I should be in the cat in the end we compromised and um uh we decided that I would uh do um a video uh we tried to do a video link um it didn't quite work so I said I'll just pre-record something so I pre-recorded um a sort of a a speech um that could then be played at the count and that was sort of the compromise and like that was a bit of a battle that I felt I didn't really need to have I kind of bought look if I don't want to be at the Cow because I've got a three week old baby I'm not gonna be at the cow and that should just be accepted rather than that be a kind of bit of a bit of a sort of sticking point um uh but look I mean Caroline in terms of sort of giving you hope um I find that um it isn't um it it isn't always easy to juggle um everything uh but it is uh certainly doable I love my job um I absolutely love my job uh you know it's uh I feel it's a privilege and an honor to be an elected representative for my local community um and although that does sometimes mean you know sort of juggling with child care um and the children I do feel as though you know I can make time for them that I have good um relationships with the local party with other colleagues um and that it is possible so for everyone on the call this evening that is a candidate that is thinking about putting themselves forward to be a candidate whether for Parliament or for local government I would say just go for it don't don't be put off by thinking there are too many barriers uh in the way um get elected and break down those remaining uh barriers and you will have the support of uh the sisters within the party that want to be part of that change with you and and that's brilliant thanks Ellie and and Caroline from me um one of the things that I've learned in politics is that there are some people who were just professional analysis of other people's lives so sometimes you just have to Simply block out the noise and so that's that's one thing you know sometimes when people are coming that you just have to try and block them out the other one is is I would just say that um I found that actually going on a lot of courses like with lwn in terms of the Joe Cox Program things that I've done with the LGA it's meant that I've built up a network of sisters around the country so there was a lot more people that had that solidarity with and you can ask questions and gain advice from and and also if there's um specific things where you know we could do either some form of policy coming in place or something standardized across the piece then I'd send something into lga's um task force women's task force to see if they can provide any advice or if there's something that we can look at yeah but um also You're Not Alone um and you have to you know just keep on going I know it's difficult but you definitely need to keep on going you was elected for a reason and you are good enough to be in the space and own it okay then great stuff wow haven't we had some debate tonight sisters I've thoroughly enjoyed it thank you very much Ellie and I guess some of the takeaways from me has been we need to set some boundaries sisters that's what we definitely need to do we need to set boundaries we need to make sure that we're shaping our political lives that fit in well with our lives that we've got at home having children and being parents is not a barrier in fact it brings a lot of strength to the labor party to society and will help us to shape a lot of policy moving forward and just from what we can see in this virtual room here that there's a lot of solidarity out there so we need to make sure we keep our networks up and keep the good stuff and that's why labor women's network will continue to do things online so that we can have these nice safe spaces and for those of us that are not in not in Parliament we need to help people like Ellie in their constitution incubancies but also to continue to lobby for the proxy vote to be lengthened please so that when some of us on this screen do get there it's a lot easier for us and it also supports sisters like Ellie that are already in there we have come a long way but there's still some work to do and with a network of sisters and a Sisterhood like this I'm sure we can manage to do that so I'm going to say Ellie thank you so much it's been a joy speaking to you I've really enjoyed it I really enjoyed it too I've really I started by saying you know always you know looking forward to this event and it's been wonderful been great to be in the company of so many brilliant women so thanks for having me brilliant thank you very much and I'm going to hand over to our fantastic cliff oh thank you sisters thank you both so much for the time and warmth and relatability and honesty that you've brought to tonight's um discussion uh thank you to our fantastic audience for all of your contributions in the chat like sort of personally feel like we could talk about this issue for about a week and we'd still just be scratching the surface so I think um the suggestion from Caroline that maybe um we not run but support the setting up of a kind of private um place where people experiencing these issues of the coal face can chat it's a really good one so I don't know Caroline maybe if you wanted to lead them setting up a private Facebook group for counselors with kids probably labor councilors for kids um we we'd be very happy to advertise that link round to people so people can carry on the conversation and be there to support um one another and those times when the negativity does hit in and I've experienced it too and I just want to say a great big solidarity and Sisterhood to you and it does get better and for every tool who says something stupid there's you know a whole bunch of people out there who are feeling the support and feeling the solidarity so try not to be disheartened by it because I think we are moving in the right direction and we're seeing heaps of progress and we are seeing cultural change so hopefully we are on the road to a better more inclusive place um if you have enjoyed tonight and you want to come along to another labor women's Network event we will be back next Tuesday uh when Alison McGovern MP at Nan Sloan and Kieran May here will be leading a conversation to celebrate the Centenary of the first ever three women elected as labor MPS and some of whom did have children um so that would be a really interesting opportunity to put those slightly forgotten sisters Margaret Dorothy and Susan back into the history books and we also have a number of parliamentary selection workshops coming up again via Zoom so you can join us from wherever including with kids in the background um monthly over the next few months so if you are thinking of understanding selection you want to understand the process week by week we will happily walk you through it and answer all your questions if you are not yet a member of Labor women's Network we would love for you to join us because every single member helps amplify our war equally if you can follow us on social media the odd Retreat goes a long way in making sure there is a feminist presence felt within the labor movement but mostly be sisterly to each other be kind to yourselves take care of yourselves and thank you so much for joining us this evening and good night