Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Conviction Could Get Thrown Out After Stunning Decision

[Music] welcome back to Long crime now there have been more developments in another case the Murdoch family murder case for convicted murder Alec Murdoch now the South Carolina Supreme Court yes the top Court in South Carolina will consider whether the disgrace South Carolina attorney could get a new trial on murder allegations because of jury tampering yesterday the court granted to the defense motion to assume jurisdiction that means jump over the appall courts and take it directly uh on one of his two appeals and this is pertaining to a new trial for Alec Murdoch based on the issue of jury tampering allegations the court gave the attorneys 30 days to file their initial briefs but it's still unclear whether argument arguments will be heard now this is after Murdoch's attorney brought to judge Jean to the lower court that had replaced the trial court that there was evidence that the col County Court of clerk Becky Hill yes Becky Hill tampered tampered with the jury and requested a new trial but judge Jean Hall later denied Murdoch's bid for that new trial and Hill later then resigned from her role of the court of Clerk and faced two allegations by the South Carolina law enforcement division now remember Murdoch was convicted of the brutal murders in March of 202 2023 for the shooting death of his wife Maggie Murdoch and and his adult son Paul verac was given two life sentences for these crimes so with that in reminder I want to bring in both of my guests Eric fattis trial attorney can see you early now Eric it is unusual for a court to jump over an appell court and take it especially a supreme court uh what does that tell you does that tell you that it's important that tell you that he's going to get a new trial what does it tell you it's pretty uncommon uh it tells me that the Supreme Court has an important interest in this case it might be defining the law defining the standard that defense would have to meet in order to get a new trial but usually there's what's called an exhaustion of Remedies Doctrine where you've got to go through the court of appeals first and then you go to The Supremes the fact that the Supremes are taking it now uh just tells me that they have a lot of attention and focus on this case and think it's going to be important uh precedent for future cases yeah and I remember Cas when the judge brought the jurors back in for the vad Deer uh as a remedy that I remember was saying she's not asking the right question she's not asking whether they talk to each other she's not she's not she's not seeing what really happened in between you know with all the jurors and I thought that uh and I don't have my notes on it now but that the that her voad deer which was a remedy you know almost like what we're talking about in the Karen Reed trial to bring the jurors back was insufficient to find out whether or not the tampering had actually been effective so what were your thoughts looking back thinking back to yeah there she is the star of the show Becky Miss Becky the court clerk I mean I agree the whole purpose of having this inquiry is to find out whether or not Justice was truly served so you have to ask those important questions and they have to be specific like what exactly did you say how long were you in the room what what papers or letters that you pass you want to make sure that the questions that are asked are sufficient enough so that if it does get appealed to the higher Court uh that they'll say that you know what the Low Court did exactly what they were supposed to do they inquired and we don't find that there were any um sufficient evidence that there was any jur aerin but I just believed that this was a small town that got caught up in this big you know um star studded event uh where cameras were in play and people just got over their heads including the clerk of court that should have known better to kind of keep those lines of communication totally separate so I do believe although uh Alec Murdoch was the most hated man and there was sufficient evidence against him everyone is entitled to a fair and impartial jury and if if the circumstances are true he didn't have that chance and missil wrote a book she was writing a book at the time and she had a co-author at the time and so there's implications against her uh that could be criminal too so this is a very important case for everybody the justice system for both of them but I'm losing both of you Eric fattis and Cas early I know you'll be back on law on crime soon uh but we're going to take a break on the other side we'll have two new guests and I'll see you [Music] [Music] there and good afternoon again and welcome back to Long crime I'm Linda Kenny Boden now let's pivot to Florida for the trial of Florida woman who was accused of fatally shooting her neighbor through her FR door Susan Lawrence is charged with first deegree felony manslaughter in the fatal shooting of her neighbor aica Owens okay uh according to authorities Owens was shot through the defendants closed door after Owens went to speak with Lawrence about a dispute over owens's children playing near the defendant's home Lawrence is claiming selfdefense and she says that she did not intend to kill Owens when she fired that shot through her front door that also killed Miss Owens she also called 911 after fatally shooting Owens and admitted right away to the shooting the police interview of Susan Lawrence has been played in court today so I want to head into court and listen in how she describes what led up to her shooting Miss Owens so they were they were being obnoxious out there tonight and they finally got quiet but then you go outside and the three of them are out there and I didn't want to go any further because he's like I'm going to kill you I'm going to kill you I'm like in the world who said that um A's kids okay so who is it a AJ I think her name is okay she actually had thrown a sign at me before she picked up the no trespassing sign and just threw it at me she's like here take your [ __ ] sign I'm like it's not mine it's Charles you know he doesn't want you guys here so it's just you know she's been in my mailboxes she sends the kids in the mailboxes when did she throw a sign at you I want to say last year I just after I had my neck fused I only broke b gravy what kind of sign like one of the ones you buy at the store like a plastic like metal sign with a little metal um yeah like a real estate sign but I had trespassing so that by that and yeah is it the same one that was out there tonight or is it different okay they stole that sign so what happened tonight that led to the conclusion that well I I just unlike kids go home so they go home and then all of a sudden she comes out and she is just banging on my door like go away I I'm not not dealing with you tonight and then she started banging so hard everything started shaking and I'm like you really need to leave and she I'm going to kill you and she's just banging banging away you know I'm like crazy since she has actually hard to me I'm like this just just keeps getting worse and worse I'm like I don't know what to do with her and she banged so hard it looked like my door was going to fly off and that's I just I panicked and I was like oh my go she's really going to kill me this time you know and so I don't even actually remember picking up the B I just remember shooting okay so to discuss this I have two great guests here Sherie Botwin who is a licensed clinical a social worker and a trauma expert and and also trial criminal defense attorney trial attorney Fatima Sila so I'm going to first start with you Fatima uh this is the charge of the felony mansau the state did not charge murder here so does that mean that the state's crediting some of the self-defense I believe they are they're this is a difficult case because um she's the defendant here isn't very likable um you know she sounds like The Grouchy neighbor not liking the children playing in front of her house but at the end of the day there is a sound self-defense claim um Miss Owens was banging at the door um she was scaring uh the defendant in this case and neighbors say they hear it and they're frightened um they don't know what's going on and so we also have the play of there's different ages um different sizes all of that is going to come into play and I think that the prosecution took that into consideration once filing this I do think a murder charge um would be difficult in this so manslaughter was the appropriate one so um when I was listening to this yesterday Sher uh the prosecution open they talked about how um the you know there had been a roller skate that was thrown at the kids and that the defendant said something like well I know what the kids are going to say they're going to call the police on me they're going to say I threatened to kill them and I'm going to be the one in trouble but the mother then come Adica Owens then comes to the door to uh to bang onor you and talk to her like like any mother would because you went behind and it's a metal door and and all so with that in mind both sides here seem to have trauma but there's only one person who's dead and when I was listening to it it sounded like well maybe maybe the defendant thought she was uh in danger but that that was a rooted in racism here is a a black woman coming to my door and banging on it so that was my takeaway I I don't know what you you think about the trauma related to all this I mean I felt and still feel the exact same way it feels like there is a lot of anger there there's judgment and it does feel like her reaction to what these kids are doing it's out of proportion to what really happened her reaction seems very strong and in terms of the mom coming over and confronting her you know as a mom when people are yelling at your children it it makes sense that she went over there and confronted Susan and again I'm not exactly sure how she did that and like you said maybe they both played a role in this but the outc come is it's devastating and it didn't need to happen no it didn't so I'd like to listen to more of this interview and have a longer chat with both of you on the other side let's listen one thing that I think my partner was trying to um get at and I don't know that I actually heard an answer to the question when you're inside the house and she's on the other side of a door that you can't see through and she's pounding on the door you make the conscious decision to aim your gun at the door and fire one round right just one round yes fire one round were you trying to hit her or were you trying to scare her off were you trying to make a loud noise to say like hey I got a [ __ ] gun get away from my door or were you think like I was never intending to hit I just thought I thought I hit really high you know I just like kind of you know it's the first time I ever really used it where I was you know like not on a paper T you exactly was like oh my God so I I just I was shaking I mean I was just so destroyed at that point in time I'm like oh my God she's really going to FR to come to my house and I was just like all I good things is go away go away go away go away did you mean to were you aiming for the door I I just just part the go cuz all I could think of is it's I felt like I was in Mortal danger I mean it's just how I F and again I can 100% sympathize with being fed up with that kind of harassment and that kind of uh disrespect um but also someone lost their life last night right no I absolutely so this is this was an absolute she's going it's either me or her I mean it's just like holy did you see her with a gun or another weapon or anything like that I I I don't know what she had on the outside you know my lights were off you know so she came up it was dark out and I'm like great now she's pounding on my door now she's scaring the crap out of me you know now my door's moving and I didn't have it properly secured and the next thing I thought she was going to be in my house you killing me I mean that's honest to God what I felt you know it's not like you know I'm fed up or anything this was a real fear but when we first started talking you said you made it very clear to the the 911 call taker that she was threatening to kill you yes absolutely and if that's not on the recording is there any reason why that's not on the recording I have no idea I'm pretty sure I said it so are you just pretty sure she said it as well that she oh no absolutely she said it Fatima you unlike others I think the defense is a very difficult case here because she knows how call 911 she could have gone into the bedroom closed the bedroom door if if indeed uh Miss Owens intended to kill her break down through the door and come into her bedroom door then that may be different story but I I you know I think that she really I think she was scared but I think her for being scared is irrelevant because it was rooted in in in this kind of like fear of a black woman and you know I don't know if you can say that in court but that's how I'm feeling for tea I agree uh I believe that everyone's going to see it right there there is a race issue here whether it's mentioned and that is going to come into play when um the jurors are looking at who the victim is versus the defendant um I do think the defense team has a difficult job here not just because uh she could have retreated let's keep a mindus is Florida standard ground laws um they're pretty liberal there but um also because this is a defendant who is strong has shown a strong personality when it comes to everything else right she's getting angry at these children she's yelling she threw um roller skates she's caused problems before so it's going to be a little difficult for the defense to paint this picture of this this timid uh frightened woman now when um she wasn't like that before but once again there are some issues that I think are going to play in her favor um she can't see through the door she doesn't know where she's shooting I think that's that's important as far as um she says she aimed high if she was unaware how tall Miss Owens was in this case she's not directly aiming at her through a window or window or anything like that so there are some things that are in her favor but I absolutely agree it is a difficult case for defense okay so Sher bwin uh in her Court personality Court presence right now she looks different her hair is a little darker grayer I mean she really looks like a sad sack but in her interview she did appear to be telling her truth I mean it didn't appear that she was lying about what she believed she appeared to be telling her truth and she did call n one so would you advise defense team to put in any type of um that she may have some type of psychologically disease personality some kind of some kind of uh treatment that was needed under the diagnosis St statistical manual um for her psychology uh as the reason why she feared this woman and would that help at all it's one of the things that I've been wondering as I've been watching the trial when I watch her in the courtroom she her affect is so flat she's looking down at one point it actually looked like she was drawing not writing so one of the things that I was thinking about and continue to wonder is is this a woman who is paranoid is this a woman who has thoughts that may be more delusional I think if they were to conduct some type of psychological evaluation we would find out more about what's behind her reaction to having to even just getting the gun because again like both of you are saying a mom who comes over knocking on the door and is angry while that can be upsetting and intimidating that doesn't sound like a situation where someone's life is being threatened she didn't have a weapon in her hand so I think it's an important piece and I'm not sure if this is part of what the defense is going to be doing in the trial but I think it really is needing so we'll have to see what happens with that and Fatima she's already given a statement to the police is there any need as a defense attorney to put her on the stand now to say she's sorry or apologize or to do anything to the jury that may uh help her in any way or or as I sometimes say putting a defend on the stand is the quickest way to go to prison but you know that may not be the situation here do you see any difference here uh I I don't think in this situation I would uh anytime you put your client on the stand it's it's a very risky situation you don't know how they'll come across I do think in her interviews um they she comes across as genuinely frightened scared um and and remorseful as well um so I don't think there's any point in putting her on the sand they could trick her up she could come across um differently and you don't want that to to further complicate how they they see her okay very very interesting we'll be following this case here on La crime as you know but we're going to take a break now and we come back I'm going to bring you to another case that we're covering here the case of Sean finnean this is truly one that's a horror show I'm not sure the jurors are ready for what they've going to hear and what they've heard and seen and this is the case involving the torture the rape the murder the the killing the putting a victim in the freezer of somebody who truly was homeless and truly would needed help instead she was murdered allegedly by Mr finnean and his uh roommate a female who's going to testify against him and we're going to hear some of that testimony stay with us on the other side [Music] [Music]