The React - Browns Surprise Cut Candidates, PFF's DLine Rankings, and More

Intro [Music] w [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] oh [Applause] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] now [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] yes sir you are watching the obr streaming Network this is an all new edition of the react uh my name is Brad Ward the man next to me is the always fantastic Pete Smith uh good to see you guys uh filing into the chat uh as usual make sure you take a moment and just a second of your time hit like And subscribe help us out uh with that algorithm there and uh uh tell a friend keep coming back and uh we will uh keep uh pumping out the content what's up uh garage beers The Big Show to tonight Nathan zura on so make sure you stay tuned for that after the react tonight for sure uh with that let's uh get into some things here Pete how we doing this evening what's going on I'm good uh two weeks away and now we've got uh Ian Valentino up and running in addition to S penx and Casey kinman so uh they all had articles come out today so check goes out uh Ian covered the went back and Revisited the 2021 draft um it's been three years and it's the last time the Browns had a first- round pick so that was sort of a a big a big draft for the Browns obviously Greg Newsome and JK came out of that so um there's a lot of good stuff in terms of the bronze did well in certain respects and then there's some things worth uh learning from yeah absolutely so uh go check that out over at theobr.com uh if you're watching on Twitter hop on over to YouTube uh.com thee Orange and Brown Report uh and uh we have a couple videos for you here tonight to react to uh we're going to start with one uh from Pro Football Focus uh where you know it's that time of year where the all the uh grading is coming out Pete and uh you know offseason projections uh every site has their own grades for everything so we get PFF here grading the defensive lines in the NFL uh and uh that's what we're going to talk about first here so uh let's uh without further Ado let's dive into this video from Pro Football Focus uh podcast um and uh Sam Monson and uh they will uh re uh talk about the Browns at five on their list here Browns let's get to the top five we'll just go PFF DLine Rankings one at a time here yeah you wantan to the top five the Cleveland Browns at five the Detroit Lions com in at number four number three is the Philadelphia Eagles number two the San Francisco 49ers and number one the New York Jets Will McDonald that's why the Jets are number one but let's start with the Browns at five because got to say they could easily be number one well credit the Browns front office for the job they've done on this this defensive line literally a couple of years ago this was Miles Garrett and nobody else and it was it was even with Miles Garrett it was a weakness because they weren't able to have the kind of impact and suddenly the secondary is getting lit up because only miles Garrett is winning well since that they have added a group of talent and they now apparently have a top five ranked defensive line you've got miles Garrett on the other side you've got zidus Smith you've got when they kick to the sub packages zidus Smith will go inside and you've got OBO urano on on the other side as well Maurice Hurst comes in and okay maybe he didn't he's never become the player that we thought he might but is a good player and certainly as a pass rusher Dalvin Tomlinson is there Shelby Harris is there you've got young players as well who may or may not make an impact Michael Hall uh Isaiah Maguire from year or two ago um it's a good group now yeah I I honestly think I might put the Browns at one one wow yeah also by the way uh siaki Ika one of the I think two or three players who I run an official faster 40 time then currently in jeans and sneakers is that why they're at five yeah because EA's on the team because I can outrun hit eeka I mean you listed all the players but miles Garrett I think the best pure pass rusher in the NFL I think it's him and Parsons uh I don't know is that I'm just remaining silent so the is that a slight to Nick Bosa is that I mean it's a slight to TJ of course is TJ's the best need a sack clean win finish when you need it guy clutch clutch there we go we should have asked Reef how he explains TJ watt clutch how does he explain TJ watt if clutch is such a small thing but miles Garrett z z zidus Smith was number five in pass rush win rate for all edges over the last two years so he's what you just did quite a Porky Pig kind of thing there with zarius Smith zidus Smith is it AR Smith SL trying to make trying to get a good social clip here for the Browns that would be a great one if you clip that and then put it next to Porky Pig trying to say something it would be perfect see I'm creating social media gold over here you could be a Tik Tok star there you go carry on is Zaria Smith lost my trans all right Pete do the Browns have a uh gripe here uh to be five behind the Jets the Eagles whatnot here uh do you think they should be ranked higher they have an argument I just don't know that it's you know it's the point that they're slighted um yeah because they do have some things that need to work out perhaps better than it the did last year um zidus Smith was phenomenal I like I know his 5.5 sacks look pedestrian and there are people there there have been people who argued well if that's all he can do then Alex rights 4.5 are good enough to replace him when zarus Smith produced 60 pressures and a pass WID rate of 18.1% which are both phenomenal um his range on the range of outcomes like 5.5 is super low relative to that uh and the reason I know that is because I uh in doing some research I compared it to when Jevan Clowney and oliv Veron both had nine sacks for this team and zider Smith's efficiency was far superior to both of them so like given those numbers he could have easily hit 10 sacks and that would have been like very easy to believe um o okano for his part you're hoping he's going to take another step forward uh I think he is a really valuable third rusher and the ability to put slide Z inside and have those guys is valuable doin Tomlinson himself has said he's hoping to play better that it took about 8 to 10 weeks for him to get going uh Quinton Jefferson being added has the potential to make this group better um and then you know we don't know what Mike Hall is gonna provide but those are all guys just to on the in you know those are guys who can all be valuable if Alex Wright takes another step forward if Isaiah Maguire can be part of the rotation like they I think the key with the Browns is they just have so many options for good things to happen which I think the reason you can put them fifth is because all these teams have that like the yeah I mean if I was to pick a team I might quibble the most with the 49ers maybe um because they picked up like Jordan Elliott and uh Yer M's gross I I don't think either of those guys is particularly I mean I don't think J I didn't think Jordan was good here so right I don't expect him to suddenly be good there Matos gross doesn't do anything for me so like I think that's maybe where I have aiv but the fact that they're in the top five they are ahead of the rest of the division good with me yeah uh you know I I think you could probably you know switch this five around in any shape what what do you think makes them put Jets at one um they've Quinton Williams is phenomenal uh having that interior pressure is always super valuable they've just got an endless supply of guys now if you're going to quibble with them it's over the contract situation they're dealing with uh with the dude they just traded for from the Eagles and the Jets basically seem to have this attitude well he'll be happy just to be with the lesser team all of a sudden that it's G to be great and no it like he still wants his money like these are things that you have to work out so the those are real issues they they they mentioned Will McDonald who was awful uh to this point um if he can play better if he can suddenly figure things out they've got a lot of options and I think to you know Robert Salah and Jeff alri their defensive coordin do a really really good job of putting their guys in position to succeed they're very creative and how they create uh to uh generate pressures um I think that's part of the reason the Browns like what they've got in Quinton Jefferson who was just with the Jets and just had six sacks and 29 pressures and all these things with that so you know I I think typically when like PFF and these guys seem like they're doing this they're looking more at the top end and once you get to a certain point yeah with depth and like lower end rookies they basically just don't count them at all um yeah so I think that's where you can get tricky because the BR like the bronze Edge group is phenomenal with those top three I don't think it's unfair to question just how good the defensive tackle position can be um and that's sort of where I think you can get a little bit of a question mark but yeah I mean if you want to pick apart uh a team like the Jets or the 49ers or some of these other teams I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fight you because I I think the Browns do have an argument now if if if the Browns play well uh if those guys take the steps they need to then they're going to be in great shape which is all you can really ask for um it's weird like Sam talks about it and he's like I you know I I feel like you could put him at one so obviously they didn't select these in order is this just what the PFF machine spits out based on rankings you think no no what they did was uh Sam hson uh huge bronze fan and I think this is where he's trying to sort of um not be looked at as a total bronze fan that he's yeah push things down a little bit but no they they he had done a list a while ago and then he came up and sort of the the rest of the staff sort of weighed in on this uh and that's how they got this sort of a average among opinions uh within the staff got it got it uh fumble says the age of the line keeps them lower do you think there's something to that I don't think it's unreasonable to question that the Browns have uh zarus Smith in his early 30s Jin Tomlinson's about to be 30 uh Quint Jefferson is in his 30s uh that Shelby Harris is in his 30s already like that's a fair question to make I I I guess I just don't care in 2024 no I think you can I think you can suggest that there's the possibility that these are guys are GNA fall off at some point and maybe this is the year but I think if you're just looking at it especially when you're just comparing it from last year I don't know that I put ton of to it but I get it like if you're saying that these other teams have brighter Futures ultimately maybe uh the 49ers are certainly younger other than like Javon hardgrave I think he's the only like resident old guy they have um so possible I mean like I said I'm not it's not a big deal yeah uh you know if you're gonna Bronze Strategy supplement or add to your defensive interior defensive line uh the best players you're going to get on free agency are going to tend to be in their late 20s early 30s cuz not often are guys going to come uh see the market any younger than that right and then after their second contract if they're any good and and when they do they get $120 million like yes the bronze price race I mean the bronze strategy which has been effective even if it has sort of an end point I think um is that you picked players who were either older or or older and had a super defined SK skill set Quinton Jefferson is the ultimate example a guy who can play anywhere on the front up and down the line has almost the same body dimensions as Eric Armstead armstead's just taller but if you look at pass rush efficiency and like pressures and all those things like he's right there with Armstead But Eric Armstead is a far more complete player which is how he gets $17 million a year and Jefferson gets four million total um so yeah that that's sort of what you're trying to do is you are if you you you want to look at it like Money Ball and you're saying in the aggregate we're going to get these this this number of skill sets are going to work fine and I think that's part of the reason that the Browns uh drafted seak eeka last year uh drafted Mike Hall this year drafted Jan Briggs this year yeah they don't want to continuously be on this treadmill like I said so long as I mean if Supply continues to like work out that these guys are there and they're effective great but like at some point you know the you're you're going to run into a major problem and then you you put yourself in a position where you could suddenly be back to 20 2021 in 2022 where the defensive tackle position is God awful so they try they are trying to get ahead of it here the difference being that in addition to hopefully drafting better um that they have talent in place that's going to hopefully allow guys to develop um in a way that is more conducive to success as opposed to well we got nobody else get in there hope it works out yeah and it's crazy I mean to think about going back and how they've approached this position p i mean the year before that right like they took a flyer on Malik McDow and it worked out for one season before he got in trouble again right like that's it like they they work in those one-year increments inum but like yeah you ultimately can run into a situation because then Malik McDow gets into his situation that you know gets into that situation he's just gone um they didn't have a way to deal with it like they signed Tav Bryant and that was sort of it and you know it was it was terrible so I mean they Jim Schwarz gives them enough credibility that they're able to recruit some of these guys more effectively certainly but they don't want to get into a situation where like the Browns defensive they don't want the Browns defensive uh tackle position to end up like the eagles secondary did last year where it may have started out well enough but by certainly the latter part of the season and when they got to the playoffs the Eagles looked incredibly old and slow and got absolutely taken apart yeah absolutely um it's interesting yeah so you you hope these young pieces work out so you can avoid that but it's interesting and and you know they've done a nice job to their point in bringing everybody back and even upgrading to to with uh Jefferson so uh we'll take a look and see what uh else they have to say here as Steve is joking around about Porky Pig and whatnot here so hang on oboo too you got that guy yeah I love that Trio up front you got do wonderin Alex Wright wonder you know you still don't know my uh 1995 WCW jokes Alex Wright was a German sensation WCW back in the day but he's also a defensive end for the Browns yes he gets to be Edge four for those guys bringing Michael Hall as a second rounder Maurice Hurst playing the best football of his career like our Derek Barnett of defensive tackles yeah right who we liked seven years ago and is better um I just think and then Shelby Harris like they have a good group of you've got star power and Miles Garrett and then a whole bunch of players who are productive but maybe underrated right productive type of players and so that's what the Browns have so I like the the high-end players that they have and I like the depth and I think they're one of the rare teams that has depth at both the edge and on the interior so I I would consider the Browns for the best in the league you got him at five yeah so that's it uh they got him at five they both would consider him at one um I think that's reasonable uh you know uh to your point and you know certainly depthwise they they seem equipped they go what you know eight deep right nine deep 10 Deep if if you want to rotationally Across the entire defensive line where you feel comfortable with playing those guys uh a certain amount of downs right the one spot they got to figure out is who's the backup nose that like that's it to me I I have absolutely no Backup Nose reason to believe that the five Edge rushers they had last year won't be the five Edge rushers they they will have this year and feel really good about it um they have you know they have guys who can fulfill roles with Tomlin and Shelby Harris and uh those guys can be really good um they've got to figure out um hopefully Mike Hall can can play now um that would help a lot because as I've talked about I just don't think short of an injury I don't expect Maurice Hurst is gonna be on this team um we'll see but I continue to be of the belief that that's not going to be the case um so whether it's seak EA whether it's Joan Briggs or insert player who's not currently on the roster somebody's got to be able to do that job yeah it's very interesting uh how they're going to handle that I mean you're asking two guys right now you're asking two guys with really no experience in the you know what little we did see from E was you know like you said he was on the ground most of the time so uh you know I don't know um what you know they they plan to do there uh if they do want to fill in behind him I guess ask Shelby Harris to do it which is not ideal um any other thoughts do you think they go off the roster even at this point if if they have to get another guy I I would expect they would um really all I see all I look at is Tyler Linder bomb and the 37 pound guard next to him blocking down to clear space for Derrik Henry the Bron have to have an answer for that and it's not Maurice Hurst and if it's not eeka it's not Briggs it gota be somebody because they can't just go into the season going well I certainly hope dvin Tomlinson doesn't get hurt yeah or tired like yeah just looking at the the the you know just looking at the Ravens and the Steelers like the Ravens brought Derrick Henry in for a reason the Steelers have done everything this off SE season to gear themselves to run the ball more from drafting offensive lineman to hiring Arthur Smith uh everything they want to do is pound the football at you and just in general if I'm a team that's playing the Browns I want to run the ball effectively I don't want to be in third and long against this defense there are too many good defensive backs there are too many good pass rushers I want to keep my team on schedule I want to be able to control the clock I want to do all of the things to keep them off balance as possible and having a million pass rushers is great but if you can't get off the field uh that's not going to help you and you know beyond the regular season which is certainly important we got to put that first but in the event you get to the postseason you're going to have to stop the run I mean we just saw this the final four last year all those teams could run the football Christian mcaffrey uh the dude for the LI the rookie for the LI Lions Jamir Gibbs uh you had Isaiah Peko who just R like you know Patrick Mahomes is the best quarterback in in in in football but Isaiah Pacho is who carried them to beat the bills um you have to be able to stop these guys and force them into uncomfortable positions if for no other reason that you are facing Patrick Mahomes or whoever it is Lamar Jackson and you are having to say to them okay we're we're forcing the ball into Patrick Mahomes hands we want to have the best possible defense to stop him as as we can and being sort of not being able to Personnel match as much as you possibly can to deal with that put you at a disadvantage and you can't see anything to the Patrick Mahomes of the world or those guys who are that good so yeah that's where it becomes super important and you because if you don't yes LeBron's have a lot of talent there but you can't run the risk of suddenly being 2022 all over again where you just can't stop the run you can't get off the field your linebackers are getting blocked by linemen uh yeah going to kill J at that point like it has a massive effect part of the reason those defense like 2022 defense was so bad was because the safeties couldn't just play the pass they had to constantly be thinking about well I've got to come in here and support the run and they're sort of thinking about they're they're in a position where they're having to worry about multiple things where as this last year it was so easy for them to be like yep I I know exactly what's coming it's third down they're throwing the ball I'm ready to go cover and it makes a huge difference for them same with your Corners I mean you want to make it make offenses as predictable as possible and that starts with stopping the run and giving yourself the ability to get to pass teams like the Bengals it doesn't matter they don't seem to care about running the football but a lot of teams are going to do it yeah uh couple Maurice Hurst comments here before we move on to our next video uh so both and I think this would be a common theme Pete and you know we talked about you talked about Hurst maybe not making the team but you know Charlie Chuck saying he would be pissed if you know H if Hurst didn't make the team Larry uh saying the same thing me too Charlie so I think a lot of fans would be surprised and upset uh if H didn't make this roster right and it's not fun because Maurice haris was was was a a a great story he was very endearing he plays with an energy level that makes fans like very easy get excited about obviously the belly rub and all those things and he did a bunch of good stuff unfortunately he's now had three season ining injuries in a row um and the other part about this which is going to be reality if the Browns continue to be good you're going to have to say goodbye to good players and that's yeah in this case it's not just because we can't pay them it is because you have legitimate you are legitimately saying no our roster is just better our roster is good enough that we can move on from Maurice Hurst and feel better about our overall team and that's it's bittersweet in the sense that you don't want to see this dude leave because he was good um but at the same time like it's a good thing you are excited about what that would mean for this team if they are if they are confident enough to have him leave the team that they feel that good about I mean Quinton Jefferson is just money like he literally is being paid uh enough money that it's not going to matter they're going to keep him but if Mike call is that good that early and you're like no we're really excited about what my H can do um which you are hoping ultimately is a much better version of Maurice Hurst um elite athletic traits he's just turned 21 uh ridiculous efficiency as a pass rusher in college against high level competition you can find him doing things against guys like Joe alt um you know those are the type of things you want so like it's there's no getting around it's going to be a bummer you see a guy like that leave if that's what happens but if that means that like Mike Hall is able to come in and get you five sacks or something like that or you know that they that the team is overall better for it um that is a sacrifice that you're willing to make yeah absolutely all right uh last comment here uh from Mark B the defense Browns Defense must learn to dominate the full game stop letting up in the fourth quarter little bit of a trend last year right I mean I know they did close out some games but did let some teams back in is that a product of the defense more do you think or a product of not having a run game to put it away well I think those things certainly work together um yeah like if the Browns could control the clock and and take the air out of the football of those things um or take games that are questionable and make them no doubters like certainly like those those are all help um if the Browns could get leads that are like two- score leads and put the opponent into a situation where they can't really stick to their game plan and they're just throwing throwing throwing great um but yeah so I think both things are both things are true and look if if if we're talking about um you know the the evolution of this defense that you know they did all they got very good at a very small number of things that is where you hope like the so-called change ups and everything else would come in and allow you to to shut the door on these things like what You' really like to have happen is is that one the Browns get leads and then two because the defense is so good and feels even better is like better than they were last year in terms of what all the things they can do that suddenly they can like get a pick six and close the game that way like shut the door on teams as opposed to playing you know obviously they really don't do this but just as say the Bron are playing cover one the entire game like at some point the opponent's going to come up with something that can at least provide some problems they have to be able to uh throw some more things at them or keep them off balance enough against good teams because good teams are ultimately going to be able to come up with answers yeah absolutely um and the turnover differential larious point in the chat Turnover Differential you know I think they are do a little bit of positive regression that way I mean they were so negative in turn the turnover differential last year yeah I mean they've got it well the offense has to do a better job with it the offense has to not keep turning over the ball in spots that just either hand the opponent points right out of right you know on pick sixes or whatever or puts them right on the doorstep to score points uh and then yeah like particularly fumbles uh I think the Browns defense had some really bad luck and hopefully they just cause more interception hopefully the the Brown's save stay healthier and are able to make more plays on the football that uh some of the things they're able to do with uh trap coverages underneath guys like Jordan Hicks is probably a bigger threat to get interceptions than than some of the guys they've had in the middle over the past couple years J if he's able to take another step forward these are all things that are are potential Avenues to help the Browns uh do better in the turnover margin but yeah there's no question that that was a it is ahistorical for the Browns to be as good as they were overall and have all these things that were just were should be indicative of of a of a at best 500 football team yeah of a good and a good defense yeah absolutely all Surprise Cut Candidates right uh let's uh transition here you're watching the react it's Tuesday night uh keep it locked here on the obr streaming network uh for garage beers after us tonight where uh Nathan zura will visit with the boys um and uh take a moment to hit that like And subscribe button here at the obr streaming network uh we're going to go to video two here this is from chat sports talking uh surprise cut candidates uh for uh the Browns uh here and uh we'll see if we agree with what they have to say here uh from chat sports we look at some cut candidates for the Browns I do want to know now that we have gotten through all the spring practices and most importantly mandatory Mini Camp did we see anyone's stock go up or down that could make someone more of a bubble player than they were maybe just a few weeks ago so I do want to preface with these are surprise cut candidates I'm not saying that these guys are likely to get cut but they very well could be on the chopping block when roster cut down day gets here first guy I want to look at is someone I did not expect to be talking about but stick with me and I think you'll see why we're talking about running back Deonte for me so why would the Browns cut someone they just signed that doesn't make sense and you're not wrong for thinking that but I do want to revisit a quote from Andrew Barry just earlier this week on NFL Network when talking about Nick chub saying one of the moments that we're all looking forward to is the first time he runs out of that home tunnel for his debut of the 2024 season and if you really look at every single letter and every single word there you can make the argument that that he may be hinting towards Nick chub returning for week one against the Cowboys since that's the first home game of the year and Barry said home tunnel not just any tunnel for the debut of his 2024 season uh which doesn't mean his first game in Cleveland but the first game of the season also Co also coinciding at home but let's get back to Deontay for so if Nick chub does come back on the much sooner side than maybe what the Browns were expecting back when they signed foran in March that could make foran you know replaceable you signed a oneyear 1.29 million contract but what's important to look at here is the guarantees right they're only on the hook for $335,000 so they can move on from him and not really be out a lot of cash it's not being out 1.29 million it's being out $335,000 um the reason why we're talking about him though is Jerome Ford really appears to have a good strangle hold on the backup SL starting running back position right backup to Nick chub and when Nick chub's not out there then he's the rb1 of this team so if foran isn't really shaping up to be the back up to chub and chub is shaping up to have a sooner return than maybe expected back in March what's forman's role on this team it's not special teams he doesn't have a lot of special teams value at all to his game we saw Jerome Ford and Pierre strong Jr and nhem Hines they kind of all penciled in to be these this team's return guys so now I'm kind of scratching my head thinking well wait a second let's just say Nick chub is back for week one against the Cowboys when you look at this Browns running back room do you need chub Ford and Foreman probably not CU if forman's not contributing on special teams why not take someone that will like Pierre strong Jr cuz Foreman's definitely not going to contribute on the field very much if you have Nick chub back and I don't dislike Deontay Foreman as a player back in 2022 with the Panthers he had 900 yards 4.5 yards a carry five touchdowns he made something out of a really putrid Panthers offense but I just circle back to no special teams value maybe Nick chub's back sooner than the Browns thought back in March when they signed for him in and Jerome Ford is already shaping up to be this team's backup SL starter when Nick chub's not there and now I'm wondering so what's Foreman going to do other than collect paychecks right so for that reason I wouldn't be blown away if Foreman is cut because chub return sooner than expected and they're not going to get special teams out of it I'm not joking all right let's talk about this so Deontay Foreman um the guy he doesn't mention in there at all is nahem Hines uh and and he certainly is going to be a factor right you would think if he's healthy um but you know Larry points out in the chat he makes a good case uh you know chat say chat username says they're not putting chub in week one I tend to agree uh if and then MC saying if Foreman isn't there who is their short yardage back which is a great Point uh I mean but at the same time I don't think I think Foreman makes this team and I think he's part of the committee early I'd be surprised if chub is there week one but when chub does return what happens to that room you think Pete so uh when his his theory is interesting I guess um when Deontay Foreman was signed I always looked him as sort of a bubble guy relative to the draft and then the Browns didn't draft running back they did sign Aiden Robbins as an undrafted rookie okay I mean we'll see what he can do I I don't he's the threat to to take out Deontay Foreman so I hadn't really thought about the idea of getting rid of Deontay Foreman I think it's more interesting in a world where Deontay foran says hey you can cut me I'll just sign on the practice squad and you can activate me and and do those things but in general I don't think Pier Str gonna make this team he did you know yeah he didn't do anything like you're going oh man I can't wait for more Pier strong um not that he's untalent I'd really like him coming out of college but he just yeah kept see fall down for reasons that had nothing to do with opponents yeah's he's got some good burst and he gets vertical really well Najee Hines which was what I liked about him but like you said a swift win knocks him over I mean so the Hines part is interesting because he's not necessarily a true running back yeah he can certainly line up at the back field and he can certainly get you you can certainly hand him the ball but I think particularly in empty formations or if you want him to be specifically used like a wide receiver where he could be a really big matchup problem that's where I sort of look at him and you know for me I have cut a tight end have the bronze only carrying two which is what allows you to carry six receivers and four running backs I think Deontay Foreman does uh take the short yardage back role that Kareem hunt had last year I think he's better at it obviously Kareem hunt playing through uh a torn abductor is insane to me but uh you know all the props in the world for him try to do that but he wasn't fast anyway uh I mean it just made him look even slower um Jon foran's got a little more juice he's bigger um stronger and the offense caters to him keep in mind that du Staley is a big Deontay Foreman proponent um I'm sure those those things are absolutely related so if if you think of nahem Hines more as a sort of skill allaround skill player then I think your running back room really looks like Nick chub Deontay foreman and Jerome Ford and I really like Jerome Ford I think he could be really a lot like I think he could be really nice Cog in the offense if he can build on what he did last year um but there are going to be times where you just want to be able to hand the ball to Deontay foran you know exactly what he's going to do he's going to pound the football and go and that's never been Nick chub's specialty because he likes to wait he likes to see it um that's his game Deontay Foreman don't care Deontay foran is going to go and particularly on short yardage especially if the Browns you know with deshun Watson who has freely admitted he sucks at uh sneaking Deontay Foreman may be that dude unless you're gonna put jamus Winston in there I'm not saying they won't or if you're gonna do something else uh like go with my my guy go with my call at fullback Deontay Forman has a lot of like a lot of work he can do I mean why not just is there any good reason why you couldn't line up in the eye and put Foreman at fullback in that scenario and just give him a shorter shorter porch like there are a lot of things he can do so I think it's interesting in a world where Deontay Foreman is then like cool I'll stay here sign to the practice squad and you can activate me since they changed the practice squad rules and how that works um and then like I I suppose it's possible that somebody else suffers an injury they can pay Deontay Foreman a whole lot of money to leave so ultimately I I don't think it's gonna happen but I do think that's s of an interesting thing I think it's G you're just keep four running backs and really n hin again he's more of an offensive weapon and he's sort of a special team spot guy on the roster and I think the Bron's gonna count for that like I said I only have them with two tight ends um I think there's ways they can massage this because again we've sort of talked about I don't think the Browns care about getting another tight end tight end yeah um I think they basically go our fourth receiver n Nim Hines Jerome Ford or whoever is going to be better than who we might bring in as a free agent or unless you know unless trayon Welch is going to be that dude I think they're comfortable with that I think they will just lean into the fact that they're like it's David nooku or bust and I like I'm okay with that because of their willingness to use lineman th those rules because of their ability use receivers in those rules I'm not too worried about it so I think that's where you can keep an extra spot keep guy but I think particularly when the pads come on um as I sort of talked about he's you know him showing up without pads on like he he should have shown up to OTAs in pads like that's just how he that that's all he does hit people which is great that's exactly what the Browns want to do like that's the ultimate you know he's never I don't think he's ever played the AFC North but like you know the quote unquote blue and black division that's sort of what Deontay Foreman is like he has a lot of if the bronze offensive line can block better uh than they did last year healthier and all those things if Joel ponio is back to being Joel ponio like Deontay Foreman can eat uh and create a lot of yardage and and like the thing we've sort of talked about is like whether they want to wait on when they activate Nick chub or they just want to sort of like limit his carries just a little bit Yeah Deontay Foreman is a perfectly capable back to do that and you have Jerome Ford so I think like the Browns want to have a a capable running back room Sans Nick chub but they want to have Nick chub to just make it that much better yeah absolutely yeah it do it it Pierre Strong feels like that it feels like Ford Hines foreman and then chub when he's back right and you make it work that way uh I would agree that Pierre strong is probably the odd man out here I would love Pierre strong in the practice squad that that would be fine but I like I was really excited when the Bron got Pier strong like him out of college and then there a couple things you're like wow he he is really fast or all this other stuff and then there are times you're just like he fell down for no reason he just like tripped over his own beat uh and just could there's always sort of like if if he could only fill in the blank you're like he could be really good well yeah I I don't think the Browns have time for that unless he's gonna just be awesome in in in in training camp and in preseason and stuff you're like he's so good we have to keep him I I don't foresee that being the case yeah uh me neither and and like you Jerome Ford said be ideal practice squad guy because he does have some burst and stuff and you uh Larry pointing out again you need two kick returners with the new kickoff rules I I understand that Larry but they don't necessarily have to be two running backs and I certainly think Jerome Ford could do the job as well he uh look I think the Bron are are licking their chops at the idea of putting jome Ford back there he was good under the old rules I think he's like perfectly cast under the new ones um I think him and aahe hindes are your two guys I think that's basically a done deal now yeah interestingly enough it would be really fun if Deontay Foreman could do it and just bll through people he just doesn't necessarily have the Breakaway burst hell put you know if if if you know there's a world where Nick chub could do it I don't think that'll happen but that's why I think Ford and and Hines are perfect for it I don't think again I don't I just don't think Pierre strong is GNA be that tantalizing you're like man I cannot wait to get more Pierre strong strong on the field um Drew and Brick City is prochet making this team I would say unlikely to probably almost not because I mean he was great last year but if Hines is healthy that he takes his role James brochet was on the practice squad last year because all he can do is special teams and that's valuable to have that on the practice squad if he has no Market seemingly um he played he played the entire last game on offense in that glorified exhibition against the Bengals I don't know if he caught a ball like he just doesn't do anything else and that's that's fine like that is why you have him you get that depth on the practice squad and then you roll with it I think James pet know exactly it knows exactly what's GNA happen he was here last year I think he's comfortable with it he's I think he's going to get released and be like I'll see on the practice squad and that's exactly what's going to happen and he's going to just chill living in Cleveland uh another year or however long but I just don't see any compelling reason to keep him the Browns have infinitely better options that are actually wide receivers yeah uh absolutely all right so let's move on to uh number two here Isaiah Maguire on our list our guys list uh from chat sports of surprise cut candidates uh second cut candidate defensive end isaah Maguire this one seems premature because it is premature right he was a fourth round pick out of Missouri last year he's not getting cut this quickly right I don't disagree and I don't think that we will see ultimately Maguire get the axe but we didn't see a lot of him last year so it's really the hard to have a strong opinion on him played him four games he made one start week 18 in Cincinnati total of 94 snap throughout the entire season he was predominantly a healthy scratch but when you look at the Browns defensive line room they didn't make a whole lot of changes which is kind of good and bad for Maguire at the same time right they didn't bring they didn't um they didn't add anyone new but they also didn't let anyone go so Isaiah Maguire going into his second year finds himself in the same spot he was last year behind miles Garrett zarius Smith okaron and Alex Wright on this depth chart so if you're not moving up and you're staying still you can make an argument you're moving back and that's where I could see a path where maybe Maguire despite it only being his second year maybe they decide we don't need five defensive ends and they go a different direction the next player I want to talk about is David Bell he is this fan we lost Pete for a moment there I'm Maguire sure he'll be back in a moment here but uh listen Isaiah Maguire uh Jacques CER new defensive line coach uh has already been singing his Praises in the off season he was uh talked at length about um Smith uh pardon me uh Maguire Smith Isaiah Maguire uh as he is uh you know guy he was really excited about uh he is a guy they are bringing along um just fine and probably would have a chance to play on a good majority of uh defenses but is just so stacked at at edge here with the Browns that he's kind of stuck behind them uh and uh I don't think there's any chance that he is cut from this team uh I think that as I Pete I just kind of mentioned that you know Jac saer talked uh a lot about uh Maguire this off season and how high he is on him and I I just don't think that uh he he's uh um going to be cut I think he'll be a part of the team so only G to be 22 had fantastic production against the SEC he's a power player uh explosive the only thing he really doesn't have is agility he's not a guy who's gonna Bend The Edge but you know you can be a very good player and a very good fit for what the Bron want to do without that um I think uh we are unaccustomed to having players sit and develop um but like I love the Isaiah McGuire pick I'm really excited to see what he can do uh when practices start rolling and the preseason gets rolling because he could do everything right and still end up being the fifth defensive end because of the talent on the Browns which is what you want like you want to be so good that good you know you have good players that can't find their way on the field or if they an injury he can step in there and play there is virtually zero chance he's not going to make this roster I don't unless he just walks up and like punches Jim Schwarz in the face I think he's gonna be on this team because he's exactly what they want like you want you know the that's what you sort of talked about the defensive tackles the Browns want to get young guys to sort of carry this thing over they've got to find whether it's Alex Wright or Isaiah Maguire they need one of those guys sort of eventually be able to replace zidus Smith yeah um they like I I think he's perfect for what this defense wants to do um I think I I just really like what I saw from him coming out of Missouri I think there's just a lot of Talent with him I liked him better than his teammate who just went in the first round um I think he has a chance to be a very very good football player it doesn't mean he's going to be like you know a pro bowler or anything else but just in terms of like a guy who can consistently Be an Effective part of your defensive line I think he can do that I don't rule out the possibility he can't be a long-term starter uh that ultimately can replace uh zidus Smith eventually like he's he's the type of guy you want to have as your fourth and fifth defend the end because the Browns have the three top guys who they expect to be impact players and then they've got two young guys to sort of develop behind ideal situation there's no reason not to have it the Browns want DNS anyway uh they have multiple guys including potentially Maguire who could kick inside um because of the way he plays he's perfect for what this team is like I said cannot wait to see what he looks like in preseason because it would not surprise me at all if he I let I just can't wait for the preseason in general and because the Browns can be rolling out with the defensive line that is Isaiah Maguire Alex Wright Mike Hall seak EA and then rotating Joan Briggs and you're just like yeah yeah I will I want you watch this give me this yeah I both the offensive and defensive lines are super interesting for me the preseason wide receivers is interesting for me in the preseason like this isn't you know the bronze are are have gotten to a point where you're like this was no different than DTR last year where I was like I was really excited to see DTR play last year in the preseason and he was great in the preseason a lot of fun incredibly risky and all that but like and then you were like hey the pr is over I will see you next year DTR and if only it worked that way like I'm excited to see these guys I'm excited to see the jari thrash of the world and David Bell and Cedric tomman like because they're gonna have to play these guys yeah and like that's a great opportunity for those guys to get work so yeah I like cannot wait for that that's gonna be fun yeah there there's a there's so many guys and so much talent down the down the line on Schwarz the roster that it makes it'll make the uh the preseason actually quite enjoyable to watch that some of that uh play out all right let's move on to the next one here bces next Anthony Schwarz also a third round pick and of course also a wide receiver but the 2022 2022 third round pick out of Purdue has been pretty quiet to put it bluntly through two seasons so far with the Browns six career starts throughout 31 career appearances um the issue is that he has actually seen a decrease in his usage his first year with the Browns he played 47% of the snap SNS on offense last year at the Browns he played 20% of snaps on offense so we're seeing a decrease in his workload and we're seeing the Browns continue to draft wide receivers so when you look at the Browns wide receiver room let's say the Browns take six wide receivers Amari Cooper Jerry Judy Elijah Moore Cedric Tilman and now we start to get some bubble guys David Bell is not going to be there for special teams James crochet could help out a lot more in that area got Mich Woods Jamari thrash he's a lock so Cooper Judy Moore Tilman thrash I got five players if all healthy making the 53 man roster which means Bell Woods Darden prochet are all going to be battling it out for the last spot and if one of them is a big contributor on special teams and with the new kick return rule that's going to put a lot more emphasis on finding good return players David Bell may be the odd man out um I I also don't feel like we're going to see David Bell get released uh last year for Cleveland he did kind of have a strong end to the season he ended on a high note couple of touchdowns in that Bengals game overall in the year 167 yards three TDS I still think David Bell will make this roster I don't think Andrew Barry wants to move on from a third round draft pick that quickly did something similar with Anthony Schwarz but I feel like Bell is much further along than where Schwarz was at this point so my gut tells me Bell still makes the roster but I won't be sh shocked if the Browns do cut them who is wide receiver six David Bell uh I think David Bell his argument is reasonable but he's looking at the wrong guy uh when he says Andrew Barry doesn't want to give up on David Bell everything I've seen since he's been drafted is Kevin stefansky loves David Bell all about David Bell because he's super smart does a lot of things uh just and blocked a ton last year I think the point about the snap snaps is worthwhile obviously Cedric Tillman took over and got a lot of those snaps uh in addition they've added Jerry Judy and like all these other things so like that is reasonable I would disagree with the idea that David Bell can't contribute on special teams he has I also think he could be good on the kickoff return uh the way it's going to be done because he's a big dude the Browns have shouted him out by name in connection with Choice routes I think they are hoping that he can be the Jarvis Landry clone or you know bigger stronger version of Jarvis Landry that I never understood why they drafted him to do that but that is like the only explanation so I do think it's not unreasonable that he could be beaten out the the question I have is if Kevin stefansky still loves David Bell because he's smart and does all these things and might be the greatest fourth down receiver I can think of off the top of my head right now that's contrasted against Michael Woods who did himself no favors by getting suspended for reasons I still don't know last year while he was hurt but Michael Woods can play special teams uh Michael Woods is bigger is a big guy he's over two he's 200 plus pounds because all the Browns receivers basically are um has more of a deep viability than than Bell does obviously but like I would say that most people that most people think uses his strength downfield to create separation well there are things that make him interesting you he does sort of stand out um in just in terms of physicality and practice um so and and the Browns were like quietly excited about him you know his rookie year and then he had whopping five catches so I I I don't know but I would I would say that like he's the guy that stands out to me that would be the greatest threat to David Bell to unseat him him suggesting I I think the the interesting part with David Bell could be they don't cut him they trade him um that there are teams out there that just don't have enough wide receivers and need a guy um I'm not saying the bronze would make this trade because I don't think they would but if if David bill was released the first team that would probably be trying to get him is Pittsburgh because they don't have any receivers um yeah there are a lot of teams in this boat new England jumps out that needs receivers and has the connection of Alex vanel um so it not impossible that maybe he would get traded and that would sort of be the reason that they move on from him but like he's gonna have to fight it out I mean there's no question like I think he's right those other five guys are locked in I I do think Jamari thrash short of short of doing something incredibly stupid or just being awful is going to make some make this team like yeah they like him for what they they he's the one guy who's been added to this team uh through the draft anyway since kend dorsy was hired so that is with the through the lens of kend dorsy is in the building what is he sort of looking at with these guys they like Jamari thrash and he can do some of the stuff in terms of choice routes he's a guy who can get open with separation he's a guy who can play inside and outside there's a lot of things that they like about so David Bell it's not impossible I know there are any number of fans who want to pack his bags and move move his stuff for him but I would tell you that like there there is guys who are smart do their job and just do the little things which David Bell does th that carry that goes a long way with coaches and teams and you might look at more upside and and some of these things but like when when when David Pell is called upon he does his job and makes plays like they're not pretty but like Jacksonville Jaguars game he wins the football game he yep he just does stuff that you like and I'll be curious to see if he can sort of establish himself in a world where he's got more freedom uh can he sort of become that guy who's sort of able to use his size and strength to create a little bit more separation uh in this offense where he can be a shorter option but here again this is always my been my thing is like I don't I I I admired David Bell in college his production was phenomenal at Purdue but like I I never understood why the Browns thought of him as like hey we gotta try to recreate this thing that I wanted to get away from desperately yeah Jarvis that is true now that obviously the big difference is is David Bell coming in was you know $14 million cheaper but nevertheless um um I just I I hated that fit offensively as much as I hated it like from a cost standpoint it never made sense to me to have David nooku theoretically patrolling the short area of the field and then having Jarvis Landry do the exact damn same thing and I never want to throw the ball to this guy I always want to throw it to the giant 240 pound dud can run yeah absolutely makes sense um a couple guys in the chat mentioning you know you mentioned the trade I idea uh concept you know at wide receiver a couple guys and this isn't the first time I've heard this now I will kick and scream and yell if this ever were to come to fruition I am totally against it so let me preface that but guys mentioning uh would the Browns ever consider trading Elijah Moore uh at this point being in his final year if they got a good offer um I hate it I'm a huge morean F I want to see him Excel with the Browns but I I do see the angle I I think you'd have to Define good offer because otherwise no there's no sense in doing it yeah um if I should say no sense in doing it right now there's a world where it would make sense in season but right now because he costs nothing the Browns need all the cheap guys they can get uh Elijah Mo has a skill set that is valuable I think a skill set is valuable in this offense that they want to run um he gets open he just gets open all the time and when he's had opportunities he made big plays um the two times he's been the number one receiver for this offens when Amari Cooper was out he was great um played great yeah and then he got injured obviously but uh like just a terrific terrific receiver in terms of talent I would like to see it work for him but fast forward we're by the trade deadline Jamari thrash and Cedric Tilman are crushing it okay then you can have that conversation not unlike it would be you'd be playing out the exact same situation you had last year with Donovan peoples Jones Donovan peoples Jones was moved because Cedric Tilman was based on the bronze valuation too good to sit they wanted to get him on the field because he's crushing at practice and so they make the move to trade the in people's Jones to create that space they get something out of it because they also made the calculation as you might be with alijah Moore he's not going to be back um so they get something for Donan people Jones SED com goes in so let's say jari thrash is so impressive that they're like okay like there's an offer here we're gonna take something as opposed you know we're gonna take something and we're going to get a player we feel feel really good about I don't know how likely that is but I suppose it's a possibility but like overall I I suspect they're going to keep Elijah more another guy I think they really really like um I mean I think he's a coach's dream in a lot of ways uh again because he's just psychotic in his work ethic and how seriously he takes this you know it makes it very easy for you to root for him to have success because he worked so hard at it so I don't think the Browns are in a hurry to do anything with him and certainly not like before roster cut down yeah agreed hope they don't do anything with him all right uh we're gonna skip over this little portion here see if we can get to uh the next uh which T seaka if I'm power ranking these three guys on screen after Deontay Foreman to get cut seaka eeka is probably towards the top of the list and seaka if you're watching I'm sorry for me it's just a numbers game look at the defensive line let's count them out together guys that we know are going to make their roster dvin Tomlinson Shelby Harris Quinton Jefferson Michael Hall that's four defensive tackles the Browns last year only took four defensive tackles they've never taken more than five with Andrew Barry's the GM so that leaves Maurice Hurst who I think is going to make this roster because he was awesome last year and then there's seak EA look at me everyone how how does he make it like there's six guys right there and there's at Max five spots and I think Hurst should get that job over eeka based on the way Hurst played last year how does he make the roster for a reason we all forget about injuries injuries injuries injuries as a society and by Society I mean football nerds that watch content in the summer shout out to you we get so wrapped up in roster projection and it's like putting together a wedding invite list which I'm currently in the Battle of doing right now um and you believe everyone's going to come and you got this huge number but you forget about the NOS forget about that your weird cousin probably won't come if they live in Portland so let's not forget about the injuries the Browns are likely to sustain during the pre-season I don't want this to happen but we would be putting our head in the sand if we did not acknowledge that there is always going to be a player or to who gets injured That was supposed to make your roster last year jaem Grant Michael Woods Jacob Phillips three guys that you asked me well before the season are these guys going to make their roster I say yes to all three three roster spots open up because of that the year before that un fortunately jaem Grant again Nick Harris and Dawson Dean three guys that I would say are all making the roster so at the moment it may sound impossible but we do have to remember there are injuries Fifth and final surprise cut candidate we had him in our last video any comments about e we kind of covered that already a little bit only only that he's looking at the wrong injury like yeah injuries could happen and that's certainly something that could come up and and but to me it would be opening the spot for Hurst um yeah you need insurance for doin Tomlinson if it's not eer and it may not be um and it's not Briggs you got to find another dude you you list off Quinton Jefferson Mike Hall uh and mauce Hurst none of which can do that job Shelby Harris is a very good professional uh defensive lineman I just think he's very well suited for exactly what he does play the three can be a very credible run defender in that role I don't think he's going to be a guy that he just doesn't play the A and nor should he um you've got to find somebody who can do it so if you're saying it's not e okay I just don't think it's going to be rear yeah uh me neither and uh all right so here we go last one but I'll include him again to kind of refresh everyone in the latest revolving around second-year quarterback Dorian Thompson Robinson so DTR remember suffered a hip injury towards the end of the 2023 season and that hip injury really lingered into the off season we didn't see him much at otaa as a result he was participating during team drills during mini camp so that was a really good of progress in his rehab back to the field um last year three starts eight appearances Al together unfortunately I don't think the box score does a Justice when talking about Dorian Thompson Robinson like that Ravens game was disaster from the start I felt like DTR improved as the season went along and from every single start he got better and better but once again I go back to what I talked about with eeka in the defensive line it's kind of a numbers game someone is getting traded like the Browns have four quarterbacks on their roster and none of them are just like obvious udfa cut candidates so someone is either getting cut or they're getting traded and I do think all four of these quarterbacks are good enough to get something in a trade you're not trading Watson I don't think you're trading Winston but I also wouldn't think they would trade dos last year at this point of the off season and that happened but I'm more confident they hold on to Winston than dobs uh so that leaves Tyler Huntley and Dorian Thompson Robinson so in all likelihood Andrew Barry may just be sitting back and waiting for a team to lose their starting quarterback for a period of time and dish out DTR Huntley for a fifth round draft pick again do you agree that one of the quarterbacks will get traded listen I DTR is going to be on this roster you can't right you can't let him be the guy that is exposed waivers I just think that's insane um so I think he's a lock for the roster I'll let you comment on that in a second and I would be surprised if they tried to trade anybody just k a little PTSD from last year um so again we've talked about this I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what that third spot is for it's for the future it's for development otherwise just carry two um yep he's DTR has got tools to developed TTR I you know to his credit he said the box score was not very indicative I agree I thought DTR got a lot better over the course of the thing I I was really impressed by what he did against the Broncos and that last drive against the Steelers um Tyler Huntley is fine but he had no Market um but I do foresee a scenario where the Browns do trade Tyler Hunley and that is pretty simple Andrew Barry goes to Philadelphia takes Adam Barry's badge into the building onto the practice field with a tire iron and wax Jaylen Herz on the knee boom we've created a trade market and now we trade we trade Huntley to the Eagles and we're all set so that's fine um but other than that like I don't I don't think it's unreasonable that you could trade Huntley I think it would be like a conditional seventh yeah uh but but the the team that still stands out as the most likely place for Tyler Huntley is the Baltimore Ravens yeah do you know who their backup quarterback is I do uh it's uh but I he's not very good it's what's his name play 35 seasons in the league as a hint how many seasons 35 35 estimating I might be a little bit over but it feels like that because he's played for 153 teams I thought it was that uh the secondy year guy third year guy who is it Josh John and then they've got two undrafted they've got the the dude they took in the seventh round the quarterback at Kentucky and then the dude that the undrafted guy uh they got from the University of Cincinnati that is currently their depth chart behind Lamar Jackson I think they are basically waiting until teams cut down and grabbing a quarterback now it's possible that that uh they don't want Tyler Huntley doesn't fit the style that that uh Todd monin runs but I I think if uh push comes to shove they'll take Tylor Huntley because they know what he is and they can sort of figure it out with him but like Josh Johnson from the University of San Diego has played everywhere including Cleveland is not going to play they cannot seriously go into the the season with that um so I think that's ultimately one of the possibilities where Tyler Huntley could end up you could see a conditional pick swap or something like that or maybe just gets cut I I don't know but like I I don't see any sense in DTR I saw too much uh that would want to see they still want him to be the the the long-term backup they want to get off of the uh having to sign backup you know a backup to real money every year they want to make it cheaper they want to have a guy with continuity who's been here in the system a guy who can play the same offense as the starter DTR can do all these things he makes all the sense the world you know I I have always viewed Tyler HT is taking this opportunity yes he's competing but really he's here to get better and try to addition himself for everybody else yeah uh it tend to that makes a lot of sense now uh it is Josh Johnson Devon ly and Emory Jones are the other two de lry from Kentucky Emory Jones The well-traveled Emory Jones I thought they had Malik uh what's his name the they do and he's a wide receiver what that's Insanity that's what the Patriots messed around with him initially uh I mean it's possible that maybe the Ravens like I this seems insane to me in the NFL that you would be like hey take all the Reps at wi out by the way our starting quarterback went down we're gonna have to go th throw you back at quarterback i l Cunningham to me was a lot of fun out of Louisville I would have taken him as an undrafted rookie uh but now he's on his second team so yes Malik Cunningham operating as a wide receiver for the Ravens currently so uh yeah it's Bleak that is wild they yes he's listed as a wide receiver behind devontes Walker wow okay Deontay Hardy Tylan Wallace Rashad baitman Nelson aalor Z flowers yeah hold hold on to that list keep that list in your mind keep that list in your mind mind because it's going to become relevant here here uh here relatively shortly all right here we go uh let's uh go to our final video of the night take a moment hit like hit subscribe hopefully you've enjoyed the show uh it just takes a moment of your time uh that's Pete Smith I'm Brad W this is the react we'll get to our final video of the night as uh typically usually we like to finish it out with the ultimate Cleveland sports show tonight debating pff's results on uh I I guess they did uh they took each position of the uh from the AFC North like you know what team would you select for wide receiver for offensive line defensive line secondary Etc and that's where we get into this uh debate somewhat about who secondary is better the Browns or the Ravens a weekend long series putting together the quote unquote perfect team using position groups for each division and here is how PFF selected the AFC North perfect team they took the quarterback room of the Baltimore Ravens the running back room of the Ravens the receiving core of the Bengals the offensive and defensive lines from the Cleveland Browns and the linebacking unit and secondary of the Baltimore Ravens which sparked some debate in the chat that I wanted to bring onto the show do the Ravens really have a better secondary than the Browns G what say you uh I don't believe I don't think uh I don't think they got better Corners I think they got better better safeties um when you look at PFF I believe PFF when they ranked uh the cornerback position I believe they have uh I think uh Denzel Ward is 17 he might he's anywhere from like 12 to 17 I believe Greg Newsome is rated 20 and this is this is top 32 Corners top 30 32 Corners right so they got Denzel ward in there I think he's at 12 Then I then you look a little bit further Greg Nome is at 24 MJ Emerson is at 35 nonsense that's insanity why is never mind but throw a fit and MJ Emerson at 35 is absurd to me sorry comment no I mean he uh look I think he's great I think the way they they Gade Corners is a little more subjective like I understand the way they do it but like I think there's more room for interpretation like in terms of uh you know if you look at like grades for Corners you can have guys with really high grades that aren't very good or vice versa it's just because it's such a naturally volatile position you can end end up all over the map yeah I just think it I mean if you look at his other statistics and a lot of what he did last year he was top of the league and a good number of metrics that really matter at defensive back so just found it wild that I feel like he's being overlooked but we'll continue so you take you take a look at that like that's like three out of the top 35 Corners in the entire league so when I'm look looking at it I'm like nah Humphrey is dope uh I think Hamilton is a is a superstar um he is a monster uh he's huge he's fast he can play the ball I think he's what's up next he's a monster but if I had to take the total approach I got to go with the Browns Corners I would take the Raven SEC Raven safeties before you chime in Earl just to clarify those PFF rankings G uh when they did their top 32 cornerbacks Marlon Humphrey was 16 Denzel was 17 and Newsome was 24 Emerson 35 no other Ravens were on the list when they did their top safeties Kyle Hamilton and Marcus Williams both in the top five for the Ravens excellent Grant delpit 22nd for the 22 I I think in the end they decided the Gap was bigger at at at safety for the Ravens than it was for corner for the Browns clearly the Browns have better corners but I think they decided the Ravens Corners were closer because Marlon Humphrey when he's healthy is as good as as Denzel Ward they're both excellent uh definitely the Browns have the edge at second and third corner but the Ravens have a pretty big Edge at safety their safeties are both very special and that's exactly what I thought and look you're splitting hairs yeah right like okay if if the Ravens woke up tomorrow and they found out that the brown secondary is theirs and we woke up tomorrow and found out that the Ravens was ours I think we'd both be fine with that right um you're right about the safeties probably overpowering the corners for the Browns here's my takeaway from all this where do the Steelers have an edge nowhere nowhere nowhere wait before we get to the Ste I want hear when was the last time that that's true true before we talk about the other ones Earl what do you think about the secondary in particular you're the one think you that chime in on that I mean I think everybody uh when when you look at it g l it out perfectly the Browns have three of the top 35 Corners in the entire NFL they have one of the top 30 safeties in the entire NFL what Baltimore has at safety is absolutely crazy uh how much G reminds me a little bit of Shawn Taylor the way he's built the way that he plays G we we know you know what they got in Williams as well so I mean I would give the Ed to the Browns of course I'm a bit biased but I mean either way I can see it going either way to be totally honest with you you know the crazy part about it is if you check out PFF I talk about this a little bit uh in in the episode of the ultimate Browns coming up today Ronney Hickman is actually you take a look he he only played a certain amount of snaps but he's rated higher I remember you told us that earlier he's rated higher than Grant delpit and Juan Thornhill that is correct that's crazy which is Wild by the way all right that I mean that doesn't really make any sense delpit I don't know I feel like delpit's uh by far the Brown's best safety but let let me throw this idea out there to you Pete and see what you think I would just make the case that um yes I I tend to agree with all of their uh takes a little bit here that obviously um um the Ravens safety room or at least their top two safeties are special right and uh much are and are better than the Browns although I do think delpit is a rising star uh although I think it's probably more important in the NFL to have better Corners than safeties um so I would say that the bigger deal to me and and you know based on how they're ranking this they aren't taking this into account it's just based on Raw ranking and who's who ends up higher I think the defensively you want to have as few weaknesses as possible you are you don't need to have stars everywhere but you need to not have you need to not have holes because ultimately the opponent will find you and get you you know take advantage um so in that sense I would take the Browns over the Ravens because I I grant that this the Ravens have better safeties but the Browns safeties aren't a whole ju Thorne Hill is a safety Grant delpit is you know a a good safety who's just coming off a pro bow year um and they have obviously depth and again as I keep saying I don't think PFF really takes into account all that much with depth but um they have the corners to go the whole way the top three are good but they also have other Corners that can do that the Ravens have Marlon Humphrey who's very very good when he's healthy and they have they just drafted the kid out of Clemson Wiggins and if he's good so be it but like Arthur Mallette and some of these other guys are not like if you're the Browns you are trying to Target these people and exploit them and that is ultimately the problem U and why I would take the Browns over them but like the Ravens win sort of on P star power uh Marcus Williams is a good safety uh Kyle you know Kyle Hamilton is a is a star uh Marlon Humphrey is arguably a star I think when you have guys that many guys that are on sort of that level okay um and I can sort of see it like maybe that's your preference But ultimately I would take the more more no holes on defense approach that the Browns have which is why part of the reason they're so good is it's you you don't you can point to different games and go well okay Greg Nome got picked on this game or you know linebackers got picked on this game whatever but ultimately like the Browns can consistently put out 11 guys who you don't sit there and go he does not belong on the football field and I think that's why part of the reason they've been so good um this past year and why I continue to believe they will be good this coming year uh I I think that's a great point I didn't even think about that into account and it's a great point that there is no holes there especially when you're you're accounting for you know the brown safety being deep with Rodney McLoud and whatnot as well uh there who's basically a third starter and you can even look at Hickman a little bit like that uh and to your point now so this is how Lads has uh their Corner Room going they have actually have Marlon Humphrey at their nickel which I don't think makes any sense but Brandon Stevens at their right cornerback and Nate Wiggins at left quarterback uh then Arthur Mallette they also drafted TJ Tampa right so they took a t couple higher draft picks TJ Tampa in the fourth round I think he was projecting to go a little higher than that uh didn't he fall in the draft pretty far some people had him uh quite a bit higher uh I think his athletic off the top of my head I think his athletic testing was crap um I think yeah for me he was a guy I had crossed off the list for the Browns so I didn't pay attention but I know there were people I think had him as like a top 50 guy um but you know not for me I yeah I just kind of thought looked at it like hey you know when teams are looking at uh you know Premier positions corner is considered a premier position while safety is not right depends on how you run your defense the Browns clearly put more value on safety than than other teams do but yeah I mean like just like where the money goes Corners get more money than than safeties do um so yeah I think there are teams that like if you you if you consistently with box safety you probably don't think that much of that position you're probably not willing to pay a whole lot of money for it unless you're the Seahawks and then you're willing to trade two first round picks for an edge safety um but like for most people it's the free and then you know if if you if you play really two safeties like the Browns do like Grant alpet um is so good because he can do everything that you would not want from safety he can play deep he can play a tight end he can play in the Box he can Blitz from the lot he like he's an excellent run Defender when you want him to like he if you put him in the Box he's like having an extra linebacker down there yeah um he just does all those things and that's what makes him valuable like you look at what he's done in matchups against Mark Andrews of the Baltimore Ravens and like you're like wow um he is a big time player in that regard so it's you know and then you know you signed him the contract I know jacked up and was pissed but like what has followed is like Xavier mckin got a huge payout compared and uh the dude with uh the Bucks Anton Winfield got a huge payout that makes delpit's contract looked relatively Pedestrian by by contrast it's I mean delpit's getting paid it's like12 million a year so it's a lot of money but nevertheless um there you know we've already seen people sort of already already go way above it so it's interesting um see see where it goes but like I I Juan Thornhill had a nightmare season last year with his calf I expect him to play a lot better I'm excited about what Ronnie Hickman could potentially be um that certainly adds to this I would love to see a situation where the Browns feel so good that they can have Ronnie Hickman and and ju Thor Hill split the back end and have Grant delpit be essentially like a joker type player whether it's coming to tight end blitzing operating as a linebacker whatever um that is very interesting to me I I'm curious to see if we'll ever get there but you know time will tell it's very interesting uh I believe if I recall correctly the Browns drafted delpit and then right after that wasn't the safety you just named from Tampa drafted directly after him I don't I want to say Antoine Winfield was gone before uh the bronze pick Delp it um but I could be wrong the one I'm still bitter about Is 2020 2019 when uh legendary GM John dorsy selected greedy Williams over ju Thornhill who I was pounding the table for uh at that point but I'm fairly sure Antoine Winfield was gone in like the 30s really I could be wrong I could have sworn they went it was like delpit Winfield let me check I was pounding the table for delpit too so yeah I see I was I was rooting for Winfield but I'm glad we got Del it now I actually like him better but uh either way uh what year was that let's see here 20 uh that was 20 that was 2020 I yeah 2020 second round right uhhuh let's see here [Music] so Browns had the pick at yeah so Browns had pick 44 and took Grant delpit out of LSU the Tampa Bay had 45 and took Winfield Jr um so in interesting that they went right there next to each other uh they both got extension so you know um and you know pick your poison there I guess interesting second round as we look back at that t Higgins at 33 Michael Pitman at 34 DeAndre Swift at 35 mcken Dugger other safeties in the same round huh okay Trayvon Diggs at 51 jayen Herz at 53 pretty wild second round right there all right anyways back to the show here I don't know what you guys think and maybe I'm a little biased but I would have the Bengals quarterback room over the Raven quarterback room even though Lamar had a better year last year I would take Joe burrow over Lamar I think most teams would I don't even think they're looking at it as the room I just think they're looking at it stting sure but even but even if it is the room the Bengals backup is way better than the Ravens backup well no if you're going room you got to go back yeah but like I I if you ask 32 teams who'd you rather have Lamar or burrow I bet most teams would take bur I would take bur even though Lamar MVP coming off the two time MVP and if you had him for the regular season I think there's a lot of people that would take bur I think they would say you know if I got one game to play play Give me give me burrow you know yeah okay do you agree with which part burrow versus Lamar yeah I would take Lamar um and it's because of the injuries and and which is funny because like the best quarterback in this division between those two is always determined by who's been healthier I am way more worried about burrow longterm um I mean I think on some level you can argue that there is a like there is a natural Endo for Lamar Jackson because of the way he plays that that style sort of has a doesn't lend itself play until you're 35 but I don't think Joe burrow is gonna make that either like I his injuries are no joke like the doctor is the one like the doctor is the one who's worried about the RIS the guy who did it is worried about the like these are like that's the part that worries me yeah um so that's that's sort of where like I I give Lamar The Edge he does have the two MVPs like but having said that Joe burrow if he's healthy for 17 games or whatever like they're in the conversation because he's that good but like Lamar Jackson um can play like crap and in one fcet the game one fastet at the game and then still make it work um he's just just insanely talented but yeah I mean like at this point I think before burrow just started piling up the injuries PR and again the wrist is the one that like strugling um I would have given him the nod but like I I don't have confidence I like I remember arguing that you know the that the Bengals should have taken P Su because I you know I looked at it and was basically saying don't let don't let burrow end up like Greg Cook don't let bro end up like Carson Palmer and yeah we're in danger of seeing that happen not great cook he's obviously surpassed that but um yeah but Carson Palmer yeah like that is a re that that is a real fear that that burrow suffered the season ending injury in a year where the entire offensive line played the whole year um that's of concern to me he's playing the piano to strengthen his risk did you did you see that report uh that's interesting I hadn't I just I I I I I had seen him talk about how he's put on like 15 pounds of muscle and and maybe that's um helpful but it's not really what's getting him um no so we'll see I mean like you know from a purely competitive angle of it I'm sort of like well that's a shame um but from a more uh more antiseptic version you know I want to see more great players so it's a shame but like this is clearly this is a problem yeah uh I thought that was interesting the taking piano lessons to strengthen the wrist all right let's uh continue here I Burl I thought you were saying for the regular season BR and then for the playoff bur's had more playoff success he hasn't won two MVPs but he has taken his team to a Super Bowl I am fascinated to see who is Joe burrow this year who is he well I mean the thing with burrow is when he's been healthy he's been great I mean that's it but he's had the injuries but Lamar's had injuries too he just didn't have it last year right yeah you know I mean he could have a bounceback MVP season this year Joe burrow he's he's that kind of he's and I believe him how long is our window as long as I'm here yeah he's that good Mike can you throw that graphic back up I know we was talking about the starting secondary but now as we're having this conversation I'm starting to think a little bit deeper I will go with the Browns you know we talking about the starters but we we talked a lot about how cam Mitchell played as a rookie and we believe that he's good enough to have an impact this year we know what we have uh at safety behind Thornhill when it comes to guys like DeAnthony Bell and Ronnie Hickman and so when I just look at the depth overall of all the Cleveland Browns DBS anytime we've seen these dudes on the football field last season they were highly highly productive were and so like it's it's it goes deeper than just MJ Denzel and and Greg Nome or or Grant delin and Thornhill you know when Gods got hurt and we still got Rodney McLoud who who's a former Super Bowl champion and who's who's a huge significant voice you know in that secondary room so I would you know definitely give the edge to to the Cleveland Browns when it comes to the second overall not just the starters that's a good point um you look at the the level of depth you mentioned McLoud like it's really close yeah I don't have a problem with it one way or another but it's it's very very close I mean we definitely have the better group of corners and I think that they have an edge at safety I don't think it's significant I don't think it's as significant as our Edge at corner we go deep at corner like if if an opponent split out four wide the Browns ain't pressed no you know what I mean they can match up manto man four wide with anybody and I think that's a great problem to have in today's NFL do they have the best offensive line are we buying that uh um cuz that was I the Ravens lost two starters on their offensive line the Steelers offensive line has not been very good the Bengals offensive line was improved last year and they've added two key pieces this year but on paper right now I'd probably take the Browns yes I like our depth too at offensive line we showed it last year yeah I think there a question about defensive line are they better than the steers on the def I I wondered about that too I mean you got miles and and and TJ kind of cancel each other out you know us you know they got a better cam hayward's better than any of our dtack he's the best second yeah PFF loves the Darius Smith they do yeah they got him rated very high like I think he's like top 13 top 12 excuse me yeah yeah he they got him rated his pass rush grade is crazy um so that kind of and then here's another guy that they love he doesn't he's not listed on um on the death chart as like one two he's actually listed third but when you look at Maurice Hurst they have him rated as like a a a 101 type guy when it comes to just because his pass rush ability um they got him rated the highest def interior defensive lineman for the for the Browns they got a lot of guys that yeah PFF likes um and I think the browns offensive line has a lot of upside I think they like it's depending on Dean Jones um they obviously you know what the two Center going to do poaches is solid um the only weak link I would look at is probably Jed Wills but he played a little bit better at the end uh he still needs to step it up but I would probably Edge the browns offensive line I think the Bengals did an excellent job of you know doing their due diligence to make sure that they protect their franchise quarterback Joe burrow I've seen them make improvements on their offensive line over the last couple years so they clearly understand the assignment they know what type of time it is but when it comes to the Cleveland Browns I love the versatility Andrew Barry loves guys that can play multiple positions and we have three or four guys on this team that can play guard tackle or even slide over the center if they absolutely have to and when you have versatility youth mixed in with the experience as well I got to give the a to the Cleveland Browns you know you all talked about the defensive line you were talking about the interior tackles you mentioned Mo Hurst we forget that we signed Quinton Jefferson and I think he's not even listed as a starter and this is a dude who's been phenomenal throughout his entire career you know as an interior rusher and now here he is back playing in a 4-3 system with Miles Garrett on the outside he going to get a chance to eat and if you look at all the position groups I mean you could make an argument that the Browns could at least be second in almost every group I mean you know I don't know about linebacker but the way J played last year he makes up for other weaknesses there they're not going to be second quarterback though except a quarterback yeah quarterback's the only position yeah but running back if it was interesting uh Pete I don't know if you saw this but the PFF rankings at linebacker for the NFL had the Browns in like the top 10 uh I don't know what's that eighth eighth yeah uh one don't spend money on linebackers because you don't need to uh because the Bengals have spent a whole lot lot more money and I think they were like 14th yeah um but like again I it's a correlative position the Browns linebackers are really good Jordan Hicks has just been a very very good Pro J's yeah very talented um but their defensive line allows them to be like at the be at their best like they elevate that group so yeah I mean like that's the thing you get you you keep taking swings at those type of position obviously J was a big investment as a second round pick and obviously he's extended which I hope he is um that's gonna be a a sizable chunk of money but like Jordan Hicks is a perfectly capable linebacker and he's gonna make like $4.5 million this year uh they'll be in great shape at that spot um but I believe that was the high other than the raven the Ravens were the top understandably with Roan Smith is very very good um they were in a good spot which is which you want um the brown the Bengals offensive line conversation yeah ah the guy that never gets brought up with the Bengals Cordell Volson and maybe in this next year he's ready to sort of take another big leap do you know what his pass rush grade against the Los Angeles Rams was uh week three this past year no idea zero Z zero five pressures in that game three sacks or H one sack uh he had a 27.4 pass prot pass block rate against the Browns week one like he's all he's not good and Grant he he was I think he's gonna be in his third year and he's been playing there since he was a rookie so maybe that you know this is typically the time when those guys are G to step up but like they have a real weakness is it's at a very bad spot um to be a interior player who gives up on the season 38 pressures and five sacks uh with your franchise quarterback who's almost always in gun um yeah so yes the Browns do have a better offensive line although I think the the Gap has narrowed a little bit um but yes the Ravens are replacing three starters the Steelers are are are probably G start two rookies and have a seconde guy move from right to left tackle um I would not surprise me if the Steelers sort of have some bumps and bumps along the way but if those guys are are good then suddenly those Steelers offensive line could really Vault their way up and be super young and effective for a long time um we got to see what's going to happen with the tackle situation with the Browns if Jack Concklin is Jack Conlin again does that change the the dynamic with dwan Jones if not can jedrick Wills be as good as he was as a rookie then LeBron's are in good shape with those other guys being healthy like yes the Browns have a the best offensive line but I think in it's largely by default at this point the two guards are obviously carrying this thing and then if Jack Conlin's back then like suddenly it feels a whole lot better um to have that but like the rest of the rest of the division is either in flux or they're the Bengals yeah it's interesting uh what do you think about their thoughts on I mean they brought up here we close this out here make sure you stick around to watch uh garage beers with Nathan zura up next but what do you think about their thoughts on the Steelers uh defensive line um and uh bringing up Hayward as the second best uh I guess after Garrett and um you know what I'm talking about why yeah look Cameron Hayward is coming off the worst season of his career injuries and all everything else he's GNA be in the hall of fame um if he plays if he can get back to being cam Hayward he's phenomenal has been a giant thorn in the side of the Browns outside of the 2020 playoff game where Michael Dunn used his one superpower of being able to become an all World guard for one game and be out for four and took his lunch money um but beyond that like I have no problem with that uh and and Alex heith is also very very good you've got Benton who's very very interesting uh was impressive as a rookie could be very good they've ALS and Larry oen jobi still there who's fine they've also got a lot of Jags um the like I think they still have like Isaiah louder milk or some of these guys like that uh I'm curious to see what happens with Nate uh Nate herbig in his second year as that pure speed rusher he was had a nice uh didn't play a ton of snaps but had a nice rookie year in terms of being able to produce a surge like I think if you're just like looking at from The Edge standpoint I would take the Browns because I would take okaro over uh herbig and I would also take Wright and uh Maguire over what they have but it's close defensive tackle it's like it's it's challenging because cam Hayward is sort of up here Keo Benton might be getting up there and then like everybody else is sort of lower where the Bron just to have a more solid throwout uh with their group what about the Ravens defense of line they I guess you know I guess a dafe OA they have here is a uh outside linebacker yeah so he in the three four or whatever but Michael Pierce Justin matab obviously is amazing and and then brri Washington Brent Urban he's been there forever he he was drafted in 14 Travis Jones uh he strikes because maybe the kind of guy the Browns would need to play nose or something like that but uh Rashad nicholis is either guy their defensive tackle position is really good their Edge is a giant question mark yeah um adaf o has been good in terms of generating pressures it just never seems to work out for sacks for him yeah but like after that Kyle vanoi Kyle vanoi had a good year for them last year I we'll see if he's able to retain it and and keep up that level of of uh pressure but like David ajabo who they took who was injured has done nothing but then get hurt again like y so like they are really hurting in terms of that edge position they obviously lose to je je Jevan Clowny who takes the bag and goes back to Carolina on The Temper Temper tax um and not having Mike McDonald raises questions about how good that group's goingon to be or how they're going to sort of make that work I was blown away by how good the Ravens were with largely you know taking the Browns approach with defensive tackle and just throwing Edge pieces together and getting it to work I don't know if that's going to work again maybe OA can take another step forward maybe ajabo can stay healthy and he can uh give them a boost but it's a major question mark for them and I think it's G to be a spot where teams look to exploit them uh but they're they're tough up the middle I mean their whole defense is the spine defensive tackle to ran Smith at L inside linebacker and Trenton Thompson's at inside linebacker and they've and then behind them they've got Kyle Hamilton and uh Marcus Williams like that's that's what makes that Defense work they've got to prove that they've got everything else obviously they've tried to make efforts to improve the corner spot but like yeah edges is Edge is a question mark yeah um they drafted uh they went back to the uh the the well at uh Penn State right uh and drafted Adisa Isaac he's from Penn State right I believe yep another guy who just runs really fast and tries to turn the corner uh good hustle player again we'll see if they can get something out of I mean there is there are play to be had doing that but um I think there's a lot of question marks with him if he can develop then then maybe he can be something but yeah I think um the Ravens are trying to combat a lot of losses losses and you know that's a position where maybe they don't have enough maybe they look to make a trade somewhere and try to really get you know they have a tendency to like bring in assumingly miraculously bring a impact player in from nowhere so that may be the move for them yeah uh they yeah they seem to be uh involved in the latest version or latest iterations of free agency uh every year uh adding to their roster late all right so that's going to be it for us tonight here on the react hope you enjoyed the show uh good stuff breaking down uh the roster as we are just two weeks out as uh Pete pointed out earlier listen make sure you stick around Nathan ziger on garage beers next will surely be entertaining hit the like button hit subscribe do the same thing when they go live here in about five minutes uh it's a jam-pack tonight here uh pack night here on the obr streaming network uh any parting words Pete before we get out of here just check out the content that we've got up there and then next week I'm planning on starting doing something that these guys we're doing but I plan to do the whole division uh at every position group and ranking them um so we'll see how that shakes out uh but like that is me my attempt to sort of provide further Clarity on how to sort of handicap this Division and where I think people are sort of really misevaluated where teams have are good uh in this division but well so there's there's something to look forward to I suppose yeah absolutely something to look forward to keep it locked at the obr for Content wall toall covering everything uh as we get closer to the Green Brier uh and uh shows here uh every night so uh stay tuned for garage beers for everybody at the obr uh for Pete Smith my name is Brad Ward this has been another edition of the react we are out