Chained episode 4 - Mimic & F Murray Abraham | Dark Matters / Jacked in collaboration podcast

[Music] hi everybody Welcome to episode four of Chained and hello Jack hello everybody and welcome to episode four of Chained and hello Jack why you doing that Jack why you doing that Jack oh I see what you're doing I see what you're doing jack is this a clue about the film that we're watching today yes uh yeah a little hint into The Pick of this week for episode four of chain Carl I'll let you do the honors yeah so so continuing our chain which is now a few links strong and a couple of interesting things that came out of this one but uh but yet we are in episode four and my pick coming off the back of Last Action Hero uh from episode three was to pick F Murray Abraham uh who played the sort of turncoat CIA guy and uh and basically we are going with guer d Tomo's uh American debut uh which is mimic so yeah very excited to be talking about this one like we said last episode it's uh yeah it's another 990s film and yeah I think I think we're gonna have a good chat on this one Jack I'm very excited about this one because I'd only seen it once so like I kind of went into it with uh fresh eyes let's go with that fresh yeah um because I had seen so long so it was kind like a lot of it I couldn't even remember it hadn't made a last of impact but my God rewatching it had a good time so I'm looking forward to speaking about it for sure fantastic yeah so uh so welcome hopefully we've uh you know we're welcoming some new listeners and viewers today so uh you know thanks for for joining if you are unfamiliar with chains so we are linking actors and movies together through shared uh shared actors so we're four four links deep and at the end of this episode Jack will surprise me with his pick and his actor and that's always one of my favorite bits so really looking forward to that and we're going to start with a little bit first of what we've been watching and then we're going to go into our review of mimic and uh yeah then then we will wrap up with a bit of a discussion about F Murray Abraham uh it was an interesting interesting film but but a great actor and lot to say Soh so yeah we we'll crack on with that and so I think let's get going Jack what do you reckon absolutely let's do some housekeeping and find out what I absolutely love what you've been watching recently so uh my first uh pick this time is uh one that I was so annoyed I missed in the cinema last year but finally got around to seeing it and actually got to see it on the biggest TV of uh that I know someone owns which was perfect because I got to see John Wick four and uh been I felt like a long time coming because uh I I did really want to go and see it I think the three-hour running time put me off going to the cinema but I'm actually massively regretting it now uh you seen it yeah oh yeah and I and I went to I was one of the lucky ones that went to see it in the cinema in IMAX no doubt um and uh right off the bat uh I think me and my friend uh both like literally almost like [ __ ] ourselves as soon as the movie starts and that fist hits the punch bag surround sound in IMAX my God uh so yeah U very glad that you've seen it good that you didn't see it in IMAX but what did you think yeah M I mean it was it was exactly kind of what I wanted from the franchise a franchise that frankly you know started with me watching I think the first one on a plane um because it was just an action movie you know to becoming one of the I think one of the best franchises of recent years I mean it's a series that has absolutely no right to be just as epic and as kind of World building and and just cinematically just such an achievement um all the same director same writers uh you know they they've just built this incredible thing out of nothing in a world of you know marvel and and and Terminator sequels and everything else it's it's just amazing to have seen a franchise that has blossomed in the last few years you can basically say is a you know a something from the last decade and uh yeah brilliant film uh absolutely loved it it's insane on a Action level like there are every time I see one of those films you think I've seen it all now like I can't understand how they can top it but they they just somehow manage it and and the action scenes are so so imaginative so incredibly well choreographed just Bonkers at this point I mean it's it stopped around halfway through the second film being realistic in any way you know it's it's I totally agree it's it's funny because the one of the reasons I loved the first one so much and when you think of how long ago the first one was literally all it was was a guy guy loses his dog and goes on a rampage and he just doesn't stop but it's very realistic he just goes for head shots he doesn't mess about he doesn't like knock out any witticisms he's just driven and I thought that's why I loved this I mean that's why I like the first one but like you say the it just keeps getting more and more ridiculous but he still seems to hold the same sensibilities he just goes for head shots he only ever shoots someone outside the head to expose someone to get a head shot but like you say the choreography in that movie I think someone um someone had a criticism about it saying that they didn't like the dance scene it was ridiculous that no one in that club noticed this big epic fight happening and I was like that's not why it was done that way it was shot that way because it just looks absolutely gorgeous while they're fighting and everyone's dancing around so you've kind of gotta re but yeah I'm rambling but that's exactly why I love the movie it's the most epic one yet it's um they they've also done an incredible thing of bringing in lots of action actors who have a point to prove or kind of maybe never quite been appreciated enough and uh and you know unlike The Expendables or something which just just feels tired like this just feels so so modern but in such a beautiful way that the the production design and the lighting are some of the best I've seen in any movies in recent memory the um I remember this the finale of part three where they were fighting um in the in the Continental where they had all liquid monitors and all that sort of stuff it carries on with that Vibe like you say things like the German nightclub scene there's um you know there's that scene in the Asaka Hotel like every location has Fantastic look um beautifully lit beautifully shot um you see everything the choreography is is just world class and yeah and then and then you bring in on top of that you know you bring in people like Donny Yen and Scott Atkins I'm a huge like just for the record like to see Scott Atkins get a moment of of quality in a massive movie uh was a great one for me because like he's a he's a he's a mid hero and and Bas and you know so he was he was fantastic and and that fight in the club you know the even even down to the fact that because he's such a good martial artist but he carried off like being a kind of large man you know yeah and uh yeah just everything about it but even starting off like you said there was that kind of Epic build at the beginning and you get suddenly you get the scene it's almost like out Lawrence of Arabia and it's so sweeping and they they just knew exactly what they were doing like it's almost like you feel that they probably storyboarded like every frame of that movie absolutely it's it it is what and it like you say it has no right to be as good as it is because um I'm someone that's grown tired of movies that just Overkill franchise Fast and the Furious Mission possible just getting the seea at this point but I all I'll always have time for John Wick and I'm I think a lot of that's credited to K Reeves to be honest the type of reputation he's built off screen as well as on just a really nice guy and just totally commits and I've just got so much time for that man I'll follow him anyway yeah he's just fantastic and I mean you know when you look back at his action career arguably he's he's top top three you know what I mean like when you look going back to you know Point Break one of my favorite action films you know Matrix this the guy has smashed out some incredible action films um but never really is seen in that kind of light I feel you know um yeah considering the guy's pushing what 60 now I mean you know the moves and that he's doing in the in these films um it was uh yeah it wrapped up incredibly well I thought so yeah fantastic absolutely loved it amazing time if you've loved the first Fe three you know watch it because you're certainly not going to be disappointed um the only the only regret I've got is I haven't watched it with my dad who is a massive John Wick fan as well so when he's over next I am 100% watching that one awesome stuff that's class well I guess uh well uh I'm sort of well I was going to say it's sort of the same as yourself and I've been watching old old movies but um I've just been on an absolute rewatching binge this month so I haven't really watched anything new I've just been absolutely ke in movies that I absolutely love and one movie that I haven't seen in a while but I always remember it being a good time um so I knew uh that it wasn't going to disappoint on Disney Plus at the moment Broken Arrow John Woo's Broken Arrow with John tral Christian Slater and how's that hold up because I I saw that in the cinema and I don't think I've seen it since it's it's it it holds up and it doesn't it's still a very good time but my God there's certain things that are just thrown it's very woo uh but there's certain things just thrown in there like John dter is the leading Chris it's very sort of these guys are hot now so because John TR had the Resurgence with P fiction so he was a big name again so they just threw these people in and he plays he he plays it very similar to funnny enough another John W film how he plays his version of Nick Cage and face off very sociopathic don't know what you're doing do you this is out of control I must Hush Hush stop your veicle but one of the things that's so funny like it was probably seen as really cool at the time but every scene he's just lighting a new cigarette but he makes a point that he's got a cigarette blow smoking people's face and everyone's like he's a pilot and he goes into the he's Captain's office and he's like you can't smoke in here he's like oh sorry forg got a had it sort of thing stubs out his hands like they makes such a point like look at me I'm smoke look how cool I am it's just that that reminds me actually yeah because I remember at the time anybody I knew who smoked thought he was the coolest man alive like yeah absolutely he does he does somehow he's one of these people that except looks exceptionally cool with a cigarette I mean should been should been French aviators on AV Ray bands on and yeah he's just constantly smoking in that movie and it's just like right on like yep I get it it's very of its time for that reason Christian Slater is a leading man it's one of those moves like you could have kind of cast anyone but uh it's such a good story like the sort of like broken arrows the terminology they use when a n goes missing and then uh he's like I don't know what concerns me more the fact we've lost one or the fact that it happens so often they' got a name for it so but very good time uh like I said it's John Woo the actions great the on liners are great the John Travolta biting it in the end uh by one of the one of the nuclear missiles going straight into him absolutely tremendous it's got everything yeah he's came out I i' very shortly before that discovered John Woo I'd watch the Killer and I think I'd watch hard boils and so the idea that he was coming to America was just like the most exciting thing and and I feel like I maybe face off maybe face off was his like American kind of classic but I feel like his stuff never quite lived up to what he'd done in you know in Hong Kong but I do remember having a really good time with that and I think to be honest that like I'm I'm due a a John Woo career get involved in Brook and arrow absolutely you won't be disappointed it's a good time if nothing else it's a fun time I was also really big fan of Christian Slater at that time I think that was when Christian Slater was just that his kind of peak you know true r you know he really was absolutely smashing it at that point and uh yeah yeah it was good um good memories of that and I think uh yeah it's it's a shame that John W was kind of he sort of disappeared for a very long time he did Red Cliff and then he didn't do anything for a long time and he did you see that one that came out on Netflix like at Christmas I I haven't seen it I didn't even realize there was a John W film on Netflix until a friend was telling me no no I haven't seen it so so it's like a a Christmas action movie I can't remember it's called but but it's yeah there's um but there's some action movie out on Netflix I mean you know this is this going back to our gripes about streaming you know a John Woo movie has just landed and literally but I think he's got like a Silent Assassin kind of thing in it right um yeah yeah John W very much missed I wish he'd just do more because the guy is uh bloody brilliant and I mean without him to be honest it probably wouldn't be John Wick If we're honest yeah no absolutely he's definitely uh I think in broken arog there's so many things that were known as W trademarks that I didn't even realize because obviously you've got the doves there's always a moment where doves just have to fly but like little things like two guns at the same time like jumping through the edge like things and it's just like but they're just in Broken Arrow because the're it's not because this is an action movie it's because it's a director trademark it's a w trademark it's like [ __ ] like man this guy has had so much influence on action Cinema is broken ARA the one where he like he's got one gun and he kicks like a floorboard or something and a six shooter pops up in his hand and then he jumps through the air shooting his he's got two different guns and he's running jumping through the end shooting but yeah it's will absolutely brilliant I mean and the thing is one of the other woo isms was was the two bad guy a good guy bad guy facing off very closely shooting each other never hitting even though they can kill everybody else on the planet but they can't hit each other um and in John Woo 4 sorry John Wick John Woo 4 John Wick for there was there was literally a scene like that during that um there's a scene at the the the sh sh you know Triumph where where they were just shooting over cars and they're shooting at each other and it's like you know how badass John Wick is and yet he's not hitting this other guy and the other guy's not hitting him and that I literally at the moment thought oh that's such a John Woo little nod you know yeah he's had a huge impact on on action Cinema great great shout I I really I hadn't thought about that film in years yeah that would be that beol it's on Disney plus anyone anyone listening I can't imagine they're going to be taking it off anytime soon because that's not how Disney plus operates but anyone that's got it that hasn't seen it or even if you have seen it get involved it's a fun time what else have you been watching Carl so my my my second uh final choice for this for this episode is um I I watched um a film on talking on Netflix funny enough uh it was on Netflix and I'd not heard of it before a friend recommended it um said you know we we were um we were just going right let's let's watch a kind of post-apocalyptic film um you with Fallout coming out and that's stuff and postapocalypse is I mean is is like my genre possibly my favorite genre you know I I love I love stuff in that genre um and he picked a film i' never even heard of from 2022 called veser um have you seen veser I have not invester tell me more yeah so it's it's a British uh super low budget post-apocalyptic film and it's it's basically uh a bit like it comes across a bit like a ya adaptation but I don't think it is based on book I think it is an original story I'm looked that deeply um but the the idea is it follows this um world where uh kind of ties in actually funny enough with what we're talking about in mimik but um a world where people have genetically modified uh the ecosystem and it goes horribly horribly wrong and so basically it always you reach this classic sort of setup where you've got the rich are living in citadels uh and the poor are living out in the countryside farming but at constant Danger from this world around them now you imagine kind of the world being a bit like Pandora on a super low budget but kind of done incredibly well like um so so you know how in like Avatar everything's trying to kill them like you know the world is dangerous and and kind of beautiful at the same time this is very very similar sort of setup and you get this character called Vesper uh she's a 13year old girl who happens to be like a bit of a science buffin um lives with her dad who was incredibly sick um but trying to find a kind of cure for the seeds that they use and and kind of that could potentially have a KnockOn effect for the ecosystem around them um and that's kind of the setup and then it's it's kind of a bit of a classic uh post-apocalypse film you've got like a community run by a kind of tyrant played by Eddie maren who's her uncle um he's a skey skis I love I love skey Eddie Marsen like he's a great actor he can do nice and horrible but when he's horrible I really like is like a real [ __ ] bag you know um and uh yeah so sort of the setup isn't like doesn't you probably think from that that doesn't sound massively original but what really made it stand out and really blew me away was um the production designer it's just just incredible it it's um it's only five million I think but they it's like every penny is on the screen um other than Eddie Maron there's no other famous people in it um mostly sort of bit part actors and things like that and all British cast um um but it's it's got an incredible original sort of look and this really nice almost cronenburg kind of fleshy mixed with technology feel so the coolest thing in it is her dad is uh really really sick and he's bedridden but they've got the technology obviously before the world failed um to have these kind of remote flying drones it looks a bit like a crash helmet and it just flies around it's got a smiley face drawn on it but it's her dad and he flies around everywhere with her so she can talk to him but he can't do anything he's literally just a head basically just a floating crash helmet effectively but when when she has to fix him at some point in the film she delves in and it's just like a fleshy goo inside the helmet and I just thought they put so much effort into what could have just been like phoned in Cheapo British crappy film you know um it actually ended up really impressing me um the lead actress um is a is a girl called Raphael Chapman I think it's only sort of 145 at the time um just another in this kind of generation of incredible British actors coming through um you know I'd never seen her before um but she's uh yeah outstanding um and I know um so Netflix came in for some criis because of damsel you know and they've done things like in NOA holes and these films where they've got these like strong independent you know young female leads and and I think a lot of the time you sort of feel it's it's a little um it's almost like yeah it's a little forced it's a little kind of you they're trying to be you know I I hate woke but yeah you know people accuse them of being a little bit woke a little bit you know this film had that potential to just be a a really bad like oh isn't she a brilliant science buffing you know 13y old um but she's just such a great character and there's this really lovely relationship with um that there's a kind of the whole story kicks off because there's a crash and there's a Survivor from the crash and their relationship and kind of what she learns to this person it's um it's just really well nicely done really nicely acted and it just um played incredibly straight it's almost utterly humorless this film you know there's and I know love that as well sometimes yeah I I mean I love a laugh but I just like a really Grim film you just a gritty not everything needs to have that Marvel bloody one Miners and yeah it just plays it R straight it's really really strong recommend for me I mean it's a sort of four four and a half i' loved it I think just as a a British host apocalyptic entry um very very good I would put it on a level with um girl with all the gifts which was another brilliant post-apocalyptic sort of British film you know um this isn't zombies it is uh where where can where can me or anyone else that hasn't seen this because it sounds amazing so I'm definitely going to get involved where can I where can I get involved yeah so it's um it's a Netflix original I think so yeah it's on Netflix they I think they they funded it or bought it it's one of the ones that they picked up yeah so awesome but yeah really good best for 2022 so yeah your second pick it's actually really funny it's uh it's uncanny how uh uh we both have been watching post-apocalyptic things as of late uh so i' like I say I've been on an absolute rewatching binge um so I actually watched rewatched because my partner hadn't seen it and I was like well you need to see it doomsday Neil Marshall's doomsday movie that I'm a huge fan of have you seen it yeah yeah I've got I've got it I've owned it for ages on DVD and I still haven't rewatched it and I think I still haven't seen it since Cinema i' probably had it about 20 years so um yeah how's it hold up I mean I'm I'm the exact same as you I remember loving it every inch of that movie when it came out just because I was a I was a horror child I grew up and I just let anything with go uh absolutely gravitated towards so that's why I loved it when it first came out but also because I love dog soldiers and The Descent and then he brought this and I was like well I'm going to love this as as well obviously um but it my God does it hold up it holds up so well um it's for anyone that hasn't seen it um it's about um sort of like an alternate UK well funny I say alternate but it's like a virus breaks out um and they actually end up closing the border between England and Scotland and it's just well it was an alterate England when it first came out but it is uncanny how this resembles Co when I was rewatching it when they closed the border between Scotland and England I was like [ __ ] like this virus is breaking out I was just like this is this is a bit weird and uh but they the find a potential cure in Scotland so they send this agent spy into retrieve the Cure sort of thing but everyone's descended into madness in Scotland goes into Glasgow like the resort of cannibalism and we're going to catch him and whatnot so she takes a squad and goes in there and has to put not going to spoil any more of the story but I'll say exactly what Vibes it has it's very it's a very much merg between sort of it's escape from La it's Mad Max it's Camelot all these things are in one movie um and funnily enough I actually recently uh spoke to director Neil Marshall who made tombs day and I picked his brain about it and he uh he gave me some really good Insight because it's a it's the same as yours it's a full British cast um and he said for that reason you wouldn't movies don't get made like they used to especially since streaming platforms it was like that movie wouldn't get made a day because there's no big names in it there's no big names in the leag cast or anything like that even the villain like Bob Hoskins is in it but very much as a side character so he said like for that reason and what that movie is and it's three different movies in one he said this movie just wouldn't get made today so for that reason I think he said it's like his most favorite of his babies sort of thing I got the impression from it because the Descent did so well that he immediately became like the director to watch you know and I would because i' watched the same as you dog and descent and then I got the impression because that done so well they basically said to him what would you like to make and he just went I want to make this film and I'm gonna put everything in it that I ever wanted to make just in case I never get to make another film I don't I don't know if he said anything about that but that's how it felt to me it was almost I do remember think it was teetering on being over stuffed like it was it was like pick a genre man but but at the same time it gave it a real it it's completely Bonkers I remember um isn't Shawn pery the cannibal leader or something and he's just got a completely unhinged performance or Shawn per is actually the one that uh he's not in it long um I forget that it's a Jordy actor who play I think who plays the cannibal leader um or Scottish actor I believe but Shawn pway actually gets eaten oh he's that's remember the guy just being because he's all like big feather coat and and War makeup yeah yeah I actually asked Neil as well because this is uh sh we got killed in dog soldiers as well said just quickly what have you got against Shan Perle because you're just it's horrendous you kill him off in every movie in horrendous ways but yeah no um it was it was very fun picking his brain about it because it's a movie that I absolutely loved and if anyone hasn't seen seen it for a like post-apocalyptic perspective but it's got British sensibilities and I think that's why it didn't do too well over the states because I watched it funny enough before Mad Max I got to the Mad Max party uh late later on so when I watched uh when I eventually got around to watching Mad Max the originals I was like huh it's like a less funny doomsday and like so I actually R doomsday higher um but it's because it didn't do too well this because they didn't get the dark humor they didn't get the British Sensibility so I think after like he was he was very disheartened because it was panned by critics especially over season yeah which was such a shame because I mean that you know British British action movies are in very short supply I've always thought something I wish we did more of but you're absolutely right you know somebody puts out an action movie from Britain it's like America shrugs you know America puts out an action movie and everybody's like so so I just think you know it's it's a shame unless it's got James Bond in it you can't you know you can't get a British action movie and even um yeah and I remember it had a cracking car chase kind of omage to the end really like exceptionally long kind of big epic sort of car chase doesn't it um is it R go to Hollywood as well to Frank he goes to Hollywood so it's just even even more like tremendous yeah oh oh Jack you've hit you've hit me with two Nostalgia bombs on this one I think I'm gonna have to check out both of those because um I actually I mean I own doomsday obviously if you want to yeah Neil Marshall talk more uh more than welcome we'll Chuck the links in in this episode as well feel free to check out me picking Neil Marshall's Brun yeah BR well yeah excellent well great let's just get straight into mimic I'm really excited to to talk about that so we'll just go to ad great and now we're back so Jack we are going to be talking about the fourth Link in the chain uh mimic and I think this is a surprise pick given given what you'd set up potentially for me at the last one I think you were a bit surprised by this one right so but hopefully like me um you felt that actually it was a really interesting revisit because I think that's why I picked it I wanted to I wanted to go back to this because I'm such a big Del Toro fan uh I wanted to see how it's how it's held up so yeah if yeah no thank I'm going to start by saying thank you because I only seen it once and the didn't it didn't have that much of an impact but it certainly did the second time round and like you say there's so many that you could have picked uh given Last Action Hero and it would have been movies that I definitely would have seen time and time again so it's it's nice to sort of refresh the old bre yeah absolutely and I think one of the reasons I wanted to go to and I'm sure this this will come up it was just to to look it from a perspective of who Del Toro has become and the kind of cultural presence he's become and and the fact that actually this was this was only his second film um and at that point he'd only done Kronos which great great movie but it's one of those cases where the 990s I guess foreign director makes good film gets shot at Hollywood you know and because of that there's a lot of potentially interesting stuff to talk about but I think it's fair to say it was a studio picture you know it was a 90s Studio picture and um but yeah when you look at then in the catalog of where it came I mean he didn't make another film for nearly four or five years after this but ever since he's been making like a movie every two two or three years you know so it's almost like style is all over this movie like gets his first like like you say first American but his even back then his style is all over this movie tremendous yeah going back with the knowledge of of kind of he is genuinely one of the modern aurs in that you can safely say yeah this is this is his movie it's got all his all his Hallmarks and we we'll get to that I'm sure I was looking up some uh some stats online basically uh it's got about a 65% on Rotten Tomato which sort of maybe later we can sort of see if that's uh that's fair and yeah was made on a budget of 30 million and only did 25 at the box office so this was uh yeah I mean the '90s notoriously a decade light on horror um this was also a light horror I would say so you know given given kind of some of the other stuff that that was to come after it and and certainly coming out of the 80s you know the Great Horror decade the 90s was uh not a the best one for that and I think this this was kind of very stereotypical for me of that um but yeah second film Del Soro you know a cast of of good character actors and well-known faces led by Mira Savino who was who was real hot stuff at the time I remember you know headlin in a number of films um at the time so um so yeah you've seen it once you said and I I never you know I didn't see this at Cinema I saw this when it came out on home release and I think maybe maybe I've watched it twice but it wouldn't have been for probably 20 years so so I guess we're both coming at this from the same perspective no absolutely um and just a brief overview it's very uh very of its time and I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way there's some things that made us smile it's a very 90s movie I think like you said coming out of the 80s 90s though doesn't get the credit it deserves I think the 90s didn't want to be the 80s so it did a lot of experimental uh movies especially when it came to horror and obviously you had the merge between practical effects and CGI as we moved into the naties but I'm going to touch on that more later but this is a very 90s movie um everyone in it's wearing like either a black sweater a three4 length black leather jacket just black that's what everyone's wearing it was the 90s after all and I think to be honest that marries so well with del Toro's um like dark dark style I think I think it just married beautifully um yes it was the 90s but it was like a happy coincidence that had ended up looking the way it did you know don't know what you think about that yeah 100% I mean it's uh it's got the Hallmarks of um horror at the time you know I mean funny enough you know we keep creating links back to other things we've said but um when we look at Alien 3 this this looked very much like Alien 3 like the lighting you know very very sort of similar lighting um and I think that just became the kind of style um during that period everything was quite quite sort of lots of uh it was the xfiles really I think it was the xfiles influence and everything you know when you look at this film there's lots of torch light in tunnels It's a combination of that and also you also had um David Fincher 7 which had only been out a couple years and that changed just the look of everything which I think we said in the Alien 3 episodes you know there's um he that film had such a huge impact on everything afterwards um that it all kind of looked a bit like seven but even within that kind of style there's undoubtedly this is a deloro film so tell everyone that's not in the not what is mimic actually about yeah so uh so mimic as I kind of referenced earlier when I was talking about Vesper um it's uh it's a genetic um you know a man playing God uh nightmare I would say that's it's one of the first of of that genre where um I think genan manipulation and DNA was such a Hot Topic in in the 90s that uh this kind of naturally came out of that it's it's humans playing God to stop uh an awful play uh that has hit the children um of New York uh and I think there's a risk that it's going to go sort of wider than that so basically U they discover right in the first few minutes there is a cockroach carrying infestation infection that basically infects children and it's uh very very lethal and so basically Paras scientists um concoct a solution to this which is to genetically modify um some insects cross their DNA and release them to kill all the Cockroaches and uh and you know the fail safe plan that obviously cannot fail in any way is that the Cockroach killers are there meant to die after six months and then problem solved no cockroaches no genetically modified insects and of course that's it and then nothing happens for the next two hours tremendous stuff obviously nothing can go wrong obviously nothing nothing still goes wrong and uh yeah so of course uh it all goes wrong and uh yeah we'll we'll sort of get get into some of that but um but yeah when they start discovering there are some crazy uh characters hiding out in sort of uh underbelly of New York uh it's it leads them on a on a chase which basically reveals that maybe hubis is coming back to bite them in the ass literally it's very very good description very good description it's uh I'm a person I'm a person that's like very much into um insect documentaries it's a weird thing that I'm in because I'm like not normally that kind of but uh yeah the insect document I'm I'm a very big fan of and I love that uh I don't know it didn't need to but there's these little moments where they really go into detail about talking about like insect anatomy and like sort of like the the queen and she's only got one husband who like has but those little moments so I was like invested straight away as soon as I saw these little deals about insects and there's uh without with a without SP obviously there's a moment where she I think dissects one of the bigger like crazier one cockroaches inter mentions are like it's got lungs sort of thing and then they could they didn't need to put it in but they did and I'm glad they did and it's like oh why it got lungs and then he jumps in he's like well like insects don't have lungs that's why the canoni gets so big and that's why these ones are big I'm like oh that was nice that was nice just throwing in that little sort of like oh that's why they're big well they've got lungs now so yeah but for me this movie I said that it's marries well with the director's style but rewatching it man this whole thing just looks like a comic book and I mean that in a very like admirable way like the alleyway scenes the way it's shot the whole thing it makes sense that he sort of leaned in the world of Blade and then eventually Hellboy but his style just but like it's got comic book written all over it um so yeah amazing concept and it looks absolutely tremendous so that was my initial thoughts as a whole anyway I feel like at the time it got kind of reviewed a little bit like oh it's just another generic you know um Studio horror film but but I think that actually retrospectively that's that was probably quite unfair on it because I think I think it has got a lot of style to it oh yeah it's just films more stylish in the 90s than I remember but um but I think it it's got a lot of directorial style on it um very early on you know he's he's a filmmaker that's incredibly visual always has been right from Kronos um you know every film he's ever made has been very heavily storyboarded he's a brilliant artist everyone knows that and and you know he he's such a good artist that he can just create those those story boards that look beautiful and it it yeah it's got some great imagery in it um it's not a perfect film in the sense that I think it's very flawed bit like Alien 3 style lot of Studio interference I feel on this one and you know if I had one big complaint about it it's the ending but um but I think you know I don't know if you're plan on talking about that but we'll uh we'll get to that in a bit but yeah overall I I really enjoyed it as a rewatch I thought it was uh it was great to come back to it's got a lot of good ideas um and if there's one thing there's one thing you can say one word that you would use for del Toro's entire career it's cre like his creature design is so brilliant in every film and he designs them himself you know that's the best like it's this isn't like some other person like he designs the look of all those and he's always had this interest hasn't he in in CD underbellies with grimy creatures and bugs just fit perfectly into that because they bug bug movies usually kind of um bug me out but but actually this one uh yeah I really love the concept of it I thought it was just is really great and really interesting monsters and it's it's a good sort of contrast there because you you normally find this like every now and again like Hollywood won't release like you'll get a very original movie that comes out of nowhere and then there's a similar movie that's released at the exact same time um and I don't mean similar on plot but it's just like little things and I think uh well funny enough this movie didn't get the credit it deserved when it came out like you say it's just another generic but what came out at the same time I so when I was rewatching it I was like ha it's just a hybrid cockroach Man villain and I was like uh like you know who did that better and straight away I thought Men In Black that came out the same year with a cockroach villain and it it's not in no way I'm not comparing the two at all because they're two completely different movies but I just thought that was funny how they both came out the same year and I don't know did that one go under the radar because men and black in some aspect is a bit horror especially the villain who was a cockroach and I just thought that was interesting because you generally find that yeah that that happens a lot in Hollywood doesn't it you can only imagine someone of Dimension was just like oh I hear Men In Black is going to have a cockroach man in it so what I'm guessing given the budget that Men In Black was probably in development way before this one was but uh but yeah you know it's I just think um yeah I just think it was really original I can't other than that I hadn't thought men black actually funny enough but but I can't think of anything else where that sort of hybrid human cockroach monster sort of thing has really a thing you know it's it's a really cool idea um it's done so well it's done so well well there's there's certain aspects in terms of originality that I have to have a go at I thought and I don't know if this is Studio interference they just thought well this has worked before let's do it again it was the relationship uh between um the leading lady and the child it was very sort of it worked in Aliens it's a very n relationship but my God there is no Chemistry Between that woman and that child like I think this is I forget the line that said at the end but there's a moment with the big heart going towards the child and she says something and she might have as well have said get away from her you [ __ ] like it's the exact same but it's done so badly you know what I mean I'm just like well I mean this is this is on the the list of my uh my my criticisms about this is uh that I would categorize under the categorize under the studio interference because yeah it it smacks it smacks of Studio interference and like I said earlier you know the the 90s was really bad for this in particular I think and it was like it was the beginning of that watered down horror it was the beginning of that kind of 15 horror you know that the kind of the 90s was was rif with the kind of bloodless garess um you know kind of horror that that you could take you know uh the teenagers would go to for dates you know it's it was that it's that sort of horror mimic I think kind of falls into that I I can't help but feel there's a few there's a few bits in it actually that were really quite squishy and and good and I I really like them and I feel like the deloro that we've seen since might have pushed things a little bit further had he able to but there was so many things in the film that just felt shoehorned in by Studio mandate I mean I hadn't really thought of the relationship with the kid I didn't even think of the woman and the kid as having a relationship if I'm honest I mean you saying about the new thing that's that's interesting point I was making I yeah see the final scene I think the very finale with the King bug or whatever it was that kind of had a bit of a Rippy f in it but but I think it was more the relationship with her and her husband it was a bit I don't know I found that hor relationship a bit wet and yeah just you know it was uh they hang the whole thing on this idea that she's uh you know she's pregnant but kind of it literally just gets dropped in like the last 10 seconds or whatever it's not relevant to anything um on that note though really funny because I watched this with my partner who hasn't seen it before and uh when she gets uh when she gets bit by the bug ridiculous like this FG box she gets given by the children she um she gets bitten by the bug and then later she gets a pregnancy test and it's positive and my partner looked at me went is she is she going to have a cockroach baby and I was like oh that would have been brilliant no that would been right very a fly very Cronenberg like a much I was like oh that's that but no no it's it's kind of got nothing to do with the rest of the story to be honest but there you [Music] go can cockroach baby yeah yeah it's like it's that it's it's basically that lazy character work you know and I think um it's yeah it's quite it's quite interesting I think if I've got one thing one thing that particularly kind of annoyed me is the fact that it takes its cake and eats it a little bit and that it wants to set up these characters as like I said the sort of hubris of man don't mess with nature how could we do such a thing Jurassic Park basically you know takes it takes the Jurassic Park kind of storyline but B gives them this super happy ending and they get absolutely there's nothing there's no negative that comes out of the fact that they accidentally released you know these human eating cockroach monsters into into the underbelly of New York like they it's such a wrap up and that's where I just felt like at that point deloro probably just went yeah sure guys whatever walked out the room you know because they there's no way the studio didn't change the ending that he had planned I don't know what he did have planned but there's no way his ending was everyone looks happily ever after and they all the Cockroaches yay the end was uh the ending was hilarious because I watched it from like a funny perspective cuz uh she comes out and obviously F Maro goes up and so tries to console her but like I I I sort of like imagined that he actually was hitting on here at that point because he grabs like he definitely didn't survive like he definitely didn't survive like nothing survive all right show like yeah no don't don't don't even bother trying to look for him like no one was he comes out wrapped in a five and Swank and it's like it looks like they found him pretty safe but and then he just looks up he's like damn damn like I was going to get out there but yeah well they had um I don't know if you felt the same thing but the when the kids looking down the stairs you see the kind of silhouette the person he actually says the line about the size 10 shoes black or whatever and yeah at that point I thought they were gonna go oh great one of the bugs has survived and then it just turns out to be a husband and I just thought that felt to me like they'd shot it to be the bug and then the studio just went no no sticking a shot where it's yeah yeah I know I completely agree because they did have the potential to be that way and I mean that leads me on my next Point like the kid like I'm I'm a very I don't like kids with gimmicks and horror movies at the best of times it's just annoying but this kid like a massive question that I have after this watching this movie is did did the wear shoes did the Cockroaches wear shoes because he talks about funny shoes throughout and I've never really looked at that I'm like that's a point did do they wear shoes because he constantly talks about these funny shoes yeah guess they did you know and they've got they got trench coats on right which you just hang over them I guess but the shoe yeah funny shoes funny shoes I'm like but I didn't really do the wet shoes I didn't even think about that but yeah no how do they how do they even put them on yeah that um I mean I suppose that I do like the setup of that I love the beginning I love um I love the way that like you know it goes straight into that scene of the priest you know he's running you think I mean immediately you know you're like oh priest poor guy oh but you know turns out it's quite a dark dark side to that character but it's like um I really lik that opening and him seeing it out the window it's um it's very off you know we keep we keep saying this Jack about links but I mean yet again with this is our second film in a row with kind of groing New York um yeah and uh you know it's uh it's basically the New York you know it was getting better at this time but it's when you live in the dark bits in New York you know horrible [ __ ] happens that's that's basically what these movies say and one of the things I really loved about this film was it delves into something I'm slightly fascinated by because there's been so many films and books and all sorts of stuff written about um but that kind of Underworld of of New York the the Labyrinth of the sewers you know always get the steam coming out of all the greats and everything but there's so many great filmsand train stations you know all that stuff that really ticked a big box me and I thought all of that looked really really cool and it kind of opens with that you know you delve almost straight into oh there's that world down there um that was a really good way to go in for it for me because that that gets me straight away I'm ined brilliant word there the the the Labyrinth of the underground it just it's exactly what we've been saying this whole time like he had his style even then he knew his path like watching this straight away like you know you're watching a Delta horror film and part of that is down to the under ground Subway scenes like the the acting I I'll go so fast to say the acting in certain bits isn't the best but one thing I absolutely loved was the set design and that Subway that they were trapped on as ridiculous as it might have been I absolutely loved how that whole thing looked and like you say the underground scenes in general yeah had um I mean it was very sort of similar kind of lighting you know that that he's used in lots of his films um just really he gives I think he always tends to have quite expansive sets like like he can go claustrophobic when he needs to but he can make a really big open space scary which is which is quite hard to do because obviously the hat to have some light coming in to see something and you've got that lovely kind of Sky it's almost like um The Glass isn't it that you know somehow is still letting ligh in you know they're under there and I i' that's one of the things that's always fascinating me about that side of New York is the idea that you could be in so much danger so close to people and there's that brilliant shot where Josh looks up and sees them walking overhead um and and you know that that he he plays on that brilliantly it's like they're in so much danger and nobody realizes it you're walking over you know death and destruction you know and it's uh and I think you know lots lots of films have kind of done that with that sort of New York anime but this one really felt um uh yeah very much like his style was already in place it's like the guy the guy emerged fully formed you know as a filmmaker it's it feel just amazing well I think I think it's a brilliant segue to be honest uh for discussing uh I I'll start positive and discuss my three top positives of the movie and it's exactly what you've said to be honest it's so I love that the vibe that I got from the gecko is that no shot was wasted and I think the producer one point even said like watching how Del Toro puts shots together it's like someone working out a mathematical equation and it very much comes across like even someone just sitting just talking to another the we shot the alleyway scene shooting down very much at a comic he screaming upwards the big Open Spaces like there is not one shot that's just like oh well we need that shot and or a Fluff shot like let's get that from several different angles during the conversation no no not at all every shot regardless of couple of movies downfalls which I'll get you just looks absolutely gorgeous and i' just like it's a very uh it's like white noise to the eyes I just very very pleasant to look at I mean what do you think on that point yeah yeah 100% And I think that that's why some of it has stayed with me even if it was only a few shots because I I remember at the time when it came out like you said there was a lot of there was a lot of just cheesy monster movie bloodless kind of horror movies coming out things like The Relic and you know lots lots of films of that period I didn't know who Delta horo was obviously I hadn't seen at Point um and but I remember watching it and thinking there was there was quite a lot of style the stuff that kind of frustrated me about it was not the film making it was definitely the the story choices and it definitely felt because of that you know it was in the hands of somebody who knew what they were doing and you don't always get that with those kind of movies in especially in the 90s you know a lot of horror just doesn't quite hit but it tonally it felt it felt really interesting like it just felt interesting it it had right up until maybe the third act yeah the third act it's um I was properly engaged with the story like what what is going on and it's creepy there's some you don't get a more Del Toro scene than when the kid randomly just decides to climb out of his window and go across the road into the church and hang out with bug men but that seen everything from like the man like mannequins or something that have got like the plastic sheeting and you've got the the people with the trench coats the in the shadows youve got all the light the Moonlight sort of streaming in and the kids walking around you got the click of the spoons it just was so similar to other great stuff that dor has done and um yeah it's an amazing looking film for a 30 million pound Studio picture you no I completely agree I think I was soed from the get-go um First Shot opens up and it's it's a stunning shot and it's one of those it's very kubric in that it's a very simplistic shot that has no reason no need to look as gorgeous as it does and it's when you first open up on all those hospital beds that shot all those hospital beds it's very like a very Catholic sort of Vibes and it's very Sy but the Symmetry and it's white and it's just sort of like it grabs your eyes straight away it's like pay attention the movie starting you know absolutely yeah fantastic shot and um it reminded me that actually that's another thing he's very very good at is um Corridor spaces like anything that's like got real depth and really long sort of um sets you know he he does that a lot it's almost like you could tick list all the kind of traits of Del Toro from moments in this in this film you know definitely no absolutely you might discount this one cuz it kind of just uh it's kind of like a 1.5 uh Point rather than my second thing that I loved about this movie but I think it deserves credit in its own right for me and you already said it before with the Moonlight and everything but it's very much as well as each shot looking gorgeous I think what deserves credit in its own right is the lighting in this movie The Darkness and the light it's just absolutely brilliant to watch and I first got a sense of that when you first see I we're calling them mimics your first mimic in the alleyway and it looks like it looks like a man it looks like a stalkerish man just standing in the alleyway and the reason it looks like a stalkerish man it's not because of CGI it's not because of anything like that it's because the the shadows in that scene and the light the little glat is being used to full his potential and that is a theme that runs throughout this movie um and like I say it is well shot but at the same time so much credit needs to go towards the lightning apartment you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah absolutely I mean that um it's just great when you see uh shots in Alleyway you know where you get that the shadow long Shadow it's just such a beautifully composed shot and that's that's the shot that I remember that's where the kids looking down isn't it and um and you you kind of it just it's just got a nice creepy atmosphere it's got a kind of you don't know what's going on I think that's that's why the third act for me is is so poor because basically it loses all that mystique and and kind yeah another kind of sieged alien Z whatever sort of movie you know and I think um it's yeah it's a shame that because those the human designs the first time I saw it I do remember just thinking like what the hell is going on like you didn't quite get it you know and I guess at that point genetic manipulation wasn't really a thing that everybody's like so familiar with these days it's just like yeah whatever you extra arms you be like yeah genetics but back then it was just like bloody bug men like yeah yeah yeah great and and I guess that brings me on to my third point the my third uh love for this movie and it's another one of the things that you say yourself the director does so well and it's like creatures or like Monsters and you've just said it there um which is brilliantly set up this point it's not just a monster movie it's so unsettling and it's so ahead of its time cuz it didn't belong in the 90s it's not like a normal monster movie to be honest like the scene that I love the most is when uh Jeremy northam's in uh putting the wires together it comes out and you see this horrible thing that looks like a man because it's obviously mimicking like a and then its face splits and that whole scene was done practically and it for that reason I was like this is aras's [ __ ] and it doesn't feel like a 90s horror it feels more like sort of like an Alex Garland sort of movie more than anything else so for that reason the creatures uh and I can't stress this enough the Practical versions of the creatures in the movie are so good and so Eerie so unsettling uh and it's thanks to obviously deloro and his Creations I mean yeah exactly I think that's the that's the strength not only is it the creature design it's the fact that he he always goes practical with those creatures where where possible you know and um I think he's he's one of the very best mixing CG and and practical but he um it's so you know you can't argue that you know that this using practical for those bugs gives them such a squishy reality that just wouldn't have worked if they were like a full C these days probably would go full CG you know and it's um he wouldn't but yeah in another filmmakers hands they have just gone oh kind of making CG bun people but but I think yeah I know where you're going with the with the CG but I think but but yeah he he's just so good at kind of bringing out that but they're just so interesting the designs like everything like it's the fact that it wasn't just one bug it's like two two two together or what or the kind wasn't it their is it their wings or is it two they're like two together isn't it yeah the the design like a shell kind of clicking together yeah looks like a cloaken but like then the drop the hole it mimics like because predat has like but look like butterflies to attract prey it's like these like we haven't seen them before like how have we never seen these before and it's like no we have we don't like what they're doing is mimicking like and I love that drop the the title drop they mimicking like so human beings and then like say that face split just when he's alongside him it just oh it just no h absolutely intended it like I felt it crawling inside of us that moment it was absolutely horrendous yeah yeah yeah that was that was a brilliant brilliant moment and again that's another I mean this just so many so many sort of checklist things for Del this but he's he loves you know it's like the vampires in Blade 2 you know with the opening faces you know this has got the kind of face that opens up he loves he loves kind of stuff like parting kind of yeah you know things that have like more limb it feels like they got more limbs than they should have like when all the arms come out you know um wings and all that sort of stuff you know he's he loves making those kind of those kind of creature designs they don't they don't feel like you know like these days it's quite common people tend to go down that kind of cthulu tent CLE he doesn't you know I like that he uses kind of stuff that you always could believe could be real got his own style and that's it's brilliant it's a brilliant style for sure yeah yes so I mean what other kind of deloro isms did you Did you sort of see in it deloro isms I love that term well I think we touched on it pretty like uh already but it was very much he's he's always drawn to creatures he's always drawn to dark and grimy he always manages to fit in some kind of labyrinth in one form or another so obviously the underground the subway um the the Practical effects um is is him all over not one shot being wasted um so he's he's all over this movie from start to finish and it's brilliant when you sort of see that filmmakers come into the own as time comes along but this guy just clearly knew what he was from the St and that's absolutely tremendous yeah that's it I've I've never seen the shorts that he made before Kronos but I mean Kronos has got a very striking sort of visual look again cool designed creature and really good take on vampirism it's you know he he he knew kind of where he was going but I think I'd love to know where that obsession with the with the world under our feet comes from because I mean you know you think you think this you think um Blake two Hellboy you know they've all they've all got that kind of Subway scene or kind of there's a there's a some kind of creatures under our feet kind of thing you know hboy feels fulfilled with that um yeah it's definitely it's definitely a thing for him it's definitely like a motif um um yeah yeah it's uh it's how do you think I mean just just you know I made the comparison with Alien 3 now that was another great director making his Studio debut now do you feel that there's kind of a little bit of a comparison between the two I mean how do you think if you took Finch's first film del Toro's first film you know do you think there's a um any similarities between them anything you know that they can't do there was similarities in that I think there was a running theme of like uh sort of 90s horror or certainly like darker 90s movies like towards the end before the dawn of the ughs and I made this comparison like the look and feel the dark dness the misery like there's always there's always rain um but I even like sort of said this I don't know why but it was given us like end of days Vibes as well funny enough with Donald SW um and then that's when I started thinking about Alien 3 and the way that looked and I was like as much as the '90s was such an experimental phase in movie making there's there definitely a like the 80s but maybe not as drastic there's definitely a very subtle theme running through in terms of style like that movies like had similar to others um so for that reason yes uh it's similar to Alien 3 in ton H certainly the dark the dark aspect in uh there there there's plenty of rain in Alien 3 as well just makes my point I think I think a good one point actually that you brought up in in the Alien 3 review I think it's worth comparing to this one as well is the um the way that it feel they always had to have something that felt like another movie you know Alien 3 you said about how it felt a bit like Terminator 2 it's like they've gone yeah like Terminator 2 there's no doubt in my mind the ending of this one they were like the ending needs to be a bit like alien they definitely have this kind of Studio mandate feel where they're going yeah we need a bit of this big film insert name here that was really popular for whatever reason we need it to be a bit of that um and I feel that's the only thing where you kind of sense that decisions were definitely out of Del soro's hand so I guess uh I guess now that I mean we've talked about a bunch of the positives and everything we love about this movie but now we're starting to get into the whole uh well let's make it like this movie let's make like that movie so I think that's perfect timing for me to go into the three main things I didn't like about this movie yeah um so I've I've dropped hints throughout and I know you've seen this coming but as one of my favorite things about this movie is the the creatures and the Practical effects used for the creatures now probably my number one gray is the CGI used for the creatures you mentioned that moment when because up until this point okay there's there's a moment where you see the creature and all its glory and it stands up on the on the platform and the train up until that point uh the thing I admired most about this movie is the use of light and dark and how you sort of see them but you don't see them and that makes more Sinister and you see these like little parts of the body with blood trying to guess what they are and then the big reveal on the subway platform of massive CGI cockroach flies at her and picks her up and flies off I was just like oh [ __ ] off like it's it's it's it's it's we're going into the naughties so I completely get it and at that point people were experimenting with CGI and by uh when I watched these kind of movies back then I thought it looked great I thought that CGI business look great I was like wow that looks amazing but looking back now it's just like that hasn't aged well in the slightest I'm just like that you I would have enjoyed that scene more had that just never happened so the CGI in this movie is it's mainly predominantly used for the creatures for the more complicating scenes I guess I mean when he's chasing on the platform at the end and he gets hit by the tree and that runs ridiculous but I'm going to stop because I'm seeing red uh what do think of the CGI in this movie yeah I mean I mean it's a leap ahead to that final fight for what it's worth I mean it's not even a bloody fight I still think a lot of this comes Under the Umbrella of Studio mandate I I don't reckon deloro would have gone with a Cheesy they face off against the king [ __ ] it just feels so shoehorned in where they've like have a couple of lines like oh there's always a king and it's like well for a start anybody who knows entomology like that that the king is never the biggest thing and it's normally like dead up you know after one meeting or what like the fact that they have this door it's a king you know it's like oh well we had a queen in Aliens now we got the least scary poor CG bursts out and you just go yeah and then oh it gets hit by a train and it's like the way it runs like on two legs I think it's ridiculous yeah I thought that it's almost is almost laughable um I think I think some of the CG is okay I i' take the point but I mean it's the 90s and and 90s CG very unless you're like Jurassic Park it very rarely holds up I think I don't think it was any worse than like the CG of the alien in Alien 3 you know I think probably bit better CJ and alen 3 was good either though yeah yeah true so um it is a bit offputting but I think you know there was a lot worse I mean Christ if you tried rewatching Anaconda [Music] wow you know yes that wasn't even good at the time so yeah I think um I I think the CG CG wouldn't ruin it for me but I think it was more the choices they make for the CG where it suddenly like tried to make it more um yeah go go big it's like they went oh GMO you got to go big with this you know can't can't have a small ending you know so when he when he suddenly climbs through that hatch and conveniently finds every single bug in New York City sat over a gas man just ridiculous the later doesn't work car it doesn't mind what it it's like well I know what my plan B is like oh shut up that's not creates a spark that explodes yet he somehow manages to dive into the water which is the I mean that's my that's my favorite film making gripe of the whole movie is is the fact that you you get the explosion obviously he's meant to die he's I bet they got a second unit director while gu wasn't even looking to just go right just get him diving into some water get anyone get the runner diving into the water you can't see just so he can slot that in I bet they just inserted that you know without him know him because this this just like it's the most ridiculous shot it's like oh he jumps into the convenient bottomless water that doesn't you know incinerate him in any way like yeah I just I literally um I I really everything up until about the last 10 minutes and then I think the last 10 minutes is hor [ __ ] I think you know I I completely agree and I think you've being very kind with the words you use to be honest bug no I'm completely with you on that one um that the last 10 minutes and I mean I guess him throwing himself into the water and stuff um sets up a next point brilliantly because like I wish that he hadn't because my second gripe in this movie is uh is Jeremy noram the the man that plays what I can only describe he looks like a a 90s Egon from Ghostbusters which is but he looks like a very 90s version um I it's it's the actor I've got a gripe with because every word that comes out of his mouth there's just no emotion in it at all it's just like I don't know if it was the dialogue I don't know but there's this moment where he's on the phone and the signals bad and he's like Susan the the test was positive Susan Susan and it's just like I'm just like what the hell is going on here with his voice it's just every I don't want you going back to work there Susan and that is the way he talks throughout the movie I'm just like Jesus he's like so I don't know if I've just got it in for Jeremy noram or if that was actually the case like what do you think well I mean I think it's fair to say there's a reason he's not had some Stella career since right I mean like I know he was probably in a couple of things around that time but like yeah the guy is absolute Charisma vacuum my wife on it she just went what a drip like it's so unlikable he's just this kind of clingy drip yeah wow what did she seeing this guy you know yeah and he he just wasn't very good I mean he brought no no Charisma to that role whatsoever because there was that cut at the beginning isn't there there's that jump head six months where three years isn't it so it's like they met they got together they married three years later but you just sort think wow why why she this guy like just yeah everything about him I just found kind of kind of just unlikable right just there's nothing nothing likeable I think if he had died at the end liked him more given a good sendoff because maybe it's a bit of a cliche but it's like you know if he had sacrificed himself to kill the bugs and then that might have been I think that would have been a stronger ending you know it's been a cliche ending but I think A better ending than him coming out just going oh lucky you guys you get to live with your drippy family for the rest of life oh and can I can I just go on to you mentioned earlier about that in scene with her and the kid yeah can I just mention as well what like that kid is nothing to do with them his dad yeah is killed in front of him he's a poor autistic kid you know his dad gets hauled up to the bloody Rafters one of the one of the better deaths and actually the only moment one of the only characters I genuinely was like oh man I wanted him to live that guy I really liked his performance I liked the dad um you know and I thought that yeah that was a real like oh man hold up to the ceiling alien three you know but but like at the end you know they're hugging and the kid just comes up and gives them a hug like oh we're all one big happy it's like what and I mean because that's such a cliche right where where they it's like they become the new family unit at the end yeah but at least in Aliens there was a reason this kid had absolutely no reason to go up to her at all like she did not like that whole like comparison that I made between Ripley and Newt and Susan and uh chewy chewy there we go um like I just they're trying so hard to make her care about this child and it she doesn't come across and one of the main reasons that is when she eggs on the king cockroach get away from him get away from him and he turns and chases her and she runs she runs Dodges at the last minute of the kid was on the tracks at this point she does not does not give a [ __ ] about that child yeah I guess they stuck that shot in at the end just so he realized he wasn't smeared across the face don't worry I'm fine but yeah I mean yeah I mean I actually didn't mind the kid I mean it's a you know that again that's a proper kind of horror cliche right to have the kind of kid with the special ability or whatever at this point but like it kind of didn't really go anywhere I liked I I actually liked the idea of the spoon thing I thought that was quite interesting but it kind of went it didn't really go anywhere you know okay well I guess I'm on the other side of the same coin because that I get I get it but I already made my thoughts quite clear like so my third and final gripe uh is is the child but there's numerous there's numerous elements as to why like I I really think the whole this kid's got some like issue some ability or some like uh you know in this kid in this case the kids really his shoes he knows how to tell a shoe size it's very very clever but the it's my great I don't like kids with like gimmicks in horror movies because it's just been done to death and like the whole kid that wand off and the everyone's got to go and look for them and then like you said like at the end uh the role with the kid but I just think like a lot of people wouldn't have died had it been for this child like had it not been for this child you know what I mean so clear but yeah it was kind of I suppose this this goes to a bigger storytelling point I mean I agree it is it is a big cliche I think it goes to a slightly bigger story turning point of just like the convenience of getting everybody together it's like I liked I liked the dad and the son relationship I actually really like them like I said I thought I thought the the dad was great you know liked his character I think him going down you know he bumps into them because they're already down there investigating she gets grabbed by the bug and they all happen to end up in one place I mean I guess yeah it's one Nest kind of makes sense but it's but it yeah it's like they really only brought the dad in I guess to just be a body at that point funny enough on that note that you've just mentioned when he bumps into them this is a point that I didn't make but it was hilarious so you poor man Josh Brolin who's absolutely terrible with directions writes them down on his hands and gets lost and meets his demise and then this old guy just accidentally stumbles upon them and then when they're on the train he's like oh by the way I've got a map as well it's like why did Josh broland have to die you had a map like how did he even get lost it's ridiculous yeah that was when I saw he was in it I was like oh this is great because I don't remember anything about it so I didn't remember if he lived or died and uh yeah it was quite I thought it was a good death actually I liked it I do love in a horror movie a good somebody like about to get out and then you know away they go I love it blood was good um and I think I think um like I say I I feel like they went for like a 15 horror with this I think deloro probably would have gone harder on it had he had a chance um because he has in other things but there were there were some definite moments of of crunchiness in it I think that was one of them where he was just like yeah good okay you kind of felt that dep there was some brilliant sound design in that movie actually that's one thing we haven't mentioned I do think the sound design was very very good because the um you you sensed they were out there by the movement sound that kind of the flapping you know there was some great um great sort of little motifs to to sort of tell you the bugs were coming and yeah that was that was a good it was a good it was a good death for a young absolutely interesting the point you made as well about he definitely would have went harder because it's a it's a 15 horror but there definitely moments where you're like oh [ __ ] like they went pretty hard there and uh what scene that did that for me was uh this movie doesn't care about killing kids yeah yeah again yeah Delo Brant it was brilliant I was just like yeah I was like oh like it totally caught us by surprise and I was like but again like Del Toro yes but for the 90s that's like a big wow especially when they put so much eff out into saving this one kid yeah it's just like it felt like two different kind of movies were being made because you know yeah and they kind of made them like likable Street urchins little were likeable had a nice little banter and then you know they kind of yeah that scene happened I I just was absolutely sure they were going to get away I was absolutely sure and then they get killed pretty brutally and I was like Wow fair play and I cared about them more than I cared about chewy just to be clear like they had a lot more lot more to like about them and yeah quite brutal quite brutal end no they their only special ability sadly was to be very bad at recognizing bugs well to talk about those kids that leads me on to my final point which is my favorite quote of the movie my favorite quote of the movie Sometimes I have more than one vot in this case there was only one that stuck to my mind and it is by one of the child victims so to set the scene uh these two kids have heard about this bug woman that pays good money for interest in bugs and they bring the bugs over they show the book The just the box and see brought this really strange book and she's like oh brilliant and then she starts talking about the bugs to the kid the like how much her likes Bugs and they're like e that's gross like don't want to hear about that she's like no it's actually really interesting because of ab andc and then the kid just comes back with the best quote in the movie uh well whatever peels your banana Lady it's just absolutely brilliant I was like that's not a thing no one's ever said that before that's not a say whatever feels your banana lady that's absolutely tremendous I'm anybody can prove that Jack wrong on this one I'd love to know was this was this like a big New York saying of the 90s yeah this is B I'm gonna start seeing it regardless when PCY banana it doesn't sound good with an English accent It's You Gotta Have New York whatever peels your banana my lady just no no I don't think that's goingon to be entering the Mexican you can try bringing it back Jack let's try I I'll bring it back bring it back bring it back um I think you know just to Circle backround I guess my my probably one of my biggest negatives other than the whole last 10 minutes which is a [ __ ] show um is uh yeah it's just got going back to that that point about the hubis I think you know in a way the guy dying would have made sense because then at least one of them would have paid a price for kind of killing children and anybody else homeless people I'm guessing you know they don't really get a sense for how many people these things have eaten but but you know it's probably a few um and it could have been many it's like they used the gimmick of genetic mutation that Jurassic Park did but without any of the Fallout of Jurassic Park like by the end of Jurassic Park you're left in no doubt this was a bad mistake and and many people have paid the price in this it's like we made a bad mistake yay we're having a baby it's just no no lessons no lessons have been learned at all no lessons at all nobody uh sacrifices himself um and like there's an explosion it it reaches service level cars are set on fire I'm pretty sure I saw a family family car driving by everyone inside's on fire what kind of sacrifice is yeah yeah but everyone will be cheering they'll just be like yeah they saved us again you know because they conveniently killed every single bug in the sewers apparent I mean what I love as well it's a bit like um do you remember when I listeners have already you wouldn't have known this but about six months ago I I got Jack to watch a film called slugs and slugs if you haven't seen it going right it's passing yeah that's the best way to describe it that's I'm not even disagree yeah it's a classic of its type but um but basically uh the very end of that is basically the end of mimic um they set fire to everything in a sewer and they come out spoilers slugs um and and they just go yay we got them all and it's like how the hell how the hell do you the type of movie Slugs was slugs can get away with it slugs can get away with that but like when you're mimic you you can't just come out where's the months of Investigation the the of you know CDC going down there checking every nook and cranny of the New York Subway system no no no it's just like no one Fireball got them all it's done end of movie and I I hate those kind of endings in in horror movies and that they they were really prolific I think at that time and and it's just it's just the whole last 10 minutes is na and I feel like deloro probably walked off set for the last 10 minutes you disowned the movie a bit of a fun fact he disowned the movie in its original form and he was allowed to go back and sort of do his director's cut um and he said at the end of the day if people still don't like the director's cut at least I'm to blame and I think that like not for batim don't quote me on that but that that was the general gist of it all but he like he had issues with Studio interferance from the GetGo I thought it was uh it was really interesting that given we were only four films in we had our first loop around on the Chain we've had our first actor who could have actually been our you know a chain previous and that was we could have got to mimic sooner we could have got to mimic sooner absolutely sooner so so Charles Dutton obviously Dylan in in Alien three but yeah he uh he was brought in I mean the only thing I will say I thought I really like his character um I kind of again the noble death but wow the kind of noble black man death isn't it that's that's the thing it's like such a 90s cliche that and and in fact we're only at this point we're only two years away from L Co making a joke of that in deep blue sea you know literally I'm the black man I'm gonna die and and it's like um you you absolutely see why that happened yeah I know for sure terrible disservice when I did like his character though I really liked his character as the only person of color in the entire movie uh you know I felt I thought he was a good he was a good interesting character I liked him he had some good lines um nasty again talk about the body horror and stuff actually that's where again a bit Del with the um you know cutting him and then having some white goo all over his cut leg Yeah I thoroughly enjoyed the scene with them in where they go down when the first go down underground and there they see all that stuff on the wall and it's so they just look to to him and sort of say like oh you seen you seen [ __ ] like this before why are you asking me if I've ever seen some [ __ ] like this before do I look like I've seen some [ __ ] like this before hell no I ain't never seen no [ __ ] like this before who the [ __ ] would want to climb up these walls and hang one of these must been a big elephant ass [ __ ] I don't know the [ __ ] absolutely mental why why would I seen [ __ ] like this but was that was one of my f yeah that was one of my favorite lines and I thought yeah he was a really really good character you know that that got you know I mean in that sort of movie you're always gonna Whittle everyone away but um but what I thought was really interesting was his his death was exactly the same as Alien 3 like exactly the same he's on his back holding the monster off in this instance he's trying to shoot it but he's screaming as it's biting him and and it was like wow I mean literally identical the framing was identical everything I just thought wow they they couldn't be more original that like you didn't even have to rehearse for that SC like I've done it before to find EXA script and was like really oh yeah okay but um but I did I liked him kind of going off and singing and that shot was lovely as he walked up the the slope with the again you had all the light it was it was nicely done it was just a shame it kind of all rattled up the body count RS rattles up quite fast it's all happen minutes um but I actually really liked all the stuff on the subway car up until they you know they find the kid you know I thought that was all good The Siege stuff wiping the bug goo yeah again there was some interesting ideas in there and that's where you get the scene like you said with um Jeremy Northman and the glasses that's a proper cheesy 90s thing wasn't it using the glass as a and and then but like uh there's a not there's something I'm going to go back to another reason why I don't even think i' hate the character at this point I just hate him H but he uses the glasses to the as a conductor which is brilliant like you say and then he's got no problem running through doors like he can see fine earlier in the movie he has to put his this there actal shot of this earlier in the movie he puts his glasses on to talk to someone on the phone like his vision is that bad he had this phone he's like oh I got what we say Sor it's just like yeah but you can run away from the bugs fine at the end you can jump perfectly through this narrow grid of water yeah ex well I mean and it just again it just goes to show just how bad that ending was because like yeah my my wife literally commented on that she was just because she she wears glasses and she was just like hold on a minute like how's he even seen his bugs there how does he even know he's surrounded like just nothing he he suffered no detriment spark is brilliant he's got brilliant depth de create that Spar ridiculous and then dive into the convenient water it yeah his whole character just everything about I did see yeah I didn't like him um quick quick comment I thought um Mir Sabino I quite liked her thought she's she's sort of generally you know good good and everything I've seen you know I don't think she there's nothing like massively stand out about her she hasn't got the kind of she wasn't tough like Linda Hamilton Vibes of he wats and people like that I guess but um but funny enough halfway through I just thought she really reminds me of Brie lson I don't know that that was just me but there's a real Bri L sort of thing about about their face the way through I kep going she she really looks like somebody um maybe that's just me um but yeah I think uh otherwise um yes decent cast but I think that's probably a good good time for us to go to ads and uh talk about F Murray arram so we're back and yeah great this is uh this is a bit I always I really like this section of of what we're doing and uh you know because uh big or small the parts you know I'm I'm learning things about these actors um and it's a good excuse to do that I like diving into these these actors you know like Brian Glovers I seem to be picking the ones who have you know had uh maybe not like the necessarily Biggest Part in in the movie but um f muray Abraham let's quickly just get out the way uh the the mimic side of things um so I picked him because I knew you know obviously he's a big name and and he's in this uh and uh you know he's one of the top build actors in the film um it was quite a surprise to me especially because uh certainly in the director car I know is there a court scene at the beginning of the theatrical where where they're kind of announcing you know that that they cleared the bugs and all the rest it yeah there's this like pentious shot of f Mar Abraham and he stood there back and the reason I picked him and wanted to talk about him it's because I've always found him a really interesting actor like his face is just super interesting he's got such a unique look and a very good character actor and and this shot made me think wow okay yeah he's there's some big secret he knows then he came in later on and he's in the scene where she goes to see him and it's a bit like he's almost like a confidant you know and he is almost like the moral compass he's sat there with his arm around her and he's like you know what we did you know he he's that guy he's the um he's almost the Jeff Goldblum isn't he of the you know that line in Jurassic Park uh life finds a way um I very much saw him as like exactly the same as you Jeff gam and he even does this moment where he does this total Jeff over M he's like Evolution has a way of keeping things alive that's it that's the exact same as life finds a way I just like he's he's the gold Blum of this movie to going circling back around to ripping off from other movies I mean it's like you know you can make it up I mean that yeah you're absolutely right and but he is he's basically that sort of Jeff Goldin rle and I'm like oh wow okay and then her friend uh with the most 80s hair in the mid90s I've ever seen goes to um goes to see him and you think oh okay how are they gonna play into this whole finale and then that's it that's it he rocks up at the end he rocks up at the end and do you know what it popped into my head because it made me laugh um because I was just waiting the whole time for f Mar Aram to have some gamechanging role in this movie um and then he just turns up at the end as she walks out and it it made me think of the the monal episode of The Simpsons where Spock yeah you know L Leonard nemoy is there and at the end of the episode B goes but you didn't actually do anything and he goes didn't I and I just I I just couldn't not think of that with with at the end I just felt like she was going to go so what did you actually do in this movie didn't do anything wouldn't you like to know his entire character could be cut from that movie and it would make no literally no difference other than that one scene where he is the moral moral compass like it's so funny and it's it's a testament to the actor um like all he has to do is stand in a scene doesn't even need to say anything your eyes are drawn to him and as soon as you picked him obviously for this episode I was like oh yeah it's a really good choice and I remembered that he was in the movie and I remembered quite well and I always thought that he was in the movie more and that's like I say Testament his acting that he has such a presence that he literally only needs to be in a movie for five minutes to get top villain and have be remembered quite fondly for for being in the movies yeah I I I don't think there's ever been uh more of an example of character actor for this role because this role was just we just a good character actor to make this character not just be a really blammed because they could have just got any any you know to just do the role but I guess there is the one thing I will say about him and this leads nicely into sort of talking about I think F Mar Abraham is he he is a great character actor he is one of those great ones that um elevates a scene when he's in it he's he's never bad he's never a terrible actor and and I thought the scene where he was doing the the Jeff Goldblum um was a good scene you know I liked him I I thought it it was it was very um seen it before but kind of his performance very Earnest everything about him was very Earnest right at the end I did I do love the idea that you know you said that like don't go and look for him he's dead he's dead I can see him right there no no don't look it's a cockroach man he's been bitten he's infected come on let's go home all together like you and me H but yeah yeah I mean that aside I think he is just yeah he's just acting with gravitas and I think that's why I wanted to pick because I liked um that he popped up in Last Action Hero and I was like yeah he's just he's just one of those guys you seeing stuff and I and I've never um because I haven't still haven't seen amadas um I've never seen probably his greatest role but I just knew him as a face that I recognized from lots and lots of stuff and and looking at his filmography yeah that's that's really the best ter for him he's just a great character actor he always just pops up as well adds his finesse and like he doesn't have to be in a like doesn't even have to be a main character but he always adds a great deal yeah yeah exactly and and I think um yeah so I didn't know a lot about him so I looked up a bit about him and uh and it's quite he's got interesting interesting background actually because basically he he is of that generation of actors like um John malovich and Christopher Walkin and people like that that were part of the kind of New York theater scene in the 60s and 70s and they were all coming off the back I guess of your Mount and Marlin Brando people like that the you know quite honest Street actors who were not professionally trained and he he was exactly the same you know he he was basically he actually was saying um he lived in Texas and used to just fight and steal cars and and just kind of he he could have gone his life could have gone a completely different direction and then he met one of those kind of um Dead Poet Society teachers that changed his life you know and he started doing drama and literally off the back of that they were like really good at this and he just moved to New York to be an actor and it's really interesting because as soon as I found that out I was like yeah that's really interesting isn't it he he he reminds me a lot of those kind of actors like your John malovic is the the actors that can just pop up they can be in a couple of scenes but they're always good you you can always rely on them and and then they you know they don't necessar the whole film doesn't need to hang on them you know he probably could Le a film um and he's had big roles in TV and things like that but but I think as a as an actor he he is one of those that just he lets other actors also do the work um but is just great to work with you know and everybody was like that I read you know was singing his Praises you know he's a very good actor to work with by c um what's really interesting is he had a really southern accent and really that accent that he has that voice that's very recognizable he's almost like a posh American accent yeah he trained into himself because basically he wanted to do Shakespeare um wow so he he is the American equivalent of a of an RSC actor by basically you know he he did stage he did Hamlet he's done all the all the Big E you know he's he trained himself to sound more Posh so he could have that RP style an American equivalent of an RP accent so he could do Shakespeare and he still can quote sonnets and all kinds of stuff you know so so yeah he's just a classically you know classic sort of stage actor but but kind of without any of that sort of um training you know you never went into it to be an actor so yeah interesting Guy and um yeah I think his big breakthrough was winning the Oscar for amadas and I I just I was hoping to fit it in before we watched before we recorded this um and I just haven't had a chance I'd love to you have you seen howad I haven't and I really wish I could have dug you out of this H but uh yeah it's on it's on the list for sure I should have really I should have really been more professional and and watched the movie that he was but it's on the list and it will be get I mean it seem as his like Breakthrough movie and I know you know he obviously W best supporting actor for it um only thing I did find out and you know if we can't really talk about the movie I'll just say so we got so we're not completely phoning it in Jack um is that yes so ever since he won the Oscar basically every play he's ever been in he hides the Oscar somewhere on the set so basically like you know it'll be in a bin or under bed or you know I just love it it's like basically every single time he's done one he's so happy he won one he he basically carries it with yeah that's really nice really nice going on to a film I have seen um he was really good in Scarface um as and I think gets one of the best deaths I don't know if you remember this in Scarface but um he's the guy that gets thrown out the helicopter Omar and yeah that's uh that that was a great that was a great character role and I think what was particularly good about that was yeah he's playing one of one of the gang isn't he and then basically turns out he's actually a undercover placement and that's why they check him out that's probably my first my first movie that I saw him in I watch scotf at a very young age yeah um shock but I remember that that scene like I remember him more than I did uh alun from the movie like anyone talk to anyone about scarpi like man there helicopter scene you need to watch it so even then uh from my first uh experience with F Murray um he was immediately instilled into my brain you know I think I think actually that's the thing I will say about him is like um he's incredibly versatile and that's why he's a good character actor because he can he's got gravitas he can be knowledgeable and wise and kind of a bit like mimic where he's that sort of you know he's actually just the strong the kind of uh person that they turn to you know guide Mentor whatever he might be um and then on the other hand he can play like a skey you know drug you know Runner and and I think um you look across his career you know he's he's been immensely versatile you know he can do do everything from Shakespeare to yeah to sort of grungy characters I think you know another another big one in the in the 80s was name of the rose with um again Christian Slayer Sean conry so Sean conry yeah yeah and it's funny that you said like he sort of like Shakespearean acting really comes into play in that movie because it's obviously about monks way back in the day but it's uh he's it's funny because I think we made this point on Charles dance in the last episode um in that he's the exact same in every movie like he's always unapologetically F Mar but he's um but he always had something different and I feel like he's uh classic classically trained acting in the accent and everything plays so well into that role um in the name of the Rose um and but unfortunately um he didn't steal the the show away from connory because it's connory uh but another movie that he was in that immediately came my brain when you chose them and I think it's like I'm not saying I'm disappointed you didn't choose this for this episode because I very much enjoyed rewatching mimic but I am so sad that you didn't choose 1 in ghosts because he is so good in that movie have you seen 1 ghosts I haven't and I I'll tell you what it's because basically it came out that time when there was just so many crappy ghost films I just went it's a crappy ghost film and I just couldn't it's not it's not it's it's it's with with Stud that has it's got a massive cult following now it's another yeah massive cult following um Testament to practical effects goes it's it's go it's got such a it's got such an original concept it was like it's a very soft remake of a movie by the same name but the makeup on these ghosts because each ghost died in a tragic way but your man F Murray Abraham is um a collector of many many rare things like a covered things uh one of which is is ghosts that have died quite TR and he's got this massive like glass house that like contains them like in these different chambers but he plays such a sadistic swine like he's s he's such a bastard in such an amazing way so uh I think that's that's the main takeaway from from this you need to watch 13 Ghosts oh wow okay you you might have sold me on that I like literally I I just assumed it was just like ghost ship and all that other crappy ghost stuff that was coming out you know house haunted hill and all that stuff and uh so I I never even gave it the time of day I never even bothered but you let movie yeah yeah you've got me intrigued well I mean you know I was hoping to try and find a few more I mean one of the things I just quickly dive ahe but one of the things I I am really enjoying about this and and I'm going to enjoy about the podcast going forward is discovering these AC and trying to see more stuff they're in because even if we haven't seen a lot of what's on their on their sort of resume it's actually nice to to be able to sort of go and and find those films you know because um yeah so so I'll I'll have to give that a try um I think that's what I liked about I mean just you know I said just before but you know he is versatile because he can play he can play good and evil um you know and actually perfectly in in Last Action Hero you know where he he did that turn you just kind of knew you knew he was probably gonna be the the kind of if there was a bad guy in this it was going to be him but but he's also very likable guy in a lot of stuff as well so it's not like he's not one of those people you would cast as a bad guy automatically but he can play but he can definitely play that guy yeah yeah I think um I think actually you know just about his voice that is probably one of his most famous characteristics because um he's gone on to do a lot of voice over work because uh he was the voice of konu in moonnight um for Marvel so did you see that I did see moonight yeah yeah and it's perfect voice it's very makes such an impact yeah I think that's put it yeah yeah basically it's um to me he's like a bit of equivalent of um yeah I think Charles Dan is probably a good a good equivalent of him actually like he's he's an American version of a Charles Dan or maybe not level of Ian mcken but you know I mean they just add that gravit and actually and his voice is uh adds to that absolutely is one of the riches yeah he was always gonna play a god at some point yeah with a voice like that so there we go f Mar Abram I haven't got a lot more to say than that other than you know I'm looking forward to catching up with a few of his films 100% I'm going to be watching amadas because it's been far too long I i' i' I promised myself for decades I was going to watch that movie and I've never got around to it um and I love the soundtrack so uh so yeah need to uh need to get on that and 1 ghosts obviously and obviously gonna watch ghost surprise uh the surprise edition of the episode I will say absolutely everyone let him know in the comments how much he needs to watch this movie and how ridiculous he is but not having seen it and so it comes to my favorite moment right yeah so Jack F Murray Abraham uh he has walked off with uh you know with the the new post bug family uh unit and teleported away like leard Neo um yeah hurry away yeah away uh what are you gonna put me through next uh so I picked someone that was done in my opinion a disservice in this movie uh like shown him some that was was born onto the big screen uh through movies such as The Goonies a character that was amazing with directions then put in this movie absolutely [ __ ] with directions had to write them on his hand just wrote left right left right so obviously you know who I'm going to choose as someone that deserved a lot better in mimic but I'm going to choose Josh Roland start out was a child actor in the 80s I mean he's been through all the different decades and start in all the different types of movies that have come with each decade and he's he had a Resurgence um in the in the n and he's he's back and he's pretty much everywhere and I and I absolutely love that because I'm a huge fan of J R but one of the movies I'm going to pick in it was between his Resurgence and sort of when he was just getting like movies here and there the movie that I picked is a movie that I'm a huge fan of um and that is Robert Rodriguez's Planet Terror oh yes part of the Grindhouse part of the the Grindhouse that the either the former the L had Death Proof but specifically Planet Tera oh Jack brilliant oh that's awesome that's that's really awesome yeah that's cool because I've only seen it once so so yeah again really really excited to revisit that and and you know you know zombies are my jam and I yeah ABS goest in all the right ways someone has a machine gun for a leg we're both going to have a fantastic time yeah that's gonna be fantastic fun great stuff okay yeah well I um there wasn't like a huge amount of choice in the film I had a feeling you'd go for Josh but uh um you know but I I'm really shocked you didn't pick end game because I know how much love the yeah I think I've seen that movie Enough To be honest I don't think enough people have seen it little class yeah yeah yeah yeah and hopefully this will encourage people between now and our next episode uh to watch Planet Terror yeah yeah and you've been very kind to me at the moment because I know for a fact like there are so many people in Planet era I'm gonna have trouble whitling it down but um yeah that's uh that's going to be great fun excellent well we'll uh look forward to that one and uh yeah I think that wraps up episode four um just a quick quick shout out for your channel Jack so yes once again uh chanders brought to you in part by myself Jack from jackd um if you love movies or if you're a film fanatic check out Jackin movies.com we've got articles reviews recommendations um weekly video shoutouts by yours Julie and most recently uh we also have uh had an interview with uh Northeast filmmaker Neil Marshall so you can find that interview on our YouTube channel on our website on Spotify uh absolutely get involved yeah fantastic and I I can't wait to uh to watch that um I've heard I've heard quite a lot of side stories around um working with new Mar because um Stuart comron who did the effects in in off grid and still he he was that's right his main one of his main sort of makeup guys on The Descent through to Legion so uh so yeah basically um yeah heard heard a lot of good stories kind of about you know making well and truly well and truly picked ISB and I asked him the questions that I've always been curious about what did he think of The Descent to the [ __ ] seel um what was his opinion on I even ask him about Hellboy because it wasn't they didn't do know the way he want so to find out all the juicy nitty-gritty things that you'll have wondered about his movies hopefully they get on them certainly yeah please check out dark master films um if you're watching this on YouTube you're you're already here so please go browse look at and support some of these other great uh up coming horror filmmakers and their short films please send in thoughts comments uh we want to start reading some feedback out on the show sure and yeah we look forward to uh any of your thoughts and ideas we don't have a permanent outroad tagline cat as yet so if you can think of one I love a chain related pun bang it in the comments but in the meantime see you on the next link sh