Inside Trump's Trial With Olivia Nuzzi: 'It's Really Strange'

The Trump Trial: Surprising Revelations I want to talk about the Trump trial you've been all over it I think you're one of the reporters who's been really crushing this as a story and you're certainly like your Twitter feed is the place that I really go to to find out what's happening yikes I know um you know I go for you know let's say the New York Times for some substance but yours to really to find out like the fun stuff that's going on inside the courtroom and that's also very insightful um tell us about the trial so far what have we learned about this case I kind of I went into it thinking this is old news we all know the details of this we've been talking about Access Hollywood and Stormy Daniels for years and years at this point so I wasn't really I didn't have very high expectations for how revelatory this would be how interesting it would be um and I've been really surprised by how much I feel like I've learned and there was so much that I had not thought about in a really long time um that in hindsight is really interesting to reconsider about that period of time in the Trump campaign that election um and just the sort of like reverberations over the last several years in American political life um and it's been it was it's really strange to see Trump in that in that setting it's like i' you know it's seen him he's been indicted I'd seen him arraigned um I didn't think it would be so different but it really is because when you're in that Courthouse it's like their own kingdom and there are rules it's like being a kid in a classroom you have to you know ask sort of permission to do anything um and I I went downstairs the other day to get some water cuz there's nowhere to get water on the 15th floor where the proceedings are happening and uh it's cash only I learned the hard way I had to have a cop by me my water but um you know you're there and there's like public defenders with inmates right and you know I had to go look for like the public information office the other day which is on a you an adjacent floor and there are people in cells on that floor you know and they're like officers sitting outside the cell like you know out of a a cartoon you know with their keys and it's it's sort of just shocking to be in that type of setting with with him it's very um I'm aware like when I've been describing it especially when I'm on like MSNBC or something I'm like I know that I'm feeding into this sort of like resist it's like resistance bait yeah and I'm aware of that and I'm trying not to be overly um you know dramatic about it but it is a very dramatic scene so it's yeah it's like Trump looking Dow and yeah that like the judge chastising him and threatening jail time I mean well but it it is one of the rare instances that we've seen of the last like I'd say decade where Trump is not in control and where he's powerless yeah um which is a very interesting setting yeah I find it very sad not like like oh I feel so bad you don't feel bad for him I mean don't come for me um but like it's it's a sad it's just a weird sad thing it's like to go I covered him here obviously in 2015 2016 um I grew up in the tri state area I grew up in New Jersey my dad worked in Growing up with Donald Trump in New York Manhattan for the sanitation department he'd bring home the Daily News in the New York Post every day so he's like the great tabloid villain it's funny I grew up in New York and I feel like that's something that people that maybe grew up in different places around the country didn't really understand is that like we grew up hearing about Donald Trump your parents would be like this guy's such a like when you were a kid yeah I think we're like around the same age like The Apprentice came out when we were in elementary school right and I know that was a national phenomenon or International and kids knew all about him would like dress up as him for Halloween you probably would have made a really good Trump as a kid for hallow most insulting thing ione's ever said to me but thank you I somebody once did say that I looked like Eric Trump and it really hurt that's not true no um one time someone if it makes you feel better someone when I was like I don't know maybe like 15 someone was like you look like Seline Deion I was like thanks and they like you know like before she had that surgery pre surgery come on what like famously unattractive uh anyway um don't listen to them um but yeah I I find it very sad it's like I keep I'm talking to a lot of people that I I used to be in like daily contact with and like I still keep up with but I'm not on the phone with every day or multiple times a day anymore um and there's this sort of weird dream like quality like is is time real what year is it um and I'll be talking to someone I just think like when I met you 10 years ago almost I guess was it just inevitable that we would end up you know with this guy in Criminal Court here maybe it was and maybe maybe I just didn't have the foresight I I don't know one of the most interesting things I find about looking back because I was like you when I first I wasn't particularly excited to cover this trial because obviously it's one of the you know lesser of the criminal cases that he faces and but then when start reading about the substance of the case and the fact that I mean it's a serious story and it's a serious media story and for all the whining about you know media collusion that you hear from Trump's supporters in 2016 this was a real case of the national Inquirer effectively colluding with the Trump campaign to bury bad news about it I mean like the you know NPR not covering the hunter Biden story has nothing on this and the coordination between yeah um the Trump campaign and the national Inquirer uh is that this weird confirmation of all of these things that like felt sort of vaguely true like at the time but it's all much more obvious and much more much simpler than you would have thought that like reality could possibly allow for like yeah they they were in cahoots but they were literally contractually in cahoots right it really was Michel Cohen was calling up you know David pecker I guess Howard and saying and then to hear from pecker about I mean the thing that I was like it was almost like when people talk about hearing from John Dean during the Watergate hearings that there were tapes like there were tapes when he said uh that it dragged into the White House and Payments Made in the Oval Office they're having meetings about it in the Oval Office and it's involving what you know White House officials who are being paid by taxpayers um that was like astonishing to me and so just so we get a sense of the timeline the the payments were made during the campaign and then the reimbursements I guess were made when Trump was was president or I yeah I believe so and then it's a little murky and then the continuing deciding to continue the contract with McDougall Ken McDougall was then a columnist or a fitness yeah contributor a colleague of ours really when you think about it um and uh according to Pecker's testimony there was a conversation with White House communications officials Sarah Huckaby Sanders and hopix andix um and and him uh about whether or not it was a good idea to continue Caren mcdougall's uh non-disclosure which is wild that the White House was doing that crazy did are hopix and Sarah hucke Sanders going to testify here are they HX is expected to be a uh a witness for the prosecution um I haven't heard anything about Sarah Huckabee did you follow the gag order stuff yeah I mean the gag order stuff is fascinating because you the the major penalty that they can issue to Donald Trump for violating the gag order is $1,000 for each violation of the gag order um judge Maran wishes that it could they could penalize him more than that financially they can't he threatened jail time and it's like it's this crazy situation do you think Trump is going to be able to avoid that violating it again I don't I really don't know I mean he has not um I mean he's doing a rally as we speak in Wisconsin it's like God knows what he's Trump's behavior in the courtroom saying right now when I left he was like calling Chris CHR fat repeatedly so the who knows um yeah he was really playing the hits and having a good time up there um but I I don't know I mean he's never really shown an ability to moderate his behavior right um but the threat of jail time I mean I have to imagine being in that courtroom having no power having no control over the situation he's obviously not enjoying it not that any criminal defendant is happy about it I'm sure um I have to imagine it seems much more real what it would be like to be you completely powerless uh but I don't I don't know I don't know how he processes threats like that and part of me thinks and I know this is silly but that maybe part of him has thought that the possibility of being briefly jailed would be good for his campaign oh yeah I mean I'm maybe I don't know how he would I cannot picture him doing it doing it but um but certainly he loves pretending that he is the victim of this vast deep deep state conspiracy um he loves to be grieved uh he loves to have an enemy he's been campaigning on his mug shot since it was since before it was issued he's fun raised off of it it's been turned into merch um he talks about it all the time um it's this kind of iconic symbol of his political persecution for the campaign so if he could kind of uh Mandela himself into being a even bigger martyr um I'm sure in theory he would like that in practice I don't think he would do very well in jail no I don't think he would enjoy I don't know where they would send him the tombs or Rikers or something like that but I don't think he would enjoy either I yeah I wouldn't enjoy it either no to be perfectly clear The Unpleasantness of Jail yeah jail doesn't sound fun either way it does not [Music]