Ted OBrien I spoke with Shadow energy Minister Ted O'Brien about how today's warning was as predictable as it is worrying it is Chris I don't think it should be surprising anyone who's been following this to think that Australians are now paying among the highest electricity bills in the world and they're being told now that they have to brace for a very likely possibility of a of a blackout I mean the lights going out it's extraordinary but it shouldn't be a surprise now it's not a surprise but we ought to be angry right around this country because so many people have been warning about this for so many years in fact we know the only reason we haven't had widespread blackouts or brownouts over the past two summers is that we've had mild Summers we haven't had those really hot days when there's been high demand and that's what we've got to hope for again this summer presumably I think that's right Chris I think it was the same thing before the winter uh people were saying hopefully it's not going to be a bad winter and thankfully winter didn't bite anywhere as harshly as we thought it might so we survived I mean it's extraordinary to think we're in Australia of all places such a developed wealthy prosperous country and we're all saying well I hope the weather's going to be okay otherwise the lights will go out I mean it's it's it shouldn't be like this not just a Chris Bowen developed a wealthy economy but one that's built on sheep energy we are energy rich this economy has been blessed with cheap energy in Australia yet we've deliberately thwarted that and that's where you as a coalition have got to take some of the blame of course you're in government less than 18 months ago and obviously you haven't done enough to keep enough dispatchable energy generation in the system Chris a couple of things firstly uh as I've gone around different countries and spoken to their energy Mr ministers and experts we are the Envy of the world because we are so rich in our abundance of resources we are the last country that should have the problems that we have now uh as for uh the background in terms of how we get to this I think there are three key drivers here one premature close of Baseline power stations two a restriction on gas and three with Renewables I mean investment has stalled on that too so demand exceeds Supply and there's a risk there of a shortfall and and here we are um but the thing is the more that labor doubles down on this lunacy of driving to a Renewables only grid saying that some technologies are bad the worst this problem is going to get and I can't believe that the response from the energy minister to this use for the market operator is saying well aren't I doing a great job we've got the right policies no you don't have the right policies when it's getting worse the market operators saying it's getting worse all the energy experts are saying it's getting worse um but they need to address those three issues of Base load Power and Gas and that the Sovereign risk issue which is holding back on investment now Chris Coal subsidies Bowen just says they need more Renewables and more transmission to connect the renewals that just costs more money and doesn't give us the reliable Supply that we need and we're in a country here now where we've subsidized Renewables relentlessly for 20 years deliberately to force out fossil fuel generation deliberately to force out coal-fired generation but now we've got Victoria and New South Wales looking to subsidize coal to keep it online because it's being driven out by the renewable subsidies that were designed to force it out I mean it is that insane the whole thing is in tatters Chris so to think that here we have the federal government saying it must be only wind and solar as the generating assets meanwhile so orya well they're racing back to Coal um you know we're waiting for the New South Wales government to say the same thing to avoid aurar in close so everyone's going their own way it's an utter mess but still to this day Chris Bowen is saying nope we have to stick to 82 Renewables by 2030. there is no plan B this is is it he's racing is towards a cliff which is why we need to keep calling it out I know you've been pushing hard on Snowy Hydro 20 nuclear and the Coalition ought to keep doing that that's a great medium to long-term solution but obviously what we need in the interim is more gas-fired generation because that won't be a stranded asset no matter whether you have Renewables or nuclear you're always going to need some gas peaking generation around the country tell us what you think about snowy Hydro 2.0 though that was Malcolm turnbull's baby we learned today confirmation that its cost now is 12 billion dollars promised at 2 billion now 12 billion and that doesn't include the up to 10 billion dollars of transmission to plug it into the system and Chris when you think of those big numbers and then you hear Chris Bowen saying electricity prices will come down he does not account for any of those expenses and that was revealed only a week ago a 60 billion dollar black hole in his policy but as for snowy 2.0 the thing that I'd hit my head around here is it's gone from 6 billion to 12 billion in just over 12 months now I I don't doubt how complicated this is I mean this is one complex engineering fee no criticism of very hard-working sharp Minds that are working on the actual project but the Australian um now order office did a review of this at the end of the coalition's term of government and gave it a big tick for how it's being managed the governance being effective and then I heard Paul broad the former CEO on radio just yesterday saying around that time the price tag was 6 billion well now it's 12 billion now I think it's legitimate that some costs would have gone up that's fair enough but to double it in over 12 months and the only thing I can see changing is Chris Bowen signed off on a change in the deal construct it's no longer fixed fee but rather Cost Plus so instead of having the prime contractor responsible and holding their feet to the fire he's basically shifted responsibility to the taxpayer all the risk and additional cost that now falls on the taxpayer so is it really 12 billion or is it going to go up even further I think it's uncapped no we know it'll be 20 billion at least when you bring in the the transmission that's what experts have told us on this program for many many months it's a familiar story on this climate and energy policy lots of money going in lots of costs going up but not much energy around the place which seems to be the opposite of what Australian taxpayers deserve thanks so much for joining us Ted thanks very much Chris