Victory Laps and Life Lessons: Jeff and Harrison Burton

hi Dad thanks for joining hi Simon yeah well this is a little makeshift Father's Day gift for you I figured you could do the intro actually for this episode since it's a Father's Day episode a Father's Day gift of being on for the love of sport I can't think of a better gift for me thanks Simon I hope you have a great show today [Music] [Applause] [Music] there we go Mr Bruce Mack thank you for introing us into this wonderful episode of For the Love of sport welcome back everybody welcome back dear listener and yeah that was pretty cool Simon getting to see uh getting to see the uh other side of our dear our dear host Simon McKenzie so that was that was fun to have him on and obviously you know we're celebrating Father's Day with this episode it's this Sunday it's coming out uh we had your dad on shout out to my dad who probably wouldn't have agreed to do the intro so very cool that your dad did that I also got to give him a shout out I surprised him I sent him a link I said hey can you join this quick and I just kind of pretended that I was having an issue with something and then he joined and I was like by the way this is your father's day gift so thank you you're welcome no that's seriously that's super cool yeah and while we're on the topic too before we hop into you know our guest here uh you know big shout out to all parents all Guardians out there you know the life lessons and and things you learn as you grow up it's all it's all wonderful when it all comes from love so big show everybody out there no matter the form or who you've got in your life your family your chosen family whoever that is celebrating everyone today love that but we've got a pact a packed little episode today so I think the uh the lovely little banter here can get uh cut short and maybe we just hop right into our interview what do you say I think so let's get right to it our Beyond thrilled Jeff and and Harrison Burton first we're gonna put the spotlight on Jeff Burton affectionately known across the NASCAR Community as the mayor what a fantastic nickname by the way uh with his charismatic presence Jeff has been a beacon of knowledge both on and off the track throughout his career he's driven with extraordinary tenacity skill and amassing and impressive 21 Cup Series victories post his racing career Jeff transitioned into broadcasting Ruth lending his expertise to the NBC's coverage of NASCAR and has become a wise guide in taking viewers through the thrilling twists and turns of every race our second guest today is his son Harrison in a rising star himself in the next generation of NASCAR he has his own successes on the track and has stepped into the high stakes world of NASCAR holding his own in a field of Veterans as 2017 NASCAR k n Pro Series East Champion and 2020 NASCAR Xfinity series Rookie of the Year we're looking forward to diving in more and learning more about the two of you and RI and I are admittedly newer to the world of racing and NASCAR from especially from a youth sports perspective but with that Jeff Harrison welcome to the For the Love of sport podcast we are too we are uh we've got the adrenaline going uh I can only imagine this is exactly how you feel behind a car you know um absolutely we like to jump in really with uh with the great connector which is you Sports because you know most uh people have that have fond memories of playing when they're young that's so foundational just being a kid and growing up and I think just Jeff starting with you can you talk about um your own Youth Sports Experience and how you kind of got involved in racing and what that looks like and then likewise Harrison if you want to follow up after that yeah I had a great use of the youth and sports I was the son of a very athletic father a very competitive man still today mid 80s competitive uh and we did everything we played basketball we played football we played baseball we played soccer we raced go-karts uh we did it all and we went from one season to the next and and I actually love that I I I remember my Fondest Memories of school were in gym like it's probably a lot of people spill that way but um I you know I really enjoyed the opportunity to play all different kinds of sports and to be exposed to a lot of different thought processes different coaches different rules different strategies I was not a great athlete by any means but I did learn at an early age to hustle uh you know I wasn't a good enough athlete so I needed to run try to run faster or faster or harder or longer than the next guy and I try to out hustle him so to me that that use that youth experience was great and uh also have you know my parents were very supportive my brothers were very supportive I think you know come to games we would go to I'd go to my brother's games and I think that was great for us too because I always knew my family had my back and so yeah it wasn't just learning about how to kick a soccer ball that was learning how to work with others and compete against others learn how to lose learn how to win I think sports do that in a way that uh very few other things can 100 we've I know we've talked about that you and I Marie about how Sports is one of the few venues where you get to experience losing in a safe environment and learning and then you learn so much from just those experiences I guess how did the transition to you mentioned racing go-karts I did catch that so basketball and all the other sports too so at what point were you driving a go-kart going you know this is this is what I'm gonna do now how did that transition happen yeah so my dad as I said he was a very competitive person and he heard that was a go-kart race in her local town and so he took my oldest brother Ward who also was a cup driver uh he took him up there and like a cart that you would have in the yard you know what I mean he's like can't beat anybody right and uh got up there and my dad always loves speed and Ward did pretty well I guess in this cart and next thing you know we're all racing go-karts and traveling all over the state of Virginia my dad actually raised go-karts as well I wasn't old enough yet uh then you had to be seven years old to drive and so the minute I turned seven I I started racing uh but there were times we had a like an old suburban and we put two go-karts in the back of it one on top of the other and for me to go I'd have to ride in one of the go-karts in the back and uh you know so but I want to do what my brothers are doing I want to do what my dad was doing they were my heroes and what they were doing I wanted to do and I certainly felt like early on that I could be better at that than other than sticking Ball Sports although I had to work at it I felt like I was better at that I had more of an opportunity to be successful in that than I could playing soccer base and definitely baseball [Laughter] Harrison were you better at baseball do you think or was tried so my problem is I have the same genes as my dad does not the most athletic guy in the world but uh yeah so baseball wasn't in my cards either that's for sure what uh what about you Harrison though from other sports were you because of your family's background more inclined to just Dive Right into racing or were you dabbling around in some other sports too yeah I messed around some other stuff for sure uh you know it seems odd I really wanted to play football but my mom thought it was too dangerous which is a strange thing to say as a professional racer yeah so I really wanted to play uh football and she wouldn't let me and so I told her I could uh you know try lacrosse instead and she didn't notice the rules of Lacrosse are also pretty physical yeah and so I kind of snuck that one through and uh the first play I Remember You know I started fairly young in Lacrosse I had been racing since I was five I started racing at a really young age lacrosse came a little later but I remember my first game it was a little indoor league in Lacrosse and I got hit so hard my helmet flew across the you know the field and I fell in the ground on and I remember looking up and just seeing my mom looking so mad that I had to kind of like snuck this through so yeah I played lacrosse growing up quite a bit and then as racing got more serious which it did for me I feel like racing got pretty serious by the time I was 14 15 it was kind of my already what I wanted to do for a living it was kind of my full-time job at that point you know I went to a normal high school still but you know it's when it became kind of serious so I had to drop the lacrosse out of things and go into racing but the racing side of things is really neat as a kid growing up it's a lot more just like any other sport than you would expect I grew up racing a race car called a Quarter and there was you know all these kids that would race these carts it's a lot like a go-kart just has a roll cage uh another thing that my mom wanted because uh I didn't she don't want me to fly out of the go-kart so uh she's very sexy she's safely inclined if you don't notice right but you know she uh she wanted me to be in a safer car so I did that but you know it went from you know you would go race your buddies and if you know right after the race you would go ride around on bikes or go play football or go whatever so it turned into kind of a bunch of friends and I still have friends that I met when I was five years old uh with Quarter Racing so yeah it's really similar to the kind of sports experience and I was pretty glad I grew up the way I did doing that it was a lot of fun I think that's an area that we certainly like when we I think our experience is certainly like just big long fields and you know orange slices and Capri Sun but I imagine they still have orange slices Capri Sun on the track so that's not necessarily just for soccer or basketball whatever it is but um I think that's something that you know we wanted to dive in deeper just what that I guess how that whole thing how thing works where you're just like you're going from playing lacrosse once and then you're you're diving it into go-karts and quarter midgets the next and I guess my question is how does it scale up from there do they it's just slowly introducing you to just more and more horsepower Vehicles yeah for sure for me it was probably quicker than my dad can kind of talk to this pretty well too it was kind of quicker than most people ice raced quarter midgets from the time I was five till I was 11. um and there's different classes in there than and the carts get faster and faster and faster and those little go-karts you know they're running really fast by the time you're 11 I mean it's all you can do to hang on they're so fast you run you know six second lap times so it's a little small race track and you're just zipping around there and so for me I went straight from that to a full-size uh race car called a late model which is basically a stock car looks similar to a what you see yes race on Sundays and I started racing those when I was 11. and that's a big step that's a bigger step than I would say most kids take you go straight from hey these are my buddies I've grown up racing them to okay here's this 40 year old man that I'm racing and he has to finish well to be able to race next week and it's going to help him put food on his table to finish well and so it's definitely like a a big jump I remember my first race in a late model I bumped this guy in an accident and he was you know really mad at me he didn't know who I was or how young I was and he came down it was cussing and yelling at me and I got out of my car and at the time I was four or I was like five foot one right oh my gosh and he just walked and went the other way but uh yeah such an interesting jump from like this is fun to okay these guys are serious now and I'd say that most kids have steps in between that but that was kind of how I did yeah I feel like I need to ask because I'm curious what is it obviously when you're 11 years old you don't have a driver's license that's like not a thing what does that look like and then when you got your driver's license where you let me just show you a few YouTube videos and we can be good and I can just get my license or what does that look like what does that look like yeah maybe my nephews listen to this and going listen up this is how we're going to get our licenses this is it this is it right here exactly no I didn't there was no early license for me I had to get my mom or my dad to drive me to the racetrack so I could go drive a race car and then would hit in the back seat and they would drive me home so good you know it's so I that's certainly a interesting concept and then I had uh you know and I don't know how it is in different states and whatnot but in North Carolina you have to get hours with a co-driver uh to get your full license and this guy that I drove around or you know I wrote drove him around for a while uh he just fell asleep you're good I'm gonna take a nap two hours of this dude I didn't know just sleeping in the passenger seat so your mom it was a guy from um but it's like a guy you have to get hours with you know that's outside of your parents so it's a that was an interesting scenario for sure I don't want to get him in trouble so no names that's completely fair and I think Jeff to you I mean were you were you also a co-driver I mean I know there the laws differ from state to state my myself like I had to drive with my parents like a parent a parent or guardian or person like in the car to get a certain number of hours before I could take my driver's test you guys mentioned safety I mean Harrison you mentioned it from as a perspective of football no but racing yes for sure I think I imagine there's some deer listeners that may you know when they when they have this connotation in their head of of racing and especially driving at that kind of high speeds in safety now Jeffrey what if you can talk to sort of the importance around that and maybe set some Minds at ease maybe my own I I don't want to say I worry for it but it's like if my daughter comes up to me and says I really like driving go-karts I really want to go after this I I feel like I need to have some words I should just call myself down because I can imagine just my heart kind of jumping out of its chest well look you know no one's claiming it to be you know the safest thing you can do for sure I mean there's you know you just have to weigh the risk and you have to you have to put young drivers in situations where you know they're going to make mistakes and they're they are in a safe environment as they learn you know as they make mistakes they're going to make them they're going to be in wrecks they're going to be in incidences you have to they have to be going the speed that they're going to minimize the opportunity for damage right or an injury rather and you know the same as football you know like you don't you don't put you know you shouldn't put an eighth grader with a with a 12th grader right with different sizes and everything else so you try to limit the exposure and you put them in the put them in opportunities that they're ready for and it's really no different than any other sport it yeah you know it it has an element of danger to it there's no doubt about it and uh you know but safety's come a long way for sure but you can't ignore it you can't ignore the opportunity is there uh you have to educate yourself and you have to you really pay attention to the rules and pay attention to the rules and pay attention to you know what you know the manufacturing Bachelor of the products the Safety products they have very clear instructions on how to use their products use them the way they say that you're supposed to use them and uh but they're but you know there is an element of danger in racing as it is in any sport I imagine there's just a pillar of that education though when you're you know learning the ins and outs and the finer details of racing two that like safety is sort of like Paramount so I imagine there's when we think about practice in that concept I imagine those things are drilled and repeated too am I right well so every slowly what Harrison talked about with border midgets there was a there was and Harrison can talk about it if he was so young he might not remember it but there was there was uh you know he had to be approved like he had to go through some classes he had to do some things that he was a before he could get on track he had to be approved to get on track and then anytime he raised he had to start in the back of the pack he wouldn't let him start in the front like they walked him into it and they had a they had a training process that he had to go through uh to make sure that he was he was ready and uh and they put you know they put experience people together you know they they they do a nice job or did a nice job and not I'm not involved anymore but at that point they did a really nice job of putting you know the people together that should be together and going to speeds they should be going and when Harrison started I mean to me it looked like he's going 100 mile an hour but he's probably going 10. so uh it's just real important to be with a group that recognizes you know and and it puts your child in a safe environment in the positions that he's ready to be in or he's not ready to be in yeah I feel like racing probably and maybe it's because people aren't as many people aren't as intimately close to it don't understand all the safety measures that actually go into it they you know just because they don't understand doesn't mean all these things aren't happening we had a question too and maybe Harrison you can you can answer this one uh obviously as part of like training and practicing um do you use like simulators or anything where you're doing a lot of stuff where you are in a safer environment where you can kind of push yourself and do some different things uh so then when you're actually behind the wheel it's not like I'm only just practicing when I'm actually out here yeah that's actually you know we talk about that a lot is that's the hardest thing about racing is yeah you know if anyone can go pick up a football and throw it and try things or say even just to relate to fans or to people that want to watch the sport you know I can watch Patrick Mahomes throw football and man I can do that right so yeah it's hard to relate that the simulator is uh for us is becoming one of the biggest tools that we have to do that you know Ford I drive for Ford performance and they have a uh multi-million dollar simulator where all the drivers Circle in and out the teams can try different things the drivers can try different things so you know I was in there yesterday from 7 A.M till 11. uh it's kind of my shift every week that's part of my job now is I go in to the simulator I help them tune it to be more realistic uh we go through different things that the crew chiefs might want to try for the car for the upcoming race I give them my feedback on that and it's crazy you know you the simulator is so realistic now that I can feel okay they change the right front shock I can feel how the car pitch changed I can feel it's getting more grip for the front end of the car I mean it's pretty uh unreal how far that has come and the reason for that is like you said it's a it's a safe place to do it you can try stuff uh it's expensive to wreck things it hurts to wreck things you don't want to do that so it's like freedom for all these Engineers that have all these ideas uh you can just go in there and type it in see what happens and if I Bounce It Off the Wall I'm gonna be fine and we'll hit the reset button and go again so um for us that is uh becoming and it was the tail end of my dad's career it was kind of just starting and now for me that's uh a Mainstay in almost every single race team is simulator time through whatever manufacturer helps them out yeah I've seen two and maybe it's because and I don't know maybe I'm gonna speak here then you guys are going to be yeah we don't like F1 but I've watched the F1 documentary okay there's no bad blood there I had no idea tour kind of thing going on uh okay so any anyways I've seen obviously that's exploded in popularity probably in large parts of the documentary but I've also seen that from that to get more fans engaged they're creating like places you can go I think the first one's in Boston where you go and there's just simulators everywhere and so that's kind of a cool I'm sure it's cool for you guys to have fans be able to make me relate a little bit more and understand the sport more and it's obviously just going to help it grow and grow um more but maybe we'll have to do a field trip Simon and give that a go yeah I think I'll be horrible but oh yeah same there's no way I'm gonna be great at it right away I mean the interesting thing like the simulator Harris is talking about that he doesn't afford you know it's full motion so that's crazy you know it's not only is it visual it's motion yeah which is really the key like really the key for a race car driver you know to drive a race car you have to operate on the edge of grip and on the other edge of that is the wreck and so you've got to find that very edge of where the car is going to leave the racetrack spinning out or going into the wall that's where the speed is that's where the danger is that's where the speed is and so having that ability to operate right on that edge of the grip without crossing over it that's how you make lap time and that's how you go fast that's a feel thing it's like you feel the car start to grip since that before it starts to lose grip and the simulator like eye racing which is awesome the graphics and visuals are amazing but it doesn't give you the feel but what it does do is it does show fans when they and it's very easy to get onto and it does show fans what it feels like and what it looks like and the situations the drivers get themselves in and you know the adrenaline rush of I got two laps to pass this guy you know all that kind of stuff and it's been really good for our sport because it exposes it exposes fans to uh that it doesn't expose them to the danger right and like Harrison said that's a that's one of the hardest things that when I do it for a living one of the hardest things to do is to explain what a driver is feeling not what he's seeing but what he's feeling because you can see what he's seen we have great cameras in the cars and the helmets what we don't have is a way to feel it's like an MMA fight it's not for me correct it's a lot like that and it's something that we you know you know you can go to the YMCA and get into a basketball game yeah and you can do that with soccer you can do that with baseball you can do that before you can't do that in racing and it's very hard to do with fighting also so there are just two sports that are very difficult to explain what it feels like to be to be in that race car or in the ring I'm curious about that about being able to the idea of teaching that and I wonder you know Jeff you can speak to you know being a parent and watching Harrison go through this how I know you I'm sure you were involved I guess was there a point where you were you were the coach or were you potentially overstepping what the coach was trying to coach Harrison do well I never overstepped okay oh yeah I have to ask the questions we got to get that on the records perfectly if you want but I'll wait there's uh there's one way to learn right and that's different and there is a way to prepare and they're two different things right so you can prepare and Harrison and I could talk a lot about and watch video and and talk about the things that he is going to experience the things that he needs to do the thing he's not doing well yeah it's a whole another thing to actually go out and execute on it and so that's when he just has to he just had to go do it and he had to experience some things and we knew there was going to be then and there's going to be in the future times that he doesn't know that he's doing something wrong or that he needs to be better and that's you know that's just how it is every athlete is like that and so um as is God has he's gotten older and has as many races under his belt and as many as the experiences as he has under his belt now I'm like a 30 000 foot view guy you know I'm the guy that just when I see something not necessarily that he's doing but more of an approach then I'll step in and say hey what about you know think about this uh but I we don't talk about hands and feet and steering wheel and we don't talk about that we don't talk about those kind of things it's more you know I've been there from an emotional standpoint I've been there I've experienced things that I know he's going to experience and a lot of those things aren't good like it's it is a you think about this so if if a cut if a Nascar Cup team wins four races that is an amazing year yeah think about that if a if a football team wins four games they're terrible yes it's a lot like Golf and that yeah there are a lot of people in the field and you can have a really good day and finish tense like a really good day and finish down you can run well and finish 20th it is so competitive and so that is you know goth and racing are very much alike in that and and you just can't always look at the school board and say this is the day I had it's more complicated than that and sure uh trying to help Harrison navigate through those challenges of what it's like to be a cup driver uh because it is it is much harder than people recognize it is exceptionally hard yeah and it's the same thing you know if I'm an unskilled viewer I love sports but I'm unscured I can watch a college football game and it really doesn't look that different to me from a pro football game but if I put five Pro players on that College field I would do yeah right now I understand yeah and it's a lot like that in racing like when you put all the cup guys in the field they look like the same as the truck race but when you take some truck guys and put them into Cup race you do ah now I understand that's how good the cup guys are so it's it's just very hard until you've experienced it to understand it Harrison got a taste of it last year and uh so I'm you know I've tried help in that regard but when he was when he was a developing driver and can I do this or can I not do this I was much more Hands-On much more Hands-On but I but at the same token I was still racing too so there were times most of the races the Harrison rans especially quarter I wasn't there now we worked on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and Thursdays but on Saturdays and Fridays it was he and his mom oh got it I think it's uh I've heard and you mentioned golf uh I feel like I've heard they a lot of times after a major they'll say the thing where there should be an amateur out there so you can really see because I think golf is you were spot on is another one where it's like can't be that hard and people who golf no yeah very hard I feel like you probably couldn't achieve that in in NASCAR it would probably