Herb Greenberg on the dealmaking landscape for U.S. Steel, Verizon and Topgolf

Published: Sep 04, 2024 Duration: 00:04:35 Category: News & Politics

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ACQUIRED IT IN AN ONGOING DEAL AND THE SAGA WHERE THEY COULD BLOCK NIPPON STEEL'S ACQUISITION OF U.S. STEEL. LET'S BRING IN HERB, SUB -- I THINK I MESSED THAT UP, OR THEY DID. >> IT'S OKAY. >> WHERE DO YOU WANT TO THE START? WHICH IS MORE CONSEQUENTIAL OR TELLING? >> THE ONE I FIND MOST INTERESTING BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WRITING ABOUT IT SINCE 2023 IS TOP GOLF BECAUSE IT'S A TREND THAT'S FASCINATING IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS INDICATING DEALS THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THE HEADY DAYS OF 2021 THAT ARE NOW UNWINDING AND COMING UNDONE. I RED FLAGGED THIS COMPANY IN MAY OF 2023 IN MY RED FLAG ALERT WHICH IS IS PART OF MY SUB STACK AND LOOK, IT WAS HEAVY IN DEBT. THE GLORY DAYS DIDN'T GO, AND IT WAS A POORLY CONCEIVED DEAL AND NOW THEY'LL BREAK IT APART AND NOW YOU HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE IF YOU'LL SEE MORE SITUATIONS LIKE THAT WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, A VERIZON AND FRONTIER WHERE, YOU KNOW, FRONTIER HAD AN ACTIVIST INVESTOR IN THERE THAT WAS LOOKING FOR THEM TO DO SOMETHING OVER TIME. VERIZON IS LOOKING TO BUILD OUT BANDWIDTH AND FIBER. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A SPECIFIC SITUATION AND THEN YOU HAVE A POLITICAL ASPECT OF SOMETHING LIKE U.S. STEEL WHICH IS JUST A ONE OFF IN THAT REGARD, BUT COULD BE VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE AS WE GO FORWARD FROM AN ELECTION STANDPOINT, WHAT REALLY MATTERS? THE FTC MATTERS AND THE ANTITRUST MATTERS AND IF YOU WONDER WHETHER THIS MARKET WOULD BE A BIGGER DEAL, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT IS THE ONE THING PEOPLE WILL BE WATCHING ALONG WITH INTEREST RATES WHICH OBVIOUSLY IF THEY WENT LOWER WOULD BRING IN PRIVATE EQUITY WHICH WOULD BE STUCK IN THE MUD. >> THAT'S TRUE. >> THAT WOULD BE A KEY CATALYST ON THE SIDELINE AND THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT WOULD BE A BUZZ KILL IN MANY OF THE DEALS. LET'S DWELL ON MY FAVORITE OF THESE, THE TOP GOLF, CALLAWAY SITUATION. WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THIS? WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THIS, HERB? >> I THINK YOU LEARN FROM A COMPANY AGAIN, IN THE GO GO DAYS AND I COME BACK TO 2021 WHEN RATES WERE LOW AND LOTS OF DEBT WAS SPENT ON THE STEEL. IT LITERALLY DID NOT BRING THIS COMPANY INTO -- I MEAN, I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE DEAL. WHEN I WROTE ABOUT IT AND I RED FLAGGED IT, I SAW CASH FLOW AND THE NET INCOME REALLY FALLING OFF AND IF YOU GO BACK AND START WATCHING, THE COMPANY WAS ACTUALLY STARTING TO COME UP WITH WHAT I CALL MADE UP METRICS AND IT WAS TELLING THE STREET TO LOOK AT AND AS YOU SAW THESE THINGS HAPPEN IT WAS UNDER INCREASINGLY A LOT OF PRESSURE AND AS THE STOCK CONTINUED TO FALL, THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO NOW SPLIT THEMSELVES APART. OBVIOUSLY, IT ISN'T A BUYER AND IT SPLIT THEMSELVES APART AND YOU FIND OUT THAT THESE DEALS THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DONE ARE NOW COMING UNDER FIRE ESPECIALLY IN A MARKET LIKE THIS WHICH IS WHAT I WOULD CALL A MUCH MORE JITTERY MARK. >> HERB, I MEAN, MAYBE YOUR FOCUS ON THIS IS BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE RIGHT PART OF THE COUNTRY TO FOCUS ON THIS. THEY'RE NOT THAT FAR FROM WHERE THEY ARE RESIDING. >> NO, THEY'RE JUST UP THE ROAD. >> HERE'S MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS THIS IS NOW GOING TO BECOME MORE OF A COMPANY PURE PLAY FOR GOLF EQUIPMENT AND APPAREL AND ONE THAT WILL BE FOCUSED ON THE GOLF ENTERTAINMENT SIDE OF THINGS AND HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A CUSHNET'S OUTPERFORMANCE DURING THE SPAN OF 2021 UNTIL NOW PLAYED INTO THE DECISION BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE SAY, HEY, YOU IS EVALUATE PURE PLAY GOLF EQUIPMENT AND APPAREL BUSINESS MORE THAN TOP GOLF CALLAWAY? >> I THINK THAT'S KEY TO IT BECAUSE YOU OBFUSCATED WHAT THE REAL BUSINESS WAS. TOP GOLF. YOU TALK TO PEOPLE SOMETHING LIKE A TOP GOLF AND IT'S A GREAT EXPERIENCE AND IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE AND TOP GOLF WAS A POST-COVID PLAY AND THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE BOWLING OR ANYTHING ELSE. THESE ARE THINGS THAT DID EXCEEDINGLY WELL AT THAT POINT IN TIME, BUT IT'S NOT INEXPENSIVE TO USE AND GO TO AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT DID REALLY WELL DURING THE PANDEMIC AND AGAIN, THEY'VE BUILT AN ENORMOUS FACILITY HERE IN SAN DIEGO SO IT'S NOT GOING AWAY, BUT YOU HAVE TO SEPARATE THE TWO. OTHERWISE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE PURE PLAY. BEING LOOK, I FOLLOW CALLAWAY SINCE IT WAS PUBLIC AND IT WAS A CONTROVERSIAL NAME ALL OF THE WAY FROM BIG BERTHA ON. IT WAS AN UP AND DOWN TYPE NAME AND THIS, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I NEVER UNDERSTOOD

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