so this is the second podcast I think the first one was a success what do you think I don't know I didn't I never watched it I thought I thought it was good we had a bunch of good feedback but um we had a I saw a bunch of different comments uh with people people are very interested in a lot of different points in your career um but today I would thought would be cool to talk about one what happened at indie for my race um just because it was last weekend and then we can talk about um a little bit of my journey um because we talked a little bit about your journey but I was going to talk a little bit about the four the four truck um and that was kind of my start of my career and then what it was like when you started your career so first I want to talk a minute about the Indie race we had a fast car and it was uh really fast in practice and we made some really good adjustments and qualified 11th um and we had a really a top seven car or better um was really one of the favorites uh going into the next day with a lot of people that watched the practice on Friday and then they we went down into turn um we went through turn one I passed a couple cars went through thir and two passed a couple more cars and then going down the back straightway at a big run I took the Run um I wanted to stay with the seven car but just wanted to take the Run um and get cleared of a couple more and then going down the back straightway I saw the 16 car go on the outside of the one car when they were he was already too wide the one car should have never let the 16 car get up there he should have blocked it and when I knew when we went in the corner the one car didn't lift at all and the 16 car went in there and the inside car is going to get loose because of the air and he wrecked just like I thought he was going to and I slowed down to try to miss it and totally got wiped out and knocked the toe out destroyed the whole body and we just rode around all day and finished 19th so that sucked that was frustrating well I think a back up a lot so you had an hour practice which most of the time none of the classes have yeah so consequently the team that have the best engineering and can use the Sim the best which is not any more assimilating the way the car is going to be it's really close the way the car is going to be it's particularly as sensitive these vehicles are that allowed you and Shane to make some changes you would have never been able to make before y well excuse me since you can't make changes you can make adjustments so so I think what's more important than all that is how you got to be that's the best youve qualified all year that I know of well we qualified fifth at Charlotte you did but it's better than normal yep and the reason was and the reason was that you were able to make changes the reason that you got the attention of competitors as well as the commentators is because y'all had an hour's practice and you could make more adjustments with the hour that you normally never get to do with 20 minutes so it closed the Gap with 17 of the 18 teams that yall are competing with that have the alliance with some want yep yep so I really hope that next year they'll give us more practice um just because look if we're already doing 20 minutes just give us 45 minutes and let us change whatever we want to change just give us 45 minutes and let us change whatever we're going to change they don't seem like they want to do that even even if we did it for half of the races would be great um so hopefully um that that can maybe change I know they've had some meetings about it so that's good and and um it's just like that package we ran at Indie that was a different package and I thought it did well it closed the Gap and the reason it closed the Gap was because the speeds were down a little bit um and it's just a different different style of race but anyway that was frustrating a little bit about that but anyway let's go to the next thing I wanted to talk about when you let's talk a little bit briefly about wa yeah let's back up for minute before you leave Indy y'all kept on making a bunch of changes you didn't get frustrated I'm proud of you how you keep your composure you're doing better than I did on that you're keeping your composure and y'all race to a Night P Place finish with some really good cars right there so with all the damage you had you know y'all salvaged we the best you could of what you had you get you didn't we were hoping you were going to get to show your hand a little bit more and see really what your car and team were capable of but maybe next time yeah I mean I don't know it's been one thing after another this year that's why I didn't even want to talk about the rest of the day to be honest it was just what we I feel like we do that every week well you brought it up um it just I don't know it just it's frustrating finally it's frustrating because y'all are so close Just Like Larry MCR and I were talking about at Pocono you've made a huge jump but it get to the next jump you can't do it on your own you have to have an alliance with cup resources that is the kind of engineering support that the Sim really makes a difference of how you unload we're working on some things to good to get more resources so hopefully we can um we do a lot with a little that's for sure um but anyway wanted to talk a minute about what do you see when you started racing what do you see what from the time how did you get started racing pretty much like from you getting starting racing to me getting starting racing what was the difference in the path well the difference was I went to a racetrack and got offered a uh a Volkswagen by H long that's car long Dad what's a Volkswagen that's they had a class they called it minock and uh and I know what a Volkswagen is but like it was it a minock that's got is literally a Volkswagen okay the motor the body it had racing tires ran that dude twice bored a uniform had my old helmet uh from the go-kart days um and that's when Carl nuble let me go practice this street stock this 72 Nova that they had had finished putting together and uh you know pretty much man that was at South Boston once I gotten that everything else in my life was second I had to work had to work for a living obviously but uh every free moment it was around that race car until the race car was ready yep so you know driving for people the infield in any racetrack around the country was full of car owners looking for a driver it wasn't a it wasn't apparent most the time it wasn't the car owner and the driver they were car owners that loved racing and filled it cars for people and that's how I got my break with Carl Noble yeah well so my journey obviously was a little different but you know obviously I started racing dirt bikes and then go-karts and then late model stocks and did all that but then when I got this four car four truck opportunity um fast forward a little bit you know I ran a couple truck races back up a little bit we ran a couple truck races in 2012 that was a pretty cool experience State water heaters helped make that happen and you got to run Daytona that was pretty neat it wasn't that I got to race it I didn't have no choice to get to five races you and Jeff story talk me into all that stuff I remember clearly being at the cove and uh I can't remember the gal's name that uh was helping put it together with Mike Harmon hman Mike hman hman he me but you you ought to back up a long way back up a long way you started you started in a class that was similar to Motocross but it wasn't Motocross it was the class below Motocross and you raced that whole summer we raced that mainly that one guy to win the championship and somehow or another he beat you on the last race but that y'all y'all had a compe competitive uh summer of about I don't know 8 to 12 races I I can remember the first race you won getting everything unload y'all getting back and going out to a bar and having a couple beers and coming at home I was so happy for you on the Motocross yeah yeah and then we went from there to go-kart yeah so that was two separate Summers uh and of course that's when uh I think that was about the time I went back with Larry McClure Morgan McClure Morgan McLure so uh yeah I was um Larry Larry roler was helping you some when I wasn't around um yeah so did the go-kart stuff and then we went to late limited late models did that for a while then we did late model stocks and then we ran the truck yep and five races was State yep what state you ran Daytona finished eth I just missed all the Recs with all I did truck wouldn't run but uh I ran the last two laps they were flipping on both sides of me but I tell you man you uh there was something going on with the motor packages back then and so Mike had this motor package and and I can't for a life of remember what where the motors were coming from they would not qualify for one lap they just would not but they were bad to the bone and you wasn't missing anything on motor during the race it was because the the pace would fall off the truck series then isn't what it is now the truck series when I grew up racing it was 10 guys that were your age out there racing now all it is is younger kids and younger guys racing and and there's some good drivers in that field um but when I was racing it was a different ball game it was guys that's been Racing for 30 20 years well I can remember particularly at Charlotte I think that might have been your last race I can't remember but uh I think you finished 11th no I finished 7th you did M well you passed Tai and I think it was Ron horn day in the last Corner coming to the to the checker flag and I was really really uh happy for you and and Mike you know for the kind of for the funding we had and all Mike Mike really did a good job he did he did a good job for y'all yeah to G you the best you can he he's a really him and his whole family really stand up folks we we had uh we had some good runs and had some bad runs too but it taught me a lot and um then that led to the the aead truck and that was a awesome opportunity with Turner Turner and uh went there and um you know we kind of we we had the company out of South Boston helping us and I'll never forget we had the opportunity to go to kbm we went to kbm we went there and met with Rick Ren because the tie there with you and Rick and we met with them and I really L looked up to Kyle at that time yeah and I remember who wouldn't look up to him yeah I I I just remember at that time he would never be there to meet with us we went there two different times we went there two different times and he never met with us and I didn't think much of that and when I went when I went to Turner I felt like their stuff was the best and they were winning and that's why I was like I need to go there and that was that was the best best I knew it was the best stuff and I knew if I got in the best stuff I could show my stuff and went there and we got seven polls we won a race and let a lot of laps and finished Fifth and points I mean it was some good guys in that field I mean Ryan blay finished Sixth and points right me and Ryan always raced good together you sure speeding through a career really quickly you're leaving out a lot of that went on in that year I'm I'm just talking out loud and it it was um it was a lot of different things that that happened that year that got me a lot more opportunities but it was um it was very unfortunate the way it all the way it all ended because I felt like we had something there with me and my crew chief um uh hman and and he had a lot of resources at his at his fingertips obviously as well I mean the resources that that organization had was the best in that series um so it sucked that that ended but I feel like if that wouldn't ended I would have my whole racing career probably would have been different if if that wouldn't ended like it did and the reason it ended like it did was just I ran out of sponsorship when I thought I had sponsorship and that kind of brings me up to what I wanted to talk about today was the difference of Now versus when you raced I feel like that and this still happens for some but it hasn't really happened for me if you run out of sponsorship you're done and when you raced I don't think that it was necessarily as um critical as it is in today's world well son you you going through a lot of time that when I got that phone call was the day y'all were leaving Daytona the Ford truck was the fastest at Daytona and I got that phone call I was meeting with a gentleman right across from the company at the Holiday end that I was going to hire to help promote the sponsor and help carry you to where you need to go and I got that phone call while I was negotiating with him and this is January the next January we're in Daytona Testing is what he's referring to it was five weeks for a Daytona yeah and uh man that was probably the longest three weeks of my life and I stayed in my office for like 17 16 17 hours a day trying to fix it and I couldn't but any anyway well who fixed it and who who gave me the opportunity was Duke Thorson Duke Thorson and pepper yep Pepper Pepper made it happen that we were down there with Duke and Duke really uh Duke really did you a wonderful gesture uh can't never don't ever forget that cuz he was uh really an honorable guy to give you that opportunity yeah but anyway all of it changed you know um I didn't take any sponsorship with me anywhere uh not a single time until later you know but I was I was much more established by then but it was it it was just a complete different eror so the business model has made a complete 180 you know there's I'll just give you an example we were too months late at one of the most well-known race teams and call owners in the cup garage the drivers won a championship and the guy the team manager told me if we' have come to 2 months earlier that could have been your role I'm not going to say who it was because it's not the right thing to do but that's how close we were a numerous times but that is not many it's not many door that were open I can remember Jack Ralph meeting me at the front door uh knowing I was coming to talk about you but but as much as I liked uh Mr Rous Jack it it come down that we didn't have the kind of funding we took sponsors there we had sponsors go places and meet with other potential partners for you just a just a really just a really tough it's just a tough sale it's just a tough sale of the because of the cost so so hey where you at and where are was at I got there because the phone rang and somebody was lucky enough to see me drive a race car you got there and most everybody else got there because they had resources coming with them so that's that's the difference of the business model and it's happening in the cup series and it's going to become a norm in the cup series the way it's starting to look yep yep it uh and I'm I'm lucky to be still racing to be honest um I'm racing now and have a ton of people it's 20 different partners that I have that that helped me and and people that a lot of people don't even know that that helped me try to raise the funding to be able to race and wouldn't be able to race now without the partners that I have and just so lucky that I still can do what I do um and have a couple chances to win but still be a to race every single week um because of that and something I definitely don't want to take for granted but definitely want to try to get where we can be winning more um and it it was like I go back to Indie this week is frustrating because you finally have a good car and don't get anything to show for it but yeah that that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today was just the difference of um your experiences and my experiences there's still a whole lot more to talk about um with you know my career and your career but I just thought today it would be cool to kind of dabble in to a couple different things to talk about but I would say this you know whether it was me my brother Steve Grom Joe neach uh I could I could keep naming that group Robert Presley all all all the guys that that we made it to Bush and then we made to Cup Series we did have people helping us and most most of the time that was family so you know like Mr Griffon spent a lot of time with Steve's career my dad spent a lot of time with my career with Jeff's career you know I spent a lot of time with your career the the the difference is when you get to a certain level it becomes unreachable economically for most of the families and so that's when the sponsorships uh carry on so so you know look you just haven't had the right brakes there are some drivers that's made it purely with talent and there are still some out there what what has changed is what's the norm the because of the ones like in the expend series the vast majority ones in the expin series that are driving cars are bringing resources to the team and there's no question the vast majority of them I would say and they really good cars yeah yeah so you know the business model has changed but look it's like that in anything though and it probably is the world has changed in so look at late model stock I mean late model stock go-karts look it takes none of those car owners that are at the local tracks anymore buying to find who is going to be the next guy to drive their car very few of them exist now they do exist if you want to rent their car but with all that being said you still don't want to be cynical you still don't want to have and show your ability to adjust the showing how much you want it giving it 100% and having some hope y because if you just look at what I'm saying and it's a complete Doom and Gloom and there's no light at the end of the tunnel then you would say just blank it and I couldn't blame you so so we all no matter what we do in life need to look at the positive side work your butt off don't let anybody out work you be honest treat everybody the way you want to be treated and hopefully that will pay off it will pay off in life now whether it pays off in a racing career time will tell but never ever give up the faith right yep Hey You Never Give up the faith no that's right that's right I mean there there there's that's why I still do it I don't I don't do it just to be out there so I'm not giving up that's for certain I've been so lucky and so fortunate to have the partners and the opportunities like I have right now with Jordan and John they believe in me um without them I wouldn't be racing they well a lot of people believe in you just you just you just need that one stabilizing partner that can do a 10 Race deal or something that's what you're missing you're missing that one anchor part partner and it will come man you keep working you keep doing the things you're doing it will come yeah we're close we got so you you're close and then you add of what you got you you're going to be in great shape so it's it's there you just got to keep on working at it and it it's going to materialize yeah that same year while we're talking about it in 2013 I got to run my first exfinity race yep and that's the other car right here beside this truck so the folks at aaad did a lot for me that year they gave me a a boost without that year I don't think I'd be racing right now so they they launched me into the sport it was a shame that it came to an end but I got all those polls and a win ran good and then ran the first xinity race at Kentucky mhm and we finished eighth yeah so that was a pretty cool pretty cool experience too so was like bam I come right on the SC scene I'm running good in trucks I get one exfinity opportunity I finish 8th um running against some of the best guys out there so that year I'm thinking this is going to be pretty easy I'm just going to get in something else and just keep running good because I'm good at this I can do it and then then it just from that point on after the we lost a ride and thank the Lord for Duke Thorson he kept without Duke I wouldn't been racing he gave me a full-time ride yeah well back back the difference is back in my day what you had done in the four truck and then just capitalized on the one exfinity opportunity the phone would have wrong and you would have had a really good ride moving up that's what have happened you mean it like move up to the exity series that that would that was what would have happened in the time that I was running the bush card in the 90s yeah you you had shown your stuff the phone would have wrong to be honest I think what hurt me the most was the couple guys that I was racing with Larson was in that race I was teammates with him blay won the race um my age at that point there was nowhere to go all the cup rides were slammed full there was nobody making any moves everything was locked down and then if you look at it the last five to six five to three years now they're starting to do more of that and they're putting these younger guys in those opportunities faster and I believe that if I I the timing would have been a little different it would have helped me for some opportunities and I think I really think that that everything's about timing going to the right car being with the right crew chief the right team all of it is timing and I feel like at that time the sport was in a very weird place it was when the economy was kind of all over all the rides were full it it was just it was a weird situ it was a weird four or five years after that and now all of a sudden the new cars came the new TV deal they're starting to do more developmental stuff they're they're moving younger guys in cup cars so um I really think that that that didn't help help my case maybe I I I I I can't recall but like you said it's not over I'm I'm about to be 32 years old so I've still got time the goal is to to get in a cup car car that that's my goal that's what I want to do is to be in a competitive Cup car one day I don't think that's we just did a thing with MAF TV that kind of told my story a little bit that aired and and I said it on that interview and I'll say it now that's my goal I want to win be able to win a cup race I've won in the other two series I'd like to win in the cup car that would be pretty cool to win in all three Series so that's the goal and hopefully um in the next couple years we get some opportunities to to get keep rejuvenize my my career look I went through a difficult time I we talk about some of this stuff but I went years without driving I didn't race much for a while I ran three or four races six races five races and we can talk about all that another time but the point is I'm I've rebuilt my career I won last year we've had a tough year this year but we've built a lot of great partners and things are still up and we're not giving up and hopefully you know everybody that's listening this can be part of the journey and um hopefully in a couple years we're we're talking about talking about what we're talking about now well you got to make plans and get a good resources around you to help you with those plans and what happen in the past and pass I wouldn't dwelling on any damn old talked about enough uh you got good partners and you know there a lot more there's a lot more good expended cars this year than there was last year at least four to five so you know where y'all are running right now is where you expect it to run anything above that overachieving so you know y'all y'all just got to keep your nose to the ground keep trying to uh improve how you take the car to the track with the limited amount of practice and and capitalize on the best of it and keep working and making sure your partners are happy yep yep so it's not complicated I know that's yeah all easier said than done but you do a good job at it man you uh you know all of your partners are always very complimentary of how you overd deliver particularly the things that you can control we got some good stuff we're working on um I hope everybody enjoyed this podcast and some of the discussions I know we talked about a couple different things and we sped through a couple things but we're going to dive more into some more stories with Dad more stories with me but this one I really just wanted to talk about a couple different things I'm about to head off to vacation and you've got some work to do with Crossroads so you got to go get some uh good suntan and come back rejuven rejuvenize and go have a few days off man yeah need it so appreciate it everybody