Is A.J. Epenesa on BILLS roster BUBBLE + Which players should move up depth chart?

what is up bills Mafia welcome into a Monday episode pre-recorded of shout at Buffalo Bills football podcast of course brought to you by Tops Friendly Markets the best burger deals in town are over at tops and it is the place to pick out the juiciest most delicious burgers in town from beef and turkey to chicken and veggie you'll find something for everyone taste the flavors of the world with unique toppings and twists on the classic burger tops world of burgers is yours to explore what is up Ryan tablet we gotta look we're sneaking one in before you uh hit the road here on Tuesday that's yeah that's right sneaking in one heading to Arizona for two weeks here to see some family but uh don't worry Bill's Mafia we're still gonna have you covered with live episodes of shout we're gonna have you covered with articles on syracuse.com and NY up and of course our fans over at the shout Insider mat are still going to get a plenty of Matt Perino and Ryan Talbot yeah 7165 528-6727 send us a text sign up for a two-week free trial 3.99 a month after that all right Ryan let's get right into it because both of us went back and watched the Buffalo Bills versus the Indianapolis Colts and there's Indian ass what excuse me excuse my French maybe the Colts played like that at times uh but that's beside the point a couple of takeaways here that I kind of really wanted to get into and maybe shift the conversation a little bit forward you know you look at AJ app and NASA and David questenberry two guys that have been on this roster that I think going into training camp were probably guys that were penciled in on 53-man rosters but should they be I think that's a a valid question to start maybe diving deeper into and you know we made an appearance on the uh Jay Spence the king his podcast over on Buffalo Rumblings this afternoon and we were talking a little bit about AJ apanessa and Boogie Basham with an arrow up we talked about that on the show a couple days ago what could it mean if the bills do decide to go in a different direction at this spot at the depth of their Edge rusher position because there's a lot of guys buying for you know what I think is a lot of spots but if the bills decide to maybe keep a little bit less that could leave somebody on the outside looking in I want to zero in specifically on a Vanessa I want you to talk about what you think he's done to this point including training camp and what he has to do to secure a roster spot over the next couple weeks yeah you know at training camp I actually liked what I saw from AJ panessa before the pads came on after the pads came on he was making a few Splash plays here and there getting his hands up on passes uh getting some some pressure so I liked what he had done this summer leading up into Saturday's game against the Colts the problem was he pulled the Houdini and he absolutely disappeared Matt he was on the field but he wasn't doing much and yes limited reps limited rotational uh spots for him the way they were moving plays around but that's not what I need out of AJ app and Essa if I'm trying to say this is a guy that absolutely deserves a spot on this roster so that's what I've seen out of him and his path to making this roster is simple make a play or two in these last two preseason games play like your job is depending on it because it might and we've talked about this he's on a rookie deal I don't think the bills just part ways with him and release him but they might be open to Trey leading him to a team that is defensive and needy that says hey this is a guy that had six and a half sacks one season ago playing only a small fraction of these snaps at defensive end so there's always a few teams that are going to be out there thinking he's a good fit for our system we like what he did last year um but for him to stick here in Buffalo Matt it's it's pretty simple to me he needs to make plays in these final two preseason games like one of the things I started thinking about with apanessa is if the bills arrive at a place where they don't want to risk maybe Shaq Lawson and they you know cutting him and trying to get him into the practice squad which I think is a viable you know route to take and one where you know if you go back just a couple months to when he was a free agent I mean Shaq Lawson people weren't you know banging down his doors and I think his value is much higher inside the building in in Orchard Park than it is maybe around the league you know a move on epineessa to cut him or trade him to me could be an indicator of what they're seeing from Boogie Basham and I asked Sean McDermott about specifically yesterday about Boogie Basham and the fact that I started this Locker uh on Saturday after that game and asked him about like how great does this feel you had a sack tackle for a loss like this is a big time performance with a guy not only fighting for like a role like a pronounced role but you know in in some setting if he has a bad preseason could be fighting for his roster life and it was ho-hum man like it almost felt like it was just part of a day's work like he wasn't too high wasn't too low and so I asked Sean about that and Sean was like that is part of a player leveling up right like starting to get better starting to believe in themselves confidence is coming along He also mentioned specifically that Boogie Basham Improvement in playing uh with his Pad level at the appropriate place and you know getting lower getting more physical and so I think with that in mind if Boogie is continuing to ascend up a move on epinester doesn't necessarily have to even be a move because of epinesis play but because you want to give a larger opportunity or role to Boogie Basham yeah you want to get a player like that that's leveling up his Sean McDermott kind of put it uh in the case of Boogie bashment and I feel like Boogie Basham brings a little bit more in terms of Versatility Matt you can line them up at defensive end but he's also big enough that you can put him in on the inside play some some snaps at defensive tackle uh depending on the kind of looks you're trying to give so the fact that he brings a little bit more to the table and we've talked about this regardless of the position the more you can do on this team the better and Basham coming in making plays in the preseason coming off the edge making stops against the Run knowing you can kick him inside and play him there too for a few snaps per game I think that this really could unlock him and give him a potentially bigger role in this defense while we're here before we flip over to the other line like what is the Shane Ray situation for you at this point like I think there's a lot of work to be done for him to put really apply pressure for the depth of the roster like I think him being out of the league for as long as he was I think that there is a really easy path to the practice squad for him and I think that that just makes more sense 100 makes more sense he's been in the CFL the last two years he was played with wrist injuries before that Matt so like you said it's not teams that are necessarily going to be beating down the door to bring in a Shane right because they weren't before the bills signed him uh so I think that you use one of your veteran practice squad spots on a player like Shane Ray continue to get him acclimated to your system see if he continues to show Improvement and he's always a player that you can Elevate on a given week he's someone that if an injury happens which in today's day and age in this in the NFL there's always injuries to kind of monitor he's someone that has live game reps and a lot a lot of them under his belt from his time in Denver so you might feel good after a few more months of learning the system on the practice squad when you elevate him that he could be an impact player for this team you know we saw the first left tackle Off the Bench uh in this game was Ryan vandemark which I think surprised some people and you know I want to pair this we mentioned questenberry off the top had a really underwhelming training camp um in my eyes but interestingly enough I mean you know Pro Football Focus you know graded every offensive lineman and actually gave David questenberry A Plus grade uh in pass block and gave him a 78.3 for the game against the Indianapolis Colts only three or four offensive linemen had better grades Ryan Bates Richard garage we'll get to in a moment Kevin Jarvis and who I think is the big winner now going back and watching the the game osiris-torance who was absolutely brilliant for what I think expectations were for him going in and what he comes out looking like in this game shout out to our good buddy Chris chapasso he put out a good uh Tick Tock video on a couple of the snaps uh the all 22 on Cyrus Torrance and you know you just see a lot of wins not a ton even in run block I mean I thought he held up pretty well in pass protection over the course of the game that's a big uh you know spot for him we could talk about that but with questenberry a question that's come in from the shout Insider group quite a bit over the last couple of days has been what is the path to the roster for guys like Richard garage and Ryan vandemark if one of them Elevate themselves enough over the course of the next couple of weeks even maybe even a tommy Doyle to maybe unseat a David questenberry and you know I think Richard garage is probably the best place to start this is an undrafted free agent guy that really showed well for himself against the calls yeah listen Richard garage was outstanding I went back on Sunday morning and I rewatched every single uh offensive snap for the bills in that game focusing just in on garage and there was uh PFF said he gave up no pressures I thought he was beaten on one play uh inside move was used against him but obviously Barkley got the ball out it didn't result in a negative play maybe they felt like uh he had enough room to kind of pass the ball that it wasn't a legit pressure but he was phenomenal Matt now my only thing about garages that was against their team players uh that was in the second half so if you like the tape of garage which I would like to believe the bills coaching staff would after re-watching that game I want to see him get bumped up to the playing with the second team players at some point against the Steelers this upcoming week in the preseason I want to see what he looks like against guys that maybe aren't going to be starting for Pittsburgh but I have a legit chance of making their 53-man roster does he hold up is as well against players like that because you need to have more than just a few reps against the third team squad to really uh prove that you are worth keeping on a 53-man roster now garage is a developmental Talent on the practice squad 100 I would make him a priority as long as he clears waivers if the bills do uh release him so I like his game a lot real quick on uh vandemark real if he does make this roster at any point I'm going to refer to him as RVD little little wrestling reference there uh with Ron I'm sorry put them in timeout for a moment that was terrible uh horrible I'm just kidding it was great listen people like when I put you in timeout and I'm bringing you back because I thought that was awesome people gave me a hard time because I was too hard on you for the Bisquick joke which I actually love but I just wanted a little bit of Comedy relief RVD dude that's great yeah little little uh wrestling reference but the thing about vandemark is I think a lot of fans saw him with the second team at left tackle and he held up very well there he he truly did when he came back out later in the game at right tackle his past protection really struggled uh he gave up a lot of pressures he he was the responsible party for at least one sack that Barkley took in that uh the win so one side completely stronger than the other which makes me think that I'm not sure either of these young guys have a path to the 53 right now in terms of bumping a question Berry off the roster uh but question berries versatility isn't necessarily is needed anymore which you and I have talked about they have a lot of guard options they're pretty deep there the fact that you could play guard and Tackle last year I think really helped him out a lot now I think the bills solely have to look at him as a tackle option first and and mainly possibly your Swing Swing tackle right and I think Brandon shell held up pretty well I thought that um garage was better in pass Pro but I also think shell played against better competition so that probably feeds into all of it it's interesting I'm looking at the numbers here uh the bills surrendered against the Colts according to PFF eight pressures three of those were allowed by Ryan vandemark and uh he gave up a sack like buttker gave up a sack and you'd mentioned wasn't great for Ike and again he's still working his way back so there's going to be some of that going on for him as well but I think he's definitely could be heavily on the roster bubble but five total pressures Allowed by Edward shell broker mance and bucker three individually for vandemark and I think it's a lot to put on the plate of a second year udfa guy and obviously he signed with I believe it was the Colts as a udfa they ended up cutting them or the bills ended up uh claiming him off waivers maybe I I can't remember the details off it but he's been with the bills now for almost a full season and young player inexperienced player and I think asking him to do both part of that is this in the assessment like can you do both can you play Both Sides like we're going to kind of throw you in the the deep end of the pool and I think him not doing well at right tackle is notable but it's also notable that he did well at left tackle and maybe he becomes your um staple backup at that spot because Brandon shell has run pretty much at right tackle all um spring or all spring and all summer yeah and there's something to be said about coming out of your your break and things like that at the snap from one side to the other we've heard players say it's not as easy as some people think because of that process itself um so maybe he is just more of a pure left tackle for this team and I think that the you know the coaching staff the front office would be perfectly fine with vandemark as a left tackle option backup depth whatever you want to call it as long as he continues to put up good tape in that position he was an interesting Prospect after going undrafted 20 plus teams made an offer to him as a udfa he chose the Colts didn't stick with them he was with the bills uh for the majority of last season on the practice squad signed that Futures and Reserve deal so I you know you had an idea that the bills liked what they saw from him in in their year developing him but he might be another player that needs at least one more year of seasoning whatever you want to call it uh before he's maybe ready to take on such a big role yeah vandermark did uh had 34 snaps at right tackle and 18 snaps at left tackle so he played quite a bit um and they got a good long look at him and so I'll be interested to see what they do with him in games moving forward little note that I want to throw in here too latavius Murray seventh highest pass blocking grade of any player he had uh 15 uh 15 uh snaps offensive snaps only one uh blocking snap uh according to or five pass blocking snaps um according to PFF so just a little interesting nugget that's going to be part of what makes like elevates his value yeah yeah I mean anytime that you can come in and you can protect your quarterback you can block uh if there's pressure coming it's going to help you a lot we've talked about how physically is and you know I think Murray found the Fountain of Youth at some point in his career because he's one of the oldest players on this roster but you would never guess at looking at him watching the way that he runs watching the way that he moves on a field uh he had a great audition and again I say audition but I pretty much have his name in Sharpie at this point along with Damien Harris and James Cook is their their lead back to be kind of this three-headed monster with cook leading the way but like you just said Murray there's a role for a player like Murray to help block to catch the ball out of the backfield uh you're not going to give every single snap to cook over the course of the season and a veteran like Murray has proven over the course of his career that he can really contribute when called upon um all right I want to switch gears here a little bit and one thing that I don't think we've talked enough about in this backup quarterback conversation that I wanted to sprinkle in here really quick is like I know that there's been this dramatic overreaction or or reaction I should say not overreaction to Kyle Allen's struggles and we've documented it here on the show and I think part of it is I I went back and I watched him talk uh after the game and I I came away impressed with how calm cool and collected he was at the podium even after a performance which I think most people were saying wasn't good and I I just think that inside the building they're taking a completely different approach to the preseason than maybe the evaluation has been on the outside media and fans because he's going through everything in this offense for the first time and there's gonna there's baked in I think a lot of mistakes that are probably gonna happen bad throws bad reads you know bad um you know you know not seeing things develop quick enough and making a a timely decision those are all going to happen and so I think like what he's doing is compiling a bunch of different experiences in this offense running this offense as he learns it to be better prepared for the season I understand the apprehension going into the year with Kyle Allen based on some of what we've seen but I also think there's the potential to be for him to be a completely different version of himself in this offense in October and in November than he is right now just based on on the time understanding the offense yeah we've talked about this man on camera off camera if the Bills ever lose Josh Yale and it doesn't matter if it's Kyle Allen Matt Barkley whoever it is the the team's most likely going to be in trouble and that's League wide not just in Buffalo most teams don't have quality backup play that you can depend on long term but in terms of Kyle Allen himself there's reasons why the bills view him or viewed him as their number two quarterback going into the preseason or after free agency he has more armed Talent than Barclay I know Barkley completed a lot of passes but you put some of those throws against the first team defense I think those throws might end up getting intercepted in some cases are deflected batted whatever uh more Mobility which is what you need and and like you said there's something about getting acclimated to the system where in a few months time whether he's had zero reps of live game action in the regular season or not he's gonna have the preseason that he can depend on training camp and he's going to feel a lot more comfort in the overall system just being in the meeting room listening back to what Josh Allen is saying about his performance on a given week it's going to come with time but fans expecting the bills to have some kind of fantastic option waiting in the wings it's just not going to happen based on the way that they pay backups in free agency uh the way that they were looking for someone at a certain price point I didn't think last year Case Keenum was a great option be quite honest so you know for every Mitch trubisky who maybe could have come in and held his own for a game or two you're usually going to get a quarterback that might surprise you from time to time but realistically uh can't necessarily right the ship if he's taking over long term yeah and like one of the things I've really kind of stood back from a distance and kind of appreciated is the situations that the Jets find themselves in you know bringing in an Aaron Rodgers and now having a a high draft pick and Zach Wilson that gets a chance to kind of learn from one of the best I do think that that's kind of intriguing like you know one of the questions that we got in the subtext that we wanted to highlight here is what's this what's our stance on the bills maybe drafted to QB next year to essentially be qb2 over the next four years and I thought that was really interesting and even like a you know Jay Spence brought up when we were on his show about maybe even going out and trading for a Malik Willis somebody that you know has some athletic traits bringing him in and maybe like letting him kind of develop behind Josh Allen and be you know a version if he ever gets a chance to play then then maybe the bills can flip him for in a trade to kind of get somebody else on and kind of play that whole game I'm not against them drafted I think the one missed that they had was that Jake Fromm never seemed like a true fit for what you'd want to line with Josh Allen like he doesn't have any of the traits uh you know I almost feel like I believe his name is Malik Cunningham that's the kind of style of player that I would kind of Chase to try to pair with Josh Allen that could do some of the similar things maybe not the same arm talent but the ability to kind of move the ball that you kind of you know School them up on some of those pieces like the design runs that are part of the Bill's offense yeah I I called Jake Fromm the anti-allen in terms of his skill set he was based on anticipation and timing he didn't have the arm strength the mobility uh it was an odd fit for them when when they took him but in terms of drafting a quarterback to kind of be the number two option for this team on a rookie deal for you know three four years uh I'm not against it I don't want the bills obviously using a day one or a day two pick on a quarterback but if early on day three there is a quarterback that has traits that this coaching staff likes that they've met with that they feel could uh really be someone that could play in a game or two in a year's time uh be that quality backup that maybe you could trade away in a few years for a draft pick you know like a Jimmy Garoppolo situation where sometimes you get someone that plays well in the preseason and draws enough interest where you can trade them away at some point in their career and kind of start all all over again I'm not against that at all it's just a matter of finding the right Prospect and bringing them in and realizing that as a rookie you'd probably want to have again a Matt Barkley type is your qb3 because who knows how long it's going to take a rookie to really get acclimated to this system feel comfortable in it and you don't want to throw them out to the Wolves if something were to happen to Josh Allen uh during the year or something like that so it would also be some patience on the side of the fan base saying you know yes we did bring this player in to be the number two quarterback there's that train uh but it might take a little bit more time than what some realize we got a really cool message from one of the shout Buffalo Bills uh text insiders I believe it was yesterday came from Lindsay she said uh this update Chat thing is awesome I've come to depend on it I love that I don't have to use social media as my go-to source for the bills info I'm looking for the facts insights opinions without the drama from Dolphins fans and tourist fans that alone is worth 10 times the cost of a mission LOL come give us a try come join uh the shout text Insider group we are putting all of our energy into it you get a two-week free trial just to see what it's all about see if you want to hang out afterwards 3.99 a month after that it is 716-528-6727 send us a text complete the process you are in and we're going to bring you all of our insights and Analysis over the next couple of weeks as we move towards that final 53 um little update out of Orchard Park before we get out of here yesterday uh Tommy Doyle and DJ Dale of avoided any serious injuries Sean McDermott said that both of them just suffered contusions Tommy Doyle was actually out on the practice field which is a really good sign elianku I did not see him out at practice so we'll continue to track that uh where maybe he was but the bills are from a health perspective obviously the Bernard situation is not ideal Damien Harris being out not ideal but I think you know as both of those guys work back and maybe you can get them into a healthy spot before the start of the season the bills overall I think are in a pretty good spot at this stage yeah absolutely in a good spot right now again you mentioned yes Bernard who had been in the mix to be the starting middle linebacker suffers a hamstring injury but it sounds like something that he could be back from sooner rather than later Damien Harris has been nothing but positive reports when we've spoken with Sean McDermott so nothing major at this point which is a great sign with the regular season just a few weeks away oh man the regular season is coming up I mean it's the end of summer and you know everybody's thirsty and you can quench your thirst for savings right now at Tops Friendly Markets get five dollars in cool cash one point for every one dollar you spend on the brands that you love through September 2nd Pepsi Mountain Dew polar Gatorade Tim Hortons Duncan body armor pure leaf everything that you love go and buy some of it at tops ask your cashier to redeem your points for a coupon offer your next shopping trip it is heating up for summer savings over at tops all right Ryan I think that's gonna do it final thought final thought Bill's Mafia stick with us we'll have you covered a few times a week here with shout we'll have you covered on our shout Insider text group and you know across our uh websites syracuse.com NY up.com with all your bills news and needs all right everybody that's it for us we'll see you on Wednesday take care everybody