Should Dallas Stars defenseman Miro Heiskanen switch sides? | DLLS Stars Podcast

Intro hey everybody on today's episode of the DLS Dallas Stars podcast we are going to get into a rather I think passionate debate about the best player on the Dallas Stars we also have the whole crew again on a Tuesday and we will get into not only if Miro should be on his left but a little College hockey there's a lot of college fans on this panel we'll get into that a notable Dallas star has hung up his skates and much much more that's today's podcast but first here's this [Applause] [Music] hey Sam what happened last week on the show who knows check it out we had the preview of Sam saying here's what happened and nothing no wasted a good talent here's the good news he can use it to tomorrow because nobody saw it today I have no idea what that means but I I didn't know I thought this was a hockey show it is like cently not there's that emoji where your brain blows up but he is forever tied in with the Dallas Stars because of we could have had him 14 years ago the [Music] 2010 Tuesday September 10th 2024 the DLS Dallas Stars podcast thanks for joining us Sean is here today his last appearance of the week unless something magical happens LS Sam magic myself magic well you know we could say emergency but it doesn't have to be a bad up two minute warning ohy [Music] got we got a happy birthday sing baby go we're gonna be here [Laughter] okay happy birthday to you happy birth to you rookie happy birthday dear happy birthday to [Music] you is handling the birthday spanking oh lovely the fireball right he's already got it here how about this what's up how's it going we got many of the DLS Mavs podcasts we have our general manager Ben and come on come on come on let's go cat C our head of production cat birthday today as well that's right there's two September 10 on our our cast and crew already which is ridiculous that's awesome back hockey hocky hock love it well we'll keep the uh Brookie out guys if you want a piece of brownie or cookie Sean we know where your address is but that's going to be tough well thank you very much everyone that was very nice kind kind of a cheap way to get their faces on the number one hockey podcast in the country isn't it well you know everybody wants to be us that's beautiful I was just going to say the uh the intro opens that our producer John is doing is actually really fun for us because every day we get to see ly go I don't remember saying that 24 hours later so I gotta admit I don't do you remember glazing over during the numbers math math and taxes talk yeah that I remember it because I that's right about where I start going to sleep because I don't I don't get it I just screens get too busy for me you know like the lines where he's doing them sideways or whatever W that confuses everybody awful we'll just deal with it's good most people are listening they don't have to watch it yeah you know so yeah well we're going to have to do some more watching today because we have some graphics to go over because to me one of the big talking points that probably is not going to change anything but I think it's something we should debate is the Which side should Miro Heiskanen play? Stars best player now you could argue me if you want I think it's Meo hinan is there an argument there maybe but probably not is playing on his weak side now in the NHL many of you already know that coaches love to have defenseman play on the side they shoot right shots on the right left shots on the left there are multitude of reasons why that's a good thing and we could we should go right to our resident Stanley Cup champion as to why it's easier for defenseman to be on their strong side than their their weak side because I can explain some of it but it's better to hear it right from the horse's mouth well I will say there is a positive uh for me playing on your offsite uh defensively because we really try to teach players young players especially now to use their reach and use a long stick and so you get stick on Puck as much as you can so if you come down your offside so I'm left-handed typically my top hand it's supposed to be you know my top hand would be on you know up my right hand so when he comes down my right side if I'm playing the opposite side I can use a longer reach and so I I have a stick on Puck sooner as he gets to the blue line and try to keep them away from there make a little bit more to defend otherwise you try and you're strong you're reaching across your body that's really the only positive for me but I think it's just the way you're able to see the ice and you pick up pucks on your forehand typically um but again you know there the thing about playing your offside for a guy we're talking about Miro and some of the good players is they get the puck into the middle of the ice more often and quicker so they can distribute the puck left to right a little bit easier for them the the where I always had and I I had a hard enough time playing my normal side much less play the offside and early on I did play play the offside and my partner was Larry Robinson thank god um but the pro the what would happen with me all the time is you think you need a little bit more time and what you do is you end up drifting closer to the wall and when you get closer to the wall and you get the puck you don't have a lot of options left and you kind of limit your options so you know the the good players like mirl when he comes around the back of the net and if he cuts up and gets in the middle of the ice a little bit sooner then he can go either left or right so I can I can understand that and again we've seen him play as often side but we both kind of talked about this in the past I I think he's I don't know why I would think he'd be a better player on his on his strong side it's easier keeping Pucks in in the offensive zone that defenseman or people are trying to rim them out and you're on your backand you don't have as much time on the offensive blue line so I I'm I guess there's a lot of pros and and and cons to it but but I think if you can if you can play your strong side I think it's ideal is it harder let's use Meo as an example is it harder for him on the right to get a puck that's wrapped around the boards in the offens zone or to go back in his own end and try to regroup andak it would be Puck Setter if he's on his offside and he's going back to the puck he's on his forehand he gets coming around the wall so but then the other side of that is my back is to everything you know I'm I'm kind of facing everybody's behind me so he can come around the wall and he can keep it on his forehand but I just think that I think you're just better off playing your strong side in those situations but but again good players adjust and they adapt so um I'm telling you there are some coaches that and I've heard them say this they wish all of their Wingers could play the the opposite sides and mainly for pucks that are coming around that they can come back they can pick the puck up on their strong hand they don't have to turn and kind of see what's going up ice pick it up on your backand so different positions so you know ask the Europeans there's a lot of those guys that are you know are all playing on their offside for a reason but the ice is bigger and they have more time they love cutting in on their strong side to shoot for well shooting you have a better shooting angle if you're a righty like me you're on the left you cut in you have that whole angle the one time for passes coming across on the left side you can do where it's a lot harder on your strong side um there's sort of a mixed balance on the the half wall stuff because as the puck rims around if I'm on the left my forehand stick blade is against the boards so I'm looking at but my back is to what's coming at me and so I can't see very much now of course really good NHL players are probably checking their shoulders a little bit quicker and they can make that pivot faster Sam didn't I say that facing the wrong way I just want to make sure I'm just just sort reiterating it my had here is that that I look at the list of the I more Fireball after this explanation no no no so let's let's put up the first graphic here because this is I think there's a lot more to this the way that we kind of anticipate the Dallas Stars no not that one the other one yeah yeah that's we'll get to that one in a second thank you John that's all right he's gonna take a minute but the way we sort of anticipate the way the Stars Blue Line might look which is uh Harley and hkin and as the you want to call it their top pairing I think it is with Harley on the left and Miro on the right that's what they did all of last year um then you have or most most of last year Harley didn't start with him at the beginning of last season but by the end of the year that was a pairing and then Lindell is in that second pairing probably with Matt Dumba we don't know that was Chris tanv last year then your third pairing is wide open right now is it Brendan Smith who might be your seven but playing is cuz he's left-handed he can play Both Sides is it leushin where's list in that mix they've got a little bit of a different thing situation now remember last year it was Harley Lindell and Suter down the leftand side and so well there's the ones they signed that's sort of it but that's okay we'll get to it just keep flipping boards there lot ofic lot might be in a different segment John but we'll get there so we had this discussion and I understand why Miro plays on his right and I'm going to say that I think he should be on his left and I don't think that's going to happen I agree but he's on his right because he is the best option on the right hand side of the Dallas Stars right now even though it's on his weak side when you're a number one defenseman you're a number one defenseman left or right but but you're right I well he's going to be right um I but I don't know I mean who knows I mean they've got a couple righties can they play the minutes can they play against top lines I think it's all experimental right now um but I do think also that you're probably going to see that paired together to start the season and they can they can play around with it so here's the thing L this might be completely random but Meo had a great year last year and his numbers went up in almost every area his possession was 61% above like 53 he had uh nearly half the giveaways he had in previous Seasons he had less fewer than any other year including the shortened season is that just that he's just getting better and if he was on his left those numbers would be even better or is it just showing that he's adjusting to this role that's what I would say he's adjusting I think he's adapted to to being out first off he had to be open and take it in the right way when he did get moved now Sean may know this you may know this did he play the right side much before he got and was playing pro I don't know did he did he play a lot on his offside and he it was an easier transition for him no idea or is he just a world class player yes he is he's a world class player um and that I was actually going to ask those and I figured one of you two guys would have those numbers and so it says that mural's fine over there yeah um yeah so it I guess it's a good problem for there them to have if they have to get hard once he signs and get them back there playing hopefully he's starting game one of this regular season at least um because they are a good pair we know and I well I I feel we're going to see where this thing goes as they have to tweak partners and how they're going to put these guys together last week we talked about I think it was last week in fact I could probably look it up that's beside the point we did the NHL's 20 top 20 defenseman we talked about the position rankings amiro came in I believe it was number five if I'm not mistaken and yeah he was of those top 20 and I'm this is an open-ended question because I don't know the answer but I I think I do and Sean we'll go to you here any of those top 20 play on their offside primarily besides Meo right and that's kind of my point like kale marar number one Quinn Hughes two Victor Hond three Roman Yosi four miral five they're top five forget the other 15 for now they're all being set up to play on their strong side with finding some to play with them and that's again I'm not saying what the stars are doing is wrong it's worked quite well I'm just saying that it seems like all these other Norris Trophy candidates are being slotted in on their strong side on the top defensive unit and they're figuring out who's the best partner to play with them many of those minutes can can I can I Loop this in real quick to something that luds brought up earlier because you talk about Norris Trophy winners playing on their offs side right or playing on their strong side LS played with Larry Robinson you're both left you were both left shots why was why were you the one that was playing your offside and not Larry do do I don't know if you remember that is that something where it was just that's the way they wanted to do anything just you talk about Norris Trophy winners playing offside playing strong side you played with one and you were the guy that played on his on on on your quote unquote weak side do you remember why it was set up that way with Larry no I I don't remember why it was I I just again I go back to the player himself Sean I mean if you've got the capability of doing that and offensive defenseman for me if you're able to play on your offs side and you're getting pucks at the Blue Line and you can make that one quick move immediately you're on your forehand and so pucks end up getting to the net I mean I think from the power play we I mean it seems like we haven't stopped talking about Joe pavelski here he comes again yeah course you know and you've got the best reason yeah exactly I mean you've got one of the best people ever to play the game in front of the net as far as being able to tip pucks you want mural there to be able to take one step get it even if it comes around the wall there's no Panic for him he he trusts if if it were me you know I'd be putting my whole body in front of it Meo doesn't have that he can just put a stick there he's got the confidence he can stop it drag it to his forehand or make one move to his forehand and he gets it to the net right away so there that's a definite Advantage for me because otherwise you're getting it on your strong sign in the blue line if you try to take the shot right away your angle isn't as good because you're shooting It Off the Wall miral can get it as offsite take two strides to the middle now that angle as far as you know where the puck is coming from is a little bit more difficult for this guy can get it that guy can get it and people can block it a little bit easier is it easier to pick it up on your backhand pull it to your forehand and make that one stride skating forward or is it easier to get it on your forehand pivot your hips and skate to the middle backwards if you've got the hands like these top defensemen do they would rather be on their offside because they can get it make one move and their head is up you already know that otherwise you're skating backwards and you're having to drag it with you or your other option is to get it turn and start skating across the blue line then you've got to Pivot again so I think there's a big Advantage for the guys that are able to pick it up with confid I mean that's the biggest part of this thing is they have the confidence I'm not going to Bobble the puck and a guy like mirl if he does Bobble and it pops out of the Zone he takes two strides and and he's on top the puck usually he's not getting beat going back the other way I want to get to the other side of this which is what we think would it look it would look like if he was with the current crop playing on his left and why we think that might benefit Meo but first we are going to we already did some singing it might be time for Sam to do some more 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here on Friday show one o'clock let me ask a Miro question before we get into the defensive pairings Miro had 73 points two that's allo so keep they're all good he had 73 points two years ago that was Far higher than his other totals he had 54 last year and he actually had more power play time yeah and the Stars scored more goals this year this past year than they did two years ago so it's not like they just exploded and everybody had great stats so my question is is Meo a 73 plus Point guy or was that a one-off season anyone I Sean take that I think we go Sean yeah I mean I think he's I don't think that's a one-off season like he had the what he had the 70 732 years ago 54 this year um I mean Jason Robertson went from what 109 points two years ago to whatever he had last year um I think I think Meo should be a 70 point plus player especially with running running the Stars power play the amount of time he plays like I think that's both normal and realistic um he's a guy who he's never gonna be like Mar of the world but if you're like this Stars team is better if Meo is where he's supposed to be offensively and I think for me and I'm curious of what your guys thoughts are on this like I saw Meo took a nice step in kind of his assertiveness offensively during that 22 23 season it was something where it was like he saw a void and he stepped in and one of the reasons that even the Stars let John kingberg walk when they did was Jim nil even told me this it was part of it was we needed to give like was kind of addition by subtraction we needed to have someone out of the room who was always going to take up the air and the puck so we now need so Meo knows he can take it and I think last year just kind of the way he approached the game we saw Meo step back a little bit to where he was before it wasn't back to 2122 type season or anything like that but I think that's kind of one of the conversations from a Stars perspective he's one of the best defens in the world right there's only so much you can tell him to do but maybe one of the things that Pete dor and his staff have with him is like look you can demand the puck more you can be the guy more you can you can do that and that's the that's the step for me is if can keep do that so I believe I truly believe he can be a 70 point guy per in normal season that's I think that's realistic so he he played almost 60 seconds a game less last year than before that was intentional they were trying to keep him more rested now I think a lot of that time was special teams penalty killing because it was all it was all penalty killing though he didn't kill penalties like the regon so that's not that that I don't count as I don't don't think those things correlate when it comes to to offensive by doing that Sean in the playoffs two years ago he had 12 points in 19 games he had a goal and 11 assists last year in the same number of games he played 19 he had 16 points but he had six goals instead of one and I think that was closer to what he did in the bubble where he had 26 points in 27 games we've seen Meo can take over a playoff series can take over a game and be that Miro look one of his former teammates told me a couple years ago we were watching practice and he dangled the guy and went in and scored just on some practice drill and he said Meo could do that every time he had the puck but he's too much of a team guy that's not his mentality to just you know Puck hog and and go and try to get his points he's trying to to make the team better well let's let's throw up this graphic John because this is sort of a possibility of what could look like if the stars said you know what we're going to play him on his strong side and it's hin again take this with a grain of salt because this is just with the guys they have right now and I could be completely wrong but I had Meo hkin and playing with Matt Dumba on the top pairing Harley with lbushkin and Lindell with lanquist and then Brenda Smith is your seven now you could switch those you could say lbushkin and Sean you had a great piece that you put on our DLS site all dls.com today where you said leushin is perfect as the third pairing defenseman I wasn't necessarily trying to make that I think the Stars would be really happy if Neils lanquist can get himself to a top four roll but luds my big problem here is the three guys on your left hin and Hardley and Lindell and this is goes back to what we were talking about about why Meo has been playing on his right if you think about your depth chart the no top three defensemen are all three guys on the left so well I like the balance of this because you have righty Lefty on three pairings you want the guys that are going to play the most minutes to be playing the most minutes and how do you do that if they're split over three pairings you put miror on the right and put Harley up there with them and that's why they're doing that I I don't you know we we'll see I I don't know if Dumba to right is a number two Offman right I mean you're you're putting that up because Lefty righty honestly I I think dumo might be perfect as the number four on the second pairing Sean do you think he's a number two do I think he's number two no but I do think it's an experiment worth playing around with in the first 20 games or so because I think there if there is if you truly believe there is something else Miro can do when he's fully on his left I think it is worth at least experimenting with him playing with Dumba from time to time I think it's a very situational thing I don't want Matt Dumba playing 22 23 minutes a night you get certain sit I I think you have to be smart in how you deploy it but there are also things about dumba's game that that can fit really well with Meo right Dumba is very much a wild guard he's a guy who like who's going to be aggressive he's going to he skates well enough to make up for some of his mistakes he also is it's he had that one year where we had 50 points but that's a extreme outlier he's not really an offensive Puck moving guy he really is a guy who likes to defer to his teammate there's a lot of things about the way he plays that if you put Miro on his left and you give it a try I could see the chance where I talked about wanting Miro to more assertive with the puck and take control of games he does more of that my one like the reason I like to split Harley and hkin in my mind is because I want to have I want to win 45 minutes a night knowing I've got Harley and Haskin and on the ice for 45 minutes a night that's the way I look at it that was kind of the kingberg and Miro uh thing of having them playing 45 to 50 minutes one of those guys is on the ice yes during that that 50 minutes of the game yeah and that that's to me where I go from this and that's where I I look the Dumba situation where is Matt Dumba should he be on a top pair in today's NHL probably not but from figuring it out and seeing if it helps you unlock other parts of your lineup I think it is worth the experiment so that's the the other thing that I just see that chart where Owen's talking about like I don't know what Owen knows what we don't know about like Nils lunis bought like gift baskets for the coaching staff or something like that because I have no idea like I don't either I like seeing him on that chart over Smith I mean if I see would you have Smith and have list as your seven I mean that I look I say that saying this is not I'm not putting this on the Sleep R saying this is my starting group uh Sean I wanted to add one more thing and throw it at luds and because you and I talked about this a lot the reason why they're here the reason why they've had Meo hkin and on his right so much is not I I'm not putting full blame on the stars now they could try to make a trade figure out a different acquisition to get it but they thought they had it with Steven John's and it was supposed to beo hkin and St John's Lefty righty for a decade and unfortunately we many people that follow the Stars know the Stephen John's story and his his concussions and the the issu issues he had postconcussion symptoms and it's really a shame because he seemed like the perfect fit to play next to Miro yeah but no but okay real quick we're g we can't use that anymore we could have used it two years ago Steven J's last played an NHL game in 2020 I'm just talking about why it was there in the first place I I I I know but we want to talk about excuses for it like we we've in the past it's been like oh they would have had this and they would have had that I think too often we go back and it's been four years Jim has had four years to get somebody else to play on the right side like I I get I get sick of that excuse now and I am obviously as many people know I am I wrote the Stephen John story literally I'm the person that wrote it so I am I truly get where it came from before but right now anytime we use it as an excuse that's like okay Jim had four years to figure this out too so personally I'd rather zubie be over there I think if Sergey zubba was there let's go down that we're going to go down fantasy Road let's go down I mean sure Brian Lee is available and Ray bour and maybe Bobby or yeah hey Sean you you mentioned the the experim with dumb but is it the worst thing in the world if Lindell is playing a little less and just focusing a lot on the penalty kill to me it's not no it's not no it's not no especially after you're going to have to do even more right now because you're figuring out like the Yanni hackin PA loss or L like like that Yanni Haka walk and um we still don't know if Yanni Haka is even going to sign with Toronto based off the meniscus stuff and everything but you are going to rebuild a bit of that penalty kill with guys who are eating three and a half four minutes a game on the penalty kill so hey John throw up that graphic one more time Here's my thought guys this is again me living in a fantasy world if you could move Dumba down to play with Harley leushin down to play with Lindell and go out and sign an $8 million right shot defenseman that could play with Meo that would be the best defensive group in the hockey right now I think that' be the deepest blue light maybe but I don't think they're going to be able to I don't think they have the cap room to do it they'd have to do a lot say you have Fireball on your mug I'm I would like to see Meo hin in with kale marar on the top I think that works I hear interested in the car this is like one of those fantasy shows right no but I know what you're saying I'm trying to say is away from deep I think uh you know if you had Chris tanov still on this team and you could have tan of Dumba and leushin down the right side that would be phenomenal it's not realistic and so that's why even though I'm making this big stand saying he should be on his left we we agree he's probably gon to be play on his right side all year here here's my thing with well first all Sean was talking about with Dumba and if you're playing with mirl you're playing with the best players on your team you've got to get the puck to him is he a good enough puck distributor to get pucks to who he needs to get them to I don't know that yet I don't I wouldn't put him in that category right now but I don't sit there and watch him play every night the other thing about Essa playing on a third pair and talk about power or penalty kill stuff ESS is one of your best defenders do you want him playing against third and fourth liners no I think he should be playing against top two line guys I mean so now otherwise you're putting some of these guys saying that they're a better Defender than than Essa Essa to me has got to be in the top four yeah I'm not and again I think he makes good plays I think he's probably the the strongest of all have been front of the net in the corners for the most part um I think he needs to be playing against top players not fourth line guys I agree to correct me if I'm wrong it's we all agree that usually you put your best player in the spot and you figure it out from there he's in a spot to succeed like we talked about with luds with with your pair with Robinson but the trickle down is just too too big we just talked about it affects Lindell it affects the top pairing who goes on that pair it just doesn't feel like like it feels like if Jim no is like let's do this Meo you're a top left guy then it's like okay but we're we're gonna risk this we're L gonna be down there it's just the trickle down just feels too long to to let it happen that's how I feel and Sean the other thing I would say and we're talking about Matt Dumba a little bit um again whether I did the math right or not my other concern is does he say healthy for the whole year because if I looked at it right and did some math I mean he plays an average of 55 56 games a year so if he's not getting any younger no exactly this is will this be his 12th or 13th year somewhere in that neighborhood so I don't know if he can play up there and play 24 25 minutes a night can he get the puck to the people that he's supposed to get him to the first thing would do again I use this reference with zuie Matt if you give it give it to mirl mirl will find a way he skate it there he'll get it there and then you be that shitthead on the ice because that's what he does he can get under your skin he can finish checks and all that other kind of stuff but again I don't know if he should be out there 24 25 minutes a night against top players on the other team but I guess question at 30 years old this will be his 11th season in the NHL I think 10th full because he came in in 1314 but he only played 13 games that year he played 82 in 1718 with Minnesota and then had some injury issues that caused him to be short for the next three years he played 79 in 2223 so it's almost a full season missing three he's played one full season and then last year he played 58 with with Arizona and then 18 with Tampa after the trade so that's what 74 that's not a full year it's not a full 82 but okay but again that's better than7 Etc I I do think just real quick for just quick clarification sake he was held out of the lineup for about a week by Arizona to get the deal done Arizona was was sitting a bunch of guys throughout so it's of the last two years I mean you if just to answer the health question played 79 two years ago probably would have played about 78 we're talking about miro's played 79 and 71 so if you want to just start poking holes in guys durability over 10 games we we have to just be careful when you're throwing glass when you're throwing stones in Glass Houses so that's just I would bring that up yeah lety the last thing Sean had a great thing in his article where he talked about Dumba playing with Meo could be really beneficial because it could allow Dumba to take those maybe a little extra risk to try to close the gap and and finish a guy make that open Ice hit that he likes to do because Meo skating is so good that if if he miss times it and and now it's a two-on-one you've got Meo behind to defend so it gives him a little bit more leash to to take those risks and try to to end plays before they even happen okay maybe I I'm not gonna go and say miro's the best defender I'm not gonna because I've used mirro in examples with our players and I'm like here is one of the best players in the game and he's still making what I would consider not the correct play on a one-on-one and a two-on-one I don't like the way some of these guys play two-on ons and you guys as goenda to have the confidence once they get down top of the circle hash marks to know that that puck is not coming back across and I I watch goenda goal tender load up on the leg that's against the post on a two-on-one I know they don't trust their defense because they're getting ready to move and I don't think they should have to do that but the game is different AG with that very much and I don't think that we could do a whole segment about old former Stars coaches that wanted the defenseman to throw himself at the putt carrier on a two-on-one forcing the goalie to have to take the pass breakway how awful that is yeah and there there there was a time even when Lindy was here practices and I'm like what the I was talking to James Patrick about I'm like why are we forcing the puck carrier just inside the blo line well the goenda more time to adjust well if he's adjusting against the fourth line guy okay but if you want your defenseman to step up against I don't I don't care what player you're talking about on the top two lines and give him a a wide open shot more time on a break eventually changed it and you know after that because it's just anyway that that's I can go down Ro yeah we we'll do that later at some point it's not the they no longer do the Lindy slide on the on the two-on one anymore which was all right let's talk about sleeper for a minute a sleeper is the best for fantasy football and not just for Fantasy Football for all football and potentially hockey maybe Owen asked about this we we were not sure not sure if they have hockey or not sound like we don't know which is true we don't have hockey we're getting we're getting the goad you have a microphone you're allowed to talk I don't know am I Owen am I allowed to speak on this show who says that I'm the one that Mets this I don't know I feel like you're you've been a little territorial ever since there was a mic but in front of me today anyway sleeper sounds like our producers a little sensitive The Lunatic com will you guys let me talk about sleeper no trying to talk about sleeper here NFL season underway Aaron Rogers threw for over half a yard last night oh there was a football game last night did the Jets win no they did not classic threw for one yard though unlik last year if you listen to me yesterday then you likely moved up a tax bracket because obviously I'm an expert but we're on to week two now Thursday night football this week sleeper's offering the same deal that they offered koua not going to say his last name throw for just one yard tongue of ioa yeah that's what I said uh one time entry up to $20 on your first contest only if you think you have what it takes betting on Tua that's your queue tongue of IO it sounds like it's spell download the sleeper app use the code DLS stars to get up to a $1100 match on your first deposit terms and conditions apply SE sleepers terms of use for details currently operational in over 25 states that number is going to go up soon and I'm I'm going to get it you watch check out sleeper today did I oh and did I win my game last night I don't don't you hav't looked at the scoreboard I figured that that was encouraging enough for you but based on the fact that the Jets lost I'm guessing you did not okay well we're going to have to see because I'm going to next time I'm on the show I'm GNA need you to tell me how my fantasy football team's doing well I'm gonna need you to have a little more Buy in but I will tell you this it's time for you Sean to talk about DLS and some of the things we have coming up including this weekend's coverage I was wondering why I didn't get an an email or a text with her ad read I had a feeling something like this was going to happen so you should check out our show Doc because it in nice highlighted yellow I know but I I expect the you have to look at that more than you look at your fantasy team I do look at that more than my fantasy team um so as since Sam really liked it yesterday what if I told you there was a space where there's wonderful Sports conversation you can talk about movies you can talk about the Rangers you can talk about the Cowboys you can talk about a Mavericks All with some of the biggest Die Hard fans in the Dallas area that's right it exists in the damn Discord we talk about on the show LS will never go there in person but we bring it to him you can be where we get stuff to bring to LS exactly the only way this works though you have to join exactly you have to become a die hard and you also get a great deal on merchandise I believe you get a free t-shirt once a year or something like that see we even got a one see see we get a we got a great graphic look at that and you know what on top of that you get thanks access yeah on top of that you get access green light the microphone this encourages you also get access to like stories like mine today we'll have great interviews with Sam uh Sam will have great interviews with players um I will be up at the Traverse City prospects tournament this weekend we'll have some exclusive stuff from there that's why you become a die hard because what if I told you there's a wonderful place you can be and we'll tell LS all about it thank you Sean uh we're going to talk about Jordy Ben and Nick some news on Nick Robertson and our around the NHL segment in our final one don't forget you can follow us on Twitter I'm refusing to call it X because I'm old and crotchety about it DLS stars make sure you like And subscribe whether you're watching this Live on YouTube watching it later or listening on your favorite podcast streaming platform but right now I want to pose a question to The state of college hockey you guys about the state of college hockey in the US I'm talking about NCAA hockey not the Canadian University system it seems to me that the there's a whole bunch of things we can talk about the trend over the last maybe 10 to 15 years of the college ranks taking older players not just 18 19 year olds H when they come in as freshman and working way up but having them mature more in other Junior leagues and then taking them as 22 23 year olds but to me the big one is also the this shift of nil which is not just affecting college football but it's everything and how it changes the entire College landscape so I'll throw it up to the floor whoever wants to grab this what's the state of college hockey and particularly how it pertains to the NHL using that as one of their Farm systems to sign players into the pros well the I mean the big thing with college hockey right now yeah the big thing with college hockey right now and it's not even the nil stuff it's the transfer portals changed everything that's what I was trying to get at the portal I'm sorry I said that wrong the the transfer portal has changed everything it's effectively turned smaller uh schools from non-power conferences into minor league teams for the top schools let's use like Matthew Wood for example um Matthew Wood was a first round pick for Nashville went to Yukon as an 18-year-old played at Yukon as an 18 and 19 year old and did pretty well yukon's the only place that gave him was willing to give him playing time as an 18-year old that's why I picked there does pretty well and now I believe he I can't remember whether he went to Minnesota or Wisconsin but basically then transferred to a big 10 program those are two very different programs yeah Minnesota Minnesota I feel like that was something ly would say no I think I think it's Minnesota yeah it's Minnesota okay so yeah transferred to a big 10 school after putting in time at a smaller school that was the only one that basically gave him a chance to play as an 18-year-old um we see it's Chang the way how how teams build out their goal tending depth in klege hockey the goalie who I'm drawing a blank on his name right now but the third goalie for the US team at World junor last year the reason he went to Maj the major Junior route was because all of the college teams that were going to recruit him told him well instead we're waiting to see if a senior's going to enter the transfer portal and so it's it's really changed we see it in football we see in all these other sports hockey has a little bit of nil money I know I talked to an agent the other day who was just figured out like a small nil deal but it was only like $10,000 or something like that um and so it's the transfer portals open SE was it Jacob Fowler or was it Trey Augustine no it was the Third String Goalie um Jacob Fowler is goal at bcone the so the third one was Sam Hill yeah Sam he's OHL Barry Colts yeah yeah Barry Colts gu plays with Emil play plays with EML Heming and a couple other stars prospects actually as well um so I will watch go I'll go watch Barry play a little bit this year for that reason um the other thing about college hockey too and this the big Collision point is we're running into the eventual spot where will players with CA who played in the CHL the Canadian hockey league the major junor get eligibility in the NCAA and that's where we're getting closer to because um and it's not going to be the big names that make it happen essentially at some point and I've talked to a couple agents about this someone who has played four years of CHL hockey is not going to have really a pro future that's going to be the person who's going to file a lawsuit probably against the NCAA at some point and be like I was an amateur why did I lose my my status for this so like college hockey has at huge Crossroads coming up um I'm gonna let Sam talk right now so he can get us back on track yeah no I was just gonna say the same thing there there is a there is a lawsuit uh Ryland Masterson filed a lawsuit he played two exhibition games for wins or Spitfires in 2022 and they're not allowing him to play college hockey exhibition preseason games so that is something that's definitely going to happen so NH or college hockey players can currently receive nil money getting paid to play college hockey but he has been deemed in eligible from playing college hockey because he was possibly under a paid contract for an exhibition game and they weren't they don't technically pay either they they give them like the money for expenses and things like that but it's just the way they look at it is that because NHL teams can send guys down to CHL as well so like a draft pick technically can play but so here's the question Sean they can do that right let's say there's an NHL guy that can get pulled down to the to the CHL but also NHL guys go and play in the World Juniors and they allow these guys to play in the Juniors and then go back to college 2o so what the the question is why and I think that that reason that is going to be answered is because there's no reason I think that that they should be allowed to yeah the reason the NCAA looks at the CHL the OHL the Q the W the reason they look at them as Pro leagues is because players on pro contracts can be assigned to play and work there so when Logan stankoven was playing for for cam loops right he was a Dallas Stars employee already he was getting money from the Dallas Stars to to play hockey already and that's where he he was doing his work even though it was on the junior level and his contract eventually slid so that's why the NCAA looks at these Junior leagues as Pro leagues because part of the league has players who are paid to be there and that is the that that is the that that is the space where there will be a lot of figuring out and this this whole future of college hockey and eligibility is gonna be really interesting I mean hey L what do you you played at a major college program in North Dakota a huge one you won the national title twice what again it I I think the college landscape has changed dramatically from when you played to to this because of nil this transfer portal which one of those to you has a bigger impact in your mind you know what I the this whole thing is confusing to me it's C it's confusing for everybody I'm serious I this is where we should have the exploding brain Emoji again because I mean I'm I'm impressed with you guys knowing all this stuff I I just I can't even imagine when I was back in school if they would have been given us some money you know what I'm saying like no bueno yeah like to give I don't know what these players are doing are they do they have agents already in school that are taking care of their money for them that are getting whether football assume I don't know the answer for sure I mean do they have financial planners or yeah I think they technically I have to use the term family advisor but yeah it's probably just an advisor an but it's it's it's usually usually an agent has a family Veil excuse for having an agent but he's not officially signed with an agent but yeah I mean I'm far from an expert on n in college but I know that schools are trying to get it so they're basically having it come from the program getting paid out rather than the players going and seeking it but they're they're signing deals I mean you know players in big college football programs are signing with those schools under the promise of we'll give you so much in nil money and what's funny is I was just telling LS before the show that there's actually a lawsuit for the college hockey to pay back the nil money that could have been lost College hockey fought nil a lot early on and so there's a lawsuit 2.7 billion potentially in back pay with a B to players who didn't make nil money playing from 2016 to whenever nil was actually installed a couple years ago that means that teams and we're talking about smaller schools getting run over that means that a small school that's barely pulling in a lot of money anyway could up to $400,000 a year in in nil money for someone who played eight years ago well that's that'll be an issue I I guess ly for me aside from the nil that just would you were already at North Dakota so you're already at one of the bigest big college hockey schools but imagine after a couple years you could go out and bring in players rather than just recruit freshman but recruit guys you played against and say hey that guy over at Western Michigan was pretty good let's go get him and and have him transfer to our our team and and literally bolster up because we're going to have to keep Pace with Michigan Minnesota Boston College be you know Etc go goers I I I think as a school you'd love it I mean if unless doing all money I mean because now all of a sudden you can come from a team that was here in the standings and now you can basically buy your way up or however you want to put it up up into and again that brings in Dollars into your school fills up the buildings and advertising and all that kind of stuff so um again I I don't really have an opinion except shit that I wasn't there than when this all was taking place I mean wouldn't for you of course it would have been nice I'm making up a number imagine if you got $50,000 a year while you were going to school and and and playing hockey yeah but unfortunately for me knowing me then me now that if I if I got that I probably wouldn't have been around school long enough to play pro hockey you know I mean that that's where I could see where there may be an issue if you're given you know some of these good players but they don't have the capability to kind of control themselves and what happens next but apparently they are way smarter and better and more disciplined than than I was you L you're an old we're gonna I know we're over but one question you're an old school guy which surprisingly I am to oh yeah well now I brought the show up by years apparently okay just old guy does it does it bug you you mentioned that schools love it but does it bug you at all like what bugs me about the transfer portal andl is that these players are now they're not focused on building a team right you look at how many college football teams have even 20 of the same players all four years well and now you're get almost getting rid of Walk-Ons because everybody's got to have all scholarships and and it just it just doesn't feel like the team you know you used to you build up the union we mentioned Union College winning the National Championship 2014 I think is when they won that's a perfect example of a team that played at least two or three years together built it up had a bunch of seniors that were like way older than everybody else and then won the National Championship now it's like I loved Boston College losing in the championship this year because they are the perfect example of just tons of NHL draft picks and skill and all these guys and I I don't know it just bugs me that you don't have the like if I went to college and I had a bunch of friends that played with me freshman year and then half of them transferred it just changes it it makes takes away from the team it's not a it's not the way you remember college I'm not saying it's good or bad I'm just it's different it's like Pro Hockey more like 100% Sean brought up one thing that I think is really interesting is the kids that are playing in let's say major junor in Canada that are currently in eligible to play in college but they're not going to maybe they don't feel they have a good opportunity maybe they didn't get drafted they don't have an opportunity to go play in the AHL or ECHL if they could go play college hockey at age what 21 which is not that ridiculous for amount of guys that are playing college hockey in their early to mid 20s now maybe they could also get an education with it and would that help some of those guys from just completely you know hitting a wall with their their hockey careers and then have nothing to fall back on well let's let's let's talk about the farce of the CHL education system real quick not the farce right so every every year you play major junor you get one year of Canadian University paid for however there's something where I believe after you play x amount of pro games you lose that money so there is technically a education system the other one the big kind of looming pulling strings here we Can't Ignore is USA hockey because for USA Hockey if all of a sudden CHL players are eligible to play college hockey the USHL is dead if all of a sudden you can go to the if you can go from the CHL to college hockey right now usl's biggest selling point is hey why did mlin celebrini go play for the Chicago steel why did uh why do you get um who else Owen power goes played for the Chicago steel too before he went to go to Michigan why did they go to the Chicago steel and not go to whatever team drafted them they wanted to keep their college eligibility they go to the USHL the u USA Hockey has a huge investment in the USHL still doing well so you talk about the invisible strings being pulled right it's not just College hockey versus CHL USA Hockey has 16 franchises in the USHL that they are that are very valuable to them that would instantly really could potentially just completely be tanked by all of a sudden well now college teams can just recruit from the CHL so it's there's there's a lot of moving Parts here and and I one of the things I read that was that was important to that is you're also putting a 16 17 year old kid in the decision of hey do you ever want to maybe play division one hockey that's not a decision they should have to make right if they if they want to go play Junior for their their NHL development they shouldn't have to also say all right if I'm gonna play Junior here I can't play college hockey in two years if I decide I want to it just doesn't feel like a decision I couldn't imagine making that decision now let alone being a 16 17 year old if a if a player transfers is he there can he transfer again the following year so if he comes to from I don't care D3 school and comes to Minnesota and he's there for his sophomore year and he's getting some Jing for it right can he decide at the end of that year I want to go someplace else or is it it's the contract it's the same as football isn't it or it used to be where you transferred D1 to D1 in any sport you to sit out a year it's not anymore so now you're saying that four years at different school if he's an elite player you can transfer every he transfer every year go to a national chionship caliber team and they just have to buy them yeah and people are legitimately doing that college football is is obviously leagues ahead of that in terms of's no regulation in it right now these guys are these guys are playing these guys are playing throwing covid in there and all this stuff and now guys are playing like seven years they're playing four of them at different schools they're starting quarterback at at three different schools it's just it's it's just got a little a little a lot out of hand and that's that's what kind of bugs me well we're going to talk about uh the just announced the retirement of a Dallas Stars defenseman been very defensive focused show but first let's talk about the DLS dieh hard program come become a subscriber and a diard here at the DLS version of All City you get all of the access you see on that that little seal says top level access you get everything that Shawn and Sam write for the website even the stuff that's behind the diard pay wall it's a $79.99 annual subscriber charge half of which you get back immediately because you get a promo code for a free DLS t-shirt and you don't have to spend it right away you can save it like let's say for example we say something particularly funny or luds does a Discord thing and and it just becomes particularly stupid yeah they don't have to be mutually exclusive it could just be great and it turns into a t-shirt well you maybe it's not available yet in the merchandise store you can hang on to that promo code and wait for it and then buy it when it's there and that's half your entire yearly annual investment to be a die hard and guys of course it'll help when we start doing shows on location if we do certain events they're talking about doing uh takeovers by you know getting some tickets to go to a Stars game or a Mavs game and you can get invited to that if you're a Die Hard uh all sorts of things that are really beneficial yes also the damn Discord Channel we're doing isn't that Thursday we're going to do the damn Discord this Thursday instead of Friday and then Jordie Benn retires we'll do another Discord with Razer on Friday yeah so get your get your questions in right now if anybody on the Die Hard wants to submit questions or thoughts for Razer we can have them we can filter it maybe we'll let ly decide what Discord questions get to Razer maybe I'll be sending some in the well I don't know how to send them but maybe I'll send a question we'll talk talk okay talk let's talk about Jord van yeah so we just got the news today I saw and uh let's give a shout out to our friend uh Stephen meserve who does the site 100 degree hockey a phenomenal coverage of the Texas Stars down in Cedar Park that Jordy Ben after a long time in professional hockey has announced his retirement he played last year and actually won a title a championship in Sweden I believe against lean bixel is that right was because bixel's team got to the final was that jordy's team that won it uh no cuz he in the that Jord was in the ensin which is so he was the yeah he was in the second second I was I saw under that article that he had won a title in Sweden and I went wait a minute that can't be the same because I thought that would have come up but more importantly Jordy came as an undrafted player who played he played a little bit with the Allen Americans uh played a little bit for the one of the really cool names in the old ECHL was was the Victoria salmon Kings um and then made it with the Texas Stars and that really helped him grow into eventually getting a contract with the Dallas Stars and debuted in 2011 2012 spent a all the way through the 16 17 season until he was traded to Montreal but think about that Dallas Stars Montreal Canadians Vancouver Canucks Winnipeg Jets Minnesota Wild and Toronto Maple Leafs over 600 NHL games I think I I don't know if this is accurate I read somewhere that it was like 17 seasons for 11 different teams all around professional which is wild and we remember him in Dallas obviously anytime a brother plays with another brother especially when it's a guy like Jamie Ben it's going to be remembered but do you guys remember Jordie Ben's saucer pass to Jamie Ben Ottawa was it Ottawa short-handed oh man it wasn't a saucer it was a flipper it no but it was it was he meant it for a to flier but it actually it was over head high and it just landed so perfectly and that's just ah there's nothing better and Jamie buried it and that's that's what I'll remember Jordi for that's a brother always you know persistence and resiliency I I think is when when I think of Jordy and you know he was a five six at seven sometimes um did his job penalty killer physical um fight if he had to and I think that you know and again where he came from and how he got to the NHL and played just over 600 games in the NHL I believe he was a plus player by the time he ended up uh plus 19 okayer you know and again that's not easy anyways but it's not easy when you're number five six sometimes seven defenseman because you're sometimes you're out there necessarily when teams and coaches don't want you out there and so um but I think the most important thing is Great Brothers you know when you saw those two off the ice um I think they were living together at a time when they were here right Sean I I think that I mean just you can tell they're just tight tight as can be yeah I mean Jordi has continued to live in Dallas since the trade um it's something where this has been his offseason home him and Jamie I think they both got their green cards around the same time and started Living living down here before they they got married even um and yeah I mean he's I I think one of the great things about the the Jord Ben story is there's it's so it's going to be even more rare in the future of a guy works his way up from the ECHL to the AHL the NHL we like just because opportunity is given out so much now on draft position right so so rare like sometimes if you don't get drafted working your way up is so hard so the way Jordy kind of worked his way up and I think his last name almost works against him sometimes like people will sometimes like fan base will sometimes like oh he was Jaime's brother like no his he earned every single step of his career and that's something that I think is a really important thing with with the Jordie Ben story where it's not about how he was Jaime's brother or anything like that that was nice that was a nice perk and that was a cool thing where they played together but his story is really one where it's a perseverance story it's taking opportunity out of nothing that like that's that's one where you gota be you got to tip your cap to it so and quite the beard yeah that's the guy that compared Corel I just sent it to John I'm not sure if he can get it pulled up that much time but from uh what's he from it's not from Rudolph from the other one right from the clation Christmas cartoons back in what's the name of that one yeah that is from that's that's that's from Rudolph yeah yeah yeah lives outside of this how do you know this did you ever we're talking about4 when watch cartoons Christmas watch like pris show you watch like a Christmas show with your family I watch Like shows like cops and you watching cops when you were like years old oh I was living it that explains so many things you know oh that's amazing yeah that was I want to say they did that in Buffalo Minnesota it was Minnesota so they put Jordy uh they put a picture of you Cornelius on the jumbo EXL Energy Center and then Jordy next to him and it was I mean it's pretty close and it he even had a good sense of humor about it too yeah it's pretty close it's funny because they they can grow some beers to Ben brothers when they want to sometimes Jamie gets real scraggly but Jordy had it Jamie can do whatever he wants he does and he does he does and he does you know the other thing though about Jordy and not just Jordy the the six seven defenseman they are special people especially the ones that they're special teammates I should say um they know that they're not always in the lineup but they're always the positive guys at practice after games during games they're and they're some of the best guys to go out with because they just they they've found a way to accept their roles and I I think they're a delight for management to deal with too and coaches you know because there's times when you know you're kind of not forced but maybe that maybe the GM wants a certain guy to play or maybe the contract says the guy's got to play over somebody and and they just deal with th that kind of you know that that scenario so um and that was Jordy and there's a reason how many teams you say he played for 11 professional team or professional sorry 11 professional yeah and so let's not think about that got moved from those teams it's more about those teams saying we want a guy like that in our locker room we have some young guys around we think he'd be a good Mentor for him and you know get through the process and days and things like that so it just says a lot about the person Joel Hanley right exactly I mean that's a perfect example he was it's yeah he was here for for so long and and just constantly just ready and point year I think I was kind of hoping he was still here well there was a point in going into the playoffs some injuries happened where you sitting there going and it was before you knew that Alex petravic was going to step up and play the way he did you go boy we could really use not talking about we should talk about Joel Hanley talk about mostly so we can look at his kid play golf have you seen his kid oh my God this is this is courtesy of my girlfriend thank you Katie she watches all the players Instagrams and everything his kid is like already an unbelievable golfer you need to find that video get it to John we'll show it on our show tomorrow if we can it's crazy we can see that he's a savant it's wild this kid's G this kid's gonna play like Pro Golf like like Joel hit like it's he hits a golf ball better than all four us I I yeah like he is it is it's it's incredible so we'll find well congrat by Future stock and Hanley congrats to Jordy on a tremendous professional career uh honestly uh I I got to know Jordy in the AHL first I was with the Texas Stars he was there he was an awesome teammate good guy to work with I remember one time he got called up to the NHL team and um it was the Dallas Stars were not playing well at the time I I think Glenn goon was the coach and they were having a tough time and he got sent back down and the Texas Stars were first place and playing extremely well and I remember rope and them were still there or was that before that no no way before that yeah yeah it was when uh Jack Campbell and Christopher nil were our goalies in the AHL and I asked Jordy I said was is it tough to get sent down he goes I obviously love to be there it's the NHL but I'm having more fun here cuz we're winning and you know some guys could be sulky and that's fine you know you nobody likes getting sent down from the NHL to the miners but that to me was the ultimate wow he loves this group he loves this team he's happy to be here he still wants to be in the NHL but he was okay because he saw what a great situation the Texas Stars were and I I always thought that was a a great part of so excellent all right let's put a bow on it thanks for the the Brookie the cookie brownie and uh don't forget we'll be back tomorrow without Shawn but we'll still be here as ly Sam for Shawn today myself we continue talking Dallas Stars hockey Victory plus drops tomorrow afternoon uh we're gonna have Sam cover the event which is after our broadcast so we will probably talk more about that on Thursday yeah I'm hoping to get a one-on-one with Nelly o the goal let do it the goal get get get him in studio get him in studio drag him back to the studio with that I think yeah we'll be in the lounge Studio which is out there tomorrow at 11: a.m. we have the early slot so get ready for Stars hockey before lunch it's Thursday Tuesday too Thursday Tuesday there you go you thought it was Thursday but guess it's Tuesday as well for our producer John Anderson and for all the guys here thanks so much for joining us we will see you tomorrow here on the DLS Dallas Stars podcast so long [Music] [Applause] everyone May