Viktor Orban speaks at the Cernobbio business forum | Hungarian Lang.

and there are some priorities which is dictated by the surroundings the context of the European Politics the issue which we have selected and as U the prime guideline of um our presidency is competitiveness uh find the proper answer to the major challenge that Europeans and European Union is losing our competitiveness so to be more concrete the target is that in in November we would like to put together an agreement of the prime ministers and presidents of European Union on the new competitiveness P that's what we are working on um but of course there are two other issues which um you can consider as priority this is the war don't forget that the European Union is a peace project and now we have a war in Europe and the other one is migration which is disintegrating more and more the European structures and you can see the immediate consequences uh just the last uh elections in uh in Germany so we can't avoid to consider uh migration and War as uh as a guidelin of our activity but the selected issue as prime target is competitiveness of the European economy okay okay so let's stay on competitiveness for a second a couple of days ago uh Mario dragi was presenting to a stic group of just leaked just leaked no just leaked no there are a few speeches around where you can absolutely understand what's the direction and they repeated very clearly that to be able to compete Europe has to be strong United more united than ever or there is no alternative it's gone we are not going to have any possibility to be relevant and uh to play our role in the global scenarios so the idea is be even more uh United with a a very strong agenda in terms of Union which seems to be a little bit on the opposite direction from what you normally say about Europe so when I'm speaking about the competitive Ness of Europe I mainly mean three things first is the reconsideration of the of the of the green deal because up to now the green deal is run against the business community and the logic and interest of business uh clear example just the latest uh decision of the European Union on the customs of Chinese cars uh I met previously the main car producers Le leaders in Europe BMW Mercedes and others and they said it's very much against their interest so if there is a sector of Industry which would like to protect to introduce some protectionist custom system but the leaders of that sector disagree with that why we are doing that so it's obvious that the green deal is not managing together with the business it's managed many time against the interest of the business so therefore the reconsideration of green deal is necessary that's the first the second is bureaucracy so if you would like to be more competitive we need far less complicated bureaucratic procedures and less bureaucrats anyway and the number three is U to make decisions to draw back to invite back the Investments to Europe because now even the European companies are investing in in North America and China instead of investing in Europe because the climate of investments in Europe is not attractive enough so this is the three main issue issues when I'm speaking about uh competitiveness is the very concrete points we are uh negotiating on and on the side of being more uniting and being more effective in working together it's always good if you have clear targets so to work together is not a Target the question to work together for what so if you don't Define the target cooperation by itself is not a value you know so the target creates a value and the guideline so that's of course the targets could be a more integrated Europe on um f fiscal issues on common debt on common defense I mean there are tons of priorities no I I have another appro I understand your point but I have another approach if we consider cooperation and close closer cooperation at that level I think what we need is a stronger cooperation on the market Union definitely stronger cooperation on Market Union strengthen it as much as we can if we speak about the political union we don't need it at all forget about it so we don't need political union that kills the European Union in terms of competitiveness I it's a kind of disintegration factor and then if you think about cooperation the union of Defense it must be established so in a nutshell More Union on Market no Union on political issues and to establish a political union on defense that's that's the guideline I follow you know it's kind of weird because this morning president matella introducing and opening uh this uh event was uh telling us that Europe cannot be just a common interest on economic issues that the Democratic process inside Europe which means also discuss of different views and vote is the key part of it if not there is no of course of course it's but it's um it's obvious uh but the political challenge is not coming on that field if you look at what is the political challenge to the European Union which is totally re shaping the political uh the political um arena is the war the migration the gender and labor-based Society full employment these are the issues not the very general European values we all agree on General European values because we have a basic treaty the basic treaty says clearly what are the basic values uh as fundamentals of the European Union so there's no discussion on that at all but there are issues even existential issues which we don't have common answer and This Is War and Peace migration gender labor-based Society full employment these are the real issues that's the reason why I'm saying that we should be careful to argue in favor of political union because on the war on the gender on the migration and on the labor-based society issue we have different approaches so if you force us to come together on issues we don't agree you disintegrate the European Union you look at look at migration migration is an issue which is a disintegrating Factor Why do we need it so if you have a problem in Italy and in many countries that you decided to let many migrants come in and now you have difficulties how to manage to live together with them it's a serious problem but there are some countries which never took that road we never let them in so we don't have migrants at all zero we have a problem not how to leave them together how let them come in to our countries it's two different issues you know so you can't manage both different kind of difficulties on the same political instrument so it would be far better let's say on migration to provide opt out for those countries who would not like to follow the common migration policy it's far better to provide opt out than force them to come together than disintegrating by the conflicts of the whole European structure this morning there is there has been a debate on this stage about the fact that migration can't be considered as a wall because there's legal migration which will be very much needed in future if you uh have a look to demography and the labor market but again I don't want to leave too many topics aside because we have also to open the floor and I'd like to to talk it's an important point but who defined whether you need migration or not is it Brussel or you it's impossible maybe you define it together deciding to be competitive together no no the question is why this issue does not belong to the National sovereignity so to have migration it's a decision of Italy France Germany Hungary Poland it's it it cannot be a common decision why you would like to force us I understand on on migration I understand that you probably here or in Germany you think that migration is a civilizational issue and you think that if two different kind of culture I was discussing about the economy of not about civilization may I have my point so if you think that to live together two civilization is useful and provide a better Society you can have a right to decide to do so but if some other countries think it's too risky because of terrorism because of Public Safety because of the social burden and if a country think it's too risky we would not like to have that kind of new Society why we don't have a right to say no that's that's the question you know so that's the reason why certain issues should not belong to Brussels to be decided but rather stay on the national level belonging to the sovereignity of the member State yeah that again uh if you translate this into economy that could be a problem when you come to talk about you are you are right but whether is it your job or Brazilian bureaucrats to decide whether in Hungary to many other topics to touch upon sorry sorry sorry but I would like to to put a point at the end of my answer so who can Define and make a decision that you as a country should live with migrants because it's reasonable economically or not whose decision is that is belong to the people and the elected leaders of the Nations not to the emperis center of any integrational forms we will never accept that of course okay um let's move was was it was it un no no it's okay we're discussing yeah there there's not a matter of being polite I'm not sure but I could have different opinion than the general M it's possible to have a different opinion that's that's democracy and they like it so that's fine please like to conclude my sentence no no and the problem is uh okay let's talk about uh War okay and uh Russia invading Ukraine one day you said the problem is not who invaded whom which I don't think uh ukrainians uh share as an opinion and uh when you got to presidency immediately there was kind of a turmoil because you didn't say anything to anybody looks like and you went to K and Moscow and Beijing and maralago yeah exactly and maralago as well but but to maralago we will go in a second let's let's stay in Europe for a second so um basically uh what's your idea if there's one of how you can uh move towards uh the end of this war that uh Russia started with the invasion in February without Translating that into a defeat for the ukrainians so my experience on Wars this is not my first war I'm serving uh as prime minister more than U 22 years so my first war was the banian war and I do remember the war on Georgia so what I'm speaking about is not reading things on you know so I have some experiences how to manage Wars and how to manage peace and the Balan war was uh just uh the next neighborhood to Hungary so we were in a very dangerous situation so I have some experiences and that's the reason why I thought that we have to do a peace mission the first lecture I have got from my practices I'm afraid they don't hear you too well so there would be much better let's see so um so the first the first okay the first thing is that if there is no communication no chance to stop the war so communication is the number one very few wars in the European history went on without communication with the fighting parties and what we are doing is is bad because we don't have communication line to the Russians so we need communication to Ukraine and we need communication to Russia as well that's the first the second is um ceasefire so if we are waiting for to have a peace plan which is accepted by both Waring parties that will be never peace because the first step is not the peace plan the first first step is ceasefire if you look at the stories of the wars in the last 30 years at least three ceasefires belong to One Peace plan so you can't start to make peace by peace plan peace plan is very important but First Communication second ceasefire then to start to negotiate on peace plan this is the right order we are not doing that at at this moment that's the reason I went to KF first then to Moscow then to Beijing then to Washington NATO Summit and then to M Lago hopefully to the next president of the United States uh to discuss the war it's done it's already done you have hopefully hopefully hopefully uh we can discuss the ODS but this is not the issue for today probably uh so I went there to understand what are the chance of the peace and my conclusion was especially after the two meetings with the president of Ukraine and Russia that there is no intention neither sides to have peace both parties said both leaders said that they think that the time is on their side if you think as worrying party that the time is on your side you will continue so my impression is that there is no real intention whatever they are saying there is no real intention neither sides to make ceasefire and uh quick peace so therefore that was the reason I went to Beijing and to Washington as well so I think now we should create an international context and surrounding which embodies and express convincingly that the whole world not only the South but the whole world even Europe would like to have ceasefire as soon as we can so without having that International surrounding War just the two part to convince any of the Waring part it's not helpful so we need a big circle of Peace of friends otherwise we can't move to the peace that was my impression yeah uh I would like uh you know I would leave maral laga on the side for a second because the fact that you went to maralago and uh with the candidate criticizing the Press president of the United States can be discussed in your actual capacity but let's leave it aside for a second because I don't want to steal uh time to the audience so I think we have a bunch of people that are asking uh questions and I see Hands uh in the room let me uh leave the floor to the first question from um Mario mon pres floor is yours uh thank you very much uh Mr Prime Minister and Mr President at the time I have been following you with uh great interest always sometimes with concern ever since the mid90s uh at the time Hungary was working hard with the European Commission in order to join the EU uh could you help us uh understand two facts both of which concern you one is that as soon as you took the office of presid of rotating president of the Council of the EU you without any mandate started a series of very very high level Explorations in the sphere of foreign uh policy and politics so and that was done without uh so you thought that one European personality in that position should and could do that but the other fact is that you are on the record as being against any move towards qualified majority voting in foreign policy which means that uh you uh have the view that all but one uh could uh uh I mean that the one could block the old all of the rest um could you help us at least me to see the coherence if there is any between two positions and marginally uh uh um you seem we have seen now to believe in the strength of convictions of uh countries and politicians but also in the unv variability of those conditions are our countries our cultures our political positions so stubborn that you can say this country is is is for this country is against if I take my country that you know well we have changed so much about our mindset our vision of the world our culture our willingness to cooperate with the rest of Europe ever since we have been uh there should those who engage in European politics start from your point of view that n nothing can change uh or maybe not PR just one second because I want to remind the audience that you can ask for more questions on the app or at least waving at me at the end of the answer please the answer to the first question prime minister is obviously yes that's the reason why I have done what I have done uh I think uh if you are a prime minister you can travel all around the world and you can try to negotiate and then you have to have a loyal cooperation with the other other Prime Ministers that's the reason why I sent and later on it was leaked and probably published as well all the reports I have done for the prime ministers about my negotiations on on peace so it was not a secret mission after every mission in 12 hours it was a written report on the table of all the prime ministers and presidents of European Union what is my experience and finally when I concluded my first trip because I'm still working on the piece anyway but not publicly that known as I as it was beginning of July I so when I concluded the first round I made uh a suggestion a report uh summary uh to the prime ministers what should be done if he would like to stop uh uh the war and the expansion of of the conflict uh because my perception I'm speaking uh about beginning of July was that if you don't do something immediately the brutality of the war will grow soon and if you compare where we are now beginning of September to the position where we were in beginning of July now the level of Confrontation and number of victims far higher than it was so I think my prediction was was was right and my suggestions to the other leaders were right and it's you know that's European Union as I said they don't take it seriously into account and they don't act on that basis they have the right to do so also but it was a bad decision um on qualified majority uh uh it's impossible to create uh a qualified majority based foreign policy not because only Hungary but all the minor countries so it's impossible that the foreign policy of Hungary is defined by Germany and and uh and France and probably Italy it will never happen that would be the end of sovereignity of our country so not only Hungary but many of the minor countries not as big as you are or the Germans and the French will never accept qualified majority uh on foreign policy if they would do so they would lose immediately the right to govern their country there is no public majority behind that Approach at all in Central Europe may I say uh clearly um uh compromise that was the the third question if I understand correctly of of course there are certain issues which are basic certain uh fundamental uh when you cannot give up your position and there are certain issues when you can make deals and agreements and compromises of course that's how the European Union Works quite on many issues quite successfully on other issues unfortunately not but the basic treaty is the main guideline the basic treaty says what issues belong to the Brazilian bureaucrats or the qualified majority of the of the leaders and which issues belong at all not to the European uh perspective because it belong exclusively to the National Sovereign member state countries and which are the issues where uh unanimous decision is necessary so when I'm defending the position of qualif no qualified majority and foreign policy I standing on and I'm defending the present legal position of the European Union thank you if there is any other question please uh raise your hand Emma marala Mr President thank you for your speech uh I I I'm not sure I understood well but uh since I think that uh uh you are right in saying that competitiveness of Europe has to be at the core of uh uh uh Europe strategy uh I I agree with you that uh uh you know a reconsideration of the green deal is is is needed I agree that bureaucracy and attraction investment are fine but I also think that uh more integration is needed so did I understand well that you are in favor of more single Market that you are in favor of the Union of defense that you are in favor of the Capital Market Union menu of the banking Union and uh maybe also this you didn't say but it's a question of common debts in Europe because if uh this is it's I mean I understood well I think uh uh it's interesting to have some more consideration from your side may I just repeat first more integration on the field of market and economy is rather good uh it's not it's it's a common sense uh prime minister letto is here we just discussed at the Prime Minister Summit his report which uh targeted also on uh competitiveness and we are waiting for the paper of Mr dragy Prime Minister dragy to come out soon so I think there is a big uh consensus around that in favor of competitiveness we should work more on Bank Union and uh and more single Market issues common Deb is a different issue so Hungary is not in favor of common debt we would not like to be in thatted together with Italy even Germany or any other country so members of Eur of Euro Zone has a different situation some countries are not member of European union and those who are not sorry of Euro zone so those who are not member of Euro zone why should we have common debt with those countries who are in the Euro Zone it's two different kind of logic that would be not reasonable I would like to repeat again More Union on market and economy no Union on political issues and establishing a union of Defense because we don't have at all so I'm very much in favor of to create a council of Defense ministers but what we don't have at all at this moment so we are speaking about more defense and common defense and we don't have a common body inside the conil structure which would deal with that so and so on and so on so um I think uh the answer is not as simple more more Union or less Union on certain territories we need more integration on other territories we need less this is the balance we have to build up thank you there's a question here samant chti really quickly actually a followup I'm and I find it very interesting that you are in favor of common defense but not of a common foreign policy I mean to Me Maybe I'm Wrong or maybe you have a different opinion defense is an instrument ultimately of foreign policy so how to go to go together I I suppose you mixed up military with defense it's not the same thing defense is defense defend yourself to use military for forign politic interest that's a different issue NATO is a defense Alliance it's not a military Alliance don't don't mix it up so the ultimate reason to have defense Union is to defend yourself not to attack somebody else not to force military somebody else to follow your political foreign political issues it's not a way I'm speaking about not military Union I'm speaking defense Union okay uh I think we're almost there uh I see our Minister of Foreign Affairs coming in the room and let me just go back for one second to maralago because I'm curious and uh uh there's a uh there's a prevailing wisdom in Europe that normally you shouldn't take position on us elections you should stay kind of neutral you have been clearly expressing your position going to maralago twice in a bunch of weeks and uh at the same time criticizing Jo Biden how comes why did you decide to be so outspoken um you even in this capacity not just as a prime minister balance is important so we would not like to involve into domestic political issues of any other country only till the point as they do with our politics so what I'm doing is exactly the same level of involvement of hungaryan prime minister into the the Europe the American election as the American uh ocracy uh Administration Democratic Administration is involved into the Hungarian domestic affairs so I keep the balance that's the first but second there is a another reason why I'm so much in favor of trump because um my my understanding is that um losing the competitiveness of the West and especially the European Union um our response up to now is rather a kind of block formation economic blocks um and we have a political expression of the same thing democracies again also but the approach of President Trump was different as is different this is a plan of deal making so what we need deal making approach otherwise it will be difficult to cooperate with the western part of the world economy with the eastern part of the world economy it will be not without conflicts even and discussions and disputes between the the European Union and America Trump possible presidency does not mean that there will be no difference of interest uh in this field but a deal making approach is far better than to create a kind of blocks of the Eastern World economy and the Western World economy and we are moving to that direction and I think it's totally against the competitiveness of the European Union it's not the interest of Europe our interest is to cooperate well with the West which means United uned States and to cooperate economically as much as we can with the East now China and even with the Russians after the war and on the territories when there are no sanctions I would suggest to cooperate even with the Russians so if uh you accept the idea of the second Cold War we were discussing this morning uh you would stay in between no no I I lived I lived 26 years of my life in Cold War uh when the world economy was not United it was divided uh into two parts and may I say that that 26 years of my life personal life and the life of my nation was rather bad so when the world economy is divided into blocks Central Europe and guys like me we are always on the losing side so I don't support any cold war any blockage any blocking approach I'm supporting a unified World economy as much as we can and Europeans even having some disadvantages we should be better and better and better and to to compete to compete and and increasing our level of performance more and more and more this supposed to be my last question but uh they're telling me that there is one question so super quick question and quick answer where does it come from I don't have the name on the screen stener somewhere in the room yes way in the back being hidden by everybody else um prime minister orbon we bet when you were first prime minister we were both a bit skinnier then um what I wanted to ask you was about relations with NATO you're talking about a European Defense organization which is something the Americans have actually want a bigger pillar um and yet you won't let NATO Supply Ukraine from Hungary so is NATO an alliance for picking and choosing do you think a European Defense organization as you describe it would it be a rival to Nato or do you want to work within NATO would it have different foreign policy views do you think be great if you could explain a bit more what you mean thank you sir I think this is one of the Prime question for the future uh and this is under discussion even inside the Prime Minister Council the European Council uh may I uh introduce only my position so I think the experience of this War uh Ukraine Russian war revealed the fact fact that Europe is weak militarily uh on the industrial size and the Army size as well so we are too small we are too weak uh and without having a coordinated industry of Defense without having a coordinated Army building process of the member states we cannot be stronger than we are today the next so I think there's no question about it the question is whether it should be inside NATO or outside NATO and the reason why it is a is a is a a smart question is that there are some members of European Union who are not member of NATO and other members are and the question is whether we can build up a European Defense structure where the non NATO members are part of it and at the same time this whole European architecture is belonging to Nato so the question question is very much relevant my answer is yes it's possible so in my understanding the European Defense System is belonging to Nato and this is the European flank of NATO that's how I imagine very important thanks uh prime minister Urban for being with us this morning it has been uh interesting and important thanks for sharing your Visions with us and now we move to we move to Italy thank you very mucho de is approaching the stage e