Karen Read: Juror Names Kept Secret? Juror 5 Confirms Not Guilty of Second Degree

folks this is what it looks like when you bring false charges against an innocent person Karen Reed jurors continue to reach out to the loyers into the court jurors are just coming out of the woodwork seems like things are getting pretty tense right [Music] now in this episode trial one of the Karen Reed cases over been over for several weeks now but the developments keep piling up and piling up uh and it's just something we're going to address in this episode joining me Yoli Medina Southern California attorney hi Yolie hi thanks for having me and Inter turn red how you doing today red I'm good so we all kind of thought that the trial was over even though a Mist trial was declared and then all of a sudden a couple of jurors another juror and another juror came forward in this episode we are going to take a look at what a couple of the jurors have said um Yoli were you surprised when you heard that the jurors really want to hide and not let anyone know who they are well yes and no I I you know it's very strange that that they feel that way some jurors they don't they want to hide maybe they really did feel intimidated by the whole process and you know it just seems like there's so much behind this Ken Reed prosecution that they feel that if they were to come to a not-guilty verdict or if if it it is revealed that the that they did come and it's established that they did come to a not-guilty verdict that they're going to be in danger um and that's scary thing to think about it is scary uh let's take a look at what some of the jurors have said this is the affidavit ofur Jane Doe who um wrote directly uh to the court and she said uh now comes juror doe a pseudonym who on oath deposes and says as follows I am of legal age and have personal knowledge of the facts set forth here in I was a member of the jury that was seated in the recently concluded trial in the above caption case I just retained Council to represent me imagine that that uh you know you're called to do jury duty you sit there for a couple of months and then you think it's all over now you have to retain a lawyer really why yeah why so um paragraph four I have read the impoundment order entered by the Superior Court associate Justice Beverly kenon which found that quote good cause exists to impound the list identifying the names of impanel jurors in the trial of the case as I read the Court's order it is scheduled to expire on July 18th unless it is extended by the court I submit this affidavit in support of my request to extend the impoundment order I am asking that the impoundment order be extended indefinitely because I am in fear of my personal safety and the personal safety of my family if the names of the jury are made public I have read the impoundment order and noted on the very first page that individuals associated with this case have been charged criminally with intimidation I am frightened for my personal safety as a result of learning that someone associated with this case has been criminally charged with intimidation I also recall testimony from at least one witness who described being harassed by individuals and her family being harassed because of their involvement in this case I do not know of any of the specifics of any such harassment but I fear that my family and I will not only be harassed asked if the names of the jurors are made public but that our personal safety will be seriously compromised this is what really struck me Yoli um during jury deliberations we could hear protesters outside screaming and yelling during our jury service the members of the jury would meet at what was supposed to be a secret location to be transported to and from the courthouse house by bus after being discharged from jury Ser service on July 1st we were taken by bus back to what was supposed to have been a secret location where we observed what appeared to be members of the media including photographers I was so much in fear on my way home that I pulled over to the side of the road to see if I was being followed thankfully I was not being followed but that was and remains my mindset if juror names are made public we will be constantly threatened and harassed and there will likely be a physical confrontation at some point so that's pretty that's crazy I see where they're coming from of attention on this case and people are split like so far into groups over stuff that has nothing to do with them that like you know if they're willing to get that passionate over it to the point where they're standing out of outside of a courtroom where they know that these police officers have a lot of power that they're abusing you know what are they going to do to the people that have the power over this case right yeah jurors are supposed to be given a wide birth of uh privacy and secrecy and if they want to come forward and talk to the media that's fine that's of their own making but they're not supposed to be uh followed like this um hindering any kind of Justice Karen Reed could have because jurors are supposed to be jurors are not supposed to be afraid of giving their verdict because that's their job and it seems that these jurors are completely afraid and hearing screaming and protesters out there when the police are out there doesn't make them feel safe here's something that goes even deeper uh there are clearly people who have very strong opinions about the case and about the jurors who deliberated over many days I have seen articles comments to articles and postings about the verdict saying some very nasty and dangerous things some individuals have expressed outrage and anger that the jury did not equip the defendant some individuals have expressed outrage and anger that the jury did not find the defendant guilty and you know that's not right I mean uh doing jury duty is an imposition enough um we we in the system depend upon a fair jury we in the system depend upon jurors feeling safe that they can go to the courthouse and be protected and um that a jury in this case feels unprotected to the point where they actually have to write an Affidavit of this nature to a judge um I I know I've asked you this question before Yoli but have you ever seen anything at all even resembling this no I mean in the OJ Simpson trial there were definitely people who were for you know convicting OJ and then on the other hand you know finding him not guilty but not to this extreme extent you know and Boston has seen some interesting trials shall I say um there been underworld people tried uh there was the um the Boston Marathon bomber trial uh and there was some very strong emotions about that case horrible horrible horrible case and then there was the Whitey Bulger case I don't know how much people really followed that but you know Whitey Bulger was reviled hated I just read another book about Whitey and Whitey was not a popular character even though his brother was um was um speaker was the Senate President for years in Massachusetts and his other brother was a court clerk uh and he was very well protected and the FBI gave me heads up so he could go in the lamb for 16 years and that was that was an emotion rck trial but I've never seen anything like this in Boston um the juror goes on to say just yesterday I read an article in the Boston Globe with the headline Karen Reed case ended in a mistrial but the die hards haven't given up in approximately the 12th paragraph of this article an administrator of a Karen Reed focused Facebook group was quoted as saying the people who were On The Fringe of being interested in it are now engulfed the anger level was at a nine before and now it's at an 11.5 the article character cized this increase as a rising rage so yeah this you know is it because it involves a police officer's death that that this is getting so uh you know because if the jury just has to focus on the evidence that's all they should focus on and and it seems that even if she gets a retrial that the jury's not going to be able to focus on the evidence because of all this extraneous rage around them one way or another you know I mean how can they be how can they render a vert it yeah and the Metropolitan Boston area is a relatively small area I mean I can get from the north part of the metro area down to Cape Cod before nine o'clock in the morning to try a case as I have um the western part of the State Springfield is a little bit more of a challenge that's a couple of hours but you know it's a very small area so even even doing a change of venue out to the western part of the state you know I don't think you're going to um I don't think you're going to escape this kind of thing in um it was all over social media as the um juror pointed out in that paragraph you know there's a Facebook there's a couple of Facebook groups and I'll I'll admit guilt of having joined a couple of them just to keep an eye on it just to know what's going on I mean you know I followed the trial before the trial I I followed a lot of the publicity um we did episodes on this a year ago when my old friend and college roommate Doug cop was still with us in you know we spent a lot of time even then so there's been a lot of publicity and there have been a lot of uh opinions on on this case but to answer your question Yoli it's hard to really break it down and as to how it got to this point and um that the jurors want to stay that the jurors want their privacy I understand that I mean we all want to go home at the end of the day and I've often thought when I see people you know protesting at the Supreme Court you know I don't know how you feel about that Yoli but I may or may not agree with decisions out of the Supreme Court but I don't think it's right to go to their houses at the end of the day I mean they have jobs they have a great job but they they have a right to go home at the end of the day day and um you know get the paper throw their feet up Pat the dog you know play with the kids you know so this this the whole thing that's happened recently about going after people in their personal lives I don't know I don't know so number 16 I have seen social media posts that were very demeaning of and attacking the Integrity of the trial judge if someone is going to attack a sitting judge I see no reason why they would not demean an attack verbally and physically a juror who sat on the jury and that that stands out to me because you know we've done a number of episodes on this case now going back like I say to a year ago when my old friend Doug was still with us and um you know we see comments and at the end of these episodes I do frequently say you know be kind be polite be respectful and don't personalize it because you know what we can disagree you know we Doug and I you know were College roommates and over the years we disagreed on stuff all the time but we in contact all these years and we were always respectful of one another's opinions he went one way in life in the media I went another way in life to law school and we both had interesting perspectives about that but we always remained friends and we always remained respectful but down in the comments we got some really not nice comments and I deleted a bunch of them and they they the the the real die hards generated a name for the judge and I'm like no no not only because I'm a member of the bar in the Massachusetts and I do respect the bench but you know show some respect for the Ben whether you agree with the rulings or not you know you can write a letter to the editor you can go on your YouTube but you know they they generated uh a name for the judge and when I saw it I deleted it and if I haven't delete them all I apologize point it out and I'll delete more of them well you know as an attorney I feel like I can offer some criticism of some judges because I've been before a lot of judges and I as an attorney have an idea of what it's like to be in front of a judge and how you're treated in you know how a judge treats you or an attorney but you know I at the end of the day you know I'm not the one sitting up there as the judge and uh some people might think that how could you criticize a judge you know you're not a judge well no but I'm an attorney that practices before judges and I've had you know you want the judge's demeanor to be that of a judge to be that following the law and the law is not that difficult all you have to do is read it um it's like following directions you know it's like just you know I've had attorneys and law and judges who just will not focus on what the case says it's in plain English and for and it's this I don't know what it is but just look at the law it's not that difficult you know you read instructions to make something or put something together like the other day I put something together you it's just reading the law and when when the judge doesn't and I'm not saying this happened in the Ken Reed case but when the judge doesn't look at the law before making decisions or at least consult with what the law says about this situation it kind of it kind of gets me impatient because it's almost like can we just follow the law and take all this emotion and craziness out of it you know what I mean it's just I do know what you mean um did you ever serve as like a moot court judge or anything like that way I've been asked to do that I mean way back in law school I was on the moot Court board which meant you know we administered these things but I've also been asked to sit on H moot Court where you sit up in a panel and it's always you know I've never done that but I've had judges call me after the case is over I've had a couple like two two or three that that called me after the after the case was over and were actually very complimentary of me that's great and and these judges you know were you know they were on the brink of retirement I don't know if that's why they reached out to me but you know normally that doesn't happen and no I had the same experience my point what I was going to say is from being asked to be a boot court judge um it's a little bit intimidating I mean think about it you know if everybody's playing their role correctly um you know the the attorneys are very well prepared I mean you know LOL you know what it's like you spend a it's kind of like red having to do her homework you know you have to you have to do it right and you got to spend a lot of time doing your homework you spend a lot of time you'd rather be you know outside doing a thousand other things but you prepare for a trial and you know often you stay up late at night tearing your hair out I mean I remember the first jury trial I ever had I was up all night literally pacing back and forth in my bedroom reciting my open and um so it's intimidating being a moot court judge you know you have these prepared parties that come in front of you and they're very strident in their arguments everybody wants to win I don't know of an attorney ever who's going into court who wanted to lose and if they did they shouldn't have been an attorney because that's not your role but so it's tough being a judge because you have people at your throat and especially in a case like this where there were three very accomplished experienced lawyers representing Karen Reed and you had you know a couple of attorneys on the Commonwealth side that you know they were doing their job I'll give them that um and so at any turn they can stop and and and raise objections and now you've got to rule on those objections and it's not that easy and with respect I'm going to disagree with you on one little Point Yoli and that is evidentiary law isn't necessarily cut and dried I mean you know there's hearsay there's exceptions there's non hearsay so to to have you know five attorneys in the room all of whom want you to do it their way um yeah you know sometimes these evidentiary sometimes it's clear if it's an adequate statement made to prove the truth of the matter and there's no exceptions that's hearsay but sometimes these evidentiary objections aren't that simple and so no and and I I I want to clarify what I said um when making decisions on Law and motion and things like that um you know it almost seems like it should be you know you know you look at the law and I remember they had some some law cided in the motion uh by the defense that talked about uh hearsay being acceptable in a post-trial motion for a motion to dismiss um and so you know you look at the law but yes evidentiary I I think a judge has to be well versed in evidence uh because those things have to be made on the Fly and you have to make a decision and for those judges who are afraid to make a I mean it is intimidating but you have to know it and if you you have to know it like the back of your hand I would think if you're a judge I mean that that's one of the main you know I mean main things a judge has to do in a trial you know so that's my that's my point is that it it ain't an easy job and not not everybody's going to like you and at the end of the trial half the world's going to hate you because you know what I mean you know you've ruled against them or you've made rulings and so let us get back to the um motion and take a look at uh what one of my favorite um commentators in the Greater Boston area calls the Boston broad sheet and what that is is the actual um you know this this goes on and on and on but at the bottom here is the Boston broad sheet um newspaper article that had been commented about um Karen Reed case ended in a mistrial but the die hards haven't given up the judge in the Karen Reed trial declared a mistrial it triggered a cliffhanger and in some an even deeper Obsession so it goes on and on and on and it uh you know um explains what's going on they have gathered in Canton Pro that's how you pronounce it by the way Canton protesting in front of the offices of nori district attorney attorney Michael morsy one of their many nemeses um morsy got to go reads one sign Justice is coming promises another um the weather app shows 88 degrees but the air is thick and it feels hotter the group is huddled this is the kind of of um rhetorical writing that these old broadsheet newspapers love to use and it's probably one of the reasons they're going out of business because the you know just the facts okay just the facts leave the flowery writing to the book you're going to write when you retire but at any uh event an administrator of an enormous Karen Reed focused Facebook group says he is spending three or four hours a day on his responsibilities approving new posts writing his own welcoming new members who are coming in in droves as Reed's Fame continues to grow and uh my response to that is that is a responsibility people might say yeah you know that's not but you know what there are people out there in the media world uh and my undergraduate degree is in media so I follow this stuff there are people out there in the media world that are saying in 1520 years the old broad sheet newspapers of the ABC NBC cbs's of the world they're not going to be there anymore it's all going to be social media whether it's YouTube or X or what are the other ones read what are the other social media that people follow these days I don't know Tik Tok Tik Tok that's the one I forgot and who who knows there'll probably be new ones right there'll probably be new ones to come about um and so that's what the media people are saying so um to um disparage out and out you know with a slight of hand all social media ignores the fact that the newspapers especially the broad sheets are going out of business um their readership is down the advertising is down the papers are down to this and so um the people that do the um the um groups and the social media you know it they have a bigger they're like the newspaper editors of old and if if the person we just talked about who's in charge of that um group wants to uh come in and talk to us I'd love to hear from them uh but we still we're only on document one we have a bunch of other documents it's like hard to keep up with what's going on and the trial's over well not NE not necessarily actually so now um in response to that here is the order of the Court um the judge says that uh the case has garnered significant and divisive attention uh the affidavit that we just read uh submitted a detailed affidavit which I find to be credible juror doe has established a publication of the list identifying the names of the impanel jurors will present a real and present risk of personal harm to jurors and to the Integrity of their service through the affidavit Jane do has established that there is a continuing risk of immediate and irreparable injury and so um the judge finds that that affidavit that we just looked at establishes good cause to extend the impoundment order and so it's so ordered so we don't know if this if this juror who submitted this uh affidavit is one of the jurors that contacted the defense right we do not now we go to juror e a fifth juror has now come out and contacted attorney Allan Jackson and this is Allan Jackson's affidavit stating that on Wednesday July 17th he was contacted by juror e we're going by letters true name and identity withheld to maintain anonymity based on my conversation with juror e and that juror's physical description of himself herself where that juror was seated and that juror's name and occupation which was also disclosed during the Vader I was able to positively identify juror e as a seated deliberating juror in the trial of this matter juror e stated that he she decided to contact me to provide information about the results of the jury's decisionmaking following deliberations juror e explained that the jury was quote unanimous on one and three that Karen Reed was not guilty of those charges jurer e indicated that he she was happy to provide such information but wished to remain publicly Anonymous now you know is it possible that this jury was just afraid to render any kind of verdict and this is why they couldn't come to an agreement it's interesting that you say that because it was troubling in the document that we read before that the jurors were deliberate deliberating it is troubling that um the document you read before pointed out that as the jurors were deliberating they could hear yelling and screaming outside that's not right no that's not right they should have been shielded from that they should have been they should have told the judge I mean I don't know if they did but they should have told in retrospect B I'm sure there's a bayth that comes in and out yes that's in charge that could probably I mean the bayth has to be near them at least in California that's how it works every every jury case they've ever tried yeah you're absolutely right that that's no different here should know right so you know 2020 hindsight is perfect I can watch I can on Monday morning I can tell you exactly what the losing team did wrong and why they lost the football game so um with that in mind you know shouldn't the jury have told the balea and shouldn't the jury have told the judge and shouldn't something have been done about that I mean it's true that that courthouse and I know that Courthouse as I've said before I've tried cases I tried one case in that Courthouse I've been there for motions and stuff like that uh it's a very small Courthouse but I mean wow couldn't the jury have been taken to another room there's another Courthouse down the street The District Courthouse is right down the street you can walk across the street and be there in minute and a half uh there are other buildings in that area that are government buildings uh would have been a pain in the neck yeah but is Justice more important than a pain in the neck apparently from what we hear from the uh juror in the previous document they were um meeting somewhere externally and a lot and then being busted into the courthouse and then uh once they were in the courthouse that's when they deliberated well if a bus is taken them somewhere why couldn't a bus take him somewhere else yes of course it would have been an inconvenience and yes Through My Lens of Monday morning quarterbacking but I mean that's just wrong for a jury for a jury to be deliberating and hear people outside the window yelling and screaming if that's true that's just wrong I mean and now they're coming out and and they're basically saying um uh hello uh we found her not guilty on two of the charges uh and they didn't say that or they didn't Express that I mean at least the first juror who came forward and said it the one who contacted Alan Allan Jackson the one who directly contacted Alan Jackson at least that person knew that they had come to an agreement and reached out so I think there's enough now with all these jurors coming forward that that it should be inquired upon but I don't know I I don't I don't know what the judge is going to do and the judge has has to follow the law with regard to a situation like this and I don't know that there's ever been a situation quite like this so I don't know if there's law quite on it so we have four documents here God bless you red God bless you so let's go to the final document uh that we have here is we read Allan Jackson's affidavit um but here's the actual motion that the Karen Reed attorneys have filed this is defendant Karen Reed's second supplemental memorandum in support of her motion to dismiss now comes the defendant Karen Reed buying through the underside Council and hereby respectfully submits the second supplemental memorandum in support of our motion to dismiss filed on July 8th 2024 as reflected in the attached Affidavit of Allan Jackson which we just read a fifth deliberating juror juror e has confirmed that the jury was unanimous on one and three that Karen Reed was not guilty of those charges based on the attached affidavit and all of the reasons set forth in its opening motion first supplemental memorandum and reply the defense respectfully renews its contention that the jury acquitted Miz Reed on counts one and three or alternatively there was no manifest necessity for a mistrial as to those counts and therefore the double so that this is the same argument they've always made the new important was one and three CS one and three like which ones were those well yeah we we put those up on the screen before the count count one was the big one count one was the big one that was the um second degree murder charge that was second degree murder messing up on that one what can't be messing up on that one no and that's their point I mean that's the major um charge and now um I'm not really good with math and so five out of 12 that's just shy of 50% of the jurors that's just that's 51 122th so that's just shy of 50% of the jury has it shows that the jur well at least this latest juror who filed the affidavit about you know shielding her name or the juror names I mean there's like intimidation um it seems like I don't know there's just like a cloud of intimidation on this jury that's what it feels like to me yeah or I feel like it's kind of starting to sound more like at this point that there might have been some miscommunication among the jury themselves like they were saying different things than they actually thought but do they have to come to those decisions verbally or do they have to like write something down yeah that's that's a good point because it it's it's almost like is this an afterthought did they think this after they finished deliberating or they were let go that well we we we actually did come to an agreement you know like and whether or not they actually discussed it in the jury Bo in the Jury Room when they were deliberating did they discuss it did they come did they all agree or is this just something that afterwards they're thinking about it and thinking well you know what um we did agree and it wasn't like communicated and I don't know that's why I think they needed to fill out the forms or it needed to be inquired as to what they were deadlocked but then the note said charges so the note was ambiguous I think the breaking news here is that the jury was distracted they may well have been distracted by all this noise outside of the courtroom I've already said it in a previous episode that you know there was all it was the 1 of July a Monday the Fourth of July was Thursday your mind goes to that if it's Christmas time holiday you're thinking oh my gosh did did I get red her present did I uh did I make sure that I bought the turkey for the Fourth of July you're thinking you know am I ready for this holiday have I thought of everything that I need to do because maybe not so much anymore but the stores used to close and will I have everything you know do I have do I have enough booze for all the guests um in New Hampshire have I gone to the fireworks store and bought all the fireworks all right we might have to edit that out uh you know so people's minds already are you know distracted it's the 1 of July they've been cooped up in that court that little teeny tiny little you know historical Courthouse where saako and vanetti were wrongfully convicted over a hundred years ago um so they're sitting there in that tiny little Courthouse it's the first day of July they all want to go home but then there's people yelling and screaming outside of the um the Jury Room to me that's the breaking news and to me that's a distraction they might have just wanted to get the H out of there they might have just said to hell with it judgie we can't we can't reach a verdict on the counts goodbye and the judge was like yeah I got to do my shopping too that on that website we were just talking about um there was ask somebody posted a picture of the the poor judge isn't she entitled to go to the grocery store somebody posted a picture of the judge going to the grocery store and you know what come on come on give me a break this this judge yes yes now you know what I don't know that's just it I don't know it's just right because like what is the point of that besides somebody feel unsafe uh she goes to the grocery store like all the rest of us right yeah you know what you know what I'm I'm speechless it's that doesn't happen that often red contested that right that I'm there's so many things that just happened on the fly it seems like or or not on the fly but just things that that like you're hit with like the the attorneys the judge the jury they're hit with this and they have to do they react or they you know it's almost like interference that you don't anticipate happening happens and then you're like stunned as to what to do and you try to do something and you can't like I I almost feel like this Jud like you're right like this jury was distracted I mean can you imagine having hearing protesters out there while you're trying to make a decision and then it's the it's close to the 4th of July and you think people are going to be off what's going to happen to me if we decide she's not guilty or if we decide she's guilty what's going to happen to us from historical point of view and I'm not a historian I wish I was the older I get the more I wish I had paid attention in history class but something rings a bell in my mind about the scko and Van zetti trial and you know I wonder if we should do a little footnote in a future episode about sacko and vanetti because they were tried in that very same courtroom and they were anarchists and there was a real push there was a real push to convict them because they were no good rotten anarchists and let's hang them and sure enough the Commonwealth did put him to death someone else came out of the woodwork and confessed to the crime so I was wondering if the if there's any word as to whether during that trial um there there were people um outside of the jury room yelling and screaming to hang them hang them I just I don't know I seem to remember in one of these big trials over here in California and I don't know why Scott Peterson comes to mind it may not have been him but in in one of the trials there was protesting and they moved the jurors as they should mind yeah know if I'm doing something important if I'm preparing for a trial I don't want people outside of the door yelling and screaming you know I you know I I I don't want that how wait how could like they control that I get freedom of speech and like you know the freedom to protest but at the same time outside of a courthouse where they're making like really important decisions that has to like contradict some noise laws or something you know disturbing the peace disturbing the peace I think be yeah disturbing the peace um or like I said before just take the jury someplace else I mean I don't know got there's a District Courthouse right down the street no it doesn't seem that hard and my question though is did the jury or did the jury tell somebody in the court that they could hear it or if the bayith was aware of it um did he tell somebody to move them like did anybody think that we should be moved you know like right and it's funny how quick like swats were ready to go to the Colombia protests to get people out of there for protesting about the war in um Gaza but now that it's actually you know like like we have people outside of a courtroom that are also disturbing something really important you know where's the action like we had people getting teargas at the other plays which did not seem as serious to me yeah it's very bizarre I I don't know yeah uh well you raised some some good questions uh both of you in I am going to predict now my predictions are often wrong but I am going to predict that um you know some enterprising journalists somewhere will be answering these questions and looking into these questions and trying to figure out what went wrong because if indeed the Karen Reed case is going to be tried again and it it seems like that's the way it's going although we don't know I don't have a crystal ball you know maybe they will make some uh corrective actions it seemed like that was an awful teeny tiny little courtroom as I have said before I I've some familiarity with that courtroom and for a trial of this nature it just doesn't seem like that's you know the right environment and there are many many many other cour houses like I said before I can drive to half of the cour houses in Massachusetts in an hour uh it's a very densely populated area and so yeah there was one other question I had about the Affidavit of that one juror and that is that she understood that or he or she understood that there was some criminal charges brought against some harassers yeah yeah yeah yeah that goes into the I don't know do we really want to go into that in in this oh no I just I just wondered if if uh if that had anything to do well actually we don't need to go into it but here it is here it is here it what you're talking about well we we'll get into it we have a few minutes here before we have to go do our grocery shopping and hope that nobody following us um I would want to be followed in the grocery store would you I mean when I grab that bottle of wine and yeah there you go I know right there's fire buing f um I also recall don't don't follow me in the dog food in the cat food aisle where I'm loading up my card and buy more food for the dog and the cat than for me just follow me into the booze aisle okay so uh this juror juror e recalls testimony from at least one witness who described being harassed by individuals and her family being harassed because of their involvement in this case so it was a witness in the trial yeah what happened is um there was that um blogger there was that um guy that has his blog and he's on the local radio every day now talking about this case and you know he he made himself known he himself faces charges for witness intimidation he himself faces charges for witness intimidation and rightly or wrongly uh some of the people who you saw on the stand uh during this case uh were targeted by turtle boy and um I really don't want to get too deeply into yeah there he himself was accused of harassment but um yeah some of the people that went on the W witness stand had been harassed and early in this case I don't know if you remember that uh there was an issue as to whether he was going to be allowed into the courtroom to um watch the proceedings and the judge made a actually went up to a higher Court then the ruling came down that they had to let him in so judge kenon um said okay you can come into the court but for these Witnesses uh you can't be in the court and then she read off a list of about a half a dozen um Witnesses whose testimony could not be in the courthouse for so yeah that's what the W so my actually yeah my question was how she learned that but it was in the case because I haven't I haven't read this I didn't read this before but it was in the in the actual case that it was in the case it's been all over the Boston media it's been all over the the Boston media is um you know they're like a dog with a bone and God bless them I've actually known some people and out of the Boston media um but they're like a dog with a bone once they grab a story they will not let go of it you can't take that bone out of their mouth and there might be a thousand other things that are happening that day um but they're they're going to ignore those because they're chasing down this one thing and so you know it's just a story comes to mind that uh one of the fellas that helped us with this podcast over a year ago uh was a Boston TV cameraman um Ron bath a friend of mine who helped us with our earlier episodes he's he he's G on to bigger and better things he was a Boston photographer a Boston TV photographer and um during the Aaron Hernandez trial remember that one yeah um one of the Boston TV cameramen I won't mention the TV station but um one of the Boston TV cameramen during the tri followed one of the jurors and took pictures of took video of the juror well he was called into the court and the judge excoriated this juror just you know and you're not running that you are not running that video and sure enough the TV station didn't run the video and the why would they do that I mean that doesn't you have to ask themar it's it uh uh uh you know I mean there's just so much pressure and I'm not defending them trust me I am not defending them but there's just so much pressure on people you know to get the scoop get the lead get get something unique get something different if there's 20 different you know uh news outlets following the same thing sometimes they want to break away from the herd and get something unique and sometimes there are people that don't have the experience that they need to have and they'll they'll do dumb stuff like that and I think that particular particular um cameraman um I can't believe that a a producer or an editor or an assignment desk editor because I've known some people like that I can't imagine that one of those you know administrative uh types management types would actually tell a TV photographer to do a thing like that so I can only imagine and guess that he was off on his own thinking I'm going to get something that they're going to really love but he was called into the courtroom and scolded by the judge and uh I've never been scolded to that extent by a judge in either of my professions when I was in the news business or you know as an attorney so I'm sure that that person will remember that forever so crazy crazy crazy days and the thing is this case isn't over it's just too much outside pressure on everybody and Yolie you thought crazy things only happen in California actually that's that's how we look at here on the East Coast we think that California is crazy everything crazy happens out there no there's a lot of crazy stuff but this is get this is got to take the C it's got to take the the prize um I'm just and you know I wasn't even interested in this case before I talked to you I was not following it and I didn't realize just how messy it was and uh and I I'm just curious if it has to do if the reason for all of this is because it was a police officer who was you know un alived well yeah I think that that has a lot to do with it and uh there was a lot of publicity I know myself I wasn't really following it that closely I had a you know oh it's in the news and I would watch the minute and a half news article and then go one to the other things but my old friend Doug that we got to do an episode on this look at this look at look at what's going on down there and it was just it was kind of played up a lot the local Boston media and um you know the the the news media follows each other we follow you know Sensational stuff that happens in uh California oh my God look at the look at the coburger case that's in Idaho who ever dreamed of something happening in Idaho that the whole world would watch but I mean so these things these things just kind of blow up and as as you pointed out as you pointed out in a previous episode Karen Reed is a is an articulate intelligent college professor her uh she did stock analysis I think you're the one that pointed out that she's a somewhat attractive middle-age woman um and so all those things go together and yeah the fact that it was a police officer um that people always take notice of that that John o'keef had been a uh Boston police officer for 16 years uh but I think just the ranker just the ranker of the whole thing that it divided and I think that's the news Peg that it divided uh a little New England Town people outside of New England now I've been here for decades so I don't go along with this but people outside of New England think that we're this quaint cute little place where there's covered bridges and horsedrawn carriages and it's I think that it happens in in I mean it depends on whether the story is going to get picked up and and shown all over the place I mean because I mean I can think of a hand full of cases where a person was a a spouse significant other was unived by getting run over um and for some reason like I think about this story of the Texas woman who ran over her husband who was having an affair she was a dentist she was a dentist yes and um you know I mean you think about these cases and there's there's there's always something there because there's a relationship and they try to sensationalize it so I can think of a handful of cases where the media was on to something like this but not not to this extent um so to get back to what I was saying before this breaks that whole image of these cute quaint little New England towns because this just divided the New England town but yeah once the news media kind of picks up on something like this it's like I said before it's like a dog with a bone they won't they won't give it up plus the final factor is is now it's summer and things do maybe not this summer because God knows there's a lot of other stuff going on elsewhere in the world and in um you know uh politics but um you know things generally tend to slow down in the summer so if there's something like this where there's a a new um Peg for the story every day it's going to be in the headline so I don't know I don't know that's that's my closing thought you guys have any closing thoughts before we bring down the gauntlet as we always do I think I've talked enough I've said enough me too honestly what' you say red said me too honestly and well I don't know there's a lot of you could have done this a lot better in this case to the point where it's seeming a little intentional yeah that is true well hey you know if you're in the grocery store or if you're in the parking lot please be kind be respectful to everybody that you see because you really don't know what they're going through we welcome your comments please comment um we love our comments we read our comments we often get ideas from our comments but we just uh ask that you um please be kind be respectful don't personalize it every week we get a comment that personalizes it how can you be a lawyer and you say Billy with that little Proviso um hope you all have a great day bye you have been watching about the law a production of the law offices of Andrew d Meers in methan in the marac valley of Massachusetts and in Derry just outside of Manchester New Hampshire remember to click the like And subscribe buttons down below and if you enjoyed this video be sure to share it with your friends and others if you'd like to talk to me about an injury case a car accident a slip and fall a serious bodily injury case or some other case please feel free to contact me I'd love to talk to you you can contact us through my website at attorney- meyers.com we have a contact us block or you can call on one of the telephone numbers we've given there or you can email me at Andrew attorney- meyers.com the forging is offered for informational purposes only it is not intended as and does not constitute legal advice laws vary widely from state to state you should rely only only on the advice given to you during a personal consultation by a local attorney thoroughly familiar with state laws and the area of practice in which your concern lies this podcast must be and hereby is labeled advertisement in some jurisdictions and that's that and that's that and that's that all right yeah and interesting H yeah I I can't believe that uh five jurors have come out now five I wonder I wonder if the others will all come out I wonder now that they see that uh four of them came out and then a fifth came out and then uh you know you can hide behind an affidavit you can just call up ol Allen Jackson and his numberers on the pleadings right there his telephone number is on all the pleadings we've we've put it on yeah I wonder if they'll call or call Old David Yanti he's writing downtown Boston he has an office right in downtown Boston so very strange times yeah well social media is changing everything it I don't know if it's for the better or for the worse but it's definitely changing I mean I see some good some bad but you know I don't know the information is out there it's just like every technology every technology has good and bad firey was good because now we can cook our animals and have cooked food but it's bad because you can you can burn down your enemy's house it's a really good analogy yeah that is I'm not the first person to make that analogy by the way that's how you use the information some people would say nuclear power is good and bad because you can make energy but you can you know kill millions of people with one little bomb so you know every technology is like that I am old enough to remember I am old enough to remember the arguments TV is rotting out the kidss brains you know well you know TV's good and bad TV is bad because it has a lot of on it it's good because there's enter there's stuff that entertains us who doesn't like a good documentary that tells us what's going on in the world or uh moderation what everything's moderation well yeah but I'm just my point is that there's good and there's bad and everything and TV people thought TV was terrible you know TV was going to rot all of our brains out but it's just like when social media is affecting a trial somebody's you know especially it could like in the coburger case where the death penalty is is an issue that's when it gets a little crazy you know um but I I don't know if it's good good or bad I mean at this point I mean we wouldn't know about this if it weren't for you know the news and social media we wouldn't know about the Karen Reed case we wouldn't know about what was going on our our friend lucky made a good point that you know social media just allows a lot of crap like the tunnels thing all right all right I gotta go okay all right have a good weekend okay bye bye