LARRY: ALL RIGHT, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" EDITORIAL BOARD WRITES, TODAY THE HARRIS TAX HIKE PLAN TO LOWER YOUR WAGES. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HIKE IN THE CORPORATE TAX TO 28% FROM 21%. JOINING US NOW KEVIN HASSETT, FORMER CHAIR OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS, AND JOHN CARNEY, "BREITBART" ECONOMICS EDITOR, COAUTHOR OF THE "BREITBART BUSINESS DIGEST. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME, KEVIN HASSETT, THIS WILL MAKE US UNCOMPETITIVE, YOU KNOW THIS BETTER THAN ANY HUMAN BEING BUT I WILL JUST SAY IT SO WE GET IT STARTED. WE WILL NO LONGER BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE OECD. CHINA AND ASIA WILL HAVE LOWER TAX RATES. EUROPE WILL HAVE LOWER TAX RATES. REVERSIONS WILL START UP AGAIN. REPATRIATIONS GO THE WRONG WAY. DUMB, KEVIN, BEST I PUT IT. DUMB, WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> QUESTION. ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT TOO, LARRY IS THAT WHEN WE CUT THE TAX RATE FROM 35 TO 21, THEN WE BROADENED THE BASE WITH A LOT OF ELIMINATING DEDUCTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO TO GO BACK TO 28% WITHOUT CHANGING THE BASE MEANS WE'RE GOING TO HIGHER TAX THAN THE 35% RATE WE HAD BEFORE. THE WAY TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE EFFECT ON WAGES WILL BE, WHAT WE DID TIMES MINUS ONE. WE ADDED ABOUT $6,000 TO THE TYPICAL REAL WAGE AFTER THE TAX CUTS HAPPENED. SO IT WILL BE LIKE A 6,000-DOLLAR WAGE CUT FOR PEOPLE IF THIS HARRIS PLAN IS PASSED. LARRY: LIKES PURE VINDICTIVE. I WILL JUST READ YOU, JOHN CARNEY, WE FORGET THAT U.S. COMPANIES DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFTEN MOVED THEIR HEADQUARTERS TO TAX CLIMBS LIKE IRELAND TO AVOID THE HIGH TAX RATE. BUSINESS ROUNDTABLE, 2.5 TRILLION INCOME EARNED ABROAD RETURNED TO THE U.S. AS A RESULT OF MR. TRUMP'S TAX REFORM. >> RIGHT. LARRY: THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY, IF YOU GO TO 28, THE U.S. WILL BE AN OUTLYER. THE OECD AVERAGE, 23%. THE E U2 1, AND ASIA, INCLUDING CHINA, KNIGHT. WE WILL BE THE OUTLYER. >> THIS GIVE US SECOND HIGHEST TAX RATE OF ANYBODY IN THE WHOLE WORLD THIS WILL BE DISASTER. I'M SURE THE EUROPEANS AND ASIANS ARE SALIVATING WITH THIS MAN. SAYING ON THE PHONE WITH KAMALA, GREAT JOB. THIS WILL BE GOOD FOR OUR ECONOMY. IT WILL BE TERRIBLE FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY T WILL CHASE JOBS OUT OF AMERICA. SHE SAYS SHE WANTS JOBS TO COME TO THE AMERICA. THIS IS THE ANTI-JOBS PLAN. LARRY: YOU HAVEN'T HAD A HEADLINE OF INVERSION, COMPANY LEAVING THE U.S. TO GO TO IRELAND. THERE HASN'T BEEN A HEADLINE LIKE THAT IN SEVEN YEARS SINCE THE TAX CUTS. >> WE GAVE AWAY THE INCENTIVE FOR COMPANIES TO DO THAT. THEY WILL RESTORE THE INCENTIVES FOR COMPANIES TO LEAVE. IT WILL REALLY DISCOURAGE INVESTMENT. WHY WOULD YOU, WHEN TAX RATE GOES UP IT RAISES THE HURDLE RATE. IT MEANS BUSINESSES WON'T GET STARTED. THEY SAY THEY WANT TO START IT ON JUST CORPORATIONS BUT THAT WON'T HAPPEN. YOU HAVE ALL SORTS OF GAMES PEOPLE PLAY WITH NOT INCORPORATING. SO YOU RAISE TAXES ON ALL BUSINESSES. LARRY: COMPANIES WILL LEAVE. I HAVE A HEADLINE, THIS IS FAME MUST FORMER WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISOR WARNS HARRIS' AGENDA COULD SHUT DOWN THE ENTIRE U.S. ECONOMY. IT IS A FAME MUST GUY, KEVIN HASSETT. SAID THE HARRIS GREEN ENERGY POLICIES COULD CAUSE A DEEP RECESSION TOWARDS CARBON. EXPAND ON THAT KEVIN HASSETT. >> RIGHT, WELL THE THING THAT REALLY GOT ME GOING IN THAT INTERVIEW WAS THE IDEA GOVERNMENT WILL ATTACK PRICE GOUGERS. IN OTHER WORDS THE GOVERNMENT WILL WANT TO SET THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING. IT IS REALLY A VERY SOCIALIST AGENDA, WITH A VERY PUNITIVE TAX ON CORPORATIONS THEY'RE IMPOSING, THEN THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY KNOCK US INTO A RECESSION BUT THE THING IS, WHAT WE FOUND OUT TODAY, IN THE REVISIONS FOR THE PAYROLL NUMBERS IS THAT WE'RE PROBABLY ALREADY IN A RECESSION. THEY KNOCKED A MILLION DOLLARS OFF OF THE PAYROLL NUMBERS AND WHAT EVERYBODY HAS BEEN SAYING, SURE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS GOING UP BUT THE PAYROLL NUMBERS ARE OKAY. NOW WE LOST ALL THE STRONG PAYROLLS. WE'RE PROBABLY IN A RECESSION NOW. IMAGINE WE'RE IN A RECESSION NOW. WHEN WE FINALLY GET THE REVISED DATA, THEY WILL TELL US LIKE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, THEY WILL GIVE US A TAX HIKE TOO. IT WILL ABHOR REN DOES POLICY ERROR. THE POINT THEY'RE SO IDEALOGICALLY COMMITTED TO PUNISH COMPANIES THEY WILL DO IT. THEY WILL EVEN DO IT IN A RECESSION I BELIEVE. LARRY: MR. TRUMP IS ON THIS CASE. HERE HE IS IN ASHEBORO, NORTH CAROLINA. OUR GRADY TRIMBLE WAS TALKING TO HIM. LISTEN, PLEASE. >> I KNOW YOU SAID YOU WILL LET FED CHAIR POWELL STAY AS FED CHAIR TO THE END OF HIS TERM BUT WHAT IF HE CUTS RATES BEFORE THE ELECTION? >> IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND THIS 800 SOMETHING THOUSAND FAKE JOBS THEY SAID EXISTED WHICH I THINK IS A TERRIBLE THING THEY DID THAT IN ORDER TO LOOK LIKE THEIR ECONOMY IS GOOD. THAT SHOWS THE ECONOMY IS HORRIBLE. LARRY: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? FAKE JOBS. I LOVE THAT. NOT GOING TO PLAME THE FED. HE IS JUST SAYING THE WHOLE THING WAS PHONY. KEVIN SAID WE MAY BE IN RECESSION. WHAT DOES JOHN CARNEY THINK? >> THIS REVISION TOOK BACK WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS A LOT OF PROGRESS IN THE LABOR MARKET. LOOK, THE LABOR MARKET HAS NOT BEEN ANYWHERE NEAR AS WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE. MANUFACTURING ACTUALLY LOST JOBS DURING THAT PERIOD. IT IS IN THE NEGATIVE COLUMN. MANUFACTURING HAS BEEN IN A RECESSION FOR PROBABLY ABOUT TWO YEARS RIGHT NOW. MEANWHILE THE BIDEN AND HARRIS ADMINISTRATION IS RUNNING AROUND SAYING THAT THEY'RE HAVING A MANUFACTURING BOOM. MAN, IF THIS IS WHAT A BOOM LOOKS LIKE UNDER HARRIS, CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT A REAL DOWNTURN IS? LARRY: THEY DON'T READ THE NUMBERS. THEY ARE NOT CURRENT THE WAY TRUMP IS. THEY'RE DOING IT ON THE FLY. KEVIN HASSETT, BESIDES THE JOB GAINS, IF THE GREENIE POLICY DOESN'T DO IT, THE TAX HIKES ARE GOING TO DO IT, WHAT ARE THE ODDS WE ARE IN A RECESSION? WHAT ARE THE ODDS THE FED IS GOING TO CUT-RATES? WHAT ARE THE ODDS MR. TRUMP IS RIGHT WE'RE HEADED FOR A VERY BIG ECONOMIC FALL? NO ONE IN CHICAGO, KEVIN, LET ME JUST ADD, NO ONE IN CHICAGO IS SAYING ONE WORD OR WHIT ABOUT THE ECONOMY. NO ONE IS DEFENDING KAMALA HARRIS' CRAZY PRICE CONTROLS OR HER TWO TRILLION DOLLAR SPENDING PROGRAM. DON'T YOU FIND THAT ODD IN THE LIGHT OF ALL THIS OTHER INFORMATION? >> YEAH, I GUESS WHAT'S GOING ON IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PROPOSE REALLY OUTLANDISH THINGS. AND THEN THE NOBEL PRIZE-WINNING ECONOMISTS WHO SAY THEY'RE BETTER FOR THE ECONOMY WILL WINK AT PEOPLE, NO THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOING TO DO THIS. LET'S MAKE A DATE, LARRY KUDLOW. I WILL TELL YOU THE JOBS NUMBERS COMING OUT FROM AUGUST WILL BE VERY BAD. THE PAYROLL NUMBER WILL BE OKAY REVISE IT DUNE BUT THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS HEADED UP. IT IS ALREADY SIGNALING WE'RE IN A RECESSION. IN SEPTEMBER WE'LL SEE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE GO UP ENOUGH EVERYBODY CONCEDES WE ARE. LARRY: SO JOHN CARNEY, THAT BE THE CASE, SOMETHING CLOSE TO HIT, KAMALA HARRIS WILL HAVE TO DEFEND PRICE CONTROLS, HIGHER TAXES, HIGHER SPENDING. SERIOUSLY. WHAT SHE SAID LAST FRIDAY. MAYBE SHE WILL FLIP-FLOP, SAID I WAS YOUNG AND IMPRESSIONABLE. >> LAST WEEK. LARRY: SIX DAYS AGO I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN IT. OTHER THAN THAT THIS IS THE ONLY OFFENSE OR OFFENSE, I DON'T GET IT? >> THEIR ANSWER WILL ALWAYS BE MORE GOVERNMENT SPENDING, MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL. THAT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO, THE EXACT, KEVIN HASSETT SAID THIS EXACTLY RIGHT, YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE RAISING TAXES ON ANYONE, ANYWHERE AT ALL WHEN YOU ARE ON THE VERGE OF A RECESSION OR POSSIBLY IN A RECESSION. THE FED ACTUALLY, UNTIL THIS CAME OUT, I DIDN'T THINK THAT THE FED WOULD CUT 50 BASIS POINTS. I THINK IT IS VERY POSSIBLE NOW THEY LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND SAY, YEAH WE'LL NEED A 50 BASIS POINT CUT, ESPECIALLY IF THE NUMBERS THAT COME OUT IN SEPTEMBER ARE BAD. LARRY: YOU KNOW, KEVIN, JUST ON THIS LAST POINT, IT IS SO NIXONIAN TO HAVE THE FED GOOSE THE MONEY SUPPLY WHILE NIXON SLAPPED ON PRICE CONTROLS AND THEN WHEN THE PRICE CONTROLS WERE LIFTED, THE INFLATION RATE WENT TO 15. I MEAN THIS IS ALMOST A REPLAY OF THE NIXON-NOMICS MISTAKE. LAST WORD ON THAT INSANITY. >> IT IS THE '70s SHOW. ALAN AND I WHO WROTE A LOT OF RESEARCH PAPERS SHOW LONG TIME AGO EXPECT THE CORPORATE RATE IS EXPECTED. MARKETS THINK IT IS 50% CHANCE THAT HARRIS WINS. COMPANIES WILL CUT THEIR INVESTMENT BECAUSE THERE IS 50% CHANCE THEY WILL SEE 28. THAT EXPECTED TAX RATE MATTERS NOW. THIS PROPOSAL SHE IS GIVING WILL HURL US INTO RECESSION IF WE'RE NOT IN ONE ALREADY. WHY WOULD I BUILD A FACTORY IF THEY TAX THE HECK OUT OF M