John O'Keefe/Karen Read Murder Trial: Day 29 Part 1 (Prosecution Rests)

good morning Dr if I could ask you some some questions uh just turning back a little bit from what you were testifying to about yesterday um you had mentioned in your testimony yesterday that you had received some uh in additional in addition to uh the internal and external examination that you conducted to Mr o'keef you had receive some other material that you had reviewed correct correct now included with in that material with some uh material from the state leas as far as the investigative agency uh investigating Mr O's death correct now is that something is that typical is that abnormal uh if you could um describe sort of uh in general terms um as far as what any communication would you typically have with the investigating body or agency in relation to uh any sort of autopsy or examination you do yes uh in Massachusetts under Massachusetts law uh the medical examiner's office is responsible and our role is to determine the cause and manner of death by doing an autopsy the scene or uh the scene of death or the place where the decision is found um is controlled by the District Attorney's office and State Police um will do an investigation when we accept a case into our office we uh request reports police reports um to explain and describe the circumstances of the death it could be a house it could be um somewhere else could be outside every case comes with a police report and we review that police report and if we feel that we need more information then we contact the investigating um body and ask for more information um again depending on the case and specifically in this case in regards to Mr O did you reach out uh to get some more information did reach out yes was that in part in relation to what you were talking about in your testimony yesterday as far as the diagnosis of hypothermia and trying to sort of better understand the circumstances prot sustained why did you reach out I reached out because um when the case was presented to us um and after I did the autopsy I did not have all the information that I needed in order to certify the manner the cause of death to me um was um I was able to determine the cause of death from the autopsy when an event is unwitnessed um I we usually reach out to um the investigating agency and ask them whether they have any more information than they did on the day that the autopsy was done because investigations sometimes take some time so in the days and the weeks following um the autopsy I reached out and asked if there was um any more information than uh what I was originally presented with was there any uh video from the surrounding areas what did anybody come forward to say that they actually witnessed whatever happened um and um again um by the time time I was um ready to finalize the case and we have approximately 3 months or 90 days from the day of the autopsy um until um we issue a report um I was not provided with enough information for me to be able to determine the manner now doctor do you recall specifically who it was that you spoke with from the sa yes I documented that I spoke with uh Trooper Proctor I believe twice and with reference not asking you anything as far as what that conversation consisted of but as far as the tone of that conversation um did you feel uh pressured or coerced to come up with a certain determination no I did not and even if you had been uh what would your response have been in reference to that my response was that I am responsible for what goes on the death certificate and unless I have enough information clear and convincing um evidence I cannot determine a manner yes [Music] I'm showing you photographs that i g youday do you recognize those yes I do and what do you recognize OCD uh I recognize these as photographs of Mr ke's body um I believe these were taken at the hospital uh one of them is a photograph taken at the time of autopsy approach your yes introduce as next's little no objection thank you thank you thank you much I have a moment I just want make sure yes yeah yes J so jurus remember the instruction I gave you yesterday on these photographs okay if I have doctor do you recognize what's up on the screen yes uh this is a picture taken of Mr aef's body and if you using theer po have there Direct's attention to what You observe significance in this related to injuries that you testifying about this yes so first thing you um notice is the medical Intervention which I talked about yesterday there's the fibrillator adhesive pads on the chest there is what's known as a SE colar um a cervical stabilization color for the neck and he has been intubated um prior to um uh going to the hospital the injuries uh that are uh obvious in this picture include the abrasions on his right forearm and arm um and you can see here um there is this coloration of the upper eyelid of the right eye with uh some blood that's dripping um that's the orbital or superorbital osis that I described before with um we're too far to see the very very small uh laceration that is present there but that's what's causing um the bleeding and that phot now dror this is not before you had Curr Curr Market 442 do you recognize what's up on the screen yes this is a picture um of the abrasions that I described in my report um posterior upper arm um and forearm you can see that they have some sort of pattern to it anytime we see um a pattern we try to document it as best as we possibly can doctor with reference to these injuries right arm what kind role that play as far as your determination ASA these are superficial abrasions to the skin they are not lethal they're not contributory to the cause of death the trauma that I observed on the head along with the hypothermia are the two factors contributing to his death these are present they're noted they're described they're photographed but I do not know how they came to be and I did not contribute them to the cause of death the if I can have photograph returning to the exhibit of photos you have before youn here yes this is a photograph of Mr ke's Right Hand this is the dorsum or the dorsal aspect of the hand as opposed to the Palm um and you you can see that there are some um contusions or bruises um there's a larger one here and two very small ones here this particular contusion um has two pinpoint um small um defects uh associated with it I believe this is this could be due to attempts at um gaining uh IV access uh during U the many attempts of resuscitation but I cannot be um absolutely uh sure if I have you could Point's attention anything this again this is a slightly closer um view of Mr K's uh face you can see the discoloration the eimos is on the right eye with a slight amount of bleeding you can see here that there's also some discoloration of his left eye left eyelid and do with reference to the other injuries that you were testifying about yesterday as far as the small orations are those visible in this Photograph as well can't hear your question if you could just repeat it in a little louder sure my apologies Dr with reference to this Photograph as far as your testimony yesterday in regards to the other smaller injuries around the nose and eyes area of Mr O are those visible in this Photograph as well you can see some discoloration of um of the nose but this is not a very good um picture of it I think there's a linear abrasion uh on the left side of the nose um that I described and it's probably this this 2877 and doctor if you could again using yes this is a view of the left side of Mr ke's face you can see the discoloration of the left eyelid and now you can see this um linear abrasion on his nose and a small um abrasion uh more towards the middle of his nose feel lastly same you could uh this is the laceration to the back of Mr R's head um you can see this defect here it's uh it's ragged it's a a typical classic uh blunt impact injury and you can see the abrasion the scrape that is um adjacent to it I'm thank you now doctor with reference to um what we testifying yesterday as far as the sub scapular uh bleeding bleeding on the scalp was that more or less prominent on one side versus the other side of Mr O scal yes it was more prominent under that laceration that we just looked at and so would that be more prominent on the right side is that correct yes now you testified yesterday about a blunt object's injury in relation to uh the injury to the back of the head then leading to the fractures and the the bleeding in the brain correct correct and then further leading to the osis is that correct in the eyes yes now that blunt uh object um what if anything can you say about what what that blunt object would be could be any blunt object now from your training experience uh with reference to the number of autopsies and examinations that you've conducted over the years would that blunt object's possibility include the ground especially if it was frozen ground ask the question differently the injuries that you observed to the back of Mr 's head skull fracture would that be consistent with a fall to the ground it it could be would that be consistent with being projected by an object saying a pedestrian collision and then striking your head on the ground it's possible the arm injuries That You observe would those be consistent uh with scratches from either glass or he of plastic or these of metal it's possible and the injuries that you observed um would that be consistent with injuries that you observed in other cases of a pedestrian Collision they're not the classic pedestrian injuries that we observe no and to that point as far as when you say classic as far as a pedestrian Collision is concerned you've conducted autopsies on a number of different pedestrian collisions so of course career is that correct yes I have do they all sort of mirror each other is there sort of disparity depending on how the person interacted with projection sustained watch the form Mr ly what if anything are every injuries from a pedestrian Collision the same no and why not it depends on many factors it depends on the uh position of the body it of The Pedestrian or the person being uh Struck it depends on whether they are moving or standing still um it depends on the speed uh of the car uh it depends on whether brakes are applied or not um there's a lot of factors that come into play would another Factor be sort of the shape of the vehicle uh that that strikes pedestrian that's also possible yes that's a factor and did you have occasion to see any photographs or have you seen any photographs in relation to the defendant vehicle in this case I have seen photographs yes and the size or or shape of that vehicle what if any significance of that have to you as far as your ATT I'll allow it when we have a potential vehicle um clearly we look at the height uh because one of the things that we do in most or all um pedestrian or people struck by a motor vehicle is look at the legs because in the majority we see injuries to the legs from the bumper of uh the car again depending on the kind of car the size of the car and the height of the bumper so in Mr Keef I did not see any injuries in the lower extremities um and looking at the car I did note that it was a much bigger car um with um much higher um uh I say much higher tail light bumper um it was not a sedan or a car that's low to the ground where the the bumper would be at the level of let's say the knee or um slightly above or slightly below and again I believe yesterday in your testimony you indicated that the skull is a pretty thick bone is that correct yes sustained with regards um to the thickness of the skull bone what if any significance or what if any uh what can you say as far as the type or amount of force that would be caused to would be necessary to cause the the fracture That You observe over ruled I would consider the amount of first to be significant again without being able to quantify it I have a moment yes [Music] a doctor from the internal and external examination that you conducted in regard to Mr o'keef as well as the other materials uh that you reviewed uh were able to come to an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to the cause of death of John O yes the cause of death was due to BL impact injuries of the head and hypothermia thank you do questions all right cross- examination good morning Dr s good morning Miss little keep your voice up absolutely you testified regarding a number of injuries that you referred to as blunt impact injuries correct yes and to be clear blunt impact injuries are a very very large category that includes contusions lacerations abrasions and factures correct and you testified similarly that a blunt object can also refer to a large range of objects is that right correct and I think yesterday you gave the example of a microphone being a blunt object correct it could also include something like a baseball bat correct a dumbbell could be um the ground yes or a German Shepherd's Clause claw possibly yes you'd agree that januk Keef had a number of blun impact injuries on his face on his head and his right arm yes but his right arm which we'll discuss in a second taking his body from the neck down he did not have any significant injuries from the neck down not significant no let's take those one at a time no injury whatsoever to his shoulders correct no injuries whatsoever to his chest area aside from sort of the CPR related injuries that you discussed yes correct and that was in the sternum is that right it was in the ribs uh just adjacent to the sternum yes okay no injuries to his torso other than that no no injuries to his back no no injuries to his hips correct no injuries to his pelvis correct no injuries to his thighs to his thighs no no injuries to his knees correct no injuries to his shins correct no injuries to his ankles correct no injuries to his feet correct from the neck down he did not have a single broken bone again aside from those CPR related injuries you discussed correct that's correct not a single fracture other than CPR correct and you sort of you spoke earlier about how the bumper was a little higher than on say a regular sedan correct correct and so usually in a pedestrian Collision you would see injuries to the knees is that right objection depending on the kind of car depending on the speed um depending on the height of the individual and the car you might you might you might see injuries to their lower extremity yeah but in this case you didn't see any injuries to his thighs to his pelvis anything even at the the height of the bumper is that correct correct at a very minor abrasion to the uh side of his right knee so surely you'd agree that J's injuries or lack thereof are inconsistent with having been struck by a 7,000lb vehicle at 24 mil hour and being projected 30t objection sustained break it down ask it differ would you agree that jok injuries are or lack thereof are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 miles hour I would say it's likely and unlikely at the same time depending on the position of the body and the um vehicle in question well let me give you a hypothetical let's say the person were standing with their arm like this and they were struck by the rear tail light of a vehicle at 24 miles hour would you agree that his injuries are inconsistent with that scenario objection sure would you agree that joh injuries to his arm let's start there are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 mes hour and then causing him to spin around and be projected 30t okay so you need to break it down would you agree that J's injury to his arm are inconsistent with having been construct by a vehicle at 24 miles hour I don't know I am not a reconstruction um expert I'm not uh a biomechanics expert um I never uh personally inspected uh the car so I can't offer an opinion on that you did examine in joh O's arm correct yes you observed no significant bruising correct no fractures correct and no broken bones correct I'd like to talk about the injuries to John face you testified that Mr O had a lastation on his right upper eyelid correct he also describes multiple evasions on his nose two yes although these injuries may not have been the ultimate cause of his death you'd agree that less severe injuries can still be very important in interpreting the manner or the context in which that person died correct correct and in furtherance of that you've been taught that when doing an autopsy Details Matter correct no matter how small correct and that's one of the reasons as a medical examiner you have to notate every single injury you find on correct if I could show you can I approach honor yes show Mr L do you recognize that photograph I do and is that a photograph that was taken in connection with your autopsy yes it was taken um at the time of autopsy after the face was cleaned didn't sorry after what the phase was cleaned up okay any objection Mr L no okay 6 permission to publish yes are these the facial injuries that you were testifying to earlier yes and um could you kind of describe in that photograph what injuries you observed in Space the orbital osis on uh both eyes uh the small laceration uh to the right eyelid the abrasions uh on the nose and you testified that the injuries his face were also the result of a BL for trauma correct so that's the laceration to the eye and the two abrasion that we see there on his nose correct and you agree that those injuries don't just manifest out of nowhere right absolutely um they have to originate from something yes would you agree that his injuries to St are consistent with having been punched that is a possibility take that down your internal examination notes also cite a tongue laceration on the right front of the victim's tongue do you recall that yes and you degree the tongue laceration can be also caused by blunt force trauma correct and that could also include something like a punch to the victim's face or jaw that's a possibility in addition to the facial injuries you describe that Mr had a significant laceration on the back of his head he had one laceration to the back of his head correct believe we saw a photograph little earlier you testified that the skin around the laceration on the back of his head was also scratched you I do but you did not testify as to how you app that might have happened no would you agree that someone could certainly get scratch on the back of their head if they were for instance dragged on the ground it's possible you described the open wound to the back of his head as aition which is sort of a blunt force injury that's not the result sharp force trauma is that right yes um and you'd agree that mr's head injury came from some sort of blow to the back of the head whether it be an object or the ground is that right yes jaction and that injury could be the result of falling backward from a standing position onto concrete it's possible it could also be the result of being struck with a large object such as a baseball bat or a barbell it's possible in other words it was an irregular laceration that resulted from some blood force trauma correct light to sort of circle back to those injuries to mr's arm you testified that there were again no fractures no broken bones no significant contusions correct but you did describe the wounds to Mr O's arm as having discreet linear abrasions which were caused by some sort of blunt objects correct yes what does discreet mean it means each one is um an individual injury as opposed to confluent where it would be all meshed together your H if I could publish in previously Markus exhibit 19 okay and these are sort of the linear wounds that you're referring to yes and you testified that these also sort of appear in clusters for groups you pattern of regions is that right yes I did and you'd agree that for example Road Rash does not result in this type of discreete linear wounds it could but not exactly like this well typically Road Rash cover sort of a large area of the skin it would be a large abrasion I mean we've seen numerous numerous cases of road rash in your and it doesn't look like that correct blunt force trauma can include injuries from various objects as you testified including an animal thought correct correct and you'd agree that these discret linear abrasions are inconsistent with having been struck by a smooth rear tail light at 24 miles hour objection can you answer that doctor I can't by a smooth uh no all right next question by a smooth rear tail you said that is not what you would see at 24 mil hour correct objection sustained as you testified earlier you've indicated that based on the facts that were presented to you you don't know what caused those significant scratches on Mr O right arm I do not May sure I could just see what was oh I'm sorry do you recognize that photograph I do it's a photograph of Mr accuse right handk next order is there objection may approach okay permission to publish well we need to mark it first so we Mar identification and then when it's appropriate it will be transer to being an exibit but thank you but yes you can publish is it all said to be published appropriately yes honor triple fortification okay Dr SC you indicated on direct examination at least that one of the verses from mr's right hand could potentially be attributed um to an attempt to get ID SP into hand is that correct correct um during the course of your conducting your autopsy you reviewed records from the Canton Fire Department and EMS as well as Good Samaritan Hospital is that correct I did and do you recall reviewing records indicating that the IB fluids in this particular case were administered through the tibia and then later through a catheter at the hospital yes they were administered through intra oous lines in both legs shins and at the hospital they were um administered through a femoral central line yes and you'd agree that bruising to the backs of hands is also consistent with defensive WS that's yes that's correct and there are actually four separate distinct bruises outside of the one that you discussed earlier on Mr Right correct yes I would say three but I can see how you would say four 1 2 three uh that might be one together um but yes I can see how you would say four and you testified yesterday that there was also an injury to stoke's left hand there was a vague contusion on his left hand correct you were asked by Mr can we take this down now miss yes sir you testified on direct examination that you didn't see any sort of obvious signs of the fight because Mr O's fingernails were intact and you didn't observe any fractures on his hands is that right right correct but broken fingernails and factured hands aren't the only observable signs of a fight isn't that correct that's correct in fact you noted El laceration over his eye yes you notice multiple lacerations on his nose uh abrasions on his nose yes multiple abrasions on his nose correct um you notice El aceration to his tongue yes you noted the contusions on the back of his right hand correct the injury the contusion to his left hand as well correct and as you just testified bruising on the back of hand maybe consistent with defensive bones it could be so in fact if you have a body that presents with a laceration to one of the Brows a laceration AB brance to the nose an egg over an eye contusions and abrasions on the hands and El laceration to the tongue these injuries are consistent with a physical altercation correct objection sustained are those injuries consistent with a physical altercation objection suain you're on a movie approach sure shifting gears for a second you indicated on direct examination that you reviewed some photographs um from enforcement that showed no footprints in the snow do you recall that testimony I do were those provided to you by trer yes do you have those photographs with you no I don't do you recall what was depicted in those photographs yes um if I remember correctly it was the area of the fire hydrant uh in the area where Mr ke's body was uh discovered it's the front of the house um the area of the fire hydrant and I believe the flag pole thank you you testified that Mr o'keef had multiple fractures to SK um but they seem to be originating from a single point of impact on the back of his head is that correct it appeared so yes are you reasonably certain that all of his injuries were the result of a single impact to the back of the head it could be a single impact but it also could be multiple impacts correct it could be yes because as you just testified Mr suffered multiple injuries to the front of his face as well correct in other words he could have suffered to the face and then fallen and sustained the injury to the back of the head correct that is possible yes and you testified before the state grand jury that the areas of bruising to the brain were likely due to a fall is that correct yes in your Expert Medical opinion is it possible for someone to get punched in the face hard enough to lose Consciousness and fall backward objection I'll it it's possible sure I exibit just if I could have permission to publish what's been previously admitted as exhibit 19 yes Dr squ it's kind of hard to see in this picture but there's some redness That You observe on the body by the ribs um that we observe in some of the other photographs represented by Mr L yes I'd like to show you what's been previously marked as people's exhibit 648 um M possible display 648 648 I appr yes 28 PR you were shown this Photograph by Mr examinations yes you see the redness sort of um next to his rib cage on the bottom correct yes what is that that is lior lividity lividity yes um can you describe to the jury what lividity is yes lividity is the pooling of blood to the dependent areas of the body after um someone is deceased so even though it sort of appears to look like a bruise that's that's lividity corre that is lividity yes goes all the way down and it's not the result of inury no thank you no further questions okay the lights please thank you Mr L Dr Sell you did observe a minor abberation to Mr O right me is that correct correct and what part of the KNE was that on if you recall it was on the side on the lateral side of his right knee by lateral sort of the side that that faces away from the body is that correct correct we're asked whether or not um the small injuries On's face could possibly be from a punch is that correct correct you said that one of the possibilities is that correct yes what are some of the other possibilities could be impact during a fall it could be coming in contact with any blunt object in the snow would glass be a possibility as far as one object it could be under certain circumstances uh piece of plastic uh under certain circumstances as far as the blunt object would that be also a possibility correct yes now as far as the abrasion near the laceration on the back of Mr said you were asking questions about whether or not that could be from from Dragon correct correct now as far as injuries or abrasions concerning dragging would it be typical to see just one isolated abrasion in the area of laceration not typical but possible that also be a result of the blunt impacts for uh as one of the possibilities youve testified before from hitting the ground yes now you asked about hitting the ground specifically hitting concrete uh would that impact injuries to the back of Mr O's head also be consistent with striking his head on on Frozen Ground sorry I'll allow it can you can you repeat the question you asked a question on Cross examination about the laceration and abrasion to the back of mr's head being consistent with striking his head on concrete correct yes would that also be consistent with striking his head on Frozen Ground could be yes you were asked about certain wounds as being a possibility of defensive wounds um what are some of the other types of of defensive wounds that you would expect to see that you do not see in this I would expect to see or I have seen multiple bruising um to the again posterior aspects of the forearms um I have seen uh Cuts lacerations um depending on how a person might be defending themselves uh the position of their arms and that also includes breaks in the fingernails and fractures to the hands watch the form is sustain what if anything else with that includ it might include bruising to the knuckles it might include broken um Fingers um now with reference to uh the injuries that you were asked about with respect to Mr O's right hand uh were those um also be consistent with uh impact from a blunt objects as well they are blunt impact injuries yes now again if I could just with reference to uh you asked about different possibilities with the the skull fractures and bleeding in the brain what is your opinion as to sort of how that was caused and and sort of if you could again just go through um your opinion as to the head injuries of skull fract objection ask it again Mr L in a different way you asked about some possibilities what is your opinion as to how those injuries were uh sustain to manifested in Mr I don't know how they came to be I described them and I stated previously that they are consistent with a fall to the back of the head and so I'm sorry doctor my question is is more geord as far as the single impacts uh to the back of the skull and then sort of radiating fractures in the skull if you could explain that in reference to the subal hemorr subid hemr in the ecosis That You observe again a single impact with a fall could cause all the injuries that were seen in the brain and the skull question hi right doctor you are all set thank you very much yes good morning sir in a good loud voice would you state your name and spell your last name sure it's Brian lockran it's l o u g h r a n and where are you from Sir Mr Lock I'm going to ask you to keep your voice up as loud as you can sir sorry that's okay put your mouth as close to the mic as you can um where did you grow up Sir Canton Mass is that where you live yes how long have you live there uh well 35 36 years and uh did you go to Canton Public Schools yes now in the course of living in Canton were you familiar with the Albert family yes um which members of the Albert family were you familiar with all of them and when you say all of them can you name the ones that you were familiar with I was familiar with Brian Brian Albert Chris Albert Brendan Albert Kevin Albert and I believe Kathy Albert is the sister but I'm not 100% sure on her first name okay those are the siblings that uh you would had contact with and we're familiar with yes did you know some better than others yes whom did you know the best Chris Albert what is the age difference between you and Chris Albert uh I believe we're the same age did you graduate uh high school with him he went to a different high school but yes graduated at the same time correct and with regard your familiarity with Chris Albert um can you explain to the jury um how you became familiar with him and what your relationship with him has been uh I went to school with him Elementary School we went to um middle school then he transferred to an uh Catholic School um then later in the years I I began to work for Chris for DN pizza delivering pizzas okay and what approximately what ages were you when you were delivering pizzas for DNA Pizza in Chris Albert I was 25 26 years old and how many years did you deliver pizzas for him uh up until I got married 35 so several years eight years eight years okay uh and uh with regard to your interactions or knowledge of Kevin Albert can you describe that uh Kevin Albert would be uh through Dean pizza if he came in um through the police department would see him on uh details all right and are you friendly with him yes with regard to Brian Albert could you describe your interactions or your relationship with him again through DNA pizzas delivering pizzas to his house uh cordial polite would say hello all right so you're friendly with the Elder family correct now back in January of 2022 uh where were you working I was working for the town of Canton in what department I was working in the sewer department is that also called the water department yes water and sewer are combined and under uh what um you know heading is that DPW it's under the DPW the Department of Public Works correct now back in January of 2022 uh were you one of the regular C flowers for the town of K yes and uh directing your attention to uh January 28th of 2022 do you remember that day yes what do you remember about that day the 28th uh it was uh a potential blizzard we had been given a start time all right when you say You' been given a start time what does that mean it means that we're expected to be in uh our trucks at a certain time on our route and uh who gives those instructions back in January of 2022 the supervisor for Kon DPW and who was that at the time William Walsh also known as Billy Walsh yes now when were you you called in to do plowing that evening or early morning we were told to be in by 2:30 and is that 2:30 a.m. or p.m. a.m. would that now be on January 29th correct uh so uh what time did you arrive at the DPW that early morning about 2:15 when you got there what did you need to do in order to go out flowing I needed to get into my uh truck and get that prepared to go out all right and your truck is there one that's specifically assigned to you when you PL yes and does that truck have any particular nickname yes it's called the Franken truck and why is it called the Franken truck it is a truck that has a a lot of different parts than what it's required it's not parts that were made for that specific truck an older one yes it was a truck that was very uncomfortable at the beginning to use so they try to make it as comfortable as possible uh and that particular truck is it used for anything else other than snow plowing yes it's used for everyday use now so you get to the DPW at 215 you say that you get your truck ready what is it that entail to get your truck ready and how how long it take uh it takes about 5 minutes we just basically we need to make sure it's got enough gas in it so we're not uh going to the route and running out of uh diesel fuel which is not good it's just basically going over the truck making sure you know you have everything you need for that night and do you plow alone or with someone by myself now with regard to the visibility in your snow file Franken truck can you describe that for the the jury what you can see uh so the Franken truck has an aide suspensions an air ride seat so the seat is raised so I can see over the hood and I can see about 5 ft on either side of the passenger side driver's side and when you say 5T you're talking straight out from the from the windshield straight out all right and what if any lighting do you have on Franken truck we have um marking lights we have two plow lights that are um situated at the corners of the the trucks and it's up high uh illuminates um very well it's very well seen okay and with the extra set of lighting that you just described um how far can you see off to the sides in front of you and directly in front of you uh probably 5T on the sides well you already testified to that 5T straight up but what about the sides going forward it's it's you know it's hot toci to put into words but I can see a a real long distance that uh Vis visibility is fine I I you know it is extremely if you gave me probably 5 10t 15t out maybe even further okay uh and with regard to the lighting how how light how much light does that give off enormous amounts it's almost driving with the spotlight and with regard to the air ride seats uh what what action did you take with those that particular night I I raised it so that the bottom of my knees would hit the steering wheel and what if any extruction obstructions I should say were in front of you that would prevent you from seeing what's in front of you or to the side nothing all right now do you have a specific route assigned to you yes I do could you describe that route and by the way that specific route was that the one that you were assigned on January 29th correct could you describe that for the jury yes it's a a route that consists of cedarest from Kings Road to Chapman Street and everything in between there are a lot of streets uh I could name if you would like but uh Fair View is one Spring Lane is one cedarest uh Kings Road uh those are pretty uh important roads that were I would consider major roads on my route all right now that particular night uh if you got there at 2:15 what time do you think you were on the road by in Franken Tru I was on SE Crest about 230 235 now uh with regard to Cedar Crest um I would like to show you a map if I can may I approach yes I've handed you a document if you just review that to yourself and then look up at me when you're done do you recognize what's depicted on that yes what is it it is my uh plow route and consisting of streets that I plow all right and to be fair that's a portion of your plow Ro right correct there are other areas of the city that you plow this depicts my actual physical route oh okay great um and and that's a fair and accurate representation of the the streets as they existed back in January of 2022 yes I would off that your any objection Mr L no you okay1 thank you and I have commission to publish sure okay now you just testified that you got to C I believe you said 230 to 235 or so correct as we look at this exhibit on the screen are you going from right to left or left to right on C when first approach uh right to left okay so you're going sort of from the upper right hand corner of the diagram downest toward is that accurate yes you take a laser pointer and just confirm that route for that's okay you see that's fair Ro are you able to read that right uh I I'm not to be honest with you I'm sorry do you still have that map in front of you maybe that'll help you and actually can I Orient it so it's oriented just like that right okay that's how it's up on the screen okay and and by the way um I should have asked this but is it in terms of the is it you can't read the writing or you can't really see the outline of the streets uh both okay well that's not going to help much okay um if we H have the lights backg on um with a course permission can I leave that up on the screen while I ask a few more questions sure ex can't see it right no I know but the jury can so I think it would be helpful for them um all right so you're um you're coming down Cedar Crest and with you be on your left or your right when you first approach it when I first approach it's on my left all right now do you take that left if that's not no I do not why not at the time I'm pushing snow and we don't want to block any part of the road with snow and taking a left would have left a ren row of snow so I proceed to the end of Ceda Crest do a culdesac and then head back up Ceda Crest all right so there's a cuac at the end of CED Crest correct get in yes and you plow that yes right so then when you come back up is Fair View on your right or your left it is on my right what do you do I take that right and continue to now um are you familiar with the Albert residence on Fairview Road yes how did you become familiar with that uh growing up in K I knew where they lived can I have exhibit 66 this way with the Court's permission yes from where you seated now Mr Walk are you able to see what's on the screen yes and do you recognize that yes what do you recognize that to be that is the Albert house Brian Alberts and when you were passing the Albert home on Fairview the very first time you passed it would it have been on your right or your left it would have been on my right what section of the road were you plowing at that point the middle of the road why is that I I sat in the middle and I angle right with the plow now I want to direct your attention to when you were uh your truck was essentially perpendicular to the driveway you see the driveway in exhibit 66 yes I do um when you were perpendicular to the driveway uh where were your headlights pointed in front of me in front of the truck I'm sorry in front of the truck and what were you able to see of uh the front lawn of the Albert residence that very first time you passed I was able to see the entire front lawn and about what time was it that you first passed 34th Road about 2:45 now as you continued along past the driveway did you continue to have all of those headlights on in front of it yes and as we continued along what were we able to see of that FR L how much of it uh a very large portion uh almost to the front steps and now when you're plowing uh where is your attention focused sir my attention is focused in front of me and then to the sides why would your attention be focused to the sides uh I am uh trying to be aware of uh any side traffic any pedestrians when God forbid any animals and when you were passing the Albert residence uh as you pass every home uh what attention do you pay to the size of the road and the Ws that are adjacent to the RO uh I'm again making sure that there are no animals no pedestrians and making sure no one's coming out of their driveways not expecting to see me and with regard to exibit 66 do you see the flag P there yes is that something you had seen previously yes and when you made that first pass by that Residence at 2:45 in the morning sir with your headlights on what if anything did you see on the front lawn in the area of the flag pole I saw nothing um if there had been a 6'2 200b man lying in the snow there would you have seen it objection sustain now once you pass the residence uh where do you go I go to the end of uh fair viiew and what street does that intersect with that intersects with Chapman Street okay do you still have the exhibit oriented the same way sir yes where's chap Street on the exhibit down the bottom the top or which down the bottom and when you come to the end of Fair View with Cedar Crest in your rear now right correct um do you take a left or a right on Chapman I take a left all right on the Chapman once you take that left what can you do I back up and then take a left to go back down Fair View okay so you're essentially doing a almost a three-point turn in the road correct right so now do you go back down Fairview at that time yes I do and how far do you go down Fair View to the end to CEST now at this point in time you would also pass the Albert resence correct correct would it be on your right or your left on my left were you looking to the right and the left as you were coming down yes how much light did your headlights illuminate of the Albert's front lawn as you were coming down from chapen Street coming down chap just about the entire front lawn and again with regard to that area around the flag did you see anything on the lawn nothing see a body no all right now after you've done these two passes sir where do you go I I take a right on the Crest I proceed up uh Spring Lane come down Spring Lane and then do the remaining of my route how long did it take you before you w up back at cedarest and fair about 40 45 minutes so I think you had previously testified you made the first pass around 245 correct so would that put us at about 3:30 when you're about to make the second pass jaction St ask a sure I'm sorry uh what time was it to your best estimate in terms of when you would have approached th CEST again 315 to 330 all right now when you approach that intersection again are you approach it such that fair would be on your left or your right this time on my left same as last time correct what do you do when you approach cedarest I'm sorry when you approach Fairview and it's on your left uh at that point I I have an option I can go to the end of cedarest or I can turn around at a street depending on how much snow I have on Fairview and with regard to the decision you made regarding that choice what decision did you make on January 29th went all the way to the end went all the way to the end C correct same thing you did the first time correct and then you come back up correct is fair when you're right on your left at that time it would be on my right and did you take that right yes I did what if anything unusual did you see at that time uh at that point I saw a uh Fort Edge on the side of the road where was it parked on the side of the road in front of the Albert's house where in front of the Albert's house uh by the flag pole and why was that unusual the Alberts never had cars that were parked out front and if it just stuck out as weird now what what the snow conditions like that point this is now I think you said about 350 to 330 it's it's that to uh accumulate a lot quicker than what it was previous and what policies does the DPW have regarding cars parked in the streets during a blizzard where there's PL to be done um we are to uh notify the super the uh supervisor at that point he will uh make a phone call to the police and depending on if they can have the resident move it it gets moved if not it gets stowed and with regard to that policy did you comply with that policy in those early morning hours no I did not why because I was being courteous to the Albert family now once you saw the Ford Edge park on the side of Road near that flat po what did you do I had to go around the vehicle and as to not hit the vehicle all right and uh probably obvious but as you're approaching the vehicle was it uh faced in the same direction that you were traveling yes uh and so you're going around to the left or the right of the vehicle left and once as you were approaching that vehicle were you able to see on the right side of that vehicle but the lawn side yes um did you see any uh anything on the front lawn at that time Jackson I'll allow it did you did you see anything no lights were still on correct now once you pass the vehicle did anything attract your attention at all no all right where do you go I go up to the end of uh fair viiew and do the same process take a left on his uh Chapman back down Chapman and take a left into Fair viiew again once you come back down Fair do you pass the AL residence again correct was there uh that car that you saw it moved from when you passed it the first time no um were you able to see the front lawn of Alberts in front of you um as you coming down fair not as much as the first time because the car blocked the view all right now after that how long did it take you before you came back to that area to plow again about 3 hours do you recall about what time it was that you uh wound up back on Fairview uh I I don't honestly recall what specific time sure um approximately it was 3:15 to 3:30 that second time how uh what would be your best def of the time when you came back uh I would say I if I had to say it would been 5:30 up Fair View came back down and then at that point I wasn't able to come uh go further than Carriage Lane okay and um when you say that you went up Fairview and came back down you initially went from which side of Fairview right side um what would that be the right side I'm sorry would it be the CEST side or it would have been CED Crest side coming from CEST and then you went up fair came back down came back down as I'm going up I am actually seeing uh First Responders and at that point as I'm coming back down the road's blocked at that point okay um and when the road was blocked what if any plowing were you able to do after that on Fair I was able to go as far as Carriage Lane and then turn around okay and then I imagine it was several hours before you could plow again yeah before I could plow fair viiew to the end of CED Crest yes now I'd like to direct your attention to February 15th of 2022 um we were approached by an investigator who wanted to ask you questions about what you had seen and done on January 29th of 2022 yes do you remember his name yes what is it Paul and what was your understanding about whom Paul work for jaction ask it differently um on February 15th of 2022 were you ever approached by anybody in law enforcement sir no so what was your understanding of Paul Paul's job objection I see Council T did just a couple questions Mr L sure um at any point in 2022 we were ever approached by any police investigators sir no when was the first time that you were approached by the state police in this case do you recall I don't recall the actual date but I do know Year yes what year was that uh 2023 and you recall the name of the investigator that approached you um Mike Mike Proctor and Sant and I can't pronounce his name I don't want toen would that yes it is I thank sir okay Mr L thank you morning sir good morning may approach yes sir I'm showing you document that's already been marked 109 just asking you to look at that look up whenever your okay yes you recognize that sir yes I do and what do you recognize that to be these are the plow roots for the town of Canton and there's different numbers are associated with different routes and different drivers assigned to those routes is that right yes and if you look down at number 11 is that your route that you were talking about as far as uh the for portion of C neighborhood that you PL yes and that's the route that you were assigned to on January 28th and January 29th of 2022 correct yes now if I could ask just as far as uh there's a certain way that you plow a rout a ro yeah excuse me there's a certain way that you should plow a road correct correct when you're first plowing the road you're sort of plowing the middle of the road correct correct and you do it in sort of a fashion that's referred to as Ring Road right is that correct yes can you explain to the jury what that is and sort of why you're plowing a road in that particular fashion when you're first starting to get out there with plow so ringroad to the right refers to the snow coming off the plow it actually leaves a row of snow we ringroad to the right to prevent cars from having to go through the ren row to the left if you go to the left youve now put the ren Row in the middle of the last left hand lane so everything's to the right so everything to the right because if there was a vehicle coming the other way you'd be plowing into that vehicle is that correct correct and your goal sort of when you're first getting out there to PL the road is sort of clear the middle of the roadway first correct correct so that's where your truck is when you first go out and plow the road is you're sort of in the middle of the road near the the line if there is one on that road correct okay now this truck that you were driving this truck that you were driving on that day how long have you been assigned to that truck for plowing purposes I was assigned to that truck for probably two years maybe longer maybe longer were you driving that same truck in 2015 no no okay so you're driving a different truck at that point correct you remember what kind of truck that was it was an F550 utility truck pickup truck similar in size or shape to the truck that you were driving that day no now you were asking questions about February 15th 2022 when you spoke to uh some investigator on that day correct February 15th yes 2022 that Paul person you were talking yes okay and you met him uh at skating ring is that right correct and you said in a statement to him at that time that you would have seen a body on front lawn or the sidewalk is that right correct now are you aware that there is no sidewalk on the same side of the street as 34 Fair Road correct now you mentioned some familiarity with the Alberts and with the Alber res are there other people on that route that you're familiar with as far as where they live and who they are and all that yes and how are you equally familiar with them more familiar with them or less familiar with them equally equally now familiarity with 34 Fairview Road does that extend to sort of the lighting around that area no so do you know that there is actually no Street lighting whatsoever in the area of the fire Hydra and flag hole or anywhere there for several hundred feet correct you do know I I yeah for the I believe so yes and so when you're driving by you're looking for cars coming out of the driveway cars coming in the opposite direction uh people walking is that correct correct and you're trying to look for those objects so that you make sure that you don't strike them or hit them or anything like that correct correct and on February 15 2022 when you had this meeting with Paul you told him about 3:30 or 4:00 a.m. uh is when you saw this uh Fort Edge uh on Cedars correct correct now in fact when you first spoke to this IND individual named Paul you didn't tell him it was a for Edge correct nope I told him it was a for Edge you didn't tell him first that it was a small SUV no told me was Fort Edge you remember at any time Paul taking you on the parking lot and showing you different vehicles and asking you if those Vehicles matched with what vehicle you saw no he he wanted to make sure that what I was telling him was accurate so he showed me what was a Ford Edge but I had already told them it was a fort Edge so we brought you out to the parking parking lot at the skating rink that you were meeting at specifically showed you a fort Edge and asked you if that was a vehicle correct now do you know sort of the difference between if you would see a fort Edge at night time and a snowstorm uh the difference between a fort edge and a Jeep Cherokee yes what's the difference the tail light in the back what about it for edges are more round the the the whole back facade is a little bit more round they Jeep Cherokee or more Square now what color was this SUV to I can't tell you that I I am color blind can you tell and I don't I'm just curious sir as far as your color blindness can you tell whether or not an object is dark or light just by looking at it you I can see things that are light I can see things that are dark I can see true colors I can't see shades of true colors and so from what you saw was this light or dark light now you told uh this Paul individual on February 15th that the SUV that you saw was exactly where uh Mr O's body was found correct correct how do you know where his body was found I told him specifically if he was looking at the door the front door it was about 3T to the left of the door and to the left of the door looking at the front of the door to the left of the door pushing it up Fair View so if he wrote in his report that you told him that the the vehicle was exactly where the body was found that would not be true objection you all that could you repeat that question please if he wrote in his report that you told him that the SUV was exactly where the body was found that would not be true it would it not that would be true the car the car was to the left of the door putting it in front of the flag pole my question for you sir is how do you know where Mr O's body was found at any point in time did you see Mr O's body on front lawn no so how do you know where Mr O's body was found through police reports police interviews stuff that was posted on on um the medor so you've seen police reports in the media well not the police report I'm sorry but what was said during uh on the news so what you've heard on the news not necessarily what you saw or what you know yourself correct could you repeat that question please you're recounting sort of what you've heard or saw in the news and so this doesn't come from your personal knowledge or anything about where Mr oef was correct correct okay now you also uh spoke with some other uh individuals in May of 2023 correct correct now did you tell those individuals that you actually came in and and when you say it came in you come into sort of the the main sort of hboard or the shed in on Boulevard Street correct correct we punch in that's where you punch in and you pick up your and you sort of do your your checkpoint around the truck and then you go out and plow correct now you were plowing on this street uh is was there any other sort of subcontractor or anything else that was working plowing the roads as well yes and who was that it was um it was um by the yard landscaping and so they assist as far as the plow route is concerned and they go around and they plow things on the same route that you were described correct correct now these other people that you talked to in May of 2023 did you tell them uh at that time that you actually came in around 11:30 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. I don't remember that you don't remember that or you didn't tell them I don't remember that so that would be a significant difference 11:30 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. from 2:15 a.m. 2:30 a.m. correct correct now you also indicated to them at that time that you went past Fairview at approximately 12:00 a.m. and 2 a.m. correct I never did 12 but it was definitely 230 would be in accurate as well cor sustained and only one person can talk at a time my I'm sorry so please continue and finish your answer I didn't hear the question okay well let me ask it again so as far as um if that was contained within a report regarding that conversation in May of 2023 that you went past Fairview Road or went down Fairview Road at 12:00 a.m. and 2 a.m. that would not be accurate correct sustained ask it differ did you go down Fairview Road at 12:00 a.m. 2 me no if that were contained in a report of your conversation you had in May of 2023 would that be accurate okay sustained ask it differently Mr now as far as that conversation that you had in May of 2023 did you tell those individuals that you saw the vehicle around 1:30 or 2 in the morning again I don't remember ever saying that is that accurate as far as whether or not you told them that again I don't remember saying that did you see a vehicle around 1:3 2:00 in the morning I wasn't on the road at 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning correct now do you also recall telling uh those individuals uh that Fairview Road was blocked off by cruisers at about 3: or 3:30 in the morning again that would have been incorrect you recall saying that in May of 2023 I do not may I approach yes show C thank you I'm going to ask you to read Jo your I'm ask you to read this this paragraph and this paragraph to yourself okay and then whenever you're done are you finished sir yes approaches retri [Music] yes Mr L after having reviewed that as your memory of fres as that as to that conversation you had in May of 2023 no it does not do you still after reading that don't call telling anybody in May of 2023 that uh you came in around 11:30 p.m. 12:00 a.m. on the 28 29th I never came in 11:30 12:30 at night it was 2:30 Callin you noral call indicating anyone in May of 2023 that went past Fairview at 12:00 a.m. 2 a.m. correct never did and you normal call telling anyone that you saw the car around 1:30 or 2: a.m. is that correct correct and you call telling anybody that uh the part of Fairview containing 34 Fairview was blocked off at 3 or 3:30 a.m. correct correct now if the part of Fairview um that you were talking about you didn't say that in May of 2023 because at 3: or 3:30 the roadway wasn't blocked off correct correct it was blocked off sometime around 6:00 a.m. correct correct and so if you had said that the roadway was blocked off at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning and it was actually 6 then when you saw the vehicle would have been off a little bit as well correct objection sustain seeing the car at 1:32 in the morning um with the road being rocked off at locked off excuse me at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning if the road's locked off at 6:00 a.m. then that actually would have been you saw a car sometime around 500 a.m. correct objection suain sure you didn't see a black Lexus SUV in front of the house of 34 Fairview Road around 5:00 a.m. no now you also uh were ask some questions and you spoke to some Troopers in August of 2023 correct correct and County Canon they have a parking band in Canon is that correct correct that goes from November until April correct now part of your plow Ro is a is a road called Tippy cart correct correct where is Tippy card in relation to uh to Fair it is top of the it's it's on the right side of Cedar Crest it would put it two streets before Fairview and at some point when you were plowing on Tippy card that night you actually hit a basketball is that right yes and did you call that in yes and as a result of that what did what what happened with the basketball after that nothing it the the point was to make sure I was covered basically it's why I notifi my supervisor that I I hit the basketball hoop and about what time was that did you hit the basketall I don't recall is it closer to when you started closer to when you ended I I don't recall I don't recall what time so you don't recall anything specific about that time frame correct no just that I know I hit the basketball net and obviously I'm not trying to to put words in your mouth or anything sir but you didn't intentionally hit the basketball correct correct so you hit it because you didn't see it correct no I I was attempting to avoid the net by going around it and the Machine had a different size body than what it originally had and I I underestimated when I was going around that I need to be wider so you m the distance is that fair to say yes may appr okay now sir at some point prior to coming in here and testifying today have you met with Mr yti yes how times twice and when were those times Tuesday and Saturday Tuesday and Saturday when sir Tuesday of last week Saturday of last week and this Paul person that you spoke of before was that person present there as well yes and did you make note of Paul writing anything down or Mr writing anything down while you were uh talking to them no And as far as you're aware there's no reports that were generated from any of those conversations or any of those meetings is that correct correct s I'm correct and if I say that you're sure about every time that you went down Fairview Road and everything that you saw going down Fairview Road um but you're completely unaware of the time that you uh ran into and struck a basketball hoop that night is that correct objection sustained you can ask it differently you sure about all the times that you went down Fairview Road yes and you have no idea what time that you went on Tippy card and you struck the basketball hoop is that right if you ask me to guess I can guess for you I'm not asking to guess or I'm ask I don't I don't recall exactly what time I hit that net anything M there just one question I want make sure that we understand what's going on so no statements right just ask a question I always do that I apologize um you were asked a question by Mr LA are you sure you didn't see a black Lexus at around 5:00 a.m. in front of Fairview and your answer was no and my question to you is does that mean that you're not sure if you saw one or that you didn't see objection I'll allow that I did not see a Lexus at 5:00 a.m. at any point that night while you were plowing no see a black Lexus in front of 34 fa no thank you sir very briefly based on your timeline were you on Fair Road at 5 a.m. yes how so sir uh it was about 3 hours after the last time I went on it so it put me I the last on it about quarter or 4 about 5:30 you on the road about 2:45 and said it took you about 45 minutes to sort of do the loop and come back correct correct and um from the time that you were on there including the time that it took you to plow and the time that it took you to to do all of those things along the Route you're coming back to Fairview Road 45 minutes later or it took you 45 minutes to do the route it was about 45 minutes and so from there 45 minutes from what time are we talking that you were first there is that about 2:45 or so about 3:30 330 okay so about 3 hours after that would then be about 6:30 correct it was about I mean I know I went up there and saw the First Responders coming down and when I what I'm asking is you would testify that you may or you were on Fairview Road around 5:00 a.m. if you're not returning 3 hours later and that's about 6:30 from 3:30 correct correct so then you were not on fairv road at 5:00 a.m. correct I was the time that it took me to do what I needed to do put me there about five so when I'm coming down cedarest from doing my route I am constantly looking at Fairview to make sure that it's considered a main road so we need to take that as a priority so if it's a lot of snow on that road I'm going to go turn around and do the road so that the road is available so First Responders have access to that road so sir what I'm saying is you testified you your time that you came down there around :30 in the morning correct my timeline was 5:30 3 3:30 it was 45 minutes 45 minutes was from 245 to get at 3:30 then 3 hours later at 6 correct it was about 45 minutes CU I didn't get a lot of time at that time the snow was coming down at a significant rate and I needed to make sure fair viiew was kept clear so I come down and I check so I have my my the streets are all around Fairview they're 5 10 minutes around Fairview so the furthest street from Fairview is King's Road so my question is are you talking about coming down Fairview or are you talking about being on another road and looking at Fairview coming down SE Crest looking at Fairview despite that timeline that you gave her I am always looking at that street nothing all right Mr lockran you are all set sir thank you Dr Russell uh could you please in allow clear voice state your name and spell your last name course hi uh Dr Marie Russell R U SS e l l Dr what do you do for Ling uh I'm emergency room forensic pathologist just recently retired and prior to retirement what was your position the immediate position um just recent before retirement was a chief medical executive at the uh for the State of California the Corran state prison so Dr West I'm going to ask you to keep your voice up okay yes thank you thank you there's a couple of air conditioners in here just keep your voice as loud as possible um what is in fact a an Emergency Physician an Emergency Physician is a medical specialist who has uh completed a a residency inter internship residency uh residency in uh the field of emergency medicine which is a field which uh involves taking care care of patients that are sick or injured and go to the emergency room can you tell us what your education starting with your education your education training and background is it qualifies you as an Emergency Physician starting with your education all the way back to college okay well I have completed uh at least 16 years of formal education Beyond High School uh which includes uh college and then four years of medical school then four years of emergency Medicine Residency and internship and then four years of Pathology residency which includes 2 years anatomic and 2 years of forensic pathology and um and then I treated uh I excuse me I've taken a bunch of other courses and attended seminars let's start with your college where'd you go to college where' you start okay MIT I did my first year at MIT where I took my Premed courses and then what happened after that by the way about what year was that oh that was in 1972 to 73 where did you go after so what what I was interested in becoming a doctor and so I took the Premed courses and um and then uh subsequent to that first year I learned that my mother uh had metastatic breast cancer and so I decided to go home to New York to be with her uh after that um well she subsequently passed away and uh I I returned to Massachusetts and decided to uh take advantage of the time off from school to investigate my interest in law enforcement and I subsequently became a police officer here in Massachusetts uh so following MIT did you go to a police academy I did which Police Academy did you go to I went to the Boston Police Academy and did you end up becoming a sworn officer yes for how long I did it for seven years fulltime and what department did you work for I worked for the city of malen police department what years were were was that if you can give me a Range uh from 1977 to 1984 during the time that you were a malen police officer did you also go to school and continue your formal education I did describe that for us please well I I took I took specialized courses through the Massachusetts criminal justice training Council jaction move to strike all right so I'm going to strike that jurs disregard that let me ask you this way uh I don't want to get into the specifics okay did after while you were a police officer did you also take formal education to further your medical training or your college yes I did that's what I'm interested in tell us about that oh yeah so I attended North Eastern University uh uh part-time and received a Bachelor of Science degree in in Psychology after you got your degree in Psychology from North Eastern did you go on to continue your education in medicine I did I attended medical school at the University of Massachusetts Medical School from 1983 to 1987 also known as UMass yes did you ultimately end up with a medical degree did you became a doctor did you engage in a residency yes what years were The Residency that first residency so the first residency was from 1987 to 19 1991 and that was in Los Angeles at the Los Angeles County uh University of Southern California medical center is that also known as La USC it was at the time yes and that's associated with the University of Southern California medical center is that right yes after your first residency by the way what was your first residency in what was the sub specialty so it was in emergency medicine and USC is a a very large Trauma Center how would you describe the size and volume of the USC Trauma Center well um it's one of the busiest in the United States after your first residency in emergency medicine did you do a second residency yes what was the sub specialy in that second residency so I did a a two years in anatomic pathology and two years uh as a fellow as a fellow in forensic pathology at the Los Angeles County corer office so you did two full residencies as a after you became a doctor is that right that is correct what's the difference I don't to go into great detail but what's the difference between an Emergency Physician and for instance for instance The Residency that she did in pathology both anatomic pathology and forensic pathology what are the differences well generally the Emergency Physician treats life patients and um and the the spectrum of you know uh injuries can can be wide or or illnesses can be wide and the forensic pathologist treats or deals with deceased patients generally did you become a fellow at the LA corers office following your second residency no that was part of the second residency understood describe that that Fellowship so that was two years of full-time work at the LA carers office under the U supervision of a very experienced uh medical examiners and what I did was I did autopsies you know every day uh one or two autopsies every day attended conferences and um read Journal articles Etc it was a very formalized education did you also become at some point a professor or an assistant professor at La USC the medical center side the university side yes so while I was doing the forensic pathology and anatomic pathology residencies during the daytime I worked as the a full-time ER doc supervisor in the capacity of an assistant professor in the evenings did you also become an adjunct professor at Cal State Los Angeles California state Los Angeles yes at a separate University yes and you had separate responsibilities as a professor in that role yes were you also teaching legal medicine and forensic medicine in that capity that is correct it was a M's level program how long were you an ER physician in total and an attending physician for Los Angeles County USC Medical Center 29 years in total four of those were in training and the rest were as a supervisor and of your 29 years 25 of your 29 years you were supervising others correct meaning other doctors other doctors yes teaching other doctors and teaching medical students yes and and seeing seeing their once they examine the patient they would present their case or tell me about the case and then I would go in and see those patients in addition to my patients that was my next question doctor in addition to teaching were you also specifically assessing diagnosing and treating patients of your own yes not not all not all the time some some shifts I didn't have to do that but most but much of the time yes for the bulk of the 29 years that you were an ER doc an Emergency Physician in other words were you also attending to patients as well yes um once you left that fellowship with the LA Corner's office did you remain active in any way or connected to the Los Angeles Cor office yes so I uh would attend their uh weekly conferences uh when I could when when you know when I was available uh to do so and um I also consulted on some cases with them so if they had something uh that was uh interesting and beyond their clinical expertise they would uh sometimes consult me during your tenure at La USC did you become the director of any of their subprograms yes can you describe that for the durur yes I was a director of the um USC Center for life support training so with and U that involved te ing other doctors life support courses such as advanced cardio life support or that we teach the surgeons Advanced Trauma Life Support I'm sorry go ahead were you also a director for their quality improvement in the early 2000s yes for the emergency medicine Department what was the reason for the quality improvement uh program if you will for La USC well for any uh program it's ideal to have a quality improvement uh component because what you want to do is look at uh cases that were treated and see if there were any errors and if so correct the errors teach the doctors that involved you know what went wrong and try to make uh systemic improvements or teach teach um teaching improvements to uh prevent those errors from occur in the future were you teaching basically best practices for Emergency Room Physicians as well as trauma Physicians and surgents yes we tried and you were the director of that program correct yes did you also become the director of La USC jail Medical Services yes what is the connection or the tether between the jail system in Los Angeles and La USC Medical Center well la C jail Ward was um established about 70 years ago and it was a place that the uh office officers from various agencies such as La sheriffs LA PD um California Highway Patrol or any of the municipalities around could bring uh people that they arrested who were in need of medical care so the the jail system very large jail system I'm guessing in uh in Los Angeles correct correct yes there have to be medical attendance to that jail system correct and you became the director of the jail medical services for the entirety of that system for the hospital component of it understood the in California there is you're obviously licensed in California yes there is a Medical Board in California correct yes and did you ever do any work with that State Medical Board yes I worked with them for about 7 years part-time as a regular employee uh in in embedded in their enforcement unit and what that involved was examining cases that were referred to the Medical Board of because of substandard care or illegal activities of the provide of practitioners providers it was for Physicians and physician assistant that we uh regulated what was your title uh with the State Medical Board for that for those purposes the title was Medical excuse me medical consultant that was the official title okay uh and then before your retirement by the way what years were you the medical consultant for or a medical consultant for the State Board uh in California would you I um I think from 2009 to 2016 I think those were the years I'm I'm not positive uh I did that that was a a job I was doing when I was doing the um LA County USC Medical Center job too it was an extra job so you didn't you didn't uh stop working as a physician an ER an Emergency Physician at L us to take that position no you just consulted with them I I did it once a week one day a week got it uh and then with regard to the uh your one of your last positions that you held did you become the chief medical executive for the California State Prison corporate yes tell me about that position and the years that you held that position so that was from 2018 to 2023 and um as the chief medical executive I was um the supervisor of all the doctors and uh nurse practitioners that provided care to the inmates and obviously the California prison system is a very large prison system very um Dr are you board certified in emergency medicine yes are you a member of the National Association of medical examiners yes I'm actually fellow status Which is higher than member are you a member of the American Academy of forensic science Yes again I'm a fellow there which also is an advancement above just being a member correct have you ever published in the area now may very specific have you ever ever published peer reviewed articles uh and done research in the area of animal bites and scratches yes did you author or co-author a peer-reviewed article named managing law enforcement dog bites in the ER yes about what year was that it was in the 1990s late 1990s 1996 does that sound right did you also author or co-author an article called law enforcement K9 dog bites injuries complications and Trends yes so given those articles did you study specifically dog bites dog wounds on the human B yes I have a very strong interest in wounds in general and I have a strong interest in uh dog bites in particular during the course of your uh career your professional experience how many patients would you say you've seen or treated with animal injuries including bites and scratches it's very hard to estimate but between my my own practice and uh the residence that I supervised it was I'm sure well over 500 and and could possibly be double that could be as many as a thousand it could be yes uh have you qualified as an expert in emergency medicine in the past yes you qualified as an expert in the area of forensic pathology and wounds in the past yes is that both in federal and state courts yes Dr would you ask to review certain materials related to this case in furtherance of coming to some opinions and conclusions about injuries suffered by John o'keef specific to his right arm yes what did you review in coming to your opinions and conclusions well I reviewed hospital records and hos and pictures taken uh of him uh in from in the hospital when he was in the hospital I reviewed uh autopsy records the autopsy report and and photographs taken uh during and before the autopsy uh I reviewed uh let's see I reviewed um the Grand I revie reviewed the grand jury testimony of the autopsy pathologist uh I reviewed Affidavit of Dr Sheridan I reviewed the uh town of Canton dog bite reports about uh regarding incidents uh may we approach yes