so I interviewed Doug mhof like three weeks ago past the end conversation we were at the DNC and one of the things I took from it which I think comes into play is and I asked him this directly I was like what is it like to be a very successful man but have an icon as a spouse and that is a different thing that I think American men are comprehending we're in a space now where it's like you can be Travis Kelce a top three tight end of alltime Super Bowl winner but you're still with Taylor Swift right you can be Jay-Z you're one of the greatest rappers of all time but you're not Beyonce who is a global icon right right and we're we're getting to this place where men are more comfortable with this idea of like not because I'm weak not because I'm a simp not because I can't believe she she gave me the chance but men are like my wife is freaking awesome and I'm proud of that and I stand by her it's a generational shift I mean yeah wait minut I would not I'm not g to say it's generational I'm GNA say well I'mma tell you what I'm G tell you why because you got Josh Holley out there that would have a different take on on on on this exact conversation he would look at Jay-Z and Kelsey and and mhof as weak men right because they let their women run them and and as opposed to them running their women that's this whole thing about you know masculinity I mean what's your definition of masculinity it's not it's not your it's not your compassion it's not your willingness to die to self to promote someone else over you particularly your spouse or your girlfriend or the woman in your life that's not what that masculinity is about they're they're pissed that that men like Jay-Z like mhof are saying it's okay to have a woman head of household it's okay what because that my mama was ahe of my household yeah my daddy heartbeat who ran the house right here's what I was saying generationally when I wrote my first book black woman redefined we did a lot of research and we had a lot of focus groups with black men ironically the poster in that book was a woman named kellyanne Conway and she hired she had the polling company she hired all black women and men to do this the book as you know did very well W Awards but she one of the things we heard from Black men was it was a generational where they felt that they had to be that bread winner they weren't comfortable with the black female lawyer or doctor particularly in our community and what I think I see shifting because as you know 47% of professional black women in my generation Gen X are unmarried and never married I'm one of them with no children it is a phenomenon that never happened before and it is increased since that time Jason you teach it in HBCU and 70 to 80% of that campus is female right that high I don't think it's that high it's probably close to to 6040 but okay depending on which HBC you go to I've been to Southern and I spoke it was about 70% my point is Michael she's going to present this image now that I think is very important she got married at 50 for the first time no children of her own but a stepmom marries a successful man who's willing to step aside and Let Her Shine as you said but I think you're going to see that open up a lot for like you said how men look at who they date the second time around the first time around how they engage with powerful women I think it's it's it's a big shift that we're seeing Josh Holly is just a jackass I'll just say it so but but I I think I think to your point it's we were talking and and my producer um we had a question about um we were gonna ask him about that time in during the primary in 20 2019 2020 when the guy ran up on stage right on then you know uh Senator Harris and and how IM off responded and the interesting thing about it is this was the day after Trump had attacked uh vice president Harris at nabj so he's probably coming in hot right and I asked him and before and I said I said you know how do you feel when you see you know she's a public figure but how do you feel when you see your wife attack like that and the first thing I as his mouth he said look he's like I'm Papa Bear he's like you remember when that guy came on stage that's really how I am and I was like oh okay yeah it's like okay okay and it and it it showed we we are now in this world where it's like oh I know who I am my my wife is is is is the baddest thing since sliced bread but I also know who I am right and I think we we across it's a cross-section Mike I agree with you as well yes you have the Josh Hol of the world who want to go on YouTube and Instagram and follow Trad wives because they feel because they feel threatened all the time but you have a another group of men across race gender class or whatever who are like look as long as I feel respected my respect doesn't have to come from my ability to dominate this person who has chosen partnership with me and that is it people didn't feel that way about Hillary Clinton right they thought Hillary Clinton was terrible in emasculating right that's not the energy that people seem to get from Harris and and and and I and that's that generational shift that Sophia was talking about that clearly is generational Hillary I would say I say that feeling is still there I was say that feeling is still there about kamla at a certain generation age right but for men particularly who are 40 and younger they don't that Vibe doesn't exist for them you're right I was going to say about Hillary Jason she actually ironically is so traditional she stayed with her husband through adultery and all kind of stuff she's still with her husband yeah so this feminist that everybody says she is she actually broke those rules because a younger woman ideally would look at a man who cheated like that and be like yeah I'm good I'm out it would be Elizabeth Warren who was like I I can leave it for you know I I remember talking to to White friends of mine and and some not all but some white women saying as gen xers that part of why they didn't like Hillary Clinton was because they were like you sound like the feminist from my generation who kept telling me this you stayed with this philandering husband that disrespected you and now I don't believe you like there was an element to that and I was like oh what I mean again I'm I'm I'm not a 38- year old white woman but I I understood that frustration with her and what you have with haris is this person who again the story that we want to tell about ourselves right like happily co-parenting the fact that Doug mhw's first wife came out and tweeted like uh no KLA Harris we cool she is an excellent stepmother to my children you're not gonna come for us like oh wow okay we're at we're at the Modern Family territory here right like everybody people are Blended people are happy people feel respected and and and again when I was talking to the second gentlemen you know their 10year wedding anniversary is this year and we kind of chuckled about the fact that he's like you know this week yeah yeah this week and he was like I didn't think it was gonna go here but I'm ready for the ride and I was like there are a lot more men in this country who see that and are like that could be my boss that could be my sister-in-law that's my co-worker that's my this that the other I'm fine with this because again the alternative is something gross and terrible that I cannot justify to my wife my daughter my sister or my best friend who's a woman from college so there there's a that that's going to be that's going to be an interesting story again if this this she ends up being president and the the cynic at me would say men getting to the point where they go you know what I'm done y y'all go ahead and do it I'm tired I'm stay home with the kids with he walk in the park I'm good that's fine right lady go ahead do your thing you pick the Christmas cards you know what baby you pick the Christmas cards that's right Chistmas card I'm good what time you want dinner I'll be home but Jason you said something key you said Doug said he was still papa bear and he did run up on that stage so oh yeah again we want a strong smart career girls you still want your man to be a man you still want him to have your back hey sometimes you gotta pop out and I've seen Doug Doug he knows how to stand back but he knows how to stand right next to her too and I think that that's really the key and and she seems to adore him which I think is great