Harris or Trump: Who won the US presidential debate? | BBC Americast

what a big night in American politics kamla Harris and Donald Trump met for the first presidential debate between the two of them and actually it was the first time they've ever even met it was hosted by ABC News um and it took place in Philadelphia but there was someone else who stole the show Taylor Swift when she came out to endorse kamla Harris after the debate posting on Instagram it's there that we pick up with Anthony and Sarah who are in the spin room in Philadelphia they watch the debate unfold and the aftermath as well the debate has concluded the spinning in the spin room has concluded and we're left to pick up the pieces as the people all around us start packing up all their gear and what a historic night Anthony who thought we would be here in Philadelphia when the Taylor Swift Inman came I'll never forget where I was exactly there were we watching 90 minutes of this debate and thinking that this was electoral history being made and little did we know it was all about to drop on social media and of course it's exciting we've been waiting a while for this to come along um I think it is important though as well is this isn't just like celebrity taking over politics Taylor Swift has huge reach to millions and millions and millions of fans and followers who you know who do take quite seriously what she says on social media but they're a really key demographic aren't they young people and young women who you would expect probably to be voting for Carla Harris but who might not been motivated to come Mountain Vault if Taylor Swift wasn't maybe suggesting they ought to yeah Mariana speak to us about young people and young women in Taylor Swift what did you think of all of this tell us you know how important is this going to be yeah um Sarah it was a shame that you weren't you weren't there at that moment cuz I I opened my phone up and um one of the producers said look at your phone look at your phone and I was like wow okay Taylor Swift's hugging a cat and she's signed off as a childless cat lady um and yeah I think I you know it's a big moment quite a few of the people who like Taylor Swift and follow Taylor Swift probably would have voted for kamla Harris anyways or wouldn't have voted for Donald Trump but it does just really kind of put the election on the map particularly for people who aren't maybe following along as avidly as people like us and people who see this pop up on their Instagram feed or on their social media feeds um you know today tonight in the case of you guys um and um think oh okay I'm going to follow this election or even I might go and vote for kamla Harris and I think that's that's the possible impact it could have and how many followers does she have I mean it's like hundreds of millions isn't it of people who see it when she posts on social media and if those are mostly young women who you wouldn't necessarily expect to be supporting Donald Trump you know there are people who might go and vote now who wouldn't have done otherwise might get involved in organizing you know this does put a real jolt of enthusiasm I would imagine through a certain section of the electorate and of course you know it's just it's a good boost for the Harris campaign isn't it I mean she obviously thought she had a very good night tonight all the Democrats here here in the media center we're very very happy with her performance so what a sort of moment of clown crowning Glory that you get the biggest pop star in the world to come out for you just as you finished that debate I mean it's yes it's it's got to feel as though it's the icing on the cake I would imagine for the Harris campaign let's talk a bit about the the mood here because yeah there is a sense among Democrats that they're jubilant at KLA Harris's performance Republicans are defensive accusing the moderators of gaming the system against them saying Donald Trump still made his points but you were out on the spin room flooor you know I was out on the spin room floor what I was hearing at least from Democrats was that this was a very good night and they were going to enjoy this for a long time oh absolutely and that's why the Harris campaign instantly said they wanted to do it again and put out a message saying you know that was so much fun let's do it again in October and obviously the Trump campaign was not agreeing to that in the moment but of course the big surprise was that instead of just all of those Republican surrogates who as you say were being a bit defensive Anthony about Trump's performance he turned up himself now so he obviously thought he had quite a lot of work to do to try and spin the narrative after what had not been a great performance from him if he's here talking to the media himself about it and you had all the usual trump bombass it was his best debate performance yet uh and the only reason the Harris campaign were asking for another debate was because they knew she'd done so badly they needed a a doover that they needed to do it again but he wouldn't be here and he wouldn't be saying those things frankly if he believed any of those things exactly I I think it was a move made reflecting the weakness of his performance and he needed to get out there and change the narrative to defend himself to give a new set of sound bites that would supersede the ones that were going to be coming from the debate about him talking about Haitians and Ohio eating cats in Springfield they're eating the dogs the people that came in they're eating the cats they're eating they're eating the pets of the people that live there and of it was just you know it wasn't the kind of debate performance that's going to help Donald Trump he didn't take advantage of KLA Harris's weakness he he didn't defend his own particularly on things like abortion in January 6 uh and you know laying out how he would actually carry out the deportation plan that he's he's come up with so yeah here he was and you could just feel the energy I mean it felt like I like there was a giant black hole in the middle of the spin room and everyone who wasn't tied down to something or holding on to a table was getting sucked in towards it actually had a great time going around talking to all the other surrogates who were just kind of standing there I mean the governor of Pennsylvania Josh Shapiro had no one around him there were members of Congress just kind of standing there staring at the walls while everyone in this room was around Donald Trump so you know for those of us who who actually like to have conversations with politicians that was a really good moment yeah that sounds like a really smart move cuz I was sucked into the black hole and that meant I was wedged between a couple of Australian cameramen couldn't hear a word that Donald Trump was saying also couldn't talk to Justin who I was trying to record an interview with for the today program and really achieve very little other than being able to see sort of the in the far distance a shock of blonde hair in the middle of all these um cameras do you know what I would like to do is go back and watch that debate without the sound on I mean sometimes people say the pictures are distracting maybe you should just listen to the audio only leave a wait if you want to hear what people are saying I think the body language and the facial reactions of the candidates were probably the most interesting thing that happened watching Donald Trump sort of quietly fuming trying to keep his temper occasionally sort of smirking a little bit but but really clearly being rattled by kamla Harris's different attacks was absolutely fascinating he wouldn't look at her at all um he'd obviously been told to make sure he didn't you know explode with temper and he was sort of barely keeping it in well she was I mean she looked strong confident I mean arguably a little bit strident sometimes too smiley I thought you know she didn't look as though she was always necessarily taking it quite seriously enough danger of looking a little bit smug but yeah I think it was all in the body language in this debate yeah she laughed after the eating the pets thing which I think she probably could have come out and said you know that's super weird or something like you know reinforce one of their C their campaign messages but like just from the get-go she came across the stage reached out her hand and shook Donald Trump's hand and introduced herself cuz I never met in person but that was like setting the scene KLA Harris what's up Good to Be to see you have fun thank you and then obviously Joe Biden in that first debate in June whenever the camera wasn't on him Donald Trump was talking he had the kind of like open-mouth vacant look on his face uh KLA Harris clearly rehearsed the kind of uh arched eyebrows quizzical bemused look whenever Donald Trump was talking and uh and then when she was talking Donald Trump like like you said just sat there and scowled and looked angry and his eyes were to little slits so from a body language perspective I I think that tells you a lot about how the debate was going and the strategy behind the kamla Harris campaign to kind of paint her as the one who's cool and collected and in charge and it made every one of the Jabs that pushed Donald Trump up up up higher higher higher spinning more and more in kind of an angry rage it just highlighted that difference and and made it all the more pronounced yeah absolutely this was the prosecutor um that she is with all of those kind of courtroom skills Prosecuting the case against Donald Trump and doing it doing it quite aggressively but pretty effectively I think so Mariana from the other side of the pond I were you picking up at all on the the body language and on the way this this campaign this debate played out uh words aside yeah I think this is a helpful moment to bring in my favorite people the undercover voters and because I've been looking at how this has been unfolding on their social media feeds and and exactly what you've both been saying really those moments of laughter or reaction or looking at the camera or responding to one another tend to be the things that have been pop up on the social media feeds of the voters whether you love Donald Trump or whether you love kamla Harris or you don't like either of them or know who you're going to vote for um and I think that tells us about the kinds of clips that go viral it's it's the reactions and the emotion and the person that often succeed in getting kind of picked up by and pushed by the algorithm as opposed to policy points or it's the stuff that is very unusual for example the cat eating unfounded claims and things like that that also get a lot of traction it doesn't tend to be those more new wants kind of points about policy or all the bits that people might think are a bit boring and maybe that doesn't come as much of a surprise um and just to really quickly bring it back to Taylor Swift because you left me a question Sarah you said how many followers does she have she has 283 million Instagram followers and already her Instagram post endorsing kamla Harris has had 3.7 million likes it was posted um a couple of hours ago now um and interestingly I just had another message from a Swifty who said to me um I'm so oh my gosh I'm so happy I'm not surprised but I thought she'd do it closer to the election um just to bring it about to Taylor Swift again are you guys surprised about the timing did you think it would be later well I wonder if I mean it could have been a bigger moment for the Harris campaign I guess if they sort of unveiled her at a surprise Rally or something like that I I I think it's probably clear it's not coordinated between them that Taylor Swift did this without necessarily um talking to the campaign about it maybe she'll appear maybe I'll have to go to Every camela haris rally between now and the election just in case there's a Taylor Swift Cameo appearance you never know I mean it's possible she got caught up in the moment you know she saw the debate and was like oh I really want to be a part of this uh and and so she did that and maybe it will help Focus the attention of her supporters of her fans on what is going to be really a wealth of positive news coverage for KLA Harris so if there's a strategy behind it I think that's probably it and have been pouring through the likes on her Instagram post looking at various celebrities you know who have been who have been in favor you know who have been liking this and and and offering their support so it's kind of an interesting uh list of of people Caitlyn Clark I think the basketball player she she liked it might tell you a little bit more about some endorsements that are going to come out yeah there's um so I was just looking at it you've got people like Blake Lively lady gagar Chrissy Tegan Selina Gomez Jen Jennifer Aniston people who kind of are um often interacting with tlor Swift on social media too um but it does show the kinds of people that are of this particularly perhaps not liking the childless cat lady stuff too yeah and that presumably that means when people like that who also have millions of followers and a huge fan base themselves like things like that that means it's traveling sort of pretty much across the internet doesn't it Mariana you understand these things better than I no no it it does it it means it boosts the algorithm really so these people have got huge numbers of of followers and when they I mean if they reshare it that obviously just Direct direct ly shares it to more people but if they like it it kind of boosts the algorithm in in people's feeds so there'll be a lot of people going to bed who the first thing at the top of their Instagram feeds will be this post and it's interesting that that's where Taylor Swift has chosen to post this as well um it's like it's now obviously spreading to all kinds of other social media sites where people are giving their takes and this is where the Swifty Army come in because they'll then be screen grabbing it and commenting on it and and sharing all their own takes on Tik Tok or other places and that helps to spread it far and wide again Unsure how many Trump supporters that will necessarily reach because for example my undercover voters that are right leaning they're not necessarily on the side of we call it social media where Taylor Swift would be popping up but I have already seen on a political Gabriella's feed that she has had the Taylor Swift stuff pop up so that maybe tells us that it's the undecided people the people kind of thinking oh I'm not sure how I think who might be getting this kinds of content and Sarah that's something that you know those of us who have covered politics a long time look for because sometimes we can get in our bubble and we fixate on every little peram of the race and we forget that there are millions tens of millions of people who just are not tuning into politics and not really paying attention and it is those stories and those moments that break into the wider Consciousness uh that have resonance and actually affect politics as Biden's debate performance definitely became a bigger story than just oh another presidential debate and maybe this will help Elevate kamla Harris's performance so that it's on the radar of people who were not sitting down in front of their TV exactly at 9:00 Eastern Time to watch the debate and and laugh and point and say all the things with their friends that they were thinking but the people who were not tuned in but now are going to see these clips and see these moments and it's going to start to pull them a little more into this race in the next two months I didn't think camela Harris had any standout can of Zing onliners I thought maybe she would have rehearsed a couple more like that so although she put in a very strong performance and for my money was the clear Victor of this debate I can't think of sort of just one or two neat lines that sum up how well she did so I don't yes I mean presumably there there are some amusing ones of Donald Trump that'll travel um yeah I don't I don't I don't know what you would pull out of it as to to demonstrate um how she managed to Rattle Donald Trump there's maybe yeah there's maybe one about how he's disrespected on the world stage and all the autocrats and dictators in the world want to reelected so they can manipulate him but right and the crowd size and the people leaving at the end of his rallies you know yeah that really that amped up his his anger level noticeably I'm going to actually do something really unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch and what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom first let me respond this to the rallies she said people start leaving people don't go to her rallies there's no reason to go and the people that do go she's busting them in and paying them to be there and then showing them in a different light so she can't talk about that people don't leave my rallies and for all that Donald Trump's complaining that he got a hard time for the moderators they let him chip in far more often than she managed to and there were several occasions when they were supposed to move on to the other topic and he insisted on grabbing an extra couple of minutes and getting the last word on almost everything as he was so insistent on getting in and they weren't able to stop him although I'm not sure it did him particularly any good no exactly I mean letting him talk I think may have been a sign that that you know that that they were tilting the the plane field in favor of KLA Harris not helping him out but I mean this is we'll see where the campaign goes from here but I think it was a very historic night an eventful night uh a night that I think the Harris campaign is going to be really thrilled with we'll see if they can take advantage of that in the days ahead now before we go I should direct you that if you want to know more about any of this do go to BBC News website because there you'll find detailed BBC analysis on the latest pooling who's ahead in the swing States and all that kind of thing by our data journalism colleagues have a look for us election polls who's ahead Harris or Trump and as always you can get in touch with us at a variety of different means you can join our online community uh at Discord the link is in the description of this podcast you can send us a message or a voice note via WhatsApp plus44 33123 9480 email americast bbc.co or reach us on social media with # americ [Music] oh