'Borderlands' Is A Disappointing Adaptation | Movie Review with GUEST: Christian Spicer from DLC

you welcome to the filmcast review of Borderlands I'm going to read the plot summary of this movie from the internet returning to her home planet Pandora an Infamous Bounty Hunter forms an unexpected alliance with a ragtag team of Misfits joining us for our conversation about Borderlands he is the co-host of the awesome video game podcast DLC which by the way is also co-hosted by one of the filmcast Coes Chef Gata Christian Spicer welcome back to the filmcast happy to be here uh thanks for having me back I always love talking movies with you all and I'm excited to follow in Tim's footsteps man that was a fun episode so I'm happy to you know keep that energy going absolutely well we're glad to have you now very much looking forward to the song that you contribute to the show oh just wait me me me it's all in the voice of clap trap so get ready um so anyway uh let's start by talking about Borderlands you know you we we have two veritable video game experts here with us today which is quite a blessing let's talk about the Borderlands video games uh I'm curious what your relationship has been to Borderlands as a video game um but also if you have anything to say about like Borderlands place in the video game Universe Christian you want to kick us off here yeah that's a great question I I have played all the Borderlands including the most recent Tiny Tina's Wonderland Adventure Tiny Tina something Jeff what was it something like that Wonderland I think it's just T is Wonderland Wonderland a really fun kind of spin-off offshoot that brought a lot of um D and D kind of aesthetic to the game I even played it on the PS Vita the Borderlands 2 port on Playstation Vita which was a not a good Port but it felt uh very cool to have at the time and then Borderland 3 the most recent in the franchise itself I didn't love I felt the humor felt outdated it felt sophomoric in a way that hadn't grown up with the rest of us and while the mechanics were still there I didn't love what it was saying otherwise but I think the franchise is an important one for games because I think it did so much in terms of the looter shooter genre that exists today for folks that don't know it's games like Destiny is very much in the first person and then it's kind of taking the Diablo approach if folks know that game where you're constantly getting new weapons New Gear upgrading your character and it brought that over to a first-person shooter perspective a game like Halo or Call of Duty and so Borderlands kind of marrying those two genres together was incredible at the time I mean absolutely incredible the amount of weapons you'd have in it constantly leveling up seeing the numbers flying off of enemy characters was very common in games like like Diablo or action RPGs but wasn't as common in these first-person shooters and Borderlands doing that it it it felt like a revolution you see it in all sorts of games now even games that aren't meant to be a collectathon the way Borderlands is and it brought in this art style originally it was debuted with this very Brown Gears of War style graphic setting that kind of looked like the the graphic dour of the time kind of uninspired and then it went away for bit and came back with this cell shaded cartoon comic book aesthetic that leaned into its sense of humor at the time and it knocked people's socks off there have been so many since then of Borderlands and a lot of half sequels and pre-sequels and all these expansions but at the time what Borderlands did it can't be uh overstated how much it brought to the industry when it did he Christian did you play The Telltale uh Borderlands uh adventure oh that was great cuz supposedly that was the game that convinced gearbox that this could be a movie mhm oh that's interesting I started it I don't recall I think it was five chapters and it was episodic and I don't know if I finished it yeah that was I know that I did not finish it but I did play some of it yeah uh so and and lutter shooter yeah just just toh further clarify what Christian was referring to is essentially like uh you are this character you kind of uh shoot enemies take their weapons increase your own abilities you find uh you loot things you find treasures and whatever you basically like build up your character and uh it's there's no like definite ending of the story necessarily in that serious right you're just kind of like Borderlands has a campaign that has a beginning middle and end right right right um that's true that's true uh I I did play Borderlands 3 with my brother um and that was uh really enjoyable because you're kind of like you're kind of going into this world together and shooting things and picking up bonuses um I guess jefff I was referring more to the end game like after you're done with the campaign you'd still you would still basically like continue to build your character over time um but I think you know some of the things that uh make these looter shooters really appealing feel like they would not necessarily translate well to movies right like you it's kind of this open world you can choose your own adventure you can decide where to go and it's like that's literally the opposite of what a movie is like Jeff not uh Curious like what your relationship to Borderlands has been and and um you know if you have any thoughts on the I have a a vivid memory of sitting in a behind closed doors presentation for the first Borderlands before it had years before it came out or maybe two years before it came out uh when they were just just had revealed it it did not have the uh the aesthetic change that Christian described where it moved into this more vibrant color palette uh and but they were just showing the fact that this game is going to have hundreds of thousands of different permutations of a gun yeah that was what they were hanging their hat on and it I remember walking out of that with the totally rad show guys at the time when we were doing that show and going this isn't gonna work this game is gonna flop this is terrible and uh because at that time when you played a first-person shooter you there were like a there was the the guns that you could get in the game the weapons you could get in the game were few you know there were eight maybe in the whole game you know Magnum shotgun AK-47 sniper rifle yeah it was very uh it really was a different way of looking at it and it just didn't seem like it was going to work out at all and of course couldn't have been more wrong but um uh you know the game went on to uh to great a claim it's tons of fun a great game in Co-op big open world goofy post-apocalyptic very much a tongue-in cheek world and I do think it is worth noting the thing that I mentioned which I had read somewhere that um the folks at gearbox were reluctant to even do a Borderlands movie until they had done uh an adventure game which is very much not the mechanics we're talking about very much not a lutter shooter it is a story based kind of Choose Your Own Adventure uh dialogue heavy exper experience and uh I think that's an interesting you know they that game exists that Telltale version of Borderlands exists because over time and sequels uh the Borderlands Universe was peopled with these wacky offbeat characters that were pretty memorable to a lot of people uh like Tiny Tina and uh you know these these kind of wacky outsized um uh you know post-apocalyptic you know very very very much taking cues from Mad Max and being Larger than Life and kind of um grotesque in a certain tongue and cheek way um and I think that is ultimately what this movie is trying to create or trying to mine not necessarily the mechanics of the Bas series but the tapestry upon which that that series is set all right well let's get into the movie itself uh I I mean I think it's safe to say our expectations for this one were set pretty low uh the movie had a very low Rotten Tomato score it was widely reported to be a disaster some people calling it the worst movie of the year but Christian Spicer is Borderlands really that bad worst movie of the year I cannot attest to folks that listen to DLC know we need do our favorite game of the year it's always based on an incomplete sampling because we cannot play every video game so worst movie of the year incomplete sampling I am a guest on a movie podcast I am not a regular on a movie podcast yeah we're the experts here we will be able to tell you it's that's that's fair I shouldn't have even asked you the question Christian that's my bad but I mean again expert podcast guest um working with an amateur podcast host apparently uh but we're going to make it work we're going to make it work David um so worst move of the year I cannot say disappointed pretty big disappointment I will say I I wasn't going in with high expectations but I like to hold out hope because I do think the universe is fun the um cast is a murderer's row of talent and so I was holding out hope that it would rise above what the early uh chatter was suggesting it was and for me it it did not rise above that early internet chatter I I left uh pretty disappointed in in what I saw what what disappointed you uh Christian what what what were you hoping for or what do you think the movie didn't do well great question I think for I should back up a little bit I'm not trying to disparage anybody's work on the film whenever people critique something it's like well people poured their heart and soul into this art I understand that I'm not trying to take anything away from that uh work that went into making this so this is just my opinion and and what I watched but I it looked to me like a fan film The aesthetic the costuming looked like incredible Hall h uh costume cosplay costumes and I think the whole um veneer of the film kind of had that look the stuff on um green screen or sha in the vault or however it was created there's a action sequence where the character Quest volume thank you where the the the characters look like Toby Maguire uh 2002 Sam Rainey Spider-Man you know style of of Animation there were constantly things that would pull me out of even this you know big bombastic popcorn flick that just didn't feel um put together in a way that was cohesive for the whole so that was one and then I thought the story was largely nonsensical but also not fun enough to just be we good time I just want to see crap get blown up I don't care what's happening Deadpool and Wolverine for me loved that movie but the plot I didn't care about right it was fine but I loved everything else about that movie and Borderlands wasn't that either so that plus a plot that didn't make sense which maybe we can talk about in spoilers um just kind of left me feeling very flat about it there was there was nothing for me to hang my hat on and be like that was it wasn't funny I don't know there there wasn't any there there for me yeah Jeff uh Canada can I go to you next what what did you think about Borderlands of the movie well Dave I guess you could say what I thought about Borderlands the movie is best summed up in the form of a limi all right let's hear it Jeff they all say this film is sub par but I find that assessment bizarre where else can you get sci-fi Blanchet a gun A gun toing Lydia tar here's how I would describe Borderlands what if in 1985 marel stre played red Sonia sure yes uh-huh okay yeah that would be pretty interesting right I think that would for me that would be pretty interesting the greatest actress of her generation sluming it in a genre goofy genre thing to me is inherently interesting just that fact alone doesn't matter how she does in the thing I think she's I think she's incredibly watchable and she is playing the part with gusto I loved watching Kate Blanchett in this movie I honestly I I did go in with very very bottom of the basement expectations so that I'm sure plays a a large part in my take but I kind of don't understand what everybody else was watching I had fun with this movie clap TR trap I prepared myself for this clap trap is legitimately funny Jack Black as clap trap is legitimately funny to me I was laughing there's a several moments where I laughed out loud I I don't like is this mov is better than Rebel Moon hell of a lot better than trap it's there's like half a dozen movies uh that we all watch this Summer that I think this movie is more fun than better in what's like what what what are you saying better though it doesn't it never insulted my intelligence it never it it never let him finish let him finish let him finish I was having a good time is it goofy yes are the games goofy is the source material goofy yes it's the like I feel like I'm going to be saying all the things you said to me during trap to you like the point what you think are flaws is the point like that's what it's attempting to be it's attempting to be this B movie and it just happens to have a plus actors doing that which I find to be incredibly comp in like put a the greatest actor of her generation is what I consider K Blanchett to be or among the greatest actors of her generation sure uh give her subpar material sure I'm not gonna argue that this is Shakespeare I'm not GNA even argue it's you know a great movie but it's pulpy and and it doesn't take itself seriously at all it's having a good time it's being goofy there I mean there's a there's a urine field in this movie like it it's it's not trying to you know it's it's embracing its be movess in the same way you guys told me trap did and I I had fun I laughed I I loved watching an an actor like EMB like honestly when I heard Kate Blanchett was goingon to be in this movie I thought oh man that's going to be a really cool 10 minutes of this movie you know she's gonna Gad her the [ __ ] out of this movie you know but no she's the main freaking character she's in almost every frame of this movie and she's there like putting in the work and I'm down for it so I know I'm gonna be the lone voice of hey I had a good time I I'm not arguing that this is better than furiosa or Fallout the TV show or any of the other you know sort of comparable experiences even this year it's not as good but you could do a hell of a lot worse and I did not feel like my hour 47 or whatever it was was wasted I I really smiled enough to give this one a fairly positive review wow I was with you through the K Blanchett stuff by the way jefff just just to be clear and then and then I kind of jumped off the train I want to read a quote that K lanchette gave uh about why she took this role I thought it was just very Vivid she says uh the gunslinging stuff was so much fun I got really absorbed in that whole world like she went and played all the video games I think there also may have been a little covid Madness I was spending a lot of time I was spending a lot of time in the garden using the chainsaw a little too freely my husband said this film could save your life end quote um I just like the idea of Kate Blanchette in her garden with a chainsaw and her husband being like maybe you got to get back to work honey you know like Lydia come back yeah the that is what I think is the most fun for me about this whole thing and I tried to express it but maybe a better way of saying it is that she's not phoning it in no I don't think she's there 100% in this movie and like that's a cool thing to see I think I anyway I'll let everybody else talk but that's for me that was enough D your hardar what did you think about Borderlands I'm still trying to reassess what just happened I know I'm five minutes on this podcast um also it's our instigators conversation all over again basically B basically except that was like a middling fine there a thing you guys could disagree on not aiming for the star doesn't sound like the worst ever movie ever made right like I can understand the disagreement there um godd damn Jeff why would you do this to us hey it's like Presumed Innocent right right d we're brothers in in good taste right d no I feel like one of the people that wants to destroy Jake Gyllenhaal and presume this right um no no like I don't I think the idea the idea when we saw the casting initially Kate Blanchett starring Borderland H that's interesting I I would love to see her in a genre movie I hope she's not phoning it in I hope she gets a lot of fun stuff to do and I don't think she gets to do that guys like and it may just be because she just has not had enough time to be in roles like this you know but I can think of actors who can jump into a genre piece and sell you trash and have a lot fun doing it I'm think of like Angelina Jolie in a movie like salt she's having fun she knows what she's doing I totally buy her as salt okay um cap Blanchett sounding like I know the I know the character Lilith I know she's supposed to sound like she's overall this [ __ ] she's a little world weary yeah she's done with she's bored with the world and everything um there's a balance between that and actually being bored and actually being bored of where you are and that's kind of what I got from her I got that honestly from the trailer too and I was hoping that the movie would be a little better but it it isn't really like I WR a review foring Gadget I think like the the main takeaway I had is like this is a huge waste of potential yeah the idea of Kate Blanchett starring the Borderland movie could be cool if um it was directed by somebody who had like any idea of what they were doing I think this movie sold like really confirmed to me that Eli Roth is just a bad Storyteller I don't like his movies in general and we have talked about him for so long everyone's like oh man this Eli rothy his hostile movie Crazy movie uh super talented guy I never really liked hostle he became kind of a voice in the horror like Community like he has stuff on shudder like he is a voice he's a presence I liked him in the glorious bastards as like that as a character in glorious bastards but there is very little like decent storytelling in this movie and what what really disappoints me is that it just feels so lazy like you have cap lanchette in a crazy Gunslinger role like this and you're just not doing much with it the action is boring as hell um everything she's saying she's supposed to sound bored but it's not even like entertainingly bored we've seen characters like this all the time doesn't really make sense Kevin Hart as pretty much the straight man in this movie why would you even do that it's an odd choice that IE why would you do that Kevin har is the most uh baffling thing about this movie at least let him be CL like he could be a good clap trap I didn't need another Jack Black like you know in a video game thing he could have been clap trap um I think it feels like every choice made in this movie just feels incredibly lazy and misguided I don't think Eli Roth has a sense of like what to do with this world he's not like coming into this as like a big Borderlands fan or something because he probably would have respected it a little more um the script is a complete mess like the fact that one person took their name off of it like the story is Craig Mason uh showrunner of The Last of Us and Chernobyl like did a script took his name like off of this project entirely we don't know exactly who's behind the script doesn't feel like Craig Mason's work though it feels like it it feels like something just hacked up to an insane degree like if you're going to be a cool I don't know buddy romp comedy sci-fi thing like you you should the character should be fun the Char character should be interesting we have characters who just appear they run into a character oh I guess you're part of you're in our party now for the rest of the movie are you going to have any dialogue are you going to like have any sense of growth or personality no no you're just a big guy who's here because they're in the games and he's here now and he's helping us on this journey like this nothing really makes sense in this movie I wish the action was was more interesting I wish like the set design was interesting I wish it looked cooler I wish the costumes were better what the hell is Jam Lee Curtis doing in this movie I don't know um it is just like a complete waste of time and potential because you got all these good pieces so yeah I actually feel bad Jeff when I see Kate Blanchett in a role like this because she could be doing so much more at least like if in better hands she could like they they could have found the potential of what she could do here um I think of a movie like The Dungeons and Dragons movie that we talked about from was it last year that is how you kind of do this with understanding fun movie understanding of the material fun characters you want to see them hang out um this movie has kind of none of that it just feels lazy on every level to me so I'm glad you enjoyed it Jee but my God man my God I do think the script was I don't have any evidence for this but it does feel like the script was taped together kette has a long narration at various times that doesn't necess it doesn't seem to be like it's trying to be that genre of film where you have a lot of lead character narration I am imagine in a version of the script the character of Roland was different than how he's portrayed I also think the character of Knox had more substantial screen time than how they were portrayed it does feel like there was something ger here or very different that then they made into this whatever it was 900 minute movie and PG-13 feels like it should be an R-rated movie if you really want to like Let your freak flag fly with this whole thing should be R-rated this movie Lost me early on when um cap lanchette is narrating things happening on the screen when a movie is doing that yeah I went to this place I talk to these kids we see her going to a place talking to the kids they tell her what to do and then she immediately says again in the narration like you're talking about not trusting our intelligence Jeff like that is that is the red flag of just like oh you can't the movie The Producers or whoever is not even allowed to like even let the movie sit and breathe and just watch us have the characters have dialogue and have those scenes play through you gotta you gotta narrate the scenes as well just to make sure people understand it's baffling everything about this movie is baffling I will say this I didn't hate as much as Rebel Moon thank you thank you we we can dingra agrees with me like high five with just our pinkies right Jeff I haven't seen Rebel Moon so I'll throw that out there as well it doesn't that's the thing I think that the reason I'm pushing back on the just uh Title Wave of hate that seems to be crashing down upon this movie I I can't dance on its grave even though it is a massive flop at this point I I can't dance on its grave because I really don't think it is as egregious as everyone makes it out to be I don't think it's as egregious as for example the second Rebel Moon movie which is just an atrocious affront to everything that you expect from a competent film this I feel like this is exactly what Dave described uh instigators as earlier in this episode it's it's completely inoffensive to me it's a perfectly cromulent film and I know you guys don't let it think it hits that bar but for me I was like I kept waiting for it to [ __ ] the bed I kept waiting for it to do something that was somehow so much more egregious to to raise it to this like worst movie of the year status and it's just not that dumb it it's not great I'm not saying I loved the experience but I had a f enough time that's all I'm saying go ahead Dave yeah yeah uh you know dindra first of all well delivered rent you're forcing me to use a phrase that I hope to never ever use again in the rest of my life which is the following in defense of Eli Roth you know this movie was filmed in 2021 like it wrapped in June of 2021 during Co and then had re-shoot in uh in January or early 2023 directed by Tim Miller because Eli Ralph was working on Thanksgiving which by the way I've heard great movie haven't seen it yet but I've heard that that's actually pretty solid horror film uh pretty wild that uh everybody on the set of Borderlands could have turned to J Curtis and went you are going to win an Academy Award you been like what by the time this movie comes out you will be an Academy Award winner what right she won an Academy Award between the time when the movie was finished and when it released um and then yeah during 2023 also Craig Mason removed his name from the project so who who knows what has happened in that time what kind of Studio meddling there has been sure um I I have to imagine that this was not Eli Roth's original Vision now that said who knows if his original Vision was any good I think that per what Christian was saying one of the big issues with this movie is the voiceover really indicate really indicates some of the movie's big shortcomings so for those who don't know the movie opens with this big voiceover by caply chat basically introducing the premise of the games it's like there's these vaults and they have Treasures in them and all this other and it's like a very very clunky also we're about the alien world Pandora but not that Pandora this is another Pandora okay yeah it's it's it's they don't eat your eyes like Juju bees here that's different it is extremely clunky it feels like they just shove in all this kind of plot into this voice and it's like I I can't imagine that that was the most elegant way to communicate all that stuff and the problem is that that's kind of what the movie hangs its Stakes on is is is like this whole Vault idea and them getting into the Vault and whether they get into the Vault and what they find in the vault and without going to spoilers yet I'll just say that it does not play out in a very satisfying way and so I think like it it feels like as as Christian said a script that feels taped together that feels like oh 18 people had a shot at like editing this thing and and taking stuff out and putting stuff in and what we have is a final film that's basically just nothing right it's I I would kind I would agree with Jeff to the extent that I think it's inoffensive I I'm not like and we've seen this happen before where sometimes the it feels like the press and the public smell blood in the water and they just Converge on a movie there's like a dog piling um now dindra I'm not I'm not taking away from everything you said which I think is heartfelt and like comes from your genuine reaction but I do feel like there is a like dog in of you know certainly it's fun it's fun to troll on Borderlands that is what a lot of people are doing right now but it's not as if this movie is innocent that's all I'm saying that's the thing is I I would not describe it as a good movie and I think like and people love the Borderlands games like that's the other thing too like it's not just being a bad movie it's not Rebel Moon can just be a bad movie and it's its own original thing and I don't have any attachment to those characters of that world or anything but a lot of people U myself incl have spent a lot of time in this world you guys brought up the tales of the Borderland stuff I just I totally forgot that existed but I loved that series like it was a really well-directed really well-written way of approaching the Borderlands Universe like they should have just adapted that like if you had adapted that that would have been a thing that would have been something interesting um and that was a great way to bring in new players too um before we get to spoilers I guess I just want to ask you guys is there anything specifically dindra and Christian like is there anything you think this movie did particularly bad or uh adapted from the video games in a particularly bad way you know what I'm saying like what what is it that was from the games that you think to yourself oh man I wish they had done better honor to that component of the games um that you don't feel as represented here I mean you go go ahead Christian I got a few I I I uh I write a newsletter about video games uh Christian Spicer substack they're very conversational and I'm thinking about writing a longer piece about this because I think this is an excellent question and I I I wonder if video games are better currently better adapted into TV shows than movies I've been fortunate to be a guest on this show a couple of times and usually it's for video game movies that aren't that great there's been some video game movies that are great but so far we kind of still live in the world where the video game movies aren't fantastic and the video game TV shows recently are knocking it out of the park right and I think the biggest offense qu unquote that this movie does to the the video games is it doesn't spend enough time in the world so much of what I find enjoyable about the Borderlands world and universe is the amount of time you spend there with these characters and clap trap you know goes on this Bell curb of being like barely noticeable to oh my gosh kill me now you are so annoying to now this is funny because it's been around for so long and you know you ride this wave of emotion with these characters and games you play these games for like 30 40 50 hours sometimes right so it's like you're in this world for a really long amount of time anyway and often times as you played Borderlands 3 Dave with a buddy I Borderlands I use this term a lot on DLC I think is a perfect golf game a game where you and your friends are hanging out chitchatting you can miss pieces of the story because you're there for The Vibes you're there for the world you're there for all the gear you're getting and I don't think this movie had enough of that I think the Fallout TV show had that in Spade you know just it Liv lived in that world and in that Vibe and this movie for whatever reason it shortcuts you in it doesn't explain what everything is it kind of alludes to all these weapons with um oh man his I'm blanking on um the actor's name but the the weapon dealer who also is the bus driver it kind of eludes to all that stuff but you don't have the fun of the games I think is missing from the movie and so that to me felt like the biggest o I wish it did this and it doesn't it reminded me of a time when where you just didn't give a crap about like the stuff from the games it reminded me of like earlier eras of adapting it felt like like something that would be come out in like the 80s or 90s right like the Super Mario Brothers movie or you know like where where there people are are like oh we got to sanitize this for the masses we can't people can't people uh Borderlands the video game's too edgy for the masses so we gota like can't see other Vault Hunters going around or something they can't really spend time with the psychos or let's let's just see like a thousands of guns that's not a hard like that's a you can demonstrate some of that stuff uh in a in a movie I'd say I I'd say it a little differently I I I don't think you guys are wrong about that I I'd say it slightly differently in that I don't think the world as depicted in this film is distinct enough and interesting uh I already sort of mentioned the the urine field sequence which I think is the most interesting part of the world uh that as shown right there's they do some interesting stuff with the psychos there's a really ith thought pretty fun sequence with the psychos um but like it it really doesn't take time to show me why this world is different from Mad Max or Fallout or any of the other Myriad you know post-apocalyptic desert wastelands that we see depicted in media and and and that's a shame now do I think the video games do that particularly well either I don't know I mean I think the characters are fun in the video games and I think some of the characters are fun in this movie for me but I do think that ultimately borderland's identity as a postapocalyptic wasteland isn't particularly distinct so I don't know if the source material would have even helped find that for this movie I just wish they they I I do think it's a a problem that the the the pl that we are in here feels so generic and I I do think that's a problem people make the place yes I think that that's Fallout right Fallout is a post-apocalyptic Wasteland and it doesn't really mean anything without Ghouls and the Brotherhood of Steel and you know those those characters that you get to meet and spend a lot of time with and when you're playing the game Adventure and discover yourself I I think the I think the Game World yes it's set on this basic premise of Pandora is this Wasteland but again it's the characters and I think it's zanier than Mad Max the vending machines all the other Vault Hunters that you interact with the evil Warlords it's like madmax turned into a cartoon even bigger and then with very in-your-face humor and I think as you spend time with those personalities that's where it becomes special well I would push back on that and to just say that Fallout is interesting because it's what if it's 1950s version of the future as a post-apocalyptic Wasteland that already is more interesting that's that like you you are in this place that has an identity in and of itself it's it's Aussie and Harriet done with Hightech you know you know the VIS world of the future it's world of the future and and so we're already in this distinct thing that has identity so I I I would push back that Fallout does have that because I think it does at the very least the Borderlands games were funny the first one certainly was really funny I think it it kind of distinct itself with decent writing at a time where video game writing especially video game humor was was not as intelligent I'd say I mean I think that's one of the big issues with this movie it's clearly kind of aspiring to be a Guardians of the Galaxy style oh look at this band of Misfits that's thrown together by circumstance uh and the chemistry just doesn't really work in my opinion like that's that's the issue if if like the chemistry is great between these characters and I was I found it believable and Charming I I think I'd be able to overlook a lot of the movie's problems but fundamentally uh I just don't think it works particularly well and it's hard to Define what it is about it that doesn't work you know but it's just like yeah something up with the script or the The Chemistry Between the actors uh I'm not sure but whatever the case it doesn't really come together uh anyway go go ahead Jeff well I don't I don't disagree with that either I I I think that there's literally it's Kevin Hart I is I don't know I don't know what he's doing in this movie I think he's trying to prove that he can be sort of just a leading man right and but what is even his character doing in this movie right I don't I I don't know I I I the only thing I'll push back on is I do think there is a fun for me there was a fun dynamic between jam Lee Curtis and Kate Blanchett I liked that their interplay they had a couple of scenes where they were doing back and forth and and Jim Curtis is doing a very you know stylized character and I I don't know I had fun with it and I thought the the young woman who played uh Tiny Tina Arena green blad's great yeah yeah is great she and and they like made her zany and fun in a zany fun way and she's got this you know big dumb silent sidekick agreed much more could have been made of that character and we could have known literally anything about it there's a moment where it's mask breaks and and I was like oh are we going to find out something about no but but uh but yeah so I don't disagree with that another shortcoming movie that has many shortcomings but I did think there were some dynamics that were interesting enough all right well uh let's get to spoilers for Borderlands starting right now we're in spoilers for Borderlands right now now I think one of my issues with the ending of this movie is the whole thing about K Planet being the chosen one and then like the wings coming out and so you know so on I thought it didn't the whole sequence didn't look very good it looked like it was all shot on green screen or the volume and then they go inside the Vault and I'm like what is this and it's all these Treasures but it's so abstract that none of it really makes any kind of emotional impact Jeff Canada I'm curious uh how you felt about the ending of the movie uh I mean I guess I didn't have as violent a reaction as you to that I do think it's not a strong ending um you know the thing that bothered me the most honestly is that at the very very end when like fireworks are going off it's like who who's celebrating this thing that no one would know about what that that's the thing that like I think they're supposed to have built up the atlas guy as this kind of big bad and the fact that he's dead everyone celebrate but it's like the movie does none of that work right to no I agree with that to lay that track it's like it's not it's not a great ending uh I just didn't it didn't jar me enough to to hate the movie I I I thought you know the all the stuff of Kate Blanchett being the the chosen one and you know the daughter of the planet or whatever it is saw it coming a mile away obviously right it's there's it's pretty clear so you know it's not great uh but again there's some fun stuff that happens that you know I I don't know I I just didn't didn't hate it enough to hate it I I just thought it was a pretty Pat predictable ending that you know is par for the course for a sort of b-level midling sci-fi movie and and I just I I had enough fun honestly I had enough fun along the way with clap trap and with Kate Blanchett and with Jam Lee Curtis to forgive its shortcomings to much more than you guys I see them I'm not blind to this movie's shortcomings I don't think it's a great movie I just honestly I'm I'm here to say I don't think it's the worst movie ever made and I and I honestly don't think it's devoid of fun and joy like I had a good time I I la I laughed at some of its gags I keep coming back to that urine field thing I thought that was pretty one minute Jeff one minute of this movie but there's like tons of I thought that the the raid on the the psychos was was fun and clap trap having to go in and and sure be distra honestly I think there there's a new litmus test for this movie it's called the clap trap test and whether you found clap trap to be funny or charming will dictate whether you like this movie I did not laugh a single time at clap trap for the entire movie so it perfectly fine I thought the uh CG was actually very good on clap trap I thought it was very convincing but I like no one I I was in a packed theater no one left the entire film yeah it was brutal je Jeff you brought um you brought up trap in relation to this movie let me tell you something Jeff watching trap my audience is like in tune in sync with what is going on with this movie yeah there's a lot of stupid [ __ ] yeah some things don't make sense but the audience was eating it up because we're like this is this is a great experience um I not a very full screening of Borderlands but I was struck by just the Dead Silence the Dead Silence throughout the entire movie and then ended it's true I got up I looked around and it's just a lot of Geeks just like either like getting ready to get the hell out of there or like just abject disappointment just like you could see it on their faces like what did you what did you do to my boy it's kind of what I'm feeling like here I I I can see how you're comparing to trap but I do feel like there is an intense to build like a of heightened reality and I think at the very least as an artist as a Creator like Shaman like is in tune with what's doing there and is in tune with like what an audience wants I guess I didn't feel like anything any aspect of this movie The Action um I wish clay Blanchett was more I wish Jack Black's dialogue was funnier I wish J Curtis had more to do I just it all felt like a whiff on every single level like that's I guess that's the big difference there like I don't feel like elith was in control of this thing maybe it's not entirely his fault but also I went back and I thought how many elith things do I actually like turns out none of them maybe knock knock there is knock knock which was a lot of fun but that's it this guy's been around for a while so I don't know I just I felt like nothing and the the the lack of emotion that I felt I think that to me was just very telling like I I would have loved more I got to say I did have fun watch like we don't really get to see Cape Lanette in this mode very much in this mode like Ragnarok Indiana Jones you knowon Ragnarok right but like but yeah if this is the price we have to pay to watch cap Blanchet kick ass I don't pay it gladly um but I pay this is my point but it's not you just mentioned two other movies where she does it that are good movies it's literally not the not the Indiana Jones one maybe but at least I would rather rewatch that you know Crystal Skull rather than whatever the hell is going on the re-release they did of that on Disney plus that like fixed up the C G's it's an improvement really Chris yeah go ahead let me ask you something my my co-host my longtime friend My Pal my buddy did you laugh at CL trap no not once dude I was laughing the first moment he he pops out and he's like I'm supposed to be super polite to you when you're you're a terrible person I thought that was all fun when you uh when you were defending clap trap earlier you might not have heard Christian said oh Jeff yeah yeah yeah which was also my inie I laugh man I thought he was funny for folks who also don't know I I I did stand up for about a decade a bunch of college tours I was fortunate to tour internationally I got to feature for some great Headliners and I got to headline some smaller clubs I had some and you were a robot for like six months I was a robot for about six months I'm not saying that everybody would loves my comedy I'm not saying that everybody saw me love my comedy comedy is is hard and I feel like where this movie made a mistake and I'd love to go through some other uh spoilery problems I think I see I had with the film but with this movie I think made the mistake in comedy is that it tried to release the tension by having the characters hate the comedy and that allowed me to hate the comedy everybody on screen hated clap trap no one was happy he was there no one was laughing at his jokes it was uh you know oil and water and it never mixed right and that's how the jokes landed to me it's like oh this is totally incorrect for this moment this isn't supposed to be happening when he's pooping out the bullet shells in yeah they sent him in to die in that that scene like he right just go die Fu clap trap it's byebye and I feel like that moment alone where he's like pooping out the the shells is is that objectively can that be objectively funny oh I mean yes of course that's that's not the moment that I thought was funny to be clear's the highlights of clap trap Jeff's favorite moment when he poops out the shells but even then they're they're not they're not in on it so it's not fun to watch it it feels like friction and so that's how it felt to me I wasn't laughing at those moments okay but the friction is part of the joke because the whole setup of clap trap is I know you're making a mistake leaving me behind I hey everybody I'm still back here that to me is the funny thing is this like lack of self-awareness which is a classic Trope for comedy of the the thing that like you guys are supposed to all love me what that that I was laughing when he first showed up and I will tell you the the guy next to me in the seat next to me was also laughing what we're learning is that Jeff's laughter is contagious I I think a great comparison Jeff is honestly The Fallout robot like the Fallout robot in the movie in the show Fallout is like hilarious in my opinion because there's something that's really self-aware about clap trap as a robot in this movie right of like oh like he you he knows that is the role he is playing and that releases the tension in a way you know it's not quite what Christian's saying but like along those lines whereas the robot and Fallout is completely oblivious the RO the robot and fall is like oh like I'm just here to do a job like like a normal robot and that's where the humor comes from is like you know but anyway my read on clap trap in this movie and maybe it maybe I'm filling in gaps that the movie wasn't putting it but I thought the premise of clap trap in this movie is my programming says that I have to be your loyal servant but I a complicated AI that has a personality recognize what a terrible person you are so I have this internal conflict that to me was very funny that like I have to do ex everything I want you want me to do and everything that will help you but I hate every second of it because you are awful like that that to me is a funny comedic premise that I thought the movie did a good job articulating but awful based on whom because the whole Kate Blanchett is actually probably better than anyone else on this planet that clap chap would otherwise meet I feel like true that's so true I mean I feel again as you were talking Jeff yeah to answer Dave's opening question no probably not the worst movie of the year certainly not the worst movie ever made in my head it's maybe I'm not trying to pick a fight here with anybody but it's maybe like a red notice or whatever that Netflix movie was with like the Rock and galado and it's like I watched it it's like yeah that was a thing and whatever but like from go and I I do feel like it's probably script or or um the vender as you mentioned notes you know some meddling happening but like from go we see Roland Kevin Hart's character breaking out Tina from this prison with no real reason why why he's trying to break her out he shows some affection for KNX this other person in his unit who gets knocked out but then he leaves her there and he takes Tina to go do this thing that we later learn is to open try to open this Vault and there's a moment where I feel like jam Lee Curtis it's not breaking the fourth wall but kind of talks to us about it or or maybe it's Atlas telling I forget it's maybe it's Atlas telling cap lanchette like oh she's gonna die when you use her as this key and there's a a line where it's like uh I think it is Jam Lee Curtis who says so wait Atlas was gonna use her to open this thing and she's gonna die and now instead you're gonna use her to open this and she's gonna die and jam Lee Curtis is like um Tannis Dr Tannis or whatever character name is like better than him and it's like so you you broke her out of this prison CU her father was going to use her as this key and kill her and now you broke her out of this prison to use her as his key and killer it just nothing kind of new information that they arrived at Tanis always thought she was gonna Tanis yeah Tannis always knew that information and she was the researcher Kevin didn't know that Kevin Hart's the one that broke her out he didn't know that but also don't know if he cared he broke her out to open her to use her as the he wasn't trying to save seemed like their position is can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs their their position is we can't let whatever's in this Vault fall into the hands of the bad guys we gotta let and and and when they discover that she has to die it's a sacrifice for the greater good now listen I find myself doing the Dave Chin thing where it's like I hate that I'm in the position of defending this middling to bad movie but I don't think it's as bad as you guys make it out to that's all I'm saying is it's just not the bottom of the barrel there's there's some fluid in that barrel and that fluid is urine from the urine Fields they oh we can't we can't let these weapons get into the wrong hands they open the vault and inside is a bunch of floating rocks no I agree that's not and this creature that lives there apparently Lilith knows about as she evolved and and then when they um uh uh um Knox you know I have to think it's just played for laugh she's like what she's the antagonist like of the unit that Kevin Hart's character rolling is part of and they're like at odds she fires missiles at all of them to try to kill them constantly through the movie and at the very end when Atlas is like yes kill them she's like no wait I no longer want to kill you and she stands with Roland and then is immediately killed and like I now have a moral compass wh why why does that happen and Tannis Dr Tanis Jam Lee Curtis's character tells Lilith cap lanchette she's like oh wait now I know why your mom gave you to me is to keep you as far away from here as possible cut to 30 seconds later that isn't the reason like that's not what so it's like a false realization that doesn't pay off because she clearly was supposed to open this thing she's the planet Savior and jam Lee Curtis has this false oh now I know it's to keep you out of here she didn't like all nothing starts I think in a way that sets up The Dominoes and at the end The Dominoes just kind of scatter instead of being knocked over in a satisfying way so well I found moments to be engaging the individual pieces never coales and even the the fight with the psychos they run away they get in this elevator it's life or death we got to get this elevator up and Roland sacrifices him go I got you and then cut two Roland survives and how did he survive apparently he just shot the [ __ ] out of them like that was one person shooting them all the time work he he used the exploding stuffed animal to be fair to be but then they kept coming they kept coming after that that was wave one then a whole other wave knocked him OS and it cut back and he gets up from under their bodies yeah so I think that's a really you know solid case against the movie but I I think people understand our our views on this you know like Jeff has done a good job of explaining some of the The Simple Pleasures of the film and I think we've also articulated some of the things that bothered us about the movie and I suspect that some people will actually fall into Jeff Camp about this one you know and and we'll see how the guy next to him at the theater is the guy theater uh but yeah I I agree with everything Christian said there's a lot of problems from the script level and nothing seems to make sense and honestly it really just feels like the result of a bunch of Studio meddling where we have these subplots that never paid off and like why is this paying off in this way it doesn't make any sense why is everyone celebrating at the end like that that's the biggest sign is like there was all this storyline that wasn't told it just it's so odd that was very dumb that was very dumb they're sitting there watching fireworks go off and I'm like what it's meant to evoke right like Star like Return of the Jedi or something right but it's like there's nothing there's nothing there there's no story there anyway uh despite literally everything we've just said at the end of the day it is impressive that Eli Roth and Joe cromby who is the co-credited screenwriter on this movie that apparently does not exist in real life is not Craig Mason suiton himm because he said it wasn't him so that's somebody else I feel like that's doubly impressive it's doubly impressive when a non-existent entity makes a movie it's impressive I think we got to give it even more of a sh it's so I it's kind of a thing where it's like I didn't know that that was even allowed to happen still you know like but anyway it's that Eli Roth and Joe cromby the co- can I can I like disavow your statement though okay don't impr made this it is impressive I don't I don't think there's anything praiseworthy here about other other than Eli Roth being like you know I have some pull and I can do a video game thing well at the end of the day it's impressive that Eli Roth and Joe cromby to it's impressive to some of us that Eli Eli Roth and Joe cromi made a movie thank you so much for watching this video of the filmcast check out these other videos that we have available and be sure to hit like subscribe and hit that Bell icon to get other videos from us in the future you can also go to the filmcast dcom to you catch all of our audio podcast versions of all of our episodes and support this podcast at patreon.com film podcast where you can sign up for adree episodes and exclusive after darks thanks so much to everyone who makes the filmcast 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