Going against the grain with rehab Chiro Jeremy Dinkin

hey welcome to another episode of badass clinician podcast last week I had the pleasure of going to see my friend Jeremy Durkin down in South Jersey we record a great podcast for you guys uh Jeremy's a chiropractor he's a rehab chiropractor so he does a lot of movement uh just knowing from Instagram you don't know him on Instagram make sure you check him out uh the link is in in the show note but we discuss various thing of how he started out uh pretty much in the middle of covet and I was able to grow his practice now to now he's ready to take on to the clinician so I hope you guys enjoyed this a lot of lesson in there and a lot of inspiration as well what do you learn and what would you say for people who are looking to form some sort of partnership well first and foremost I rushed into that one yeah so I got out of school I went on like a couple interviews and I was like I hate this I got to start my own thing so started my practice but I had nowhere to go got the LLC I was like ready to rock and my old strength and conditioning coach from high school football reached out to me so like just by chance on Instagram he's like hey swallow that you're back home come check out my new gym because he moved locations and I've known this guy since I was 14 so I trusted him and I you know I liked him and I was like I'll come through and uh he was showing me the gym and they had an open spot and he just offered me the room right then and there I was like let's do it yeah I didn't give a second thought I was just like I want to get started so that was my first mistake um up in hindsight but I was just eager to start and uh you know the first few months were great he was trying to refer people um didn't know this happened but at least he tried I had my spot I had a gym that's all I needed um but towards the end right like he saw the potential I think he went out to a gym in California that did a similar model where it's like the gym owner was also a Cairo so he could bill under his under his license like uh whatever they were billing right and it all made sense he thought he saw an opportunity there where we can use my license and build things under my license and then my share profit but again that's illegal yeah so I try to explain that to him nicely um he took offense to that and so I think just my my biggest lesson from that was like wow I can't like I can't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings I just have to be clear on what what the deal is yeah and I've always been kind of shy and like timid of hurting people's feelings or or not being not saying things that they want to hear and I would always like kind of shy away and hide from just being like direct like hey this is what it is like I'm not doing that I'm doing this and that's probably not the best option for me or you this is what it is and like just go from there yeah would you say that's more from like a scarcity mindset because when you when I first started out it was like oh [ __ ] dude this is the only shot I have it's like all like eight miles like I got one shot exactly so yeah that's actually very interesting because I was a broke student for eight years right college and then chiropractic school yeah um I was not making I wasn't working at all for for eight years so I think that definitely played a role and I was like you know I was definitely in the scarcity mindset coming out of school and I also had no idea what I was doing business-wise yeah how how do you even wrestle with that dude just because this is someone you know for a long long time but then you know there's there's a morality question ethical question come into play but that's also on the opposite side where it's more emotional where it's like oh there's someone I know for a long time was probably somewhat of a mentor to you growing up and looking to do this and then you know you say no you're going to damage that relationship and most likely it would be like irreparable in some ways so how do you how do you get rid of their emotional voice and then go with the logical one that was really tough but again I had this like intuitive feeling that like I wasn't going to grow there and it was tough to relay that message to him because he wanted to be partners for a long time I think he envisioned like a facility kind of like I did um working together with like trainers and PTs cairo's all in one like umbrella and one umbrella and um when I saw like kind of the direction he was going and I also was very uh cautious and aware of how he was with other people I was noticing that um he was burning a lot of bridges with everybody in his Circle wow so I you know thank God I had the awareness and I saw that happening and so I kind of like separated myself and I think the first like Tiff with that was I uh did not select him as my power lifting coach and I saw the reaction to that and it was like okay first red flag right and then I saw like how he would uh interact with like his little circle and I was like all right another red flag and so kind of slowly like fizzled out like that way and then the partnership thing was at the very end and that was kind of like the sealer and unfortunately like like I said I've known since I was 14. he basically introduced me to heavy lifting so strong part of my wife and I definitely still like perspective and everything but um the second that [ __ ] kind of hit the fan and I had to think on the go and kind of move here um things actually went a lot smoother and that stress of like hurting someone's feelings and all that burning a bridge or whatever it was thank God it went away and that was that was honestly probably holding me back a lot yeah from a lot of things it was just like unnecessary stress yeah and uh once I got rid of that like actually the business kind of took off dude it's crazy because I was talking to my wife about this where we have like these two types of problems we have like math problems which is all logical stuff thing that can be soft on paper and we have like drama which is things that we think up in our head and how are people going to feel how we're gonna perceive most likely has to do with guilt mostly guilt or like fear of loss of some sort and there were times where in the beginning like same thing where I was in one gym an opportunity opened out for another gym like I gotta jump in I have to be able to do both so because I wouldn't be able to do this and in my head I was like all right if I have both I could pick which one's better well I could do both at the same time and then it'll increase my chances all likelihood of success because it make sense on paper right 100 if you have more opportunities then you have more chances to be successful in in both and then when I realized like oh my God I really have to make decisions I can't be in both places at the same time because I was like burning candles on both ends yeah so like this is during covet too so I'm like all right I gotta shut one down which is a really nice Gym in Montclair and as soon as I shot that one down I focused on the one in Roseland and I grew like tremendously just because I'm like all right I can just focus on one thing and I can just do this and in hindsight like just coming out the beginning all you want to do is want to be able to pay bills uh like my wife was still in school during that time so I was responsible for everything and I like obviously that like yeah yeah and so I was telling her that the because we were talking about like hard work and work ethic and I'd say like like The Natty five years ago has way better work ethic than the Natty now and it will kick my ass any single day when it comes to like toe-to-toe working hour per hour oh because I agree I was doing all the time but now like I if I if I had to jump in and treat for someone uh for for one of my therapists dude I'm spent for the rest of the day I'm like I'm shocked like I can't do that anymore I can do it but not like what I used to like five years ago I fully agree I'm in the same boat and it's funny you say the uh like two gym thing I literally just posted that in our Facebook group is it a business um I had so many opportunities and recently I was listening to a podcast and like just the power of saying no I I was terrible at that my whole life whether it's like weddings or going out with friends wait multiple weddings oh this year I mean get married you no I'm just getting multiple lives I was like Justin actually was joking about this but I was like he's like how many weddings did you go this year literally eight or nine holy [ __ ] yeah like I mean that's also like that's just eat away it will say same thing with like gym opportunities right I had like six gyms genuinely wanting the end of gym and I was already here and I was like that'd be sick like I'm gonna expand RSM it's gonna be cool and then thankfully I had good guidance from Justin and he's like you're gonna lose focus you're gonna be spread thin like I would I would recommend not doing that and thankfully I listened and that's again when the business took off and I wasn't like stressed about where I'm gonna be like am I going to hurt this gym owner's feelings if I'm here or like even stupid stuff like that it's just unnecessary like brain space and you know what I used to come across is that people would say I would send people to you but because you're in another gym I can so to me I used to be like oh my God I'm missing out on so much but the way I looked at it now I was like dude that's extremely selfish if you know I can do the best job for your clients but the only thing preventing you from setting your clients to me is your ego because you you think they're gonna you're gonna lose someone by when they step into the door I was like dude what does that say about your service or your product or how you view yourself exactly so I'm like that's not a b problem that's a you problem yes and thankfully I haven't run into that but I agree that's all ego yeah no you will because you have people who like oh no I'm not going to send people there yeah um and like ever since we left the crossroad team we still have people who comes uh from there just because again like uh as soon as I left there were multiple people who try to go into the the gym that I was in and they just they just couldn't do it and luckily for me we have really good brand loyalty within the the community there so people still come to us whether who's going to be there or not right and I'm obviously not doing it in a malicious way but I think we if you create something so so valuable and you solve problems that other people cannot solve they're going to come to you regardless exactly and it's only a matter of time so the way I see it is like either you start referring to me and make yourself look good because you point him in the right direction or you refer them to someone else and didn't get the result that they want and then they ended up finding my place right then you could look like a jackass right you couldn't refer them from the beginning exactly and you're wasting time and money all that yeah um so let's backtrack even farther you graduate from chiropractic school what 2019 uh 18. yep so almost 19. okay yeah so right then you say you took a couple interviews do you even work full time anywhere before you no I so I was interning with Justin um for my 10th term graduating December the plan was to work there in January we came to the agreement that it was just too far yeah I wasn't going to be able to commit six days it was just too much it's an hour and a half each way oh yeah yeah and um like you said I had um fiance at the time well I had to buy the ring I had to pay for rent I had to pay my loans I had all these bills and I'd never paid before I was freaking out and um I knew that I needed to make my own thing happen because I wasn't going to take a salary all the salaries I got offered were 50k or less yeah which is basically what my wife made as a teacher so I was like not happening so long story short I went on a couple interviews just to see like what they were offering if there was a good opportunity every place that I Googled Sports Medicine total [ __ ] show I was just not having it so I went this is it I'm gonna jump into the deep end so I started my thing um took a part-time job that would just pay me by the day which is great yeah um I mean the pay sucked but it was consistent so I had like the bills to pay for and a little bit of savings and then I started mine from zero and so I slowly just built it up built it up I always gave myself like a year to kind of like build up RSM and then jump off but right of the year was covet um so it delayed me a couple months but my jump off point was like if I'm working three days a week by myself I could make 10 grand a month if I go six days a week I'm hopefully doubling that so once I hit that 10 grand a month like range I had the confidence to just say all right I'm done here let me go all in on myself and actually at that moment um it was nerve-wracking but it was insane how much the business grew and I got to learn more and do all the like systemic stuff because I had the time and so now I'm here five six days a week working on the business not worrying about other notes and other practices it's just all me and then it really grew from there so it actually was the best thing I ever did was quit there I should have done it faster yeah but I was a little nervous so I was just waiting for that like consistent revenue of monthly Revenue to be there and then right when that happened I was like it's time yeah dude in high side everyone always said they should have quit I know it's it's always that I should quit sooner right I say the same thing but I think it's all about taking like affordable risk yes what like because you can only it's almost like when you go to a casino you can only gamble what you have if you have 20 bucks or degenerate yeah like you just take off loads or whatever it is but like normal like you know logical thing to do is like hey what can I afford to lose right oh I think for me was like what can I of what not to lose like how do I cover all the expenses by just doing the part-time thing and then like then as soon as I cover my rent that's that's what that was my Approach like how do I cover all my life expense and then the rest is just like okay this is like a nice to have thing where I know like I could do something about it once I once like the side Hustle was able to take over like what I was getting paid as a part-time I was like okay at least if I quit this I know with this can sustain my bills exactly and then from there I was like all right now let's just scroll from that end now I feel when you when you started let's talk about just the startup mentality in the gym because both you and I started starting the gym so what were some like most people I think even in our old Mastermind group everyone was start up in a gym yeah but you know it's very similar I think we all have the similar thing like we hate this this sucks I want to do this myself I'm gonna find a gym not go do this and that so some of the lesson I've learned along the way was each gym has his own personality and with that personality attractive and clientele and those clientele might not be what you wanted to work with so for example like the one gym in Roseland the clientele was like more My Vibe I can talk about anything we can relate we get each other the other gym it was more upscale where I couldn't relate to them at all like people were kind of show up in fur code in some way I'm like dude like that's not that's not what I do yeah um so I I had to quickly realize that that I was not going to be successful there just because those weren't my main perfect patient so what were your thoughts on defining or redefining your perfect patient as you started that's an amazing question so I love that and that's again why I rushed into things and it was kind of in hindsight so it was like 2020 19 but that was a high school Performance gym yeah right I'm not that's not my perfect patient at all and so I quickly realized that like three months in like there's just you know a lot of kids coming here like that's not who I'm trying to sell to and like who I want to help um I was I was helping them but like it was just not my perfect client um again I Vibe with them and I was in the football World myself so I I was very good to like converse with people in that world but um again it wasn't like my ideal client and so luckily when I got here um this is a completely different vibe different Community different um like sense of community that was here it's insanely strong like people they're like supportive they've known each other for a long time it's like very tight-knit and when I saw that I I that's probably my favorite part about this gym is their like sense of community yeah they do events outside together they're best friends like it's really cool to see and um again it's a different population too right it's like older adults that are trying to stay healthy he's trying to stay active they're pushing crazy numbers that you know their age it's awesome and that's my that's who I relate to now and like that's kind of why I think the business took off as well is that I got practice in talking to those people and helping them and then the word of mouth around the gym around the area uh I feel like that that helped me a lot and so like again going back to the first gym High School Performance gym that's all fine Dandy just not the people that I was trying to work with yeah right because you know it's when you're selling to a kid it's different than selling to a parent then you got to sell them both it's like kind of just confusing yeah no I mean that's that's my world luckily from me I just know how to talk to the kids but then really reach out and talk to the parents because you've got to go to the person who make decision in the household exactly I think in any in any practice you need to go always go to the decision maker in the household you can be working with like 90 year olds but you know he or she is not making that decision it's someone else right right so for us what we've been trying to do is like all right how do we get to the person who caught a shot like even like from the first phone call we're like hey um do you mind we ask who's this decision maker yep like is there someone that we can be on the phone with will that person be on the same call so that way we can explain everything and you guys can make you know uh a reasonable decision together something that you know all everyone understand and as part of us being transparent I think 100 you know like just I mean the idea of uh ethical sales is being being ethical at what we do you have to be transparent and you can be transparent if the person making decision is not on the phone or in front of you because you know the game of telephone people will push it they're like oh yeah Dr Jeremy say I just have to be here you know I don't know 20 times and like what and like when people and this is another lesson I learned to when people start um I guess um conveying your your message to someone else they will 100 bash it up oh every time yeah every single and that's when disagreement happened so we always was like no we need to talk to the decision right maker um I'm happy to hear that's built into your system oh dude it has it has to be it's important because otherwise you know how it is if you talk to the husband if the wife don't want to make decision you get a call 45 years later say hey my husband just told me about this how is this possible that you're like sorry we should have talked to you I know instead and that way you don't waste any one time and it's not being disrespectful just say Hey listen we want to make sure you make a comfortable decision exactly so how do we get on the same page as fast as possible just we want everybody to have as much info as possible yeah and another thing I want to touch back into is that obviously the gym within different culture different personality I always uh I I always say this I'm super grateful with the demo that I work with in Crossroads and um Joe who's very busy minded and by just working with him he's looking at grocery I think during that time when I was with him 2018 to 2020 before uh covet he scaled from two gym to six wow and just being part of that and see how we do it his system is processed I'm just absorbing everything so and like obviously in in the setting that we both were in of being uh in a gym like it's a strategic Alliance you have to have if the gym is not growing your business is not growing that's not how it works so what were some of the things you will you would look for now if someone were to say hey Jeremy I wanted to be part of this you know what what do I need to do to make this worth your while wow that's another great one well again talking this gym up um they're constantly evolving and they're constantly getting new equipment they're constantly like discussing things I love that about a gym so they're they're always looking for the next best thing for their clients that's what I would probably look for is somebody who's always willing to change right you don't want the old dinosaur that's just doing the same power clean from the floor with the same equipment for years on end and just that's the thing um somebody who's willing to change learn evolve like now they're looking to get um like a recovery room that we're gonna do together probably like that's you know working together like that that just to provide people with like the coolest experience they could do like if you have a gym that has badass weight lifters and you got every bar Under the Sun and you got a cold plunge now and a sauna and you got a Cairo and house massage therapist all the equipment's always clean they make it a point to be clean they have events like I said outside of the gym like it's all all of that plays a role it's kind of like pain right like it's not just like one ql like it's like all these things that come together and you have right that that play a huge role that's kind of how I envisioned myself with like a team like a gym if I were never to move like or start my own thing that's how I would want it it's just like all these moving parts that everybody's growing together yeah no I mean I I for me to even add on to that it's like obviously you have to have a growth mindset business owner that you can work with you can balance idea because that's the whole thing like the place we're at now we have a string coach who we partner with but like our business completely separate just like you guys like this there's no funny business and we made that clear from day one but everything that we do uh as far as like buying equipment doing like we all make that decision together even from painting and all that stuff and luckily for me he's way more handier than I am so he does all the stuff and I barely do [ __ ] um and that's like and that's gold from day one like as soon as like we know each other I was like dude I'll let you know right now if you need to get stuff done I will pay yeah I was like but just letting you know we'll split everything but if you want to do it you can but it's not going to be me right like just extremely transparent another thing I contribute the success that we had at the gym in the current place we're at now is just being able to speak the same language and no ego I think that's that's the main thing is um if you can get into a place where like you and I if people watch how we treat without the Hands-On or all that stuff they'll be like no those guys are personal trainer they're string coaches exactly and again for someone who is very um I would say not confident in their skill set as a personal trainer as a coach they would find us intimidating where people who are super confident what they do they would say you know what those guys gets it like I would send people 9 out of 10 times because what they're doing is exactly what I would do so my patients are not getting uh my clients are not getting better and they can help them and then they can get them back to where they were I can then take the torch forward so I think that's that's a huge element to be able to transition the patient to the performance side or through the training side right because it's a symbiotic relationship that's actually another great Point here is like that we're all on the same page and they know that I'm not like you know the old school Cairo yeah so they have no problem referring to me if God forbid anything you know one of their clients has like oh I have a little twinge of money they're like see Germany yeah right like I'm the pain guy here yeah which is awesome because they trust me they see me train so I earn the respect that way um and you know we have this great relationships where I could be like hey if you're looking for personal training are you looking for a nice gym to join like look at this channel I trust these guys with my heart yeah and they do the same for me so it's awesome no it's huge man and I and then we talked to like the business owner who like startup and in this kind of setting is you know I I hate saying this but I'm going to say it is that sometimes we do have ego attached to our doctorate and it kind of make us kind of like jerks yeah you know for you to be in someone else's business you know you're not deserving because you have a doctorate you're deserving because you have the value attached to what you're able to offer their business right right so I always come in as like how much how much value can I provide to the gym and I don't know if you guys do this I would highly encourage you and anyone who's in like this kind of setting is to track the attrition rates and you started in here to where it is now because as soon as we got to cross Roseland the attrition rate dropped by around you know eight percent and that's and to me that's value yeah now that's more money in their pocket that's more happy members that's more members that didn't have to rest or stop because someone else their doctor that take a look at their knee for five minutes say you need to stop what you're doing so those are people that were able to help with their lifestyle with their goals but also we're able to add bottom line revenue profit to the business we're in very true yeah that's what that's kind of my like seven point when I do uh seminars and stuff so I want to find a way to keep your members healthy I don't need anything I just want to keep your members healthy yeah and you're like on the fence and then next thing your wife's like what are you doing on your phone you're like all right never mind no and then next like it's just that it's it's just like all right I gotta get back to it you know how it is you know this is a spousal dispute right they can be on the phone for 10 hours but God forbid you take your phone out for one minute like I had to cut off all right yeah tomorrow yeah so is I think having a CRM is is a good way to demonstrate value and it's it's what you do with the CRM right and and I don't want to take this too far but if you talk like you know nuclear energy use the right is infinite amount of resources right root use is wrong it's terrible it's just like CRM if you use it correctly you can demonstrate value like hey here's how I can help you right here's a pro the people I've been solving for uh hear someone like you uh and for me though I look at it as a bridge for them to realize that they are in charge of their own health and then they can do something about it and that they're not tied down to the narrative that pharmaceutical companies say you know old school doctors say and that they have the ability to be like you know what I'm gonna take care of this myself and I can find someone like you or me that can help me get there I love that yeah it's the awareness yeah yeah just constant awareness and a system to be like a follow-up system too I'm not amazing with falling off yeah I'm not it's just there's too many things going on sometimes and I'm like did I reach out to this person after a week they're like that's all set already yeah but it's great you can follow up because you wear so many hats so let's let's count how many hats you're wearing now so right now is this you yeah right so the CEO right marketer on Instagram um let's see you're doing a clinician I can't forget that uh operator um sales all of it uh yeah you're wearing all the hats yeah exactly so let's talk about all these things that you're wearing because um I I actually have a funny story with this so when I hire my marketing assistant uh she went home and then someone's like her parents just like hey just wanna like who are you assisting like you're you're a marketing assistant and she's like I guess I'm assisting Daddy but he's like well isn't he a PT yeah like what he is but he's also the owner yeah and then and like she told me the story so I went in I was like each day I'm gonna have different hatsight where yeah I was like wait hold on all right now you're gonna sit here wait hold on let me move on this hat so like it's it's it's so funny man it's normal so what what are the plans you're doing now to slowly hand those hats away well I did hire an admin she's still in training so actually um that's very exciting because now I can kind of delegate some things to her she's going to be in charge of the CRM which is good I mean we'll both be involved but she'll be like taking care of like plugging people in making sure the right thing goes out and all that um but down the road after that um I'm looking to do maybe some online um advertising which I've never done and so that is going to increase all the leads hopefully and then after that you know I'm going to look to get a marketing assistant I am doing all the posts I'm doing all the emails like all of it so it gets overwhelming I'd love to have someone help me with that um and then a therapist you know slowly as we get more patient volume with all that stuff get another therapist and then from there hopefully a sales director that knows the system that knows you know what we do I ideally I'd get somebody who's been a patient right that's yeah I try to do that with admin um but unfortunately that one didn't work out um but down the road like sales wise I want somebody that's a believer in this has been through it knows you know kind of what we're all about and then from there build like a really good strong team yeah I think to even offer some advice is that you don't even need to have like the page in themselves work for you maybe just a friend or a family yeah who I've heard of you right like one one of our best employees like cheese was not a patient but her whole family was outpaged and so she gets it so like I think that's been a huge help and it's so hard to ha like you know in the beginning you have that tendency to hire anyone off the street and what I realized when I do that it doesn't align with a core value and B as soon as we part ways there are bodies everywhere right so I'm just like now like I'm just like all right show me where the bodies are like what and like this time where like we let someone go on just like and like someone bring up like oh it's like oh do you know that this happened this you know this wasn't taken care of and like my response was like is that it because I expect more I know that's that is tough to think about like going down that road but yeah I'm not opposed to like friends and family I just want to build a tight Community a good team like you said I don't care we're honestly where they're from as long as they believe in the system they believe in what we do I'm all for it yeah so all right I think this is a good point how how verbal eyes your beliefs to to people oh without talking [ __ ] well I mean I say how just tell me how no I I uh I'm just like Ah that's a good question actually I like to just be I like to be the guy who's not um so first off White Coat Syndrome was always a thing that I had personal Vendetta against so you know we're wearing gym stuff right yep I've never wanted to be the strict white coat or coming with the paper you know that fear-mongering kind of tactic um I want a relaxed environment I want um results so everybody that I'm surrounding myself with is spending on education looking to push themselves and be the smartest and best person they could be that is huge for me that culture-wise is what I want and so somebody who's doing that somebody who chooses conservative care over like just going right to like the medicine or the um going under the knife like those ideas are are in my opinion outdated and so I kind of relay that message in a nicer way um sometimes but yeah like conservative care Active Care I'm very like I like to be kind of like the model of health and as a leader like I'm working out hard I'm tracking my diet I'm doing all those things that play a role into Health not just rehab I'll do my stretches and everything but like I want to be the full package and everybody on the team I hope cares about all that stuff as well and so that when people come in they see like a wow great team people are all like they care about health they care about like taking care of their body and kind of just that that for me is like the most important yeah dude I love the white color syndrome I always say like if you're wearing white coat to like cover your guts you're not the the the prime example of Health exactly and I had bad experiences with that and so I'm sure there's white coat guys out there that are that are amazing girls um but for me it was like I had some bad experiences where they just because they threw that thing on it was like again ego like talking down to people being very short um not really being helpful um and just that whole stigma yeah I was not a fan and so right away like when I started my practice I was never in like taller like it was just this yeah because I wanted people to feel comfortable I'm I'm just a regular human just like you are right like we're all active here trying to be the best and trying to get better healthy wise like there's no reason I'm like talking down to somebody or like you know holding a clipboard with like the the face too none of that I feel like as a business owner and this for me personally I I rest I struggle a lot with almost like an identity crisis right where you want to show up professionally you want to have the level expertise by people like obviously like respect what you say you don't be too laid back where you're like oh man like I'm too laid back now I'm losing The credibility that I have but you also don't want to go way the opposite of the white Coast syndrome where you've seen people on Instagram where all they do all they do is talk [ __ ] yeah all they do is like curse and all of that stuff and they just scream at people and they just say we got smashes we got to do this we got to do that and that's like almost the opposite the opposite end of the um the healthcare Spectrum right so for me like through social media I think when I started social media was not as big as what it is now um when I get on there I'm like man like should I be doing that like because some people when they go Wheeling stream they get more likes they get more updates and then uh you know luckily for me I have a good friend um you know you know Shantae the movie yeah so Shantae is a really good friend and then she said one thing to me that I'd never forget well she was like listen it's not about the amount you follow it's about the depth of your follower and that's what you want to tailor to exactly it's the people that follow your message those are the people that you want to serve and to me it's like oh great rather than me changing who I am my identity to cater to the masses which is catering to No One anyways right I might as well just hold in my message really State what I believe in and then from there hopefully attract the right people to you know my page to my website and to my clinic and then from there the pressure is kind of off because now I don't have to like do what the pain sign folks say oh I don't have to go with the super manual guy say like I'm just like no this is me this is what I do that's such an amazing statement because I struggled that the whole first two years of my practice I was trying to impress clinicians right and like I didn't know I was the same thing am I going to be too pain science but this am I going to be too biomechanical model with this and I'm like why do I even care what the other clinicians think like directing your message to your perfect client that again was a huge stress reliever monkey off my back like I I and you've seen me recently right like now it's it's shorter posts it's more digestible it's quicker it's not in depth like I used to write crazy posts that were way too in-depth that nobody probably ever read and sure enough it wasn't getting anywhere and then on the opposite side of that being contrarian right you know gets followers rights gets engagement and that's also tough to deal with because I could say I could go against the grain all I want but like then you look like the bad guy to your patients so like it's two different worlds and I kind of followed your way like just speaking to my perfect client and honing in trying to get depth for that game changer and now I'm not as stressed yeah dude I think at the end of the day I think I was gonna write a post on it was clinician create content that often is pretty much like self self aggrandize where you just want to Pat just oh man what a great post oh man I did it I know that's great oh I only have five likes exactly I did it but I'm the man yeah yeah or it's like you're waiting for every post to go viral too that getting that out of my head was like another game changer because I was like oh man this one sucked but like maybe not a lot of people saw it maybe it didn't resonate with that many people yeah and then the next one would be good and I'm like this is amazing right so getting that like mentality out again having like no uh pre-bias of like this should be the best post ever it's just like you're just doing it for again like awareness consistency and awareness yeah like hey guys here I'm trying to provide value this is it yeah I so like well obviously both you and I and Mary and I I've been with my wife we're going 13 years married three years wow and I love just seeing parallel of like marriage and and business and I Nick just got engaged so I was talking to Nick I was like doing life get a lot easier right I said it's you like life get a lot easier when you only have to impress one woman and all you have to do is you just go into depth of your relationship and just try to find ways to impress her more and more or like to to serve her more to do as much as you can and I look at the same way as my perfect patient like how do I just impress that one group of people all the time show up all the time how do we keep dating how do we keep the spark going yes because and this is how I see like most people and and I I wholeheartedly believe this I would love to hear your thought on this as well as that when people come in the door people's like oh man I got a new a new client a new patient I was like no you haven't yeah you it I always say is mere luck that they show up into the door and that they happen to walk in we had an opportunity to work with them we have not win anything yet unless they refer people because now they really believe in what they do if they haven't referred their family members we haven't won them over because they don't trust us yes we just got so lucky that they heard of us and it's the last resort and they still iffy about it so to me it's like no I I it's almost like when you date someone just because you're like they're your girlfriend doesn't mean they're gonna be your fiance exactly it doesn't mean they're going to marry you and all so I'm like all right how do you keep go deeper how do we keep impressing those people how do we make sure that they can look back and be like that was for me like your wife has no questions like no Jeremy there's billions of guys in the world great beer nice hair and your wife will be like no no this is that's my guy you know the way you slick his hair is different he's unique right so like how do we die without patience dude that's amazing that's a great parallel I never thought of that um but I I think that's exactly how it goes right like you're just focusing on one specific person right for that and one specific Niche for your business and again like taking the stress off of yourself like not everybody that walks in the door is going to be a patient right and thankfully for me I've built something here where like most of my clients become like good friends that for me is the marker of like we did good they trust me they'll refer family members yeah they do prefer family members I'm like wow you just sent me your wife like you really trust me so that's again like that's that's my goal is to be friends with people like I'm not kidding like 90 of my practice becomes like a friend and we're on like a text basis yeah which is awesome um and it's a very like good Community but uh back to like the messaging thing how do we figure out how to make that one person happy that's changed my marketing game tremendously I used to do power lifting events and I would then do like a hip thing or and I was like just all over the place it's just like basically guerrilla marketing yeah and now like I was saying earlier my videos are targeted at literally I'll write down my perfect client on paper and be like does this video Hit all these pain points and all these things and now it makes more sense right and now those videos get more engagement now now I'm actually getting more leads from Instagram from that age group which is tougher right because Instagram supposedly like age 25 to 35. um my my perfect patient's a little older than that so and I'm getting those people now from Instagram which is again it's like it sounds crazy but you just have to do it and then you see like the results and if they if it's working like I want to keep pumping those out yeah I think one thing that I was struggling with in the beginning was if someone come in and and they're not my perfect patient I would still say yes just because I was with money I'm just seeing like doing like growing up in like again you know I I immigrated in Thailand so everything was all about money like my mom's like no no we gotta save money we gotta do this this is a really funny story so when we first moved here uh Shrek was like a huge movie first track right this dated me a little bit Burger King has this campaign where you get green ketchup and I'm like I've never seen green cash check before so but like my sister and I went to the mall we're like Mom can we get this Happy Meal a Burger King so we can get the green ketchup she's like begrudge me she's like fine so she purchased it and then she then proceeded to calculate the US dollar currency to the Thai currency which is the bot at that time was one dollar equal to 40 Baht so then she calculated that and said by the way this cost I know 2 000 Baht and then like that was like we will like some of my family members were living off that for a week and then she was like enjoy so for me as you can see that's like really messed me up financially so everything that I do when I first started my practice was like oh my God I need I no no that's money leaving away right and then calculated back and bottom I was like no that's a lot of money so so I'm like all right dude that was the hardest thing I have to let go it was messing me up so because I would be so miserable like we I hate using this term but sometimes you get patient who's not the right fit and they kind of take a little piece of your soul oh when you treat them well that you said that yes that's a real thing yeah so I have to be like hey no not not the right person I have like the first time I did it I'm like oh that sucks I'm losing money and then like the more I do it I'm like oh that's not that bad no because then the right one come through the door so how do you yeah how do you overcome that because I know a lot of people are gonna need yeah that's yeah the same thing man I had a crazy childhood yeah I lived in two of the richest places on Earth and then we went to zero after like some crazy things that happened too long to explain but I've had similar you know I've had a Christmas where I had everything in the world and I had a Christmas where we had to get yeah and and just us so it's uh it was very hard for me and I and I'm glad so everything happens for a reason right I did that first Mastermind um and I think that kind of triggered my like um relationship with money thing and then as I dove deeper and read more things and got into more masterminds um my relationship with money has been thankfully impaired but or uh repaired um but it was very bad and again tough again you want patience on the schedule you want everybody that comes in to be a patient and you're like if you see someone go or someone doesn't reschedule or they say no this is too expensive you drive yourself nuts but letting go of that Game Changer again like I'm not the unnecessary stress that we put ourselves through and like that's just one piece of like you said all the hats so if you can eliminate stress from one little hat at a time like that was a good stressor that I kind of like Let Go finally it took me three four years but finally got to a point where I was like oh yeah this person doesn't really fit in here anyway and like why was I so stressed about getting them to come in and then like you said your favorite client walks right in stroll in you're like oh my God this is so fun this is fun it makes it fun again right it makes your job fun it makes working with the person like enjoyable like you're on the same page it's just it's more efficient it's more efficient work it's more efficient like for everybody and so yeah like it was tough to let people go and like say yeah no this is not like it's probably not the best option like you know I can send you in the right direction at least um that for me took three or four years of getting out of like the that mindset of like I need everything I need I need to save I need to do this it's like getting out of like the money mindset and like focusing on the person in front of you to seeing what's best for them that's been a very good mindset of shift for me yeah I think getting out of the money thing is is huge man because if again we all started this because we needed the money to pay for some stuff we all started from Financial stability at some point and the way I look at it is always the financial stability has to lead to something else like again one of my favorite Christmas movies A Christmas Carol and when you look at Scrooge is always money driven and at the end you know you see it's like ex partner coming like hey dude don't mess this up this is what I did with my life there's really no sense or purpose can't take everything with you and and for me you don't have that greater purpose of trying to do something else you're just in pretty much a bottomless pit of just trying to get more and more and more and then that's just something that would never satisfy you I mean again it's why you're going back to like you know it's almost like just eating to eat it's gluttony it's just sin it's just sinful at some point you know at some point you don't need that kind of money and what I've been doing more for myself like with the more time I have like obviously working on myself reading more but really going back to like all right what what am I really doing it for like let's just say let's just say the money thing is not a thing like I don't let's just say we live in a world where there's no money required what is am I gonna show up again still doing this and the answer for me is always yes like if I hit the law I always drive past a lot of that oh if I hit that I'm like yeah like I'll show up at 10 instead of nine yeah I was like that's okay like I'll still treat my boy the same like you know like if they all come in and like they want like a million dollar raise like no yeah like that because I'm not helping them grow either right that's another thing so I'm always saying like all right if I can do that and the money is not needed well I do it every day yes the answer is yes all right good I'm on a good path and what I'm trying to do now in my life is how do I filter out some stuff where I get to do challenging fun stuff that support my life I think that's a win right maybe you can do that 100 and that people ask me all the time like do you really enjoy the gym that much like yeah I do I help people in the gym and I love lifting myself it's a perfect combo I've never like oh yeah no gotta go to the gym again like I enjoy being in gym yeah I mean then someday I have I'm not ashamed to admit like that's something I'm like man I am dragging ass I was like I just gotta I know it's perfect the first five minutes is always tough uh I got in the habit of like doing cold shower every morning oh nice dude the first 30 seconds you're just like double dashing your way in you're like am I going in am I going in and then as soon as you get in you're like all right Grace I'm glad I'm in yep and is it after you're amazing yes same thing as a gym and again go going back to our industry is always a grudge purchase no one wants to be here like I don't care if you're like have 80 000 followers whatever it is no one wants to see right you know like for an hour no because they they rather be doing some some stuff right and and again no one wants to go to the gym in a perfect world if someone like hey here's a pill you look Jack you look rip people would take that any day no one wants to put themselves to to hard things and when I realized that like hey people don't want to be here so I have to make sure that experience is so great that they're like all right it sucks but it was really good right I agree and that's why like I said I go out of my way to make it very personable make sure they're having fun for the hour and that's why I think most people end up trusting me and then becoming friends because they're like I could talk to this guy he knows what he's doing and he's helping me I feel better when I leave it's a good experience right and so that for me is priority the impatient experience how how do you Define your perfect page how do you know when that your perfect patient walk into the door do you have like a framework you're like hey this is how do you how do you come up with that to know that that's the right person that's an amazing question so that happens in the discovery visit um actually maybe even before that if they call if we got on a call I just find out about the person like you know obviously age and all that stuff what their goals are what their main concerns are those things are like vital right and a lot of other clinics don't ask those things um I like to dive deep into like what's your training goals uh what do you like what are what what's going to make you feel successful um if you do a session or if you do a plan of care with us like how does it look like after how does it look like if we don't do anything right like if you're going to keep on with this pain like asking those questions kind of clear the way for all the other noise and like we will really get into like the internal reason of why they're coming right like people that care about their health and they want they have let's say uh let's just say a 55 year old he's about to have a grandson he can't bend from the floor and his worry is like playing with the grandson right like that's an important thing for me now we can kind of um reverse engineer and kind of give him a good plan so that he can prepare for that be strong enough be mobile and all that so that he's not fearful of like bending and taking over the picking up the child and stuff like that like getting to the root cause of why they're actually coming to me yeah I get to the root cause of pain you get I gotta also get to the root cause of why they're coming to see me yeah but that helps narrow it down yeah I think this I I love all of that and we do that in the beginning all the time but I think uh as I was reflecting back last year where we we had some drop-off and I was trying like what happened why did we not serve them well what happened did we lose sight and I think something that I came up with was because we kind of stopped relating the achievement to what they wanted to do because you know how it is when people start feeling good they're like oh I can do these things now but what we need to do is like we can go deep from the beginning and constantly keep digging deeper to like hey now that you can pick up your kids your grandkids like all right cool what would you do when they grow to be 10 year old because right funny thing about kids they keep getting bigger you know so like are you resilient enough to do that so now like we we create like a whole road map where we have to like we we celebrate the little thing but we also say Hey you accomplish this but the next task next dragon you have to say is this right because if you slay that then you get to do this and you get to do this and you get to do this you're closer to doing this so like we have to we lay that all the time and I had a conversation again with a friend of mine where it is again going back to again just to sum it up I'll be a white Coach syndrome where people take pride in seeing patient least amount of time because it's like oh I'm that good I don't have to see that person one times a month that's me I'm a one times a month guy because I'm that good I'm it's me a Dumbledore which one you're like yeah I'm debating right and a friend of mine just like dude if it takes us hypertrophy you train four days hard for six to eight weeks then you have hypertrophy and I'm still small and and but again but why would we recommend doing one month once a month I know once a week once every other week like are we actually serving the person in front of us or are we serving ourselves I this was my whole marketing thing as I started I had no idea what I was doing yeah and I was just taking what I saw my original mentors um posting and I was like get out of pain fast right like that was like the whole shtick yeah and I took that and I realized about a year and a half into practice this is the opposite message that I want to send this is that because it's not like that and again it's an ego thing like oh yeah one session I'll let me fix everything for you look at these things yeah yeah it's like crazy yeah so I I shot myself in the foot for the first about a year and a half with all my messaging because it was like get out of pain fat I even had it on like posters I would you know that was like the whole thing and I quickly realized like this is not the message I want to send yeah this is terrible dude we did like we did a pretty extensive video on that where if you're in a pain business you're competing against Tylenol yeah which costs two dollars yeah why would you want to do that 100 yeah it's like and I didn't know any of that I wish you told me that when I was no we just talk about this because someone a friend of mine um got into like some sort of debate with again clearly more clinician right because that's what clinicians do now they debate each other on Facebook who are grounded and going out and treat patients and all that stuff awesome family it's not to be right yeah you have to be right they rather be right on Facebook group than Ashley to just be a normal person uh but they were like no you can't you you have to market the pain relief the pain relief is what we do I'm like you're gonna fight over that that's what you want to win come on like the guy who saw pain problem dude like Tylenol cost nothing pharmaceutical company pretty much just Market all of that already and and the if you can get out of like why would you want to be the same message as pharmaceutical company no right and and it's all about lifestyle changes your habit building and that's why when we recommend people to come multiple times a week is it's not because that um that that's about because there's a pain sign motto is say hey you don't need to come multiple times a week but but then again all the book they always recommend is atomic habits so like you can't recommend that book and then recommend people to come in once a week no like habits takes time exactly I agree and that that's the I that's the exact like um example I give is like how long do you think it'll take you to get abs is it overnight is it one session no so we've got to give this thing time it's not like a snap your finger and your back Pain's gone there's a lot of things we got to work on and right we'll get there like pain is the first thing I want to get rid of but now let's build on that and keep it there that's kind of how I explain it to people yeah and and it's huge man I think us as business owner but also as clinician first we need to really holding out message and I think we do a lot of letting other people dictate what we do because we are too busy uh fighting with each other in some way we're like again going back you and I treated uh our treatment would probably be similar most people might say oh yo Jeremy's a PT right and they're like oh and how do you say like but again like the outcome is is what we want for the patient right we're trying to do the things that they want to achieve and that's our job like we're not we're not here to again Pat ourselves in the back it's good to that sometime to time but really the whole point is to hey can I help you the patient pat yourself in the back from making this right decision to take care of your body and not to succumb to all this fear-based narrative right I agree yeah so as we're closing off because we've got uh um what's what's next for you man what are you what are you trying to do I love hearing aspiration I think just like obviously being in this office is great because again I started similar path yeah with you uh you know you started a smaller room we both have drama but I love to hear like what what are you looking to accomplish so just give people hope yeah I mean I'm looking to build this right I showed you the uh the room there we got so looking to slowly like build the practice build the team um I had the option you know to just kind of milk the single practitioner model um as far as I can go but you know I think I want to take a step back from you know like total revenue wise and invest that back into the practice now and start to build a team start to make this nicer like I said I'm going to remodel this room that room um and build RSM here and then on top of that I'm also doing the business coaching now with Justin for um students coming out of school that want to do this model um so those two things together um it's it's awesome like I can't believe that I get to teach now it's nuts yeah I'm in charge of like the Facebook group and I really see that kind of taking off in the future just because more and more people are seeing this model and more and more cairos are seeing you know how it is to be more like a rehab-based Cairo and it's cool to see and it's just it in in uh in the bigger picture it's a very small Niche but it's actually a huge Niche now in Chiropractic so helping those people kind of see this side of things you don't have to you know go take that crappy job and work in a clinic that's seeing 90 people dead this is possible and I like to show people like you said it is possible yeah I started this from zero zero patience and slowly built it up and now I get to like educate them build my practice and kind of lead by example and show them what I'm doing and eventually down the road hopefully have a facility where it's like even a bigger team and hopefully an elite level gym we'll see about that one but those those are my goals long term and I think it's great man to have to have you as a mentor to the the younger generation I think it's great because you're really easy to talk to you're very transparent and I think the one thing that people uh not often do especially in coaching and business is they don't share the struggle they want to make it look so easy and they want to say all we have to start a cash based thing and you'll be sailing the sunset and then all your property now it's like no like dude your problem's still there yeah they're more problems because everything is on you now and I think just to have someone like you to be like hey here's what and I always tell people the advice is like oh you want to make x amount of money is always what are you willing to give up yeah it comes at an expense it definitely does and I yeah I've learned so much over the years and I I really didn't know what I was getting myself into um you go to chiropractor chiropractic school and you want to be like just like you said like a clinician you want to help people you want to do what that is then you don't realize if you start your practice it's like CEO marketing director sales director all those hats you have to work learn and work at it or else you know things start to fall apart yeah and like learning that side of things was um not only good for personal growth but like everything like yeah it's I've taken so many lessons from that and um been able to live the life that I want to live and want to continue to do that now we have a family right and second kid on the way so being able to like not stress myself out with like 90 patients a day go home to the family have quality family time like that's my goal and to have the time to do it and not be married to like one thing that's like a crazy machine just 24 7 non-stop like now it's like an efficient practice we're doing well and I still have the time to spend with my family like that for me was number one awesome man last question what are your thoughts on work life balance as a business owner so I I love this question because I talk about it a lot of Justice yeah and um I know Justin too yeah I if you ask my wife I don't have any um it's 24 7 honestly even if I'm like you know home and it's like you know after hours like I make myself too available and um I do like I just said I have my family time and stuff but like if I'm home it doesn't mean I'm not going to answer people I'm always answering people um like like you said we are a different practice so like all get people sending me their squat technique and like you know peek down and be like oh we can fix this right let's non-stop um and then building the practice like I used to never block off time to just build the practice I do that now in my work days but I used to do that at home and I would spend hours like you know working on whatever marketing thing I was going to do next but now it's it's tough like I don't like to make it church and state it's just like it's just life that's kind of how we discuss it with Justin's like just life happening and then on these days I'm going to work on the business on this day it's going to be Daddy Daycare day and the business is doing well so like it's working um but I'm not going to be like you know separating this I'm doing this and I have to balance it out like whatever necessary for the business whatever necessary for the family and it's always just gonna go like that yeah it's tough man I think that about it's not balancing out it's a juggling act yeah it is juggling you're constantly juggling 24 7. right you just pray that you don't drop something yeah and when you drop it it's not it's not a glass right it's a rubber ball right no trust me we uh family wise we make sure we have our trips planned for the year uh we make sure that I'm home at least one or two days a week all day with the baby um just to give my wife a break you know so it's it's a good we have we have a great team over there no I do we have a great team at RSM and at home so you you need that yeah you need that like I wouldn't be where I am without my wife like her support means so much like like last year I traveled pretty much every single month except for like two months and dude is tough yeah again we we don't have any kids yet we just have a dog and and all that but still like she she has her own career she works from home and it's a lot and so if you don't have that kind of support it's a struggle and I've seen and I always think this like I'm I'm truly thankful because I've seen people who build great businesses but then sacrifice their family life and and I don't want that like right it doesn't it is not it doesn't mean that much to me right exactly and that I was teetering on that like a little bit I was going too hard on the pain and I was just 24 7 thinking about the business um so like you said juggling right like instead of making it like a life worth balancing it's just like well let me just you know do a little bit of this side now right and not not going 100 of the business 24 7. I actually have a phone lock box at home that my wife got so no Instagram for two hours no phone no emails just throw it in there it's like play with the baby and that's it yeah no I think it's great but you need that like again for people who watch it be like oh you don't have self-constraints like dude try running your business yeah not answering DMS and then over as as you're overcoming your fear of losing money yeah all that yeah exactly hey do it thank you so much for having me that was amazing I appreciate it thank you