What Went Wrong for Cincinnati Reds Against St. Louis Cardinals?

well it was a Thomas Sai day on Thursday because the Cardinals took the series thanks to the brand new callup for St Louis as uh they Salvage the season series just a little bit for the Cardinals even though the Reds they took the season series long ago hey what's up my name is Jeff Carr I am the host of the locked on reds podcast I'm alongside JD haon he is the host of the locked on Cardinals podcast and we're going to do a bit of a port a postmortem for this one series for the season series the Reds and the Cardinals they're done in 2024 quite frankly I think they're both done done like I think when the regular season ends both these teams will be heading off to the golf course and the beach and all that other stuff looking ahead to 20125 well we'll look ahead to 2025 coming up here in a few minutes later on in the show I also want to do a little bit of game because I feel like John melc Nick crawl David Bell and Oliver marmal kind of have the same energy whenever they're talking to people and we're going to see just how true that is coming up in a little bit but we'll start first of course with this series that the Cardinals ended up taking two out of three that's coming up on today's lockon Reds lockon Cardinals crossover that is brought to you by priz piics go to prize.com lockon MLB and use code all lowercase locked on MLB to win $50 instantly when you play $5 and uh JD I guess the Cardinals won two out of three how you feeling there pal I'm feeling good I'm feeling great I'm re-energized about my franchise toh take down the evil Reds finally honestly really what it is it's not so much that we needed to just beat the Reds but I I need to be okay at my own household Jeff because my wife is a is a monster Reds fan being from Cincinnati and for years and years the Cardinals have yeah let be honest they've kind of kicked around the Reds a little bit last two years the Reds have won both season series seven to six I believe and uh I gotta hear it up here all right and constantly you know and even though the Reds take the the the the season series this time around to have the Cardinals go out winning the final two I think it's going to bring a little peace a little balance to my household and that that's really what my world is all about these days because as you mentioned these teams aren't going anywhere this year I mean yeah the Cardinals haven't been eliminated mathematically yet but we've already turned the page you can see how the lineups were in the series and how things are moving forward where it's more about 2025 than it is the rest of this season which I I think the fan base myself we're all on board for you know there's no real need to keep hanging on to hope that some miracle is going to happen anymore uh you just go out and do what you can with the the guys you you have and you're getting a glimpse of some of the future as you mentioned with Thomas to Jac getting the call up and having the big day here on Thursday so um you know that that was fun to see you know anytime you get to see somebody get their first hit and their first RBI and he played outstanding with the glove in the series as well it was a breath of fresh air for the Cardinals robbed a sure hit of resigns there in the top of the eighth inning that was right up the middle to JC ranging over to his right makes a great play to even stab the thing turns around makes the throw and resigns is not a slow guy I mean that was a great play even with the glove but to see him get his RBI there in the ninth inning that was something interesting to see as well so nice on to JC for you know bringing balance to the force of the half hle but he also really threw a wrench in the ultimate plan that management had set up for the Cincinnati Reds because you see JD the the ultimate plan for the 2024 Cincinnati Reds is that they would be the most interesting 500 ball Club in all of Major League Baseball and now they have to win 10 out of their last 14 to accomplish that goal and at least be a 500 ball Clum at the end of the season and you're talking about a series in Minnesota coming up this weekend you're talking about seeing the Cubs for three going to Pittsburgh for three which has been a problem for the Reds not a problem for many other teams but it's been a problem for the Reds uh so the the fact that they ended up losing this rubber match was tough and it all for me changed in the sixth inning because the Reds were sitting there with bases loaded one out I'm like here we go they just tied the ball game up and you got Tyler Stevenson at the Play Good Vibes all around then he strikes out then TJ Fel hits a lazy ground ball to Third Base ending over that was the theme for the Reds in the whole series but that's really what killed them in this rubber match was the fact that they could not hit with Runners and scoring position quite frankly they didn't hit a whole lot at all I mean I'm glad that they were able to get a shut out in game one cuz that feels like the only way they were going to win any of these ball games considering they only scored one run in the second and third games the the Reds were just completely styed by everybody on the mound not named Andre Palante yeah yeah Sunny gray uh coming in on Thursday uh had not gotten a win against the Reds which was uh kind of hard to believe in his career like out of any team that he played for uh and uh we know that he he has this tendency to pitch pretty well at the beginning and then somewhere around the fifth inning sixth inning you know you usually the third time through the order something happens and it gets triggered and it felt like we were going down that path again where the bases were loaded he gave up the single he had a perfect game uh up until that fry single um and then and then there was the walk and then that you were like oh no this is where it's going to spin out of control and Sunny's a much better pitcher at Busch Stadium than he has been on the road this year and uh he was able to wiggle out of it and uh give his team a chance to uh stay in the ball game but normally we've seen that happen before where uh oh now three runs get across he gives up a two- run sh you know something just Dreadful happens in one inning and kind of torpedoes what is usually a pretty good Sunny gry start until that point yeah I was I was hoping that that would continue but he was able everybody was able to recover well on that one CU these these Reds bats man they they were just shut down I mean anytime krid came in it felt like everybody went to sleep JoJo Romero shut them all down Ryan Fernandez trying to think of other buen guys they all Ryan Hy Ryan Hy yeah in game two so all of that to being said like the Reds still had some good pitching performances and as weird as their situation has been for the last month with everybody on the injured list Jacob junis comes in and he does allow the solo shot but at the same time that is the first run that he is allowed as a starter this is his third start for the Reds and he's now pitched 14 total Innings and he has one run allowed it it's phenomenal to watch him pitch as a starting pitcher and that's not something I thought I was going to say whenever the Reds acquired him in the trade that set Frankie Montas to the Brewers which I mean quite frankly look look look I I I don't pretend to understand the mind of a Cardinals fan but if I were a Cardinals fan watching that deal I'd be like what the heck are you doing to us here Reds why you sending help to the team that's needed starting pitching help all year long anyway I digress J I understood it though try to get out from under what you had to pay the rest of the year to Frankie made a lot of sense and uh unfortunately yeah you did send it to the team in the division which is a big no no Nick crawl but I understood it if you were going to you you got to take the best package you can get in return for what was left of uh montos this year and get rid of that contract so I understood it but yeah I I was impressed by all of the red starters in this series um you know obviously uh the the game on Wednesday night uh Williamson looking that from the leftand side I I mentioned that in yesterday's episode I was like don't look now but the Reds if they can keep some of these guys healthy that's a nice little young fivan rotation you got built there and three of those guys are lefties where you got hunter green and Andrew Abbot and Nick Lolo and then you've got uh Williamson and then Rhett louder who you know looked fantastic at his start so um I was like look out like those guys stay healthy that that could be some trouble that's going to be the thing that they can really hang their head on this offseason I would like to see them go out and get another starter but it seems like they've got depth and even guys like I mean Carson spus came into the game the rubber match on Thursday and got his brains beat in a little bit he's been getting his brains beat in his last couple of appearances but he really had a nice run there whenever he was first called up and they were looking at him to maybe replace Graham Ashcraft and he said ain't no maybe about it I got this man just hang on but now it seems like fatigue is really caught up with him but he's going to be part of that depth for the Reds next year but yeah ultimately the Reds fall two out of three to this one um the the future and and we kind of mentioned it there uh is is interesting for both of these teams because it feels like the Cardinals and the Reds need to make some moves this off season but none of them are really like intuitive there's going to have to be some creativity in the front offices of both of our teams talk about what we mean coming up next first I want to tell you about tonel because look we all got busy schedules we all got lives that sometimes we just can't fit a work in into tonel is going to help you out with that and quite frankly JD I 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playoff picture this season and more so from the Cardinals because they're just always in the playoff picture even though they had such a tough year in 2023 they really bounced back well for most teams but for a team like the Cardinals with the kind of history that they have this sort of season is just kind of one of those I I would almost look at it as kind of like a tease because it's definitely teasing me as a Reds fan who I'm tired a losing and I thought we were done doing it here this season yeah I I I don't even know if I would say tease for the Cardinal side of it I I feel like they're disappointed again I I think the I think the front office at least beli that this team that they had put together was a playoff Contender the fan base myself included never thought that what they had assembled to start this year was enough Tim Robinson where you're like are you sure about that yeah I mean and it all started in the offseason when you saw the signings of Kyle Gibson and Lance Lyn that's not enough that it was never going to be enough uh the sunny gray signing was wonderful okay but you needed somebody kind of like a sunny gray levelwise to bring the team up to the level where it would be an actual Contender uh you did not see the the offense was going to be as bad as it was this year you didn't foresee Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman and Nat and Gman all these guys having these horrible Seasons that wasn't expected and I can't really put that on the front office but uh when it came to trying to put other pieces together for this team to take them to the next level I think that's where the letdown began before even a first pitch was thrown and uh you saw it in this series and uh you know there was comments made by your TV commentators about how empty the ballpark was and uh you know I remember Jeff Brantley former cardinal cardinal Legend Jeff Brantley uh made the comment where he's like I've been coming to St Louis to play ball and watch ball for 35 years I've never seen it like this where the fan base is just like we're we're tired of average being what they're striving for they're tired of hearing well if we get in no we don't want that anymore you know and and it's spoiled as the Cardinal have been over the years because that's the thing is like other franchises would kill for what they're doing you know to be two games over 500 at this point many teams would be happy with that but the the Cardinals consider at least the fan base considers themselves A step above that and they're going to look at this season as a as a disappointment as a waste and there's lot of things they contributed to it uh they they don't like the way that they have handled some of the younger players the the up and downs of Jordan Walker coming up coming down bring him up as a platoon player don't play him send him back like they're like what are you doing with this guy like like would the Reds have ever done that with Ellie De La Cruz when they brought him up because that's what Jordan Walker's supposed to be like not the same player but like their top prospect you know and that's just not how you treat these guys and it's baffling to uh Cardinals fans how the front office continuously gets this stuff wrong and they keep screwing young hitters up who end up either getting shipped off to other teams are just not having a great career altogether and then they go on to other places and succeed and it just drives everybody nuts so uh I I don't see this season as um a tease I I think it's considered a disappointment from our side yeah and I think it's interesting because they did that with Mason W but they don't do it with Jordan Walker I I wonder if they're seeing something behind the scenes that they're not wanting to talk about but it's always tough when it comes to that because there's certain players like that like rein is not on the same level he is not a can't miss Prospect in fact quite frankly I didn't expect him to make the major leagues this year but he came up he was on fire and then he kind of hit a cold spell I think at one point he was like one for 20 something something like that he was going through a slum and you're like okay well he's working through something the reds are kind of sliding out of the playoff race here let's see if he can work on it and sting down a AAA start seeing a bunch of other guys like he I believe the move to open up a roster spot for Dom Smith uh was to send reesin down he's like uhuh Dom Smith that's what we're going with all right I don't know about that but sure uh but that's kind of been the thing I think that is very similar about the Reds and the Cardinals is that both of the lineups have disappointed and for different reasons obviously gold and ronado kind of anchoring the the lineup you've got that veteran anchor we knew that the Reds didn't have a veteran anchor the Reds didn't go out and get that guy quite frankly that was a need that I thought they should have addressed this last offseason and they didn't and then that was a need at this trade deadline that the Reds had the weirdest trade deadline ever where they're like we're not going to sell and we're not going to buy but we're going to make moves and I don't know but they didn't go get them at the deadline and so now we're going into the offseason guess what I think they need a veteran guy to their lineup because they didn't develop anybody nobody really jumped up and said I'm your dude I'm your RBI machine I'm the guy in the middle of the order that you really have to worry about they've had some guys that have had some nice stretches but for the most part there is no Big Bopper and and and this team does not have the team power that I thought they did um I think a lot of that has to do with guys like will Benson really declining Noel V Marte just it felt like his career got reset by the p Ed suspension and then he had a hard time getting going we're seeing a little bit of better contact a little bit better play in the field here recently but is it to the point that I'm like pencil him in opening day third baseman next year no I I think that he's got a lot of work to do to earn his way back to where we thought he was and where we maybe got a little bit over excited about this spring training and then guys like CES what are they going to be what is Matt mlan going to be to this team after and and and quite frankly they still haven't an announc that they're going to shut him down I think they should there's no time left in the season and and they should really just focus on getting him healthy for next year but that then carries a question with it of he's going to be almost 600 days between games like it's going to be really tough for me to just be like yep we can pencil them into the middle of the order and feel good about it so there's definitely a lot of questions that the Reds have to answer this off season but the thing is nobody's going anywhere unless they get creative unless the Reds make a move where they trade a guy that you're not expecting that's only the the only way I can see it happening maybe they go out and they make a big free agent move in the Outfield but if they're going to be loyal to their guys and the Reds have been pretty loyal to their players over the last couple of years under Nick crawl then I'm a little bit worried about running it back again next year and expecting different results yeah and it's kind of the same thing with the Cardinals too is like all right so this off season you're looking at um Kyle Gibson Lance ly uh they both have Team options all right and you've already got you made the trade for Eric fety so you've got fety Sunny gray Stephen mattz is uh you know he's still there when he's healthy uh doesn't happen very of for 30 years hasn't he miles micheles is is still under contract for one more year there's a decision to be made there uh some people believe that he's a guy that you just need to cut bait on on because he's just not been very good for quite a while now um but the Cardinals aren't one of those teams that is like willing to eat 17.6 million or even 11 12 million just to get him out of the way so that somebody else can uh come through and take a spot Andre Palante as you mentioned uh is a guy that's given the the Reds fits these days and he definitely made some strides this year when he finally became a member of the starting rotation full-time where they were like no no no this is your spot man you're cool uh got a whole lot better and um so there's not really a lot of room for a guy like like a Gibson or a Lynn and you've got some young guys that you want to bring up but you still got four Dudes that you know you just had this year coming back as of right now you know so not a lot of turnover there on the offensive side of things where are you bringing anybody in you know uh Paul goldmit he's a free agent but you know how the Cardinals are they're they're probably going to try to extend him for a year or two see if he'll take a little less money uh and and bring him back second base you've got you know some you know Sai Gorman Donovan W's not going anywhere Nat's not going anywhere new canani Victor Scott what they're all coming back and this is the same team that you've kind of had for two years that hasn't won very much and like here we go like what are they gonna do like how do you move on from some of these guys and inject a little more life into this lineup and uh become a better team when you got all these dudes coming back I mean like you said they're going to have to get creative somehow if they're going to do any sort of turnover uh because even bringing in you know letting some of these young guys play um they're unproven and you learn the hard way with you know guys like Gorman who just ended up failing later on Jordan Walker even though he was very successful in the second half last year has been outside of the one game in New York against the Yankees hasn't really done anything at the major league level and he wasn't doing a ton at the triaa level so um that's got to make people nervous considering he was supposed to be your next guy and now this is an entire year of kind of like we don't know if he's any good now all of a sudden like we're not quite sure which is that's a scary proposition when he's supposed to be your guy it was supposed to be him and Mason wi and they were going to be the one two guys coming into this lineup and now one of them's Jordan Walker's missing Gorman's in Triple A now trying to learn how to hit the ball again like it's a mess and it's uh you expect them to take a step next year and become better but you thought they were going to do it this year too and it didn't happen and you saw the results where uh the offense as a whole suffered big time with them not doing what they were supposed to do and the regression of Aron and Goldman and that's kind of been the big thing for the Reds this year too is that you know progression is not a straight line like it's not cut and dry everybody's going to get better as much as we might have wanted it to cuz if if that was the case the Reds would be where we wanted them to be but there was a lot of guys man they took a step back this year so can we bet on them to take a step back forward maybe even two steps forward and and and cover some of the ground we thought they would do this year that's going to be the hard question and something that Nick craw needs to answer hopefully we'll see him do that this offseason but you know what JD when it comes to uh Nick crawl answering questions when it comes to John melc answering questions David Bell Oliver marmel can we tell the difference if we just look at what they said because I'm not so sure we can we're going to try or at least I'm gonna have you try because I have it written um coming up next there is still a little bit time left here in the Major League Baseball season for you 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games in the National Football League I actually want that was like the only uh bet that I placed last Sunday that I won is that I I bet on a money line that I doubled and I was was happy about it so make sure you go check that out winning is good I lost everything else though don't worry about that uh go over to fanduel.com lockon to take advantage of all the great offers that they've got today because FanDuel is America's number one sports book you can catch every pitch of the Reds and Cardinals Hometown broadcasts with serus XM just download the sxm app and search the word Reds or Cardinals all right finishing up talking about so we we we really touched a lot on the season series the two out of three series that the Cardinals just won we kind of looked ahead a little bit let's have some fun because I feel like in in maybe this offseason we do a bigger version of this with our friend Ethan Smith because I really feel like Derk Shelton David Bell and Oliver marmal could all talk like don't let me see their face but they could all talk and I'd be like it's the same person it's they're all the same person but I want to do four different I have four different quotes and we're and I'm going to have you guess who they are and the four people we'll narrow it down because there's a lot of people in the world but the four people that we're looking at is John melc Nick crawl David Bell Oliver marmel we're gonna see if you can guess who said and I do want to ask this real quick has anybody seen crawl and mosac in the same room at the same time because they're quite similar builds and looks and I'm I'm just curious is it is it AI generated does is every team got the O the same guy but it's just AI generated the image I feels like at least here in the central our guys at least yeah yeah they all say that well because they all have got the same type of owners that they're dealing with too so that that helps um but yeah let's try this let's okay here's the first quote that I'm gonna give you and I gotta guess which of the four S which of the four guys yes and I'll I'll give you a hint as far as when we're talking about the manager quotes they're after losses and the uh general manager quotes are talking about moves okay some of them though will be hard to talk about so this this is the first one this one I think this one's kind of easy but I didn't find a whole lot on him so let's see quote I feel like all these guys are Uber talented I think when last year I think when it comes to last year we didn't go like we wanted to go and a lot of pressure was put on individuals to do more than they could or should the belief we have with these players where they are in their careers they are Allstar caliber players I'm gonna go with John mosac on that one John mosac it was uh leading spring training yeah I I almost put too much of a hint in there and actually would have made the quote too long anyway but he he mentioned he's just like we added 15 new guys to the 40-man roster had a 38% turnover and it's so funny like I I don't like it when general managers do that man like don't tell me about the quantity tell me about what you fixed tell me about the holes that you addressed and things like that don't tell me about oh we brought in all these guys it's like yeah I went to Taco Bell and got a lot of tacos too but that yeah don't tell me about your fourth catcher that you added to the 40 man roster like no man I need to tell give me give me your top 15 guys and tell me they're better than the last 15 that you had on this team last year that's what that's where I need see the Improvement the depth stuff if you get there so be it but like that's not what I'm worried about when we're starting and uh I don't know I just didn't feel that uh Nick crawl would say something like I first I don't think he would say the word Uber or would he call anybody would he say All Stars for what the reds are doing because of the the Youth of the team I don't think he's ready to call them all all star yeah that's that's how I separated them and went with uh with Big Mo that's fair because he is I mean Nick CW is very general like he got in trouble early on in his career as a general manager for being too direct with his quotes and and trying to be a little bit creative with what he was saying PS be more boring is what they want you to be he take not J Mo zock is a most boring dude alive like even when he's excited he's like the guy uh from Ferris Bueller Bueller bu he's that guy right Ben Stein remember that dude that's who he is he's very much like got that benstein energy to him let's let's do another one here here's another quote we've done it quite a bit this year opponents have done it against us this year it's part of the game when you're on the wrong side of it it hurts when you're on the right side of it you know how important it is I'm gonna go David Bell two for two look at that this was after this was after the Red Sox when we when the Reds lost to the Red Sox four to three and steuart Fairchild had a game TI home run that was robbed by jiren Duran there in center field yeah and it it does hurt when it happens against you and when it goes your way it feels good yeah that that's very David belly yes I picked that because I'm like you could literally be talking about anything and quite frankly I don't even know that it needs to be baseball like it could be anything it's it reminds me of Bull Durham sometimes you win sometimes you lose sometimes it Reigns and okay cool make sure I write that down give me a direct quote direct quote um all right let's do another one here uh here's another quote quote they're going to take their best shot there are times they're going to come through there are times Mar you don't even have to continue anymore that is oi marmal to a te I've heard that phrase over and over he just just stop you right there Jeff that is Oli he was close this this I feel like reading this quote and then you you saying that he says it a lot I feel like what he did was he took that the quote that Michael Scott wrote up on the the marker board when he's just like you miss a 100% of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky said it Michael Scott said that Wayne Gretzky said it it's like maybe Oliver maral's like okay I can't say that so how do I what's you know what's like the the synonym you know where's the thesaurus for this thing and that's what he came up with was yeah was this and I feel bad for these guys because they never want to I don't want to say criticize because he learned the hard way last year with Tyler O'Neal when you say something about a player out in the media it doesn't go well in the clubhous so they can't they can't tear their own dudes apart and they got to sound positive as best they can but you could just tell when you've seen enough interviews when they're just like dude I get it we aren't good we understand that we're hitting 158 with Bases Loaded you guys going to have to keep telling me that I know we stink what do you want me to do about that's what he wants to say but he can't do that so he's gota be like you know we're gonna keep trying we're GNA compete we're gonna keep taking this we're gonna try to take good at bats and uh you know see what happens I trust these guys this is that's the yeah yeah it's um that David Bell's the same way and and because I kind of gave it away the the four different quotes the last one was Nick crawl and this was Nick craw's quote he said yeah I'm not going to comment on the market but at the same time he has been an impactful player for this team and he brings a lot of qualities to this team right now and hopefully gives us a chance to win this year yeah that could be that could that's a very Mo way to say it too where I'm not gonna I'm not gonna comment on the market like because he he tends to stay away from it which always makes me wonder how things get leaked because he never says anything like he never shows his hand probably a pretty good poker player behind the scenes is John mosac but um I it's it's strange man how um you know where both of these teams are very similar in record not so similar in age groups of what our teams are but still similar with how our front office is reacting to things and trying to build things and they're both kind of in a tough spot where they're they're they're all they all have a core that they've put their faith in and it's kind of ride or die with them right now because that's what you've got you've got so many guys that you believe in and you think are going to be good and you're just you're ready to move forward with that I mean this offseason when talking about making any sort of moves I don't know if either one of our franchises makes any sort of Splash whatsoever to be honest uh I think it's kind of these are the guys and you might Tinker with a couple of pieces but this is who they're hoping takes that next step yeah marginal moves here and there but I I think you're right as much as I hope that the Reds go get wano probably not gonna happen not if we get him first Jeff not if we get him first too many similar needs too many similar needs but hey that is a great spot to end today's crossover we'll be talking more throughout the offseason kind of doing some divisional Crossovers and things like that as we look at where the NL Central is going and and good Lord can somebody the Brewers are not a good team how are they a good team they're not a good team on paper but they're a good team on the field and it's just whatever it's annoying we we'll talk more about that this offseason how our two teams can overcome the Brewers but for now that's it for the Reds and Cardinals in 2024 will reconvene in 2025 but thanks so much for checking out this lockon Reds lockon Cardinals crossover we are part of the lockon podcast Network your team every single day