Trump Gets TORCHED by Jack Smith's Latest Indictment

I'm joined by Harry Litman from the talking feds YouTube channel and the talking feds podcast Harry special counsel Jack Smith is not backing down after the Supreme Court's absolute presidential immunity ruling he made some tweaks to the underlying indictment which was brought back in August of 2023 but he impanel a new grand jury the indictment was issued yesterday from the time when we're recording this video and it basically is almost identical to the original indictment there are some strategic tweaks referring to Donald Trump as citizen Donald Trump candidate Donald Trump and what's interesting here I want to get your take just on how aggressive special counsel Jack Smith is but what I kind of noticed as I read it is if you remember the blasing game case which is the immunity Doctrine in the Civil context after the Fitzgerald Nixon line of cases where the DC Circuit Court of Appeals found that absolute immunity didn't apply when Trump was engaged in campaign conduct and campaigning candidate Trump doesn't get immunity that would be that presidents would be entitled to using the term candidate and citizen a lot in this indictment blasting game stood out in my mind for that reason what did you make of this super aggressive yeah well look I'll put it this way as aggressive as it could have been there's one as everyone's noted the whole doj episode episode which sure seems criminal to all of us you try to get your uh doj to lie to Georgia and then as As Trump says my my folks in Congress will take care of the rest that's out but it had to be out because they made an Express point of it everything else I agree with you on all the first of all superseding indictment with not a small detail he imp panels a whole new grand jury whereas he was if you winow down it might not have been necessary but now we have the force of a whole new group of citizens has blessed this very set of allegations same for charges that's really key right he's saying I can prove my entire case and it it would be the same penalty to Trump if convicted Etc I can prove my entire case without using any material that the Supreme Court has said is uh immune uh and so all the four are still there now doj is gone and there's one other sort of category that he shied away from and took out which is discussions with White House Council but that seems to be also down the middle of um what the Supreme Court would be calling an official act but but there were five schemes in the original indictment Ben the uh the trying to brow be State officials the phony electors the doj that's gone but then the the brow beating of Pence and finally the the melee itself the four of them are still in and um yes besides the two things he took out he did these interesting tweaks to really stress this is candidate Trump then that's a private citizen a candidate and and it's the co-conspirators are private attorneys and the like that said I you know I think he is ready and must know he's going to get a real uh fight on his hands in particular leaving in all the Pence stuff because what the court said in the immunity opinion is it seems when you're talking with your vice president that ought to be immune but the Vice President also is the president of the Senate and there's a real effort in the indictment to make it all about that but it's you you can imagine a court especially the Supreme Court saying when I'm when he's on the wings of the Oval Office spanking Pence and and calling him every name and telling has to do it that's not really Pence as the president of the Senate but we'll see there's another thing he could try to prove which is even if it is um presumptively immune it wouldn't impair the functions of the um executive but that I'm getting down in the weeds what I want to do say basically is endorse your point that he went a about as broad as he could have and called the you know close calls in favor of re uh inserting them in the indictment and it means I think that he's he's ready or prepared for you know a a um No Holds Barred fight not just in front of chuin but but up the whole chain again through the DC circuit to the US Supreme Court you know the imagery that comes to mind is you know in the movies where you know whether it's Mission Impossible or whatever where they have to cut the blue wire or the red wire and one's going to blow them up and the other is sweat coming down his forehead right exactly you've got or or trip wire or those kind of you know laser trip wires that you have to you know as you as you imagine I don't want to really give Tom Cruz references but as Tom Cruz descends in the in the mission impossible and he's gotta I mean that's really what special counsel Jack Smith had to do here when he was asking for extra time three weeks ago what he was doing right is he was impaneling a new grand jury and he had to very carefully and surgically analyze every single letter of every single word and comma and period because the Supreme Court set this trip wire and not just one quite literally everywhere um to try to let's face it the Supreme Court tried to do it to help Donald Trump and unprecedented fashion I mean not sure if you saw katangi Brown Jackson gave that interview on one of the morning shows where Justice Jackson was like yeah I didn't think it was that difficult of a concept to believe that no one should be held above the law it's a very alarming concept to me based on everything I knew about or was you know learned about and did as a judge here but um you know I think he did it successfully but I think to your point what he gearing up for and I think our viewers and listeners need to know is a long-term battle you know he knows this is going to take time this is not now people evidentally hearing is that gonna he's gearing up in his mind I'm gonna go and say it to a 2026 2027 long-term kind of trial schedule with it with all the appeals that he thinks are going to take place he knows this isn't going to happen anytime soon what do you think yeah so I really agree and it's a big because he was focused on speed remember he was focusing it on before November now that that is off the boards either Trump wins and he knows the whole case goes away or he's going to do it his way and methodically but he obviously decided that um especially that Pence evidence he really can he really wanted to keep he got rid of of not just the doj stuff but other things involving say White House Council maybe this means remember that Pat zalone and Pat filbin the White House Council and Deputy White House Council gave what we have to imagine is really strong testimony in the grand jury because they gave pretty strong testimony what invoking executive privilege in the January 6 committee so would have been stronger he thinks he can do without it but but he uh really is uh ready to to um devote to to spend the time he's now not as worried about spending time and he's ready to spend the time uh to get the Pence stuff in and he that's what something he decided he really wants a jury to hear so he's doing it now yes at is at the at the pace that he knows the Supreme Court again because remember this is immunity so Trump in theory has a right for this stuff not to be heard at at all that was one of the broader points of the uh the immunity opinion you can't even get the evidence in so you can you JD Vance zeroed in on this right away they're going to come out of the box uh with with a real focus on Pence I think but it's a fight that um Smith knowing that it could take a while you don't you don't um we we've seen how long it can take to go up and down the federal courts is is ready to take on and as you say this probably the most important of all the cases for really getting at Trump's wickedness as a precedent I I think we should plan not to not to see a jury you know sworn for for at least a year but I'll say this as the Supreme Court said its own trip wire special counsel Jack Smith said its own trip wire and you know I could go and use all of the analogies or metaphors but what's set to Deton is after the election if Trump loses what you will see here based on I think how this indictment has been framed to your point about Pence I think what special counsel Jack Smith recognizes is is that even though Pence has been pretty forthcoming he's testified before the grand jury he's been outspoken he's written about it in the book He's not supporting Donald Trump I just think you all see after the election if and when vice president kamla Harris uh prevails there will be a domino effect I believe and a lot more witnesses are going to come forward and I think Jack Smith is also in the back of his mind thinking that you know that it could be either way it's going to be a very different environment to 2025 if by the way and he'll have a new boss right we have to imagine that she will she won't retain uh Garland and whom would she retain whom would she pick I'll bet sort of the front runner Adam Schiff and he has all the way through these years really ex you know taken the department to task for not moving fast enough Etc so so they could be playing say it again you think shift that's an interesting debate yeah I I think I yeah so yes that would be my gu well my guess of the front runner you know there's a lot when it comes to Kama you know we should have such problems but when it comes to K Harris filling out a cab it so many factors come into play but for her do uh attorney general I think is the plum prize the one she'll think about the most the one she'll really want to you know have have someone a strong be trustworthy shiff long time colleague in California yeah I I I think he would be a this this nobody nobody is a is close to a lot but I'll bet he's the front Runner here you heard it here first because when those stories come out that's that's my prediction you know the only thing that I would hesitate there was that you know with the run for Senate does he run for Senate and then make that transition after yes all yes you say there you no no no I'm saying that's a no look it's a good point he would have served the people of California for uh you know a month or two and once you're senator in California Senator in California is like the hardest thing in the world uh to to to get because the politics here as you know are so there's so many vagaries so that's a very good point but in any event I I will say this and with that with confidence Merck Garland uh she she'll choose somebody else and that and that will have very possibly part of the impact you're talking about well I'm glad we had that debate and discussion at the at the end everybody make sure you go to the talking feds YouTube channel um let's get them to three million subscribers how about that let's start with half a million subscribers then a million but Harry your Channel's doing great um you know and I just wish more and you're you're uh your your viewers and listeners are a really big part of it so thanks to to Midas world out there too so all you have to do is search talking feds YouTube super simple you hit subscribe it's free it's simple process and check out his podcast also thanks everybody for watching and have a good one thanks for tuning in if you enjoyed this video and other talking feds content please take a second to like And subscribe talk to you later