Update: A Talk With Turtleboy About Sandra Birchmore And Karen Read

all right this is we're back this is the case the first case EP episode in a while uh well over a year um and things have changed in a way stay the same but changed that things are moving fast uh in the area with Sandra which obviously from stoden died in Canton and now when you mention Canton uh all anybody talks about all anybody talks about around here anyways is the Karen recase uh s about my budy turtle boy in who's been front and center uh on the Karen re it's kind of become your life really I'd say so I mean yeah took 60 days of it at least that's true that's true yeah for now uh so like I think everybody listening to this podcast definitely knows but if you want to give us Karen Reed in 90 or is you know you know what I mean like basic facts I think everybody listening probably 90c overview the best you can do yeah uh a woman was uh charged with murdering her boyfriend who Boston police officer by running him over and leaving him to die in the cold after dropping him off at a party uh it would seemed like an open and shut case until more and more evidence came out showing that uh the guy was actually likely inside the house and was probably beaten to death in there and then thrown out in the lawn to make it look like she did it the house belongs to a Boston police officer uh there were people in the house uh who were ALS another police officer who's a federal agent for the ATF and people that in were in there that were hostile to them a woman in the house Googled how long to die in the cold at 2:27 a.m. and then deleted did that Google search um hours before his body was discovered and the lead investigator in this whole thing uh is a towy named Michael Proctor who has known these people for quite some time is more than just friends with them is basically family with them and covered up a lot of facts didn't interview people that could you know show that Karen Reed was innocent and that his body wasn't on the front lawn and so that's how we got where we are today okay you've done a great job obviously you've led the charge on this thing wild I mean to jail for it's crazy absolutely crazy so this story is one of the biggest stories in the country right now how far would you say in proximity to where that crime occurred death occurred to where Sandra's body was found so Sandra's body was found right on the stoen can line the line right on the apartments yeah yeah and how far like physically or a couple of miles if that yeah like yeah John's body was yeah more towards the center of town I guess so yeah probably like three or four miles away so it's funny when uh my old producer Dave colony and I work on season two of the case um I'm probably get this wrong I don't think you would started working on the no I no she wouldn't this couple years before yeah when you did the case I had written about it before but I took the I just we called we called you right we called you and you said no I think I think it's a suicide I didn't I didn't think otherwise who would think that that would happen right you had done you had looked into it much whatever so uh and you've written about it obviously subsequently so now I think you're on board with myself yes and probably very many of the listeners of season two of the case and a lot of people who follow you that uh and again this is our opinion we don't know anything for sure that Matthew Farwell uh in fact murdered s burchmore yeah I mean if I were a batting man I think I think that's the most likely scenario what changed well just I didn't I honestly I've been a back the blue guy I guess I didn't think police would do something like this like you trust the institutions and you don't think that they can get away with murdering you know a pregnant woman like this like okay so maybe one cop is capable of that but you don't think that other cops will then protect him go out of their way to protect him and you know I after listening to your podcast you're like oh [ __ ] this is actually a lot deeper like you just don't you want to think the best of people that somebody wouldn't do that until proven guilty I mean it's better if it's a suicide because it's just like well that's horrific and you know tragic but at least it's not like dark and evil you know and that's you you don't want to think the worst of society but I don't know what what other conclusion to reach now I'm also not I'm Not Bent toward conspiracy anyway like my nature is usually the believe like like this person I when I I've been looking potential season 3 cases all the time right so I'll see somebody will send me a story and I know you get a million submitted to you so people submit me stories and I'll look at it I'll say that is interesting at and they send you their version right like a sister or a family friend and it frames and then you dig a little deeper and it's like well maybe that's not exactly what happened here you know with this story um I was the same way I had people reach out to me we looked at the story I thought well but then things just started adding up and the Matthew Farwell of it all just seemed to me to be sort of overwhelming but you're right like my initial reaction all the time is to think is to think what is reported and then you try and kind of figure out you know but I I still because who would protect Matthew Farwell like why would they want to protect him well I guess my question with that is like from a skeptic's perspective like how does it work and that's the question I always ask how does it work like so Matthew Farwell is the last person to see Sandra alive the night before he goes and you know we've seen the footage people listening definitely seen the footage he goes into the apartment he goes upstairs mask on with a mask on I was heard he's like not a mask guy he's definitely not a mask the people I've talked to that this is not a mask guy so he goes in there but I but you can make the case that he's wearing a mask because he's trying to hide his identity because he doesn't want people in the building to know right but he's not normally the kind I heard he was like an anti- guy no but I'm saying he's just he's just protecting his identity so people that's exactly why he's wearing a mask not cuz he's worried about Co right we you're right we agre yeah yeah right correct so he goes up so he goes upstairs goes back downstairs leaves goes by the way to the hospital where his baby's being born the next day remember that's right um and Sandra burchmore who I was just fny when you I was waiting for you I was looking at old texts that people sent me uh that she would send people just endless texture as you know texts all the time never sends a text again is dead never heard from again and you're right like could she have committed suicide sure what I keep going back to is everybody we'll get into the similar names with the Karen rease everybody just swept it under the rug immediately as a suicide and not a single question was asked ever until it was made public ever never nobody in the apartment not even like when it was but like nobody in the apartment during the process of it everybody just wrote it off as a suicide from the start because it made sense it made sense without knowing her all about her and digging into like who she is he didn't know she was had this relationship with Farwell for instance right like it just seemed like okay I get it she's pregnant and she got dumped in this guy she wanted to be with this guy and he didn't want to be with her she had a long history of mental right and so she's like sad and and she's like kind of like yeah she's got like [ __ ] up long family life history right she's been been through a lot of trauma and she's being passed around the department like a sexual object like she's probably [ __ ] in the head the assump right they prayed on her Divine in the Farwell and that's how it was presented when it happened like shame on these cops for passing this woman around and and causing her the mental health issues that led to her suicide that's the way I thought it what what names so we went through a bunch of names what names jump out to you you've done a I read them last night in the past you've done a bunch of Stories on Sandra now too what are the names that jump out to you that are similar to The the reading they're involved in both OB Michael Michael lank who was first on the scene Kevin Albert yep and uh Nicholas Gino right those are the three and then oh and Fanning and Fanning Fu [ __ ] hate Fanning he came to my house he was one of the people who arrested me hate gu right Fanning arrested you that's he was one of the people there [ __ ] hate that guy so I talked to fan few times I guess technically off the Record well you know this the season's over now a few times and he was he was one of these guys so um well tell tell people about Johan fan we talked about little he's liutenant detective from the norfol County District Attorney's office he's got this like rags to Rich's story like spoke at stoen high school once and he's like you know he's from the project or something who knows if it's his mom and dad were on crack and blah blah blah became a state police officer State Police Troop along the way and now is Lieutenant and is kind of Michael Proctor's B the guy that's been in charge or one of Michael Proctor's bosses that really should have been holding him accountable when he had all these conflicts right so he you know did the investigation in the Sandra as well I talked to him a few times and he steadfastly believes that she committed suicide shock still to the state now the question is does he actually believe that I don't know you know I I I I don't I don't know I wonder that sometimes myself do these people actually believe K re did this like do they or do they just not want to come to the terms with the fact that one of their own could do something like this could cover and the question I always go back to and we'll get to the Sanders stuff and and Karen is like it's a lot of work I think to pull off a something like this like there's a trem like is it is it well the birchmore one well is it but I mean is it is it worth it is it worth protecting Matthew Farwell like why I think it took much work at all I think it was a lot of easier to just ignore it and be like yeah suicide I guess but now but now they're starting to face I think ramifications the FBI is now we think the Attorney General's office took over the investigation they took over the investigation so now now you know will there be and I think you wrote this and I think you're right it's almost now they don't even want to know if Farwell killed Sandra it's more they want to find out who was protecting Farwell right that's where the real story is I think in their minds I mean I would love to see Farwell brought to Justice I don't know how that could happen how could they ever bring him to Justice at this point it's just I just think that's I just I I said this the end end of the season I just feel like that's just something they can't how how can they do that got there's no forensic Evans the apartment's been running out a million times it's over like they they lost their chance to get him right my opinion uh but lank was one of the first people on site for so right what's interesting about lank is he in the report um noted all the times I think in the 48 hours before that Sandra was getting in and out of the elevator so that was really the only place where you could see them in the entire building was really on that coming in out of the elevator she was on the second floor um I think he noted it was maybe seven or eight times but I found it interesting and maybe you said this too that he never noted that Farwell was there that's true yeah he never did he must have there's no question a he saw him and B he definitely knew who he was yeah you say 65 huge you think he knew he was I mean it's two two towns that border each other he's a detective maybe maybe I mean I yeah to be fair I don't know that bar seem like weirdos to me just like I don't I don't feel like good old boys they seem like creeps we got Matt on the phone once off the record for about 15 seconds it was not the big heart to talk to us I don't blame him but I just think the saddest you know it's such a tragic her life was was so tragic and we talked about this in our season was you know one of the reasons why we kept buting our heads against the wall banging and I think you've been you know you've been you've led the charge but now you have a ton of people who want to tell you stuff about Karen Reed want to tell Sandra had nobody on her side but even the people who think that Karen Reed like there's there's some people who are like Karen Reed I think did it but it's Universal that Sandra burchmore was murdered like it's much more so why isn't it it's crazy why isn't it though I mean I know the Karen Reed story is SW support that's the difference we we had family support a had the grand the grandmother weird relationship so she died then Aunt very strange relationship right very strange relationship and I found again my opinion her lawyer uh the producer of season 2 Dave con and your buddy and I went to uh went to go see him he was like uh he has offices somewhere like on route one and it was like kind of like a almost an office like my office and I remember we had to tell this is pretty far into it he wouldn't give us any of the information we actually told told him about Josh heel oh right he had never heard of him what he never heard of him never until that day had no idea he suspended didn't they I think it was I think it might have been after that or during I don't know but he didn't even know he then he was then later added to the lawsuit that was after he talked to us this is a guy who didn't know you know and heel was the um um abaro uh cop with the uh Abington Abington Sor Abington cop with the with the with the dog yeah that he's the weirdest one of them all weird stange again another guy who we think was trading giving sand Birch JS fors jobs for just a sick bastard we talked to members of his family just a but this guy had no idea but so I felt like in the first season we did um down South Carolina Brock we had a million people telling us telling and I just felt so bad and still feel bad for Sandra that we couldn't land it because we just couldn't nobody was telling us anything nobody whereas now uh you know it's starting to come up a little bit more popping up a little more which I think is a good thing I just don't know I don't know how it ends I just don't know how it ends but yeah so Lan is one yeah so what what is lank's role in uh the recase so his role in the recase was that he was uh a close personal friend of the Alberts and at around nine o' after Karen Reed had gone been involuntarily sectioned in the hospital after they three hours after they found the body Jennifer mccab called him on her personal his personal cell phone and said can you come back to the house I suddenly remembered that Karen Reed said something really incriminating like I hit him I hit him I hit him and and so she brings him down there and says that so he's kind it but the Canton police were no longer on the case the state police had taken over so why she's calling the Canton Police to do that and you know what he and he's the only cop that entered the house he's the he's the first cop to enter the house and he didn't look around like they found a dead body on the front lawn missing a shoe with shattered cocktail glass all around them and they didn't say Brian can we look around your house you know like the state police searched my house and like took all my cell phones and all this stuff because of comments I made on a YouTube show I should have thrown a dead cop on my front lawn and then they would leave me alone cuz it's like Kryptonite to them they like they literally wouldn't search a guy so lank didn't do that and he wouldn't any other person's house they find a dead body in the lawn they're coming in they're going to look around but Michael lank does a favor to Brian Albert we don't want we don't want to make Brian Albert feel uncomfortable so he's he's the toy you know hook him up cop which is interesting he's first on the case that's my guess my point is he's first there for Sandra as well right first to arrive which again I I I am this is a reach I don't know if he knew Farwell we couldn't we had Hard Times Making Connections like that but I wouldn't be surprised if he did I'm sure they know each other you I mean come on these small town cops you know like they're bordering each other I don't like far I I Al and K are so connected to right next to each obvious the Proctor's partner there he's from Sten went to Sten a lot of these guys went to Sten Matt mccab went to Sten high school it's like the same [ __ ] uh what's L's history is an officer in town so he's uh about 20 years ago when this is brought up at the murder trial um there was a fight involving a guy named Chris Albert like The Idiot Brother of Brian Albert he got in a fight with these brothers called the lapala brothers and he got beat up and he ran to lank who was off the clock drinking drunk and lank clocks in decides he's going to deputize himself now tells these guys they're under arrest they don't they they it leads to a fight between them he bites them or something like that and then has them charged that they end up beating the case they get found not guilty I actually talked to the prosecutor who was was furious with the campon police cuz they hid information from him they didn't tell him about some of the things that L had done long story short they the laala brothers not only get acquitted they end up suing the town and who has to make a a has to settle this because of lank's behavior he gets a promotion to Sergeant later on and then a promotion to Lieutenant so that's how you rise in the ranks um of the Canton toy Mafia um well it's also interesting too is that Robert dine is one of the one of the guys obviously who groom sander was was part of it uh has a have a pretty tight well feels like they had a pretty good relationship with mors Mor yeah there's that picture of them together right yeah do you know any more about that or no I mean that's the only thing I could find is that weird they look like so weird together creepy in that he's the he's but he's another guy he's skating away he's the Bigg and he's the most defiant after the all all came out like he threaten to Sue or something he threaten to sue the globe whoever was writing about it and it's just like he never did of course cuz he's an attorney now right isn't he yeah sort of he's not really practicing we tried to figure that out we tried to contact him he didn't want to talk to us he's an ATT but like nobody's going to Robert Divine as a lawyer like it's a Google search like you're not you're not going but yes I will say to be totally fair you know people listen to the case aren't necessarily people listen to my other show so they don't know this like I had to be fair like uh is it Laura cremaldi is that her name uh is that a writer for the globe yeah yeah yeah the globe has actually done a decent job on the birchmore case they clearly she has a couple of sources and they've actually like gotten the story moving forward to to to their credit I hate saying it but they've actually a pretty good job yeah um the third name is uh Kevin Albert right well the second name is Kevin Albert second name is Kevin Albert Kevin Albert's the brother of Brian and Chris Albert he's the detective in Canton um and you know it's hard to believe that he was not that you know a murder happens to Brian Albert's house and that Kevin Albert's not gonna have anything to do with helping a make sure this goes away uh but he was he was a detective who was initially assigned to the birchmore that's correct and then they the state police took over the investigation so was no longer on there but I from my understanding he was limit you know his involving his involvement was limited but he didn't do much as far as like investigating whether or not this could potentially be a homicide do you find and I struggled with this when I was doing the uh when I was doing my season do you find that these people are corrupt or incompetent or just a mixture um or more of which is more I guess I think more corrupt i' like i' like to think incompetent but they're don't you think there's some incompetence when you see this I mean I see some there's definitely some incompetence you know like but why but like the level of like I don't know so we're we're in Watertown right now right so do you think like Watertown and Belmont have this like corrup I mean like where does it why is this happening in Canton and St I don't know like my and by the way there's a long there's a long history of this stuff going on in STO like a long so oh absolutely like what is I don't know why like what I I gotta be honest my local I can't relate my local Town Police Department in Holden it's close to to the size of Canton it's like this wouldn't happen in Holden like it would not happen there's it's like and the police department there like they like me they like the stories I do they would do me no favors like they were going to arrest me on on Christmas Eve when I had both they came to my house to arrest me they're not going to hook me up they're not going to give me a tip or anything like that and and and they're very professional and by the book I just feel like it's not that way in in Canton or Sten and I don't know why I I can't figure I just can't really figure that out leadership either it's just leadership you have these Chiefs that you mean like a mnam or no the the the lady she's the the woman Chief from stoen there was one she's new though it was like she was the ones before her yeah Divine yeah like people like Divine go you know go up in the ranks the can helina raford and Ken burwitz are there the most two useless Towny slugs ever was the one that came the one who ran over somebody yeah she ran over someone and rent them guy we like uh what they wear in like a she's wearing a reflector vest an old guy but they this is during the read case there's a woman who is being accused of running of of killing somebody running over keep and they she she HD this is what I mean so she hid the fact for like two months right that she I got a tip about it and then we went down broke it right yeah like what the you know so she so she's in charge and she runs over some guy wearing like reflectors right yeah she drunk ring right she just ran them over no she was yeah she was sober she blew ear but it's like it's not a big deal but she didn't tell anyone it happened like you hid this fact while all this other massive thing and you were driving like a town issued vehicle at the time what the hell I mean like she lives in a $1.8 million house in she married to money or no she mared she's divorced and she makes this guy we looked all into her finances was she married to a firefighter am I getting that wrong yeah a firefighter yeah and she divorced him and she's all her kids are grown and she still makes the poor guy pay like $2,500 a month in she living in the $2 million whatever 1. I don't know I think that's why she needs all this child support money like from this guy to pay you know it's she it's a huge mansion like it's crazy and this woman helina rafy in August after I held the peaceful protest in town which we went to the homes and I was indicted for this since then we went to the homes of several um uh of the people involved Michael Proctor Jennifer McCabe and peacefully protested for seven minutes outside of their homes explained their involvement in it and moved on no vandalism and we didn't see a single cop all day they just let this happen and two weeks later at a select board meeting she gives the speech where she says uh well this is a witness intimidation and we're investigating this you let it happen in your town and she let me be clear there is no evidence whatsoever of a conspiracy in the Karen R are you kidding me no evidence and so this is just the kind of towy [ __ ] that you see if that's the leadership that no wonder cops feel unbled to act like that um the celebrate celebrate yeah um so col and I really Str struggled to figure out why this wasn't a bigger part of the to me this is the biggest part bir the Gino thing right yes the uh of the birchmore situation um and this plays into the re case as well absolutely and if I'm correct they were able to use it for uh uh like a Brian Walsh case right yeah they have no problem with Brian Walsh that works so your your buddy Brian Walsh my buy yeah you in prison with Brian Walsh in prison with him yeah by the way they never found her body right they still haven't found her body thats they got him almost entirely on Google searches right it might have been in some blood in the house but yeah most like the king of like maybe the gold medal of all time dumb Google search literally chop my favor was how to chop up A50 body if you need to like if they're going to find it I'm not saying I need to I do but not this similar to to obviously sort of the I think the biggest part most people if you ask most people like the number one Family Feud answer the read case is the Google search yes yes right so like they aren't able to use that for for Sandra stuff they aren't able to use that for like we we just kept being we were kept being told they not able to use it doesn't work not being able to work um what Google searches they look for Andress yeah they they had they had access to her phone and they didn't look for her Google sear that's what they said we had the celebrate issues the whole time with this by the way there were boy it's been I I think there were 36,000 text messages between birchmore and Matt Farwell from December 19th until she died all deleted and he and Farwell handed in his phone and his phone and Gino said there you go so this is our this is our third guy yeah so Gino is works for the norford County detectives unit yep and uh he's a trooper and he's their forensic expert whatever that means he went to Westfield State I call him Westfield State graduate Nicholas Gino and he's the cream of the crop when it come he's like supposedly an expert he's a former Norwood cop right so what the hell does he know how is he a I want a nerd feels like a feels like miscasting right I want a nerd I want a date a nerd does this for a living I don't know on some cop who took a class and celebr feels like he stumbled up right exactly when they needed somebody to be the cell phone guy and so like oh question also to me kind of like well why do you want that person there why do they want like in a way like it's almost like good in a situation like this to have a dummy there right yeah and they just want there is just a lot of Conformity they don't want ask and I don't want to s be go on one of these right-wing rants but the covid [ __ ] like with the vaccine this terribly they want they want people who just comply and go along and that's what the vaccine was they want good just like get the shot don't ask questions do it and that's what they want they want people like Gino who just do it just do it like will never question [ __ ] go to get like you forced that one in there I did but it's like it's the same well Michael Proctor's on like we lost there's some good state troopers we probably lost but we kept Michael Proctor he's a good guy because he got the vaccine right so so yeah so for for I'm just using the Anna Walsh example where you know people are listening this they may not know that would have been uh a year and a half ago New Year's Eve going 23 going into 23 yeah right so she was murdered definitely we think by your by your husband Brian Wall so they find like you said all kinds of insane Google searches but uh with Sandra's case we're in the and this is the same case with with with Karen Reed right yeah so they they said that um in the Gino case and Dave's the one that sent me this he's like Gino shady and it was an exerpt from one of the case filings and it said that he looked for deleted messages in um farwell's phone but he didn't know how to find them how to find them know how to find deleted messages correct that's that right exactly thank you so that was the thing that we kept cuz we kept saying like like I probably wouldn't know how to find that but like I'm stupid with that stuff you don't need to know you plug it into the machine it does it for you they should know like that's what they're hired to do and to me it was like well my guess is they could find somebody like it's probably a phone call to find somebody who could do it yeah why aren't I remember saying it's a call and name working on it why aren't they making this phone call to this person yeah it's I think I know the answer but you know and and they did the same thing with Jennifer MC's phone she hands her phone over for a data extraction in February of 2022 Nicholas Gino does a full data extraction doesn't find anything you know incriminating and then the defense gets access to the phone and they have their expert who is in dat a nerd who does this for a living He downloads it he finds uh a Google search at 227 for how long to die in cold that was deleted he finds uh 20 phone calls between 5: and 9:00 a.m. right around the time the body that are deleted including two phone calls to her sister outside the house that her sister answered at 607 and at 608 and they're all just deleted and none of this came up when Gino did his data extraction and their excuse for this is oh we didn't have the updated software this is the Massachusetts State Police 202 right exactly we're not in like 1998 it's 2022 you had the ACT stop it and my guess is you could tell me what is his current position same position as not not been penalized for having a massive screw up no penalty nothing today he's going in and just doing the same job exactly be assigned to a new case Michael Proctor is still investigating Mur wa who has lost their job nobody under internal affairs investigation right now and he's still working murders right so there's a murder today in wherever wayth he could be assigned St he's going to show up and be on the case he'll be inside and L if there's a murder in if some a dead body in can L could show up yep L could show he will show right very will show up so nothing I mean Farwell is no longer working his brother is no longer working Divine is no longer working but like other but in the rease themselves itself who has lost their job nobody not a single not a single person not a single cop has lost their job that's for sure Ken Reed lost her job Fidelity that's that that's the only thing I could think of how is this gonna play out I mean I I find it impossible like this is what I keep saying yeah I just find it possible 12 human beings to come to the conclusion that she did this that just seems just impossible that that oh 12 jurors oh I've seen the jury they're not they're not convicting this one no way so she's what's gonna happen is she's going to be acquitted and then they're going to turn her into uh you know Casey Anthony like the people that say she's guilty are still going to say she's guilty yeah murder and they're GNA blame me oh the pr campaign did it you influenced the jury blah blah blah and you know there's this whole other thing going on with the FBI investigation into the investigation itself and I had high hopes for that but at this point like as of like basically this week I've I've I no longer believe the feds are going to do [ __ ] why is that I just think they would have done something by now I think they would have like you know like I don't think if they had anything on them that could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did this but I think it's just too late like the house has been cleaned the floor has been ripped up the forensic evidence is gone like you yeah you got the Google search but that's not enough to convict her you know a good attorney can try to explain that away like that's not proof of a murder um so so and all these people do I mean they're family they're not going to turn on each other how about how about birchmore how about that investigation going anywhere either I don't I don't it's like I I think they're gonna get I don't think anyone would ever be arrested or go to jail for either of them to be perfectly honest with you it is CRA like so so nothing nothing's GNA happen like you don't think anybody will ever be no forget forget saying you don't think anybody ever be prosecuted other than Karen Reed for this other yeah and I think that's why they're doing this to to appease J O's family to make it look like they tried they don't give a [ __ ] [ __ ] about John O's family and and and I've been critical of them and I'm going to continue to be because they have the ability to do something about like they have the ability to say no this investigation's [ __ ] and John deserve better than this and we demand answers this isn't adding up but instead they're they've been conned into believing Karen alone did this they don't like her personally and honestly her personality doesn't help I'll be perfectly honest with oh for sure but that I that shouldn't be she's kind of you know like I think she's Innocent but she can come across as a sure I don't think that of course that should not be a reason for to be found guilty but that's the world we live in yeah they don't like her they don't like her personality they don't like her personality and they would rather believe that she did it than all these people who are in their Circle and give their kids rides to soccer practice that they did it well do you talk to cops in that Police Department who think police I don't have any sources but I don't know what they're thinking but I've talked to a lot of cops in general who believe that she she's completely innocent did anybody in that Police Department try and strong arm you at all like off the Record no nothing no they sing no no off try to strong arm me they just whatever intimidate you or I mean I've been you know uh I can't I used to hold these protests outside of Chris Albert's Pizza Shop I would go out there one man film myself stream myself and then uh you know being like this guy I called the blood Pizza inside they're serving blood pizza and you know Colin was inside the house stuff like that and he would call the cops on me every time and the cops would come down and I I'd just be like yeah he called the cops I'm like I'm not doing anything un peacefully protested on a sidewalk and they go okay that's fine you can go your Merry way but after I was charged with witness intimidation uh a solidarity protest took place about a month later and we called these people to Canton n they held a protest in favor of Karen Reed and turtleboy across the street from d& pizza and the cops came down and charged all them with witness intimidation so they've basically outlawed they've taken this witness intimidation statute and weaponized it to just crush the First Amendment yeah I mean it's yeah I just keep going back it's it is wild to think like if we do this a year from now my guess is nothing's going to change like like she'll be found not guilty okay great there won't be another trial Sandra's thing will get swept under the rug and it's just GNA yeah but you know what like that's attention you brought a lot of attention to it which is great but I don't know what that means and these people will have the Scarlet a on them forever like when gab goes to the grocery store I take pride in the fact that everybody knows what she did like at least I did that at least I destroyed you know um I I made the World aware of of who she is she's not this wonderful soccer mom she's actually a coldblooded killer I believe that with every I mean the facts show that and uh I was proud to do that and make sure the world knows that about her yeah I mean I wish I was I mean I wish Farwell was facing a little more heat but he just hasn't he's disappeared yeah he's checked out as you should you know like Brian Albert's disappeared too A lot of these people went off the grid which is smart but the the the what make Jennifer mccab and Chris Albert so evil in is they they go around town like nothing's happened like they Chris Albert's on a goddamn Board of selectman and every meeting people show up and just roast him and CU he he went to jail previously for killing a man in 1994 in a hit run yeah 30 years ago right yeah 30 years ago so like and and people bring that up so like that that's the difference is these people are just so Brazen like they insist on just going out and living life like normal like we're completely innocent so we're going to live life and show up and you know like on on and she just shows up to court dates smiling and stuff like that Jennifer mccab does she rubs the back of of of the o'keef she started a support group called Peggy's angels for for her mother saw this dude it's like morbid what the thing I noticed when I dig into these stories season one and season there's just a lot of weird people out there there's just a lot of weird people a lot of time on their hands and they just think the world's against them even if they even if they do something stupid they think the world's this just obviously like a diali season one if people listen they're just people who are just crazy they just crazy that's all I mean maybe she's maybe she's one of them I you know I evil like sociopath right like to do something to to Google that and be like let's I don't understand why like okay so what I think happened is a fight took place in the house right and it went too far you know yeah you don't think it was a premeditate that would be stupid that' be the dumbest crime ever like nobody thinks that and so I think that he went over there drunk he walks in somebody's in there has a problem with him they exchange words John probably hit him too got got his licks in cuz he had you know bruises on his hand and you know and then it got too it went too far maybe he fell back and hit his head on something and that caused him to you know have that huge gash I don't know but it seems like it was if I were them it would be explainable but like look at a fight happened John he hit us first we were defending ourselves and then you know I pushed him back and he hit his head on this thing like I don't understand why they just didn't do that instead they're like [ __ ] it like let him die well I never understand is if it's all true the cops who show up why are they so willing to take part in this conspiracy like which cops like the lengths of the world yeah like what's the what's the like I don't think they had taken it in what had happened I think they were just useful idiots I don't think think they even knew no I don't think they knew I think they you Mel LS just like it's his buddy we're gonna give you a professional courtesy We're not gonna bust your balls Brian I'm sure it didn't think that like oh J this guy was murdered in here you guys put him all on the lawn I honestly don't think mik when I heard Michael L's testimony I don't think he had any clue at first what he was walking into right and he just gave Brian a professional courtesy of not busting his chops and searching his house yeah I guess going back to sander though I find it unlikely that a bunch of cops outside of divine in the far Wells and heel didn't know that Sandra was being passed around by these guys I feel like guys just talk like if they're willing to share with these other guys like like uh uh dine knew about the I mean he he basically groomed the Farwell like you know he was yeah he was like he was in charge and you know I mean he's using Sanders doing that stupid Marty rig stuff like just a nut so like I find it very unlikely that these guys weren't out bragging like other cops must have known so when Sandra birchmore is found dead like that name must have connected to some of these guys I'm sure oh Jesus this is her but they never yep nobody ever raised the question nobody ever said why it's the only profession on Earth policing is where you know it's you don't you don't rat on the worst of the worst like I used to be a teacher right and if a te if another teacher which happened in the school was accused like diddling a kid or [ __ ] a kid you know something like that we can't wait to disassociate with this guy and the union does not back you up and like nobody comes to his defense and like no he's a good guy he would never do that and it's the kids father you know we there's nothing like that there's no culture that exists like that firefighting it doesn't exist it only exists in policing this idea that like we can't ever criticize one of our our own right I mean and it led to you know obviously the this sort of Explorer Program thing which is a whole other part of the story that I mean I don't know like I couldn't believe the size and scope of the Explorer abuse around the country I mean there was a whole episode you did the whole episode thousands and thousands and thousands of examples around America so that's another part of it does it still exist do they still do something like that some some do in Massachusetts yeah some do it's way way small but like you know obviously parts of the country that are more still willing to believe everything the police say is true yeah it's more prominent in like say say red States totally totally is you know again like it's just it doesn't like I wouldn't send my kid to a priest oh yeah I mean like that's the irony with the red State Blues like the MCC Alberts are magot people correct like they are people that like I heard they own turtle boy stuff I got a text message from johon o'keef cell phone Julie in in 2021 I'd written a story about some girl on a bus in Canton a middle school girl who was being bullied because she didn't support BLM or something like that and I wrote about it and I Expo you know called out the principal like usually do [ __ ] like that joh O'Keefe sent that in a text message to Julie Albert who is the mother of Colin Albert in in 2021 and he sends her a link to it and she responds back oh my God my worst nightmare is being featured on Turtle boy now she's been on like hundreds of times she was the one that said a trial too she said [ __ ] did you hear her say that I did hear that I I named him [ __ ] and it's just I was in court for the first time and she must have seen me I'm like in her head she's like Sergeant uh bukaki and instead of correcting herself she goes like buan right uh bukaki we're taping this on what is it may what 29th so they're off for the rest of this week yeah for the trial of course Massachusetts we know that yeah um but we're not even like close to the trial being done right no not then we're only going three days next week only three days next why only three days next week I'm told it's because because of the jury and how hard it was to pick it you had to like a lot of these people had conflicts like you know personal conflicts because you can't have one miss a day they all have to be there for every single day alternate right so they tell them ahead of time like yeah I have like um you know my kids graduating something I can't be here on this day and they say well okay well you're it's hard enough finding people to be in this jury you're good enough we'll accommodate you and I think that's what's happening so we got three days next week the prosecution still has like 40 people left on their list that's mean it's going to take forever right yeah I has started yet obviously yeah the fence hasn't started so this will go to the Fourth of July I'm guessing Jesus it's wild crazy almost a three-month trial um and like you said so you predict not guilty no change Sandra nothing nothing that's my guess is that depressing it's just depressing I mean and I appreciate the work you've done on on Karen rease and I appreciate you helping bring Sandra back to light too because it's like honestly like a super for me heartbreaking I called it a um a noble failure cuz busted our ass we just kept buing our head like I said we kept raming our head against the wall and I feel like it's just like you said you know I went calling I went to those apartments a couple of times we tried to get into the actual apartment that was I mean I wouldn't be surprised if three people have lived there since then yeah like we're way past the point of finding I mean the way she killed herself doesn't make it you see I think brought this up season two of The Wire with D'Angelo barkdale correct it's a prison suicide the way she did it like that's what you do when you have no other way to do it you know you can't there's no bridge to jump off of you know I mean so like she the way she did it it's like that's the hardest way to do it too cuz you have to actively you stand on AOL and then you let go and then it's too late I remember we first saw what happened Cony and I were he was trying to show me how it worked yeah and I remember the wire same I was like there's there's no way now remember farwell's another guy with military training too and you know if Sandra was five I don't even know what she was five one five Farwell 65 like you saw he's a big guy surveillance video shows the difference right he's like 2 you know and this a guy who went that night in like a not a crazy snow storm but a snow storm around Massachusetts drove there went in left as I said she never texted anybody to break up he said right to break up deleted all of his communication right and blocked her on everything he left yeah and drove from there to Newton Welsley hospital where he had a kid the next day yeah that's wild crazy like crazy why would you couldn't you just break up be a Tex I mean you have to do it in she's not your wife she's your side piece I mean we sus I mean my suspicion is that he was there for other reasons obviously yeah well no but I'm saying I I think it's actually similar in a weird way my my again total Theory like you we all have theories my theory is he was not there to do that I think he was trying to you know have another one of these endless conversations they were having about like don't have the baby don't have the baby my guess is he also went there probably for other reasons of four grand a month yes I also think I think I think he was also there for some gratification probably is my guess probably my guess is that the fight happened and finally he just he just snapped he snapped that is again completely obviously just a theory I don't know that like she wanted like $44,000 a month she had picked out a daycare that was like wicked expensive crazy expensive but she was she was a she was a stunted kid like she was totally by the way the fault of divine far the minute they started grooming her that's the age I feel like she stayed at emotionally she never got older than like 14 I mean you saw the initial pictures of her when she oh yeah she looks like a child she looks like she's 10 years old and I think you talked to somebody that I've been talking to from Canton who was also like she had a story about groom Ashley did you talk to her she told me she talked about the the one with Divine or the one she was with something with Divine like Divine groomed her from an earlier age this guys this guy's got a history of doing this yeah yeah thing well it's kind of like when you right it's when you get pulled over for drunk drive it's not the first time you're drinking a drive the idea of the birchmore that was kind of what they were trying to oh this like please like this is his wife's a Quincy cop too right yes yeah it's like yep of course yeah that's the thing that so when people say that's why like I say I try to avoid conspiracy by Nature I'm like they're just everywhere in this story everywhere so it's not that much of a conspiracy like it's like all it takes is a couple people like they they like how could this many people cover up that's joh ke Mur it's like it's really not it's just like two MA two two macbes two Alberts who are family they're going to protect each other and a friendly Detective from there on out it's just people trusting institutions that's all it is so your point with L like it's just people who actually didn't know right yeah just like yeah it's unbelievable like no that that's [ __ ] crazy they Brian Albert wouldn't have done that no he's a cop no [ __ ] way but it's kind of I keep going back to and I made Noti this because I was doing it the whole time with Fanning like Fanning operated only from the assumption that Sandra killed herself he never wanted to believe anything else so he never asked any questions that would lead him to sort of start asking more questions you know what I mean like he was like she killed herself he didn't want to go around this way he didn't want to go around that way if you stay in that straight Lane you can you can get there Ken Reed yeah Karen Reed did it from the beginning it's like [ __ ] it let's just say she did it she had a bunch of she had a bunch of drinks she went she did you know you it seems like historically like you rule out other suspects there's like a process of getting ruled out that didn't happen in either of these cases and which like Matthew Farwell never had to be ruled out as a suspect was never suspect never never I mean should have been he was the last one there literally the last one was the last one there he was the last one there she was pregnant with his kids yes and like and he had been he had been grooming her he'd been having sex with her she was a te she was underage he was having a baby the next day he having a baby the next day and she was pressuring him to give to like to your point from few minutes ago I want this I want this I want this and she was texting him 600 times a day yep so yeah like I would say does that mean he did it no is it worth I don't know now I understand he sat down these guys was interviewed but these interviews were ridiculous like they and then and then they stopped they just stopped going they're like nope we're not doing this anymore and it was over so it was over yeah I don't know so what are you do when this thing's over uh read a book yeah do that definitely uh read a book is a documentary talks yeah how do you think the Judge has done this so far in my case no not Your Case krie Case strong feelings about that oh she sucks too Auntie Bev another hack you know another Towny hack who doesn't want to you know she doesn't want to be the one to dismiss a murder indictment against somebody accused of killing a cop like nobody wants to be that judge that takes such a bold move so she's just another Towny hack yeah well most depressing as I thought it would be I think we've come to conclusion that nothing's going to happen it's very depressing it is but this is this is the Commonwealth in which we live like this is sort of the other thing is like it is stoen it is C but it's also Mass this is also a Massachusetts trial like it's just and it's just you know like she'll be like you said like great for Karen Reed she'll be found out guilty but like is it great from like big picture because they're just going to punt on it after this and like wonderful if she didn't do it if she's not guilty but how about the person then who did it right when is that and Sandra like where's the justice and honestly it would help if Sandra or Karen were were were not white that would be that would increase the chances I think of some justice getting done because it's like imagine if you will if Karen Reed a black woman imagine K re's black right and to be fair though to yes to be fair for in your for you though it's help did if Karen Reed were black or if she were not attractive I think the story wouldn't be as big right that's always to me no I think it would have if if Karen re was black right then and she a house full of white cops freame her for murder J the Reverend Jackson's down here tomorrow there's a lot more people understand that part but I don't think I don't think every coffee shop in Massachusetts is talking about it all day like I don't think people are gossiping about in dentist's office and like I I told you I had lunch the other day two old guys just talking about it and one person one guy was like she did it one guy was she didn't do it they were arguing about it whatever but like I do think and I think that's my season one case I think was Sandra like you know when it's like uh Amanda Knox or it's you know Italy girl yeah like it's a blonde girl or Casey Anthony yeah you know or Karen Reed was like a you I think I think the stories get bigger Aras huh Jody Aras jod Aras like I think they get I think they get I but I I get I do get your point I do think they're just GNA I think it's just going to be I I think like there'll be a story whatever a year from now somewhere saying yeah the FB no inconclusive on S exactly which stinks because we all we know what happened so like what what's I don't I don't get the I mean some people I guess the bottom line to your point is they brought Matt Farwell to trial right now what are they going to do they have a bunch of circumstantial evidence his lawyer would be like like this is an easy one yeah like like yeah right like you have no forensic evidence you know fingerprints you don't got you know what I mean DNA nothing nothing a bunch of old like some proof that they were from her text from her from yeah you have a motive okay great like okay A lot of people are mad at a girlfriend like they couldn't get him on [ __ ] and they know and the other people it's like unless they can unless they have an eyewitness in that house that it's going to turn on other people in the house then they they're not going to do anything and nobody's that's not going to happen because then they implicate themselves they all witness the murder and they they're all accessories to it after the fact and none of them want to go to jail this is how it works in like stoden and Canon is it like now their kids will be cops and their kids will be cops and like the same stuff will just happen forever AB I mean the Albert kids are all like on the list to become cops in town right you know Tristan Morris the Goon that accosted me in souy a few weeks ago Caitlyn Albert's fiance now like he was on like number five on the list to become a Canon cop of course he is of course he is and it just keeps going yep well anyway uh go follow follow T well where could we follow you give give us TB dailynews.com my website website Dr turtleboy on Twitter or turtleboy Live on YouTube all right go pay attention he's doing a great job on the Karen re case uh and you know once in a while he pokes in on S I'm sure he'll be reporting on Sandra as well if stuff yeah everybody's always talking about Sandra it's just you know you got to talk about Sandra I just have run out of things to talk about whatever [ __ ] know yeah we're Robo for the two all right well we'll talk to you sure soon thanks so much