Predicting the Packers Depth Chart

[Music] what is up everybody happy Monday welcome in an all new episode of the paday podcast I'm your host Andy Herman you can follow me on Twitter at Andy Herman NFL you can follow the podcast at paday podcast and of course you know the one and only Perry Goldstein you can find her on Twitter at Perry Goldstein she is back she's better than ever Perry how the heck have you been better than ever I'm great Andy I'm excited to record this episode with you yeah me too I think this is going to be a really fun one before we get there I know we usually do this at the end but I want you to tell the world all about Pax what she said and it's new home and everything like that so tell us all about it oh at the beginning okay well if uh you don't know me I'm actually one half of another podcast called packs what she said uh with lovely Maggie Looney who has her own day on the pack a day podcast um she is also part of the crew um and we host a once a week uh during the offseason twice a week during the regular season podcast about Green Bay Packers uh you can find us anywhere you get your podcasts and on YouTube and we recently um we like to call it came home to cheese head TV we started with cheese head TV we had a sabatical if you will um over at Odyssey we appreciated our two years with them it was very fun to be part of the Odyssey podcast Network um but we felt like it was right just made sense for us to come home to cheese head TV so we're back with the cheese head TV family and you can find everything we do um over on their website on their app um we're gonna have some really fun stuff with them this season um probably some live shows some other exciting things you already probably seen a Tyler har clipping us over on social media um so yeah just very happy to be back and uh grateful for Aon and Corey welcoming us back well congratul on that and all the continued success with PX which said for those of you listening watching make sure to check it out once a week in the offseason twice a week during the season they do an amazing job not only does Maggie have her own day on the Packa a podcast she also has her own day today as we're recording this it's her birthday so Maggie we'll uh we'll send this to you on Sunday so you get it right now but uh happy belated birthday uh for listening on Monday but she's the best uh Perry's the best so make sure to check them out uh again packs what she said wherever you get your favorite podcasts all right that brings us too our topic for the day and what we're going to be doing we're not going to be doing the 53 man roster projection or anything like that but what I want to do is try to put together kind of what this depth chart could theoretically look like when the season starts and that kind of comes with some unique roster battles that kind of inherently is going to be determining who gets some of these final spots on the roster but more importantly like how do you you know sort of put together the depth chart with some of these interesting positions that I think there is going to be a lot of competition at so we'll go one by one and some of these positions we might just say all right it's very clearly obvious this is how it's going to work is there any debate nope and then we'll move on to the next one but some of these I think are going to have some really interesting conversation and well maybe quarterback doesn't rank on the top of that list you do get a very interesting conversation at the number two quarterback so I think we're safe to say that Jordan love is gon to be number one but Perry we get that really interesting number two number three battle between both Michael Pratt and Shan Clifford we saw sea Clifford struggle a little bit in that mini camp where he threw what four interceptions in two days of mini camps uh by the way it's not like Sean Clifford got a lion share of the passing load to throw four interceptions he got you know after Jordan love got his and even taking you know Michael Pratt taking some away for the threes Clifford got left with only a smattering of plays and within that through four interceptions not great and meanwhile Michael Pratt well Matt laflor very much said he's drinking water through a fire hose pump the brakes like you're uh insinuating there on video uh he still looked pretty impressive through OTAs in mini camps so far so I know you didn't obviously get the opportunity to see them live but I know you've been following everything where do you come out on who wins this number two battle and who ultimately is the backup for Jordan love I think this is gonna come down to preseason yeah I I think this is going to be a battle of who looks better in preseason I if you would ask me going into this offseason um these offseason practices I would have said unequivocally Sean Clifford's qb2 Michael Pratt is qb3 he has so much to learn he's you know probably going to be the guy running um scout team Etc but with what I've been hearing and quite frankly you're there so it's a lot of what you are relaying and what the rest of the media team is relaying um it's really sounding like Michael Pratt's developing at a much more rapid Pace than I think anyone would have expected or at least is coming in much more ready than a seventh round pick would you would think would be right so I do think that if he looks really good in preseason he could very much be gunning for qb2 um this season now I tend to go with the thought process that the Packers would lean on someone just with experience at qb2 because you know God forbid knock on wood anything happens to qb1 I think regardless the Packers are screwed however um we got to see a little bit of Sean Clifford and he can kind of hold his own and I don't know if they feel that Michael Pratt could do that so I think the nod still goes that way for me but I think there's a lot to be determined still here I think that is beautifully said and I agree with I think everything that you just uh put out there a couple things I I think first of all um to your Point preseason is going to play a huge Factor here I think next what I've been impressed with with Pratt is almost I should say this way I'm even more impressed with Michael Pratt based on what Matt laflor said that he is drinking water through a fire hose right now I'm sure he's completely discombobulated in an entirely new offense he's being asked to do things that he's never been asked to do before and he's surviving and that like that you can tell like that's what he's doing right like he's just but he's you can see the gamer in him like he's just going out there and figuring it out on the Fly and finding ways to get things done even though he doesn't have anywhere near the grasp of the offense that you would think at some point he will I love the leadership I love just some of the intangible stuff that he's already shown but as Matt laflor reiterated pretty clearly he's still a long ways away from even understanding Things From A playbook standpoint and that's going to be a pretty hefty prerequisite to being the backup quarterback for Jordan love on game days I think my final answer here and not again not knowing what's going to happen in preseason is I could see a world where Sean Clifford is your number two quarterback your backup on game days if something happens to Jordan you're going to want somebody that has a little bit more experience in the offense that can get the plays in that can do everything that's needed and if it's a if Jordan has a two or three four game absence that it's Sean Clifford in that situation where you can give him the opportunity can you go two and two in those four games something like that but if it were something worse and we don't obviously want to speak that into existence if it's like a 14 game absence or something do you not maybe play the guy that has more of an upside and maybe you let that just natural ability and that gamer mentality kind of come out a little bit more and see maybe what he has during the course of that process but I would lean right now going into I think it's Sean Clifford as the number two and I think you maybe just let him come in and do what he can do knowing this offense a little bit better in year two yeah and let's hope the latter just does never happens agreed we're we're on the same page there uh let's move to to running back this is another interesting one at that number two line we clearly know Josh Jacobs is going to be your starter he's going to be as much of a Bellow as there still is in the NFL he's going to be that guy um but number two becomes very very interesting you've got the young upstart Marshon Lloyd who's looked fantastic in OTAs and many camps Sans pads long way to go and then you've got the AJ Dylan who is back for year five on a interesting veteran contract um one-year deal very minim signing bonus but clearly knows the offense is come in in phenomenal shape is you know familiar with how to pass protect for Jordan love which is going to be a key part not really turnover prone and can give them that running back that kind of gets better through the course of the year and you know can be a little bit dangerous more come November December January so I'll ask you where again do you come out on this number two running back battle knowing that again it is still very early at this point this is tough um I'm actually leaning Marsh on Lloyd I'm really I'm really really high on this kid I I just feel like he is and you've seen him in practice and I you want to temper your expectations on a rookie but I feel like he's got this really fun like explo explosivity to him that AJ Dylan just doesn't have and there's like a level to his game where you get him in the open field and there's really no catching him and I think as a compliment to Josh Jacobs is going to be really fun now granted there's things that he's going to need to have to do that I don't know that he can do yet like pass Pro right like the blocking that they ask running backs to do those are non-starter prerequisites to being any a running back period in a Matt lefur offense but especially rb2 so that's my caveat there and we already know that AJ Dylan can do those things but I think AJ like really hurt himself with his play last season and now he's contending with a Josh Jacobs and a very exciting young talent and I have a hard time seeing him just catching up and I say that like with a very heavy heart because I want him to and I want you know and I really want to see him um get back to the you know rookie season AJ Dylan that we got to see but um I don't know I think he's going to be very situational and we're going to see Marshon Lloyd much more often in the back field I think there's been a bit of a transition I talked about a few years ago clearly they had Devonte Adams as a playmaker but um Green Bay kind of had too many glue guys and not enough Playmakers you had you know guys like alen Lazard who's kind of that he can be a but he's not like a big time playmaker and youve got guys like Mercedes Lewis who's a phenomenal blocker love Mercedes to death but very clearly not a playmaker Robert tunyan at that point wasn't really a playmaker kind of more of a glue guy like you just had all these guys um that were you know guys that can help you and guys that can maybe set up some other guys for success and they're not bad players by any means but they weren't the guy that you could get the ball in their hands and take at the distance at any given moment and I think we've really seen a swing and the 49ers and the Dolphins have been really the two teams in my opinion that have really swung this in an aggressive way where you got to have guys everywhere on the field that you can get the ball in their hands and they can make plays all the time like no matter who you're getting the ball to they are dangerous and I think Miami took it to an even you know higher level last year with some of the stuff they're doing with all their speed on offense and I just think Green Bay has made this swing as well where you don't see the Mercedes Lewis you don't you you kind of have an alen Lazard type and a Malik Keith but he's going to be more of a bit player um you've kind have got a Ben Sims but again he's going to be more of a bit player this is going to be Tucker Craft on the field Luke Musgrave on the field Watson Reed Wicks Melton dos um Josh Jacobs Marshon Lloyd you're gonna have Playmakers on the field everywhere at all times all at once and it's going to be fun and that's what I think is going to push Marshon Lloyd over the edge here is there going to be a role for Dylan sure is there going to be a role for a Ben Sims yes will there be a role for mik Keith probably but this is a playmaking league you got to have Playmakers marshan lyd's the playmaker he gets the KN at number two yeah totally I completely agree I I think you make a really nice point that those guys used to be the features of the offense and those types of players are no longer the features they just come in and spot Duty when necessary um and unfortunately if that's who you are as a player you're going to lose out on playing time and you're going to find yourself falling on the depth chart and the thing I like about this is it doesn't mean like there are going to be plays where Tucker craft has to be that glue guy which is great he can do that but he's a playmaker too and there's going to be times where guys like Christian Watson or Bo Melton these guys who are also very good blockers um are going to have to be the glue guy and they can do that but they also can be Playmakers so I just think this works out at a much higher level and I think it's going to make the offense that much more explosive just makes me so excited especially for what I've seen already for marshan Lloyd let's go to wide receiver probably not as much of a discussion here um more of just I don't even know if we want to rank Perry like how you would kind of put these in a Target like I think it's probably clear if you're if you're going to keep kind of six receivers I think it's probably clear Malik Keith is your six I think it's probably mostly clear although I do think he has a role that Bo Melton is kind of your five and then I think you have some version of Watson Reed dobs and Wix that are going to get the pr you know priority and primary snaps as you're one through four with Reed getting a ton in the slot you know Watson and dos probably a ton on the outside Wicks working a little bit of everywhere with a smattering of Melton and maybe some of those glue guy plays from Malik Keith every here you know every now and again if he gets active on game day as a number six wide receiver or if there's injuries elsewhere yeah I yes I think you said it really nicely I they don't have a one we're not going to get into that not the conversation here um I think the question really is just who they carry over and what happens to kind of The Fringe roster guys and again this isn't a 53 man roster prediction show but just from like a depth perspective um there's the clear and obvious guys who are going to take the bulk of the snaps and it's Watson dobs Reed Wicks um I think Bo Melton and Malik keath have made the case for themselves that they deserve to also be carried onto the roster and like have their roles carved out for them again um but the drop off is very clear so if you are thinking main characters and secondary characters in the wide receiver room I think that's more of how I would bucket it um and then you know you'll see what happens with the samori Tes and the Grant dubes and and things like that um so maybe that's main character energy and second character energy I love main character energy if I can get second character energy nerdy for a moment because that's what I do I am sort of intrigued like let's say Duos and T get cut let's in this you know scenario we talked about the six guys and then that would kind of leave Duos and T on the on the outside looking in um assuming they don't get claimed somewhere that would be practice squad eligible in Green Bay I think if I were the agent for either Grant to Bose or Sor Tay I think I would say we got to get you out of Green Bay they have six super young super talented wide receivers and the only you're going to see the field is through injury and even then it might be temporarily like let's get you to some other team that has the ability to or maybe just doesn't have the young talented wide receiver core that Green Bay does the only reason I bring that up is usually Green Bay has been in this situation where they've even had like one or two guys in the practice squad that at any given moment you could call up and be ready to go if you would lose a couple of those guys like I think Julian Hicks Demetri Stanley one of those guys could be a practice squad guy but it's not necessarily somebody you feel super like you calling up and putting on the field in any significant way does it matter a ton in you know June 17th 2024 no but just kind of one of those interesting things I'll be keeping an eye on when we start doing practice squad signings at the end of um you know end of cutdown days which of course I'm already nerding out about so you wouldn't expect anything else Perry from me than than exactly that two months early practice squad signings from Andy Herman that's going to be the next episode let's predict the 16 man like everyone else is going to be doing 53 man roster prediction predicting we're going to be doing who's going to make the 16-man practice squad and it's going to be the most amazing thing ever we're going to do a 16 man practice squad draft and I'm just kidding all right uh tight end is easy I I think you've got Tucker craft and Luke Musgrave as a combined onew they're both gonna see the field a ton they're both gonna rotate in and out depending on what type of play call is being you know called On Any Given play I I think Ben Sims is your three you've got Tyler Davis as a fringe guy that maybe makes it as a four maybe doesn't but I think that's probably just the end of the conversation right there unless you feel differently on anything I'm surprised you feel that way about Tyler Davis do you feel that way because he's working back from injury or just simply because his role to you as more of a special teamer in which way that you feel like you think you will make it or maybe wouldn't make it that you find him more of a f as a fringe guy I think so I think in the NFL when you've already started to get some wear and tear in your body you've had an ACL or things like that you're not necessarily you haven't shown that you have a a high level ability meaning like Tyler Davis's ceiling is probably number three tight end with special teams ability and core special teamer and it probably gets him maybe two or three more years in the league for the most part what NFL GMS are thinking with that sort of stuff and again clearly you need some guys that can do exactly what I just mentioned you need those type of players but you're trying to put people on your roster that are are are going to show some upside or like have that upside to develop into starting caliber players or are going to be maybe a little bit more I think Ben Sims is is the number three clearly because I think he could be a number two I think even he could evolve into something even better than that he might not get ever get the opportunity because of craft and Musgrave on the roster but I'm pretty high on Ben Sims um I do and I think the other thing why I talk about Tyler Davis that way is you're gonna end up with some interesting situations where if you want to keep a third quarterback because you want to keep Clifford and Pratt that's going to limit a roster spot if you want to keep a tenth offensive lineman which I could easily see them doing that's going to limit it if they wanted to if they like if Duo is um for instance has an amazing preseason in Camp and they want to keep a seventh wide receiver because they don't want to lose that guy that could limit a spot like there's just so many of those different ways Bretton Cox is a fifth Edge rusher we could go on and on but those things will complicate the roster math to the point where a guy like Tyler Davis could be a fringe guy simply because of just numbers yeah totally um it's unfortunate when you get an injury like that and you're starting to develop and they're starting to to use you a little bit more in the offense when you are like clearly proving yourself on special teams right because that's such a nice way for a player like Tyler Davis to latch onto a roster and he was the most used special teamer on the Packers right um and then an injury can kind of derail you and a guy like Ben Sims comes in and is is playing really well in that tight end three role and just totally jumps over you um but as far as tight end one2 I agree with you they're interchangeable in my mind I think Luke musra probably gets the nod a little bit at tight end one simply because he's more of that pass catching if you really want to get into like the weeds of it all but they're a pair and I think especially in a mat lafl offense in that he loves his two tight end sets and they're both going to be on the field I'm imagining together a lot um it doesn't really matter who's one or two my hot take recently is I actually think cra is the better tight end of the two I think he is slightly tend one um and then Musgrave is T but it's not like really because again they're both going to be on the field so much and they're going to be interchangeable but I actually think I think what I saw at a craft in the second half of last year I don't think it gets talked about quite enough he was fantastic as a true starting tight end when musra was out like doing everything and what he did from going from a guy in training camp in in OTAs where you could just tell like his mind was swimming at an unbelievable Pace like as a blocker you could tell he was really going through it and coming from like like a small school but a little bit of a smaller school um that the transition was harsh and then you know he really didn't get like even early on you go watch like it was Musgrave and even Ben Sims was getting some snaps ahead of Tucker craft just because he was a better blocker at that point and then by the time Musgrave goes out and craft takes over and then he just puts together a phenomenal second half of the year just like really good blocker really good pass catcher we saw some ridiculous stuff run after the catch where he's hurdling over people and making people like I don't know I'm a believer I'm a big craft believer I think uh I think he ultimately could end up being actually the better tight end of the two which is saying something because we all know what Musgrave is is capable of and he could be easily be I think Musgrave can be a top 15 top tight end in the league sincerely and I'm still saying I think craft can be better than that hey you're talking to a double Tucker craft uh own owner in Dynasty fantasy here so I'm with you on the Tucker craft hype um 100% especially that you know that tiptoe on the sideline um gorgeous yeah big fan do do you have him in our league yeah I might have to send a trade proposal through I'm not giving him up Sor all right well then I will not but that might be some conversation we need to have at another time let's go through offensive line really quick I think this is an interesting one maybe not really quick we'll see but clearly we got to figure out the starting rotation and then who that kind of number six guy is because I think there's six guys ultimately Elton Rasheed Walker Josh Meers Jordan Morgan Zack Tom and Shan Ryan like I think the starting five is going to come from that six and I think the six guy will be who's ever remaining and then you got to kind of get to where the depth Falls after that so what I kind of want to focus on is not maybe the last two rosters guys or things like that but who's your starting five who's ends up being that six guy and then who are your two other guys that are kind of active for game days if you had to again decide very early today oh my God this one like keeps me up at night I can't imagine what the Packers are doing right now um so for me and I would love your thoughts on this but for me like when I think about offensive line everything stems from left tackle right you start with left tackle and you and you build you build from there and this is interesting for you only because I agree with you but I'm interested to see what you're where you're gonna go with this because all right let me even pause you before before you get to finish because then I would say all right if you want to build it from there do you start Zack Tom at left tackle and start building him there or like so now I'm very intrigued why would I put Zack Tom at left tackle because you just said it's the most important spot on the offensive line and you start building from there so would you not want one of your best offensive tackles or best offens defensive lineman at that spot but I also want to keep the guys who are excellent at what they do at the spots that they are exent I'm with you I'm with you all right we're good you know so there's there's like two kind of variables that you're contending with but the reason that I started left tackle obviously is quarterback's Blind Side and I think Rasheed Walker did a really nice job last season and I think he got better over the course of the season two so it's like do you want to hinder a guy's development when he's pretty clearly on the up and allow your first round pick to sit and develop or do you want to play your first round pick where you think that he's best that is like the ultimate question if you're building out of left tackle I don't know either way they're both making they're both going to be on the roster um let's just go with we start the season with Rasheed Walker okay um because that's what I feel like they're going to do um Elton stays at left guard obviously again keep your guys who are excellent in what they do where they're excellent where they do it you're probably starting the season with Josh at Center unless somebody blows you out of the water in preseason but I just don't know if I see that happening quite yet at least I haven't heard anything Right Guard continues to be a question mark um but right now Shawn Ryan ultimately has the nod but there are plenty of people who are contending for that spot and I'm fully on like to keep Zack Tom at where he's excellent at at right tackle um but I can see a Jacob monk like coming for the Right Guard spot I don't know this it this gives me like Aida it does because also what if Jordan Morgan kicks out to right tackle and you move Zack Tom into Center and then you have your Rasheed Walker Elton Zack Tom Shawn Ryan Jordan Morgan I mean the crazy thing is if we go position by position like Rasheed Walker could start at left tackle Elton Jenkins could start at left tackle Jordan Morgan could start at left tackle Zack Tom could start at left tackle you could even put an Andre Dillard there you've got five guys who could go left tackle like left guard could be Elton jins could be Josh well not Josh Elon Jenkins Jordan Morgan Zack Tom could go there Shawn Ryan could go there um maybe even a Jacob monk you probably got five guys who could go left guard um Center could be Myers Jenkins Zack Tom Jacob monk Right Guard could be Morgan Jenkins uh Zack Tom sea Ryan Jacob monk five like you've got five different guys right tackle week could do the exact same thing you have five guys at least that could go at any single one of these spots and now it's trying to find the right combination to make it perfect it's never going to be perfect obviously but you're trying to so I've I've been playing with a couple things in my mind I was leaning one way but I'm just kind of seeing where Jordan's at I think he's going to need a little bit of time I think you take it easy on him I'm more apt at this point to start the way you basically ended the year and stick exactly like you said with Rasheed at left tackle Jenkins at left guard Myers at Center Shawn Ryan at Right Guard and Zack Tom at right tackle and maybe with Jordan maybe you put him in a couple series at Right Guard for um for Shawn Ryan see what he does see how he performs continue to put that pressure on um on Shawn Ryan maybe you use him as that sixth offensive lineman for a handful of plays here and there just to get him some time on the field like you could do that in some ways maybe you put him in a a couple you know series for Rasheed Walker at left tackle you know if you if if rasheed's struggling or something like that I think you can do some things like that as time goes on but I'm more apt to kind of keep it as is um the other thing that I toyed with a little bit if if Green Bay was really wanting to get Jordan on the field and you know they're going to want to try to get their first round pick on there sooner rather than later I kind of want to stop trying to see him as much on the right side he's played the left side his entire career I kind of want to just keep him on the left now if you want to kind of cross train him between guard and left tackle I'm cool with that I wholeheartedly believe that Elton is going to be just as great at Right Guard as he is at left guard and I will also say that it intrigues me to put together a right side of the offensive line that has Zack Tom and Elton Jenkins next to each other where if I need a run play on Third and one and I can run behind Zack Tom and Elton Jenkins I'm gonna feel pretty freaking good about running Josh Jacobs on that side if I want to go in that direction um so I wouldn't hate Rasheed Walker at left tackle Jordan Morgan at left guard Myers at Center Jenkins at Right Guard and Rasheed W or sorry Zack tomt right tackle with Shawn Ryan kind of being the odd guy out if they wanted to get Morgan on the field but I would love to keep that guy on the left side keep him a little bit more comfortable not have if you're going to already do the tackle guard thing let's not do tackle guard and left side right side and have just his mind completely swirling let's try to keep him on one side and then if you do keep him at that left spot and all of a sudden rasheed's struggling or you want to kick him outside the left tackle or Rasheed gets hurt at least now he just moves one spot to his left and can stay on his left side and again doesn't have to do a whole ton of movement I kind of want my youngest guy to not have to do too much thinking at this point in his career that'd be the other thing but I I'm more leaning towards keep the same five guys out there and then put Morgan in when you figure out whatever injury happens that you need to put him in for yeah okay two things one I do agree that in this instance at least to start the season I think the simplest answer is actually the right answer like it wasn't broke at the end of the season I don't know if there's a reason to fix it at least to start um so I'm with you my question to the mooving around is did we not am I misremembering or did we not see Elton struggle a little bit when they moved him over to the right side yes or do we think that was injury related a couple things one he did extremely uh struggled but it two things one it was at right tackle not at Right Guard when he's played at Right Guard in the past he's been totally good he's been good and fine um the other thing is it was immediately following his ACL injury so like he literally came back from the ACL injury they put him at right tackle which he had not played I don't think before that point at least in the NFL I could be misremembering on that but they played him at right tackle so now he's going from guard to tackle and he's going from the left side to the right side and he's coming off the ACL injury and there were even times like he played for like I want to say five six weeks and then they had to shut him down for a week because he was actually like struggling with it a little bit so like he was not 100% he looked nothing like Elton so if you were telling me that I had to move Elton to right tackle I would be like no way I'm good I'm to like I don't want to see that anywhere in the interior left guard Center Right Guard I totally feel Elton will just completely you know be himself and I don't have any real major concern there yeah okay fair I couldn't remember if it was guard or tackle yep where does Andre Dillard factor into this interesting thing here with Dillard is I think first of all your six guy on the bench with the the lineup That we said W with Walker Jenkins Meyers uh Shawn Ryan and Zack Tom one through five I think in that case Jordan Morgan's your first guy off the bench so whoever goes out if it's a left tackle it's probably just Morgan If It's Right Guard it's probably just Morgan right tackle Morgan Etc I think he's your first guy um and then I think Andre Dillard and I'm gonna say Jacob monk are probably your next two guys off the bench at that point where you probably have Dillard be kind of number seven and then I think Jacob monk is number eight is kind of That Swing interior guy who can play left guard Center Right Guard and Dillard can be your backup left tackle right tackle so you're basically thinking of it this way if anyone goes down it's Morgan and then after that if a tackle goes down it's Dillard and if a guarder center goes down it's Jacob monk so you've kind of got everything covered in every way where you don't have to do a ton of rotating around um just based on one injury you kind of have the guys that can go in based on what position they play best yep that's how I saw it as well I mean especially like a Dillard is just a tackle and I think it's good to just have a swing tackle anyway and then Jacob monk was drafted as an interior guy and for his development it doesn't make sense especially with Andre Dillard on the roster if anyone were to go down at either of the tackle positions to put Jacob monk in that position no totally agreed yeah so I think I think we're kind of on the same page I think you got to figure out that first you know who's the last starter and who's that number six guy I think that's going to be a really interesting decision and I know it gives you anxiety but um I think that's going to be the really kind of fun thing to keep an eye on this offseason it's just like they do such a phenomenal job Drafting and developing offensive lineman they have good problems here like you said you could look at every position and name three to five guys on the roster who could play each of the five positions on the offensive line so you're kind of playing Tetris with fitting them in the right way right um good problems but I don't envy them um because at the end of the day you're protecting the dude who you're about to pay Mega Millions too um and you gotta find youve got to find the right five to do it I think the other cool thing here too that gives me less anxiety is you do have options and you know what it might take a handful of weeks or maybe 10 weeks or 12 weeks to figure out what the best five is that's okay you can kind of experiment with some things you can get by they've got starting you know caliber players at all spots and now you can just kind of play with it through the course of the season to really find what group of five works best in the right order totally and like they'll do a rotation they they're not afraid to do that yeah no not at all not at all which excites me too I think it'll bring competition and I think hopefully sooner rather than later they will find the best five that they can put out there I think defense for the most part is actually going to end up being a lot easier than the offense let's start on the edge I think fairly self-explanatory Gary and Smith are your starters lv's probably your next guy up that you want to get as many snaps as you can to help him develop and egari is your four and then you get into the probably like Brent and Cox conversation as your five but I think that's just kind of I think it's kind of easy literally can kind of rank them Gary Smith LVN and egbar number five probably brenon Cox yeah I don't have any notes there to the contrary and I think kind of similarly at defensive tackle where you've got Kenny and I think you could see starters where it's it's Clark and Slayton on early down still to kind of get your better run Defender guys on on early and obvious run plays or more likely run plays but I think it's still like Kenny and Slayton are going to be your big guys Devonte Wyatt and um Carl Brooks are going to be more pass rush oriented but are going to play more of that three technique and get up field and then Colby wooden rotates in as your number five and probably rotates in a little bit as a number five defensive end on maybe some game day situations as well but again I think it kind of you're going to have your you know probably Wyatt slon and and I don't even I think the first four guys kind of rotate in and then um you've kind of got maybe wooden as your five yep it'll just depend on what look they want and probably Clark is your clear number one and then a little bit more rotational after that yep absolutely all right offall linebacker a little bit more interesting you've got the additions of edrian Cooper and Tyron Hopper Isaiah McDuffy comes back familiar with the defense you've got Quay Walker obviously and then I think you know Wilson seen some time in the 4-3 we'll see if that continues but I think that the conversation here is who are your three linebackers in the 4-3 who are your two in the nickel and then who's your one in the dime uh I think to start the season it's Quay Cooper McDuffy okay um I think you're G to see a lot of quay and Cooper as a pair yep um the dime is a good question the dime is a really good question because I feel like Cooper's probably gonna end up being that dude um you've seen him more in practice than I have but from what I've just read about his explosiveness and to to the ball that feels they're not going to play a ton of dime so this is going to be like very rarely so it doesn't matter but to me the the main the main starters because their base is nickel is Quay and Cooper Isaiah McDuffy is gonna get pulled in um as your kind of like next guy up they love him he obviously has the BC connection to um I think he played really nice in his like rotational spot Duty also last season when asked then Tyrone Hopper will have a role as a four as the four um to me Eric Wilson is definitely more of your everyone else is more of your special team yeah I can't see anyone else really playing meaningful snaps on defense I think I think base is going to be what you mentioned to start where it's McDuffy Quay and Cooper but I think Hopper's going to push McDuffy sooner rather than later for that third linebacker spot and think by maybe Midway through the year if not sooner we're starting to see Hopper get more of those snaps I think it's going to be Quay and Cooper as your nickel and then I think Quay starts as dime but again whether it's you know mid year this year end of this year maybe by early next year at the latest I think Cooper is gonna take that at some point I really do I think he's that special yeah I just I there's something about I haven't seen him play yet but just something the way about the way I hear he plays he fits that he just he fits that perfectly but again it's it's not going to be often they're not going to play a ton of dime this isn't Mike petton uh so they're not gonna ask him to do that much but I'm excited to see the way him and Quay pair together when they're playing base let's hit safety quick and then we'll come back and finish kind of with Corner because I think that's maybe a little bit more of an interesting conversation to end on McKenna's your one I think Bard gets your two I think Evan Williams ends is your three I am actually going to say Anthony Johnson Jr finishes kind of as your four oladapo as kind of a five and then again we talked about some of those roster decisions does a Zay Anderson or a Benny sap get a sixth based on special teams prowess that'll be another kind of interesting conversation but um I think really here the conversation is between who's your four and five between Anthony Johnson Jr and Katan oladapo and we haven't seen any oladapo yet so it's near impossible to say I was gonna say it's that's a hard conversation to have right now and he's been hurt for every practice y kind of unfair to knock him at the moment he's doing terrible he's doing absolutely awful hasn't made a single play yet and in any of the practices get out of the boot bro um I'm curious what about Evan Williams has made you put him at three I just think he has a higher upside obviously they traded up for him in the fourth round um I I think Anthony Johnson Jr's done a fine job in that role in OTAs in mini camp so far but I just think I think the verse a ility of an Evan Williams is going to be so intriguing to them with what they can do on the field and you get some three safety looks if they want to do that with Williams and Bullard and McKenna three guys that can do a little bit of everything and you could rotate one of those guys down into the slot you could rotate both into the slot you could put two sing or you know two guys High you could like you could just do anything and everything with those three guys in the field I don't necessarily feel the same way about Anthony Johnson Jr they've said over and over and over how they want these safeties to be able to do everything be versatile not basically have a tell when any of those guys are on the field or in a certain position I think Bullard Williams and mcken are going to give them that I think that's what gives me a nod in that direction nice okay yeah I I agree with you with mcken Bullard being one to and of course and to your point I think that's clearly going to be a competition I think even Bullard is gonna have to continue to um fight for that number two even though I think he he'll win it um I think there's going to be really fun competition for those spots and I'm I'm here for it I'm excited for it it's going to be fun let's finish here with corner I think jer's clearly your one I think that probably goes without saying you then have the battle for number two between Valentine and Stokes I still think Nixon is your primary slot guy although I do think Bullard or maybe a Williams could do a little bit of that from time to time but I think Nixon kind of wins that that slot job um I think Cory Balentine ends as your five and kin King assuming he makes the team which I think he will ends as your six um and then the big question is just Stokes your [Music] Valentine this one still stumps me I think it stumps the Packers too to be honest yeah because we don't know I mean they're so high on Stokes this one is going to be when the pads come on this is going to be this that this gets answered when the pads come on I think before preseason season we'll know um I don't know if you agree with that or not but I can't see I I can't see a lot these guys playing a ton of snaps in preseason quite frankly um and I think we'll know where Stokes is really at when the pads come on I still give the nod to Valentine just the way that he played last season and this style of Defense with Jeff Halley I think it's going to me it's going to be right up his alley and like the development that he's going to take but we've talked about it on this show a ton where I don't know if necessarily like a CB2 is really going to exist maybe it was on our show when you were on pack what she said but we had a really great discussion about like Jeff Halley mixing in Personnel when it feels right and it not necessarily always sticking with like okay you were on the boundary and you were on this boundary and now you are in the slot and that is where you stay right so it might even be like this a similar conversation the way we talk about the wide receivers right where these are the guys that you're going to see on the field they're going to get the bulk of the snaps maybe one day one game I should say it'll be mostly Valentine because he matches up better with their wide receivers or maybe it'll be Stokes maybe they move jaw in the slot right and we see all three of those guys on the field um I like that better um again I think it's like your your main character energy and your secondary character energy here with with Jer Stokes Valentine Nixon being like the very clear starters I know that's four corners and Perry they don't play Four Corners that doesn't make sense um but that's just I think what this defense is going to call for uh and then you'll get Cory Ballentine and and King and I think watch for kin King could be a fun one I think watch for kin King yeah I I you know from what we hear he he could be a steal in this draft um but for now I think it's those four and like yeah jaw's the one but I think the rest of it similar to wide receivers I don't know if it necessarily matters I think Stokes Valentine is the most fun roster battle that will take place in training camp I think that will go down to the end I think it's going to take preseason and training camp to get through it and even like you said I think there could be differences in different games with different matchups that they could go back and forth or maybe play in certain situations um based on what they're better at like I I could see a variety of things happening here o Stokes just because that's what it's been so far and I know they've only had two practices where jaw was there and you know they had a number two particular job or like role and that was Stokes on both of those days every other day jaw wasn't there so it was Stokes and Valentine both out there but um I'll just go with that for now until they prove differently but I'm a big valentine guy I'm not quite as much a Stokes guy but I would I just hope both of them ball out and play to the level that they're capable of because that takes the the defense on a totally different level than what it's been at with with those guys playing at that level and I'm I'd be totally here for it so I I just want to see this Corner Room play to their to their capabilities I don't think we've seen that in a while and I'm hoping in this new defense we do this year yeah I think we will sign me up yeah sign me up Harry Goldstein last last Quick one who's your punt returner punt returner Jaden Reed yeah I I I think so too I think so too that I mean I think with Nixon getting so many kick returns in this new kick return style plus being the nickel guy I think you need to start taking some things off of his plate he's a little bit more of an adventure at punt returner than he is at kick returner he doesn't always catch it clean like there's been literally times yes he's literally caught it over his head he double catches sometimes he had that bad muff a season to go that cost Green Bay um I think there's times where you use him where you need a spark and you just say screw it we're going to take the risk and put him back there but I think just the guy that's a little bit more safe can also give you that boost and is just really good is Jaden Reed I don't know that there's anyone else really too like I guess you could maybe try like I know I think Evan Williams has done a little bit of it like there's probably some guys that could try but I don't know give me Jaden Reed yeah he did it very successfully so again and he's got the speed so I don't want to see any more scary kesan Nixon catches out there it'd be nice if I don't even know like there's not a it'd be nice if bow Melton could do it like a bow Melton where like because like Jaden Reed I really don't want to see Jaden Reed get hurt on a punt return like I don't I don't even think Bo Melton's ever been back there so I'm not saying that that's going to happen but like somebody that's like your number five wide receiver that you're to get more touches to anyway that like if he did get hurt it would be a huge bummer but wouldn't be catastrophic to the offense like somebody that is also safe catching the ball like that would be kind of an ideal situation and maybe it is like if Evan Williams can show he can do it like really well like maybe that could be somebody where you know you're not so worried about it but I I think I still lean Jaden Reed yeah well that was like didn't jaw return kicks in college and he HTS yeah and when he got to the NFL we were all like o and they're like yeah he's not doing that no way yeah there Comes A Time with some of these players where you're just like yeah they're not they're not going to do that and I think you know at some point you probably get there with Jaden Reed I don't know if it's right away he's still young enough maybe you feel comfortable with him doing I mean cob did it for forever so like you can get away with that but we'll see I think it's Jaden Reed I'm with you all right Perry I think that does it any final thoughts on our our depth chart breakdown anything that you're dying to close on no I think uh there's always going to be surprises when we hit the 53 y so we'll look out for those obviously some really exciting roster battles coming up um I hope Packers figure out their offensive line don't keep me up at night um but yeah we're getting we're getting to it everything's shaping up figure out offensive line figure out who your kicker is and then uh we should be in pretty good shape watching The Green Bay Packers this year Perry you are phenomenal always appreciate you a ton now we over it at the beginning but tell everyone where we can find all your work oh yes uh just follow me on Twitter or follow the podcast at pwi she said podcasts Twitter YouTube all everywhere you can find your podcasts uh you can find us of course you can find her at Perry Goldstein you can find me at Andy Herman NFL you can follow this podcast at paday podcast that's going to do it for Perry and I today but until next time and as always go Pac go go P go