Javier Báez returns and Héctor Neris leaves as the Cubs go in a different direction

we may never see something like that ever again or maybe like in 20 years just it's just so rare to find welcome into Northside territory foul territory Network's Cubs podcast I'm sahad Sharma with my co-host Patrick Mooney we are your Cubs beat writers at the athletic Patrick last night we saw the return of Javier bz to the Chicago or to Wrigley Field I should say and uh it was not the jav we have grown accustomed to I I mean we all know that we've all seen jav Bas play recently seen the highlights at minimum on Twitter low lights if you want to call them that um first of all I just want to start with what hobby meant to the Cubs before we get to how he looked on on Tuesday night jav was a joy to watch uh one of those players that makes the Kid come out and you and uh kind of just giggle with uh Joy right because the things he pulled off on the field were amazing even was it 2020 or 2021 the the Pirates play uh I know we weren't on the road for that but uh what whenever it was whether it was 20 or 21 it it was one of those Seasons where we weren't traveling as much and and he just pulled off that insane play where uh believe Wilson conteras scored from third and and he sh it was a ground ball to like first base he should have been out easily and he just because he's hobby bayas he he made that that player I believe it was Will Craig his brain kind of falter uh and it was in 21 you're right yeah uh and that that poor guy will Craig who will forever be known for that play uh just in a just you know the type of play like what is happening how why would a player do that it's because jav bayas makes your brain short circuit uh and and know the the home run against San Francisco just his his entire playoff run I I always Envision him like uh catching his gum in midair in The Dugout and then pointing to the camera in in I believe that was 16 the 16 play that 16 playoff run was just like this guy's a showman this guy steps up in the biggest moments like this is cool to watch and and that's how you know we we can touch on what happened Tuesday night but that's how I I choose to remember jav bz yeah I think it was one of those weird things where you and I chatted before the game you know doing our kind of coverage plan and jav's old news uh I feel like we had written so much on the Elmo phenomenon that and prob Cody in Detroit has written a lot about his decline in Detroit uh and that it been you know three years since he got traded that it was just kind of like what are we doing here but it also felt like we had to address it somewhere right like it had like his return just had to write and our place at the athletic our bosses are really good at not doing stuff out of like obligation or iash uh but it was just this weird kind of you know the tigers are not good Javi is not playing well the Cubs are not exactly killing it uh Dansby has been an adequate replacement but not like the guy or the man this year I mean jav would probably like a third string Short Stop on the Cubs right now behind Nico I'd imagine yeah you know it's just seeing his numbers is it's disoriented just think of a guy who look we all know he had gone through these extremes these highs and lows um but you would think that his natural athleticism his instincts would give him a little more leeway here and that he could age maybe a little more gracefully I mean you think about the guys he's compared to over time like Roberto Alamar you know Gary Sheffield Manny Ramirez that that there would just be more there to to work with and you know it was classic Javi in the sense of he was supposed to meet with the media right when the clubhouse opened and then it was kind of pushed back to BP but he did sit for uh I think it was about 15 20 minutes and answered a bunch of questions and no he's not someone who uh has any regrets I mean he's got $140 million reasons to be pretty happy with his decision uh got to give him credit I would say for not being bitter about how his contract extension talks were derailed by the pandemic uh I think there was very much um momentum on on both sides there to get something done it was right in that kind of deal Zone in spring training there of you know early March and you could figure there could probably be a couple more back and forths to get something wrapped up before opening day 20120 obviously the world changed uh baseball economics shifted did and you know the Cubs kind of played it out and I thought Jed Hoyer said it well of you know there are guys who are in the Hall of Fame who have statues outside Wrigley Field but taking together that group meaning Javi Anthony Rizzo Chris Bryant uh have every bit the same impact if not more uh on on the city of Chicago and and the Cubs you know greatest moment in uh franchise history so he went 0 for four with four strikeouts yesterday right and that's that's not that's not good obviously I I'm just I just happen to look at these numbers this morning I don't want to bury the dude but he swung at zero pitches in the zone zero he swung nine times swung and missed eight times swung at eight sweepers swung and missed seven times at those fouled the ball off once that's his only that's the only time he made contact it like he didn't see a pitch in the zone like or he didn't swing at a pitch in the zone just he's not wow it's just it was one of those things where like I looked at the reporter next to me at one of the swings and I just was like we just kind of like looked at each other and shook our heads like what what has happened and it uh yeah it it wasn't fun to watch him you know uh swing like that and look like that it was one of those returns where it was nice that he got his he got the standing ovations like I'm glad he had all those moments but watching him play was rough I will say the defense is still there right like there was or at least the arm um he there was a play where like it was a simple play right but like it looked like Bellinger was gonna beat out an infield hit uh and and jav's arm just made sure like it yeah easy out you know he like fired it like I saw him field it and I was like is Bellinger gonna beat this out and and he just fired it to first because his arm still a cannon so there's that but it yeah it was it was tough to watch him him play just because of who he was uh in this city uh but that's the reality of baseball I guess and and he was someone that Scouts would say this of like it could go quickly with him he never he never developed that like patience at the plate or like a really great pitch recognition it was uh was kind of just a you know concentrated you know four or five years of of special play and and it and it disappeared and it looks like it's gone now but um yeah I don't want to dwell on on ripping him like it doesn't feel like it's a worthwhile Endeavor or fair to to focus on on all the negative Hoy bayas um it did take you back right like watching that uh tribute video the Cubs are excellent at those thank you videos because they have great material to work with and I think just mentally kind of going running through the catalog of like oh yeah we were there for that or oh remember that one um maybe they showed the only part of it but mean that basket home run in game one of the 2016 playoffs like totally set the course for that uh playoff run and his emergence as not just like a baseball star but just a player who I mean you saw it I mean just how the way kids gravitated towards him and the way like the bias jerseys popped up everywhere and how like be like jav became a thing like I don't think that's something we may never see something like that ever again or maybe like in 20 years but just it's just so rare to find a player who transcends things like that I mean we were growing up like Bo Jackson but doing it in two different sports but there aren't many baseball players who bring that level of uh style and entertainment to the ballpark every day that feeling of like what's howby gonna do next and just the way even major league players would kind of look at him like dude I don't know how he does it or where he comes up with this stuff just to keep to have like you know millionaire ball players and awe of you and like to have no clue like like where you're going to be or what you're going to do or to like the way him and Rizzo would just mess with each other on like popups you during the playoffs and how they would you know Jed sort of alluded to it last night of how there would be times in those big games where he would just be so like casual making a play and it would just be like you know sweating up in the box and jav would just kind of do one of his kind of you know like the ball or just kind of casually catch it and make the play and just was an unbelievable talent that is clearly it's clearly faded and I think the next time we'll probably write about him will be whenever the Tigers releasing big shout out to America's number one meal kit hellofresh for helping us eat good during this busy time of the year for us with hellofresh you get prored ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep it's home cooking made easy fun and affordable hellofresh makes it easy even for pick eaters like Scott there's a changing menu of 50 recipes to choose from each week customize it to fit your taste there's protein and veggie swap options too the recipes are easy to follow just choose your delivery day open your box cook and eat my house is busy with sports but family dinners are important my fam eats better healthier and we cook so much easier with hellofresh and for a limited time kids eat free go to hellofresh.com /ft kids to unlock this exclusive offer one free kids meal per box for two months while subscription is active that's free kids meals just by going to hellofresh.com fkids right right yeah and and the it's probably a good thing that um you know Cubs fans didn't have to watch this version of him you know daily that they they they get those good memories and and they they get to appreciate who he was at his best and and I think that's you know that's a good thing it's good to have those baseball memories and and you know it was a pleasure to cover someone like that because you're right it was like what there were so many times when I had a plan and then he he would just do something it would just be and I was like well I got to write about that you know and it's like yeah I know I've written about Javi you know a dozen times already this season but got right about that one like that's that's what the fans are going to want to read about and he'd he'd change your plans because and it would just be like something like seemingly simple but it would it would just it would be the aesthetically like just watching it happen was like wow that was that was beautiful to watch and I cannot believe he pulled it off uh and and you'd have to you'd have to ask people about it and write about it and and somehow explain something that just you you had to see to really witness to to really appreciate right I mean that Pirates play was a good example and there were just so many of those to to your points ative of like you've got your plan and then something like oh wait what was that slide or whatever it would immediately go viral you know between instant replay and social media he was the perfect guy for that window but even in the biggest games of his life it got to that point in 2016 where you almost had to like expect a jav headline almost every game like he was going to do something that had to be written about right and yeah absolutely uh so the Cubs did win last night three to one uh they did what they need to do they need to continue to win uh before we we get back into talk they are second place team Patrick second place team uh but uh there there's a lot more work before we start talking about uh you know anything regarding the playoffs they their Bullpen again was dominant uh it's been pretty damn good since June 1st this comes on the heels of them releasing Hector nerys it was kind of a surprise that this happened at this point they they called up Jack NE who is not related to Cam Neely um did you ask him that when you went up to him I didn't I didn't ask him he's a big dude with a great mustache yeah can confirm that yes that is true we'll see how how he performs I I don't know Patrick this came I wasn't you know I I'm not surprised this happened at some point in the these this final stretch I was a little surprised it came right now um but it you know nerys had been per I know fans are G to remember all the stress he he provided right like it was never easy with him the overall numbers since about like the middle of whatever that was June or I can't remember the exact date it was after the Tampa Bay series uh um they they were good they were they were pretty solid if those were his season numbers there would be no chance that you'd do make a move like this those weren't his season numbers um and even during that time he was getting hit hard uh and and he just he's a tight RPP act every single time he's out there and the reality was I didn't realize this look look there's there's more to this than just the performance on the field right we we'll I'll touch on that in a second but but he was like even during this hottest stretch like from June 1st on like where the bullpen has been dominant current guys in the bullpen I'm talking about guys that are still there that are in this Bullpen he was like seventh in erra that's how good this Bullpen has been it's a deep group um I don't think anyone ever felt truly comfortable with Hector nerys out there and yes was was Craig Council putting him out there in big moments absolutely I would go look at the Players especially lately he was F he was not facing the heart of the order even against Toronto did he ever face Vlad Jr no that was usually Porter Hodge in big moments um I I think sometimes people focus on the ninth inning he was facing he wasn't always facing the like heart of the order he was facing the bottom of the order oftentimes when he came in in the ninth inning Council was trying to get his best relievers against the best players some but he still had nerys in in big situations CU I mean he can handle that moment in you know in in a sense but this wasn't working uh obviously there's SM to this with his option and them getting out from under that uh he it won't vest or what it become it would have become a player option if he got to 60 appearances 14 appearances short would have been pretty tough to get there but it was like right like if they continued to use him like they had it would have been like 59 you know and there's also right the games finished component and finishing the season healthy which he's been you know amazing uh throughout his career so yeah no I mean it looks Shady like it's not something that I think you can be like oh give the Cubs a ton of credit on this one of yeah like it it's it's a little icky just you know for a guy that you targeted for his leadership ability is a guy who's kind of revered by some of those young players in the clubhous guy who's accomplished a lot in this game um it's something that I think the mlbpa would certainly review I don't know how much is how much there is there though um when you look at any of the kind of under the hood numbers here like and also just kind of that eye test or you know gut feel you're talking about there of like they didn't feel comfortable when he was on the mound and like there were B almost any other relief on the current roster they felt better than in almost any situation and so I think we'd expect him to latch on to a contending team everyone always needs Bol then help you kind of get him in your organization for basically nothing he had has pitched in the biggest games he's got a World Series ring you know he's going to be a good dude when he walks in and maybe it's just as simple as that of just F finding him a good landing spot and moving on and kind of forgetting about it but um it will be interesting to see like how much or how little they continue to either shed veteran players or just look harder or try harder to create opportunities for for young guys in the last month plus of the Season yeah that that certainly will be something we need to watch it doesn't seem like it's something they definitely want to do right now but we'll see if they if they don't take care of business over the next two weeks uh it could make sense uh I don't know you know I think it would be more on the position player side right than I guess you know like there's there is Jordan Wicks is going to come back soonish maybe in a 10 days is or be ready to come back right we'll see how they uh maneuver that uh that may not be too complicated uh a thing to accomplish so we we'll see on that but the there are players obviously that could get some burn this season I think the two most obvious are Kevin alcantra and Owen Casey they want playing time for these guys right alcantra is already on the 40 Man Casey needs to be after the season right so those two are obvious we'll see on like bios we'll see what what happens yeah you could go either way you could say like it makes more sense to bring up bias stos if they're contending right as a lefty bat that they want uh and to force him onto the 40 Man uh so so I could see the argument either way it's like oh no they're out of it call them up and and get get him as much playing time we we'll see how that plays out I I think it's interesting just how good this Bullpen looks and I I think now looking at it like I really took a look at it yes I know there's been individual performances Porter hodj has been great um Jorge Lopez had like I'm just like watching him pitch and then seeing the stuff sometimes I'm just like wa this guy was released I understand there that was a complicated situation with the Mets but wow what like this guy isn't just like a situational reliever for this team like he's throwing 97 with with good breaking stuff and and pitching the eighth or ninth inning and he'll face like he'll come in against their best like two of their key relievers were picked up off the scrap Heap in Lopez and and Tyson Miller and Miller's like they're firemen essentially you get a runner on Runner or two on and there's a righty coming up call Tyson Miller in um this this Bullpen looks really good and I know people are going to look at the Save stats the blown save stats and say it's an issue listen it was it was an issue for April and May um and and there were moments even in June and July where it it was it was like oh woof you know uh caused problems but but that happens in general that there will be moments it's hard for a bullpen to be perfect but I think it it you know it's a strength of this team suddenly and with with h I think Tyson Miller is under contract for next year right like almost certainly U Jorge Lopez under Club control for a while yeah yeah yeah and then jge Jorge Lopez isn't but I think he's done enough for them to at least be intrigued he's very comfortable with this team he has a history with a lot of people uh in the org uh I'm curious if they try and bring him back uh I'm missing other guys that have been really good uh Drew Smiley's been great I know he's a free agent uh unlikely he comes back but you know this this Bullpen is is kind of set up to to be you know they can they can make some moves add some veterans if they want to in the offseason but there's some young guys suddenly with Hajj I'm really curious to see what Neely does he's got this what they call a spider because it's a slider that sometimes has that that sometimes has arms side action that's what uh his Bullpen coach in in Iowa or bullpen catcher in Iowa decided to call it because it's a slider that moves like a splitter at times uh Neely said that uh you know it sometimes moves like a traditional slider sometimes it it suddenly has arm action that's his that's his go-to pitch and I think the dude at a 52% strikeout rate at Triple A with the Cubs you know six and two-thirds Innings but still slider slider that he doesn't know where it's going yeah yeah yeah uh uh it it it was working that's all I know and and he throws in the mid topper 90s with the fast ball uh he's a reliever so we'll see where these young arms they finally have some some stuff too you know what I mean they have stuff in the bullpen they have guys that can pitch uh we'll we'll see what it leads to but I I think that's an interesting part of the team you have to be careful with this you have to be careful with bullpens we we've seen guys come up uh perform for three months and then the next year they're nothing like that or they get hurt or whatever it is uh but with those guys and then Maryweather yeah I know he hasn't been perfect but he's just kind of ramping back up right now there's a lot of guys in this bull plan that you're like okay that you can keep them for next year and suddenly you don't have to spend uh 15 million to get like the top-of-the market uh reliever um not that they'd ever do that you're you're reading my Minds side I was just about to jump in there and be like what does JED always say the worst time to evaluate players is spring training in September and I feel like there's very much a risk for the Cubs talking themselves into like hey we figured out the bullpen and like offense might clean up against some really bad pitching staffs in in September and oh hey Jordan Wicks came back and made two starts like maybe just I don't know I have a feeling that Craig council's not gonna let a lot of that stand that he will be very much uh reasonable and patient and willing to listen but I I think there's a huge danger in that this like false sense of security that it sometimes feel like feels like the Cubs create of you know well our infrastructure oh I mean we got sweepers and spiders and spinker whatever you know like you know the the old uh the Cubs always throw no hitters in the pitch lab uh and then you got to figure out how to you know you know make I think our buddy Jesse Rogers mentioned this on on Twitter of like yeah the overall numbers are pretty good but like look at it in high leverage have they made the pitches when they had to and like when you look at the amount of one-run games they've lost when you look at a sub 500 record it's like no doubt they are good at that kind of process of piecing things together and on the flight I'm not saying it's nothing like obviously that's good but like there between like being competent and better than teams like you know the white socks and the Rockies and then there's also that doesn't make you a playoff Contender and and that to me is g to be the interesting part of like when are they gonna let the kids play let the kids play be not that there's that many spots but you know nerth wasn't perfect but if the Cubs were winning and he was a little better that's not a guy that you just get rid of right I mean they have like that's kind of the nature of of relievers and I get that but uh I think there would have been they would have exercised a little more caution of like right of like what if basically what happened last year what if all of our what if all their best relievers like go down at once you'd probably want Hector nerys around or you would be be a little more concerned about how is this going to play in in the clubhouse and like right right if Neely was so good wouldn't he be like pitching at Yankee Stadium right now I don't know it's I I do think we are going to learn a lot over these last you know month month this last month or so like I think just by their by their actions how people perform how they kind of process this uh will be interesting yes I and I agree with you I think there's this isn't like fullon waving the White Flag but it it's a precursor if if this next it's kind of taking it out of the drawer and just kind of leaving the White Flag in case you want to raise it yeah it it's like okay because it I mean I do understand like you everything you said is right about like why you wouldn't release nerys right in a if they were fully contending but I also think like there's plenty of reasons why you would in this kind of like borderline situation you know like it because it's this borderline situation then you add in the financial component which they'll never say is a is a factor which absolutely is a factor uh it makes sense like I I think it's like like we said before I don't I don't like it I don't like that that that teams do this stuff but it's the reality of it they they're they guaranteed they just freed up 9 million for next season so that that makes sense for them uh I wish we could uh show readers Jed's face when you asked hey how did nars's potential investing player option for next season factor into it it was this quick quick uh head nod headshake uh sort of a cringe kind of his lips curled up and then just looked away for the next question I think you got one no file away uh just in case we uh yeah it was a it was a quick no with the headshake J Jesse Rogers does a good impersonation of it so uh yeah it we you know that that's it's just how baseball is nowadays it's not rare to see stuff like that it it doesn't feel good but it it is yeah I I think these next next six weeks or whatever we're at now uh how they handle this what they do U it's a lot is gonna be about how they perform right like uh I was talking to to someone about this and I was like well you know if you lose you know seven of eight here when you should be winning uh that kind of changes your thinking and they were like absolutely I was like how much like you guys pay attention to these playoff odds so much but like what what happens if you win eight in a row and and it was pointed out well your playoff odds go to 30% probably so you know thinking changes absolutely so so yeah this next week this these next two weeks Tigers uh Marlins Pirates Nationals right and then Pirates again that's that's the season that that tells us how how they perform on the field will tell us a lot and then their actions as these things unfold the front office will tell us a lot right in what direction they're going what they're trying to figure out for 2025 this was a move with I think they justify it they they justifi it to us as like I thought one of hoyer's quotes that you know it it kind of got overlooked and and I get why it was this was a lot like this move is like how they handled the deadline yeah could it help for 2024 sure probably maybe but it's it's also like this is a move for 2025 and Beyond and and Council said as much at one point um Neely could be better than Hector nerys this season right he could be but mainly uh mainly this is to see if he can help the team in 2025 and Beyond and that's what that's what most of these moves were um they just weren't going to make moves with 2024 solely in mind but we we'll see if they're they can be better for 2024 um I they don't instill a lot of confidence just because they can't you know rattle off eight wins in a row they haven't done it so I'm hesitant to be like hey look at this you know it the reality is they're playing such poor teams and you watch these teams and you're like yeah okay they can win eight in a row but they still haven't they still lose one nothing to the Toronto Blue Jays um yeah that was a Crusher yeah the the player player of the week though in the AL uh that that was uh Bowden Bowen Francis however his name is uh pronounced I was I kept Googling that guy what's his name like is is he you know is is he a name the prospect nerds are all over that I should be aware of and then I looked at his reference page and I was like yeah he's kind of been an up and down guy for a while and just absolutely dominating the Cubs yeah at at Wrigley Field so yeah I mean outside of the Yankees coming to Wrigley Field and then the Cubs going out to Dodgers Stadium those six games those might be the only games that really uh have kind of like playoff race integrity at stake I know they go to Philadelphia towards the end of the year but maybe things will wrapped up by then I mean who knows in terms of what the Phillies would still have to play for but um that I think would be part of it too of just you know letting seeing what you have and making some of those decisions and and Council I will say has been pretty consistent going back you know weeks several weeks probably before the trade deadline of saying just because you trade away a veteran player and bring up a young player does not mean you are incorporating a lesser player that was part of this whole gray area thing that you know kind of a theme that emerged gradually over the summer of how he feels like it's a lot more nuanced than just buyer seller and it's not just veteran and unknown that you know he is very much willing to work with unproven young Talent and he very much has the future uh in mind as well and so how that plays out we don't know exactly I think we will find out shortly after the season you know and as we get into the offseason of like what council really wants and what he really thinks of this organization but for now we're seeing these kind of smaller moves that taken together um whether it's the parus trade the lighter trade the nerys uh goodbye um it has shown us a lot about what the Cubs and what they're thinking yeah and I'm almost more interested in in that council stuff you were just talking about how what what kind sort of things he's going to adjust uh come what whatever it is October or later uh that's going to be fascinating and and I'm looking forward to breaking all that stuff down uh yeah so the P so the the Cubs have two more against Detroit we will be back for uh an episode for Friday I believe right uh thinking mailbag maybe yeah yeah we'll we'll get some of your questions fans uh yeah earring of grievances we'll see if it's an earring of grievances or how how fans are feeling maybe maybe the Cubs will finally swept the Tigers uh I'm not I'm not gonna hold my breath but um we we'll see where they're at and and how fans are reacting we'll we'll take the Pulse of the fan base thanks for listening everyone this is n territory uh make sure to subscribe rate and review subscribe to the YouTube page that would be great uh subscribe to the athletic where you can read Patrick and my work on the Cubs uh we'll be back at this shortly thanks for listening take care