761 | Isaiah Hodgins & Isaiah Simmons | Giants Player, Profile & Projections

Isaiah Hodgins welcome to talking Giants player profiles and projections brought to you by Captain Morgan I'm your host Bobby skin here with my co-host Justin penck and this is the Isaiah episode we're talking about Isaiah hodgin and Isaiah Simmons but we're going to start with Isaiah Hodgins 6'4 210 pounds he's 25 years old was a sixth rounder in 2020 out of Oregon State Giants uh brought him back on a minimum contract after not uh tendering him as a restricted free agent you know we all know the story with Hodgins the bills waved him and the Giants claimed in November 2 uh November 2nd in 2022 and he immediately got playing time for that Giants team and he was a godsent to that Giants because it gave them three wide receiver options that they could rely on was the starter last year but eventually gave up his role to Jaylen Hyatt Justin and now with the addition of Malik neighbors he's very clearly not one of the top four wide receivers on this team but I hope that he does have a roster spot despite the fact that he played zero special team snaps last year yeah I agree with you Bobby and Isaiah Hodgins will always hold the place in uh in Giants fans Hearts over what he did in 2022 and then I think kind of got overhyped heading into 2023 and now I think he's he's landed in terms of his roster spot he's landed in a good spot where I think he he belongs on on an NFL roster maybe there are some teams where he's challenging to be that third that third wide receiver because the Giants do have a little bit of depth but for that exact reason because the Giants have depth Isaiah Hodgins is part of that depth that why we feel good about it I mean even though there's a crowded outside room with Slayton ha in Neighbors we feel good about the depth that's even behind them because Isaiah Hodgins is here and you know he's not just this run-of-the-mill special teamer that that's that's here he can contribute he contributes inside the Red Zone I even think he could have a role on this team inside the Red Zone again like he had last year yeah and again I I just think it's it's good to have I'd like to have just some deep depth at one spot right and not just immediately feel like well we don't need that guy let's move on um like I would like to keep him you know and he and he was important on that 2022 team right they averaged 23.2 points per game with him and then 20 and a half with him the difference between 11th and 21st in scoring yeah um you know last year he had 21 catches 230 yards three touchdowns on a 63% catch rate in 17 games the year before you had 33 catches 351 yards four touchdowns on a 78% catch rate in only eight games um where 2022 he was third in yards per game at 44 you know he obviously had that 100 yard playoff game was one of only two 200 yard games that year for the Giants and then last year was seventh in the uh yards per game on the team but he still had three touchdowns was third on the team after Slayton and saquon Barkley both had four receiving touchdowns he's a good chis route Runner with like really good good timing like that's like he he has that down he has that down better than guys that probably going to be starting for the Giants you know he's good at the stem to freeze DBS and gain separation and he has great hands at the catch away from his body in stride right one drop in two years and that's why you you're talking about Red Zone like his route running translates in the red zone and he led the team you know these last two years with those eight receiving touchdowns um even when again even when his his playing time reduced like the Patriots game he had a touchdown in that game the Packers game he had a touchdown in that game you know from Tommy DeVito like that was with playing you know 25 to 35% of the snaps he was still able to get out there on the field and be used in those spots the thing going against Hodgins though is that if everyone stays healthy there's really very very little playing time for him but if one guy gets hurt if Slayton neighbors or Hayek gets hurt then I think he's back to having the same role that he had last year which is something I would like to keep him around for yeah and and his role last year was uh being on the field for 46% of the snaps that he was eligible to play for and I agree with you if one guy goes down I think that's where that number is going to is going to return to but the the interesting thing about Isaiah Hodgins Bobby we've talked about this since the Giants have acquired him and you know even flirting with in 2022 2022 what is his role going to be and how good can Isaiah hodin be he's a 6 foot three 200 pound wide receiver who you would you would look at that you would look at that height and you look at that body being like oh this guy could this guy could maybe catch the ball at all three levels of the field and this guy could maybe challenge deeper or even go up and get some contested catches that's just not the case with him he's a big wide receiver whose average depth of Target is the number of a slot receiver like if if we were to remove if you were to remove Isaiah hodin and you remove his height and his weight from this conversation and you just heard the way that like we're talking about him oh little bit of a red zone a Red Zone weapon that can get open that is a good route Runner you're thinking that we're talking about like a a slot Wide Receiver right now basically what he is even though he lines up on the outside obviously um and he benefited so much from that year because it was a you know a short you know a low average depth of Target timing offense and that's that's what fits Isaiah hodin really well but you know last year I remember at this time when people were like trying to say hoggins was the wide receiver one he's better than Darius Slay and you know and it's like well he's not better than Darius Slayton and they're gonna want to play Jaylen hayatt and that's that's who Hyatt's GNA take playing time away from is Isaiah Hodgins you know we're like what does hodin have to do to kind of fight off Jaylen Hy the thing we said was like you know was he needed to become a contested catch threat to to Really and I still think he needs to do that to really further his career to get playing time you know down the road in the NFL because he does have the size to do it right if he can do that then he's someone who can can play more than what he's you know slated to do on the Giants this year but we just have never ever seen that from him La last year they even tried in training camp and it was it was really the only guy Daniel Jones didn't have a connection in last year in training camp and this year he doesn't get any snaps with the first team but the main thing is just the speed holds him back right and that's why he's a zero to 12 yard receiver because he just doesn't have the speed to separate once he he like he he doesn't have the speed to separate once he's done at this at the top of the route no no and that's why his his role on this offense with a a crew very fast wide receivers and Robinson neighbors Slayton Hyatt that's why his his role is diminished because he just doesn't he doesn't have that same X Factor speed yeah and and again like you mentioned like well he does things that slot receivers do well you have a slot you have you have a slot wide receiver and juell Robinson um and you have Slayton a guy who can win at all three levels now you have neighbors who's supposed to be a star wide receiver and you have Jaylen Hyatt who can create plays down the field and you want to get more involved and it's just it's going to leave Isaiah hodin frustrated and if he does get cut you understand it because again he played zero special team snaps so you're not you're not you're not really angry if he's losing that spot but but I just think of on a 53 man roster we're like think of some of the names that we're going to end up keeping and end up going to be healthy scratched every single week right like there's going to be healthy scratches every single week you know unless unless you're severely injured why not keep Isaiah Hodgins around as the fifth guy on the depth chart and just have have a position of strength at wide receiver that hey even if two players go down you can at least put out guys there that you can run three wide receiver offens is through yeah and and you never know where you know you could snap your finger and a guy goes down and all right well Isaiah McKenzie you're up bud you know I i' I'd rather have I'd rather have a guy like Isaiah Hodgins there who who you know we know what he's good in and the areas in which he's good in he's he's pretty he's pretty decent in where you can't say that about most teams number five wide receivers and Bobby you know even if everybody does stay healthy which won't happen but even if everybody does stay healthy I'm still not surprised if we're sitting here at Year's End saying Isaiah hodin still found a way to catch three touchdown passes this year because I think he will be using the Red Zone yeah yeah I agree so you can have like a specialized role with him and we're not talking he did not he didn't regress from the 2022 season where he was third on the team in yards per game and one of the guys he was third to was a guy who played three games in Sterling Shepard so essentially was second on the team in yards per game he didn't regress from that just the room improved right they added H um now they've added M League neighbors and I also think the league I also think the league figured out what the Giants were trying to do offensively with a quick game fair fair um but if you get Malik neighbor still out there and he hodin out there it just allows more opportunities for him so again I I would keep him despite the fact that he has played zero special team snaps and he's fifth on the death chart Justin won don't you talk to us about something I'll talk to you about something um moving on from one Isaiah to the next but before we get to the next Isaiah we got to talk about Captain Morgan you know what I I I can I can Envision Isaiah hajin and Isaiah Simmons coming together for for a nice evening of Captain Morgan did you know the about Isaiah McKenzie uh no he's not invited he he doesn't he doesn't get invited too short Too Short um he's the Isaiah you know he's a new Isaiah so it's like get out man get out pop uh did you know that this Captain Morgan is the official Spiced Rum sponsor of the NFL when things get Bland you got to try Captain Morgan original spice rum delicious crisp perfect for game day with friends or even perfect for a nice little evening of ppps I hope you hey if you're if you're catching up on this series and you're listening right now I appreciate you because this is the perfect binge worthy series for you spice it up with Captain Morgan visit Captain morgan.com to find Captain near you please drink responsibly Captain Morgan original spice rum 35% alcohol by volume Captain Morgan original rum Captain Morgan rum company in New York New York you'll be glad you did you'll be glad you did Isaiah Simmons let's talk about Isaiah Simmons and this is this is kind of a fun player profile to talk about because it's so specialized you know so that you can find some cool stuff on them so Isaiah Simmons 6'4 238 lbs 26 years old the eighth overall pick in the 2020 draft and as we all remember the debate in 2020 was do you take offensive tackle or you take Isaiah Simmons Hain Giants was right and specifically we wanted Andrew Thomas when everyone wanted the other tackles well but guess what we got both it's it's the it's a Victory lap that I'll never stop Victory lapping just because I because I love that player so much um but now we got both so the Giants traded a seventh round pick for him last year around cutdown day and they got what they wanted out of him despite the fact that he only started one game for them uh you know last year uh he had 50 tackles one sack two tackles for a loss and interception that was returned for a touchdown and they brought him back on a one-year $2 million deal despite the fact that the coordinator who really liked him in wink marale is gone they brought him in to play a role and he did just that Justin he played 33% of the snaps you know he started versus Miami with Mike mcfaden out but he didn't play more than 50% of the snaps in any game outside of that one besides the final week of the year and here's a stat 80% of his snaps were on passing plays outside the Miami game 80% over 80 80.8% so like he was a passing down player whether that was on Third and long putting him in in coverage or putting him on Third and short or third and seven putting him on the line of scrimmage and asking him him to either Blitz and use a speed or drop back in the coverage he was a specialized player but he's a he's he's essentially a defensive Gadget player at at this point in his career which is which is fine if he was on not for Arizona but for any team that brings him in now it's a fine role for him yeah and Bobby I would even argue that last year was his most effective year in the NFL now he had trying to recoup their investment of eighth overall pick he had 20 in 2022 and 20 I me granted for the Cardinals where they played him over a thousand snaps like you said they took him in the first round you said seventh overall pick um or eighth overall pick excuse me for the Giants who you know gave up a seventh round pick for him like I I I think this is that was a very worthy investment I think it but I think it worked out for him but I would even say it like last year was the most effective year of his career because even though there have been years where he's gotten a thousand snaps or 900 snaps and and turtle and and total sacks hits hurries and and overall pressure he had Isaiah Simmons had eight last year on 91 pass rush snaps when in the past he's had 116 pass row snaps so the the rate it was pretty good seven hurries um you know he had a 16 total stops last year um which was close to what he's done in the past even in 2022 when he had 900 snaps so for what his expectation is for this Giants team in 2023 he was very effective in that role yeah they knew what he was and they deployed him as such right they didn't try and turn him into a full-time nickel or a safety or a full-time linebacker they basically said you don't have a position you're a gadget player on third down you're going to do this on early Downs you know you won't be on the field that often but you will do this um he did and he did it well right when they put him on the line of scrimmage right and it's either go or drop back and get into a spot because the ball's going to come out quick because of the way we're lining up and these all across the line Looks no one can get to the quarterback from the corner as fast as IIM as Simmons right he didn't bust because of his speed and ath iism size so he can get towards the quarterback while being big and do that and this is where I thought he was the best where he could have been the worst because he's been a bad tackler in his career and he didn't show very good tackle form but on third down and long third down or 12 or whatever they put him at linebacker and basically have him drop back to the sticks and when the quarterback would inevitably probably check the ball down at four or five yards he rallied really wild to the ball he didn't tackle with great form but he would get to the ball carrier and at the end of the day bring them down um and he did that pretty damn consistently I can't remember any times that that struggled the only times I remember like the Simmons struggling was I think the Eagles completed like a third and 20 like over his head but even that was B like I thought he did he did that well now if you put him in the box and ask him to play linebacker on a downtown snap he's going to miss tackles and it's going to look ugly but if you're just kind of like hey race this guy to the sideline and make sure he doesn't get to that stick oh he's gonna win he's gonna win and that's what he did really well for them last year and the only thing that I wish he did a little bit better Bobby I wish he had more pass rush moves or more pass rush finesse in his bag because no it's just run straight I'll tell you what because it's fun like he he can get to a spot he's fast he gets off the ball but if only he added a little bit more to his bag which I I I think he should at this point in his career like you're a position player I and you're going to be asked to Blitz and go after the quarterback a decent amount especially now that they've transitioned him to Nickel corner and the Shane Bowen's defense and we know the the position that Shane Bowen likes to send the most on the defense outside of the front four it is going to be that nickel corner I almost wish that he added a little bit uh to his back because I think that can make him so much more of an effective player in terms of getting at negative plays so that's the only thing I wish because he can get in the back field but I almost wish he was a player that finished more of them yeah so let's talk about his role this year so it was said on hard KN he's a early down nickel and third down moneyback which is the same position he played for wink Martin Dale on on the third down role so third down I think is going to be the exact same I don't think there's going to be anything different I just think the only difference will be there's less of those cover zero looks right but I even think that that Bowen has shown a little bit in Camp that they might do a little more of that than we expect but it's camp and sometimes that doesn't Translate the difference is I don't do we even think he really gets on the field on early Downs like I understand that's like his position right now is nickel corner and that's the position he practices with but I don't I just don't know if he's G to get on the field to be that role but if he does I think it's basically verse 12 Personnel you put him down as like a big nickel and you're Bas you play The Run and if it's pass you play you play the flats and it's a very simple assignment cuz I don't see them asking him to do much more than that on early Downs he was on the field for 33% of the snaps last year Bobby I think it I think it could be around the same this year which I think would be I but I think it's similar because he didn't play very many early Downs for wink Mart like again he played one game where he played 100% of the snaps vers Miami because Mike mcfaden was injured so in a sense he played you know let me let me do let me do some quick math on this podcast would you bring it down to 25% where it's one out of every before plays he's on the field yeah I don't I don't think it brings it back to 25% but it was basically he was on the and he's still like cuz Mike mcfaden as much as we were excited about his year last year he's not a good coverage player um on on third down so he's still going to get those those reps so he played 377 snaps last year 377 minus Come on load for me Johnny load for me Johnny he played how many snaps versus Miami 54 minus 54 divided by 16 he played 20 snaps a game so you're thinking like there's 12 to 15 third Downs in every game and then if there's 65 two minute drill you're putting them out there and like that so um or when teams are in passing situations so like that's that's when you look at it right then that's basically what he got of like 15 to 20 plays every every single game my guess this year is still my guess still this year is is 33% of the snaps yeah I again I think it's extremely similar to last year so if he if he starts a game like he did last year then throw 3% if he doesn't it's going to be you know 20 20 snaps for game whatever percentage wise that ends up being so anything else on Isaiah Simmons no like the player and uh he's how what's this contract look like one year one year $2 million so they actually gave him him some real money and they would you know have a good amount of dead cap if they cut him so they do have a plan for him um I just don't think the plan is as big as people want it to be for Isaiah Simons because there's still just let's let's bring let's bring hjin back into this too because we didn't talk about this with him Isaiah hodgin and Isaiah Simmons are they Giants in 2025 Simmons yes hodin no I think the both unknown next year I think this is it I just think he might just end up playing out these one-year deals every single year with the Giants I think there's unless they get two just stud coverage linebackers I think there's I think there's a role for him on this team so and there wasn't a mark he went out there and didn't get a market for him this year and the Giants end up bringing him back late so all right that's an episode we will see you on the next one until then let's go big loop