Not Those Podcast Challenges And The Kelsey Brothers' $100 Million Podcast Deal | 276

the feed the Kelsey Brothers 100 million deal discussing Neilon quarterly report the record that had some pretty astounding data Skull Candy headphones with podcast mode Rob reacts to The Hollywood Reporter story on podcast challenges for Barrett media that's a mini soap box moment follow up on the Universal Music for creators partnership with libson how to optimize your show notes formatting for most podcast apps stats mean and median numbers and a whole lot of other podcasting tips and bits hello I am LC Escobar director of community and content for Lipson and this is episode 276 of the feed the official Lipson podcast the podcast that takes it on how to podcast into keeping you podcasting with podcasting tips and information for the everyday podcaster and taking you inside lips in now if you would like to get futured on the show send in your 30 to 60c promo we have only one for this episode I've not been able to get requesting podcast promos from any other places consistently so that is my bad I have to develop a plan but regardless if you want to send in yours and be featured on the show attach it to an email and send it to the feed at lion.com if you don't have a promo but you want your voice on the show ask us a question or add it to the conversation that you hear on and any of our episodes so you send us voice feedback you can call us at 412 5731 1934 like a regular old phone call or you can use speakpipe ATP pipe.com slthe feed I'll be keeping an eye out on all of our email and then I'll send you all the information it is first come first serve to be featured so the sooner you get your info to me the sooner you'll get it in the queue and now onto our main conversation with Rob Walch VP of podcaster relations at lipsin as well as my co-host right now hello Rob good generic time of the day elsc how are you doing oh my gosh this Labor Day got on me and I had no idea what day it was sorry for the lack of preparation for the show we're recording today the first day of the NFL season yay coach oh is that what that is today okay oh thanks for letting me know I'm so far removed from NFL well it means Falls here right that's what it means is that what that means that is correct I know everyone says it's when the pumpkin spice lattes come out that's really fall but I think it's more when the NFL kicks off so also it seems like Starbucks is trying to capitalize on that though they're starting to release them like way early they literally just did it and it's the earliest that's ever happened so but Rob we keep on totally talking about things that happen right after we talk about them right we did it again we did it again yes and we're talking about the Kelsey brothers getting a100 million podcast deal as we speculated on the previous couple of episodes this deal is with Amazon via wander now that 100 million is less than they made combined the two brothers combined playing in the NFL which was over 150 million but it took many many years for that but still this is $100 million n figures yeah the deal is for three years from what's being reported a standard exclusive distribution deal an exclusive ad rep deal no IP ownership transfers that means uh the IP remains with the Kelsey now if Travis had just put a ring on it before September 1st then the deal could have been much more just saying saying oh my gosh and if Taylor Swift three years from now is Mrs Taylor Kelce expect the next deal to be significant much much more right it'll it it definitely would raise the value however if 3 months from now Taylor Swift has dumped Travis and is dating Jeremy Sumpter or Liam Hemsworth then well someone at wry will be looking for a new job note to self try to sign Jeremy and Liam to an exclusive ad stat okay but oh my gosh deal I mean it's a it's a good deal but this one is a lot more risky than Joe Rogan or call her daddy yeah historically they have a built audience and I guess experience behind the mic and there's just a lot of little things like that that are going on for that yeah you're right you're right these guys catapulted to fame if you will because of Taylor and they kept audience because they're good right they're a good Duo they are personable people like them like there's a lot of good stuff happening for that show but again we it is you're right it is a little bit more whoa okay we'll see if they can do the thing and you never know they might be the one the last men standing and I'm saying this wearing a chief shirt you know and a Chiefs fan if you guys have listened you know I've been a Chiefs fan long before Patrick Mahomes was there I've been literally at the very first preseason game that Patrick Mahomes ever played in I'm a Chiefs fan back from before coach Reed was the coach there and you know and my kids grew up their whole life as Chiefs fans so I say that yes Travis is really talented and his brother and him are funny and the podcast is good but is it 100 million good without tayor I don't really really see it I mean I it just tailor out of the picture is this deal worth what it's worth and I just couldn't see how it would be I don't know they'd have to work their little behinds off but if they get married if they get engaged and get married $100 million is a steal so little risk reward also though here's the other thing as well which is it going the other way cuz I have seen a couple Rumblings in there and I know this is again this is all gossip people we have become a culture gossip podcast just for right now I have seen some things out there again gossip allegedly in the way of the world out there that these two are talking about a plan for announcing a breakup which has been a rumor and his he's got lawyers on that so the word out of the his Camp is that it's purely made up and it's forgery yeah I I saw those articles right but all I'm saying is again cuz that's the same thing it's gossip and this happens all the time then it actually could also benefit because if you think about it what if they break up within the next 3 months or so or whatever four months who's going to be listening to the podcast all the people that want to hear the story are they going to want to listen for three years are they going to want to listen for 3 years after the well that's when they're going to have to keep them right so they do have the opportunity for that and anytime it happens cuz I've seen it with a lot of other pop culture podcast out there whenever there's like any kind of Scandal people are always listening just because they want to get the tea and I want to say this for the record I am a big fan of Travis and Taylor I hope they get married I think they're a wonderful couple and they do get married Amazon you made a great investment so I I hope that they stay together I I just think that they they're they're good for pop culture and I think they're good for each other more importantly but I'm saying that as as a big Chiefs fan not a Taylor fan I learned more about Taylor in the last year since started dating than I ever wanted to know I mean I literally couldn't have told you his name of one of her songs before they started dating so yeah okay so we have something from the podcast news really hear about neon's survey yeah so they had a survey they put out until the latest survey they said that almost 20% they said almost 20% of adults listening time went to podcasts the other 80% of the listening time went to just nodding their head in agreement to whatever their significant other was saying I guess oh my God yeah but when you look at the 18 to 34 year olds the amount of percentage of listening time went goes up to 35% because you know many of those do not have significant others yet so see you thought the first part I was joking oh my gosh and more though and more headphones from Skull Candy that now have podcast mode I did see this I wonder what that's all about so this is a quote quote the headphone maker Skull Candy has included what it is calling a podcast mode on a new set of headphones it is releasing as part of a collaboration with americ am professional skateboarder Nora vas wow that's a name I'm sorry Nora Nora vason cellos vasc contello and Elsie can't pronounce a name I think I know so Nora vasc contello here we go I hope that that was it I tried the limited edition collection will give users the option of selecting between music movie or podcast EQ modes Skull Candy says the way the headphones deliver the best audio quality for the content being consumed the new collab began selling in August ranging from $29.99 to $29.99 unquote okay for some really serious podcast listeners yeah um but but I mean I really like the fact that they've done that though I I think it's neat to be able to have that there because it it again it just really it's nice that the headphones aren't just optimized for heavy bass correct not looking at you beats not not looking at you but again though I think that I what I really love about this too is that it's putting the word podcast out there in another in a way in which it is so familiar and so embedded into the audio or into the headphone situation where you know oh I'm going to be listening to P that like that's a mode how cool is that that podcasts are mode now and if you have apple airod Pros you can do some EQ setting in there to to do some things like that as well but you have to tweak it a little bit but you can do it just it's not a preset mode which is what we like G Skull Candy for making it easy for people to optimize for voice for spoken word for spoken word and then rob you are famous on this Barrett media article titled podcasting experts react to The Hollywood Reporter story on podcast challenges I actually did not read either of those stories because all of the stuff that you're sharing here came out right before podcast movement and that's not a good time for me to be reading long form articles well yeah in in the post didn't have just feedback from me there was also uh John gforth hubard radio VP and GM who we um just mentioned a couple episodes ago um getting that position congrats uh again John on the new position um Stephen Goldstein longtime friend of of and uh an amplifying media uh CEO as well and then uh John W former Westwood One SVP and executive editor of podcasts it was the four of us they asked us these questions it was four different questions and Elsie if you can read the questions I will give what my answers were so this is my side uh you can definitely go check out the article the link to to see what John and Sten and John all had to say all right here we go quote Rachel mattow says None of the apps are great we don't just need curation and charts we need rational organization and a meritocratic way for the best and most relevant shows and episodes to circulate efficiently how can that be improved end quote Apple already uses an aristocratic method for featuring shows in the top charts and in search results and episodes as well I really doubt highly that Rachel has any understanding of app podcast works why would she Apple has done a great job in helping shows get a chance to be seen the algorithms they use reward new shows and existing popular shows if you are a show old or new that starts getting a following you will move up in the charts and if you are a show that has been around a long time and had many people follow your show over time you will get better placement and search results Apple definitely rewards those that get an audience but they still allow for new shows building an audience be seen right next to more established shows Apple has implemented a very thoughtful and fair system for both new and existing shows that is focused on The Listener being able to discover great content regardless if it's from a bigname network or from an independent podcaster I just always I always want to say kudos to Apple because they they really have done a great job in trying to make it a fair playground while still rewarding those that have done well I you know it's one of those meritocratic it's based on Merit let's just put it that way all right but they still give a chance for news shows and that's important and that's a tough thing to balance and I believe Apple's done a really good job of that so Kudos Apple okay and then here we go here's another another quote here quote Bill Simmons points out the issue of oversaturation which has a negative effect on Advertising should platforms that feature podcast have requirements to being featured or expectations that determine whether a Show brand or network can remain on the platform for example if a show doesn't reach a certain number of listens or download should it still be accessible on iTunes Spotify Ur Etc now this answer answer I needed to rewrite a few times to make uh me seem less angry but wow um what I said was this is a very advertising Centric look at things most podcasts not take advertising nor do they want to the whole reason podcasting took off to start with the ability for narrowcasting to be practical shows about Pig breeding or beekeeping or minor league single a BAS ball teams are never going to be huge but they are very important to the hosts and their listeners to suggest there are too many podcasts shows a lack of understanding of what podcasting is and also how many are really active sure they 2.7 million podcasts listed in apple podcast but only around 360,000 of 10 or more episodes and have released something in the last 90 days that 360k is far smaller than the hundreds of Millions of blogs out there the whole argument that podcasting is too crowded is just not accurate podcasting is not oversaturated and advertisers don't have an issue with this as they're being presented just the top one to two% of shows for ad campaigns not the full catalog add networks like lips and ads work with advertisers to make this an easy medium to buy into so in short everything that Bill Simmons was concerned about poppycock ah poppy doesn't get it that last part I didn't put in the response I sure as heck wanted to yeah I had to rewrite that one a few times to make it less angry yeah I have something to say after you're finished with all of the stuff because we actually have a a voicemail that very much supports some of the meaning of podcasts and the power that they actually have okay so here's another quote quote Ben shaar believes the biggest challenge is marketing particularly in news where government pressure has resulted in social media platforms cutting off traffic for news shows in particular for Brands not possessing a large budget how do they overcome this problem I was like at this point I was like oh great first you make me this on Rachel to get the left M me and now I have to comment on Ben to get the right mad at me brilliant thank you guys here's my answer podcasting is a lot like the movie industry and that word of mouth marketing will always Trump Big Marketing budgets many of the biggest shows in podcasting will sheepishly tell you they did not do anything to promote their show they let their audience do all the promoting yes having a marketing budget is great for getting the word out on a new show but if once you stop marketing the show the numbers fall off a cliff then that show was not very good to start with just like with movies the big Blockbusters are what they are not because of marketing spend but because the audiences told their friends and family to go consume content bencho show is an example of this regardless of all the deep platforming and algorithm bias against his show in social media his show was still a top five in the news category for July according to padra well ahead of shows from ABC and MSNBC that have much more favorable bias in social media in short Ben success is counter to what he says is the issue because he is successful given where he is and given social media bias out there and the algorithms that's been proven he just kind of defeated his own argument so that was what I was saying in there good cream Rises there that's all that's really what it comes down to and lastly there is one last little quote here discovery ability and navigating the transformation of an industry born out of radio as it grows and converges with video social media platforms and the Creator economy were also cited in the th piece how can the industry address these areas of concern well you know I was not going to let that comment an industry born out of radio go ID by my reply was podcasting is definitely not born out of radio the vast majority of shows have nothing to do with radio yes there are small but vocal percentage that come out of the radio world but the biggest shows like Joe Rogan lore uh vile files Joe budon have zero connection to radio over 98% of podcasts are not connected to radio at all the radio industry needs to realize podcasting is not an extension of radio it is its own medium that is open and free for any including radio did partake in there are no Gatekeepers in podcasting which means the shows listed next to you in apple podcasts are much more likely to be an indie podcaster working out of a basement or garage than a fellow radio personality in a studio and that was my reply there yeah I did not like an industry born out of radio podcasting is not an industry born out of radio no way no shape no how nope nope nope that is just radio people trying to rewrite the narrative and the history I was there in the beginning and it that was not radio nope nope nope sorry yeah and I think like all these folks were coming at it from their own experience which is I think what everybody else brings to the table right so they were they were answering based on where they had lived or where they had put their hands in it where they had worked before having something like a podcast which was just mainstream media and they are they already were coming at it from the perspective of those models and this is the way those things work and the expectations that even the way in which you disseminate content the way that you find content the way that you Market content all of those things were based on their understanding of mainstream media they didn't come out it from the other side which is the you make a podcast and they don't really understand the ecosystem that podcasting was born out of which was exactly what you were talking about not radio not the mainstream but the other layers of it all which is what I know yeah I I think that I was really more shocked than anything about some of these comments because my mouth a gape is what happened when I read some of these things because I didn't they there was such a lack of understanding that I didn't even know where to begin well you know and then it comes back to The Hollywood Reporter article which is why they would Barrett was writing right yeah because The Hollywood Reporter article was was bad yeah I absolutely well that's what I'm saying I understand why there was this other article written about it I get the the positioning of that but that's what I'm saying when I reading even and and thinking about this is what they were saying that there is a vast misunderstanding and it's as if they are in a completely different they're talking about something else yes that I'm wait what what is happening but to that note I think in a in a sense to combat that without me knowing it I wrote a little something that I actually posted on social so I'll have a link in the show notes to um I think that I'll put my LinkedIn post and my Instagram post which is basically the same into just two separate platforms and I wrote it I I believe more from what I felt when I was at podcast movement and I wanted to stand up for the everyday podcaster and really just let people that tend to not understand podcasters or the podcasting industry know where it came from right and to really honor the everyday podcaster voice and the impact that I feel all of us have had and I wrote a little something that inspired a lot of people I guess I mean I got a lot of really great engagement on both posts people really commented it got a lot of Engagement and all the different platforms I posted it and I decided to also share it in our newsletter so there's going to you guys there's a link in the show notes for you to sign up for the newsletter so that you can get these musings that come out of my head sometimes at the top of the newsletter it's free and then you get the show notes right below it and you can reference them anyway so we got a voice message from one of our people one of our audience members Naomi who is listens to the show but also subscribes to the newsletter and write my message so here we go hi Elsie and Rob this is Naomi hadway from the leaving well podcast and I just wanted to say thank you for the recent email about encouraging us as we belong whether we have a small number of downloads or a small audience or a big audience and a lot of downloads it struck a nerve as I know you said it has with so many others and I just wanted to let you know audibly verbally how much it does matter um I think it's so easy to get tied up into whether anyone cares whether anyone's listening and it was just a good reminder from you uh Elsie that what we're doing does matter and that even if it touches just one person uh that we need to keep going so thank you thanks Naomi appreciate that that was very sweet thank you very much and um hey if you want to read more interesting stuff like that uh sign up for the newsletter okay so moving on to our next email here it is aloha Rob hope you're doing well and your family is adjusting to your son going to college good pods contacted me to congratulate my podcast hitting their charts and said I could advertise this achievement I'm not familiar with them but still had questions are they a legitimate or known company are they a podcast charting service a podcast app would it be worth sharing that my podcast ranked high in their charts Mahalo this is from Cella kesir hello so first to one of your questions yes they're a legitimate company but good pods does not have stats info they are using an algorithm to estimate what a Show's audience size is yes they are guessing that show sizes that said anytime you can put something out that touts your show go ahead but again their charts are not based on actual downloads audience size they're using algorithm to try to guess where podcast sizes are and in their charts and rankings but hey if you can get promotion and you can say that you know and get somebody to listen to your podcast Kudos yeah and I believe that with good pods it is a very social media type podcast app kamu so check it out you can go and and see what's going on in there it has buil has sort of like a a very strong builtin Community within good pods folks that love good pod love good pods and they engage with a lot of their content there and my understanding from those rankings it is really based on the engagement that people get so within the platform and thus if there's a lot of people who are talking about your podcast downloading your podcast from within the app or or streaming it I'm not sure how they deal with their stuff in there and having you can have like five stars in there and they do have little um charts that rank up and down you can have a group there too actually you can create a group within good pods to get to know people and there's uh comments inside of good pods as well so sometimes your podcast itself has actual comments and reviews within the app itself so that you can see if other people within the platform really like your show and you can connect with those people it is a hybrid sort of app it's a listening app but it's also a a little bit of a social media app and they do um you know that the rankings go up and down we also get an email from good pods I always like it when we rank on good BS it makes me happy to know that there's people listening there so I like good pods for that respect it's very Community Driven okay here's another email hey Rob just saw that we're going to get six free months of this Universal I poked around looks like some great content but question so let's say I use some of their sound effects music and I use while in the 6 months free window when that expires and that episode is now in my archive do I have to go back and remove that audio if I decide not to continue with a subscription regards Doug Parsons just to start with this is in reference to the announcement we had on the last episode about the libson uh Universal Music uh umg deal to get music to use build out your podcast so you know go back and listen to episode 275 for more information on that and I asked Andy Rogers from our content team who who has helped put this deal together uh this question and Andy said that the best part as long as the episode is published while they have an active subscription then they're covered for perpetuity so while you're in that subscription window any episodes you release during that time are covered uh once you're subscription ends you can't continue to use that on new episodes but um you are covered for what had already been published during that window so you don't have to go back and re-edit take music out of old episodes but you can't use it in new ones just because you use it in old ones once the subscription ends which makes sense all right and we'll have links in this episode too to um some of the FAQ from our deal with umg sweet and I believe that uh uh we have a rant it's just it's a tiny rant just folks please stop reading articles that talk about Apple podcast losing its lead in podcasting there was another off the rail survey this time from cumulus and Signal Hill it is just so annoying when they come out no apple podcast is not where only 12% of consumption of podcast happens it is well over 40% more on that next episode when we get into user agents but I just wanted to say stop reading articles all right and I know I'm not putting a link in the show notes for that one okay uh all right and so we have uh something from the NSA nsa.gov yes so no such podcast just launched that is the official podcast for the NSA I love the name they chose given that NSA the joke used to be NSA stood for No Such agency oftentimes in the past they would just go as Fort me people would know him as Fort me when they were working with vendors they would they would order things as Fort me not as the NSA ah they launched early on September 5th with two episodes uh one about cyber security and one about how they caught Bin Laden uh again the title is no such podcast and for full and fair disclosure they are hosting with libson what is really strange is in my working career I've been in two different Industries for over 15 years in each of those different Industries two very very different Industries the first was quartz crystal oscillators and the second obviously is podcast hosting it is hard to find two industries so different from one another yet somehow in both Industries I had or have the NSA as a customer that I've had to deal with directly so H just curious my son thought that was really weird he goes Tad isn't it weird that the NSA was a customer of both places you worked at oh my gosh look at that yeah it is weird yeah oh my gosh Rob but yeah I'm happy they finally launch yeah good good check it out it's actually getting pretty good coverage I just saw the the couple articles there's one in wired there's one in um defense magazine trade magazine uh so the the fact that the NSA has a podcast is actually getting picked up in some media that's outside of the podcasting space so that's always nice because it says hey this's this podcast thing and and anytime you bring people in that aren't normally podcast listeners they find one podcast and they start listening to others so it's a good thing okay and we have a little bit of feedback here you want me to read this one oh yeah go ahead and yeah you can read I will play your part and you play okay awesome awesome woohoo hi Elsie super happy Lipson user here I have a question about show notes and ensuring that they show up correctly everywhere and The Lipson social team said to reach out to you directly the short version is all in this tweet on X and they gave a link to the tweet in case you can't follow that link I have my show notes formatted as HTML I use the code button within the Lipson 5 UI to ensure that it's correctly formatted HTML code from what I can tell the show notes display correctly in almost all apps but looks like Spotify Falls over a bit is there something that I'm not doing I realize that I'm asking a bit of a vague question what Spotify does it's out of Lipson hands just wondering if there's anything you can recommend when I write the show notes I start with markdown which I convert into HTML and paste into Lipson 5 new and edit episode UI and then double check the HTML is correct by grabbing the content from the code button and manually verifying it I'm a developer and have a bunch of tools to double check it from what I can tell the HML valid happy to share a link to the episode in question if that helps but it seems to be happening with all my episodes thanks Jamie PS if this could be useful for an episode of the feed please feel free to use it which we did Elsie you are the expert on this you by far are the expert on this so please answer away Jamie thank you first of all thank you so much for sending me your actual text file cuz I did ask him for that I asked him to for him to send me the markdown so that I could look at it in my own computer and look at it in the way that I do it and I went and I looked at his podcast in all the different podcast not all the different podcast sorry in like four and uh looked around there and and saw his formatting and stuff but so before I get to what's going on with his Show podcast apps this is a a big generalization but I'm really just sticking to that top tier uh like the 80% of all podcast apps basically podcast apps support super basic HTML like basic basic so the way that I always build my show notes is really more based on a mixture of visual formatting and when I say visual formatting I mean spacing like if you were looking just at text without any coding to without any language without any HTML markdown the number one way that I format the notes if I had zero to move from would be in spacing just a visual space between you know if you need to make a list have a header and when I say header you don't code the header you just have a sentence and then a space below it and then a paragraph and then a space below that so that's how I start first and then simple simple simple markdown and when I say markdown I also mean the actual language meaning that if there is no changing the markdown if I am only going to be sending a markdown uh list or file to somebody it's going to have the basic markdown on it so that person who gets it is going to be able to look at it and go oh this is a list because it has a little asteris or a little line in front of it so you could see physically what a list is imagine you sending your friend a list in iMessage and the way that you would format that list to your friend in iMessage that's kind of what I'm talking about here so there is no formatting in iMessage you kind of have to kind of deal with what what's in there so that's how I start but overall the general support of in quotes HTML in podcast apps is that most don't support images most don't support any kind of quote formatting in the way that uh we understand what those look like in HTML on websites and things like that when they're nicely coded no text formatting and what I by that I mean no bold no italic no headers and no sub bullets so if you have a bullet list and then you want another little list underneath the higher level bullet it's not going to support that either so that's basically most of them don't support any of that stuff what is supported 90% of the time are paragraphs which is spacing bullets and again basic bullets and links and some strip a hyperlink but most of the biggies really do keep hyperlinks and they all support naked links most of the time again so if you think about it from that perspective you're going to be fine you're going to be fine but it's not ever going to be giving you the exact beautiful layout that you have as if it was going to be rendered inside of a website or an RSS reader so podcast apps are not RSS readers they just don't show that now the best to show your show notes uh for me is still now are overcast Pocket Casts Castro and weirdly enough Spotify has really interesting things that it does it bolds a couple of things it bolds header tags and it bolds hyperlinks which is the first time that I really saw like it's a real Bolding part happening in apple podcast although um Apple podcast looks good at the top but they do truncate the bottom so there's missing information almost with every at least for mine because I think it's a a certain character count that they support I cannot remember what the maybe 4,000 characters something or 5 I don't know it's or 3,000 it's somewhere in the thousands thousand thousands and usually my show notes do get truncated right at the bottom of our links usually right when I'm sharing all the links some of the anything but those links is usually um not in there so before I talk I want to talk really briefly about YouTube after this but talking about your show notes so yours are really well formatted you have headers in there you do have separation between paragraphs you have bullets and all of those things look really nice the things that are I feel giving you trouble are your quotes so you do have some quotes in there that are not rendered the best because of it doesn't support a quote tag at all in most places the only place that I saw that was supportive of your quote was pocketcasts via indentation there's a little bit of an indentation when your quote is in there and thus it kind of makes it look like a quote the other thing that's a little challenging is that your paragraphs and I know that this is more about being readability versus proper paragraph writing is that especially with those quotes that you had in your show notes they are a lot of words many sentences and so when you are reading your show notes inside of a smartphone it is very hard to uh quickly skim it and a lot of us really like to skim stuff and those quotes that big chunk of words that you have at the beginning you can even just do a l uh a carriage return and have a little bit more spacing in there so that we can it makes it easier for us to read even though the paragraph itself might not Merit to be separate paragraphs and what I would say for you if you do want to put those quotes in there instead of using HTML to delineate them I would actually use actual quotes so put little quotation marks around the quote and that is is going to tell most of us reading that it's a quote you also don't need to have you can just you text as to who said the quote right beneath it there is no reason for you to code that beneath it at all it is uh it's going to be skimmed out and you mentioned something about Footers yeah it's there nothing supports Footers there's no footing supported putter supported in podcast apps that's just not going to happen so I would remove that as well and anything that is you just keep it think about the way that you would format to a friend in iMessage as best as you can and that's what you kind of go with and um it'll you'll be fine you'll be totally fine doing that kind of stuff the other thing that is going to be a little bit of a challenge for you and something that U maybe you could consider is that you do have a little um like sort of like a little bit of an outline so here's 0.1 Point 23 and like let's say 3 has a little sub uh indentation underneath it because of there's a subo to that podcast apps don't support that they are all the same level so if you want to have a subo there might be another way that you can delineate that possibly or put it in parentheses or use an emoji or use one of those little text and they're not graphics but they're are um Unicode uh type text uh arrows and things like that you can do stuff like that instead and that would probably do it better so instead of thinking of using code to make your podcast show notes uh look a certain way think about it from uh to clear it as much as possible and keep it to text and the last thing that I would say is there's nothing wrong with using header tags in fact I use them all the time for the feed they will more than likely be stripped for most podcasts in fact there's no change in character size uh inside of any podcast apps but it doesn't really hurt the formatting of my show notes at all and that way I don't have to do things twice it's all the same and for the most part it's being supported so you're doing fine it's just that the podcast apps don't support anything that's outside what I told you about so if you just keep to paragraphs bullets and links you're fine and paragraphs that spacing is the thing that's going to get it and I know that that's not the best answer now for YouTube good Lord so YouTube only supports plane text that's it like there is nothing else only supports plain text and naked links no hyperlinks at all the way that I have dealt with that because we do put out episodes of the feed on YouTube is I just have a template for my regular show notes and then I have a template for YouTube and all I do is within my I use obsidian to have all of my show notes I'm sure you're familiar with obsidian so then I just have that template set up there and then when I go to do the YouTube stuff I just highlight all of my bullets oh because that's the other thing it does not support bullets as in the way that they are shown inside of Mark down so I remove the bullets and that way I have my time codes right at the beginning because if you have bullet points and a Time code it does not support the time code so I just remove them very very easily and I do not put any links other than find the full show notes with our links to articles and things we talk about at our website that's literally what it is so I really short our show notes inside of YouTube because I'm not going to be spending the time of creating naked Links of all of theep of all of the things we talk about on the show it's not going to happen so I hope that was helpful uh send us some feedback if you need it and thanks so much for asking the question yay all right Switching gears here if you read my bio you'll see I'm someone that has produced podcast for two different presidential candidates back in the day and so keep that in mind in this next segment I think it's interesting that Trump is turning to podcasting to help his campaign he's appearing on multiple podcasts as guests Cala Harris on the other hand is not if Trump wins this election it will likely be his podcast appearances that pushed him over the Finish Line as he was able to get out to more independent listeners and people I think Camala Harris's team is doing a very poor job when it comes to podcasting if they don't want to have her a guest on a podcast I get that then get her her own podcast let her talk long form to the American people on her own show like Obama did when he ran for president back in 2008 time you know he actually started back in 2005 but get her out there come mid November we'll see whose strategy worked out better but right now it's very clear Trump's team has embraced podcasting and I'm not even sure if Harris's team knows what a podcast is just saying I think that they do but they're Center in Tik Tok and I would go kid I personally would do the same thing because I would just do that that's just me though it's just faster they could do her own long form podcast and they can edit it and get it the way they want it before they release it and I'm just again I'm very biased because I've worked on a couple people's presidential campaign you know as their podcast as they let up to it and I just think think they're missing an opportunity we we'll find out we'll come out see in mid November whose strategy was right but it's just a shame they haven't embraced podcasting uh all right so we have another bit of news here oh God yeah HW Tua girl good Lord yes see rolls eyes okay Haley Welch the HW Tua girl is launching a podcast called Talk TOA it will be on Logan Paul's Network shocker uh good good for her and congrats haey now I only bring this up because if you've ever seen the raw video of her very viral video the real talent I have to say are the guys that did the editing Tim Dickerson and Darius Marlo they did a great job on making that video that viral video matter of fact she wasn't even the primary person they were interviewing they were interviewing her friend and she kept popping her head in and then they took her popins and re-edited it I just want to say go see the original see how that compares to the edited so while she's getting a lot of the press I just wanted to give kudos to the folks that did the editing and if you do watch the original unedited video you'll see how talented they are as editors I mean almost Marshall Lucas type editing skills Kudos guys see I I mean not to bring up the past thing that you just mentioned but see this the hawk to a girl got a podcast because of the viral video and the fact that the video and the editing of the video is the one that went out real quick it that's the thing that got all the eyes on it and now there's a podcast that's a great strategy especially when there's like a small amount of time so that's what I'm thinking camela thinking about centering Tik Tok stuff and memes and things like that we'll get as much as reach as possible and then centering a podcast that will really ground that down that's all I'm saying I'm just saying Trump's team is hitting the podcast circuit I mean they're doing a lot they're hitting a lot of podcasts they're getting out there on multiple podcasts getting a lot of coverage on social on Tik Tok right no they're taking Clips I mean the clips the people are pulling out clips and and using those clips too but the point is you want to know the candidate his team is making it possible that is true and terms of like getting to know long form stuff correct all right so we have a little interesting service here that I just going to let you guys know about this is called pod. cards and it's like one of those landing pages type of a thing that a lot of people put up there all the time episodes. FM is like the same thing like this there's been so many of these that I go out but I'm just letting you all know because it's just kind of cute I love the UI of it you I believe you can get yours for free and you get a special little link that says pod. card SL and then you have your podcast name and it pops up a little player and you can play the podcast and you can make it look cute and you can have that be the link in your profile if you're on Instagram all of that stuff so anywho it is just very cute check it out and if you're using it let me know the feed lion.com and now a little bit of uh 20 a little a little audio feedback here from Terry hi I'm Terry I'm and host of video fuzzy and video fuzzy the soundtrack and I've got a a bit of foreign language Focus coming up on my uh music focus podcast and and my language is listed as English and I was just going to check how much of your podcast can be in a foreign language uh if you're listed in something cuz I was hoping to do my intro for that one in German uh so I basically just uh wanted to check in with you guys see if you had any inside thanks have a great day thank you Terry from what I understand how Apple Works where the issue comes in is if the language code that you choose is different than the show description for example if your language code was Portuguese and your description was written in Russian Apple has an issue with that they don't really care that if some EP episodes are English and some are Spanish and some are French and some are German they don't care about that you can have multiple episodes in different languages so you're not going to have you're not going to have any issue so if you want to in one of the episodes be German that's fine you that won't be an issue uh it's not going to get you kicked out anywhere and that that'll fine but again the issue comes down to what your language code is is listed as and what you have the description of the show what language that description is written in those two need to match up that's what Apple looks at especially when submitting a podcast I don't know what happens if you change that after it's already in I don't they probably don't do anything but at least in submitting you need to have those two in sync all right okay and we have let's see oh good lord this is yeah this is just another one of those look no the podcast Marketplace is not a $ 2.62 billion Marketplace in 2024 not even close anyone thinking so is completely clueless about the space but that is what a new report published by CMI with the title Global podcast Market 2024 growth opportunities and forecast says they even go on to say that the podcasting space will be a $35.1 billion industry in 2031 oh my god oh if you really stretch the space and look at everything I'm talking ad Revenue subscription Revenue hosting fees selling schwag Live Events equipment purchased maybe maybe just maybe you can get to five billion for 2024 and that's maybe that is stretching things I mean I went through and I tried to do that I tried to say okay how much it is if all these people are podcasting and if they buy equipment and they buy mics and they do this and that's again a big maybe but no way no how is it a $25.6 billion industry that is just stupid crazy talk and 135.4 that's smoking crack talk but be ready to likely see some articles referencing it shortly thanks guys oh my God I know oh well yes if our board of directors sees that article if you're a board director listening to this episode do ignore that it's not what the space is it's very frustrating all right we have a promo we do have a promo here we go this is our own new promo of the episode this is child care director's chair podcast hello you are listening to the child care director's chair podcast your host Erica sosio invites you to join her community of passionate and inspiring leaders in the ECE field where she discusses reflects and shares the best ways to invest in our children families teachers and Community because after all we know they are the heartbeat of any successful program all right thank you for being the good marketer this episode unlike the other two people whose promos didn't get in this episode because they're bad marketers and that is pretty much anybody who's listening whose promo didn't get played in this episode or a recent one so yes get LC or promos be good marketers don't be bad marketers always be marketing ABM ABM ABM okay all right all right let's get into lips and and stats and back to the first episode of the month and we'll talk about median and mean numbers to see how your measures up or your client show measured up the median and mean numbers are based on all episodes released on Lipson and Lipson Pro in the month of July with downloads measured until the end of August on average each file was about 45 days old this is again per shows hosted on Lipson and Lipson Pro all shows the media number for July was 128 it's up a smidge from June's 127 the adjusted mean average where I throughout the top half% and anything with three or less downloads the adjusted mean for July was 1141 that's up a bit from June was 1099 5.7% of all downloads for apps released in July were in the 5K range or greater for downloads it's a bit from June's 5.5% and here are some numbers to measure against uh and to put things in perspective if you're up are getting over 128 downloads after 30 days you're better than half the shows more than 500 you're better than 71.8% or you're in the top 28.2% of shows if you are getting more than a th000 you're better than 80% of shows more than 2600 you're better than 90% of shows more than 5,700 you're better than 95 more than 14,000 you're better than 98 and more than 26 Styles and you are better than 99% of the shows July's numbers were almost all up compared to June if they weren't up they were equal but overall almost all of them were up so good little increase there let's see how August comes out next month but um that was a nice increase and we are getting back now getting the numbers for Medi and mean correctly and speaking in numbers let's talk about cpms and Lipson ads team updated their monthly podcast advertising rates these rates which are denoted as cost per thousand CPM the data is derived from from actual sales data from across the thousands of podcasts in The Lipson ads Marketplace for August 2024 the average CPM rate for 62nd a spot was $21.25 this represents a minor decrease compared to the previous month CPM rate of 2193 in July the August 2024 rate was also marginally below the prior year CPM rate which was 2210 in August of 2023 the three highest CPM rate categories in August based on delivered advertising were government $29 technology $29 and health and fitness $24 the three categories where advertisers can effectively tap into highly engaged audiences at a more accessible rate include True Crime Sports and fiction with averages around the High Teens to low 20s in August average means average some shows had higher rates some lower RI rila Chief Revenue officer of libson said quote podcast advertising in August 2024 presents a pivotal opportunity for Brands and agencies to drive meaningful engagement with 88% of podcast audiences describing their listening experience as deeply meaningful the CPM rates underscore the tremendous value of reaching ATT tenative consumers listeners also feel a genuine intimate connection with podcasters in today to's multimedia landscape where 75% of audiences view podcasters as more influential than social media or entertainment figures this shift opens a significant opportunity for Brands the trust and intimacy that podcasters cultivate create a unique Bond positioning them as some of the most impactful creators of our time unquote thanks Rick and the rest of the team at lips and ads for keeping the space educated on aware average ad rates are for the podcasting space on a per ad read basis and of course if you aren't interested in advertising on a podcast maybe to promote your show to assol audience please email me directly Rob lion.com and I get you to the right people and Lipson ads can help you grow your show or sell your product or you know via podcast advertising again email me directly Rob lips.com if you're looking to advertise on other podcasts so where have we been you're catching up from being out at podcast movement it's always a a lot of catch up after one of those events oh my God yeah so that's we haven't really well there actually you know what we did do a very popular YouTube uh live event that Brian did it was called video editing for podcasters the Premiere Pro Edition if you want to see that you have to head over there I'll have a link in the show notes I completely forgot about that really really great highly suggest that you go check it out and um where are we going I mean let's look at it in two different places where are we going the rest of this year and then where are we going the beginning of next year uh so what's going on the rest of this year yes so this uh the rest of this year we're going to afro and audio and that is happening in October there will be a link in the show Nots for AF and audio as well you could still get tickets please get your tickets there there's a possibility I there we might be in over an advertis week which is also in October at the beginning of October for that so that is something to think through in terms of where libson is going to be I don't believe we're going to be anywhere else conference wise in that way and we got NAB Nab in Las Vegas I'm also for the in starting in early October as well I am going to be running my mentorship experience all right so folks if there's some shows that you think we should be at uh that we didn't mention let us know and hopefully you'll be at some of those shows that we just talked about uh Switching gears from where we're going um if you're looking for a job in podcasting so where you're going to go um make sure you go to podcasting jobs.com as of the beginning of September we had three openings listed uh two of which are remote and one is in Pittsburgh and I believe we're going to have another one posting coming up there soon so again go to podcasting jobs.com to learn more about those openings and then finally don't forget to send in your feedback for anything we did or did not mention on this episode you can record that feedback and email it to us thefeed lion.com or you can call us at 412 5731 1934 or you can use speakpipe at speak pipe.com thefeed well fantastic we will be chatting with y'all uh in a couple of weeks ciao bye [Music]