Episode 127: Oladapo and King Deep Dives and Third OTAs aka Secondary Depth Aplenty!

hello everyone and welcome back to the fatherson Packers podcast your source for Packers news notes and Analysis my name is Tommy and I'm joined as always by my co-host my dad Matt Dad how you doing I'm doing good coughing fits over for now so we're ready to roll yeah thankfully the coughing fit happened 5 seconds into our last recording because we didn't have to can too much yeah we just had try to mute mine so I could cough and then you and then you did at the same time well what happened was I got a major voice crack on the hello I did want did a full and then and then it kind of messed everything else up and then I just started hacking up a lung hacking up a hairball but anyway this run is going much better so far we'll see if we have to can this hairball hairball um but anyway today we are here to finish up the last of our Deep dive series on the Packers 2024 draft class we're going to be finishing up here with Katan oladapo and kin King couple of defensive backs the Packers added late day three if you like what you hear and want to hear even more deep Dives we've already done every other single draft prospect so if you go back and look you can hear episodes on Jordan Morgan Javon Bullard edine Cooper Evan Williams T Tyron Hopper etc etc etc we've done deep Dives already on all of the other Packers draft prospects we are finishing up today so if you like what you're he like we said go back check the feed and then also come give us a follow on Twitter fatherson Packer we tweet out whenever we have new episodes out and we're going to be doing an episode every single week during the offseason so keep it tuned to that we also tweet out you know stats and data from uh research for these episodes uh pieces of Packers news whether that's roster moves or injury notes um content from other Packers content creators that we find interesting uh or numbers from like you know the fantasy space always has really good numbers regarding like you know Packers receivers and Packers running backs and stuff so we'll be retweeting stuff like that if we find it interesting but pretty much you know One-Stop shopping for everything title town so go check that out once again it's fatherson Packer on Twitter and then subscribe on your podcast platform with Choice whether that's you know Apple podcast Google podcast Spotify we even put all our episodes out on YouTube If you excuse me if if you subscribe to us there it would really help us out but yeah Dad uh before we get into that deep dive though on oladapo and King we did have uh the final open day of OTA practice the third one the third of three um so we have a bit of news a bit of notes it was a you know I think a slightly more competitive practice than some of the other OTAs that had been open but still not a lot in terms of notes a couple injury updates though to go over um the first thing though is attendance wise all 91 players were accounted for so that's awesome uh Elton Jenkins Preston Smith and ran Gary had missed the last one but they were present for this one and then you know besides a couple you know players obviously not always participating some injuries off to the side um but everyone was there which is a really awesome development in terms of injury updates uh Jer was actually sitting out uh he was on the exercise bike but for some reason we did not get you know any questions about to the floor about that or anything else about that apparently nobody asked the question um afterwards about what the to me yeah isn't that strange it's like normally it's the first first thing asked is when a major player is missing time it's like the first thing asked is like oh yeah Jer saw Jer was on the side how's he doing da D he's he's dealing with this but we didn't get any updates there so all we can really say is he was off to the side he was on the exercise bike um another update is LVN was back practicing with a wrap on his thumb after breaking as Matt laflor said just the tip of his thumb um so he is back out there which is good to see you know a player going into their second year it's good for them to maximize their practice time and then the other thing was Zack Tom um who was dealing with that torn PEC was practicing with the rehab group um so he is at least you know progressing and hopefully going to be ready by training camp um I also think oladapo was out of his walking boot according to match yes exactly and I I was like like do we save that for when we're doing the Deep dive on oladapo do we talk about true I even went out of order my own notes because I put that in there down with the oladapo notes like but you know I'm I'm I'm winging it yeah I'm I mean you know just let it fly Let it Fly everybody duck yes so but that's pretty much the main updates on the injury report side um Tucker craft still not practicing a few other players still not practicing most of the other ones are the same as the previous otaa practices um Alex Meo came back and then also had to leave again unfortunately so it's going to be tough for him to you know crack that rotation of wide receivers um but Dad it's time for us to play our favorite game big deal little deal no deal uh with OTA um notes so we each picked you know a couple things that we thought found interesting from the practices and we're going to see what the other one thinks about them Dad what's your first big deal little deal no deal from OTAs so my first one is Morgan starting it right tackle ahead of Dillard uh I would say this is No Deal um I would hope he's ahead of you know a vet I would hope that at this point a first rounder is ahead of a vetman guy um so I I think this is just a natural progression in my opinion which like this is kind of you know a benchmark you should be hitting at this point so to Me Maybe little deal I guess you know he's he's checking call a deal because it because it actually means something it's true he's checking the boxes you want him to see so I I'll say little deal I I'll upgrade to little deal because you know it I I would think it would be a bigger deal if he wasn't already ahead of Dillard you know what I'm saying that's that's kind of how I feel about it yeah yeah but it's the first one where I think open to the public where they've seen him start at right tackle and and Dillard was not in the starting lineup at all this time yeah it's interesting uh to me just because also I don't think it's as much of a deal because I think that right Tackle Spot is kind of spoken for so I I think because I think it's Zack Toms pretty much it's neither one of them exactly I was like I don't think either of them are getting that right tackle job so it's like okay you guys who's who's placeholder for the actual starter at right tackle today was kind of more of what it is to me unless they true unless they really want to end up moving Tom to Center but I think with him missing all of OTAs in most of the offseason I think a move to Center becomes less and less likely wouldn't you agree yes okay you ready for mine sure uh Kenny Clark not participating in the full speed 11 on 11s big deal little Deal or No Deal so he's participating in like some of the walk through stuff yeah right so he's participating in some of the walkr stuff just just for the listeners he's participating in some of the walkthrough stuff he's participating in you know individual drills he's there he's present these are optional activities but he's not participating in the 11 on 11s so so what what do you think big deal little deal no deal yeah so yeah this the starting interior defensive lineman this week were Slayton and wide I think before it had been Slayton and and Clark for the first one but I don't think he participated in the second maybe also not him last week either yeah I don't know what to make of it so I can't tell what kind of deal is what what's going on here they just want to get different combination I think they just want to get different combinations out there and see what it looks like I don't I don't think it me anything so so no deal I'm going I'm going I'm going no deal on this one do you think I obviously the only thing can mean anything is contract that's the the only thing I wanted to say was like do you think there's any chance that it I I mean we're wildly speculating which is you know one of my favorite things to do but do you think it has anything to do with cuz we had heard a little bit earlier in the offseason that they were talking already with him a little bit about a contract you know extension do you think this has anything to do with that he's only 28 years old so while Packers usually don't give out third contracts to players it would be a bit of an exception given his age like it makes sense it's not like he's 30 so do you think do you think it has anything to do with that are we just there's no way of knowing maybe it's one of those there's no way of knowing things I think there's no way of knowing I mean he's there at practice participating which makes you think it's a little less likely to be a contract if he wasn't showing up then you say oh maybe it's a contract issue but he's there and he's doing some drills but not others yeah that part hard to reconcile maybe it's as simple as like all right Kenny like we know what you got you're you're almost 30 we're going to let you take it easy or maybe he's like nursing something and small and and it's just they don't want him going 100% who knows but I so you're saying little Deal or No Deal I forget I'm going to say No Deal okay I think they're just trying to look at different combinations of the players out there all right so what's your what's your next one I'll go with multiple quarterbacks reported to have tight coverage in drills Stokes on Watson King on Watson Valentine on Heath uh I'm going to say little deal um you know at this stage in Camp the offseason like program it's usually normal for the defense to be ahead of the offense but at the same time the offense is mostly returning all of their pieces and running the same system while as the defense is learning everything new and has a lot more new pieces to incorporate so I would definitely say at least a little deal it's definitely you know I would say a good sign because I think you know a lot of us feel confident in the offense and confident with what they have there but the question mark is more of the defense and the Special Teams but we're not talking about that today that today um but for the defense I think it's just good to see like okay proof of concept like they have the corners to play Man coverage they have the secondary guys to play Man coverage and they're succeeding in man coverage against like pretty talented group of wide receivers so yeah I I would say I would say little deal what do you what do you think about it nice little deal I think it's uh you know it's a good sign yeah yeah exactly and and at this stage of the offseason nothing is really more than that like it's I I don't know what would have to happen for big deal I mean obviously KnockOn would but like for big deal to really come out so I yeah I agree I agree um okay that leaves me with uh my last one huh yeah okay who do you got uh AJ Dylan looking spelt in practice looking looking lighter looking leaner this too because he's the best shape he's ever been in ofab is it mandatory to have one of these in every big deal little deal I don't know he's got he's got new teeth he's got he's looking a little he's got new teeth yeah he got some veneers in um I did not he I did not see the thing about he's I I didn't I didn't see a picture of him of his face you know just that's all the tweets about how he's looking smelt but but also jacked his arms are bigger he's looking skinnier he's looking more more explosive so big deal little deal no deal I know this is your favorite type of offseason talk best best shape of his life he's looking like a whole new player cuz they say it every year about like half the players I know they do but he actually you agree he actually does look skinnier right like to me I I not he's noticeably thinner to me yeah one thing I haven't what I would like to have seen is like some uh more movement see how how it's actually translating okay so you're saying No Deal you're saying no deal until you can see I'll say little deal I'll give you a little deal so the the Packers third running back looking slightly skinnier than he did last year we got a we got a little deal awesome sweet at least it matters matters about this much way up who has two thumbs and has lost 10 pounds um but anyway so that has concluded our OTA you know coverage um this time of year uh it's really awesome thank you to all of the you know Packers beat reporters who tweet out all this information who keep us informed you know shout out to them it's very awesome for those of us who are you know really feeling the withdrawal from football season this time of year and could use any little nugget of information that they can get so anyway thank you to all the Packers beat reporters for going out there in the Heat and and keeping us informed um but Dad should we move on to the Deep dive portion and start talking about katano ladapo yes before I start like going completely off rails and just talking about whatever I see popup trending on my Twitter feed right now I was going to say that's a that's a dangerous place to be right now um but anyway so starting off with the first of our deep Dives today is Katan oladapo uh Packers took him in the fifth round 169th overall a little bit about him from Dane Bugler's guide the Beast uh he's 23 years old um he was a preferred walk- on at Oregon State so you know they wanted him there but they weren't going to give him a a scholarship or anything so that's you know that's something he had to earn his spot um he's known for changing his hair color game to game so that'll probably be you know make him a bit of a fan favorite I'm sure and he was second Team all Pack 12 his final year at Oregon State um what was your initial reaction when they made this pick or is there something you want to thr throw to his bio about how he seems to embrace rivalries and is a loyal Oregon State player at meaning yes he and Oregon do not get along no no they do not U but Dad what was your initial thought when they uh made this pick so my first thought was it was good to add safety with a different profile than the others on the team he's significantly better than the bigger than the other safeties and may add a different style play particularly being able to play as a box safety yeah my initial reaction was like this was someone that I had had my eye on as a late round like flyer among safeties um so definitely someone that I was happy they took I think he can be you know a plus special teamer right away um just given his size and his linear athleticism and then I think that you know he was the type of guy who was like oh like there aren't really that many like safeties that are this big coming out like he looks large out there when you see him out there for Oregon State um and so I was really excited about it uh I think you know he moves well for that size he's not like an elite mover but he moves well for his size um good hustle player everything about him sounds you know exciting and so my initial reaction was like oh yeah like that was a guy that I wanted them to take a look at and you know it seems like a good addition there in the late fifth round um but Dad uh speaking about you know some of that athleticism do you want to take us through his uh physical profile and you know how he measured out compared to other safeties right so just to go through the process again I get the all the meas struments in athletic ability from Ras or draft scout and mock draftable getting the percentiles of where where they fall from Ras except for hand um size arm length and wingspan which I get for mock draftable I also pick up whatever else I can like he was he was in the Senior Bowl so we have some onfield speed tracking from the zebra tech there and so for that and he was below average at on field speed 40 out of 60 safeties that have had have on field speed data from the last whatever it was 60 years 60 safeties separated out the defensive backs into safeties and Corners I did not however do kind of a mass correction so yeah know yeah speed speed um see how much uh um what's what's the momentum looking like mass times velocity um nor did I and so then is Max acceleration is kind of similar 36 out of 60 just a little bit below average and his max deceleration is almost right around so his how how quickly he stop he's like middle of the pack yeah which you know to be middle of the pack at his size is you know reasonably impressive yeah he's almost the bigest you know some some of the linebackers now and I think that that would be an interesting way to deploy him is you know some people you know coming out of the draft saw him as more of a dime linebacker but sorry I interrupt you continue yeah so his um overall Ras is 8.18 so that it's like 80 you know 8 second percentile his top comp on Ras is Marcus Washington who was a sixth round pick of New England in back in 1999 overall he's a little bigger a little slower and a little you know than than Green Bay's average um safety on Gans and his you know for his size he's got for amongst safeties he's got 92 percentile height at 6'2 which is one and a half inches above Green Bay's average he's got 96 percentile weight um at 216 pounds 10 pounds more than than Green Bay's average safety he's a he's a big safety he is he is large for a safety and he looks large out there yeah his hands are nine and a quar inches which puts him at uh only the 44th percentile a little bit below average but it's basically right on Green Bay average his arms are 32 and 38 in long um one inch more than Green Bay average and at 76 percentile so decent amount above average for arm length and his wingspan is 76 and 78 of an inch uh 63rd percentile among safeties one inch bigger than green base average so you know generally a pretty big pretty big safety compared to Green Bay and to you know the last whatever 20 years of safeties mhm um now for his athleticism he's got a 62 percentile 40 which at 4.58 which is pretty good at being one of the 90th percentile in in uh height and weight 06 seconds slower than Green Bay's average safety 55th percentile of the 20 yard split at 2.66 .04 slower than Green Bay average and 70th percentile in the 10 yard split 1.58 which is basically right on Green Bay's average which kind of thing I like I like those 10 yard splits yeah it's what you're doing more often than not yeah and then and that's where he's best um in terms of his speed and the fact that the 10 yard split is right on bang on average and he's you know substantially larger than the average Green Bay safety is that I mean that's definitely something yeah he's uh he did the bench is 60 percentile with 15 bench reps which is actually two less than Green Bay's average um 71 percentile in the vert at 36 in right on Green Bay's average and 37 percentile in the broad so a little below average on the broad at 9' 9 in which is 7 inches less than Green Bay's average so and he didn't do any agilities I can't say that I'm surprised that he did not do any agilities no offense but that that does not feel like it would have been great for it would not have improved his R is what I'm going to say in my opinion based on based on the tape he's just a really long linear guy he's got long legs I don't think the three would have of like tarq Vibe do you get uh I like him more than I liked carpenter carpenter was like really just a linebacker like he was he was just a linebacker and special teamer I think oladapo like can actually play a little safety yeah Carpenter even though they list him as both um safety linebacker he was much bigger um yeah he was like 230 something right like he was like 230 yeah he was like he was really just a linebacker pretty much I don't I don't think they ever really saw him as a safety so then one thing I did so always I'm always looking for upside how was like how much can we dude ourselves to thinking that all of our players are the best ever I can so how does it compare to there's no limit to that right it's like year round hopium oh yeah especially in the offseason I could I can talk myself into any single one of these guys being you know serviceable to very good that's the thing like coming into last year I was deluding myself into the HM was like oh Carl Brook like he's going to be a great hey they had a really good first year so he was really good I'm just I'm just saying I'm not saying but anyway sorry continue so how does uh oladapo compare to All Pro safeties from the last 10 years um so you know I do kind of what I what I've always done here is I get their kind of optimal score so what traits seem to matter the most and what I've decided now is to look for the the physical or athletic traits for which it's more likely to be elite than below average and so I got all the pro all the All Pro safeties from 2014 to 2023 which gave me 25 players got their optimal Ras based on either prod day or um combine measurements would ever gave him the best possible ra Ras and getting Pro Day data a lot of times from draft scout if it wasn't already in the RAS and mock draft R for the hand arm and wingspan measurements so what measurements seem to matter amongst these all Pros so what are the most common so the most the most the ones that matter the most were speed especially 40 time and then also three cone and overall Ras um if you look at the um so those three so the three cone the 40 time and the overall Rass were the like biggest you know thing in common amongst these the allros in terms of having Elite in those traits especially so if you look at the 40 time you had 11 players who had an elite 40 so that's over 80 percentile and only one who was below average so that's like were looking at a sample of how many was it again 15 25 okay so 11 of the 25 lot a lot of them were in the middle sort of between 50 and 80% what's like the yellow the good range only one had a bad 40 time only one had a bad 40 time that was actually huanga yeah which is interesting because that's the kind of you know scheme that the Packers are going to be playing which is you know something just to just to think about but and then and then in the uh the short like the 20 there's like seven Elite only two in the poor and then for the uh the three cone you had what do we get like 13 Elite to five in the poor yeah although it doesn't really matter as much for oladapo since you know we don't have the short shuttle in three cone unfortunately right but we you know that we can just imagine that he did well in them and then we'll he'll uh he'll fit right so what what measurements don't seem to matter size if anything shorter was better and weight was irrelevant um you have had more players who are like below average height than than you know Elite height Elite you know as measured as being more um the bench didn't matter short shuttle didn't matter and like hand size didn't matter those were all you're just as just as many players were poor or below average as were Elite for those measurements yeah at risk of um derailing this into one of those you know guys talk about old like athletes and start naming old athletes conversations I'm trying to remember the last like really big like good safety like the last safety that was just like really large obviously the first one that pops in my mind is Cam Chancellor but there has to have been one since then that was like a really large safety that was like putting up all Kyle Hamilton is weighs 220 okay well that would be the one he's 64 he really 64 220 he always looks so like thin to me like I know he's tall but I never thought he his measur yeah 64 and a quarter 220 so if you're looking for a big safety recent safety who's looking good he's the one that's probably the best safety in the league so you know oladapo you know just whatever he's doing copy that um but anyway sorry continue and Derwin James weighs 215 he's yeah but he's not as like tall and long as uh you know Hamilton or ol Ado yeah but Hamilton is kind of the the poster child for the big the elite big safety right now yeah um so how does oladapo compare these you know the All Pro safeties for these the measurements that seem to matter so kind of lining him up he would be like 10th out of 25 in overall Ras 23rd in the 40 so near the bottom and he didn't do a three cone so those those are the it's kind of like well he's not disqualified the 40 's a little bit low to to be in the group yeah and we have no idea what he would have done in the three cone whether he also would have been kind of at the bottom I I don't think he would have done amazing in the three cone obviously we'll give him the benefit of the doubt but I just his build and the way he plays I don't think he's would have done done amazing in the agilities and that's probably why he didn't run yeah one thing that's interesting to me is that there seems to be a little bit more you know possibility for the three cone to matter than for the shuttle yeah which is you know I guess makes some sense you know you're turning more in spaces of safety than you are like planning and stopping and changing directions but I don't know I feel like those you would think that those two tests would be correlated and maybe if we got this up to like a 100 players something if yeah true we're we're working with small sample size we're still working with small sample sizes and then um so that's kind of where he lines up in terms of uh how he compares to other players other Packer players successful players yeah and successful All Pro players his injury history history he's currently you know out with a broken toe that happened during the combine so maybe would I don't know when in the combine that happened maybe some of his numbers were affected true and maybe that's why he didn't that's probably why he didn't run agilities is like to be fair that's like one of the last things at like the end of the day and and often times yeah I was going to say often because they're doing it late tired exactly and I was going to say often times uh teams players end up running the agilities at their Pro days but if you break your toe at the combine you're not going to be able to run agility he never did a pro day right exactly um but in college he was very durable he played in all 13 games his last three years at Oregon State yeah and you know the broken toe was something he said you know happened in the process teams knew about it and you know he still went late late fifth round so you wonder like if without that you know injury flag would he have maybe gone even earlier hard to know um but yeah so he's certainly an interesting you know physical profile in terms of his size and still being you know pretty fast at that size um but yeah D anything else that you wanted to talk about on that physical profile side before we talk about you know how his production fared in college no I think I covered all the all the bases there I had to do some quick lookup to get some percentiles I forgot to write down in the middle of that Amateur hour Amateur hour right there not having everything WR down it's like o there's a blank spot there what the heck did I do there I saw I saw just percentile written and then I was like oh that's what he's looking at I was like I was like what are you clicking at I actually looked at those numbers I did not I did not make up those numbers in the middle of the podcast I actually looked up those numbers well speaking of numbers that we looked up um some numbers per PFF uh for his time at Oregon State when he was in college so he didn't I just want to preface all this with he did start playing safety until college and this is um according to Dane bruger's uh the Beast which is you know excellent resource um he was a corner coming into organ State and he made that transition from corner to safety his red shirt year so just keep that in mind uh when looking at that um in general I do think he's like you know with his usage at Oregon State a lot more versatile than people are necessarily giving him credit for you know a lot of people are like oh he's a box safety only he's pretty much a dime linebacker is what some people are saying but you know in 2023 um he spent 37% of his time in the Box 22% of his time deep and 35% of his time in the slot so a really pretty even split obviously more time in the Box than anywhere else but you know he's playing a lot of different places he's showing some versatility at the college level and in 2022 is very similar 34% of his snaps in the Box 37% deep and 25% in the slot so he's getting use a lot of different places in that orgon state defense and so you know maybe that projects to you know a variety of ways he could be used at the NFL level and that he won't NE necessarily need to be pigeon hold into you know just this one role he's done a lot of different things in his time in college um in 2023 uh looking at a subset of 492 qualifying safeties so these are players who played Safety and then played a significant number of snaps where it's like okay we can actually decide how good you are um so 492 players in 2023 amongst those he ranked 123rd in yards per coverage snap of 492 so you know upper like upper 75th percentile 70th percentile in yard per coverage snap which is a number that we really like because you know yards per Target is a good number for you know hey how are you doing when they're you're getting thrown at but yards per coverage snap kind of captures the idea that hey the best coverage guys are not getting thrown at very much so it kind of captures that idea as well you're getting essentially a benefit for times that you're not getting targeted so he was 123rd in yards per cover snap of those 492 which is a solid number he was 15th in yards per Target of those safeties which is also a pretty good number you know upper like you know 75th 80th per there um you know that means that when he was getting thrown at he was doing a good job of you know making plays on the ball he was 142nd in Miss tackle rate so still above average but not you know an amazing number but above average there and he was 143rd in stop rate which is you know essentially the number of stops you make per run uh run snap um and that a stop is defined by PFF as any tackle that constitutes a failure for the offense so you know he's above average in stop rate he was uh for what it's worth I don't put like a super ton of stock into PFF grades but it is another of like another data point in terms of you know when you know a certain number of people who watch a lot of football watch him play how good do they think he's playing and that is certainly useful data to have it's not the end all Beall but it's useful data but he was the fifth highest graded safety in all of college football per PFF um and he was the fourth highest graded safety in run defense by PFF um amongst FBS and FCS safeties with at least 240 snaps um so he was really highly graded against the Run he was really highly graded overall per PFF and a lot of his you know underlying numbers there are well above average and well within what you would want to see in terms of what Scouts had to say about him uh Dane Brugler had him his his 11th safety with a fourth or fifth round grade uh quote a three-year starter at Oregon state oladapo was a versatile safety and defensive coordinator Trent Bray's hybrid 335 stack a former walk- on at corner he transitioned to Safety in Corvalis and earned all Pack 12 honors each of the last three seasons oladapo confidently reads run pass and aggressively drives downhill with competitive urgency to make impactful tackles his average twitch and buildup speed out of transitions will be more noticeable versus NFL receivers but his route awareness helps him stay connected and coverage overall oladapo doesn't have ideal top end speed or rangy ball skills for deep coverage but he is a good-sized athlete who trusts his sight lines and enjoys making noise in the Run game he projects best as a down safety who can also earn his paycheck on special teams and then Lance zerine of nfl.com had him as a fourth rounder quote oladapo possesses classic strong safety traits and play attributes which should help evaluators Define him more easily he has very good size with the play strength and toughness to tackle near the box and enough cover skills to line up over tight ends in man while you can place split safety he can be a little inconsistent in Big's face so playing forward is his best bet there is room for improvement as a tackler but he generally pursues with leverage and takes his role as last line of defense to heart he has quote make it end quote size and tributes he's likely to come in as a backup with special team duties but has a a pretty good shot of becoming an eventual starter and his comp was jisy tart the longtime Niners uh safety who is you know also you know bigger safety um but d That's What Scouts had to say about him what did the Packers have to say about him when they took him when they drafted him yes so I was able to find a quote from John Eric Sullivan the VP of player Personnel via Paul brle found this at ESPN lacrosse.com and what he said was he's a little different body type than the other two meaning uh the other two safeties Bullard and Williams he's a big 62 216 pound kid long arms aggressive when he hits you you go down he's a very good athlete at that size he can pedal he can flip he can turn he's versatile more of a true safety but he can play that big nickel or or will linebacker if you need him to the play style he's very smart cap he's a captain as well one good football player one good football player and two the kind of person we want to infuse in this locker room yeah and that's just that's exactly what you want to hear and that's awesome to hear um but yeah so that's what the scouts had to say about him that's what the Packers had to say about him dad what did you overall think after you know taking some time to watch him and what were your final thoughts and you know break out after looking at these numbers after looking at his production after watching him a little bit what were your final thoughts on oladapo so one thing I saw in like going through some of his highlights is he makes plays on the ball and particularly he's looking to force fumes he's he's swinging and punching at the ball a lot while he's tackling and something he did successfully on several occasions and with Green Bay being 30th in the League last year in fumbles Force you know this is a skill set they could definitely use yeah they need more activity around the ball you know they didn't have like any turn they were one of the worst teams in in terms of uh forcing turnovers last year in the league so having a guy who's you know willing to make players on the ball is a is a would be a big get for me after watching oladapo I watched their game against Washington and I watched the game against or no I watched the game against Arizona and Washington were the two I watched like in depth for him um for me you know uh he is a very linear athlete his turning is not amazing like uh like once he's going somewhere it's hard for him to you know really stop and turn um I thought the Arizona game was you know kind of a struggle for him he did not play great in that game but he was much better in um against Washington but just by my eye um that's just my opinion uh he did have one awesome rep against Arizona where he slowed down um McMillan you know this is the one that you see posted a lot I think Ben fennel posted it I think Andy Herman posted it um where McMillan who's going to be like a highly thought of receiver in next year's draft class for Arizona goes in the speed motion from right to left and oladapo is screaming at someone else to pick up the assignment but they just don't hear him and so he's forced to you know run with him and cover him coming back across the motion and and does a really good job he probably grabs him a little bit but it does a good job breaking him up at the catch Point um overall though I thought he struggled at times with like when things started happening behind him I thought he struggled to get like sufficient depth in his like deep zones um there's one where like they're playing cover two and he just like triggers down on a a Crosser across the middle that honestly is covered and then just the guy just goes into the vacated Zone behind him for a big play um the one play against Washington that really stands out is uh I forget the Washington running back's name but he breaks away and this is the one you see a lot in a lot of Clips as well where he chases him down from behind and punches the ball out which is you know obviously what you want to see that's the one like within the F like around the yard line exactly yeah where he chases him down from behind punches it out it's a massive play um and it just shows you know everything that he's about in terms of hustle High character a some like straight line speed in terms of you chasing him down from behind when he's way outside of the you see the speed he's he's hunting him down like he is he is chasing him down and like the speed shows up there yeah and it's not like he was beat on the play person because he was in coverage on another guy and came off of him when the Run play goes up the middle and chases him down and punches the ball out from behind yeah which is you know I think that's like the high upside in terms of you know hustle player like going to make physical plays he his size shows up too like you see him out there you you can immediately tell who he is because he's like clearly like a lot bigger than every other defensive back on the Oregon State roster um but so yeah my overall thought um I think he's going to be a good special teamer I worry about him you know playing deep zones um I worry about him playing you know that more traditional like cover two safety I I just think like the times he struggle to get depth um and struggle to turn and run with guys sometimes um but overall I think there's definitely a role for him on Green Bay um Dad any last things you wanted to or should we move on to Kin King yeah I would just say I think we can expect him to play his best and he's like closer to the line of scrimmage yeah then deep which is interesting because I kind of feel the same way about Evan Williams as well um so I I wonder you know how they're going to deploy these safeties although apparently Evan Williams and Bullard have been you know moving around a lot but anyway that's not who we're talking about today but let's move on to Kin King uh cornerback out of Penn State who the Packers took in the seventh round 255th overall so almost right there Mr relevant r ranged little bit about him he is only 21 years old and he won't turn 22 until January so that means he was born for those of you who trying to feel really old he was born in 2003 um so just keep that in mind he's going to be one of the younger players in the league this year uh he was second Team all big 10 last year and second team allamerican the year before um so just that's a little bit about him very young player a player who was really good two years ago was a guy who I'm sure everyone here who has heard this already but he was a guy who a lot of people were projecting as a first round pick um and then you know via combination conversation for like number one corner in the class exactly yeah he was he was great at Penn State the year prior with you know Joey Porter across from him maybe it's you know he's having to go against more ones and that was why but some kind of combination of you know not having the best 2023 2024 season and then really struggling on the you know pre-draft like phase in terms of you know he struggled at the Senior Bowl he didn't test very well kind of a combination of all of that kind of crashed him down to the seventh round but is the type of player where you know if that all that stuff had gone well for him he wouldn't have been available in the seventh round for the Packers so that's something to keep in mind dad what was your initial reaction when the Packers took King uh at this spot yeah so I basically you thought he was potential steal in the seventh round at a position where they needed more depth and maybe it won't work out but it's definitely worth a shot and he is if you saw his interview after super motivated and emotional after his fall in the draft Yeah Yeah my my initial reaction is very similar to yours it's like hey they needed more corners I am totally down for the like hey the previous year was better bet like they similar to how they did with Davian Wix where it's like hey two years ago this guy was awesome this past year we don't know what happened it didn't go great but we're willing to bet that he's going to have a return to form and kind of you know betting on that almost as like a market inefficiency where it's like hey if he had had a great year this year we would never have been able to get him here but so let's just pretend that doesn't happen and didn't happen and just see what happens it's the rounder anyway who cares um we're taking I know if you remember like kind of early in the process before um the combine people had him mocked to the Packers in the second round yeah I mean I'm not going to lie I remember you know watching him at the Senior Bowl and being like Oh my goodness this guy is really like my my reaction initial reaction was like oh it's a seventh rounder it doesn't matter but I remember watching him at the Senior Bowl being like oh goodness this guy can't play he's getting beat by every single receiver out here and so I was I was remember I watched those Senior Bowl one-on ones like pretty diligently because I was interested in the corner class and I remember like oh there kin King he's getting is getting beat again he like oh oh man this kin King is way off of his guy and he's getting beat again and I was like oh man this is a really struggle for this guy like like the fact that he obviously we're going to be talking about the positives as well but this was part of the reason he fell is because you know the Senior Bowl did not go well for him testing didn't go well for him but I remember at the Senior Bowl thinking like oh man like he stood out because of how much he was struggling like that's and that's not ideal that so that's part of my initial reaction um but obviously you know when you're taking a player this late they're not going to be a perfect Prospect so I do think it was a good pick it was a place where they needed more depth I think he can play on the inside which is obviously a spot that I think that they can improve um but yeah so let's talk a little bit about him though dad and you know like I said he struggled a little bit in the in the testing how did he you know compare to Packers players all Pros is there hope for him uh let us know how his um you know physical profile matches out right so I I went through the same process as all the rest of the players in terms of uh getting their speed you know whatever whatever testing or measurements were available from Ras do foot or draft scout and calculating the optimal Ras on using the the RAS calculator tool on on the RAS site and and then also looking at where where else we could get numbers so he was at the Senior Bowl as you mentioned and so his onfield speed measurements he's actually his maximum speed was a little above average at 30th out of 75 um Corners who have been there had measurements taken the last six0 years I think it's in 2018 11th out of 75 in Max acceleration so he's in the kind of the elite range there in Max acceleration 85th percentile but below average in Max deceleration so his stopping ability now some of this like maybe the I should say about these measurements at the Senior Bowl maybe it's not a big enough sample size to see people actually get to their TR Max um in these plays or not but yeah but I do think I do think onfield Data Tracking data is where the sport is trending because I think you know sure just as I think the teams have stuff that you that they have you know they're exactly it that we never hear yeah and I think five to 10 years from now I think it I think a lot of the you know it's tough because you know the 40 yard dash the three cone the short shuttle etc etc etc they have a larger you know piece of like his you have more historical data to compare against but I think five to 10 years from now I think it's going to be all onfield tracking for like you know speed measurements and stuff like that because that's really what matters and it's gonna be on you know all onfield tracking with video data yeah that's true I think computer need to have any and that's the way that you can you can and that's the way that you can skirt this idea of needing you know a larger historical sample because if you can use computer vision to measure this kind of speed and stuff like that then you can use it on any video ever and you will have like a larger historical sample of dat for sure going to happen or is this actually it's probably probably already happened yeah it's already happening for sure um but anyway so looking now looking at his Ras score I took his best results because he definitely improved some things in his pro day so if you looked at just his combine his Ras is like 6.68 still not bad it's still in the good um but he he was able to improve his like speed and his agility a bit with his prod day um so with that he get got at 8.14 using his best results to draft so that gets even into the the great SL Elite green green level but still overall um significantly less than Green Bay's average um which is like 0.8 less than Green Bay's average Ras or the RAS of Green Bay's average corner of like 8.94 for his size he's in this he's 62 percentile height 511 and a quar half an inch less than Green Bay's average 61 percentile weight 191 pounds four pounds less than Green Bay's average and we've heard a lot about how Green Bay doesn't like to take smaller Corners especially per weight 20th percentile in hands small hands eight 8.75 inches half an inch less than Green Bay's average 29 percentile arm length 3.875 in half an inch less than green base average and 27 percentile wingspan 74 and a qu 1 and a half inches less than green base average so his athleticism if we take his Penn State prod day which was reported at 4.52 in the 40 he's at 63rd percentile in the 40 which is significantly better than his 4.61 um 40 at the combine but it's still even with the the pro day it's still 05 seconds slower than Green Bay average his 53rd percentile 20 yard split of 2.64 seconds was 0.04 um seconds slower than green base average now his 10 yard split was his best thing which at the NFL.com combine site reported as a 1.54 which is 83rd percentile in the 10 yard split and 0.1 seconds faster than Green Bay average that was his kind of most elite testing trait um he didn't do a bench he was 76 percentile in the vert 37 inch half an inch better than Green Bay's average 64 percentile in the broad jump at 10 feet 2 inches three inches wor three inches worse than Green Bay's averages so that's something they've cared about is the broad and 81 percentile in the short shuttle at 4.14 06 seconds better than GRE base average he didn't do a three cone so then again how do this compare not just to so we've done the Green Bay comparison how does this compare to the all proo Corners so first what what measurements matter so from the last 10 years got 34 Corners um got their you know optimal testing scores as as we did before and the r scores based on that and I I did a little bit of trying to separate like slot corners from boundary Corners so I what I did is I got there yeah there there is the thought that you know Kalin King is going to be a slot at the next level and it's interesting because he didn't really he actually played almost no slot at all at Penn State but some people are projecting you know with him running a slower 40 and you know not necessarily having these top end speed that maybe you know working in like the inside with a tighter space might be better for him so that's that's why we were thinking maybe looking at just the slot Corners yeah so what I did is I I got the percentage of snaps at corner um from slot versus a boundary so I kind of threw away the Box snaps orep snaps so like lined up I just just looking at only as as corner and figured out which players actually had um played more than half the snaps in the slot and I only got four out of those so they definitely is a a bias towards boundary Corners in the all pro teams yeah Mak sense but you know so but those four are not outliers compared to the rest um in terms of their athletic identical the 4020 and 10 the 20 and 10 are actually identical for the averages those four compared to the rest um they're those those slot Corners were um light three pound three and half pounds lighter an inch and a half shorter yeah marginally smaller mostly physically the same marginally smaller but not actually slower but again this is a very small sample size of slot Corners um so there's nothing really you could say that he's more like a slot corner or more like a boundary Corner looking at these small sample of All Pro these top level guys yeah so then let's look at the group as a whole what measurements seem to matter overall Rass was important 18 were Elite and only two were poor and those the ones who were poor I think were from further back 2016 and 2014 um little further to go to to get those poor Ras scores size mattered especially weight um 16 Elite to only three below average in in weight for corners but though height also matters 17 were Elite in height and only six rep report this is kind of opposite where we had you might for some of the other positions like I think offensive offensive tackle better to be short yeah better to beor yeah Corner better to be taller um speed was important for the 40 there were you know 16 Elite to only five poor and in the 10 there were 18 Elite only four that were poor so maybe even a little bit more important at the 10 yard uh split and the broad jump mattered 17 were leite and only four were poor measurements that don't seem to matter vertical um the short shuttle and the three cone I'll have the similar frequency of below average and Elite so none of those seem to matter at least in this in this uh sample size that was a little bit surprising so compared to these all pro corners for the measurements that seem to matter kayen king would have been 19th out of the 32 in Ras 16th out of 31 in the 10 yard split 27th out of 33 in the 40 and that's what his better for time that's that's the that's the main conc if you demand the combine then he would have been last yeah um 23rd out of 30 in the broad so significant below average in the broad and he is also the 10th shortest Corner in the group and the and the seventh uh heaviest so one of the lighter ones as well yeah small and slow is a little scary it's definitely a little scary you know looking doing this SE also you do see where some of you know the Packers Tendencies come from they don't want Corners below a certain threshold threshold in weight and that shows up in the all Pros as well yeah they need to be they need to be certain side size to play it's true so that's his profile so he's got some limitations compared to the best cor not surprisingly if he had tested like one of the best corners then he would have been a first rounder he wouldn't have he wouldn't have been seventh rounder from a year ago so that looked like so injury history I try to go to injur history this a funny note uh I just Googled kin King injury and my top hit was kin King has a permanent chip on his shoulder from falling in the draft oh okay all right I I thought it was like gonna be literally no not not like a not like a bone chip no it was he has a permanent chip on his shoulder from following of the draft was the number one hit for injury because in his last series he played 13 games 13 games and 12 games in his career at Penn State so basically little or no mistime um to injury to at Penn State yeah but that and that's awesome um so that's good for his time at Penn State just transitioning a little to his production profile and how he played there um as most of you who have you if you haven't heard about kayin king the big you know the big story about him is he was great in 2022 and not so great in 2023 um so comparing those two years with some data per PFF in 2023 well you know let's start with 2022 in 2022 compared to a sample size of 507 Corners who you know played enough snaps um and also played Corner um he was 195th in yards per coverage snap so above well above average and given the fact that he was going against you know some of the better receivers in the country that's that's a pretty decent number but well above average in yards per coverage snap he was 92nd though in yards per Target and he was actually fourth in the country in number of pass breakups um so he was making a lot of great plays on the ball when they threw it at him he was doing really well he was getting targeted a good amount too because you know with Joey Porter on the other side they were going at him Joey Porter you know was the was a the first pick in the second round two years ago so they had a really good Corner home that year and then he was 59th amongst those 507 Corners so really high in catch rate allowed so when they were throwing at him in 2022 he was answering the Bell like really well um and they were throwing at him a good amount so that was you know that was part of the reason why coming into 2023 his stock was so high it was like oh this is like a guy who's Elite at making plays on the ball he's played against some of the best receivers in the country in the Big 10 and you know he like when they thrown at him like they other teams were trying to you know pick up pick at him you know trying to Target him and he was having none of it he was playing great 2023 comes around though and then this is amongst 492 corners but he goes down to 260th in yards per coverage snap so below average 222nd in yards per Target pretty much bang on average and then 320th in catch rate allowed so a lot more success targeting him in 2023 than in 2022 man that that catch rate changes yeah the catch rate changes is going going from you know top 10% to well low average is you know not ideal um so that's kind of the tale of it is is he was just substantially worse when targeted in 2023 than in 2022 he didn't make nearly as many plays on the ball and you could tell yourself a story that hey you know plays on the ball maybe a bit of a noisy stat um you know maybe you run that season back like a 100 times and 99 times he's better than that at you know making more like more plays on the ball but it just did not go for well for him in 2023 when he was thrown at in terms of what Scouts had to say about him uh Dane Brugler of the athletic had him as his Corner 26 he had him as a fifth or sixth round player quote a two-year starter King was an outside corner in former Penn State defensive coordinators Manny Diaz's split coverage scheme he put himself on the NFL radar with a standout 2022 season um and looked like a future first round pick however quarterback is a volatile position and Kings 2023 tape exemplified that he managed just two passes defended in his final College season um and struggled against the top opponents on his schedule most not in a tough match up against Ohio State's Marvin Harrison Jr Marvin Harrison Jr really really cooked him and you know to be fair I mean he's one of the best wide receiver prospects ever sorry that that was me adding my own aside um but anyway back to what Dame Brugler had to say quote growing up with a twin who shared the same passion for football meant King had a lifelong competitor which helped develop his tenacity and toughness though he is a springy athlete his twitch can be negated by below average long speed and underdeveloped Route anticipation versus Savvy receivers overall King is a fluid athlete with the aggressive play personality desired for the position but his inconsistent tackling coverage spacing and feel for when to take chances will continue to result in volatility in his game he is viewed as a possible safety candidate by several NFL teams end quote and then Lance zerine had him as a six seventh round player quote King's 2022 performance was significantly better than what he put on tape in 23 but it might not be enough to sway some evaluators King was consistently rocked out of position by Route breaks over the first two levels and didn't find the ball frequently enough with his back to the passer on deep shots he doesn't have the fluidity to just mirror and match routes so he'll need to get back to playing more physically from to slow down Route momentum King is more than capable of tilting 50-50 balls in his favor when he's in position but finding positioning in manner Zone coverages as a pro could be very challenging and quote so kind of similar things to be said by you know by the scouts is like 2023 when he was targeted just did not do as well getting the ball than he did in 2022 and just struggled against some of the top level competition dad what did the Packers have to say about you know King when they took him yeah so I I'm listening to from pressers from Brian kouan he said expected him to go a lot higher felt very fortunate to be able to pick him he's got a really nice skill set played some high level at Penn State and has ver versatility to play outside of nickel hopefully that will drive him it's hard to tell why he fell and more uh from gakin via Paul brle at Packers wire said I think our league has a long history of guys who felt they were overlooked and used that as motivation to drive themselves hopefully that'll be the case awesome yeah I mean that's true if anyone is going to be most motivated in this class it's going to be kayin king cuz here's a guy who oh goodness put a put a dollar in the Chris Collinsworth jar um now here's a guy who you know like I said it's it's just night and day from you know how he was looking in 2022 and how he was thought of as a prospect to how it ended up working out for him in the draft in 2023 and like you said the number one injury result is you know has a permanent chip on his shoulder from falling that far and so you can either let it you know destroy him or drive him and we're going to see um but Dad after all of that what are your final thoughts on kayin King so in watching his tape I really think he could play in the slot I um Bas based on his style even though he didn't line up there he defends hard against the Run game and really works to get get P he's physical he's not afraid to tackle he fights past blocks or anticipates it and beats the blocks to the blockers to the spot and I also like the way he breaks forward on plays both run against the run and the pass off of his backpedal to then break downhill um to either back break up a pass or to tackle the ball carrier yeah um so I ended up watching his which game was it I ended up watching his games against uh West Virginia and then his game against uh who was it shoot it was another it was another big 10 program I think ah I I can't remember which which the other one was my apologies I watched two of his games um he he plays faster than a 46 he looks quicker out there than I think his 40 time I think he's one of those you know plays faster on the field than he tests like he's not not a track star um but he looks fast out there he looks small out there um so that's definitely something he is physical like when coming down um I I do think you know at times he gets like he's giving a little too much space to in Breakers which I think is is at times a problem maybe if he's in the slot he gets more help on the inside from a linebacker um but you know my take away was mostly just why not in the seventh like it's the 255th pick here's here's he he has put better stuff on tape than you know previously and there's there's I think there's better football in him than a seventh round pick I think he's somewhere between how good he was in 2022 and how poorly he played and and tested and worked out at the Senior Bowl in 2023 I think there is a player in the middle of that that is a fine and solid player that probably you know if he stayed another year in college and came back and put together you know a season that was between 22 and 23 goes in somewhere around the fifth round and so I think getting that player in the seventh round is very much like that that's totally worth it I mean we saw Packers players you know Jaden Reed tweeted like this is not a seventh round player because if you go back and look at his matchups against Michigan State two years prior Jaden Reed and uh you know and Kaylin King had a pretty good duel going you know on the outside uh you know they I think they they each got each other one time and then there was one that was you know maybe a penalty maybe not a penalty on you know it was pretty physical match up pretty physical U uh pass breakup but I just thinkes like quotes from a number of players who were kind of in support of him after the draft uh like players you wouldn't necessarily have expected can't remember who it was was like s Gardner or somebody I can't remember now if I've got that right who had positive things to say about him after the draft yeah and I do think he's you know a physical he's a physical player um the one thing I will say though is for yes he he shows good tackling at times his Miss tackle rate is not great um I just looked to just I was curious he was 317th in Miss tackle rate amongst those Corners that subset of 4 like 997 Corners in 2023 and in 2022 he was better but still not great he was still 232nd um in Miss tacle rate amongst those 500s so you know middle of the pack um and that's while playing you know the majority of his snaps outside he wasn't playing a whole lot of slot um while at Penn State so the tackle rate numbers are not great um hopefully you know that's more noise and you know when he's put in a different position he can do a little better I do think there are like times on tape when he shows like he comes down physically it's not an issue of like mentality or stuff like that I think it's more of a technique thing so maybe they can clean that up and he can be you know a solid slot Corner going forward the size is always going to be an issue like there but um I I think that there's more promise there than those M tackle rate numbers maybe show yeah and he's he's kind of on the lower end way but he's not like a you know really really small in terms of his weight yeah I mean he's he's short and and light but at least his built kind of you know his build is normal like it's not like he's like really tall and wiry and thin like I'd rather someone be short and light than tall and light I guess um but that at 191 pounds um it's it's not too bad yeah um but anyway that's all I had to say on kin King dad anything else that you wanted to toss in before we wrap up here I think that's it I think I had kind of how I felt about about him I think uh your your comment on he's probably somewhere in between you know yeah22 2023 I think the 2022 uh it's unlikely that Packers are gonna you know hit at that level um for if he that'd be awesome if he's if he plays for the Packers at his 2022 level but I think the Packers are have been lately hitting on a kind of market and effic and getting players who played well two years ago and that too many player too many teams are ruling out players based on just their most recent year and letting yeah Packers get some steals yeah and hopefully King is another instance of that um and hopefully he'll be you know competing in that slot Corner Spot and you know pushing everyone around him to be better but anyway thank you so much for listening this has been the final of our deep dives into the Packers draft class but don't worry we will still be doing an episode every single week for the rest of the offseason you know talking about offensive line combinations what we think the optimal one's going to be how we think the receivers should be deployed um what we think you know the role of a fullback is in this offense in terms of will Henry Pearson be getting you know snaps or will that be a Ben Sims role etc etc we're g to have so much to talk about uh you know how what our thoughts on Josh Jacobs are how much work marshan there's going to be a lot to talk about between now and the start of the year and you're not going to want to turn that dial you're going to want to turn into here um once again follow us on Twitter fatherson Packers so you get up when all the new episodes are out and you know any other you know Packers news etc etc subscribe on your podcast platform of choice whether that's Apple podcast Google podcast Spotify or YouTube and until next time go Pac go go Pac go