Pirates collapse: Will they limit innings for Paul Skenes, Jared Jones as MLB postseason hopes fade?

Intro what's up everybody welcome back to the Post Gazette sports now YouTube channel and podcast Network he is Andrew dtin I am Noah Hils as always our show is brought to you by uh the NorthShore Tavern if you love baseball you'll love the NorthShore Tavern the interior is wal toall Pirates there are appetizers Entre cocktails and of course steak and seafood on a sizzling lava stone open every day the NorthShore Tavern is right across the street from PNC Park in his Pittsburgh's home for steak on a stone Andrew the last time you and I recorded one of these things the Pirates had just lost a heartbreaking series to the Arizona Diamondbacks Colin Holderman surrendered a home run with two men on to jock Peterson uh I believe that dropped them to 500 if I'm not mistaken or no maybe they a game above 500 still above yeah um but it put him in a tough Whats happened to the Pirates spot and since we have last recorded this team has not won a baseball game uh the Pirates have now lost seven straight six straight seven straight can't keep track seven straight um which is their longest losing streak of the season they have gone uh from two games over 500 to uh five games beneath 500 first time they've been Five Below 500 since July 7th um a lot of their progress they made throughout July the four straight Series victories The Sweep over the white socks all that's kind of negated now and uh if you look there's seven weeks left in the regular season this team is pretty much out of the playoff mix that could change obviously if they get hot like they did in July and they rattle off a whole bunch of Series victories they're back in the mix um but it's looking improbable now with based off of how certain individuals are performing based off of injuries just based off the way other teams in the National League are playing right now doesn't seem like this team is is going to reach the postseason especially after like we just said or like I just said losing its seventh in a row getting swept for the second straight series losing uh Sunday to the Dodgers so I guess the point of this show Andrew rather than recapping another frustrating sweep for this team the point of the show is just the question what is the goal for the remainder of 2024 for this team because the playoffs sure you could say the Whats the goal playoffs are the goal but let's be real it's very improbable for this team to make the playoffs at this point with where they are with other teams with where other teams are probably not going to happen so with seven weeks left what is the goal for the Pittsburgh Pirates the goal is you got to figure out who's here in 25 and I know that's an obvious way of putting it right me that's clear you know everybody's playing for a starting job things of that nature but this is a really important time for two reasons and one I'm going to go to is that um there has been a failure at the major league level to sufficiently develop a lot of guys who were big prospects or guys who at least had high pedigree things of that nature this two- Monon stretch is the time to figure out who is here who is going to be in Pittsburgh in 2025 who's going to have to get go back to the miners and who frankly isn't part of that future plan I'm looking at this stretch as a very critical one for guys who aren't even at the major league level right now I'm looking at Henry Davis and Jack swinsky those are two guys who were expected to be big components of this current crop I'm looking at them and I'm also looking at the rest of the farm system because the reality is a lot of guys have already gotten to Pittsburgh the farm system you know this probably isn't news to many of you guys but when you look at various Outlets across the country whether that's a baseball America whether that's MLB pipeline whatever it is this is no longer a solid or excellent farm system at this point it's struggling to be average in major league baseball so I'm not you know trying to sound the alarms or things of that nature what I'm saying is there's a lot of guys who are already in the big leagues or close or have been already I look at this two Monon stretch as frankly a trial run the games maybe you know still meaningful maybe not quite as important as they were in June July Etc you got to figure out who's part of this thing for next year because that's what this really comes down to if the team's baseball reference gives them a 1.3% chance of making the postseason it's going to be a miracle if they do so if they do hats off to them but to me you're looking toward the future that's what's so key here I agree um and so let's look at that future there are a whole bunch of names that you can go uh and examine and and kind of make a case for they should probably be used differently now uh based off of focusing on 2025 rather than trying to make the playoffs we'll start with the two obvious ones what's the plan for Paul schemes and Jared Jones Moving Forward did these guys pitch out through the rest of the season or do we see them used maybe with in a piggyback situation or with an opener and Skip starts and and just kind of maybe even get shut down toward the end of the year since the playoffs are no longer in the picture yeah I think the approach there is it's going to be personally speaking I think very different for the two of them and I'd love your thoughts on this too no is I think for Paul the goal is how far can you extend him obviously without risking injury but this is a guy who has not pitched a lot in his life it is still very much a key component here is how do you build the guy up to being able to throw 200 innings in a season I'm not saying he's going to throw 200 next year but you know you have to be able to get closer to that what is the magic number that's for the Pirates to determine there with Jared Jones I feel like you got to let him write it out I mean this guy's probably not going to join the rotation again at least for another week he's supposed to start I believe Ben charington down on his radio show on Wednesday for Indianapolis so that's what the 14th so you're looking at a return to the rotation maybe the 19th or the 20th that really only gives you a month and change left in the season for a guy who you know for all intents and purposes will have missed two months so I think he might go the entire way but ski means maybe you're a little bit more cautious there what say you N I agree I I I think you keep both of these guys in the starting rotation um because if 2025 is your focus yeah you you want to make sure they're both healthy and and pitching them a million inning you know starting them on three days rest every day for the rest of the season isn't going to be in their anyone's best interest but you need to make sure that these guys are in a place like you pointed out Andrew that they can throw 180 Innings next year 190 Innings that that won't be a significant jump and both of these guys are in different spots where Paul like you pointed out this is only his second season as a full-time pitcher in his life where he's not played another position been hitting where he's just focused just on pitching he's had one in college and now one in the pros and I think that that's why we're seeing a little bit of drop in velocity for this guy over his last couple of outings not that I'm I'm not worried about Paulk as a pitcher in general I mean still s four runs over six Innings against the Dodgers is a pretty good start for quite literally anyone um but yeah we're seeing him get a little tired I think out there as far as his velocity dropping off and that's because this guy has not pitched this much in his life it's it's relatively new for him to be pitching this long of a season maybe not workload but just as far spread out as it's been his body's never been through this so I think it's important to not shut him down to let him experience a full season as a professional starting in spring training going all the way through September as far as Jared Jones goes I I think it's important for him to get back from this injury to not let that shut him down I mean this is a guy who just started throwing at this high level velocity this year you don't want to just turn that off you've got toow you got to let him learn how to revamp because this guy's gonna go on the iil at least one more time in his career you would have to assume right I mean no one's going to dodge no one's going to get a perfect clean bill of health even if he's able to avoid you know the big injuries um and it's important for him to be able to learn how to build back up and and still pitch and maybe I think you can you can cap what they do maybe you just have predetermined Innings limits for every start say you're going two times through the order however long that takes that's how it's going to be or you're you're you're getting five innings like they did with Jones that one time in New York and I know it's not like a a strict Innings limit that's what they have said all year uh but keep them on a schedule but also maybe just monitor no over usage because that wouldn't make a ton of sense we'll move down now you talked about Henry and and and Jack and I agree I mean these guys we got to figure out what's going on with them I mean what what center field is the only you would assume going into the off season that it'll be D La Cruz with probably a left-handed platoon and right next year Reynolds is definitely your left fielder center field is the biggest question mark on this team because I feel like it's within reason that they could resign to Les if they wanted to or they could go find someone better if they want to spend some money or make a trade but center field there's not a lot out there to go get both in the trade market and in free agency especially within their price range so they've got to figure out if Jack swinsky is the guy that they're going to trot into Bradenton next year as the as the favorite to win that job or not and Henry Davis they got to figure out what in the world they have with him forget the position that he's going to play they drafted this guy for his Bat and this guy needs to come up and at least have one good month of baseball in the major leagues in 2024 and if he can't give you that then how in the world do you view him this off season with Joey Bart coming back and Andy Rodriguez gonna be healthy um couple other names that I just wanted to touch on Andrew before we wrap up here uh four guys in Triple A right now how many of them do you see playing a game for the Pittsburgh Pirates in 2024 Billy Who will play in 2024 cook Nick York Mike Burroughs and Braxton Ashcraft I'm gonna say I before you say anything because I want to say these four names that I just mentioned these are guys that are all going to have an impact in 2025 if they're healthy in some way shape or form these are all very important pieces the next year so so that's why I bring them up I will say two and I will not you know make that a guarantee of which two that is but if I'm going to increase the number to three the one that I would exclude would be Ashcraft I don't know that we see him this year just based off the injury yeah however I think he's to your point no I think he's very much going to be a big factor in it next year um the one guy that I would say that I'm maybe a little hesitant on is I don't know if we're going to see Mike Bros this year I think there is enough pitching depth at the major league level that you know buroughs I feel like would only come up if it were mid-september and it was determined that okay you're going to shut down one of Jones or skines and give Burrows or maybe I'll throw a fifth name out there maybe Abba Chandler gets a spot start up there you know to me that would be very you know that'd be a very quick trajectory and I don't know that that's in the Pirates best interests but I would see I could see a scenario where in mid-september you give one of those three pitchers a chance um with York and cook I see no reason for these guys not to get to the big league level within the next week frankly I think that you're still working without Nick Gonzalez at second base I know Isaiah kind of FIFA is playing there and that's important but you know Nick York is able to bounce around the field a little bit they're playing him in center right now I don't think they're hiding their intentions with that particularly well the Pirates it's the guy who hasn't played center field since high school and now they've tried him out there a couple of times in the last couple weeks since they acquired him he can play left as well as second certainly Billy cook is a guy who can bounce around the field as well he's played a little bit in the Outfield where he's you know frankly more comfortable um so I look it is both those guys to the point of the dra swinsky conversation they're going to get chances you know maybe Nick yorin center field is not exactly on the horizon for the Pirates but I think it goes to the point of they are trying to see what they have in both of those guys who are versatile to see if they're second baseman of the future set of fielders of the future utility guys of the future I think those are the conversations that frankly should be figured out the major league level in the near future I have continually said that I don't expect cook and York to be up simply because of they don't have a lot of time in triple A sure like between the two of them I don't think they played 100 games in Triple A in their career um that could be wrong don't don't fact check me on that but it's it's a very small sample size right um but at this point yeah like I'm just looking and and you even brought up with the starting rotation Andrew what purpose does Marco Gonzalez serve for the for this organization I mean he's not going to be back next year will he I don't think so so if that's the case then why would he start games in September as opposed to Ashcraft if he's healthy or Michael Burrows or Thomas Arrington or Bubba Chandler those are the guys and you have a six-man rotation and if you want to give a day a skip a start for skem or Jones you have guys to do that with it shouldn't be Jake Woodford you know or or Domingo Hermon shouldn't be getting Innings I mean these these are the guys that should be pitching in September and um I don't know if they're actually going to go through with that or not but and the same can be said for a guy like Michael a Taylor in center field for you know the defense that he's provided and everything the reality is he's not helping you win a lot of games in 2024 with his offense and I mean Billy cook or or Nick York or even Jack swinsky I mean one of those three guys might be center fielder next year and while cook and York are very raw get them maybe the final series get them a couple of weeks get them something because they're they're a part of the future so I I mean I would like to see all four of these guys up here but I I agree with you Andrew I think it's probably gonna be half um I think York will get a shot and I think uh Burrows will get a shot those are the two I'm most confident Ashcraft because of the injury uh and and cook because I don't think he's played hardly anytime in Triple A uh so those would be my two guys that I that I see getting some sort of opportunity um final question Andrew before we wrap this up for it's August 11th we are seven weeks until the end of the year if this team which is five games under 500 right now and they've played what 60 whatever I don't care I'm bad at math they have 61 losses and 50 five wins 56 wins and 61 losses yeah so they've played roughly what what does that make that3 games 120 games I don't know right Is this a success again comment section is gonna be mean to me about my math skills I'm tired I've written a lot of stuff today my point being is they're five games under with seven weeks of the Season left if they finish over 500 Andrew is this still a successful year it is when I zoom out from the 10,000 foot lens of what my personal expectations were for the year right I didn't I didn't think this was above 500 team but expectations are allowed to change they're allowed to Pivot based off the guys you have in the room and what the team puts forth on the field and the way that you approach things like the trade deadline and the way that you approach things like managing players so I'm going to call myself out here and say that just because you get above 500 I don't think that can suffice I don't think the way that the team operated I don't think the way the team spoke publicly if you put the cards on the table you're going to be held accountable for it so I think the idea of this a team that thought it could qualify for the postseason come trade deadline and act actually act aggressively by getting guys like Brian deor Cruz and conter FIFA and Jaylen beaks yeah this is not a success if you're 82 and 80 and you miss a wild card spot by five games I don't think it's a success how about you I would agree um and and it's the way they would have gotten to it I think that's the big Point here where if they would have just played 500 baseball after the trade deadline you know and like that would be frustrating and I don't know if I would call that a success but it would just be all right it was a slightly above average team and you would feel encouraged I think going into the off season or more encouraged than even now where sure if they finish over 500 now that means they would have played what six games over 500 for the final seven weeks of the season so that's kind of encouraging but you just look it's the route to get above 500 even though it is an improvement from 2023 it's it's it's tainted with a lot of very very winnable games that resulted in losses and one side of the fence could say hey that's just the step in this process you have to play in meaningful baseball Gam and then you have to learn how to win in meaningful baseball games but there's another side of the fence I could say or he could just win the games you just make the plays that win and that's what good players do you make the right decisions you execute it's tough I would say but yeah but if if if they I mean missing the Playoffs is one thing but simply finishing above 500 that's that's not good enough I think in order to call this a successful season this team enters September like the final week of September I should say if they're two games back if they're legitimately in the playoff race then I think you can call it a successful season but simply finishing above 500 after everything that's gone down it would be an impressive thing to do considering where they are right now but it's still not a successful season let us know what you think comment below please don't make fun of my math skills uh or Andrew sunburn uh but but uh that's all we got thank you to Northshore Tavern for sponsoring this show as always he's Andrew Dustin I'm Noah you can check out our work at postgazette.com and keep tuning in to the Post Gazette sports now YouTube channel and podcast Network for all of your Pittsburgh Pirates coverage Take Care thank you for checking out this content from Post Gazette sports if you watch this video on YouTube please like the video and subscribe to our channel for all of the sports covers the Post Gazette has to offer visit postgazette.com [Music]