Crafting the perfect Sauron for Rings of Power season 2 and bringing Tom Bombadil to life | BAFTA

- Sauron is here now, you know? Now it’s clear. There's a real battle between good and evil. - Gloves are off! - The gloves are off! Yeah. This is it. - Overall darkness, a lot of seduction of power and people generally being turned into the worst version of themselves by Sauron’s clever manipulation. - Crikey. - Yeah. - “This is the work of Sauron”. - Just a fabulous, powerful, terrifying villain in Sauron. And Charlie is... Charlie's the loveliest, kind, of cutest guy, and he's so frightening. - Yeah, in his various different guises. Really unnerving. - A truly terrifying villain. - It's a different approach, I think, in the sense that the character looks different and walks differently and talks differently. I wanted to have this regal feel, I guess. A sense of royalty and wisdom. And so I did a lot of movement work and vocal work to try and make that happen, and it was a constantly evolving process. And then with with the showrunners and with Leith McPherson our dialect coach. I wanted to make sure the character had the same internal throughline as Halbrand in the first season. And that was actually, you know, one of the most rewarding parts for to make them both fit together. And it all comes back to what Tolkien wrote about Sauron. - There's this arc between the two Charlies, as we call them. Charlie Vickers and Charlie Edwards. Sauron and Celebrimbor. - We would fall over a lot, because the robe’s very long and hazardous. - And we're going down stairs. - Lots of stairs. Yeah. And you can't you can't look down. - So you gotta count the steps before you descend them. So you don't have to look down. But then there's always a moment when you get to the bottom, when the foot is kind of leaning forward slightly just to check the ground. - There's a quite a lot where I had to hold your gaze and walk down some stairs, either away from you or towards you, so you can look out for them in the the show and know that I'm not thinking about acting at all. I’m just thinking about getting down the stairs, counting in my head. - Sauron is, first seducing then manipulating and ultimately gaslighting Celebrimbor into making the rings. And it goes to a dark place, we’re not going to spoil exactly where it goes too. But particularly in the back of the season and, in the final episodes, there is some dramatic work between them, which is just like watching two Stradivarius' be played by two, two grandmasters and, some of the places that they go emotionally, you know, on, on stage you're watching take after take and you're saying, “I wish we could, but every single take from every single angle, into the final cut”, because each one was just so good. - “This is hardly a gift. What have you done to me? What have you done to me?! Who are you? Truly?” “I am the one keeping the storm at bay.” - Yeah there is constant influence, particularly from Tolkien's work. You know, there's so many I mean, I think my generation, we all have the Peter Jackson films in our minds. So I kind of... a lot of the world when I imagine what’s... It's in the future in our world. But the context of that, that provides you with a whole emotional back catalogue of visual imagery, and so does the work of Alan Lee and John Howe. And as far as... I kind of stumbled across a villain this morning, which actually, I think subconsciously influenced me is The Child Catcher and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. And I've actually -- I went dressed up as him to a party a couple of years ago. - A couple of years ago? - Yeah, yeah. - Did you do the bald cap? Did you have a -- - No. No, I had lollipops all between my fingers like -- - Was that it? Is that what you did? - Yeah, yeah, it’s all I did! - He's got a top hat. - I think I maybe had a top hat, I’ll dig up the photo. And had a hula hoop to catch children with. But Robert Helpmann is an Australian actor and beautiful. - “All of Middle Earth is in peril. Will you abandon them to their doom? - Bringing Tom Bombadil to life is one of the great joys of season two. One of the challenges is that he's sort of an anti dramatic character. He's someone you go to where the action and the momentum of the story kind of stops in the books. So we wanted to be true to that nature of him while also figuring out a way to integrate him into the drama. And one of the ways we figure out how to do that is that The stranger is on a journey of self-discovery. And as we thought of who in Middle Earth could be an appropriate guide for a wizard that is coming into his own. Tom Bombadil leapt to the front of the list. - I think the general idea is that this dark cloak is sort of enveloping Middle Earth. And certainly in our storyline, it feels like for the Stranger, he he hasn't really understood quite how close that's getting. And, you know, when when he comes into contact with Tom, Tom is, you know, trying in his in your various ways to, to bring him up to speed. And I'm not sure the stranger is quite quick enough. So I think that that might lead us to some, some problems in our storyline. - And so we went back to the books and, you know, brought a lot of his actual dialogue and his poems and songs and the things that he's famous for doing in the book and incorporated that, but then also figure out how to make it bespoke to the situation that the stranger finds himself in at the time. And then really the sort of ace of our sleeves was, our casting director Theo Park brought Rory Kinnear to the table, and she said it's Rory Kinnear! - It must be Rory Kinnear. And, as soon as we talked to them, we were like, oh, my gosh, this guy is Tom Bombadil. - I was aware that there was a... That the fans were keen on this character, and that there was sort of online chatter around it. But in the end, you sort of just have to treat it like any other job and try and create the backstory to the character. Fortunately for Tom Bombadil, that backstory goes on for thousands of years. So you can't be completely exhaustive in your research. But stepping into it, when most of my work being with, with Daniel on the left, who obviously was an old hand at, at onset life, he sort of eased me in gently. - “Galadriel.” - The biggest change for her between season one and season two is in season one she was certain of everything, and in season two she’s certain of nothing anymore. And so kind of knowing how altered she's been was kind of a really helpful thing, because I think you also see, when kind of an event happens that makes you feel kind of so distant from your past self. So, yeah, it was kind of not feeling connected to the character in season one coming into season two was kind of helpful. - The entire second season builds to this, you know, enormous battle that's sort of, you know, aspiring to one of these classic, epic Lord of the Rings battles where you have not just two sides, but multiple sides and multiple, you know, peoples of Middle Earth, you know, and multiple alliances and it kind of pulls together every single one of, our character arcs that are happening in that part of the world. it was the most ambitious undertaking we've you know, ever attempted on a show that is not short of ambitious undertakings. And filming that battle was, you know, many weeks and many nights, and many days. And there's so many moments that, you know you pinch yourself when you're on set. You just can't believe what you're seeing. We do a horse charge this season. Led by Elrond, who is played by the unbelievable Robert Aramayo, who has gone this season from being a politician to a warrior and a general and he's leading hundreds of elves in a cavalry charge. And we shot that in a field here in England. And, you know, I mean, watching those horses charge I've never seen anything like it. You know, the whole ground shook. And that's just one small part of the many parts and the many action scenes that make up this, you know, siege that starts in the sixth episode and, you know, continues deep into the eighth. - I loved our scene where we had just we have a scene where we just have loads and loads of Orcs with us. And those scenes are always really fun. Supporting actors are not celebrated enough. - Yeah. - Just in general, they make a scene kind of really come alive and things feel really real. It’s very hard being a supporting actor. Long hours and stuff, but I think it's particularly hard to be a supporting Orc. It's incredibly physical. - Supporting Orctor. - yeah, supporting Orctor! It's kind of... You have all this makeup you have takes hours put on, and we are so lucky to be with them because it just boosts us so much. Yeah. - Yeah, and if one of them wasn't kind of fully committed to doing it, then the whole thing would break down, everybody has to be totally in it. And they all were amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I love that day too. It's like, it’s in Mordor. Orcs everywhere and Galadriel in the middle of it. And it was like it really did feel, if you don't mind me saying, quite magical. You know, to have this elf that nobody really knew, or the Orcs don't really know what to do. It's like this striking figure in the middle. It does not belong there. It was really, really great. - We work with such incredible, collaborators, department heads Barry and Sarah Gower are doing our prosthetics. this season and, you know, what they did was unprecedented in terms of, you know, an army of Orcs. You know dozens and dozens of elves, you know, halflings, harfoots, dwarves, you know, the difference between putting a human on screen and putting a dwarf on screen is you know, an enormous amount of management and resources and time and artistry, and they're legends in their field. And we're so thrilled for everyone to see their work this season. - “He’s Sauron” - We’re not trying to kind of keep up with the Joneses and the Joneses are the neighbours of the first season. In some ways, season two, actually, we aspired to go underneath season one and get deeper into character, deeper into emotional storytelling. Really unpeel some layers of who each of these people are and take them on the next step of their journey. That said, season two is probably bigger than season one. In terms of its scope, certainly in terms of action, in terms of creatures. This is a ‘starts with a bang, never lets up season’. And we're really excited for people to watch. - More, more, more! how do you like it? How do you like it? - It's great when you're on a set and everybody's having a good time. It's not just the actors mucking around and annoying everybody by giggling too much. - Eeveryone wants to get the job done and we’re just going “hehehe” - You can feel the crew going, “come on, get on with it” But no, everybody had a good time. I hope, I hope I'm right. - Yeah. - They weren't fooling us the whole time. - Well, everyone had a terrible time. - Just us! - We had a great time! - We had a great time! - Honestly think just getting covered in mud. - In mud. - If that isn't fun, I don't know what is, and you kind of have to make it fun. - But when we talk about covered in mud. We talk about COVERED iin mud. There's not an inch -- Just the eyes! The pupils... Like the white of the eyes. We were absolutely covered in mud. - It’s not Indiana Jones mud! It's like proper Middle Earth mud. - We were, “just go roll around in that mud pit over there.” - And at one point it was just like, here's a bucket of mud. Let's pop your head in there, and then we'll slowly take a little bit off. That's done. Yeah. It was like, go to 100% and then go from there instead of 0 to 100. - Yeah. - I'm not sure how much, how much of the animals we should give away, but there was a certain amount of fun with, with some like, livestock. - There was, you know, there was one particular lamb who, I would recommend to any actor not to work with simply because they were so superb. That there was no chance that anyone would be listening to or watching anything that you're doing, because The lamb was absolutely hypnotic. It was the best, one of the best actors I’ve ever worked with. - Yeah, watch out for that definitely. - I’ve heard all about some livestock? I’ve heard something about a lamb? - Livestock? - Yeah. - What happened with the livestock? -Where abouts... did the dwarves... I bet that’s... - We had a dog. - We did have a dog. - We were inside most of the time. But you had a dog... - I had a dog. - And we had a mouse! - We did have a mouse. - There you go, lot’s of livestock. - That’s the livestock! - It was a huge mouse. It was as big as a cow. A monstrous thing. - But you know, it's whatever the show demands. - I do have the, the absolute pleasure of introducing a very Tolkien-y creature this season. We can’t say, can we? - No I don’t think so, no. - It’s not the lamb, is it? I've had a all about a lamb... - It’s not the lamb. -It’s a bit more Tolkien-y? - A lamb?! - Where was lamb? - I dunno! - i did not know there were lambs. - Yeah. Rory and Daniel were talking about. - Oooooooooh - Ooooooooh! -Different worlds. We have no idea what happens there. - “You’re wise to fear these rings. In Sauron’s hands they could work on evil beyond reckoning. - The approach this season was deeper, I suppose, because we've we've done the figuring out of, in the first season of being a dwarf, of inhabiting this new world and, the new physicality and, and the mindset of a dwarf. So that was established in season one. And then being able to bring that to season two and have other elements, you know, against you, meant that we got to cook with gas, basically, and it's so it's, I mean, it's so exciting playing a different being, but at the same time, having the domesticty of the dwarven life, you know, so there are human elements obviously to them, and, and a working class element as well, which I can connect to. And having Sofia by my side and Peter Mullan coming in as a force of nature as well, you know, it's a lot of fun and it's made having them has made it easy. - I'm going to say that the whole season because it was so much more for the dwarves. And I got to explore different things, you know, I got to explore the city again and work so much more with Bear McCreary and I mean, that is always a highlight, working with him and doing what we do musically. But also I got to work with other characters. I had some scenes with the King, which I absolutely loved. And Navia, we have New Dwarves played by the sweet Kevin! And you know it was just more, more, more. And going to Eregion, you know, just the whole arc I think for me, this season was just one big favourite. - I've got to say I love the way that fans, you know, when you read the story, it's such a personal thing, isn't it? You sort of take it into yourself. And, what's great about this the whole world is that so many people have so many different ideas about where he might go, but also they can support it with stuff they know from the stories, the books, the sort of other text that Tolkien wrote. So it's been fascinating and humbling to hear all that. - Who is your favourite character from the Lord of the Rings universe? - I always say Sam, because that was the character that I loved when I was little, and I think I'd still say, Sam, I love Gollum. - Gollum gets me quite a lot, because I just think the change with the change is so extraordinary. And also having seen, you know, the work that Andy Serkis did in films is so beautifully upsetting and unsettling. - Tom Bombadil’s wife, Goldberry. She's just doted on. She has like baths all the time. She lives a lovely life. Yeah, I love her. She’s just there to vibe. - I’ll go Gandalf. - Nice! - The Big G. - I love Aragorn. - Oh, yeah! - yeah, Viggo Morensen was great. And Boromir as well. I love Sean Bean. Has to be Boromir for me. I think he's a really troubled and interesting character in Middle-Earth who is so, so corrupted and then has this sort of redeeming end where he reflects on everything and tries to do good. And yeah, other than me pretending to be a kid in the back garden and then pretending to be Boromir, that's why I think I have such a strong connection and affinity to the man. - Boromir. I always go to Nori, I like Nori, I love Nori and Poppy. I love the dynamic between them and how they see the world. - Yeah. I'm I'm going to second that. I'm absolutely going to say second that! Yeah, I am, because you're absolutely right. They’re everything that we really need to be, which is innocent and kind and loving and curious and fearless! I like Beren from Beren and Lúthien it's the original sort of man and elf love story and a lot of cool stuff. - Melf! - Melf love story! And a lot of cool stuff happens. Like he gets his arm bitten off because he gets to... anyway... We can talk about that later. We'll talk about after. - There’s so many, I love the Ents. Absolutely, absolutely love the Ents.. Fell in love with with with them. The keepers of the forest, such magical wise beings. Like, they're really impacted me when I first got introduced to them, but very close, very close second is also Gandalf, which loving Gandalf is loving many different characters as he changes as he goes. But he’s badass. I mean, Sir Ian McKellen plays the living lights out of this role. There's I mean, he's chill. He's, you know, authoritative, he’s magical. He's nostalgic. Like he's kind of a stoner, you know, he's like a buddy! - Smoking the leaf, isn’t he? It's just beautiful... as an actor wonderful. But also as a fantasy character Just magic upon magic. - We love King Theoden in the films in particular, and in the books, I think Galadriel for me. - Yeah. Theoden always get to me emotionally. And, then, I mean, also Gandalf. I mean, who doesn't love Gandalf? Like, he's just so wise? But he’s always got that little twinkle in his eye as well. And also Tom Bomadil! So there's, there's, as I said, there's competition. - I had Lord of the rings wallpaper. - When you say wallpaper, like, was it just did the Lord of the Rings everywhere on the wall or was it... - It was a repeat pattern and there were probably about four patterns. - Was it Gandalf... Was it characters? It was the movies. the 1978... - Gandalf and then Frodo? - Gandalf and I had the Poster, which is the brilliant poster for that. It's a fantastic poster for that cartoon movie. - I’ll show it to you later! - Thanks. “Every soul in Middle Earth is in peril.” - Tolkien’s imagination is an ocean. And every season you get a bathtub in which you're able to try to fit that ocean. So really, it's an embarrassment of riches. And, every single time you get to say, what are the amazing things that are in Middle Earth that we can bring to life today? - I don't know that it's a bathtub. I think it's a lot bigger than that. It’s a great lake! up to to what I think I'm selfishly going to say Durin like being with going through what he had to go through in season in season two, because he was a journey of self-discovery and and going through that with him and going through the process of of like it like I said, you know, the juxtaposition that that's in him and the struggle and the bravery that he has to show to go against his father, to lose his father, the loneliness of him and, and and the kind of becoming, becoming a man and, and having to to stand up for himself, stand up for this, stand up against his father. It was real. It was. It was a real journey. And that's that's my big take from from season two was was the self-discovery of, of of Dalton and, you know, he started the season here and he finishes the season here. Like I said, you know, there's a right there's a good arc and a real good journey for him this season. Right. the necessity for us to do something about the return of Sauron is that there is no time to kind of really think. We just have to act immediately, because we're all under such huge threat of being wiped out do a horse charge this season. Led by Elrond, who has gone from being played by the unbelievable Robert Leo, who has gone this season from being a politician to a warrior and a general and he's leading hundreds of elves in a cavalry charge. And we shot that in, in a field here in England. And, you know, I mean, watching those horses charge. I've never seen anything like it. You know, the whole ground shook. And that's just one small part of the many parts and the many action scenes that make up this, you know, siege that starts in the sixth episode and, you know, continues deep into the eighth. So so that's sort of life experiences right there. Tolkiens imagination is an ocean. And every season you get a bathtub in which you're able to, to try to fit that ocean. So really, it's an embarrassment of riches. And, every single time you to say, what are the amazing things that are middle earth that we can bring to life today? I don't know that it's a bathtub. I think it's a lot bigger than that. Yeah, we have a great. It's a great lake. Yes. And, second season is like the minutia, like the, the pivots, the, the the darker psychological aspects. So for me, it's been, it's just been done. It almost feels like a new thing because he's gone through so many changes, so many big developments. And, it's been a wonderful, wonderful challenge. thought a lot about the sort of existential element the that Tolkien sort of inspires and distills into a lot of his work, especially with kind of human characters that are very fallible. And I sort of thought about, yeah, Camu has a lot of interpretation of what it means to be a rebel. I think some of these characters are quite rebellious in nature, but I think there's a quote, I think rebelliousness is a strange form of love. And I think there's sort of, in a way for Theodore especially he, he does things out of a love for the things that he's lost. And he's grieving a lot. So I think that is a sort of constant source and well, of inspiration for me, because I think I just want to tap into those existential things and, and what it means to be a human, what it means to be a man. And, and, you know, the rest of us are completely tainted by all the other stuff. And and they are just they are purity that they're the children in us that we all need to tap into. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. And just to quickly wrap things up, I am mean for you, perhaps which one is sort of his brother but 99 noble who played for me? David. David. David. Faramir. It was great. David. David. Oh, yeah. I, I just saw this so many I love I love the end and, absolutely, absolutely love the ends. Fell in love with with with them. The keeper, the keepers of the forest, such magical wise beings. Like, they're really impacting you. And I was, you know, I first got introduced to them, but very close, very close. Second is also Gandalf, which liking, you know, loving Gandalf as loving many different characters as he changes as he goes. But it's just badass. I mean, Sir Ian McKellen plays the living daylights out of this role. There's I mean, he's chill. He's, you know, authoritative is magical. He's nostalgic. Like he's kind of a stoner, you know, he's like the good you. But look, the leaf isn't is like, chilling. It's just beautiful as an actor. Wonderful, but also as a fantasy character. Just the magic of, magic. You know? Amazing. I think the approach for me, it's just been, you know, season one was the introduction of, you know, and she was a she is a character that's been built from the ground up. We have like a very small seed in Tolkiens work on the female dwarf. And so we created something, you know, from, from from not not really. And I watched her really be born in season one. And so JD and Patrick and everyone that I work with is now helped to support such a level of density for her. And yes, she's joyous and she is strong, but none of us who, that, immune to dark forces and to fear and to struggle and to pain, also to be able to have a really loving, united relationship. And so I guess the approach was to recognize the layers upon layers upon layers for this particular character, for her, and really her centerpoint, her instinct, her resonating, her her spirit, really. And to try and just move with the challenges of, of of when forces shake the ground of our spirit. So it was just to kind of really make sure that every aspect of her was being cared for. Great. I don't know that we've ever seen a relationship like this before. That's what's so wonderful about them. Is that they're so united and they're so strong and they're so in love, and you know that. But also they're so relatable. And I don't think it's often that you see that there's often some sort of tumultuous drama right from the get go with the married couple, and they're kind of like, they're just so united. They're like, you know, they ride or die. And and I think it's so lovely to see in a fantasy space. So in terms of the couple, I wouldn't necessarily I think we drew on our friendship actually, and the writing that we were given to kind of inspire them, you know. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Take the baton. The baton. Yeah I what I would say is that you draw, you always try to draw on, you know, your objective and your obstacles. Right. And, and the obstacles in every scene that that was, that's been written for me. For me personally, I can only speak for myself freely, but that that there's always a journey that if you start in one place and the journey you go through, you finish in another, a in A in a different place, and every scene is that. Yeah. And if you can find that, if you can find what you want and and not and not be able to reach it, you know, having that kind of juxtaposition that the paradox, you know, ehm, within yourself, that's what, that's what I, that's what I draw, try and draw every time I go on to that basically is what I want. And what why can't I get it, you know, because that to me is is interesting to watch. Yeah. No. Fantastic. because there is no there has been no version of him before other than in the video game, which I not, I don't know anything about. I can't comment on that. But, I, it's token. Token was what gave me the way to play it and everything I, I found in there. I've tried to you know, there's no description of him as a physical description of him. There's no there is a you know, that he talks about his is sort of the little devil on his shoulder, which is the spirit and legacy of his grandfather. So that's a really good, good backbone for the character. So it's my, it's my and the showrunners creation. Yeah. Fabulous. Thank you. Do you have any favorite so we've set the world. We've built our world. We know who the characters are. And I think, you know, there were many people who were watching who who weren't familiar with Lord of the rings. So that needs that's necessary. So now we can start telling the stories, particularly the I think people are looking forward to seeing this being one of them. And, that's why we're particularly pleased and proud to be to be doing this story, because it's it's kind of the, what gets the the boulder rolling down the hill in, in this, in this tale. So we're very happy to be to be doing that. Yeah. It's dark and it's gritty and it's exciting. And yeah, it's all, it's all those things and you go on a real rollercoaster. Yeah, it is it, it's really down and it's kind of like a psychological thriller. Yeah. At times. Yeah. It's great. It's been wonderful to shoot. Great. Were you big fans not you had a a bedroom. I'm really curious about this wallpaper I just had watched the Peter Jackson films and, like, the PlayStation games, and that's it. Nice. Great. Thanks, guys so much. I had, One Direction was the same thing for me. I was it wasn't all paper, but it might as well have been. The whole room falls, covered with their faces. Their faces. Posters. I had a cardboard cutout of all of them, of Harry styles life, life size. I doubt it was quite small, but, well, you know, rather than Jonathan's time, you might. Thanks, guys. Sorry. Well, it was the first time I've had to do a second season of a show before. So with that comes this great sense of responsibility, but also time that I've lived with the character, which has just sort of seeped into my subconscious. So kind of returning back to middle earth has been sort of easier, but also has come with my own sort of interpretation of where the character has grown in that time. And I just think, yeah, it's been it's been wonderful, wonderful to kind of play a character that that has to grow personally on screen over a season. And I think, yeah, you meet the character in a spider cave, and he has to learn how to survive and and defeat evil and learn who to trust. And yeah, sort of he becomes a man by the end of the end of the season. So that was just a wonderful kind of full circle moment that I've got to got to play. And, yeah, I mean, I seem I have not had, the experience of doing a second season of anything before and usually on a limited series or movies or a season of thing, you know, self-contained story. So this, this dynamic of, of, living with the character for so long and coming back to it, you know, because, you know, you go on hiatus and, personally do a bunch of things and leave the character here. But in the world of the show and the world of middle earth, the character continues momentum. Yeah. So once you come back, you essentially have to sit down with it and, the roles reverse. You kind of have to sit with the character and be like, where are you then? And Kate, can you tell me what's up, what's happened in your life? Essentially. And, and having that opportunity of reintroducing myself or catching up with this guy has been, it's been wonderful. It's a wonderful experience, of the depth that you have to, reach for because just as much as you build a world, you also, you know, the worldbuilding thing that you do, the begins a little broader also as a fantasy character. Just the magic of, magic. You know? Yeah. It is. Yeah. very totally, creature this, this, season and, one scene when you see it, you'll know exactly what it is. And it's, it was kind of like, with, things on them. And it's not lamb, is it? I've had a all about some alarm. It's not not lamb. It's a bit more in the, It's a bit more. Tell me that it was. It was a I don't know, that was in the show, I don't know, I did not know they're allowed. Yeah. Rory and Daniel talking about, nothing to do with know. Yeah. Well, we have no idea what happens. Oh. Daniel. Yeah. Is it. But is it David really? David. Okay. And just finally, just to quickly round things off, what can the fans expect from season two? Action. Yeah, I exist and true I mean I, I it's it is it has more moment I mean not more momentum is a different momentum moves through. There's a sense of urgency. And in it is a lot of these characters, if not all of them, just having these broad existential moments and questions. But then you have to adapt to very quickly, everybody's like, what these my character I on need as well. Like, why am I here? Who am I in this whole thing? Where do I go in this moment of, like, so much urgency? And what part do I play? In what needs to be done to, to essentially, keep middle earth safe. So, and I think every character also stares evil in the face. Absolutely. And it's sort of it's, it's it's it's definitely action packed and, and I think audiences are going to be on the edge of their seats. Great. Thanks guys so much for being a pleasure. I really love looking at artwork that's been inspired by talking and also kind of lots of the, lots of the Renaissance paintings. And I find that's something that I find quite inspirational in doing it. Yeah. I mean, I had, you know, I had a Josef's performance as our Da in season one as a very strong kind of, starting point. So to take it from there. And it made so much sense to me that it was, it felt very natural kind of taking it from that. Yeah. I think kind of the biggest change for her between season one and season two is in season one. She was certain of everything, and in season two she says, I'm nothing anymore. And so kind of knowing how altered she's been was kind of a really helpful thing, because I think you also see, when kind of an event happens that makes you feel kind of so distant from your past self. So, yeah, it was kind of not feeling connected to the character in season one. I mean, season two was kind of helpful. Yeah. Right. scene where we had just we have a scene where we just have loads and loads of walks with us. And those scenes are always really fun. And, you know, like, the supporting actors are not celebrated enough. Yeah. Just in general, they, they make a scene kind of really come alive and things feel really real hard being a supporting actor. It is long hours and stuff, but I think it's particularly hard to be a supporting orc. It's incredibly physical. Yes. Supporting actor. It's kind of. You have all this makeup you have takes hours put on, and we are so lucky to be with them because it just boosts us so much. Yeah. And if one of them wasn't kind of fully committed to doing it, then the whole thing of break down, everybody has to be totally in it. And they all were amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I love that day too. It's like, is in Mordor. Orcs everywhere and Galadriel in the middle of it. And it was like it really did feel, if you don't mind me saying, quite magical. You know, to have this elf that nobody really knew who the orcs don't really know what to do. It's like this striking figure in the middle. It does not belong there. It was really, really great. Well, I've always wanted to be Tom Bombadil. His wife called Barry. She's just doted on. She's like boss all the time. She gives, like, a lovely life. Yeah, I love her. She's just there to vibe. Yeah. I love Aragorn. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Thinking about it, it was great. And Boromir as well. I love Sean Bean, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of, action. When I say action, I don't just mean kind of fighting and stuff. I mean, it's just the necessity for us to do something about the return of Sauron is that there is no time to kind of really think. We just have to act immediately, because we're all under such huge threat of being wiped out and just a fabulous, powerful, terrifying villain in Seldon. And Charlie is Charlie's the loveliest, kind, of cutest guy, and he's so frightening. And yeah, it's. Yeah, in his various different guises. Really unnerving. Truly terrifying. Yeah. And. All right. And, Sam, Yeah, it was great. It was fantastic. I mean, it's such an incredible world to be a part of. And, you know, taking over, from Joseph was a pleasure. And, you know, the character was one of my favorite characters from the first season, if not my favorite. And there's so much complexity there. It's just a real treat to play that character, that character, and to, you know, explore the darkness and the light within him. Really. All right. Thank you. I think that's it for me. So thank you so much Well, true. It's, Well, I mean, I was aware that there was a, the yes, the fans were keen on this character, and that there was sort of online chatter around it. But in the end, you sort of just have to treat it like any other job and try and create create the backstories to the character. But unfortunately with Tom Bombadil, that backstory goes on for thousands of years. So you can't be completely exhaustive in your research. But stepping into it, when most of my work being with, with Daniel on the left, who obviously was an old hand at, at onset life, he sort of eased me in gently. Oh, you. Come on, you've ruled it when you got in. I love, I love the way that you sort of tipped the tip, the scales. You were so, you know, so quick when we first started working in my. In Tom's Tom's house. So it did feel like, I should know what was going on in this place and. And what? The rules of it. Yeah. And I was inviting in the stranger into into Tom's house. So, so that sort of set the tone of the whole first few scenes. Yeah. Cool. Great. what I've got to say. I love the way that fans, you know, when you read the story, it's such a personal thing, isn't it? You sort of take it into yourself. And, what's great about this? The whole world is that so many people have so many different ideas about where he might go, but also they can support it with stuff they know from the stories, the books, the sort of other text that Tolkien wrote. So it's been fascinating and humbling to hear all that. And I think in terms of my approach at what I was, because I was I didn't really speak in the first series. And so lots of the stuff I'd been forced to listen for probably the first time. And that's why I said, because I said yes. Yes, I thought it would just be me. Yeah. I then the, you know, the the taking it all in, letting it affect him deep in the core and sort of allowing a physical response. I wanted to keep some of that as he was able to speak. So I tried to slow it down a bit so that so that the words came from the same place, because I was worried that it might come a bit from the brain and and not be so stranger. Season one. So hopefully this continuity. But he's going to face some, some, some big difficulties. Season two, not least trying to keep up with this one. Great. saw I saw something that we did the other day. There's a there's a scene that's I can't remember where on the internet, but there's a scene where you suddenly make the fire go crazy in your house. Oh, yeah. And I remember filming that and we were both like, whoa, whoa, it's it's coming that much out, you know, like, you can you can be two feet away. That'll be fine. Yeah. And that's got a big beard that I was wearing that, that bit with hair. Yeah. Yeah. It's you know. So yeah it was a very instant shave. Yeah. And I'm not sure how much, how much of the animals we should give away, but there was a certain amount of fun with, with some like, livestock. There was, you know, there was, there was, one particular lamb who, I would recommend to any actor not to work with him because they were so superb. That there was no chance that anyone would be listening to or watching anything that you're doing, because The lamb was absolutely hypnotic. It was the best, one of the best stuff to watch out for that definitely hypnotic. Yeah. show. There are so many on there. I mean, I feel, you know, I feel like Gollum gets me quite a lot, because I just think the change with the change is so extraordinary. And also having seen, you know, the work that Andy Circus did in films is is so beautifully upsetting and unsettling. I sort of the darker part of me really yearns for that, that kind of, character. Yeah, I think I'll go that. I'll go. Gandalf. Nice. The big nice. The big old classic. Classic. Yes. And just as a How do we top the scope and, you know, look and action of season one and season two? I'd say that, really, we're not about just trying to do the same thing, but bigger, which is, I think, a trap that that, you see, kind of, folks fall into sometimes, Tolkiens imagination is an ocean. And every season you get a bathtub in which you're able to, to try to fit that ocean. So really, it's an embarrassment of riches. And, every single time you to say, what are the amazing things that are middle earth that we can bring to life today? I don't know that it's a bathtub. I think it's a lot bigger than that. Yeah, we have a great. It's a great lake. Yes. And, but actually just jumping on what JD was saying, I think, you know, again, we're not trying to kind of keep up with the Joneses and the Joneses or the neighbors of the first season. In some ways, season two, actually, we aspired to go underneath season one and get deeper into character, deeper into emotional storytelling. Really unpeel some layers of who each of these people are and take them on the next step of their journey. That said, season two is probably bigger than season one. In terms of its scope, certainly in terms of action, in terms of creatures. This is a starts with a bang, never lets up season. And we're really excited for people to to to watch great. Now and cult favorite? Yeah. Bringing Tom bumper to life is one of the great joys of season two. He is someone who has never been brought to life before on the big screen. And, so we had the opportunity to really figure out how you want to translate him. And what are the challenges is that he's sort of an anti dramatic character. He's someone you go to where the action and the momentum of the story kind of stops in the books. So we wanted to be true to that nature of him while also figure out a way to integrate him into the drama. And one of the ways we figure out how to do that is that The stranger is on a journey of self-discovery. And as we thought of who in middle earth could be an appropriate guide for a wizard that is coming into his own. Tom Bombadil leapt to the front of the list. And so we went back to the books and, you know, brought a lot of his actual dialog in his poems and songs and the things that he's famous for, for doing in the book and incorporated that, but then also figure out how to make it bespoke to the situation that the stranger finds himself in at the time. And then then really the sort of ace of our sleeves was, our casting director at the park, brought Rory Kinnear to the table, and, she said it's where we can hear it. Must be Rory Kinnear. And, as soon as we talked to them, we were like, oh, my gosh, this guy God is Tom Bombadil. And, as soon as he came on stage, it was absolute magic. do we have any favorite moments in the making of season two so I can try to repeat? You know, the entire second season builds to this, you know, enormous battle. That's sort of, you know, aspiring to one of these classic, epic Lord of the rings battles where you have not just two sides, but multiple sides and multiple, you know, peoples of middle earth, you know, and multiple alliances and the kind of pulls together every single one of, our character arcs that are happening in that part of the world. You know, it was the most ambitious undertaking we've we've, you know, ever, ever attempted on a show that is, is not short of ambitious undertakings. And filming that battle was, you know, many weeks and many nights, and many days. And there's so many moments that, you know, you know, you pinch yourself when you're on set. You just can't believe what you're seeing. We do a horse charge this season. Led by Elrond, who has gone from being played by the unbelievable Robert Leo, who has gone this season from being a politician to a warrior and a general and he's leading hundreds of elves in a cavalry charge. And we shot that in, in a field here in England. And, you know, I mean, watching those horses charge. I've never seen anything like it. You know, the whole ground shook. And that's just one small part of the many parts and the many action scenes that make up this, you know, siege that starts in the sixth episode and, you know, continues deep into the eighth. So so that's sort of life experiences right there. And I'd say you get for free, that's some of the smaller, more dramatic moments. You know, there's this arc between the two Charlies, as we call them Charlie because and try the efforts. Sarah and Caleb remember this season in which Sarah is, first seducing the manipulating and ultimately gaslighting Caleb or more into making the rings. And it goes to a dark place, but I won't spoil exactly where it goes too. But particularly in the back of the season and, in the final episodes, there is some dramatic work between them, which is just like watching two Stradivarius be played by two, two grandmasters and, some of the places that they go emotionally, you know, on, on stage. You're watching take after take and you're saying, I wish we could, but every single take from every single angle, into the final cut, because each one was just so good. Great. You know, there is competition. Yeah. I, you know, in the, the books, and the films, I mean, Gollum is pretty spectacular, but we, we love, King and, in the films in particular, and and in the books, I think. Galadriel for me. Yeah. They didn't want to always get to me emotionally. And, then, I mean, also Gandalf. I mean, who doesn't love Gandalf? Like, he's just so wise? Video it's always got that little twinkle in his eye as well. And it's, and also talking about middle. So there's, there's, as I said, there's competition. home or. Oh, I took one leaf from Lauren and another. And so I took one leaf from, They didn't. Sorry, Linda. Yes. So I said, yeah, I took one leaf for Linden. Yeah, I don't know. I think about that one. Secrets. Any anything people don't know? I mean, probably tons, but nothing is coming to mind tonight. I thought of a fun story. Where at the end of season one, the prosthetics team, gave me this box. And, I open it up, and it was a little bit like seven units. What's in the box? You're a little worried to open up a random box that you're give it, and I open up, and there's a pair of ears in there. And they said they could give me some of Galadriel's ears. And, I keep it in my office and sometimes, you know, my, my son is nine years old, and it feels like frantic horror for a playdate. I'd be like, hey, you guys wanna hear something? I'll tell you. One day I was walking through the woods, and I actually caught, an elf or a fairy, and, and that I challenged it to a riddling contest, and that because I won the rolling contest, I got to choose and keep their ears. And so I'm like, since the year, two years, check them out. And I open the box really quickly. They're all freaked out by it. Yeah. Amazing. And they're like, super real as well. They do. I mean, look, I mean, if you can see like the veins and I mean, it's amazing. And then we talk about the prosthetics work, on this show, we work with such incredible, collaborators, counselors, department heads, Barry and Sarah, our Sarah, our are doing our prosthetics. This season. And, you know, what they did was unprecedented in terms of, you know, an army of orcs. You know, you know, dozens and dozens of elves, you know, halflings, you know, harfoots dwarves, you know, the the the difference between putting a human on screen and putting a dwarf on screen is you know, an enormous amount of management and resources and time and artistry, and they're legends in their field. And we're so thrilled for everyone to see their work this season. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, they make such a big part of these sorts of I, I see my approach this season. Yeah. Was I mean, my approach is always the same, but the approach this season will was deeper, I suppose, because we've we've done the figuring out of, of in the first season of being a dwarf, of inhabiting this new world and, and the new physicality and, and the mindset of a dwarf. So that was established in season one. And then being able to bring that, that to season two and have other elements, you know, against you, meant that we got to cook with gas, basically, and, and it's, it's, it's so it's, I mean, it's so exciting playing a different being, but at the same time, having the domestic city of the dwarven life, you know, so there's that, human element obviously to them, and, and a working class element as well, which, which I, which I can connect to. And having Sofia by my side and, and Peter Mullan coming in as a force of nature as well, you know, it's it's, it's a, it's a lot of fun and it's made having them has made it easy because they're so giving as actors and, and having that comfort. You're able to play a lot on, on, on set and having that trust. It's yeah, it's very, very fortunate as well. I'd say. Amazing. I think the approach for me, it's just been, you know, season one was the introduction of, you know, and she was a she is a character that's been built from the ground up. We have like a very small seed in Tolkiens work on the female dwarf. And so we created something, you know, from, from from not not really. And I watched her really be born in season one. And so JD and Patrick and everyone that I work with is now helped to support such a level of density for her. And yes, she's joyous and she is strong, but none of us who, that, immune to dark forces and to fear and to struggle and to pain, also to be able to have a really loving, united relationship. And so I guess the approach was to recognize the layers upon layers upon layers for this particular character, for her, and really her centerpoint, her instinct, her resonating, her her spirit, really. And to try and just move with the challenges of, of of when forces shake the ground of our spirit. So it was just to kind of really make sure that every aspect of her was being cared for. Great. I don't know that we've ever seen a relationship like this before. That's what's so wonderful about them. Is that they're so united and they're so strong and they're so in love, and you know that. But also they're so relatable. And I don't think it's often that you see that there's often some sort of tumultuous drama right from the get go with the married couple, and they're kind of like, they're just so united. They're like, you know, they ride or die. And and I think it's so lovely to see in a fantasy space. So in terms of the couple, I wouldn't necessarily I think we drew on our friendship actually, and the writing that we were given to kind of inspire them, you know. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Take the baton. The baton. Yeah I what I would say is that you draw, you always try to draw on, you know, your objective and your obstacles. Right. And, and the obstacles in every scene that that was, that's been written for me. For me personally, I can only speak for myself freely, but that that there's always a journey that if you start in one place and the journey you go through, you finish in another, a in A in a different place, and every scene is that. Yeah. And if you can find that, if you can find what you want and and not and not be able to reach it, you know, having that kind of juxtaposition that the paradox, you know, ehm, within yourself, that's what, that's what I, that's what I draw, try and draw every time I go on to that basically is what I want. And what why can't I get it, you know, because that to me is is interesting to watch. Yeah. No. Fantastic. Do you have any favorite moments from, filming the second season? Oh, God. There's lots. So many. Yeah, there's there's many. Do you know, I'm going to say that the whole season because it was so much more for the dwarves. And I got to explore different things, you know, I got to explore the city again and work so much more with bear. McCreary and I mean, that is always a highlight, working with him and doing what we do musically. But also I got to work with other characters. I had some scenes with the King, which I absolutely loved. And now we have New Dwarves by Brian Sweet Kevin. And you know that there was just it was just more and more more and going to already on, you know, that was just the whole arc. I think for, for me, this season was just one big favorite. Yeah, yeah. Ash up to to what I think I'm selfishly going to say Durin like being with going through what he had to go through in season in season two, because he was a journey of self-discovery and and going through that with him and going through the process of of like it like I said, you know, the juxtaposition that that's in him and the struggle and the bravery that he has to show to go against his father, to lose his father, the loneliness of him and, and and the kind of becoming, becoming a man and, and having to to stand up for himself, stand up for this, stand up against his father. It was real. It was. It was a real journey. And that's that's my big take from from season two was was the self-discovery of, of of Dalton and, you know, he started the season here and he finishes the season here. Like I said, you know, there's a right there's a good arc and a real good journey for him this season. Right. So other than your fantastic own characters, do you have any favorite, characters from the Lord of the rings universe or could be books, film, games? I always, I always go to naughty, I like naughty, I love naughty and Poppy. I love that the the dynamic between them and how they see the world. Yeah, the innocence of them. Yeah. I'm I'm going to second that. I'm absolutely going to say I am not. Yeah, I am, because you're absolutely right there. Everything that we really need to be, which is innocent and kind and loving and curious and fearless, you know, the rest of us are completely tainted by all the other stuff. And and they are just they are purity that they're the children in us that we all need to tap into. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. And just to quickly wrap things up, Mamamoo how do you, like, get? Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is this this out on his hand now, you know, they they now it's clear there's a real battle between good and evil. And, the gloves are off. The gloves are off? Yeah. This is it. The gods are up. You know, there's a lot, a lot of questions that are being asked now of us as, as characters and, of us as as audience members as well. Great. Thank you guys so much. approach, I think, in the sense that the character looks different and walks differently and talks differently. I wanted to have this regal feel. I guess, a, a sense of royalty and wisdom. And so I did a lot of movement work and vocal work to try and make that happen, and it was a constantly evolving process. And then with with the showrunners and with Leith Macpherson, a dialect coach. But I wanted to make sure the character had the same internal throughline as Halbrand in the first season. And that was actually, you know, one of the most rewarding parts for to make them both fit together. And it all comes back to what Tolkien wrote about Salem. I think with me it was more seeing what the I knew, the story we were going to tell. We've both been looking forward to this very much, but the detail with which the, the showrunners have come up with these extraordinary twists and mental twists and turns that they subjects us to. And so I kind of just gone with the as that each script arrived, you just go, wow, that's that's big, that's major, that's exciting. You know, the bigger the the bigger the, the event on the page, the more exciting it is for an actor, you know, because it's it's a more challenge. The more challenging it is, the better. So yeah I've just gone with the roll with the punches this season and, and gone where they've put me and you know ended up quite so sweet where they told me to go flatly. But yeah he, he's taken on the, on a, on a long dark journey. This season. So you just kind of go along with it. Great. other media. Did you feel that there was any influence, or did you feel this constant influence, particularly from Tolkien's work? You know, there's so many I mean, I think my generation, we all have the Peter Jackson films in our minds. So I kind of a lot of the world when I imagine, what's it's in the future in our world. But the context of that, that provides you with a whole emotional back catalog of visual imagery, and so does the work of Ali and John, how. And as far as, we I kind of stumbled across a villain this morning, which actually, I think subconsciously influenced me is The Child Catcher and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. And I've actually I went dressed up as him to a, a party a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah. Did you do the ball cap? Did you have a. No. No, I had lollipops all between my fingers. Like, was that. Is that what you do? Yeah, yeah. So did he's got a top hat. I mean, I think I maybe I had a top hat, but I dig up the photo. It's, it's about who like to catch children with. But Robert Helpmann is Australian actor and, beautiful. Yeah. It's it's yeah, it's iconic because it's, in terms of my character, I think because there is no there has been no version of him before other than in the video game, which I not, I don't know anything about. I can't comment on that. But, I, it's token. Token was what gave me the way to play it and everything I, I found in there. I've tried to you know, there's no description of him as a physical description of him. There's no there is a you know, that he talks about his is sort of the little devil on his shoulder, which is the spirit and legacy of his grandfather. So that's a really good, good backbone for the character. So it's my, it's my and the showrunners creation. Yeah. Fabulous. Thank you. Do you have any favorite moments on set? And you? Funny stories. Fun. Favorite time? There's a lot of we had a lot of fun on set. Yeah. And it's great when you're on a set and everybody's having a good time. It's not just the actors mucking around and annoying everybody by giggling to everyone wants to get the job done. Yeah, just go with them. The actors are good that you can feel the crew going, come on, get on with it. But no, everybody had a good time. Yeah, I hope, I hope I'm right. Yeah. They weren't fooling us the whole time. Well, everyone had a terrible time, so it's just I, we had a great time. We had a great time there, but we did. There's no like funny anecdotes really apart from it. There's some constant things which kept happening. We would fall over a lot, because the road was very long and hazardous. And we're going down stairs. Lots of stairs. Yeah. And you can't you can't look down. So you gotta count the steps before you descend them. Yeah. So you don't have to look down. But then there's always a way when you get to the bottom, when the foot is kind of leaning forward slightly just to check around. There's a quite a lot where I had to hold your gaze and walk down some stairs, either away from you or towards you, so you can look out for them in the side. No, I well, I know that I'm not thinking about acting at all. I'm just getting that sense, counting in my head. Great. And We did have a we were inside most of the time. But you had a dog that I had a dog and we had a mouse. We did have a mouse. We had lots of livestock. Yeah, that's a lot of livestock. It was a huge mouse. This is big as a cat. The cats is a monstrous thing. But you know, it's whatever the show demands. You drooled. So who is your favorite character from the Lord of the I always say Sam, because that was the character that I loved when I was little, and I think I'd still say, Sam, I love Colin. I like Beren from Burning Luthien because it's the original sort of man and elf love story and a lot of cool stuff. No mouth of story and a lot of cool stuff happens. Like he gets his arm bitten off because he gets to sit anywhere. We can talk about it later. We'll talk about after. Great. And what can so we've set the world. We've built our world. We know who the characters are. And I think, you know, there were many people who were watching who who weren't familiar with Lord of the rings. So that needs that's necessary. So now we can start telling the stories, particularly the I think people are looking forward to seeing this being one of them. And, that's why we're particularly pleased and proud to be to be doing this story, because it's it's kind of the, what gets the the boulder rolling down the hill in, in this, in this tale. So we're very happy to be to be doing that. Yeah. It's dark and it's gritty and it's exciting. And yeah, it's all, it's all those things and you go on a real rollercoaster. Yeah, it is it, it's really down and it's kind of like a psychological thriller. Yeah. At times. Yeah. It's great. It's been wonderful to shoot. Great. Were you big fans of the book before or did you? Is this kind of a new. No. I was yeah. When I was, yeah I was a, I was an obsessive when I was a kid. Genuinely obsessed with it. Yeah. Yeah. I've yeah. I mean, to the point of, you know, very. I wasn't parental concern you had. I mean, Charlie had a not you had a a bedroom. I'm really curious about this wallpaper and Lord of the rings wallpaper. Wow. When you say wallpaper, like, was it just did the Lord of the rings everywhere on the wall or was it was a it was a it was a repeat pattern of and then probably about four patterns was again. That was again right. Yeah. It was the it was the movies that had seen Gandalf and then Frodo and Gandalf and the Post, which is the brilliant poster for that. It's a fantastic poster for that cartoon. Maybe I'll show it to you later. Thanks. Yeah. When we talk, I have to ask, you know, I just had watched the Peter Jackson films and, like, the PlayStation games, and that's it. Nice. Great. Thanks, guys so Well, it was the first time I've had to do a second season of a show before. So with that comes this great sense of responsibility, but also time that I've lived with the character, which has just sort of seeped into my subconscious. So kind of returning back to middle earth has been sort of easier, but also has come with my own sort of interpretation of where the character has grown in that time. And I just think, yeah, it's been it's been wonderful, wonderful to kind of play a character that that has to grow personally on screen over a season. And I think, yeah, you meet the character in a spider cave, and he has to learn how to survive and and defeat evil and learn who to trust. And yeah, sort of he becomes a man by the end of the end of the season. So that was just a wonderful kind of full circle moment that I've got to got to play. And, yeah, I mean, I seem I have not had, the experience of doing a second season of anything before and usually on a limited series or movies or a season of thing, you know, self-contained story. So this, this dynamic of, of, living with the character for so long and coming back to it, you know, because, you know, you go on hiatus and, personally do a bunch of things and leave the character here. But in the world of the show and the world of middle earth, the character continues momentum. Yeah. So once you come back, you essentially have to sit down with it and, the roles reverse. You kind of have to sit with the character and be like, where are you then? And Kate, can you tell me what's up, what's happened in your life? Essentially. And, and having that opportunity of reintroducing myself or catching up with this guy has been, it's been wonderful. It's a wonderful experience, of the depth that you have to, reach for because just as much as you build a world, you also, you know, the worldbuilding thing that you do, the begins a little broader strokes, second season is like the minutia, like the, the pivots, the, the the darker psychological aspects. So for me, it's been, it's just been done. It almost feels like a new thing because he's gone through so many changes, so many big developments. And, it's been a wonderful, wonderful challenge. Yeah. Great. the sort of existential element the that Tolkien sort of inspires and distills into a lot of his work, especially with kind of human characters that are very fallible. And I sort of thought about, yeah, Camu has a lot of interpretation of what it means to be a rebel. I think some of these characters are quite rebellious in nature, but I think there's a quote, I think rebelliousness is a strange form of love. And I think there's sort of, in a way for Theodore especially he, he does things out of a love for the things that he's lost. And he's grieving a lot. So I think that is a sort of constant source and well, of inspiration for me, because I think I just want to tap into those existential things and, and what it means to be a human, what it means to be a man. And, and, that is, is, he's kind of eternally curious and, seeing the world, in a very different way than his elven counterparts do. So, in many ways, I have had to approach him with a completely blank slate and just complete entire curiosity for everything that he's seeing, witnessing and experiencing and very parallel experience to what, these existential questions that the humans are experiencing. So is he because he's so fascinated by them. So what are these feelings? And they feel why do they feel them with such, force? Why why do they have so much hope when they live so little time? You know, because you need to glow. Because you live forever. Exactly. But it's it's like you guys are in and out, you know, and and he's fascinated by what they they get up every day and they have hope and they have. And they forgive each other, and they create things, and they they live in heritage and and all these things. And it's fascinating to him. So for me, I have a very present process with him. I try not to over intellectualize them and just be incredibly curious about my scene. Partners are doing what's happening in the story and really observe a lot of it. A lot of it comes from just witnessing, you know, witnessing and internalizing and come on. And some characters have some parallels in a way. I mean, in Australia you have Theo Arondir. A shield or an Astrid who are all grieving inherently. And there's things that we learn from each other at different points, just by kind of existing and going through story together, which has been wonderful to kind of experience and every character deals with in their own separate way. But at the same time, it's a kind of universal collective experience. You don't have to explain yourself. Essentially, it's like a little shortcut. Yeah. Good, I get it. Yeah. Little rat pack of of, like, broken middle earth peeps. Yeah. Well, yes, troubles an interesting character in Middle-Earth who is so, so corrupted and then has this sort of redeeming end where he reflects on everything and tries to do good. And yeah, other than me pretending to be a kid in the back garden and then pretending to be Boromir, that's why I think I have such a strong connection and affinity to the man. Boromir. I am mean for you, perhaps which one is sort of his brother but 99 noble who played for me? David. David. David. Faramir. It was great. David. David. Oh, yeah. I, I just saw this so many I love I love the end and, absolutely, absolutely love the ends. Fell in love with with with them. The keeper, the keepers of the forest, such magical wise beings. Like, they're really impacting you. And I was, you know, I first got introduced to them, but very close, very close. Second is also Gandalf, which liking, you know, loving Gandalf as loving many different characters as he changes as he goes. But it's just badass. I mean, Sir Ian McKellen plays the living daylights out of this role. There's I mean, he's chill. He's, you know, authoritative is magical. He's nostalgic. Like he's kind of a stoner, you know, he's like the good you. But look, the leaf isn't is like, chilling. It's just beautiful as an actor. Wonderful, but also as a fantasy character. Just the magic of, magic. You know? Action. Yeah, I exist and true I mean I, I it's it is it has more moment I mean not more momentum is a different momentum moves through. There's a sense of urgency. And in it is a lot of these characters, if not all of them, just having these broad existential moments and questions. But then you have to adapt to very quickly, everybody's like, what these my character I on need as well. Like, why am I here? Who am I in this whole thing? Where do I go in this moment of, like, so much urgency? And what part do I play? In what needs to be done to, to essentially, keep middle earth safe. So, and I think every character also stares evil in the face. Absolutely. And it's sort of it's, it's it's it's definitely action packed and, and I think audiences are going to be on the edge of their seats. Great. Thanks guys so much for being a pleasure. thing. Just getting covered in mud. In mud. If that isn't fun, I don't know what is, and you kind of have to make it. Oh, well, we talked about covered in mud. We talked about covered in mud. There's not a there's not an inch. I just I love the people. It's like the wider they are. We were absolutely covered in mud. It was. Yeah I was it's not in the mud. It's like proper like Vermont. We were just go roll around in the mud pit over there. And at one point it was just like, here's a bucket of mud. Let's pop your head in there, and then we'll slowly take a little bit off. That's done. Yeah. It was like, go to 100% and then go from there instead of 0 to 100. Yeah. Also, I have this one great scene that I, that I, I, we watched anything. Yeah, I know Oliver, I only saw like a snippet. Oh yeah. Well I can't really say then, but I do