‘The Challenge 40: Battle of the Eras’ With Jordan Wiseley | Death, Taxes, and Bananas

[Music] ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the death taxes and bananas podcast where you can watch this episode and every other episode of my podcast now on the ringer reality tv YouTube channel and please do not forget to hit the Subscribe button when you're there so you can get every episode as soon as it's released um now we have a week off of the challenge uh so the seven people out there who actually still watch the VMAs can watch um and I'm actually I'm actually kind of shocked that I wasn't invited this year oh wait no I'm not because uh my lifetime ban from MTV award shows apparently is still uh very much in effect uh from a lot of people know this I pulled a Kanye West at the MTV video and TV Awards a few years ago and accepted an award for the challenge that I feel like we rightfully deserved it was for reality uh reality television royalty and I don't think there is a show out there that has done more and has changed the game more and has been around longer and done it harder and done it grittier and done it better than show out there so uh we didn't officially get the award but I made sure we you know kind of got an honorable mention and because of that I will never be back to an award show but I digress I should probably stop talking about this before I get a strongly worded email from the network um all right so uh this episode of the podcast is going to kind of serve as like a quarter season uh breakdown report of what we've seen thus far because there's been a lot there's a lot to unpack here because uh it's not just what we've seen it's not just what people feel like we've seen but may not have been edited properly but there's also a lot of unseen uh unseen footage questionable game decisions and uh controversial elimination outcomes which I'm sure everybody out there is so excited to hear about because I'm one of the only people that has not decided to take to Twitter and to social media uh to throw my hat in the ring um I wanted to wait until I got all the facts out there and I was able to really digest and do a full uh forensic accounting of the situation at hand uh before I got into that topic so here we are and who better uh to help me break it all down I wanted to bring someone in um who generally is known for biting his tongue usually not having much of an opinion uh accepts the outcomes of challenges and eliminations with no questions asked and apparently beat the [ __ ] out of Elvis Presley and took his outfit and wore it on the podcast today so without further Ado Let's Go Mama Jordan the jordal wisley welcome Studio yeah better watch it dude thank you about to tear out of that thing come any closer dude your your bulge is going to hit me in my face thanks for having me man yeah I wanted to get through that I I know that was a long intro I wanted to get through it because a lot it's a lot I know cuz I I I feel like I'm uncomfortable for you right now where didd you get this where'd you get this giddy up from dude this is uh this is my girls this is Diner's uh fit that she it's a it's a custom one of one fit you don't say so this isn't made for a man no dude this is actually not made for me I know I know it look like but uh I just got super lucky you know that it could wear two ways that you're built like a woman yeah got it basically um offseason baby um no yeah this is D she ward in her NASCAR suit and so when you texted me this morning you said hey buddy M it's full body so wear something crazy you wore joggers and a t-shirt okay I didn't mean I didn't know we were dressing up I didn't know it was a costume party I was just like hey like wear some underwear cuz we're not at a table this time you know uh it's in studio full body so wear something ridiculous is the word but ridiculous Jordan I the level of ridiculous I'm used to is you wearing your silk butterfly uh jogger shorts and like cowboy boots and a scarf on your head listen buddy that is day that is a daily So that obviously my ridiculous is higher than your ridiculous I didn't realize we were going Hot Wheels here you said ridiculous how can I how can I treat our friendship if I don't take your words at their value I mean you definitely did next time I mean listen I'm glad you did this Jordan I'm glad you did this because I don't care if this this could be the worst episode I put out there just the visual of you showing up in this is going to be is going to be worth it Spotify love do you know how many compliments I got walking in from Spotify like all the employees were like oh my God love your pants thank you I do too thank you pants it's like a jumpsuit yeah yeah no it's a jumpsuit but I came in uh with the arms down you know I mean you really outdid yourself here thank you yeah yeah thanks for that thanks for upstaging me dude really appreciate that I've never gotten one compliment coming in on my outfit from anyone because usually you're in your pjs I know well usually well because up until very recently this entire podcast was just audio or it was just you know from the from you know the waist up very true I'm Italian from the waist up I don't know if you know that you were you were basically in like Co attire so just just waste up and just boxers for three years so now I actually have to put some thought into what I wear I don't know if you could tell uhhuh I match the shoes to the shirt to the watch kind of yeah did you what is your watch yellow yeah ah yeah I do like that watch yellow face man yeah yeah um so what's been up man how you been how's life since uh being in Vietnam you know it's so funny uh Jordan and I so so here's what's funny about the challenge when we're there and people don't realize this we are so inoculated and isolated from anything that takes place in the outside world back home especially me cuz I don't do the phone call home thing so I don't really have that that is wild have you ever you ever talked about that because like they the audience like knows like we do phone calls and they're very limited Johnny does not make phone calls what one a year maybe wait maybe dude maybe to like kind of check in maybe re but yeah my sisters yeah I had to this year I had to call my dad this this season just because I was in Vietnam my dad fought in Vietnam most people don't know that for anyone out there because I get one of these questions every episode why are you wearing dog tags my dad fought in Vietnam in 1966 actually in a very close proximity to where we were at yeah one of the challenges that we do this season is actually basically in the village where he was stationed that's what that's what yeah you I remember you called him and you were like oh we were we were in in this city and he's like oh yeah remember they did uh RNR you know in that area yeah well no the RNR was at the uh the other spot that we do by the dunes later on in the season okay uh but yes for anyone out there who's still questioning why I'm wearing dog tags yes I know the meaning yes I know the significance of them and uh it was to honor um that's the point that's the point that that is the I'm not wearing them for a fashion honor of yes they made it back you know they literally they uh those dog tags went to Vietnam made it back and then now they've gone back to Vietnam so and everyone's like oh why don't you call home my thing is like that environment that we're in and when we're there it's so like the the pressure and and and that pressure cooker mentality is so intense that I don't want to check out of that correct I almost feel like it's like if I you know what it's like it's like if you're in a Vegas casino and you're really comfortable in the uh or I'm sorry if you're outside in the heat in Vegas you're fine at the pool but it's but as soon as you go inside and you're in the air conditioning you get used to that and then going back outside is so much more difficult y so that's once I'm acclimated to that intensity and that heat and that pressure in the house I don't want yep a reprieve I got to stay in it whenever you told me that I was like oh yeah that is the way like even from the from the jump uh after my first Rivals 2 yeah uh going to free agents my mom like called me like a week or so before we left and she was like Hey just wanted to talk to you now cuz I know you're going to you know got to like flip a switch you're going to got to go in that mode so you know just do your thing because they know we are very different in there the stresses of everything is very different and the isolation and isolation so Jordan and I both had the same Epiphany at different times uh this season so again while we're gone like we're very limited on the news that we get while we're there cuz production and you know just wants to keep us kind of in the game and in the bubble so we found out two major story headlines one is that P Diddy was on the run for child trafficking and the other one is that Kendrick Lamar and Drake uh were had a rap battle had like like basically it was like Biggie and Pac all over again and we we missed an entire cultural like happening but what and we did and the the major one that we missed and and people will say this and Taylor Swift dropped the new album while we were there remember girl the girls were I mean and some of the guys just I was yeah I'm a Swifty I mean the ARs Big Friend a lot of people know this really good friends or was haven't spoken him in a while but um because now he's on a whole another in a whole another Atmos you know atmosphere but Travis Kelce dude yeah filmed with him a few times we did the allstar game in in uh in Ohio together uh love they're they're so they're such of challenge yeah yeah yeah I hear Jason and and and his wife talk about him talk about it so it's uh that's super cool they just signed a massive podcast deal to two of them yeah um and good on them dude yeah they're uh there're some good dudes haven't met haven't met Jason but um yeah Travis is a uh Travis is a maniac dude um the one big piece of news that we missed so I got back and I was out to dinner and I was talking with a friend and she goes yeah um something about OJ Simpson dying and I'm like I was like wait a minute what OJ Simpson died and she goes yeah how did you not hear about this I'm like I've been in Vietnam I didn't hear about this dude and I literally had to text friends to be like dude you I'm thinking that I'm breaking news to people I'm like did you hear OJ Simpson died and they were like like a month ago so yesterday uh Jordan and I we went to the Chargers game their opening day game we go BS have a few have a few cocktails go to the Ritz after for some uh you know op prey drinks and Jordan tell us tell us what happened dude so we're we're sitting there and someone they're like oh yeah blah blah blah Karma you just like OJ I was like I mean what do you mean OJ they're like oh he died no he didn't and it was but it was the thing it was two girls telling me this was yesterday mind mine at least mine at least happened like I don't know a couple weeks after we got back from the show this was yesterday uh September 8 you know like and and it and no offense but I'm just like I think you guys are confusing who OJ is like the sports guy the like murderer guy he went to jail for the merch and they were like no no no yeah he went to like jail for like stealing his own merch I was like damn they really know who OJ is y and they're like oh yeah he died I'm like how of cancer I was like he never even said he had cancer and there's a there's a gentleman walking by and I go excuse me sir did OJ Simpson die the OJ simp he goes yeah while ago I go whoa and they looked at me go how do you not know that I go I was in Vietnam and it never like rang so like but the best was but the best was apparently cuz I wasn't there but I was in the bathroom but when I got back I heard the story but apparently when you said you were in Nom this old guy looked at you like dude everyone how does that wait you were in Nom not realizing you meant you were filming there like like thought you were like actually like at War it's like oh yeah I multiple people look down there's like how old are you you a n it's kind of wild if you think about it too and I've had this conversation my dad a few times where dude back in the 60s we were literally there fighting a war yeah that I thought about that constantly against I mean you know a portion of that country obviously there was there was you know the this the the North Vietnamese the South Vietnamese we were fighting against communism with the South Vietnamese but still we were there fighting an allout war and now we're there in a lot of the same areas you'll see later on this season people that we actually do a challenge um in a very sacred hallow uh War site from the Vietnam War and it's just crazy that all these years later we're there uh filming a reality t whole site too like they have all this old equipment and stuff dude and then and you can tour the whole thing and so it just it was we would be driving around we're on this bus you know we're all just sitting there just and I'm looking out I'm like dude they were this all of this this landscape is completely different was just crazy like some of the craters were like 40 foot deep like I was just like all of the uh the foliage there a lot of the vegetation has grown back but it was I mean bombed napalmed covered in uh what is it agent orange which is like that gnarly uh herbicide that like dropped all the leaves off so it's like it's crazy man with that what what that country went through and um it's just cool that we're able to to go back and you know kind of pay homage to you know what what kind of like what those people went through but also like what what our you know what our people went through as well man so anyhow uh enough about enough about that um Jordan you made a late entrance into this season I and I want to thank you okay I want to thank you for that because you gave us literally like an extra week in the hotel so anytime you think that like production like oh doesn't want to doesn't want to like throw you a bone here or there they put a whole ass show production on hold just to make sure that like your race or whatever uh you can do your race and make it so you gave us an extra week in the hotel man so thank you for that I do I hey I know you guys really appreciated that it was it was a nice um time for you guys to get acclimated I I wanted everyone ready ready you know for your arrival yeah yeah yeah yeah um I'm it it did suck that I missed the parties you did but uh you missed some good ones thank you um you know I was I was doing some I was doing some car stuff the party well it was the Invitational the one uh of my toast that never made air yeah um but but who's salty about that uh but they made I almost forgot about it so me too so when we did like the whole like intro all the eras we're like you know doing this cocktail event Gathering they're like all right everyone we got a really important video to show you now this didn't make air either really important video to show you so we're thinking like oh [ __ ] it's going to be TJ he's going to be like introducing the game we're about to get like some like major uh information this is season 40 what are they going to drop on us oh my God you're not actually in Vietnam you're going to wherever the game is for $10 million you're competing against your parents and then instead it's like Jordan pops up Jordan pops up in my [ __ ] RAC suit they hit me up they're like hey can you make a video you know cuz we're GNA like show it to them I'm like I'm I'm at the races man they're like yeah that'll be great just you know just do it I'm like all right so yeah shoot this thing and I hated it I hated the idea cuz I was like no it's going to give them so much ammunition like these guys are going to watch this thing yes like this guy guys are going to watch this thing and be like I knew it I in my mind I even told my best friend I go dude as soon as Johnny sees this he's going to turn around to everyone who goes he's gone first him first right him first we're all voting him first right and every yes and I know everyone would agree cuz that is the standard like somebody comes in late if there's in the beginning we are searching for any little thing because we all like each other there are no V well yeah there's a few I don't know if you know there's a few people out there that don't like you know what Johnny I actually forget because you know you and I have grown so much uh I can't believe that there are people out there that [ __ ] wild isn't it wild yeah but then I do remember you been around for a long time huh you've been around for a long time yeah yeah yeah I have and I've done some dirt man so but I guess people don't forgive and forget the way that I do no I know I know just get over it was it was one time I stole 200 dude get over it I'm such a forgiving person what's 275 Grand between friends between friends it's not like you're not coming you it's not like you couldn't come back and try again dude exactly it's not like I didn't give you a gift card to Applebee's blooming onions on me um you petty [ __ ] uh we'll get into that um so yeah so Jordan pops up on screen he goes oh I'll just say this everyone's like oh [ __ ] this and production's like oh no we thought this was going to great moment that's why it probably didn't show it I'm just glad it wasn't turbo I can see listen I'm glad they give you your roses man because you deserve them and you have bro you have obviously earned your stripes dude how Full Circle that statement has come aome yeah and like dude you've You've Done Dirt man you have I mean you've been there you've done that you've made a name for yourself you've become synonymous with the show I mean bro when you talk about when you talk about the Mount Rushmore dude you're always you know in the conversation and as you should be uh so seeing you even though we're like what the [ __ ] is this the fact that I'm just glad it wasn't turbo cuz I'm like I've never seen somebody get more like validation and credit for doing absolutely nothing you know I've I've spoken this I know it was it's a lot of like smoke bombs um and I know he gets a lot of these like video and such a it's such an advantage too because you don't have to sit there and like actually rebuttal you can just be like uh [ __ ] chicken and then like run and then you're like oh but come back here make a video right that they'll show and there's absolutely like on the reunion talking [ __ ] on everyone and there's no way for us to to you know yeah but argue back all in you know I think uh I think there is a world where he could he could he could find some you know I do think there's a world where he comes back and find some humility I don't even know that's humility it's just like there's a there's a way to get along this isn't Jordan you got to understand something though you think you're busy with your race schedule Turbo's an ultimate pillow fighter you know how how you know how hard it would be for him to take time off what is it ultimate the UPF UPF he'd have to take time off the UPF to come back to the challenge well training is actually pretty extensive like you can't do both no you can't really step away from golf and get back into it you can't step away from pillow fighting and and get back into it so you lose your skill you lose that that that touch and that flare so quickly in that in that sport of UPF and it's so dangerous that you that is not a chance that you're you will I mean One Clip dude could end a career you could you really could dude we've seen it guys in the ring bro especially if for using a down pillow uh think about a memory phone oh dude no I don't I don't want to think about that I thought those were banned I think that now they have some like hybrid uh feather foam things that I think you know why they got the my pillow guy to start sponsoring Mike Mike something Lindell I think they got him to start sponsoring UPF and his uh patented Phill uh apparently um is just it's it's much better for concussions yeah it's at preventing them yes yeah yeah concussion protocol in the UPF is big now so it's huge um best of luck there no that's uh that is a those those promotions are getting bigger and bigger um all right so this season's format is kind of like a battle of the seasons situation but instead of instead of obviously Seasons you're battling eras which era do you think had the most questionable representation of the era and why was it mine it is eron 2 is very eclectic very eclectic um you know what damn uh didn't you have a lot of people say no yeah I think so that has to has to be okay the the the three standouts that would have been there Kenny Evan West Kenny Evan and West yeah because it really the girl side I think is very girls is a perfect girls is I think you can't get a more accurate representation guys I'm like wait what yeah uh it was just uh it's wild with like the way all stars kind of like brings people back in the fold but it doesn't like put them on our radar right cuz we are still so separated like franchise to All Stars uh Kenny Evan Wes who who else would there be I I don't know that's what I'm saying I mean that's what's that's what's weird about 10 to 20 right yeah and that's what's weird about my era is and when I look back I'm like damn dude I really did have to carry the challenge for a while like through the Dark Ages because there just wasn't any once again once you know keny and Evans stopped doing the show um it was Bas you and West it was just kind of me and West and I guess that's why we we beefed so much yeah you know cuz you well I think you can automatically feel you know like when pressure yeah you know how it is being in the house you we talk about this with with other people as well and like they feel it when certain people walk in the house when are in the house right when you're in the house when CT's in the house in the house it's a different feel in game you know and so yeah uh I feel that whenever I come in and so yeah you two are definitely like there can only be one Highlander it would have been great I mean I would have would have loved that Bergie on on the show but um you know he's out there right now doing something very Noble something that was never done for him and that is being raised by parents so Wes way to break the cycle man all right he was left on the doorstep of a fire station and you know what raised with the Dalmation yeah dude and he's just like I'm going I'm going I'm going to break this cycle so good on him Lucy looking strong healthy love it yeah great job W cute little baby dude I know jumbo Dr I I got to say d Wes you don't do much right but somehow some way made a cute baby yeah good job yeah um still waiting for the father reveal party but that'll come one day you curly-headed [ __ ] uh all right so how did you feel about okay how did you feel about era 3 when you saw who you were were were on a squad with I mean you kind of I mean I feel like you are in a good spot uh you came in on a good spot because you and Tori have somehow I don't know how you did it managed to go from being you know in a relationship to being engaged to having a very public messy uh you know split split to then going back to now it's like you guys are just like best budge yeah yeah well because our she's tied in and again she's tied in with with every era cuz I mean she's just she has a great social game she hasn't taken any Seasons off so yeah I could tell coming in that was going to be the hard part before eras 2 three and four era one didn't really have those like social relationship right like they were just kind of riding on Legends other than CT no they do no no I think I think out of everyone I think that arowana has the most history they're the most like a family dude where no no no amongst themselves yes I mean like like because era three you know Tor and but Josh and Casey connection outside like a spider yes yes they had so much that I was like hm we're really in the thick of this and I feel a little insulated right because just must be nice well the thing is like coming in with uh on team team challenges that actually suits me right because as much as you want to get rid of me you need me MH right this is this is literally what happened in the very first right in the invitation is why Tony went in cuz at early you're like well [ __ ] if we win we stay safe and all of us are good yep and I can help do that I'd probably say better than all of them and so now it's like they you know it's like you need me so it's but they have to play this fine game of you can't go for too long this is and I learned this in free agents that this is your Su this was your your was and is your superpower where people need you in the game for the connection stuff but they can't have you there to long because the longer you're in the game The More Steam and momentum you pick up Yeah the more you know like more entrenched you get yes yes and so that I was just you know I'm just looking at this like well it's kind of like a tick like when you see a tick you can't let it burrow in too deep you got to get rid of it when it only sucks a little blood yes yes so obviously that was my free agent tactic and it didn't work but I understood I was like okay there's this fine line and there's going to be a switch what's funny though about that um is I feel like if you look at people and I'd say you myself and CT are all the when we're in a house like you were saying before we're the ones that really do draw the most attention and people are stuck in this well we need him around for now to help us we don't want to rock the boat too early but we don't want them here at the end but what I tend to find is unct that seems to last a lot longer than it does for me oh yeah and I don't understand why because I get I'm a threat but I'm no bigger of a threat in the game than the two of you and that's what I'm saying is like I come in and I'm like especially with rookies people that I have a pass with people have a history with I get it because you're like all right this has got to like you know there there's a history here one of us going to strike first but with rookies I've always wondered why I'm like guys instead of coming in and like banding together against me why don't you guys try to like work with me and I found again whether it was the challenge us say I mean walk in all 18 of the CBS people or 16 many they were right away teeing off on me I'm like there's bigger threats here guys like like what are we doing here's the deal dude heavy is a head that wears the crown yeah but when you have been the guy right and like dude nobody you cannot say the challenge without somebody going even if they don't watch it they go oh yeah with that guy Johnny Bananas right like you are the one so when these rookies come in i' I uh I'd say 90% of the rookies that come in they're just like got to get that guy because your Legend is so big to them that they have to get you um and they want that fish on the wall they want that trophy yeah but then I do see the other side um there are some some guys that come in and they like they do see this thing of like hey I should befriend him and like kind of work kylin did not say one and I met kylin outside the show did not say one word to me until like week three and when he did it was like every conversation I had with him it was like like he'd be sitting there like full guard mode up like what is just he's and he's calculating I don't know what he's saying but whatever it is with all new guys I mean I knew Theo obviously era 4 and you know I have a relationship with Josh and I and I've known Jenny forever but it seemed like dude whether it was it was like Avery and um uh again kyland roasio narice Olivia all these people that I'm just like guys like I I don't get like where yes there's I get like that I'm not necessarily you know uh you know playing on your guys' squad but I'm not necessarily against you as you can see I've got my own fish to fry dude like episode one when we did the Invitational and Laurel and I come out on top the fact that so many people were just mystified and dumbfounded by the fact that we were going to say Cara blows me away that one's it's kind of like guys this is come on this is a Playbook and this just tells me that this is why fans cannot separate the game from their emotions and their feelings and this is why 99% of the fans out there that want to throw an opinion out on social media would be terrible at this game because what I've learned is and it's taking a while but what I've learned is you do not make emotional decisions in this game no there have been times that I've been in a house where I'm like I cannot stand this person I can't stand to look at them hear them talk be around them but does this person pose a threat to me in the game if the answer is no then it's like you know what strategically this other person is a bigger threat I need to go after them yeah but the car situation it was like I don't have a relationship with her have not had a relationship with her in years Laurel and her have obvious beef I've got other girls on my team that I'm either better friends with or like in the a situation doesn't have anyone is already basically you know kind of said she's going to ride with me yeah how does comes in like that that's like talented like she is yeah like that that you you you are correct it it is emotion and I as someone who does make emotional decisions sometimes because like I yeah buddy you know but uh it's dumb I I I do know that you know what I mean I don't I don't make those decisions that I'm like ah this is the best thing now no no no it it's still not the best thing it's dumb but I just want to prove a point and it's not good and you can't do that all the time like I'm very choosy when that happens and but this is what this is this is one of those plays that it's kind of like if you let her and from your guys' point of view and perspective if you let Cara get steam she becomes harder and harder yeah to to get out later the other thing is she has a she's really good at rallying she is like she she can rally people great so like after years of watching her be able to do that you can't not you can't just throw that out and be like oh no no no it's going to be fine and that's my and and that was the other thing that was like so annoying about this whole narrative that they pitched the first few episodes where where it's like oh my God here's this here we go again it's everyone against Cara I'm like Carl the entire house has your back just because Laurel and I don't that doesn't mean like you have everyone else on your side it just happened to fall into a situation where the two people that you don't get along with or or or don't have a relationship with happen to win and happen to hold your fate in their hands the wor it was just the worst scenario for her yeah and which and then the highest probability outcome happened everything went by the numbers so yeah the the The Narrative of like this is CRA like how could you like everyone's against me my entire track record says so yeah let me tell you a little bit about what it's what it's like to have everyone against you because it happens to me every season um so the team format and again going back to like there's been times where we've had team formats this is what another thing I think a lot of people are are get twisted the team the the term team is such a loose term cuz we're not actually a team m-m it was like on World of Worlds 2 when we were on a team together yes we're on a team but we're all playing with different people we're only on a team in between uh challenge horns yes right from the start of the challenge to the end of the challenge that we're on a team because we need to work together y for that particular thing but as soon as it and you saw it with with USA as soon as the horn blew to finish and we knew we had won it we immediately fractured and these people wanted to be tribunal and like it's not a team and even in these games even when it's like Battle of the Season stuff like that you always have to play it uh what if the worst happens worst is you lose and now it's you or x amount of people right it's either you or someone else or it's you or of of like four people but now the game you are no longer a team it is self-preservation yeah or it's you're working with other teams and this this like goes back to World of Worlds too right and like you just said like yes you're there competing as a team to win sometimes you're not sometimes you're competing as a team to lose okay great great say we were here cuz we it's kind of been touched upon like a little bit but like let's let's hit it because this gets asked me is it okay to throw challenges 100% I say 100% yes yes it yes like it you don't want to see it's like uh watching a football team lose because they want the first draft pick next year where they're like well our season's already [ __ ] so we're going to lose the next two games right I mean they can't say that right I think there's rules against it but it's we are doing it for strategy exact right nobody had a problem with me throwing the The Challenge on free agents to go against you y exactly because it got them a good outcome you know what I've never thought about that before talk about that moment Jordan what happened for those people who don't know what you're referring to so uh the the whole thing was if you got last yeah we were wrapped in a burrito but the the way the format worked was if you got if you were in the last four you went into the draw then the house would go vote on somebody who has to go in and it could come out of the draw like you could pick one of those people but it was everyone who wasn't a winner Zach won that day so you were on the board and I go oh well if I just before the challenge even started I go well if I just lose and I'm in the draw and I get everyone to vote for him so he's in there no matter what I'll go to the draw I told everybody in the draw I go let me go first cuz remember everybody wanted to go first cuz you have the biggest chance of not getting it I go let me go first and I'll I'll I'll I'll settle this and they're like all right Leroy he was like yeah right bro like just trust me dude and yeah so then I go in there and flip all the cards we go and have an epic showdown and people loved it it was what a plan I can't believe you fall do that so awesome I couldn't believe you did it either I had heard that you were going to throw the and not before the cards like that like your your your move to throw the challenge was almost like just as ball is flipping over the cards if not more because and I remember you saying you were going to do it they wrapped us all in cellophane we had to roll through the sand they blow the horn Jordan doesn't even move didn't move I sat up and just watched the race didn't even move I'm like this [ __ ] this when I hated you I'm like I I couldn't like as if I couldn't hate you anymore you did that I'm like this dick then you flip over all the cards I mean we know the history after that but you're right man like and I feel the same way we're going to get into it with the Jordan I mean with the Derek and haasio elimination where I feel like there's selective outrage I feel like when certain people they feel like certain people um you know get the short end of the stick or certain people you know make a move that's maybe a little bit like you know unsavory then it's they they they you know light torches and they're outside their sa other people do it and it's like oh this is the greatest move ever the champion that yeah it's championed is like oh brilliant you're like I mean I did that three seasons ago and you guys hated it yeah no it is strategy and this is what people don't again the other thing that fans don't realize is and even TJ falls into this trap sometimes where he starts like throwing his two cents and it's like TJ you don't understand the game that we're trying to play and you don't understand that yes you know what this game is all about positioning your pieces this is chess it's chess positioning your pieces so when the time comes you're in a better position with your pieces than they are and sometimes eliminating threats and getting rid of people where then the the power is going to sway more onto your side again going back to World of Worlds 2 when we had the plan to throw the challenge that way we could get ninja in and potentially against against car Maria in the in the uh elimination which I did not know about beforehand but and we would I Zach did and uh we were going to then by doing that one of them would be gone and that would 100% then sway the power into our we would now have the num and it was such a season where numbers you hear this more in some Seasons than other this was a season that the numbers meant everything one other like suede it changed everything and that's literally like for as much as people hated that if you go back and run it the other way you guys now make yourself safe for the entire season if one of them goes home so it now sways the entire season from being Paulie and car running everything which you already knew from Seasons past your case study is already telling you that Paulie is going to try and make a name for himself and come for bananas he's literally set at this time he's literally saying it I'm I'm taking out this guy right and so you're not going to sit there and be like all right buddy no W up like no no you take you take those shots you when you know someone's Com when you know someone's coming you don't wait you don't wait for them to make the first move you try and do it first and that's what we tried to do and it's so funny everyone's like oh my God bananas you tried to throw a challenge you're goddamn right I did because by by doing that then now it didn't work out unfortunately but you want to know where the I feel like the even bigger mistake was on World of Worlds 2 picking turbo over CT when we when we got partners and you know what at the time I listened to like like we were sitting there and and he had just did the season before and I was like I don't know him like is he good I know CT and he can be hard to deal with sometimes like just because he can sway so many people so I'm like so we should just go with the guy who helps us win daili you know bad decision the way I looked at it is again I know how good CT is at the game and I know how disruptive he can be and how good he can be on a team at like basically helping the team implode so the way I saw it was if we put him on the other team he's gonna He he'll destroy that team from from within and at the time I thought I was like you know Turbo's got some Integrity if he's going me this team I think he'll be much more trustworthy and that could not have been a bigger miscalculation because he ended up being the most annoying [ __ ] person I think that like bro the way here's the thing the challenge is a game at the end of the day it's a game yes and you have to sometimes make deals and you or sometimes you have to make deals you have to you know manipulate you have to be conniving you have to you know uh um it's a political game so you have to get votes you have to it is all positioning yourself the art of this game is staying out of trouble yep and what he would do cuz you were there we'd have our deliberations and he would just sit there in the back and not say a word and wait until he saw exactly where the numbers were he'd be the last to vote and he would always go on the side of the numbers and then he'd turn around and be like I don't play a shady game because it's like you never have to you don't play the game you don't you don't play it you just you he he would just say uh he would literally have to go who who's who's got who's the number they like oh we're voting Theo he go okay Theo so by Laurel going home on technicality which again I think there's a lot of of of um I think there's a lot of parallels that can be drawn between that elimination and what we just saw with Derek and rasio listen I guess we just got to understand now if there's pegs involved in an elimination there's going to be controversy yeah but by Laurel going home on that the numbers then were basically 50 tied and then turbo become became the Swing Vote correct and then because turbo was mad at Nani for for cheering for Laurel yep he then to to get back at her voted with Paulie and that side and Cara and then that's what put the numbers in in that favor had he not been there had it been CT might have been a different story I it I think it definitely is it's just yeah it it definitely is um okay parallels between Laurel's elimination and Osio and Dereck we'll get into that yeah we'll get into that because it I mean it is kind of like yeah the the the principles are kind of there for for both of them before we get into that because that's what we're going to spend the Lion Share of of this on there was some other there was some some some other uh controversy some things that need to be I guess addressed uh when it comes to you myself Laurel that Derek that whole situation that kind of led up to the to the Derek and horio situation trivia yes yeah we're up there at the end yep was there kind of an understanding in a way way that it's like hey man I mean this is Deon this is Devon's favorite move Devon's favorite move is to wait until everybody else is gone and then he he loves to cut last minute deals yes and then he will do it out loud in front of everyone too B on pure necessity Cory's a one of these two yeah but when we were up there and it basically just came down to I think it was just you me Laurel Derek you guy and then I think Ana was still up we knew that she was probably going to I was just run the numbers I was like I mean I can get this like they have to answer one she has to answer one and then like the odds of somebody falling so yeah yeah so because here here's the way that I saw it I'm like Laurel we don't want this smoke dude like let like put this on like put this on them put this on Jordan like to make this decision because I don't want to this early on be mixed up in this situation now where I have to start basically you know taking shots at like people close to me because I knew coming to this season was going to be different than any other season that I've done in recent memory because I have so many other connections I'm really close with Derek obviously you and I you know have done a lot of Seasons together and I feel like there's you know some trust and some camaraderie there um but then when it got down to it somehow someway you forgot Cheyenne's name whose baby shower you just went to it wasn't I didn't go to Cheyenne's baby shower didn't or what was it Cory said you just went to what was it oh I've never been to Cheyenne's baby shower she didn't say that's what he said on the show he goes he was just at my something wasn't a baby shower maybe it was you go to some event oh for him and Taylor oh him and Taylor but yeah but I never I've never done a show with SH and and and actually it wasn't Cheyenne's name I almost said I was about to say like Sylvia or it was I was like there's a partner or something I I truly did not know cheyen however if I would have stepped back and just been like Corey Devon and what I do remember after it happened they were literally talking about that season and Cheyenne being his partner I didn't know what at that time I didn't know what season they were talking about and then when they used the season title there I was like uh I don't know I truly didn't know that however I had already in my mind checked out and reserved to I'm good I'm good and I I also knew with Ana being down there there that was going to be very hard but that was going to be to say Ana's name would be very hard and cause a riff between my team I.E Dave and Dave and then but Laurel's my my homie yeah you know like like we ride I mean she rode for you yeah yeah not that and listen I obviously especially this early on in the game didn't want to take a big swing but I'm looking at this matchup and I'm like dude if we can get Jordan and rasio in there the there is 100% certainty that one of them is going home but obviously Laurel see here's what people don't realize just because you're working with one person doesn't mean that the relationships that you have and the relationships that they have are the same either this is such a good point this is such a good point and Laurel is the perfect like uh example of that because you two are very close and she and I are very close you and I always have slightly a slightly different like strategy going on right and yeah so we'll we'll get to certain times like I got to certain times where I'd be like yo I really would rather you say this but I knew I could ask that of her because you are up there and it's like so that's because that's because that's the the the that was what we ran into and I was like dude if it was anybody else if it wasn't Derek I would 100% be you know with this with this plan but you know as well as I do that once Laurel makes up her mind and once she makes up a decision you're not swaying her and I always like oh dude you're such a [ __ ] I'm like you know what here's the deal I I I would rather lose a battle and win the war yes you know I know when to and I know when to like stick my sword in the ground and that this is not a hill I'm willing to die on and your team needs L like like you guys like you know it's early we needed her and I needed her and I though needed to stay on the same page as well because again I know that there's all this Laurel hate and all this Laurel negativity out there but I mean dude like when it comes to being a competitor and when it comes to having someone you want in your corner I don't care how people feel about her as a person when it comes to competition there is nobody that you want out there you know with having your back or or competing with you more so than her also it's totally agree and one of the things that makes her I think contribut to that is loyalty is so big to her both ways right cuz she will give it and she will be loyalty and ride and protect you and but as soon as you are like disloyal to her it like she it we're kind of like seeing I think that's like the big thing with like her and car right it's just it's deeper than just this surface stuff there's a loyalty like they've had trust with each other and it's been broken and so it it sends them into a whole different realm do you think speaking of Laurel and car do you think that the I guess the narrative that that that that they've ran this season about their relation ship friendship whatever do you want to call it do you think it's it's fair because what I think a lot of people AR still aren't factoring in is the history these two have and just it's really and and it's really difficult to see Snippets and bits and pieces that they choose to show where yes Laurel looks like the aggressor to completely I mean make her look like like a monster dude I I really really hate and disagree with the narrative that Laurel is a bully because and I I use this analogy on on my live where I was like guys anybody who has a sibling and that sibling's just been poking you and poking you and poking you and then you reach back and go [ __ ] and then they yell for Mom you get in trouble right because they're cry and it's l didn't just walk into a room and start going boom boom boom so that's what I want people need to understand that you do you are not seeing everything and you everything is not on this show everything that happened was not in Vietnam we are talking about years of of stuff that that is between them so it's almost like the person that can get under your skin the most is a sibling 100 you bro don't fight anyone like you fight your siblings cuz they know your triggers they know what to say and it doesn't even take here's the other thing it doesn't even necessarily take something verbal correct yes a a an iroll yeah a certain like the body and especially you know women read body language so well and there so much I hate um and listen I'm not saying that when listen because I've had you have too and it happens this season I've had my dust ups with Laurel that she when she goes for the jugular she does not hold back I mean she goes absolute scorched Earth dude when she to the point where I'm even like whoa dude that was a lot and I know not to cross her sometimes because I just don't want that smoke but again it's like there is you know there is something I feel like there's this there's an antagonism that that also is not necessarily being being addressed and and car's very good at that Cara is very good because she do she's done it to me yeah she's done it to a lot of people where it's like she's very good at like poking you but making but but doing it in a very like kind of like secret way and then when you snap it's like oh my God what did I do it's like in the NFL kind of going back back to what you said the the guy who Strikes Back is always one that gets the penalty yes there'll be a push there'll be a cheap shot and then it's the reaction that the refs see cuz they don't see the initial one and I almost feel like that's kind of the situation again do I think that Laurel's reactions sometimes are a little bit over the top and do I think they're they're they're kind of wild 100% but again both both of them are playing a role in this for for as much as Cara as an only child she is very good at being a younger sibling you know what I mean those the ability to just in body language and triggers yeah and you know the other thing every and people do this on on all Vanderpump was scand theal this last season of The Love Island I don't know if you watched it but like with you know Aaron just being a total [ __ ] Maniac running around with his dick out then they get all this hate and negativity and it's like some of it deservedly so but we wouldn't be talking about the show if it didn't happen correct and I feel like with this season this Laurel Carmia rivalry it's like as much as we want to sit there and we want to nitpick it we also have to sit back and be like you know what it's also good [ __ ] TV and if it wasn't for that storyline if it wasn't for that history and if it wasn't for both of them being willing to Showcase that and bring that out into the public we're they know that that is a chance before they come and that that is that's what scares a lot of us you know that they know that that is a very high probability that you're going to get into very vulnerable stuff and that's why the fans watch and the thing is it does influence and did influence the game yeah 100% And and my thing is like again and we'll get into this more because I really do feel like the fan the te account fan Stan page interaction has never been more of a fever pitch and there's so much that they don't understand about the game and about what you see what you're seeing as a fan and even as us cuz sometimes I watch I'm like that's not how it happened you're watching edited version it's this is not reality people it's called reality TV but what you're watching is not reality what what you're watching is the most is is an edited version um that has been you know that has been filtered down into whatever the most controversial heated most friction heavy take incendiary storyline could possibly be and a lot is left out so you're watching this and you're like oh my God I can't believe this happened I can't believe this person said that I can't believe I watched and it's like you have to understand that what you're watching isn't necessarily reality and you got to just watch it and be like you know what just watch it as a fan and and and you know do your best to keep your opinions to yourself what I say to that too people are like oh it's is is it real is it not is it real and I go no it it's we are it's real emotion with imaginary circumstance a great way to put it it it like we are feeling everything for real but I wouldn't give a there was no possible way you and I would be tiing if we didn't have a vote now placed in front of us that is a circumstance that is just being placed there to create real emotion and then take another 10,000 fet up that is now edited to your point context is key a lot of things are left out to where it just looks yep you know I don't I don't know whatever the the word is after for each thing you the other thing is the other thing is um people this isn't life or death these relationships are and and I feel like now we've gotten to this point where it's like I'm team so and so or I'm team so and so and instead of it just being like yo like let's just watch this for what it is and it's a show and it's a game you can have people that you root for but then you get into these these situations where now you're like the grading people people and now you're like trying to like actually like hurt a person like in real life and it's like yo we put ourselves out here for entertainment purposes I've said this my entire life the John Devan anio that you know and that you've hang hung out with in a lot of ways is not the Johnny Bananas that's on TV the the [ __ ] Jordan animal that I've competed against on the show and watched absolutely light the entire house on fire is not the same guy that like I hang out with you know off the show and what people need to realize is that a lot of us when we go on we are a more colorful more volatile more over-the-top out loud version of ourselves because that's what makes good TV and what people need to do is yes you can CR critique and criticize that person you see on TV but you need to understand that that's not necessarily the person that that that it you know that you're trying to affect their life outside of this show I love when fans have opinions on the game and and you know some people love Aon Rogers and some people of Tom Brady sick some people like Jordan some people like bananas um but the the getting nasty the like the bringing people's personal stuff into it that's where it gets it I'm just like damn man it's weird dude I I don't know when we I don't know when that happened cuz it was never like that back in the day social media just you used to be able to talk [ __ ] you used to be a like these funny fun fun rivalries it's not like that anymore and I think a lot of it is because there are now these accounts Pages whatever that have now dedicated ated their entire existence to stoking the Flames causing controversy and what happens is I don't think they're necessarily to blame because it's like everyone wants to see that I think the people who blame are the cast members who have now fallen into that trap to be like oh if I want to get attention if I want to get validation if I want to get some sort of um engagement I need to feed the beast I need to say something controversial I need to spill some tea I need to put something out there that has been said I need to take this controversial take because they know then that those accounts will pick up on it and post it and they'll get their little bit of Engagement it you know from from doing it it's the quintessential like uh you can do something cheap and fast but it won't last yes right and when I went in on 39 and and TJ was like you have anything to say to him my message I hoped that got across was buy into the game not the toxic little interactions outside that that get you a bunch of reposts and comments for that one but buy into the game and stop hiding your conversations right like stop make if you're going to make a shady deal you need the camera to see it you need and like and people are too scared to look like a villain on teleion and that's what I mean by you got to sell if you're going to do something Shady [ __ ] own it do it and be that guy it's called Arc people and it goes back and forth one season you can be the heal one season you can be the hero but they go in and they try and like be Hush Hush they don't want you know the camera to see these because they don't want the audience to know that they're making Shady deals behind their friends back and I'm like no no no that is how you create yeah so again to wrap up that point dude I just think that you know just when it comes to everything people listen just understand you can have your opinions all right if you want to you know be on team so and so that so be it I'm the same way there's certain people on TV that like I root for I root against keep it within the parameters of the show though when we start like actually trying to psychoanalyze people outside this is how they are this person should have never been born this is the worst thing that's ever happened to the [ __ ] world it's like guys this is we're we're entertainers and we're here to do a very difficult job and just understand that we're human beings too we have feelings I I have a couple I do too yeah I mean they're buried way down under like suppressed so deep mountains of calluses bro I'm it's so deep I've always said this when I die I want to donate my brain to science just so they can study what the longterm side effects of reality television are in the human yeah yeah what is the difference what mush are we going to have in the center in there yeah mush my brain probably is like dude I don't even know what it would look like it probably looks like an old pair of boots from World War II it's been beat up just just broken synapses all over place [ __ ] gum stuck to the soul being stuck together with bubblegum uh Tony's exit paperclip in there Tony's exit was a bit another big controversial moment um what's your take because you know Avery obviously we know Tony uh it's weird there's two schools of thought it's like all right Tony wanted to like he said his his version was I want him not make a scared move I've made this deal with Colin and Casey therefore I need to send in Derek and aiv right oh yes yeah aiv is who um but Avery's like no I have a 10 year long relationship with Derek I'm going to send myself down there and Tony's like hey I'm going to nominate myself for team captain put put myself at risk we knew what it meant like when when people were like oh I mean you did that and didn't know we've played this game so we all knew what it meant it meant you the captains would reap the reward of winning and also have to uh deal with the consequences of losing we knew that we just didn't know what those consequences were yep so when I had Tony on that was basically what because because I have my suspicions too I'm like dude we know on All Stars you got your brother to make the call you had to get out of there early you came into this one and you just made one questionable move after the next nominating yourself to go in then when you're safe you won so you're safe you then make a decision that's still a head scratcher because it's like you don't know kylin and Casey okay and I understand okay you think that by by by not throwing them in it's going to Cur you some sort of a favor but you're I don't know where you are on their list in their totem pole but then you say you want to make a big move you want to make a big game move throwing them in would be the big game move that's absolutely like the bigger game move is throwing in them yeah it's not it's not going against to yeah so to then stalemate nominate yourself to go in and then and I get it Dell had a lot of help but at the same time dude hold on what do you mean derell had a lot of help what the [ __ ] were Devon and I doing the whole time yeah say saying exactly what they were it it wasn't like we were silent like [ __ ] you Tony we literally wanted to win and then finally after 30 minutes of watching this rumbling bumbling stumbling idiot and thing is Tony's smart yeah Tony is smart like they like he he kind of gets this rap dud he he works with numbers and construction and [ __ ] all day like he's smart he knows how to to figure things out and when he just wasn't listening like literally like blatantly kind of go again we were just like yeah we all got silent at the end you know where we were just like all right well you're obviously I don't something feels weird you put two blocks down MH I think the most he ever had down was like four remember he'd like put four and he goes oh no that's wrong and go pick all of them up again he restarted like seven times yeah and that and that's what I'm saying it's it's just difficult at the bare minimum copy [ __ ] derell and you're just go with him and you're one piece behind and then race the last one derell just blew out his bag you could win that race yeah yeah yeah that I that was where I when he was didn't when derell had three qus of his thing and he wasn't even he didn't even start just copying that that's when I was like yeah he he wants out he wants out I I don't know right um did he say he did no no he said he didn't he said he just he said he said that he felt like strategically um throwing K throwing Casey and Colin a bone keeping them out would then put him in their good graces but at the same time it's like but dude you now sacrificed yourself for them and now you ended your game dude over that like they listen dude I I don't get it and I there was some comparisons made it was like oh well Derek said well if if uh you know or or I'm sorry Tony said well Derek if you were such a good friend why didn't you nominate yourself to go down Avery's place but then someone said well Tony why didn't you do that when Zach tried to tried to but that's that's not hows so I'm just saying man listen I don't think there's anyone on the show that I would be like you know what I got this I'm going to stalemate and take this one for you sorry love everyone got some good friends on here ain't happening so that's what I'm saying like and that's even with like people that are like my really close Best Friends someone I don't know like Tony doesn't know yeah it it would take a uh a really weird like a really tough situation for that to happen like and it would have to be like a season to season thing of you'd have to be deep in the season someone has already taken a bullet for you yeah you you and you owe a big one this is not a move to start a relation it's a game that you know cuz that game you knew if you had crowd help on your side you're going to win that yeah you're going to win that yes I thought it was a head scratcher and again he tried to play blame it on him not being good at puzzles he's like you saw me on the era Invitational but uh yeah I was like come on dude yeah leads us right into okay you can you can maybe you can throw we throwing challenges is okay I guess throwing eliminations and now let's go controversial eliminations then we got our controversial elimination and this is what everybody dude I've in all my years all the challenges I've done I have never seen this much I mean fanfair hoopla bro over one elimination decision dude like you think that this was an elimination loss you think that like this was someone's going to the like the death penalty whoever loses yeah yeah it has definitely I mean I think there's just like a there's um like a climate you know it's like a weird climate right now around just like do you want know what I think the climate is rules and [ __ ] well okay that's that's part of it here's the other here's the other climate that I think that we're in right now as well I because if you look at where a lot of this Venom is coming from and a lot of the [ __ ] barking and a lot of the noise it's all coming from the era 4 the newest generation of people who just so happen to be the most vocal on social media and their followers and their fans also happen to be the most vocal on social media they also happen to be I think the generation that requires the most amount of attention and validation valid from social media so it's almost like what's happened now is if you can create something that's controversial if you could come up with the topic if you could spill some sort of Te You Come Out Create clickbait a good a good you know headline because dude I could sit here bro I'm I'm telling you right now this entire podcast if you and I had the most indepth enlightening uh conversation not one second of it would make it on to one of these these te Pages the second we start talking about something controversial guess what that's when to get that's what's going to get clipped and that's going to put out there people know that it's Med baby it's media and I totally understand that the problem is when the clickbait that you're using is is basically undermining the Integrity of the show and kind of in a way biting the hand that feeds you we've both been burned bro you have and I have but we've both benefited in the past as well oh yeah going back cuz I was thinking about this before we did this and I'm like all right what times is cuz I know I have but what times is has this benefit and this worked against Jordan it benefited you I remember on on um X's 2 when you went against uh I'm not X's 2 Rivals 2 when you when when you went against Zach and Zach and what was his partner's name the little [ __ ] guy uh oh oh oh um oh man you know what I'm talking about yeah Trey Trey Trey they had to bust through the levels and the rule was you couldn't do the same person couldn't do two levels correct and uh Zach did the first level jumped down and then did the second level they up winning we all thought that they won you thought that they won no no they were going against uh tyan Leroy I went I went against uh Knight and that's rightest T Leroy but you guys also that's why I got confused there are but yes this is one of those things they went through first yeah I remember you tried to run through the door and you almost [ __ ] blew your shoulder out dude but they went through two levels whatever what ended up happening was everyone thought that Zach and Trey won including them cuz Zach hit you with your helmet that's right hit you with his helmet they reviewed the tapes and they're like after review the the same person kicked through two floors MH and because of that they're dced and they gave the win rightfully so totally to Ty Leroy then when you and Marlin went against Leroy and Tai I remember spe you guys went in that Hall brawl situation yes and the rule was you could the the the two Defenders could only defend each other right and what ended up happening I remember was Marlin ended up basically holding tie down so he wasn't able to get up and then you ended up ringing the bell and we're like dude that was against the rules and they like still let it fly and you guys and you guys from yeah it was something weird like and I hated you at the time so I was like the most vocal one about that yeah yeah I mean in my circumstance dude I've been burned I mean dude the I said this before the elimination I did with Devin uh light bright we were given two different sets of rules I had to hold my button for 5 seconds he couldn't hold his longer than 5 seconds and because he was given that you can't hold it for more than 5 seconds he was able to run back and forth a lot more times take more trips he ended up winning that guess what dude I knew in the moment this sucks you know what I didn't do after take the Twitter and post my feelings and say it's like you know what you win some you lose some dude I know I you know what it's hard because I am you know I kind of I get a little vocal sometimes when I feel yeah you know I mean like like 39 you know in the in the elimination with uh I didn't what 39 there was a season 39 uh it was it was like a leap year thing I think you sabatical yeah um no yeah and it just like it was like you know they didn't show two whole rounds and it really made me look like I was just giving him points just to be a [ __ ] and then I was like No And so that is where my issue is cuz I'm I'm with you and I and I love using uh Sports analogies and so um let's take like Replay in sports 90% of the time it's a it's great it catches the right thing sometimes times even replay is wrong right the refs are wrong all right way way more than that right but even replay when they're going back and looking at because sometimes it is subjective on like how you're looking at it who's looking at it whatever and so that is kind of what we're see that's what we see with with the it's like we're the same and here's the other thing and I and I like using Sports analogies as well but the reason the challenge is different than Sports is sports the the x's and the O's are always the same if you're a football referee you know the rules you you you know the game you know how the game Works Baseball hockey whatever years what's unique what's different about the challenge and what makes it so difficult I think to ref yes they build 50 challenges and eliminations a season we're doing these in foreign countries dude where they've never built this apparatus before they're probably never going to build it again unless it's like a hall brawl or something like that but a lot of them the more janky uh and I like I don't like to say the word janky but the more like you know riggy type ones that are you know throwing balls catching stuff swinging whatever because I mean you think like even the the physics behind that like they had to sit there time and make sure their angles and distances were all correct so that the balls rolled at the same time it's a lot we're also in Vietnam yeah it's not like you got depos right there you saw the guys sometimes are putting these things together we like local we are local we use local labor the guy sweeping the sand doesn't realize that he has to start from the inside out because after he's done sweeping he's going to walk out and footprint is going to be there again yeah simple [ __ ] like that like we're like all right these guys you know now we have an amazing art Department I think they do a fantastic job putting these these things together but again we don't do if we did challenge if we did survivors type eliminations where it's a poll and you have to stand on it great point or you had to just sit there with your hands out easier those are easy to ref with ours there's so many moving Parts there's so many things happening at once that dude it's really difficult sometimes in the moment to get the right call right however going back to replay I really do think and especially in this game that they made the right call and here's why everyone's getting lost in the sauce where they're looking at these clips and they're looking at like oh but the peg was in the board then it wasn't and he placed his Peg first and the pegs fell out and they weren't there in the end and that doesn't matter the whole object of this game was throwing a ball as it rolled down collecting pegs putting your pegs in the board or it didn't matter if there was even a [ __ ] board you could have put them in a basket whoever got all 40 of their pegs over the line now there might have been a little bit of confusion because it's like oh do I put them back is production going to put them back both sides and this is males and females benefited from production helping put pegs back in the board but this wasn't necessarily for the game to help them this was just from an Optics perspective and to help the competitors realize how many more pegs do I have to go and I think this is what a lot of people don't understand is it's been said and it has we watched this happen Ross's ball got stuck didn't go down they had to come and shake the apparatus to get it go down but in that time he had picked up five pegs right no he he was standing there holding them he was about to catch I think he had four he ended up getting another one on the way back though because he went with five okay so but so he but he did stand there for that time and go hey Hey cuz I understand you're like well with your ball up there longer you could pick up more I would have picked up 50 yeah but you also don't know when it's going to start rolling again and like I would have done the I would have stopped like oh it's broken I have to stop because I'm just so conditioned like okay Games Stop The Whistle is going to be blown it wasn't um it's like that that sucks um so here's what they did and and and again that wasn't not factored that wasn't that wasn't not factored in okay because this is the other this is the other point I want to make you can't watch an eliminate especially elimination round you can't watch it and watch the CP Clips chronologically because there's no a lot of times there's not continuity so they'll show a clip maybe in the and for coverage purposes they'll show something happened earlier on later on and they'll show something later on happened earlier on which is like oh well it looked more finished now than it was then or this wasn't there this was out of place this block was okay because again for coverage purposes you can't watch it chronologically and be like well in this Frame the peg was there in this Frame it wasn't at the end the peg was out when did it fall out it's like all that matters is all 40 of Derek's pegs work picked up and they were placed on his side on his board there before paraso let me let me ask you this what if uh so they had like a they had that rope line and then the after that yeah what if uh they had a basket that was behind the roeline and they they go all right put your pegs in in their basket right and uh Derek has all of them in the basket but one is on the ground and then and then calls finish so what happened though if you watch so we gave them an apparatus y literally to one help you keep track helps the refs keep track also because it's hard to just look at so just because you called check we have to sit there and go no that's not how it works right you people call wrong check all the time and so to me the holes were there because it tells you what is left yeah and when he when they at the end they got to the end and he goes they stopped it we all go oh there's one missing but it wasn't it was just out of the hole and sting and sitting on and that's the other thing that that I wish they would have shown this and I think this would put this entire debate to so okay this is where I get so frustrated just show it yeah just give me an insert of the peg actually being there and then TJ goes well guys that Peg was actually on the board meaning Derek got 40 across in a faster time that is the rules and this is it give us an explanation if you don't want the narrative to go sideways you need and and I this is kind of what I go off in the challenge too is because even in that moment it took 30 plus minutes for them to come back and give us an answer because they are back there watching the tape they are watching times they're they're checking everything they're checking all the Angles and in that entire time and then so we we at nothing it is silence they are literally told to ignore us when we're trying to ask questions what's going on this or that then when they come out they just go you know TJ just reads off he goes results no why no anything no no none of that granted you don't have to tell us you don't football after after replay you know after watching the what they say they say we actually saw that the ball did hit the ground that's an incomplete pass thank you thank you for explaining that and now we're all we're all on the same boat when you leave it uh for everyone I yes that I think that's my only grip with it is because I understand both sides yeah I understand both sides here's here here's here's the the point that I want to make though and this is what I think would have put this entire debate to bed and I have a sneaky suspicion that there will be a lot of uh Smoking Gun evidence at some point seeing the light of day um because this has been such a controversial thing and I think the Integrity of the show is important and fans and cast members alike have to know that when they're going there they are going to be playing the fairest game they possibly can you have to at the end of that elimination after Derek had all 40 of his pegs in the board because that one had fallen down and I remember this he's running around looking for his 40th Peg because we I mean I thought it too I'm like dude where is it I don't see it blended it was Blended in it was it was literally sitting on on top of that second row the next throw down yeah this guy ran around at four 12 seconds before the horn blue and the game was ended so that's the other thing even though rasio did put his peg in the board while Derek was still running around the horn was blown dereck's 40 pegs were already there were on the board they weren't in the slot but were already on the board before haros were so in my dude in my opinion again take all the other I feel like everyone again is getting lost in the in the sauce and lost in the details the point of the game was the first person to get all 40 pegs collected and in their Zone the board again I think it just it it it made things a little more a little more complicated a little more convoluted both teams benefited from ref's helping them put back in maybe one ref put a few more in than the other one but everybody had help there and that just goes to show that if the game was you had to put all 40 pegs in the board then the rest wouldn't have been allowed to help them and last the last point I want to make and again I want you to I want to hear your take on all this it really does I feel like it takes away from the spirit of the game when you have not even fans because fans are going to have their because they have questions because they're watching they can only react to the edit yes it takes away from the spirit of the game when you have cast members who are fueling the fire and fueling the speculation and instead of just putting this [ __ ] to rest and being like yo what happened happened they're again and all it's doing all it's going to do is is by stoking this fire it's just going to affect the game it's just going to affect the Integrity of the show people are going to watch it and be like do I actually believe the outcome of this because of I hate that now I have to to comment back on people saying oh it's rigged it's fake I'm like no and and and the other thing horio as somebody who is a tremendous athlete tremendous who's played Sports his entire life buddy you got to learn how to just if if you take the L dude take the L and you know what because because all you're doing now again by doing these lives and these videos and being like oh this is what actually happened is dude you're you you're stoking this fire and in a way it's just looking like dude you got to just take it on the chin I've taken L's before that I did not feel I I should have bro I literally lost a godamn opportunity to go to the final Tony and I in final Reckoning because they canceled an elimination that we were winning that there was no way Paulie and Natalie come back from and then switched it up the whole object of our elimination was scoop up sand in a mug and transfer it scoop up sand in a mug and transfer it now was supposed to be put in this sand time or whatever that didn't work but Tony was so far ahead of Paulie he there was no coming back they canceled it we ended up then going to another elimination and losing bro like I've never been kicked in the dick harder in my entire life and you know what took it on the chin dude and that's sometimes what you got to do in life and and in this game is it's like yo sometimes you're not going to like the outcome of something but that's just that that's it is what it is man yeah I it is it's a tough one to swallow and you know I I obviously I'm going to speak from that for you know to tasio from that position you know like very very similar to my 39 elimination as a competitor you know like can he everyone has their opinion I know that in his mind he's like I just want people to know the truth and then you cuz I know he's not looking for sympathy or anything but I know he he's so Ru driven and like like Sport and then we're talking about Sport and the difference and I I do recognize the difference that you talk about we're talking about sport that has had rule sets for 100 plus years and we are talking about same game every time it's a lot easier ref a game brand new one every single time nobody gets to try it you know practice and the refs don't get to practice it right it's it's all for the first time um so I I do understand that side but I completely what I don't like you know if you want to tell like hey this is this is just what happened cool but I what I don't like is talking and building up like conspiracies about uh they wanted this person to do that they wanted this person that does not happen no that you and you know what also gets lost in all this and this again dude bro this it completely invalidates what Derek did it completely invalidates his performance because dude he [ __ ] dogged it out there and had he not bed miffed that one ball this wouldn't even be a conversation when he had the five pegs he dropped the ball knock the pegs out of the board [ __ ] dude and CT's Pro tip don't get greedy but dude Derek absolutely put on a clinic dude and he did so well and because now there's this controversy surrounding oh whether or not the Pags were all placed and in this shot it's there and in this shot it's not blah blah blah the hor dude it completely takes away and invalidates from what he accomplished and again not to go back and again love harasu to death dude I think he's he's such a sweet guy he is so genuine he is just bro he's like literally like salt to the Earth he really is just such a genuine human being however you go back to Ry or dies him and Olivia potentially don't win the Pictionary elimination against um against the turbo without our help and they potentially don't win the the or they don't win the other one against Jay and Michelle because we were helping to the point we were yelling so loud Jay and Michelle couldn't hear and they were so it's like he should know because he's benefited from that as well we all have yeah we've all benefited and we've we've we've benefited and we've it's like challeng give and it taketh away yes it the the challenge Karma does really kind of it it will keep you true and he's such a valuable asset to the show now and it's like he's such a fan favorite and so many people out there are like love him including production why would they go out of the way why would they go out of their way to [ __ ] him yeah I don't I don't like that you know like um I think you have to take you say uh credit to Derek you know um I felt some you know I felt it was closer but y you know here's how it happened I I feel both ways cuz I you know it's hard for me to keep my mouth shut sometimes yep y but you you are you are 100% correct and I I I don't want people to think like it is so it's so like you have no idea how real it is like we are doing these things right then in there it is it was created like it went from like paper and like idea and then they built this thing and then we are doing it like even when you play games in the in your backyard you get doovers and doovers and you refine the rule set we it is truly so it is that hard to get it right get it 100% right every single time and the other thing is they test them okay why don't you test they do the problem is there is no way that a tester can't simulate us is gonna simulate the way we're gonna play because we because we have so much more on the line and we are going so much harder so much with so much more ferocity than any tester ever will they can't match that which is why we break apparatuses we you know completely destroy [ __ ] we do things better than they can do it yes yeah we we figure out there's there's some there's a lot of challenges that we figure things out and the producers go afterwards they're like damn we actually didn't think you got like we didn't think of that like nobody did that when we tested this you know um you can't simulate that game speed you cannot you cannot and that intensity yeah I think a a great example of that is literally when we would do like World Champs or like USA and and so when you start combining the challengers yes they after challenge one or two so one The Challenge and then two how like Cutthroat we are in deliberations and stuff they just sit there with their eyes wide and they're like you guys are intense they like yeah we go hard we we do and there's there is advantage in experience in this game and that's what we have so we've been attacking these things we have we have a mind to figure them out yeah it's also not a sport because again and I think one of the reasons that I've always maintained this I think the reason that we are every much of a even though we're not professional athletes in the sense that we are professional in one sport we have to be good at everything everything and we have to be able to in the moment we have to be able to adap adapt improvise change strategy do something we've never done before and are never going to do it again for the first time with everything on the line and we have to basically do it the best and better than anyone else no practice runs and that's sometimes why really good athletes have a hard time with the challenge because they're used to doing one thing and one thing in a linear way then you come on the challenge and it's like you have to be good at everything yeah I always say the best attribute is just being very well-rounded you've got to be somewhat athletic somewhat athletic dude jack of all trades master of none Master none God damn it Jordan I gotta say man uh you stole a show with that outfit thank you dude I was hoping so I I actually really thought you were going to wear something ridiculous so you got me but now jok's on you because this episode is mine no it's gonna it's GNA be good lot of uh lot was unpacked here I I hope we got to every listen couldn't cover it all I literally had my producer coming in here and being like how much [ __ ] longer you planning on going here yeah well this what happens when you put the two of us in you know on a couch together just chewing the fat just chewing the fat but there was a lot to break down and I really do hope that we covered everything for everyone and I know here's the funniest part bro I could have came in here with a forensic team and a [ __ ] PowerPoint presentation and there are going to be people there are going to be naysayers and doubters out there who no matter what you say they're still not going to believe it which is fine you have your right to do that um you know I people like that want to disagree with me I could say the sky's blue and they'd be like no it's not world's round hell it is that's controversy yeah dude so everyone listen man we gave I gave my take on it I said my piece obviously Jordan said his um you know we broke this down as best that we could and uh hope you enjoyed it uh another great episode is coming up you know we got to take this week off because the VMAs which which is nice I think everyone need a little bit of a reprieve MH um but uh Jordan if for those out there who don't are already you know follow you and all your Amazing Adventures where can they find you uh I'm I'm pretty I am so not good at social media pretty good at it I mean you're pretty good you know I got good friends that take me to cool places so it gets good pictures um but man Instagram cool dud oh man I am really batting out of my league yeah um no uh my my YouTube I've really been focusing on uh YouTube lately and uh you know I got a bunch of race series stuff that that goes up there and then I've started doing some breakdowns as well so all right where's and what's your channel uh it's just Jordan wisley and then I've got a new segment out called keep talking Jordan love it and it just I'll just talk about everything you know MMA all kinds of stuff should we call keep yelling Jordan uh yeah I do yell a lot yeah my our mic situation is kind of the Jordan Outburst are my favorite dude and now now it used that used to annoy me but now it's like I just can't wait to wind I can tell when you're on one I just can't wait to wind you up I'm like Jordan can you believe they're making us do another walk out these [ __ ] will sit there they'll literally turn around and be like hey Jordan uh you know there this is uh going on I think we're going to need you to go up there and say something someone left the top off the peanut butter and there's rad crumbs in it but you know what's so fun like this is this is what is amazing about what we do and how close we really do get is yeah at first you're like [ __ ] we got to learn this [ __ ] and now it's literally you'll even see me I'll have an outburst veins pop and do thing and literally start laughing with you right because I know it's ridiculous ridiculous it's rid what we're doing is ridiculous it's godamn ridiculous [ __ ] yeah but good laughs well good man well it was great chopping up with you dude always a pleasure um check out his stuff check out his Recaps watch him race his cars uh Jordan is on YouTube now and uh just can't wait for the only fans to drop if it hasn't already it has oh it has where can you find you on only fans yeah that's where exactly we're Jordan wisely only fans all right and on uh Instagram on are you on Twitter nope no Twitter good I do have a Tik Tok Twitter's successful what's your Tik Tok uh real Jordan wisley real Jordan wisley yeah Snapchat no snap got to start a snap dude snap is where all the money's at bro hey for those who don't follow me on Snapchat your boy bananas all right your boy bananas Johnny Bananas on everything Snapchat huh Snapchats were all the cash you doing like uh you got you got to post a lot longer segments see that's the thing I am [ __ ] I'm not good at posting I don't post all you go through your camera roll and just all you got to do I'm telling you go through your camera you got to just post nonsense bro I know I know I need to get better of it what I'm not good at I I I talk to myself so much in the moment and like I uh like talk through stuff that if I had a camera it would be great I'm going that's a snap right there this it would be this is snap right here hey guys follow us on Snapchat if you want to see all the sweet pictures I'm posting right now all right look I'm just going to take one of exclusives going to take one of this these lamps all right dude well hey man thanks for stopping by the death taxes and bananas podcast with the tea flows like wine and my guests instinctively flock like the salmon of capestrano dressed as Elvis Presley oh yeah baby I'm Oprah and I love you