EP. 3 A Handmaid's Tale + Our Experiences with Religion Part 1

this is a coping mechanism podcast this is a coping mechanism podcast this is a coping mechanism podcast okay hi hello one and all to another exciting episode of this is a coping mechanism podcast I am one of your hosts Ted Henderson along with my wonderful co-host Bessie join us in how we cope with things with the satire life with movies media Mysteries and today we'll be doing media and today's episode we'll be talking about our experiences religion as well as the first season only first season of hands made tale so minor spoiler warning of a show that came out sure uh it's also a book so I mean I did research that so that's I I whenever I was doing research I had never heard of this uh of this show and then I I learned that it was very old book a lot older than I thought it would be yeah um that's why it was scary when they made the show cuz it felt like it was a lot realer yeah exactly it was like oh this is like a this dystopian world and now it's like nah this kind of feels like it could happen like a lot of people don't watch it that know about it because it's triggering um of what could come or what people have been through with religion abuse and I just eat that [ __ ] up so I was like give me it all it was definitely a uh definitely a messed up show which depending on your perspective I know we had messaged this while I was watching it where I was like I don't know I imagine if you are a woman or a mother this show hits like a ton of bricks and just knock you out and that's whenever you were like yeah some people can watch it and I've know I I know some women that have tried to watch it and just kind of like they can't like this is way too much it's too scary it's too triggering it's too real like I can't mentally encase in the show without it being like affecting my life all yeah I I could see that it was um I me nothing's there's not really been like a show or movie I feel like that I've seen that like embarked all in what is happening in this from like the book I think is pretty spoton for like the whole first season at least yes so I did um so first off hi hi uh said I'm Ted that's best how you been Bessie it's been a while you know um I'm good how are you I'm good we we haven't had a we we haven't gotten together um in a few weeks yeah in a few weeks so uh first session back will make any difference to you guys watching or listening yes I want to thank you all um but I remember whenever I was looking it up and I was very I was researching the book and after I found out it was a book while I was watching the show and I was amazed at how was like every point in the book they were hitting it seemed shot for shot yeah in the show and I was like oh I bet this season is going to end exactly how this book is supposed to end and then it does right and then that's right before we started recording Bessie asked me like are you going to watch like the rest of the show and I was like Oh you mean the other I was amazed that they got I think there's F Five Seasons yeah and then they're doing another one right now and I was like or whenever I saw that like how many seasons there were yeah how many seasons there are and how like so I watched this all in one day yes it's been was Heavy yeah which so thank you for going in and watching it um and I was like I'm I thought to myself I don't want to do this again this was an interesting show but I watched the first episode of the second season and it was immediately so in my not as good and made less sense than the because I mean as it keeps going there are I feel like a lot of Filler episodes and you're kind of like a lot of [ __ ] didn't happen or it's a lot of like this back and forth of like the Rebellion kind of fighting and people trying to get out but I am at a point myself that I'm like okay I do kind of just want this series to end I don't need much more I just just kind of tie it up but I think there's even like um Talk of a spin-off show called like the Old Testament or something that's supposed to be just mainly all about the Gilead bring upside of it so instead of our perspective of like Alfred and all that stuff like the oppress oppression side going to be the buildup and that side of it which again I would watch I like some of those bits in the in the first season just like I want like I want to know more you know about like how this Society seemed to have come to be yeah and like take over it bothered me this is uh so this is actually jumping ahead into later in the season I have my my notes Here throughout um for each episode but later on in the show and uh this this isn't this has nothing to do with the religious side of the show which is what most of my notes are about but this is why I'm not going to watch any more of it is uh the Diplomat from Mexico comes and that's a whole big part and they're basically like trying to set up a trade agreement and then you find out later that the trade agreement is for fertile women potentially for these fertile women for the handmaids and then the second season opens with there's this act of we'll get into it later because that actually does go more into the religious side of thing so I I won't touch on it right now but they TR they do they're going to do a mass hanging of all the handmaidens and they're leading him in and then as soon as they show like The Gallows yeah in the season premiere of season 2 I was like no this is dumb this makes no sense like even for what they're trying to say I know this society that is like so flushed out and like so perfectly realized in the first season would never in a million years their most precious and like commodity you know which is messed up but the in the context of the show of the story they're just going to wipe out like a good did you watch after that yeah where it's fake I at least wanted you to go into the rest knowing that did that yeah I know it did it was just like a scared acted to like don't like again don't rebel against us this is just the [ __ ] way it is exactly and but then they do that and I'm like that is yeah not that is not what they've set up this Society to be but to me that shows more of the like oh [ __ ] in any type of society like that there's going to be rebellion and they I think they feel threatened by it yeah that's thing is like I they're saying that it's I think it's what they're trying to say is in the context of the story they're impressing upon like fear yes and say saying do not Rebel this is not what you should if you do this bad stuff's going to happen as a viewer all it says is you have like they showed way more horrifying stuff before with people who like um I can't remember her character's name um ingred uh where she's a lesbian she kills the guy steals the car does all this stuff and it's s uh no she doesn't get sent to the colonies at one point she does oh she does later okay so like they kill her lover yes and then her they surgically remove her clitoris which was horrifying when I I was like cuz they they don't actually say that but she wakes up like bandaged and then like the way the the mother um or the Auntie the aunt yeah yeah describes it yeah Aunt Lydia describes like took away so now there will be no reason to no pleasure no temptation I was like you have that Temptation yeah I was like what the Yeah back my first note on this show you guys can't see it because it's a white paper in the way of but my first note under handmaid's tail is what the [ __ ] because which really incomp my this show my point is is that was wild she's goingon to do all that yeah and then they're going to be like okay you're still so valuable that we're gonna it's messed up but you're going back out and you're going back yeah we need you so after seeing that and then them kind of it felt like a fall for sure so I was like I don't need to see any more of this the creator of this book the writer Perfect story it was good it was very disturbing and re and you know now much more real kind of realized and but I don't need to see anymore yeah um well as I watched I'm I'll just let you know but uh so for anyone who hasn't really seen this or needs like a freshen up and Ma's Tale the Republic of Gilead is this kind of world where this super like Unitarian Christian total tarium oligarchic dictatorship type of like religion group take over America the Govern yeah the US government and you know come in guns a blazing with this is how shit's rolling now and you don't have a [ __ ] choice but they slowly I don't remember exactly if in the first Seasons with um why don't I remember I don't want to call her off right cuz that's not her name uh I have her real name written down somewh I know her daughter's name Hannah um June yeah June that's right cuz you learn it in the second episode do they show a lot of they show flashbacks throughout the whole show but you get to see how like they show this kind of like group already in like pushing the government with like oh you want to be on birth control your husband has to sign for it oh and then it's like oh actually you guys can't work anymore as women so they slowly stri those things which I think is also like a with the whole birth control thing feel so real now because that is a thing yeah and so it's like okay at least they're giving us that buildup of like everyone thought like [ __ ] they're taking all this [ __ ] away but like it won't be overthrown and then we're thrown into it being overthrown yeah it's like we we we know where we are but I they do a really good job of at least in the first from what I you know watched of the first season of going okay this is how things kind of we don't know how it got there we do know that there was this societ this like chapters of this religion that is Christian it is it's it's very strict Christian of like the Old and New Testament from what I was reading on it but they do like whatever works for them you know they're choosing they do abolish all other forms of Christianity we see that in the uh in the um first episode where they're uh dismantling a Catholic church and how they like just they it's a very passing thing that I thought was fascinating how it's not just Christianity that they're going okay all everything else it's their form of Christianity or nothing which uh again is kind of sad you know it's very sad but that Echo is kind of what it things are now where it's not we it's like what kind of Christian are you what kind of yeah yeah yeah you know what what God is your god and if it's it better line up real otherwise we're have some problem they have this very like traditional if you're not watching this air quote Traditional Values that they like really stick to of like women cannot read and write you will not be even taught that as a kid who's born into this Society you like it's almost like an eye for an eye like oh you you're caught writing we take your [ __ ] hand so it's very old school stri it's Old Testament and it's um even with their punishments like their public punishment of stoning public shootings hanging having them hang by the wall so you could see like who was labeled whatever whatever and you're just like oh [ __ ] you know it was um the uh I forget the um the Commander's wife I forget her name but I know her her real name is yavon um stagi stotsky uh who is a character in a show I love from when I was a kid called Chuck okay U which is a very fun show about a Geek Squad employee who gets a super computer spy in his brain and she's one of his spy handlers and it's just this goofy guy who has to go do spy stuff while he works for Geek it's a very goofy show so this was like seeing her again and this you're like oh this is 360 yeah I was amazed at how incredible her acting was in the show and I don't know if it touched in the first season as much but she actually was the one like in the flashbacks you see like helped write this yeah that's what I was amazing is that she she writes she helps write the laws she was she was a she was pretty much was one of the founding members of this government exact but it was all predicated on how she wanted women to stay home and have babies I think the whole world in general was like um like I don't want to say sterile but there was like a decline in birth rates kids actually surviving being born so she was like it's has all this pollution and we need cleaner food and so that's why this world was created stripped her of than everything she's ever done that was something in the beginning that I don't that I didn't understand for until I got later in the show I I didn't really maybe I they explained it and I just didn't pay attention but I I didn't know what caused the world to get to a point to where this was necessary and then they're like oh birth rates head had dropped so it's not until I think the the first flashback where she has where um June has her daughter yeah that someone tries to take her daughter uh and then I was like oh the birth rates are so bad worldwide that the population decreas is scare it's so bad that it's scaring the world and which is why that Mexican leader came and was like even though this is terrible we also need yeah babies so we're gonna take you she she has this very um where June like tells the truth because she she lies up to that point is like no I'm an honored person and it's I'm fine and then she goes look that sucks but no one not a single baby has been born in alive yeah alive in the city where I'm from for the past like five years yeah and I was like oh and then you see that more that that's how this Society has like garnered Powers they were the first person to go okay every person we find we need to collect this and yeah as in handmade you are only valued as a reproductive order yeah so let's like a handmade is a woman who's um which it's who's uh they can still have children and then blanking on the word um they're repr they they can still reproduce but they're still they're fertile sorry that's the word I they're still fertile but they were deemed sinful in some way from that's why they're a handmade so it shows oh okay I didn't get that I thought it was anytime if you're fertile you got to be go be hand it shows later on outside of what we see with like the commanders and their houses and those handmaids are like communities and like housing units of people who they deemed okay enough so they were like legally married and you know went to church enough for them normal people so they're like we'll give you a chance to live this life under our rules because you kind of did it right before all this that so it shows some of that and that's when you're like oh so like maybe if she was actually legally married to her husband they wouldn't have been taken away but since they weren't they were living in like sin so that's why she was taken okay I they show more of that later on of like all these other people you're like oh so this is what happens to the rest of them that would be an interesting thing to see of because the whole context of the show is pretty much it's either flashbacks or in this gated community of high ranking officials right so you're like okay I don't but that's neat to get kind of get a an Insight on how the rest of the society is working God damn girl right try to stretch out but yeah so you do get some of that but it's still like those people still live in this like fear if they [ __ ] up our video audiences are is getting a special treat of seeing aora uh passed out and sped out on our podcast couch M um our audio listeners may have picked up that incredible snore but um yeah so that's why like there's like commanders wives but then like some of the Martha and the aunts they picked those people based on like what their lifestyle was like so if you were Martha maybe like or a widow or you you know like you were good enough to not be a handmade or like sent to the colonies like what they do with anyone who Rebels homosexuals anything of that sort abortions you know they don't believe in like the whole modern medicine even though it does show you that they do have these like private doctors did they still do stuff yeah cuz then you even though it's put on women there's a lot it's really men that become a lot more sterile so it's like so it's like these wives aren't probably getting pregnant most of the time because of these older men or like if Society was that bad or pollution or whatever the [ __ ] it was you know like it wasn't just on the woman they talk about it in um where orres go to the doctor and the doctor is like hey I can do this nine times out of 10 it's the man mhm I have done done this before if you want I'll write a thing five minutes and go on otherwise they're going to kill you yeah and she says no yeah she's like well and she CU she thinks everything's a trap and that they're yeah that's true too I would too I be like no you're [ __ ] baiting me yeah um cuz she she just got her friend like taken away before and has you know dealing with all this and that would that was did season one you didn't see she gets pregnant eventually right yes that's how the show ends ends with Nick yeah uh she gets Serena says hey you go impregnate her she sets that up which is in the book um and then uh the commander yvon's character who I can't remember her name Serena Serena yeah thank you um Serena finds out that uh he's been unfaithful and taking her dressed as his wife to this uh Sodom and gomorra this Bas yeah the Jezebel yeah thehouse um where you can do whatever you please which was the first time in the story where I was like man the this I you know it's all set up as like [ __ ] but when you're like wow this is hard like yeah this is like the worst thing of at least at least the woman you know Serena believed in in all of this all these other nothing and it was but uh she finds out and then whenever she finds out she goes to June's character the handmaiden is like I'm going to kill you unless you're pregnant so I smuggled in this pregnancy test pee on this and you better pray otherwise I'm going to kill you yeah and then she's pregnant and then the last episode is the uh stoning okay and then but she knows she's pregnant yeah and then they take them all away and she's like what did you do after everything you did for you what did you do and I was like what that line why did you you know how horrible you are she doesn't does she really she doesn't care it doesn't take until like this most recent season where she is like I can't she even still though is kind of like I still think we did good and it's still like no B you can't play Both Sides when she takes June to see her daughter and is like act right or is my kid safe I'll keep your kid safe I'm like you're just evil like it's so evil that was another reason why I didn't want to watch the show is cuz when I looked it up on IMDb I saw the cast list and how they so many of them are still in episodes and I was like I can't take a show where people characters this terrible are still alive Five Seasons into a show I feel like the rest I mean you obviously get like side character stories and more of like how [ __ ] up [ __ ] is but also like how more of the Rebellion is actually like coming but I feel like the whole show is really just based off June trying to get her daughter that's it period And I don't I I can't I don't want to watch fight Seasons no I don't blame you it's a lot and you you want it to end now like I wanted it to end probably like season 4 I want to like I I remember I was I was watching the show and um I can't remember but the the uh the aunt the Auntie woman uh character did something horrible and I was like I need to know when this character dies cuz she doesn't seem important like the the wife Lydia uh so when s Serena I was thought okay this character is integral enough to where they would keep her around and she's also evil enough she could be an antagonist for this whole show but the but Lydia clearly going to die right she's going to get murdered and then I clicked on an episode in the latest season and it's the the the description was and Lydia believes to believe is starting to believe that her treatment of the handmaids may have gone a little too far and I was like you're five seasons in and that's just coming up you get a lot of moments with her and flashbacks throughout the season where you're like seeing what she was like and how she kind of became who she was but yeah I want to hear about your kind of like breakdowns for some of these episodes and what kind of like you pulled out from those out yeah so so I have some I do have some points on that like I said my first note was what the [ __ ] yes do this show um I think if you didn't say what the [ __ ] we might have had some problems yeah it in our friendship I like it was it I I had never apparently I was the only I asked everyone I knew and had seen and I was like have you ever heard of this and everyone was like yeah have you not it's everywhere it's very famous what do you how do you not know about this I'm like I had no idea no I mean yeah so I had never heard of this book never heard of the show didn't know anything about it um and I asked Ted specifically to kind of watch this first season because I know he was a youth Minister and so I just found it fascinating that oh if he hasn't seen this I like let's dig into that and then obviously like I was once a very devout uh Christian I was a southern baptist um which Echoes uh a lot of stuff that they talk about in this so it was a lot of I think yeah you know a lot of it I was like oo yeah I know that verse kind of that that strikes I remember that okay um and I have a list of questions for Ted but I want to kind of just hear firsthand what he picked from through these episodes and see how that unfolds holds with what his past was like so the first um this doesn't really factor into my past so much but this was something but I think things you pull from it will kind of show that I pulled this so in our um in in the first episode we get exposed to the ritual um which is horrifying yeah it is a religious rape and it is a fullon in a the that was one of the most disturbing things I've seen on television is cuz they don't watch yeah they don't I that is some of one of the most interesting things about the show and how it's shot and how it's edited and portrayed that there's no foreshadow it's they just throw you in to what's happening yeah and which makes you feel how they probably feel exactly this just happening and there's no other choice and we we get we get that with uh I'm bad with names but the character who loses an eye and who's fullon crazy yeah Janine um how she eventually like loses it so badly that she like as opposed to oh my God I was like as opposed to now where she's well she's kind of like rebelling and pushing those boundaries and I think they beat her down to be like you know no lindia said if I was a good girl and she kind of plays that and you're like oh [ __ ] they got to her well that that comes up that's kind of what I was talking about where she they put her in uh she she goes into the handmade program and she's like what are you guys she acts like a normal person in that situation and then everyone's like don't don't don't don't don't she's like what are you guys talking about shut up and then Aunt Lydia just goes and tases her in the back of the neck and then they take her away and then she comes back eyeless and crazy and she's like and then like shut the and that's her for a while yeah um she eventually has like babies for commanders so she yeah she has one of the kids and those commanders like obviously abuse their power and they're like you know she snaps it a point she's like you told me if I sucked your dick it would just be us and you would leave your wife and you're like oh [ __ ] yeah and then the wives are like oh [ __ ] yeah that that the wives know their their men are garbage yeah besides probably maybe like .1% that are like okay that is too far I'll just do what I'm told and nothing more you know but yeah Janine so Janine uh her story ends in the first season where she attempts suicide yes and then she doesn't die which didn't make any sense to me she still used yeah well no I mean that she jumps off of a bridge into a frozen they save her L and then they like take her out and she's in a coma and I'm like I don't think so but okay um but uh I I wrote down that during this ceremony the the Commander goes in and unlocks the chest on the mantle pulls out the Bible reads the verse yes and then they do the to be fruitful whatever then they they do the hor horrible rape and what I wrote down was this is reminiscent of like 1800 slavery was they explode they not explode they exposed um Africans who were being brought over to Christianity and religion and then brought them up on but they weren't allowed to read or write like women and they kept Bibles under lock and key you weren't allowed to uh give any sort of like religious material to Slaves so it was all kept Under Wraps because they were picking and choosing the verses and the points to teach to them to you know promote subjugation which is exactly what they're doing in this and the only person who's allowed access to it under lock and key is the commander you know one of the the the the the patriarch of you know of the so of the society and I was like you know just so disgusting yeah I I don't have you can pick and choose anything from anywhere and be like let see if you don't get the rest of if you don't have the rest of the context uh there's a there's a movie that I love called Book of Eli um where it's Denzel Washington and I feel like I've seen that uh I it's a great movie but it's post-apocalyptic movie but the whole point is that this Denzel Washington character has the last Bible in this like post-apocalyptic and the antagonist wants to do this pretty much where he knows that the words of that book are so powerful in the way they're written that he could subjugate Everyone by just picking what works um so he's do nowadays yeah and that's you know that's something that we see now where they pick and choose it's like read the rest of that verse and tell me what the [ __ ] it says yeah exactly and you know I I'm not as up on it as I used to be in the the years following me leaving you know organized religion and whatnot but I remember uh being the progressive yeah of of you know my church of you know being like well we don't want you know homosexuals here and we don't want the we don't want these people and then me being like well that's not really for us to do right and I want everyone to understand if you know me at the time different person but as a religious person I I was said we as humans we don't deny anyone right everyone's supposed to be welcome yeah we are here to teach and to spread the word it's up to them to become saved all we are is meant to is preach and spread we should be taking in everyone to save everyone we shouldn't be denying anyone if they but if if they if you're denying these people coming in then you're denying them the chance for salvation and then them being like look at the kid over here all right technically yes but but don't listen to him yeah like we don't want to sit with him we'll get him a Pew by themselves and then uh yeah yeah but you know so I again I don't have experience with this but this was the first scene where like they among the other messed up stuff where they showed it and I was like oh this isn't a this isn't just like some kind of new Twist on Christianity this is taking the worst parts of the history yeah with Christianity and going okay we're going to put this forward and we're going to use it was like the greatest hits of horribleness um and I I have this so I have this later in my notes but it's something I did want to bring up this is on a a later episode I think it's episode three but I don't want to sit here and know read while we're doing this um but after uh her friend who inter tells her that about the Rebellion um gets taken away the black woman right no um she she's a lesbian and we were talking about her before I think it's ingred something like that yeah something like that uh her uh shopping mate because they make all the handmaidens go in pairs to spy on each other and and I'm sorry but if I get what's all survival but I feel like as a woman like let alone like the wives and like the Martha you know just trying to survive like your own hand made made snitching on you that's just like that it's just even more [ __ ] up cuz it's supposed to be like wow we're supposed to be in this together and you're not but I think that they do a great job of explaining how that makes sense with this character is that when she gets replaced it's by the woman who comes up and she goes hey don't [ __ ] with this and don't [ __ ] with me but like I I lived in the city I know who you are I remember you used to come in with that guy and you had little girl and everything was all fine you know where I was I was out back sucking dick for my next fix living in a dumpster so this was like good life for her yeah so she was like I'm living the good life don't [ __ ] it up for me which is wild but I have known of people where that's where religion was their escape like that I feel like a lot of people's I don't want to say crutch cuz that sounds rude but I'm but that's you know but you know like it was their Saving Grace if you want to call it that you know yeah like the 12 step program famous program you know getting people off of addiction uh one of those steps is finding you know power in Christ and I don't know if that's still the case but I I think it is but there's a lot of groups who are trying to not involve it so it can be like a safe space for everyone even if they so they don't you know they're not forced into like you have to believe in this to be sober you know and I do want to impress uh I don't don't think religion is a bad thing I think it's about how you look at religion and your experiences with ReliOn um I have had very good experiences and very bad experiences so I think I I can see both sides of it and see the benefits whereas I have a friend um who I was actually talking to right before you came over and I was telling you about the show and they were like if you got me on that show I'm not going to tell their story but they have had horrifying like almost this level in Real Life Experiences the things in this show happen for sure and they have happened to a person who I know very well and it's [ __ ] it's really [ __ ] up and I've had uh debates with them where I go yeah that's horrible and those people are horrible but there is a good side to religion and I think that uh this character is kind of in a it's supposed yeah it's supposed to be a description of that of like hey I was literally dying on the streets and this Society isn't perfect but it saved me and I think for some you know some if not a lot of people that's what religion can be where there might be I'm sure there are people out there who are saying horrible things that they may not necessarily believe but they go well you know if I look at where I was before I joined this church and now I would be dead without them so I'm going to die for them sure um and I think having a belief in something is fine and healthy for some but I think the actual religion is not healthy yeah that's where you know like when it becomes that organized religion that yeah that the belief it seems that's where it goes off the bridge that that was my biggest connection to personally with this show that was like uh that cut me deep was this is a extreme case exactly of the over organization of religion and the over population of the bureaucracy of it yeah um and we mentioned this we we talked about this a little bit before about how you know whenever we later realize that handmaidens even though they're spoken of as these like honored oh creatures uh that are very they're like practically worshiped as holy symbols in the church is that's it's all on a front they are a commodity and they're a resource that this group was like we have to collect as much of this resources we can because it's the most precious resource in the world now um is that sentiment hit me like a ton of bricks because that was why I left religion okay was because uh whenever I was um so when I used to be a youth Minister I taught alongside um I was a assistant minister to this woman um who is a very wonderful lady but she left she went she moved away with her husband they I don't remember ex I think they like bought some land then but they left and they couldn't find another one and they went oh uh you're turning 18 legally you can now be the minister so we're going to uh set you up and you're going to teach now okay so uh I started teaching by myself um you know I taught kids and uh but then I had to go to my first budget meeting of a church and uh they I I they you know I thought no one told me it was a budget meeting no one told me about what any of it was they just said oh the elders and the yeah everyone's getting together and we're going to discuss you know the forward plans of ministry so I was like okay so I went in and I thought it was like a progress for I was like all right this is what I'm teaching the kids this is what I'm going to be going into like a I was like here's my lesson plan pretty much and then one of the older guys the elders of the church which are like yeah connect hit with the commanders of the yeah like the people running the business when that's all well and good how much money do you think you're going to bring in and I was like and I said excuse me and he said well the youth Ministries need to bring in this much money we had the this we had a b we had the bake sale that brought in this much money we had the fundraiser for concert that brought in this much money um all stuff that I was aware of and particip ated in I didn't understand that they were like these kid and then this guy's like those kids pull in a lot of money for this church we need to make sure that that doesn't stop and I it blew my mind that I thought I never thought that someone was out in this church thinking of these kids as a moneymaking commodity yeah and that these children were like these hand meetings where they were just a resource to bring in money and I it disgusted me to my core and I just you know I I I like stopped talking and I was like and I said I wasn't aware of this I'll have to look into it and then I left and um a friend of mine and neighbor uh he who started he's the one who started taking me to that church after we had moved towns uh he said hey is he asked me is everything okay he's much old older guy and one of the Elders of the church and he said hey is everything okay and I went you know no I I don't think so I didn't know that this was part of it you know I didn't know that this was you know you know I'm not trying to name names but I guess it doesn't if I say just first names we we'll call him Paul sure it's a Bible name um but like I don't like what Paul said about this and he goes and he he basically said yeah is an [ __ ] but this but that's part of it it's not something that we like the general public to see but it's an aspect of any church because at the end of the day they have bills to pay and their own Pockets to that's the thing is that that was his his point of view said we have uh we we have to keep the lights on and I went okay I guess that I understand understand I don't like it and he he basically was like every church needs one of those guys the hard ass the bus who's not there other than for the to keep things running smoothly on a monetary sense and then I go to and then I have to deal with him again and that's when I learned about how people are like paid in church CU I always thought it was oh pastors like getting a little you know you know getting something and then that's it and it's everything's volunteers time and everything that you tithe is all put towards the church and not the case it's it's a business and it's paying more people money putting more money in more you know and because everything's like a [ __ ] tax write off exactly and a lot of them are employed and the more I looked into this the more I was I kind yeah and I not just turned off but fell hard I was extremely religious growing up and I stayed that way and you know this was like this was a blow to the very fabric of my being that this pillar of my life is not what I thought it was yeah you know I knew that there was shitty Christians out there and shitty religions you know like I had heard stories about you know the [ __ ] who were protesting solders Graves and I go those are the wrong kind of people those people are using words in a book to just propagate hate and I never part of that yeah I never cared for that I never approved of it and I always just thought yeah and anything there's going to be people who take advantage and use it to yeah who who they they use good to justify bad yeah um but then when I learned that oh no this is a a foundation that is always going to be tainted because it's based it's broken yeah it's it's it's all based on the building and read of people who want you know just something better and taking advantage of people so I don't all of that kind of just knocked me all the way down um so seeing that in this show right as you know I'm a guy so you know my when it comes to women's Reproductive Rights or the bond of a mother and her children or any of this stuff I don't have a lot of you know touchstones for that yeah didn't have a mom so I don't even have like that yeah of I'm not laughing cuz it's funny no it's just like it's like [ __ ] if you want me to connect with this uh I can connect with the horribleness of it and like speaking as to the the satire of the society but wanting me to like really connect with them I don't have a lot of to like put myself in with this with these characters cuz that's probably a good thing that you don't feel connected in a sense to like the bad of it but you can empathize enough with being self-aware of like no I'm not a woman or a mother or know what it's like to have that Bond even as a kid but this is still [ __ ] yeah and it is and that should no matter what you believe in that those things happening should never be justified in that way ever it it always it amazes me in the show every time they say like the horribleness that's going on because they yell it in a you know in a way where they're like this is horrible and I'm like of course it's horrible how do they even in this world how are they pretending it's not yeah you know uh Serena's character how is in how is she just brainwashed yeah how in her mind is she look at anything and go this is this is worth it or okay exactly I remember where uh in the episode where the uh Mexican Diplomat comes in and she talks about reading Serena's book and she says did you ever think that you would play such a pivotal role in a society where no one can read your book again and she was like yeah she had no answer yeah and it was like because I don't know I don't think it shows in season one but as it goes on she wants more power cuz she knows she wrote they touch on that a bit she tries to do that and like tries to gets the wives rallied up and like no we we should do this because we're the wives we should have a say and what goes on and all the wives are like I can't like they back out Serena goes and reads from the [ __ ] Bible and Fred cuts her pinky off and he was like it could have been [ __ ] worse but you will never do no [ __ ] like that and I think that's when she finally realized oh I [ __ ] up yeah you dug my own grave real deep in this way I man there's just there's so much in the show to dissect yeah of like horror but not Horror in a way that I'm used to no yeah of horror in a much realer sense it's not the boogeyman who jumps from under the bed because it's dark and you're like oh [ __ ] that got me it's like oh it's like psychologically horrible exactly and it's also it's it's Horror by twisting something that I know yeah and making it real in a sense where there's um I think that was the opposite for me how you said like it's hard for me to connect cuz I'm not a woman or a mother in my sense of it it's like I'm only a woman I'm not a mother but like religion was something that like my mom had but it was never pushed past that as a kid so like watching it I have no connection with the religion I'm just sitting there thinking who the [ __ ] can believe this cuz this is [ __ ] wild you know yeah and so like two different perspectives but they still kind of come to the same conclusion and especially and amazingly there's a program that's dialed into our dichotomy of experience but I was I you know because Old Testament especially you know there's a lot of Wrath of man wrath of God and that's kind of the whole shtick is that Old Testament is Angry God and the New Testament is Happy God if you want to boil it down you know it's obviously it's a lot more than that but that's pretty much the gist is Old Testament God is the vengeful wrathful do what I say you get in line or else or else and then New Testament is you know it's a lot more of the Jesus of forgiveness uh turning the other cheek moving on yeah in the story um so there's a scene where we talked about it before where uh oneeyed lady Janette Janette Janice Janise J uh when her commander is uh goes to basically goes to a tribunal to answer for his crimes yeah his crimes of putting touching the handmaiden outside of the ceremony the ceremony um having this secret relationship with her so he could get his rocks off yeah just exactly uh that's the thing took his [ __ ] hand they cut his hand off but what horrified me was that they show it and it's not in your head and whenever you especially if you grew up if you like me who grew up with religion and you know that these you know these are parts of the Bible yeah it's all like a story in your head of like you putting a hand on a rock and taking a thing and just cutting it and going okay here you go but in this how they make it so real because it's a surgical yeah amputation where they fully they show him going under they show you know them marking the hand and I don't know if you know this that's how amputations are actually done I'm sure they cut down and then pull the skin back cut the bone sew it shut and uh that's how amputation been done since like the Civil War and then they show that for real I was like this is like one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen because it took something in my head that was just like a story or it was like slash horror and made it real and how he comes out of it like here was the I did this crime and now I have this biblical Old Testament thing of you get hit of the oh damn well then he's also like in a sense like shamed even by his own people of but like still able to kind of hold a position and then that shame on his wife when all those other ladies were like oh did you hear what her husband did you know so it's still that like game of like who's better than who exactly and you kind of that's where you learn that Fred uh June's Commander yeah is like a real dirt bag is cuz they when they at the tribunal he's like he literally is like we all do it's not that big a deal and then the one character he's the only character who I'm interest interested who I would be really the guy with the white beard yes yeah uh the the like pseudo he's the architect of the whole place yeah like he built it he's the only person who I'm interested in seeing because he seems the most like intelligent in how he's like you saying architect uh and creating the society but also he seems to believe it um whether it's an act or not in the first season Fred is like it's not a big deal just keep him going and then he's like no it is a big deal these are the [ __ ] laws and you broke it and he broke it so we're going to do this right now and also his wife asked for the most the harshest punishment we could do she's she's embarrassed she'll be shamed forever exactly and I was like just she's like yeah do to him what I feel like he did to me that guy has a back and forth you love him you hate him cuz he never he stays in that power of position and his wife is crazy you'll never like see her because she didn't realize that's what that world was going to be so she pretty much loses it and he just like he's like medicated and he never has sex with a handmaid they never have a baby and he's kind of like helps the Rebellion but he also plays the side of Gilead so he won't do everything for the Rebellion because he's like if it's going to be taken down it's going to be taken down from the inside so you kind of like love and hate him you're like what the [ __ ] his deal but then you're like oh she did do that you know like cuz the girl who got her [ __ ] taken off she gets sent to him and then she's like oh okay this is not going to be what I thought it was so I think that helps her character in some way because she gets sent there but he's not going to do to her what she thinks is going to happen yeah they also show like his he's also kind of like a spy Master where he's he's got all the the eye people in the undercover that we you know you learn that Nick is one of um which oh man you know that kind of stuff that freaked me out because they show it all as you know this whole religious rise up and all this thing but it kind of happened you know when you look at like the Insurrection of these people who were so hopped up on like God and Trump and but they they got you know they got all they got dressed up and then went into the capol building but you're like if they were actually organized and equipped this is what those kind of people could do yeah exactly and if there was like a centralized you know if they had an internal central government that was dictating to these people like these people like yeah the the the commanders of Gilead did this [ __ ] could have happened like a few years ago literally and that's so [ __ ] scary right which you know when this show came out like predicting the future they just didn't realize that there was going to be no you know no there was no control and it was just idiots but yeah right you're like oh so did anything else kind of before I like ask you all these questions of like start to finish of your experience like what else throughout these episodes kind of got you God I can't believe it to to put in context about how insane the show is episode three is where uh ulka is the character who loses her uh who's gay and um that's episode three where Ula gets taken and then has they remove her [ __ ] surgically yeah and they also that's like only episode three which is crazy and they do the most nonchalant execution ever where they sentence them they're not allowed to speak they're not allowed to defend themselves or do anything they come in everyone looks together and go oh they're guilty and then they put them in a van they drive a little bit they take the Martha out of the van put her on a crane hang her and then just drive away and you just see her hang in the background and I was like Jesus Christ it's like it's nothing you know it's just nothing they're like oh you clearly aren't worth anything so that's how you're treated uh I I feel like it's um it's worth noting just to talk about the end of the show but in the beginning of the show how uh the first scene that we see of all the handmaids handmaids collecting together is the man who is sentenced for raping a handmade and it's they beat him yeah they beat him to death is they have as apparently we don't it's not expressly said but It's seems to be shown that if a crime is committed against a handmade the punishment is doled out by the handmaids so they just take their [ __ ] anger at them like you [ __ ] did this to one of us and just [ __ ] and you can see like with June how that clicks and even though she's kind of like [ __ ] this is kind of wrong she get you get into that because you're like conditioned but then you're like I need to take my feelings out somewhere thing is you see it's part of the manipulation of like we're going to push these women to the brain but we're going to give them we they need an escape this is the escape and you're like man this is like picture perfect manipulation and like societal molding in the worst way possible yeah I feel like this show could have been like four episodes smaller really you know um because there's some stuff I it's crazy but in the context of like the show uh epode episode 4 um I have this is this is where June like gets put into her room and it's before she starts like doing stuff with the commander it's like the start like the punish she's in there by herself she's like isolated she's losing it and she's losing it and then this is where Fred starts like pursuing a actual romantic relationship and we find out that he had done this with a previous handmaid that they killed herself they kill herself and they just kind of hushed it up um but you know as far as like I guess it's all in the book and they wanted to be so true to the book but I was like you know in the rest of this show don't know how important some of this is because that whole episode you know is just her like trying to push uh Fred whenever she's allowed to go out to be like the [ __ ] going on which is something that I don't understand about her character um at least how she's portrayed in the show is that she's constantly you know quite literally getting hit in the face with how every everyone's out to get her everything is you know they're spies she knows one of them personally and it just keeps coming up but maybe it's just like they're trying to express her her pure side of rebellion but how she she keeps pushing the envelope and like pushing the other characters and I think that's what it is like some people will just not fold yeah you know and she's one of those people and I'm like why are you talking to the commander about this stuff like you're just going to get murdered go like kill him or something I don't know and is the hardest thing about watching the show is you're like man kill oh I think if it wasn't for her daughter which is probably why they throughout the seasons keep dragging some of those things on cuz it's really just her I have to save my kid like I could do all this crazy [ __ ] kill a commander I forget about the daughter off my [ __ ] but like I can't leave her behind so I think that's why a lot of those episodes go into which again that filler of her mental state but in the end Hannah is the only thing that matters to her again hard for me to you know right I ain't got no Mom my mom certainly didn't have those thought towards me so [ __ ] when they're like I'm going to deal with all this to get my kid back I'm like really is that what a normal person would do yeah I don't know um so oh I do love uh so I have I have this on here or it's a quote from the show where we get a kind of an insight into the society where Fred the commander says we wanted to make the world better but better for some always means worse exactly and period you know I think that that that describes in its entirety why I think as a people we could never and should never strive for something like this a uni a unified Society yeah for sure because it will always be worse for more yeah someone will always come out on the bottom yep um which is going to be the case most all the time but at least in a encompassing and accepting Society you can go okay you may be low over here but over here in your space you're high yeah and it kind of gives you the more a more balanced yeah Balanced Life and balanced Society but but I I thought that that line was very powerful and it really kind of hit where I was like oh you know and I started thinking about my religion and other religions that I've learned about and just yeah that's true or just any society you know like if any one place just took over the world it'd be not good who would be hurting because exactly and uh again that doesn't this this doesn't really time into my experience with religion but I do think it is a very powerful thing that you should realize of if if you're out there and you know you're watching the show and you go no if everyone was just this you know it'd all be fine it'd be fine and you really think about it and go who wouldn't be yeah and even if it's just someone who goes you know if let's say everyone you say everyone be Buddhist or you know you know some just a free spirit mm acceptance you're like okay well then the person who's really competitive and who finds joy and you know wanting to be the best and striving to improve themselves and in you know in context with others like what are they going to do just going to hate themselves now and because there's nothing to do for there's no there's no point of there's no strive for life for that person and so it's I don't know I think it's something that just H me rather yeah rather big uh I have also they do something really good we're seeing the outside world where they show they start showing Canada and um showing the other people's views towards they hate gilia yeah what's going on in America and they're like [ __ ] those people are what that's crazy yeah like let's be like you can if you can Escape you can find sanction here um I actually do have that of uh in in the husband episode they they show how and um also in the I think it's the last episode uh where uh her friend uh who is later we find out is she becomes a jezebel and then she escapes uh black girl right yeah the black girl I think her name's thought it was like Sasha or something or like that was her Jezebel name or something like that something like that is whenever she she escapes and makes it to Canada and they're like all right here here's your food here's your phone here's money here's cab Fair here's everything and I'm like wow but even for her it was too shocking like that change when you're that imprisoned or like tortured going back to something like that is also over stimulating over whelming and you almost can't just go you can't go back to normal after experiencing torture like that yeah so it's still like [ __ ] how am I going to readjust to being normal in a normal society I was amazed I was like wow the refugee system in Canada if it's anything like this that's awesome I people joke nowadays of like where would where do I go if like I need to flee the US and people say like Canada Mexico or like you know obvously places overseas yeah but it's just like those are the two I got a good end in Vietnam you know it's just getting over there at least Canada you can [ __ ] swim over that [ __ ] or something right I got a van I'll take a road trip drive right on through you know uh but we we mentioned this before you know I'm just kind of like hitting on my notes a little bit as we're we're repping up more of the the in-depth of the show discussion here of uh one of the later episodes I have an intent of yvon's character Serena yes Serena I remembered I was going to say uh getting hit by her own laws uh and that's where her she goes to her husband and she's like hey I helped write these laws I should be I can help we can you know like let me be involved yeah let me be involved I help you you in the position of power you are because of you were married to me I can help you deal with the delegates and you know figure out something to do she and then he goes no keep the house in order this is you know period That's yeah he's like you put me in charge and I'm in charge you got power now she and apparently I don't care when nobody says love or marriage that that [ __ ] don't matter when you give someone that that much power they're going to use it which apparently gets even crazier cuz get she get hering finger cut off which like I mean she ends up like fleeing Gilead having a baby and all that [ __ ] like it gets wild honestly I'm just but there's people out there even worse than Fred like they show other commanders in like other far away like States or whatever and like it shows like June and them going to visit one of them and they all kind of wear like these masks with their handmaids red outfits like when people come and he was like wow your handmaids are so well behaved and like they're not speaking back to you or like nothing and he's like oh yeah that's because we either cut their tongues out or show like sew their mouths so like people are even like pushing that and it's just like oh [ __ ] you know like it's not even as bad as like what he was doing and that's when you're like okay this shit's really off the rails and this rebellion's like trying to like take down but it's so hard you know yeah that [ __ ] gets wild you know in my head I'm like is the suspension of disbelief that if that would happen that's so crazy that you think that someone would just turn and go no I'm I'm dead anyway stop I'm going to kill as many as I can and go down but then the terrifying thing when you realize that's not how people work and that when it comes to life you know it doesn't matter what you have to deal with a lot of people especially pushed slow like how they describe in the show will put up with anything if it means even a monocom of Life yeah uh which I think be freaky it is because you're like oh that's so horrifying why aren't they just turning and going crazy and killing everybody it's like well because it was slowly introduced till you got used to it and then it was not a choice anymore yeah it's conditioning it's not you know wasn't just overnight exactly I don't know you know it's not a sh it's not it's not an ice shock it's not like a shock and all here it is now it's we had a slow burn where uh we'll get you eventually but here's we start I remember when they show that in the flashbacks where all right all the women are fired there's nothing I can do bunch of armed gunmen everyone's got to leave everyone's like what the hell and then they're still like living and they're like hey I need to go get my prescription filled and you like you said you need to sign this and he's like and I I can't have access to my money he's like oh well if I go go get your I can go sign your bank paperwork and we'll just put the money in my account like and uh friend who is was her friend we should say that she was her friend before that she was a police officer and then but she doesn't have uh she doesn't have anyone so all of her money gets taken away um which you know I did want to say this because I didn't like this in the show where so she's her friend from before she's in it throughout uh God I wish I had I wrote down that character's name Jin The Walking Dead really great great actor um but in the end where she escapes to Canada they maybe there's like deleted scenes or there something I don't but she only has like one scene Moira Moira yeah yeah that's right Moira so Moira only has one scene with um jun's husband and it's like them drunk hanging out uh like after uh after all the women lose their jobs and their money yeah but it's before things get real crazy and she's basically like [ __ ] men cause a bunch of trouble why don't you why don't you go make you know and you know she just says like some stereotypical yeah [ __ ] and then he goes like aha okay I'm not really a part of that and then she's like I don't give a [ __ ] and they have like this small Tiff that's it it's like a little thing and then she's like drunk and he's like in the same scene like oh don't go home you sure drunk why don't you stay here you can sleep here she's like no I'm just going to walk what so that's the only scene they're in so but in the last like their last scene she escapes to Canada he shows up at the refugee Center and yeah Luke and then uh Moira she says before she makes a big deal about pointing out she doesn't have any family she doesn't have anybody who's here in Canada and then he shows up and she's like what are you doing here and they do this setup where like it's like they hated each other and then he's like what we're family and then she breaks down and crying and hugging and stuff that reaction no way earned in from what they showed me in this show where it's like one scene where like they had I think they E I think she thought he either died or in the sense of like you let Hannah take them or that he probably got like remarried there and just like was living life there those are my only things but that yeah maybe all I could think maybe just the shock of it yeah but all I could think was all you set up was that that's true she thinks that the only person who loves her is June who's still trapped and that this guy doesn't like her and then he's like we're family and then it breaks her down but I'm like you guys had one I've had worst fights with so many friends of mine of people who I love who i' be like yeah of course it makes total sense I'm like you guys should have been if that's what you wanted to me to feel you guys should have been way more at each other's throats we get a lot more of them later on because then when she gets a little more rehabilitated to life both of them are like okay we need to find June or something like or she starts working at like the borders as like kind of rescue or help people that are hurt that are trying you know [ __ ] like that so you get more of them but again June is the main character so that's who who matters in this whole segma of six seasons um which I don't know if you know that actress who plays June she's a Scientologist really yeah I did not know that which when a lot of people found that out they like online a lot of people are like how dare you play a character like this and kind kind of believe in this like hardcore religion you know in a sense like playing like the opposite character or also people were like oh you're a Scientologist no wonder you play like that deranged character when she kind of like starts getting to that point or I think they even w a award for the cinematography of like zooming into her eyes and just like how kind of like that feeling was given just the way they shot it yeah I always find it interesting that back in my head I'm like she's a Scientologist yeah out of all of the things you can be she real crazy I the only uh the only other thing I knew that actually from was um Mad Men yep and which I have never I've only ever seen like very little of okay but after watching that show in the first season of this show I do not I don't know uh the the act's real name but I don't know I don't remember but I used to why people like her so much I do not think that she's very good no um even in this I don't think she's very good I think the story being told is fantastic I think everyone around her fantastic I remember watching her in madman and going is I it's fine but I guess I know later in the show her character becomes a lot more but I I couldn't really get into it but watching this where it's like just her and there's so much Focus and there's so much drama and emotion all this stuff I'm like I must be crazy because I know this sh after doing research I know that this woman is incredibly famous and very awarded and all this stuff and I just don't see I just don't see it and I'm like I don't the performances around her are so much better that I'm like I just don't get it um but I don't know I was wanted to ask like is that a me or do you like do you think that I think she's a good actress um like besides handmaid's tail a little bit of Mad Men I thought she was good like in The Invisible Man or like yeah I think she's a fine actress but again I think because I've watched all these Seasons I'm just kind of invested in like what the her character is going to do that I really don't even pay attention to all that um last note I have on the show uh is something that we've touched on before but I think it does this is like the big hitter of the whole it's it might as well be the freaking thesis of the of the show or the book is in the the way the show ends is uh uh one I oh my God so jise is uh they threat they she wakes up from her coma and she sent to death by Aunt Lydia who again amazing performance where like you really are feeling how much she care even though she's bat [ __ ] but she cares for her loves these women as her children yeah and she has to sentence this one to death who act you know for all of her you instability actually is one of the few who believe what's going on yeah um and it's choking her up and then they they put all the stones out and then she sends to stoning and they don't and then uh which is also the the uh the replacement ulka who um was fully bought in is like I don't want to do this and then the guy beats her like almost to death immediately and then June picks up a stone and does you know classic uh you know Bible proverb of let ye yet let he who is without sin cast the first stone and that's the whole yeah all what shown is that everyone picks up a stone they have their Stone and she drops it we're not doing this we're not doing this and it's you know it's a mix of this act of rebellion while also this one of the most famous Parables of the Bible yeah no we're all if we had all if we had been through what she's been through we probably would have done the same thing exact and we are not going to kill one of our own exactly no matter what and they have to stand together you know I I think that that is uh I don't know it one one of the most blatant kind of parallels of the you know now that I'm discussing it I think that that is kind that is a bigger point of that is New Testament so that is Jesus that's New Testament of going no don't do this don't kill you have no right to uh uh to to hurt someone or to punish someone based on their sin as people that's out of your hands and then he says you know that he was outstanded so maybe that is the maybe that's what this is trying to describe is this Old Testament Society is now being greatly affected by New Testament yeah I could definitely see that now that you like kind of like explain it in that way for sure I don't know but that's what's popped in my head talking about and on that note you guys are going to have to stay tuned for part two of Ted's experience as a youth Minister please check us out on socials please check us out on patreon uh as always if you're listening I love you love you bye