Concern about Philadelphia Phillies ace Zack Wheeler's injury on Tuesday? I The Phillies Show S1E32

hey this is Bryce Harper and welcome to the Philly [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] show hi everybody Welcome to the Philly show Ruben Amaro Jr Jim Salsbury Todd zi it is Wednesday July 10th 2024 we thought we would get together fellows because Bryce Harper came back last night Kyle schwarber came back last night seemed like a good time to get together and hash things out Kyle schwarber said before the game hopefully it's the last little speed bump that we hit and then in the fifth inning Zack Wheeler leaves with a back issue and then Johan Roos gets plunked on the right forearm in the seventh inning both of those guys leave the game both of them talked after the game both of them seem to think that they will be okay but uh let's start with the I don't know if he could say bad news but Zack Wheeler leaves the game in the fifth inning with what the Phillies have called left lower back tightness concerned well one of the things that made last night great I know there were the two injuries that uh caused a little bit of concern I think very minor concern I don't think either one of them are a big concern anyway the atmosphere was great 43,000 another sellout and Wheeler comes right out 97 97 98 strikes out maybe the best player in baseball in Otani and the place goes crazy I just thought wheeler came out with a chip on his shoulder and I thought he came out looking to make a statement against Cho Otani and certainly did it and he kind of like lit the lit the wick on the M80 that brought that ballpark alive but um to your point you could kind of see him lose his release point in that um in that what was it the fifth inning um and uh you know he was upping into righties was uping away to to lefties and you knew kind of something was up then you see seranthony get up in the bullpen and he's out of there you don't know if they're just conserving pitches with a big lead and he uh you know he lets on a little lower back tightness and it's been bothering him a couple starts but right um he said he intends to make his next one I'm not real concerned um but if they opted to keep him on a tight leash Sunday a short leash Sunday or even opted to skip him he doesn't think that's going to happen I I would be fine with it uh because it has bothered him just a little bit um these last couple starts um but it's Zack Wheeler he's hugely important to what you're gon to do the rest of the way hugely important to you know he's going to get the ball game one uh in October he's gonna probably get to you know get the ball maybe game one of every series if they can line it up the right way such an important piece um you want him 100% healthy not 99.999 you want him 100% so whatever it takes to get him there I think they need to look at it but um sure a little bit of concern but not not any worry right I agree yeah I'm not uh I'm not like the Panic boy but but I do um I what concerns me a little bit I've learned from uh Pat gillick there are two things that sort of bother me a little bit um with with picturers it's their back obviously their shoulders but beyond that with athletes it's backs because they can be really tricky um you know becomes a little bit of concern a guy like Bryce Harpo he has to manage his back you know Cole haml had to manage his back you know for for for years and years and years did a really good job of that um so they can be tricky and they can sort of pop up any time and so that's a little bit of a concern for me and I think that um I think it was really uh cautionary uh it was a cautionary move for them to get him out of the game they I mean if it was a game on the line that was super important he probably would have stayed in there and gutted it out I would think but uh the fact that he did mention it to them and he did feel like he got tweaked that concerns me a little bit that said I don't think it's a big deal it just has to be managed and uh it will be very curious to see if he actually pitches on Sunday he said he probably will and hopes he will but who knows kind of depends on you know I think the rest of these next maybe five games to see kind of where they stand as they move forward um if they continue to play decent baseball they win a couple of games they win the series in La then they might say you know [Music] what maybe we'll maybe skip him and and let him have his full rest and start him fresh coming back from the All-Star break I would um offer uh you talk about backs and being tricky I'd offer some wisdom that the philosopher Lenny dystra once um shared he said and he is a philosopher and he had a bad back he said backs are tricky dude because they're connected to everything and right it's so right you know he's he he is indeed geni genius I mean the other thing they can do guys is coming out of the break is if they feel like they need an extra day with him or two you could you could push him back you know you have him start on Sunday coming out of the break G him start Monday coming out of the break in Minnesota if he felt like he needed more time so they have some wiggle room there to keep him safe but but Jim you you were right that oani at bat in the first inning that was really cool that was his sixth hardest pitch that strikeout pitch to Otani so he definitely weared back and gave him a little bit yeah there's no question in my mind that that that I do believe that that Zack Wheeler has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder because he didn't get the Sai Young he should have woned what 20 21 21 um and he got screwed there there's no question in my mind that he got screwed he should have been the Sai Young Award winner hands down um I think that you know he's one of those guys that sort of feel semi disrespected I don't think I think people Now understand who he is and how he can what kind of impact he has as a pitcher I think that if I was going to take one pitcher to pitch a baseball game right now it's a little bit like Kurt Schilling back in his when he was one of the best pitchers in baseball I would take that man and put him on the Mount And just because I've seen what he's done under those circumstances I know what his demeanor is like um I I I mean I just love the way he goes about it and um I have a great deal of respect for him as he's built his as he as he's matured as a pitcher now um over the years instead of being a thrower and I think it started at the end of 2018 I've said it a million times that second half of that season he was remarkable and I think it put him on this path um and I do think that he wanted to show the world and set the tone like hey man here I am here I am and here are the Phillies and I'm setting the tone and you know the Phillies just took it from there I also think you know he he loves being healthy early in his career he was a number six pick in the country he was a huge draft pick first rounder by the Giants ends up with the Mets loaded with potential I remember they were like dubbing at the billion dollar rotation up in New York with all those guys the Grom wheeler Matt Harvey Matt Harvey um mattz and then it should have been it should have been just electric it really Elric you can't do what you you know you need to do when when you're not healthy I think he loves the fact that he's healthy and he can be that that guy finally um he pitches with Edge he's got a little ornery to him um you know you got you got to love that edge he's got a little yeah he's definitely salty you know what's funny is that Jeff Jeff Frank C when he was on last week said if I have to pick one pitcher in all major league baseball I'm picking to start a game I'm picking Zack Wheeler I know I was watching MLB Network the other day and they had some panel on saying we had to pick one guy to start a big game I'm picking Zack Wheeler so nationally he's getting that respect but it is cool that he still got that little chip on his shoulder of I want to win a sa young I don't maybe you know I'm using that as fuel still and I'm gonna pretend perceive that I'm being disrespected or not acknowledge as much as I should be acknowledged but um I just want to mention this and then we'll we'll move on so if the the wheeler thing is is especially important because Tyler Phillips is now going to start on Saturday against the A's Michael Marcato Robert Thompson explained that Brian Kaplan their assistant pitching coach pitcher of director of pitching develop velopment in the minor leagues they were already going to move Marcato back into the bullpen in Triple A if he had not been brought up so they're going to make so they're going to start that transition now Tyler Phillips is gonna start on Saturday so with Taiwan Walker on the injured list with Spencer turble on the injur list now you start really getting into the depths of your your minor league pitching depth and in Triple A right now your next man up probably be Co Kobe Allard who's on the 40 Man Max Castillo who just came back he's pitched okay since he came back back from from Clearwater and and David Buchanan who's now in the 40 man Mick AEL as we know we've talked about has not had a good year it's not really an option at this point so that's another reason why you want to keep Zack Wheeler healthy because you don't want to keep dipping into that dipping into that starting pitching depth so uh something to keep an eye on going forward if Zach doesn't start on Saturday this back issue keeps flaring up so they're looking to improve the bullpen it looks like uh I think we all think they will do something in the bullpen at the deadline um they're throwing marcado's name in there as a potential option for Bullpen help in the second half that that's what it appears to be yeah yeah I I don't think there's any question about that and and also you know all you got to do is look at the Los Angeles Dodgers to talk about you know pitching depth and and where they stand because that's really the separator I believe between the Phillies and the Dodgers now the Dodgers I think as a whole offensively at least with the other guys when Harper was out and schwarber was out JT's out I think the Los Angeles Dodgers had the edge offensively I do think with those guys back it sort of evens things out maybe Phillies are even a little bit better I think the rankings sort of prove that out right now that the Dodgers are a little bit better offensively at this very moment um but I think that'll change as as those guys get healthier and come back and start getting into their legs again um I think they're the LA Dodgers Bullpen Just a Touch better than than uh than the Phillies right now not much but pretty pretty much even but the real separator is the Phillies over the Dodgers as far as the the rotation is concerned and the Dodgers have a real issue there I mean the kid who's going to throw tonight in stone he's really stepped forward and and he's pitching very very well he's a little bit like Christopher Sanchez in that regard for the Phillies it's going to be a great matchup today but but you start looking at the guys you know the kid that threw yesterday had a great year last year um but he's bouncing back from injury uh they lost uas because he did his thing they don't have a walker buer um he's really kind of struggling to get back off of Tommy John been a couple of years now and hasn't really become the guy I think he's now he's got some kind of shoulder thing or something um you know they don't yam they don't have yam down they got Kershaw down well you start and they lost they yesterday they lost glass now he's not going to pitch on Thursday strikeout leader in the league right so you start and glass now is a guy that you know they put a lot of money into him but the man hadn't pitched more than what 125 innings in his whole career before they gave him that big number so listen they have talent but they also have to stay healthy and that's why I think it's so important uh to have pitching depth number one and also to really take care of your starters because they're the most important part especially when you get down to the playoffs you need people who can win baseball games and keep your ball your ball Club in the game and you know the Phillies have some really really good ones in Suarez and Nola and and Wheeler and you don't guys whove who've done it you know and and you got to keep those guys healthy before the game uh Bryce Harper comes out and talks and Ruben I don't know if you caught this so Bryce is out there and says yeah I feel fine but uh I'm not I'm not I'm gonna play it safe I'm playing it safe and then I think it was Matt Gelb said uh what do you mean by play it safe he's like you know uh not throwing the cloak on not throwing the cloak on not not gonna be like a your not gonna be your superhero whoever your Caped Crusader of choice is uh Superman or Batman or whatever he's not gonna do that I think maybe he was referring to the invisible cloak that he throw oh that that could yeah maybe that's what that is maybe that's that on the Bas yeah but but then so then in the first inning he hits this line drive shot to Freddy Freeman Freddy misses it clangs off his glove and Bryce books it down the line that's the fastest clocked time he has had all season that is the fastest Sprint speed he has had since July 15 of 20123 29.1 feet per second so um I guess he put the cloak on there that one time I you just knew that that's impossible for him he's he just can't if the moment arises he thinks he can beat out of play he's gonna do it it's tough for him to dial it back 100 per. tough he doesn't he doesn't do he does not dial it back I mean that that's that's the danger and that's why you have to be careful like when he gets on the field he's going to go if he needs to stretch a single into a double or he needs to you know die for a ground ball or whatever it is it I mean he's instinctively going to do that it's tough to have players back off it's like taking your nine iron and saying okay listen I can hit this 140 yards but it's a 130 yard shot and I'm going to back off a little bit then you end up shanking it you know to the other to the other Fairway um I think it's really I think it's it's that's why it's so important and Rob Thompson talked about a little bit last night you know that's why that's why you got to be careful because when they get on the field I think a guy like Trey Turner may may not and you saw him when he was first came back he was sort of cruising around the base paths yeah but a guy like Bryce Harper is a little bit like Aaron Rowan they're you know they're I don't know how any other way to say it they're sort of balls out when it's time to be balls out and so they're going to go play and um and so that's why you have to be pretty careful about certain guys when they when they decide that they're ready to go well the explosion of that Sprint confirmed he's 100% there was a lot of hand ringing oh they're bringing him back too early I if I saw him on the field or he was activated I knew he was 100% healthy because there is no way Bryce Harper Rob Thompson Dave nebroski Sam fault Paul Booky Steve cin the Phillies baseball Ops people and their medical people were going to sign off on that including Bryce if he was if he was not 100% % they had time on their side they the standings on their side uh if he needed another day or two they were going to give it to him but like you said the other day Todd he slid aggressively into home PL in Atlanta during his um uh practice session the other day during a workout I mean come on you know he the guy's really good at messaging I mean that was kind of his little message to everybody that I am healthy I am ready definitely no doubt no doubt hey can we talk a little bit about the bottom of the lineup yesterday and and and rafie Maran CU I think that he is seven hits by he's pushing well those guys seven for nine with what seven runs scored or something like that but yeah um and I love the depth that it's created by having those guys back in the lineup there's no question about that but the thing that really makes me sort of wonder what's what the next step is is Rafael masan as far as the short as far as the catching situation is concerned because JT's coming back and JT may be coming back for the next series I think he's really close they may push him to the to the end of it I know they're talk that's what they've talked about but and waiting for the All-Star Game and that this one of the reasons they might do that is because maran's played so well but the question is who gets sent out because um I think maybe we talked about this stubs does have an option left and I didn't realize that he did and so it's going to be one of those balancing acts I think you know do you take the best player because right now I think the best player is Rafael marshan if you look at the totality of what he brings to the table and or do you really worry about it changing the clubhouse in some way shape or form because he's a big part you know stubs is a very big part of that Clubhouse um it it's going to be an interesting it's a great problem to have but it will be interesting to see how it goes well you know I think there's some variables are when JT comes back I mean you know are you gonna cut back on his time would Maron would the backup be getting more time or is it going to be you know business as usual for JT is going to catch you know the the vast majority and in the backup's going to get maybe a day day game after a night game I I and we said this I said this the other I lean towards him to to Triple A if JT has to go down again for for 10 days or a couple weeks uh I'm bringing marchan back and I'm installing him as the regular uh or the bulk of the playing time guy and I want to keep him sharp and I want to keep him ready and I'm telling them that that you know you you're our number one backup catcher but you just happen to be 60 miles up the road staying sharp uh and I do think stubs has a real benefit in the clubhouse so you know that's the way would go um right now but all bets are off if they're going to really ease JT in and he's only going to catch maybe 50% at a time for two weeks or three weeks at that point I'm probably going to keep marchan um and they haven't revealed their plan nor would they they keep that stuff really close to the vest but you're right marchan was so impressed Ruben Todd he I mean he attacked two balls he pulled two balls down the down the right field line where he just attacked the ball and that just it shows so much confidence and then there was another time he kind of filets one down the left field line he's on base all night he's using the whole field you know he's catching a really good game with Zack Wheeler and it appears it's it's it's not easy to win Zack Wheeler's trust but it appears he has yeah he has was Garrett stubs since the end of May he's batting 276 uh I know he's he's really struggled earlier this season so if if they do bring JT back and he does get the bulk of the the playing time I also think it they would they would keep stub send marshan down and and Rob is great at that messaging he told Cody Clemens the same thing he had a great message to Cody Clemens and why they sent him down as opposed to maybe keeping him up and having some list listen not enough playing time for you we want you to go down there you're going to play Outfield every three or four days or every four day or four days a week and just really tried to pump them up and make him feel good making him feel like he's G to come back I feel like you know Rob would if they do send Marshon down he would give him a ilar message where it's like listen you're our guy don't worry and and you'll be back at some point if if we need you and you know keep playing hard yeah I think sometimes when you get sent down as a player and you've done well um it doesn't make you feel any better necessarily because you're going from Heaven to Hell I've been there and done it I did it in 93 when uh we we needed a pitcher I think Paul Fletcher came up and it ended up costing me like $10,000 a lot of money back then but I got sent out just before because because we had two like back to like a rain date and then like a backto back you know 13 inning jobs and we ended up at going to like 11 pitchers or something um imagine that going to 11 pitchers and I got sent down and then um I didn't feel any better but I went down having played well and W I won a couple of games and so I think your demeanor seems to be better and the messaging is important and I I think you're right um but you make a great Point Jim if the guy's only playing 50% of those games uh if JT's playing 50% of the games maybe marshan stays that said I do believe that they that may be the reason why they wait all the way to the end of the allstar break to bring him back because I think that they probably want him to catch 90% of the games and have you know stubs go ahead and do what he's doing and that again gives them license Andor meaning to sending marshan back and just letting him get Stay Ready in case he's got to do the bulk something else happens and he's got to catch you know more and more regularly just wait until the end of the All-Star he's too important let him really get his feet it's only a month he's only a month out of the surgery I think I think he's two days shy of a month so if he goes to the end of the allar break he gonna be just over five weeks which is really a good quick recovery I mean they said about a month to me five and a half weeks is still about a month give them the time you got this lead he's crucial and you know on game 162 his season is just starting give him the time we didn't really get into Kyle Kyle schwarber had a great game too last night getting him back in the leadoff spot he hits the uh that's well single single to right center field in the second inning scored a couple runs walks to set up the bases set up the Grand Slam for Tre Turner it it's a you know it's amazing you get schwar back and Harper back that lineup looks a whole lot different he tried to uh he tried to take Kiki Hernandez to Center City he popped it up and you could see them uh giving each other a little razin on on the field yeah I don't think schwarber was too happy that he popped up there he he missed he missed one he missed one no but he he got a huge two out I mean base hit and and that's the beauty of what Kyle schorer it's a perfect example set of a microcosm of his season because he's not necessarily trying to Drive the ball out of the ballpark is's utilizing the middle of the field something he wanted to do all off seon thought about it wanted to have a better at batting average wanted to be a more complete hitter getting his base hits and that was a perfect example he just drove the crap out of that one to the middle of the field and right through the infield we'll get into this maybe some other time but sounds like the rehab assignment is dead no dead de than a door nail it's dead than a door nail if you're a veteran with some big time I ain't got I ain't gone on no rehab assignment ain't happening they could try to they could try to simulate as much as possible that those boys aren't going down there they going they're not buying any steak dinners for the boys anymore they almost should just send some they want should just buy a a spread for Old Time sick just say hey I'm not down there guys but I am thinking of you thinking of me guys ining and uh you know in reading and Lehi Valley yeah we'll take care of you guys a couple of big steak dinners sent with love Trey Turner Kyle schwarber Bryce Harper you know so I want wrap this up this episode was brought to you by shy vintage Sports uh if you're headed to the Phillies A's game this Saturday be sure to check out shy vintage sports's 10th anniversary tailgate starting at 1M in the endlot the endlot they have a bus full of Philadelphia a memorabilia on display along with a brand new tailgate Ale Beer Brew especially for the occasion so come celebrate Shy's 10 years of Reviving Philly sports history and create a little of your own find more info at shy sports.com they have their own beer shy Sports has their own beer for this event and you know uh fransy and La have their own beer through K Haw and Brewing Company and now I'm wondering when are we gonna get our be next are we next next does somebody want to brew us a beer because I will very happily get on board the three of our will the three of our heads on a can of beer I mean come on can't miss let's go can't miss can't miss all right guys well thanks a lot that was fun we will be back again later this week to uh wrap up the Dodger series and preview this city Series this former City series A's Phillies smell you later guys smell you Jim this is the the Philly show if you haven't already please subscribe to the Philly show wherever you get your podcasts you can also watch us on our YouTube channel if you like what we do give us a review tell a friend catch Ruben Jim and me on Phillies Nation TV presented by Valley Forge tourism new episodes air an hour before every Saturday Phillies game on NBC Sports Philadelphia replays air throughout the week and on philliesnation tocom get more of Ruben's analysis during before and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia on the sports radio 94 WIP Morning Show and MLB Network read Jim at the All City Network at all phly.com find more of me at mlb.com the Phillies be newsletter and occasionally on MLB Network