What about the hostages? Netanyahu pushes back against pressure for ceasefire deal • FRANCE 24

can this be considered a turning point for Israelis after the October 7th attack by Hamas the nation put aside bitter differences but after the killing of six Israeli hostages Q the biggest protest since last year's attempted judicial overhaul by Benjamin nany's hard-right government demonstrators accuse a prime minister of piling on the demands to extend a war that's become his ticket they say to staying in power not at all insists netan he's doubling down over his decision to now prioritize the occupation of the Philadelphia Corridor between Gaza and Egypt all this while pushing back against growing pressure from allies he's branded as a shameful the UK's decision to suspend certain arms export licenses what's the plan in London and Washington what's the plan for Netanyahu can he lead a divided nation in a war that's also involving more and more the West Bank and the Lebanese border for all the protests does he still have the support he needs to keep going today in the France 24 debate we're asking uh about the pressure uh surrounding those hostages with us uh in this Edition we'll be joined shortly by France 24 correspondent iris mockler from London Nomi barakov associate fellow at the think tank chadam house welcome back to the show thank you thank you from Tel Aviv is Israeli Palestinian peace activist shahad bashara of the standing together movement welcome to the show as you speak uh we're seeing live images of uh a nightly rally that's getting underway where you are in in Tel Aviv hi hi everyone and from Washington heled elgindy director of the Middle East institute's Palestinian Israeli Affairs program good to see you thanks for having me you can listen like And subscribe to the France 24 debate on Apple podcast Spotify and other fine streaming services no one is more committed to freeing the hostages than me the words of Benjamin Netanyahu earlier this Tuesday tried telling that though to the thousands including Israel's president who a day earlier attended the funeral of 23-year-old Israeli American HS Goldberg Poland for international audiences his parents had become the face of the ordeal of families meeting with the likes of Joe Biden and Pope Francis meeting with them it turns out in vain okay sweet boy go now on your journey I hope it's as good as the trips you dreamed about because finally my sweet boy finally finally finally finally you're free I will love you and I will miss you every single day for the rest of my life but you're right here I know you're right here I just have to teach myself how to feel you in a different way and hsh there's one last thing I need you to do for us now I need you to help us stay strong and I need you to help us survive Nami barakov is that the the outpouring that we saw on Monday something of a Turney Point yes I think it is a turning point there been a buildup there have been various turning points I think there vast vast majority of the Israeli population believes that prime minister Netanyahu has they believe that he's responsible um for the uh Hamas killing of the six hostages that could he is the person been obstructed one in mediators Qatar us working painstakingly for 11 months to try to secure a deal both Hamas lead Y and Prime had their moment in which they have changed um their however prime minister Netanyahu has time and time again added conditions after the agreement that knew Hamas would not be able to um live with not not be able to live with no me apologies but we're we're the the uh audio quality is a little bit uh sketchy still so what we're going to do is we're going to call you right back apologies for that and and reconnect hopefully it will be better uh but to pick up on the point you're making uh Netanyahu saying no one will preach to me on this issue those were his words this Tuesday uh Netanyahu now insists there cannot be a cease fire deal without control of that Philadelphia Corridor Emerald Maxwell has more in front of a room full of journalists prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu pled his case for why he wouldn't give up Israeli control the so-called Philadelphia Corridor in order to reach a ceasefire deal the Access of Evil needs the Philadelphia Corridor and for that reason we must control the Philadelphia Corridor Hamas insists for that re that we not be there and for that reason I insist that we be there 14 km long and 100 m wide on the southern edge of the Gaza Strip bordering Egypt and including the Rafa crossing the Philadelphia Corridor was a demilitarized zone before Israel seized it in May as it expanded its Gaza ground offensive Israeli troops have since uncovered tunnels there they say have been used to smuggle weapons and ammunition into Gaza but as part of a ceasefire deal Hamas has long demanded a complete Israeli withdrawal from the strip while Egypt objects to Israeli military presence On the Border netanyahu's comments came at the end of a day of Nationwide protests in Israel the recovery of the bodies of six hostages in Gaza on Sunday has fueled anger and growing accusations that the Prime Minister was looking for excuses to prolong the war this time it's the Philadelphia Corridor which is really very insignificant in the um in the broader context of the war between us and theas in Gaza all the Security Experts all the generals all the heads of mad of the Secret Service they all said we can pull out and if at some point in the future there will arise a need to react uh against the Philadelphia Corridor we will be able to do it analysts say that what's at stake is really yah's political survival which depends on plating his far-right Coalition Partners whose parties reject any concessions to reach a deal as promised we can now join France 24 correspondent Iris mocker uh in Jerusalem Iris you heard in that report former Israeli Prime Minister ahud olmert uh saying that the Philadelphia Corridor is quote insignificant when it comes to the overall military uh picture is that the general consensus this Tuesday I tell you what the consensus is the consensus is that Netanyahu has raised this very late in the peace uh if it was so vital why wasn't um the Philadelphia Corridor the first place that Israel went to uh when it um during at the beginning of October when it attacked Gaza why wasn't it the first location uh second of all why did they wait till May to do that and and uh we heard today from one of the generals former generals now a politician who had been in the cabinet at the time who was saying Netanyahu didn't want to go south he own didn't want to expand the Gaza War they had to persuade him to do that so if all of that is right then why is the Philadelphia Corridor suddenly so vital and yes there are other we hear from a number of sources not just from the defense minister yav Gallant but from a number of military people who say that if Israel let's just take the first phase of this deal Israel pulls out for 6 weeks there's no reason it can't return that 6 weeks is not vital uh to any military operation whereas it is vital for the hostages um the few or the remaining the hostages who remain alive at the moment and militarily irus if uh Israel is A House Divided can they can he continue fighting that's a very very good question I heard someone saying um today a relative of one of the hostages or in that camp who said you know if we don't do this now if we don't go and rescue our hostages then who's going to enlist in the Army if they know that if they do get taken hostage or taken captive no one's going to go back and try and get them you know part of the ethos of Israel and the Israeli military has always been um we all stand together where nobody's Left Behind uh and here people are being left behind and they're not even soldiers they they were people who were taken from their beds um on the 7th of October some of them still in their pajamas and without shoes so they were civilians in the purest sense of the word and they're not being retrieved um or rescued either some are being retrieved of course bodies are being retrieved but live hostages are not being rescued so time is off the essence and the Israeli ethos people really do feel that that um sense of unity is uh under threat Shad bishara the the last two nights when you've been in Tel Aviv is it a sense that you were back to you the the same mood that existed before October 7th when Israel was bitterly divided over this judicial overhaul actually we the overall picture that we witnessed in the last two days is actually very very a it's stronger a in the Jule at back then we didn't see a half million of people going out to the streets and we saw yesterday and two days ago that actually hundred of thousand these numbers were not ER witnessed back then that's first of all then second of all I think there is kind of Awakening in the Israeli Society this Awakening that actually shows that no no more military operation or or no more military pressure can bring back the hostages alive and therefore the only way to ensure a bringing back the hostages alive is through a deal and through a ceas fire ceasefire agreement a until until two days ago people actually were doubting whether it is a correct to continue the war or not but the a critical point that we are witnessing right now in the Israeli Society is actually showing that they starting realizing that there is the military pressure actually brings the hostages dead and of course the Philadelphia Corridor is kind of Netanyahu way to run away from a hostage hostage deal because as we know in Biden's framework of the deal the Philadelphia Corridor was not mentioned at all and then suddenly this is what's going to ER save the people or ensure the people's security and I think it actually ensures only netanyahu's survival in this extremist part ER far wi government but he's still got that majority in Parliament shot so uh at the end of the day um he can resist the pressure right at the end of the day he can I think the situation right now that it is a dead end I mean he knows that the pressure actually can can make his government collapse and eventually we will have a new election and he will eventually lose his power I mean he he can try to survive as as much as he can but people actually are realizing actually against his aggressive policies against his the lack of transparency in his the in in in his managing the situation militarily mainly uh H Del gindy I don't know if you brought a crystal ball to this conversation but uh uh certainly if we take a step back rather where do you think the Tipping Point uh would come from when when we saw how brutal the war was a few months back how there wasn't any more ceasefires after November where did you think the Tipping Point would come would it come from abroad or would it come from domestic politics that's a good question I mean I I think I think uh either one at this point could could tip the balance uh one or both of them uh certainly the kind of protests we're seeing now in Israel we have not seen throughout the war um uh after almost a full year um it may not be enough in in the end because uh Netanyahu has been able to uh manipulate his political opposition he's been able to neutralize uh that opposition and he's managed to stay in power this long and I think he's defied all the odds um in doing so and he's managed also to Forstall any Commission of inquiry uh into the failures of October 7th so he's really been quite successful at engineering um his his ability to to remain in power and uh it's not clear whether simply you know massing in the streets will will be enough to bring down uh the Coalition obviously it will take uh a vote by the nesset to to do that it's not clear that they have the votes but there's another path uh to uh to pressuring Netanyahu and that is the International Community and especially the United States um the Biden Administration has made clear many times uh publicly um that there is nothing more to be gained from Israel's uh military operation uh that the the the framework for ceasefire is in place um and only needs to be uh signed and and and implemented um and yet Netanyahu has defied the United States at at every stage um and the United States has also ured that Netanyahu had the ability to do the very things that they didn't want him to do like invade Rafa like Escala in the West Bank now um and and to to continue using uh humanitarian crisis and starvation as a weapon these are all things that the United States has warned Israel not to do but it continues to supply the weapons for Israel to do those things and so there is a a leverage that is not being used by the Biden Administration in particular If he if they genuinely wanted this war to end uh they could do so but it would require uh paying a domestic political cost in the case of President Biden which he has not wanted to do yeah and I want to get back to that point uh with you a little bit later on but just harging back to your to your first point the fact that over the past 11 months Benjamin Netanyahu has proved solid in the art of political survival in remarks on Monday Israel's prime minister did ask for forgiveness after the killing of those six hostages let's take a listen I told the families and I repeat it again tonight I ask for your forgiveness for not bringing them back alive we were close but we didn't succeed uh Iris mocker remember at the beginning of the war when uh uh there was a complaints that Netanyahu had not issued a formal apology uh for uh failure years to prevent October 7th was that the apology there no it wasn't for two reasons one is he has not taken responsibility for the events of October the 7th till this day in fact in his um press conference last night he he referred to it as October the 9th and I a lot of people were saying on Twitter perhaps he thinks that's when he became prime minister so he doesn't have to take any responsibility for Israel's greatest catastrophe for many is certainly going back at least 50 years um so it it isn't an taking of responsibility it was a slightly you know it did follow the president at H Goldberg Poland's funeral apologizing and perhaps his advisers told him he should make an apology as well and he said we didn't get there in time which is an interesting way to phrase it because this wasn't a rescue mission they stumbled upon these bodies not far from where they stumbled upon the last Hostage to be rescued alive um faran aladi about a week ago uh so they were operating in those tunnels that's the Israeli military and they found the bodies they weren't there on a rescue mission so you know yes it's true he did Apologize uh but not all the families accepted that apology because he was making condolence visits today and the wife of one of the hostages killed so one of those six who were returned and was being buried she refused to hear him or see him yeah Netanyahu blowing heart and cold he also Brands as shameful the UK's decision to suspend some arms export licenses a decision justified by the new labor government of kir starmer we've suspended the export licenses on 30 out of 350 Parts these are ones that could be uh a clear risk in breaching international law in Gaza um but our determination to stand with Israel remains Resolute and absolute all right we've reconnected by the magic of telephones with Nomi barakov uh in London noi were you surprised by that announcement from the UK government no not at all I think it's been coming I've been stating it's been coming for some time we have a new government um have a new attorney general uh Richard hermer we have advice that the previous government had refused to uh make public but it was pretty clear that the advice had stated that um they are suspecting that that Israel is violating International humanitarian law and the UK is uh concerned about its own role um in um complicity so I think they are which is an international law um issue and there is a problem there so they suspended 30 out of 350 export licenses for arms and I think that's a beginning and I think the trend will increase as long as the War increases and I think other countries will follow the UK and let me ask you noi uh the uh conservative opposition saying the timing of this announcement is wrong it's not the right time to be doing it uh where does public opinion lie where you are I think it's never the right time you know it's sort of it maybe even late the right time would have been a long time ago um and I think public opinion by and large lies with David Lamy the secret um the the foreign secretary's um decision uh an announcement that he made yesterday to suspend 30 export licenses now Britain exports 1% of Israel's weapons the United States 69% there the commander and Chief's patience seems to be wearing fin let's listen to Joe Biden speaking Monday are you planning to present a final hostage field to the uh both sides this we we're very close to that Mr President do you think it's time for p prime minister Netanyahu to do more on this issue do you think he's doing enough no no and that's all he had to say more on that uh let let me ask you uh H El gindy picking up on what you were saying earlier first of all what is this final hostage deal well I mean it's it's a it's almost uh bizarre to hear the words final hostage deal I we've been told for the past nine or ten months that we're on the verge of clinching a deal it's just around the corner just over the horizon um and we never quite get there uh and so I find it hard to believe that if this last push uh by the this latest push uh by the administration um to get a ceasefire deal that that they will simply call it quits and say well there's no No Deal to be had I think that would be very um unsatisfactory to the American public certainly to Israelis and and Palestinians and others in the region um and it would be a very bad look for the United States so I I you know I think the the push the current push looks a light like a lot like the previous ones uh in that there is a lot of cajoling um there's a lot of word smithing um but at the end of the day there's a refusal to kind of um accurately diagnose the problem and the the consensus certainly on this panel but I think internationally is that the single greatest obstacle to a ceasefire deal is the person of Benjamin Netanyahu himself I mean he has thwarted agreements time and again he's added new conditions he's escalated through assassin ations through um escalating on the Northern front with Lebanon through most recently in the last week uh attempting to blow up the West Bank in a similar way that they have in Gaza so he's never missed an opportunity to try and escalate and undercut a ceas fire and the and so it I think it behooves the president of the United States to call it as it is the way the rest of the world sees it and and let me ask you this let me ask you kind of Wishful Thinking yeah Will KLA Harris be any different from Joe Biden well I don't think Comm Harris wants to inherit this uh problem if we're still negotiating at a ceasefire in January of 2025 um that would be a massive failure that would essentially be the legacy of Joe Biden uh of you know failed us diplomacy um so but but I do think KLA Harris has shown sign that she would have a different approach um there's only so far she's willing to go to diverge from the president since she is after all the sitting vice president uh and has to stay within the four corners of the official Biden policy but I think she's given a number of of indications that um that she would have a different approach that she's not going to necessarily give Netanyahu such a free hand uh and a blank check uh the way uh Joe Biden has um but she's also I think just talked about the issue in much more human terms um something that Joe Biden has really struggled with uh something as basic is acknowledging Palestinian Humanity or expressing empathy with Palestinians that's not something Joe Biden has been able to do but it's something that KLA Harris at least um has done at least rhetorically and and I think that is one of the signs that I think um suggests that she will probably have a different approach Shad Bashar your your thoughts on this and what can move the needle ER what can move the needle actually is nothing but to change direction change direction in means of we have been always hearing I mean for decades managing the conflict and we know that the the core problem of the con conflict is actually the occupation The Siege and the military control over a millions of Palestinians in the West Bank East Jerusalem East Jerusalem as well as the being inside of Israel being classified as Class B citizens I mean the the ideology of the Jewish Supremacy this is what actually needs to be treated first in order to actually move the needle moving the needle I mean with the current situation in Gaza is actually is actually we're seeing it it in the West Bank recently and the kind of the we kind of we are facing it ourselves as the Palestinian citizens of Israel in a way of silencing arresting as well as fighting from our job so the main the core the core problem is actually to solve and to get a resolution a diplomatic resolution for the conflict itself and not managing the conflict and putting the occupation on the side and H trying to and showing that everything is fine no everything is not fine unless we actually get a just a just peace just peace that ensures security and freedom for all who lives in this land between the river and the Sea Shad bishara you heard uh Iris moer describing the shock of uh what was the biggest attack on Israel in in in half a century uh now nearly 11 months on are there people that you find from your personal experience more people willing to talk about what you've just described longer term Solutions I mean people are aware right now that the core problem is not only the event the tragic tragic event of the 7th of October I mean I mean the whole history of this area actually is the tragic for everyone but is it is it as impossible today to talk about that as it was at the say the end of October I don't think it's impossible but actually ER I I think that somehow we need to build the trust again between both sides and this is the the problem right now building trust again after what happens in the 7th of October and actually h building a trust uh after what the Palestinians have been endured IR mocker with hindsight speaking on the first Tuesday in September uh all those times that Anthony blinkin the US Secretary of State's been to Israel and talked about the day after how do they ring see that's the interesting question um and that was going through my mind as I was listening to uh Benjamin Netanyahu last night let let say you take his strategic assessment as correct and Israel must remain Israeli troops must remain in the Philadelphia Corridor that was it there was nothing further there was nothing about you know what happens next what happens next with the hostages will there be a deal in that case what happens next with Gaza what's the plan for Gaza that there hasn't been that for the entire war and that's why uh that lack of a strategy has been something that I think almost every military leader former General Security Service person you speak to that's what they all talk about you know you can keep fighting you can have a Forever War but what comes after and what's your vision and there was no vision from Netanyahu and I guess that goes back to the original Point um you need a Forever War if you want to be a forever prime minister you're not going to have any resolution to all these issues um if if you're not aiming for a resolution and that includes a two-state solution and that includes looking back and seeing what brought how these two sides got to this point and that includes some acknowledgement from Benjamin Netanyahu of that divide and Rule um policy of his which included funding openly funding um Hamas for years you know3 million in cash from Kat coming in via the Israeli checkpoints to Gaza for Hamas to spend on arms all those things have to be looked at uh with a vision for what who will rule Gaza would it be Hamas would it be the Palestinian Authority who would be on the RAF checkpoint if Israel were to remain none of that no vision of any kind let alone the further things you've just been discussing which is how you build trust between two peoples um to have some kind of Accord again you know I have to tell you one thing many many years ago when I wasn't here as a permanent correspondent um I did an interview with Muhammad dhan of all people and we asked him I was there for an interview and we asked him um what's the future going to bring and he said Israel and the Palestinians are going to Hells together and I've been thinking about that a lot since October the 7th because I feel my job here is to Chronicle two peoples who brought each other to their lowest points ever Nomi barakov you work at a think tank uh your job is to think about the day after uh do you find that more Israelis are willing to engage in that conversation yes I I think we're at this turning point where Israelis realize that the fact that there isn't an Israeli um official sort of day after plan means that the law that the war is going to go on and on and it's only when the end goal is clear and you carve that um very clear path with benchmarks towards two states living with full sovereignty in Independence side by side that really one can reach that solution so you know Mohamad Bas in the UAE there are you know plenty you have yaser arafat's nephew n Al Kida has just come out with a peace plan post you know day off including day after with ehmer who you aired earlier in the program former Israeli Prime Minister liud prime minister so you have Israelis and Palestinians sitting together and working through back channels I'm involved in various channels to um work out the plan towards you the F the goal that will be security and stability for the whole region which will include of course how will Gaza be governed after Israeli withdrawal assuming that Israel will not stay in the Philadelphia Corridor the Philadelphia Corridor is a 14 kilometer Corridor that um is part of the uh Egyptian Israeli Camp David 1978 Accord Egypt won't allow an Israeli presence there they won't divert from what has been agreed in the agreement and they may take take a tougher stance and nanahu knows this all too well so yes it is very important and I think Israelis realize and they're also demonstrating not for netan the outdoor of Netanyahu an end of the war and um and and many of them for an end of the occupation not all of them uh hared alindi again do you see uh the same uptake in uh plans to uh to to to reverse this downward spiral that Iris described well part of the problem on the Palestinian side is that there is a real lack of leadership uh the leadership of President Mahmud Abbas has simply not been up to the task of responding or being able to to respond to the existential threat that Palestinians face in Gaza as well as in the West Bank so there's a real failure of of vision and Leadership on the Palestinian side that is a that is a gaping hole that will have to be plugged in any kind of day after scenario or future if there's a future for a two-state solution you need to have not just people who can govern Gaza but people on the Palestinian side who can lead who have a strategic Vision um and that is not in place there are a number of people who are vying for that role um in the event that uh abass passes from the scene um but we're still uh we're still a long way uh from uh from that Vision Iris mockler uh there's this question of uh who speaks with whom uh you know this is another uh side of effect of the war not ending people are still traumatized Israelis are still traumatized by October the 7th because until the hostages come home it's not actually over so while the war doesn't end while the while the Gaza War doesn't end while the displacement in the north that's the North of Israel the south of Lebanon doesn't end while this escalation in the West Bank doesn't end the war's ongoing and then there's no plans for the day after certainly not from this government the people the who is talking to whom would not be members of this right-wing extremist government in many ways and some of them are extremist settlers who will don't want to divide the West Bank and don't want specifically don't want a two-state solution in fact part of their aim is to return to Gaza so you know they're not a large number or large proportion of this government but it does exist and they're still in power so while they are um the law of the land in Israel no one formal there's no uh formal discussions but there are um I have seen erud olmert talking with um nasar Al kidway and with another Palestinian leader I guess the truth is what you need is Israeli elections what you desperately need is Palestinian elections um because it's now I think the 19th year is is yes I think it's the 19th or even now possibly the 20th year of president abas in his you know initially 4year term so all of these things mean that there's just stasis here it's it's paralyzed and until there's new leadership I have to say on both sides you won't have formal discussions even if you do have back Channel discussions and just on that point Iris uh we saw an Israeli News Outlet Channel 12 report that uh there was a big shouting match inside the cabinet on Sunday uh between the Prime Minister and his defense minister over this issue of whether to press over the Philadelphia Corridor that story is a gone away yeah no it's part of the ongoing terrible relationship between the Prime Minister and the defense minister uh the defense minister who is who is a right-winger too actually but wasn't born in the lickwood if you like came from another party um he takes a strategic view a more strategic view a more traditional Israeli view this government is an unusual Israeli government and it takes a more rightwing extremist view um and so what you have is Netanyahu representing the right-wing extremists in his government fighting with um Gallant with the defense minister who stands up against him and indeed the Philadelphia Corridor what he was saying I guess is what the people on the street are saying which is there are two aims stated aims of this war destroying Hamas um and freeing the hostages and it's time for Israel to prioritize freeing the hostages over the destruction of Hamas I mean that's the call from the streets and in effect that's what Gallant is saying as well because he says if you only have a six week pause if that's all that's ever agreed or achieved then you can go back if that's what you need to do militarily but the hostages don't have that time that discussion that we've had so he is putting that reasonable Centrist still defense minded view that some right-wing people hold as well some military people hold as well but it's not popular in in this cabinet not popular in this cabinet and the panel's been mentioning it that uh uh while the fighting in Gaza has marked a bit of a la the last couple of days for a round of polio vaccines for children in fact the UN Secretary General has said that if you can do it for vaccinating children why can't you have a proper truce uh it's been nearly a week of raid so far in the northern West Bank uh there was a 15-year-old Palestinian killed overnight in the city of uh tarem uh Shad bishar your thoughts on uh uh again is it just another sign that it is a forever war that we have on our hands seems like this but it's and the the vocals of the extremist fascist settler government that we are facing right now I mean the same policy that we are witnessing in Gaza is moving right now to the West Bank ER with the excuses the with like and with the I mean ER with no with no meaning or with no with no aim of what's happening there but it's actually to the ideology of resettle or reoccupation as well as the um just the settler ideology that actually ER leading leading the the area area right now and but uh right the only way the only way to stop this madness is with the with different government but also government that don't put put aside the the occupation but rather actually a finding a just solution for the occupation n barakov uh the the settlers that are part of that uh coal they know that if there is a snap election they become irrelevant so are we in an impossible situation no I they're not the ones obviously the is going to leave the government voluntarily but what Netanyahu has a majority of 64 in a 120 stronghold ceset the Israeli Parliament so you need five that have the conscience to put uh Humanity over their narrow personal political goals and I think that hopefully it won't be long before five defect of the opposition the call is the that the the from the public is that all of the people's all of the members of the Coalition have blood on their hands and therefore they should resign they're not going to resign but some may defect the opposition with a hope that they will eventually get reelected because they did the right thing and prioritize fin finally after 11 months and many deaths that could have been prevented that they will actually um uh defect that is the greatest hope that the public will um finally get to a minimum of five people that will bring down five members of the Coalition that could defect and bring down the government a final question I'll put it to Iris moer we're going to look at those live images from Tel Aviv uh where uh again for a third night there are a lot of people out in the streets um an unscientific headcount is the protest movement now as big as the one against the judicial overhaul yeah at different times you know there were we haven't seen these numbers since then Israelis were reluctant to come out against their government during a war but the turning point for the people I think has been the return of these six hostages uh killed within you know 48 hours before they were found and I think that's really hit home because there were spontaneous demonstrations on Sunday night so this is the third night is a turning the question is is a turning point for the people going to be a turning point for the politicians and I guess that's what we have to wait and see Iris M many thanks for being with us from Jerusalem Shad bishara in Tel Aviv Nomi barakov in London as well as khed El gindi in Washington thank you for being with us here in the France 2 thank you very much