UF Love & Justice with Maya Moore x Jonathan Irons

Urban Faith uh hello it's so good to be with you again uh it is always a joy and an honor to be able to speak with different uh people from their faith backgrounds and their Journeys uh and today we have two authors who are also just amazing individuals in their own rights uh we are here with Jonathan irons and Maya Moore irons to talk about their book love and Justice their incredible Journeys uh Jonathan in advocating for justice and Maya in joining in that justice fight after being a WNBA Superstar I'm so glad to have uh Jonathan and Maya with us today and thank you so much for being here with us glad to be here absolutely absolutely so uh the first question that I have is why uh did you all decide to write this book I I think that it's important to know a lot of people have never heard heard you all story uh I know that when I was hearing about it I was saying okay I think I've heard of Maya Mo I kind of know something about justice but had no idea of this incredible story of you going from being a WNBA Superstar to being a Justice Advocate and Jonathan going from being in the system yourself to advocating for others can you talk about uh your journey and why you decided to write this book um man man I I I just I I I could not just be quiet even though you know I wanted to I wanted to just you know go crawl under a rock CU I just got out of that crazy experience and thank God we were in Co so you know was a lot of people out to to mingle and and do that with because I just had to transition had PTSD and it's just hard for me to trust people um based on my experience but you know Maya when I first told her I was like I when I come home I I ain't trying to make new new friends he see baby you gonna make me friends you need to make me friends and I I I heard what she said and it was good I'm glad that I did that and I'm also glad that I had a chance to just share what happened to me because what happened to me it's bigger than just me um my experience is going to be used to break some things some generational curses it's going to be used to break some some uh some things in the criminal justice s that need to be fixed uh it's going to put some people on notice uh because I don't I don't I don't want nobody else to go through what I went through I just don't want that if there's any way that I can I can shed a lot shed a light on people that are vulnerable like I wanted to do that and so that's why I was so graphic in some of the things that I was talking about and just trying to do it in a clean way but just share like my trauma and at the same time I get the benefit because it's healing every time that I talk about my story I it helps me it's cathartic just speaking through it and just going over it and just sharing it because it loses its power every time I do that and there's so much that people can learn and be encouraged by my story and I realize that so how could I not write this story and my experience and share it with people that could potentially use it to just change life for other people and remove some of the veils that keep people being attacked and used and manipulated and dogged out and mistreated yeah yeah I mean this was a daunting task right we're we're we've just endured the the trauma of trying to exonerate an innocent person from prison and then we get married and we're trying to start our life in the middle of a pandemic like wow that's a movie right there just that right yeah yeah there's this whole other part of our life now that we're trying to we're trying to start and again it's just it's hard enough it's like going to the championship game hitting the buzzer beater getting you know the trophy and then it's like okay now you have to go do this tomorrow you know a whole other Championship run of building a life outside of on the other side of prison right but you're playing a different sport now you just won the basketball championship now go do this and playing football it's like wait we're not we don't know but that's what life was like it like okay now what do we do like none of us have ever experienced trying to heal from the trauma of the Criminal Justice System married in a pandemic and me also not playing basketball like so much let's write and let's write a book right it was crazy it was crazy time but we knew it was time like we needed to do this now while it was fresh while we didn't have you know a bunch of kids running around like we can focus on going back into that pain right going back into that story had a a really great um uh writer to help us craft it and and and and put huge two huge stories into something that flowed and so we had a team around us to us right that's a whole another episode of your team you need a team um but like Jonathan said part of being a Jesus follower is doing the hard hard work of looking of shining a light and looking at things that are broken yes right in order to bring healing you don't stay in the dark you don't stay looking at the broken but you have to look at it when you when you break your arm you can't just keep walking around you know just with your arm all Li and oh you gota you gota okay I have a broken arm the system of my body of how God created to function and Thrive the system is broken right the system has some things built in it that wants to heal itself but we also have to help that system get back right we got to set that bone we've got to help the inflammation we've got to rest right there are things in place that God has put in place in the system system of how we live together for flourishing and when we see things that are broken because we we have choices we're human beings and we've chosen over the history of humanity to break the system to not trust to dehumanize each other to be all about self and and when we see those things we have to do what we can with what God has put in our heart yes to make the system work as it was meant to work and that's that's flourishing for all and so part of our our call that we feel gets us out of bed is how do we bring that that Spirit to all that we have access to do and we have access to be authors right we have the power we've been empowered to be authors and now that power can go and help and Inspire and encourage and equip other people who want the systems of life to be flourishing um and so we took the time to do that and and in in that process we just got to remember all of the ways God has just been faithful and gotten us through and been with us in the hard hard hard stuff and the beauty that was able to still be seen in the midst of this nightmare um but yeah that's that's why we wanted to write that's I think it's so powerful to have you all lift up your faith and and lift up just the nightmares and the Brokenness of the system and one of the things I'm really curious for you all to talk about is can you talk a little bit about um the the Injustice and that context that kind of set up you all story and I just was caught beginning to read your the book and to read you all stories that uh Jonathan you you came from an unjust situation right like it was already set up for you to be incarcerated that's one of the things that um you know got highlighted in the book and Maya you you lived in a very different place and were able to see still the Injustice separate you know that that you didn't come up in but that was there and needed to be seen can you talk about uh just the how the context and the the uh environments that you are you all were in uh allowed you to see that Injustice in different ways um you know I mean it's it's not hard like kids that are going that that are struggling and and in poverty and and in situations that are just unfair and a disadvantage like I volunteered with kids down at this school called peace prep and like they are aware like they're very intelligent they are aware that like they they're not getting the same type of resources and and as other kids in other schools they are aware that their their city is riddled with with addicts and there's criminal activity that's going on like they're aware of these things and like they man that have as much as as another person and just all of the things they're aware of prison they're aware of police like they didn't just make it up they they think like police don't like them they don't care about them um and and I won't say that like that that they're making it up I there there's there's a lot of evidence that they've told me about um Me growing up in in my environment in my life like I had so many different examples of things that just showed me that like I wouldn't treat it like everybody else and it just felt like like people would were were being dismissive like I had I had a teacher put a air fresh under my desk like because I SM like smoke like a school teacher like my teacher didn't I had so much energy I was always up and down up and down up and down like Maya had a teacher that basically allowed her to stand around and use her energy and she turned into sports and and encouraged her like burn your energy off have fun be a kid like for me I didn't have that experience and I was aware of that I was was aware that I was treated different than other kids um uh I was aware that like I I went I went to a friend's house and they had a toilet I didn't have one I'm like man what is that it's like oh that's a toilet that's where we use the bathroom I'm used to a to a a five gallon bucket and bathing in a tin tub like I'm seeing these and then fast forward into prison like I'm I'm seeing uh like the racial inequality I'm like how how is it that we're the minority in here but there are more black people that are in prison uh than there are any other ways like I don't understand what's going on it and then I started to dig into it I started to look at statistics I started to read case law and treaties um I started to watch the news I started I started asking questions I started to let my curiosity just run wild and I got to really see like all the injustices that are happening happening around me it got so bad that I overcame my own fear and I started to advocate for other people I advocated for ice in prison because they stopped giving it to us for a long time file complaints about that and basically talk to the warden face to face and like explain like hey man this is a basic human writing here that the Supreme Court has already said that we need yet we are not getting that and there are a list of other things like you don't have to worry about giving all those other things that were missing just give us this like just fighting for basic things like most people in the in out in out in society like don't have to do it at that level but they're different degrees that are in society it's like if you if you have eyes to see you cannot miss it you cannot miss it and I didn't and so that's that's why I I kind of share some of the some of the things that that were happening in prison to me like things that I could testify to things that I could talk about and speak into yeah what about you yeah um I think um when we you know were born into the generation that we're born into um AA du had a a quote I think she was quoting someone else about our mindset about how we do this together and and and the illustration was you know you inherit this house so we're all living in this house and we look at the house and and there's there's there's mold over here there's some foundations that are just rotting away there's you know broken windows over here and we say we didn't break that window I'm not responsible for the mold over there but this is the house that we've been given and so it's our responsibility to fix it right as much as we can as best as we can this is the house that we've been given so it's still our responsibility as a family to repair the foundations to f fix the window to do the the the mold treatment I love that and it's a it's a beautiful illustration of like of of like we didn't break it so it's not our fault none of us you know we were born into this generation and we're inheriting a culture a world a land yeah so it is our job to do what we can while we're breathing to restore and repair the broken things of our house right as a community as a people as a nation as a world and so you know with with with those eyes that's kind of um how I see what's been happening in our story in my story I had people that modeled for me what it looks like to look at people right that's one of the themes of our story is we have to look at people as people first and for that's the fundamental skill you know like in basketball first thing you learn to do other than dribble you know shoot right everybody wants to shoot like if you can't shoot what are we doing in the game right so fundamental skill you have to be able to see people if we're going to have a chance at living as a human in this world yeah and so I got a chance to have that model for me of what it looks like to see but we need other people who' gone before to help us know like once we look at that rotten Foundation we get freaked out of like the house the foundation of the house it's it's it's broken like what do we do Dad Mom Grandma Grandpa like somebody ahead of us help me know how to respond to this and say Don't Panic baby I know this looks bad but we can fix this and then they teach us what we need to do over time to fix this and so that's what I've been the beneficiary of I've had people to show me like hey Maya this is some something we can do to help this system correct and then also just being in relationship ship right that's the majority of the work is us not being afraid to be in relationship with the people who have been stepped on if we had priv right I had a measure of privilege and I tried to use that to say hey I'm no better than you we're we're both humans you deserve to be treated like a human a basic human need I'm not talking about everybody should have privilege I'm just saying everybody should have basic Humanity right that's the starting and then your work ethic or gifts can kind of you know take you where it goes but basic human humanness cannot be a negotiable and so that's kind of where I came in of like I didn't know this was happening we need to do something um because we are we can do something with this house that we've been given I just I think that that's such a powerful analogy of thinking about inheriting the house and still having responsibility because I think a lot of people we we're just living in the house right and saying oh well you know I didn't break that so it's not my problem when in reality there's a shared responsibility and you lifted up your faith in regards to that and I know that's a really Central and Powerful part of both of you all Stories being Jesus followers like we're called to care for our neighbor to love our neighbors as ourselves can you all talk about how your faith has informed um your work and your advocacy and how you all are approaching what you're doing now can you talk about what how your faith has has motivated and played into that yeah uh as as you look into the Bible you won't find Superman in the Bible you won't find Batman you won't find like people that are just Flawless uh outside of Jesus like everybody Moses Moses was a murderer uh you could just pick any character in The Bible any person in the Bible and see something yeah and what that does is like it lets you know like like you are not alone in your flaws and your weaknesses and what that does it call us to to remember when we see other people that are struggling that are going through things it caes us to look on them like hey like I have my weaknesses like we all need to have compassion on each other we all need to help each other it calls us to remember those people that are less fortunate than we are and as well as people that are fortunate as well like we have to we have to look out for each other God says remember the The Prisoner as you are in prison remember the hungry remember the orphan remember the a so that means we are supposed to care about these people as if we were in those situations we will we want we we we are supposed to want them to have the same things that we would want we have to put ourselves in their shoes and we have to remember them we have to remember the vulnerable like we're not called to just pay attention to our to to the people that are doing right and uh and got all the stuff that's going right in the world because that's that's not happening everybody's got something going on whether they want to admitted or not whether it's in the Forefront or not we all Wrestle with things and like we are called to just lean into each other and be a part of the community and show up for each other and and be present and speak out against Injustice and things that are happening in this world like and and and me reading through the faith and seeing that playing that out like that is that is that is that to me that's God talking to me through this word and through other people through my environment these are the things I want you to focus on these are the things that matter to me like I'm not asking you to pay attention to like the richest people in the world or or or how they do things I'm asking you to treat each other like you want to be treated I'm asking you to remember those people and care for those people where you can that are disadvantaged yeah Matthew 25 right is you did for the least of these you did it to me Maya can you talk about how does your faith how's it played into this work because it's a huge step going from where you were to where you are now and and focused on caring for the least of these and and Seeking Justice I was one of the least of these yeah um man Understanding God's story right God has God has given us a story um and he says there there's a there's a competing story though there's the the story of the world right you know we talk about the World the Flesh of devil it's like what does that mean um the world is a it's a it's a way of seeing that is contrary to the kingdom of God and so if you look back in the Old Testament there's just some very Vivid um pictures of um really the Egyptian Empire you know in um you're you're you're reading in you know in Exodus and um you're you're you're seeing even it's it's a motif throughout the Old Testament but just the the Egypt representing like the Empire mindset where there was a pharaoh that came into power and had forgotten Joseph and and and ended up being threatened by the prosperity of God's people of the Hebrews he enslaves them he he he approaches the situation out of fear self-preservation insecurity wanting to protect my wealth comfort and luxury and so I'm going to take these people and use them dehumanize them make them slaves to maintain my comfort my power my privilege my whatever I want and so that is a that is a model as a way of of of organizing of systemizing a a a community that at the heart of it is the opposite of God's kingdom which is about trust which is about security which is about abundance which is about selflessness which is about humanizing and including and valuing and benefiting and giving for all Shalom right everything in right relationship to each other that's God's Kingdom so every day we have a choice to make are we going to believe God's story which is the real story or are we going to believe this world story this Empire story and so we we wrestle with that every day of what story are we going to show is real in our choices and what we believe and how we move and how we act and I think we we just unfortunately see some of these systems that have been set up in our in our house right in our culture that are so empired and just Crush people and dehumanize and devalue and use and manipulate and coer all based off of I want to preserve mine because when you when you look into the dark stuff when you look into systems of poverty or Injustice it's going to require you to give something up if you have been the beneficiary of that broken system right if you are the top of the Empire food chain and you look into the bottom you're going to have to do something if if you're you know you have a human heart in you that that that sees that that's wrong right and so part of my basketball Journey was I'm so fortunate to have been able to feel like I've been walking with the Lord since around Middle School where my faith became my own before my name became a name and so I navigated my basketball experience with an awareness of like my identity is I'm a I'm God's daughter and my purpose is not building my name becoming the best at making the most money like all these things that I was able to actually be a part of in some way but that that wasn't what got me up out of bed and so when the when the time came where God was like really make bringing clear to my heart the shift that I needed to make out of that Sport and entertainment Rhythm into a different Rhythm that was unknown like I didn't know what it was going to look like when I stepped away from the game in 2019 but I knew it was leading me towards doing more in this Kingdom story that I was learning more about um which which required me to give some stuff up some of my comfort some of my um status or whatever you want to call it um in order to be the the hands and feet of Jesus and show up and do the hard things and get educated humble myself learn from people so when I was able to speak and use my platform I could be helpful and accurate in and in trying to encourage and equip people and so yeah my faith is it's about seeing God's kingdom as clearly and as rightly as I can and then being able to live my life in a way that makes that Kingdom a reality as much as I can every day um which again is going to probably mean some self-sacrifice right love cost that's what Jesus did right following Jesus foll Jesus sacrificed a lot for love and restoration and Redemption but yeah he did it for the joy that was set before you know for the joy looking ahead to that future Joy you know the future Joy right like all the stuff we've been through but it's like look at us now and look where we're continuing to go to like our life just I think models that example of when you do the work of the Kingdom like there is a future Joy like hang on hang in um we might not see the full benefit of what our lives are going to do but we we're tasting it now in bits until that fullness comes into play um but it is just yeah it's the Cent it's the center of all that we do oh well I know I'm going to run out of time on Zoom so I just want to thank you all uh for sharing from your story and your hearts and your passion and your faith uh and I do think that your example is an example that so many people need that Jonathan your story is unfortunately not unique enough that there are so many people uh who are subject to this criminal justice system that the statistics are pointing to that but that you offer hope that there is something in the midst of it to be gained and that there are is a fight to be fought and Maya your story is more unique but that folks who have seen it and have not been touched by it in the same way can do something about it and and and you gave up something you gave up a lot can I just say especially as now we're seeing the WNBA rise in new ways and people have new attention around it like it just happened yesterday even though it's been around for years and years uh that there's more to life than that kind of success uh in living out our faith can can mean a lot for us so I just thank you both so much uh any last uh couple of words for young folks who are out there one say man you can't make this type of story up you can't do that and I'll say this like in your darkest moments like don't forget that God loves you and God got your back all you got to do man see relationship with him I promise you you won't regret it I promise you man you mind any parting words um I would I would just say when you get discouraged because this is it can be it's just it's part of it right if you if you look into the dark it's discouraging but don't stay there like there there is something there are people there are things in motion that are happening that you can plug into I'd say get plugged in to something because we can't just look at the dark things by ourselves in a in a room right like we if we're going to look at hard stuff like you got to lock arms and be like all right we're GNA look at this together and we're gonna do something together so my encouragement is always get plugged in to something already happening and stuff will happen out of that yes um to keep you encouraged and to keep you moving forward and you know like you said like the the black church has modeled that in just resilient ways for C centuries right like it's it's not just it's not a new thing right like it's it's there's a legacy there so learn plug into those Elders like there are people who have there's jewels that are still alive that we can have conversations with that glean from and like let us continue to to to lift up our our people who have gone before and make sure they're appreciated and uh and that we're receiving what they can pour out you know because that's that's those are team members that need to be honored and and uh they still have something to offer us so keep learning get plugged in and keep learning amen well again thank you all so much for the time and for sharing with Urban faith and uh I I look forward to more people hearing and reading this story love and Justice is available to get it read it share it do Bible studies and group studies around it because we can make a difference and you guys share some of the ways that we can do that so thank you again thank you so much you too man good to meet you absolutely