View from the Bridge - General Gwyn Jenkins CB OBE ADC

hello I'm Steven Watson welcome to another edition of A View From The Bridge hosted on behalf of the royal Navy and raw Marines charity we're also welcoming members of the naval review for the first time delighted to have you with us we're back here in uh the ctm studio for another of these fireside chats with leaders of the royal Navy and Royal Marines it's a chance for us to connect you as members of The Wider Naval family with the military leaders taking the key decisions on our defense and security and to gain their insights on the challenges and opportunities facing the service as well as an update on current operations uh the format is simple you know how it works I'm going to put some questions get the ball rolling and then please send in your questions VI the chat function on the zoom link and you can start doing that straight away now today we have a very special guest someone I have been pursuing uh for a while he's a four-star general a former military adviser to the Prime Minister the current Vice chief of Defense staff and commandant General raw marines that makes him quite a good catch General Gwyn Jenkins thank you for being here I know things are super busy at the moment vcds and CGM how' you fit it all in that's a big joke um first of all it's a pleasure to be here thank you for inviting me um I finally gave in to your request to turn up but I recognize uh that particularly with the audience we got today that this is a good opportunity to both see what's interesting them in terms of the questions they're going to offer uh and also get across some of my messages um the short answer to your question is it's not easy uh combining those two roles was a decision we took several years ago uh when when I was actually assistant chief in the naval staff and we were trying to lean the Navy command structure in order to make it more effective one of the consequences of that that I could not foresee at the time was that I would end up being CGM um by uh disbanding the commant general role from its executive function within the naval staff we decided that the the raw Marines of course still needed a c monal head and someone to look after the wider core interests and that that should reside with the senior serving Ro Marine officer fast forward a few years and I find that to be myself so you've made that bed you have to lie on it now that I absolutely cannot Grumble to anyone legitimately for the uh the very lucky situation that I find myself in in Truth uh I can only do both roles because of the excellent support I get from the staff around me so the raw Marines are fantastic as a community and organization of course and then I have no shortage of people who will tell me if I am not fulfilling my duties as commod general but also support me in the day-to-day function of the role and then on the vice Chief St side of course I have an excellent staff who helped me run the vice Chief office uh as as efficiently as we possibly can and then lastly it's the relationships that really help so I have a very strong professional relationship with the first Sea Lord Ben key and with his immediate deputies in Martin Connell and Andy Burns and it's the relationship between each of us that help make sure that we maintain the interests of the core but also allow me to retain capacity for my key role as Vice chief of the defense staff right so all joined up at the top of the shop um but you're a rawal Marine through and through and this weekend actually quite an important anniversary I think the 359th birthday which means next year is going to be a presumably a very big celebration a really big one um so formed in 1664 fast forward to today I mean what what is what is what are the role Marines for and how is this role evolving so we remain an integral part of the royal Navy one of the interesting pieces uh of the uh change to the comant general role and effectively the disbandment of the staff who used to support the two star comant uh General within the Navy is that the the naval service the Royal Navy with its Royal Marines has become even closer together so as I look in now to the Royal Navy increasingly the role of the raw Marines is so interwoven with with our own Service uh that we become a unique and vital asset uh to the Navy even more than we were before but if you look around the world right now we have over a thousand raw Marines either actually deployed on operations or in extremely high Readiness both in support direct support of the royal Navy or assure fulfilling defense tasks wherever they may be that kind of output from an organization that is only just over 6,000 uh people is phenomenal I think if we want to talk about value for money for the country you don't need to look any further than the raw Marines the role they provide and what they fulfill every day for the country I don't know if you know but we last year uh developed a new purpose for UK defense we protect the nation and help it Prosper the Royal Marines provide a vital role role in both the those aspects of our defense purpose we protect the nation right at the tip of the spear whether it's in Special Forces or whether it's guarding the nuclear deterrent as we have done continuously for 50 years or whether it's in the band service pursuing our prosperity around the world as you yourself have seen firsthand on board uh our carriers uh I I think well I can Testify the Atlantic future forum I mean the RW Marine band service is is convening power itself isn't it isn't it exactly exactly but but at 6,000 strong um I mean first is that a number that you can sustain um I mean there are always questions just about how far the budgets go and and given the ambition I mean is that is that asking too much of the core to deliver that number of outputs from that small group there's always a challenge the great thing about the raw Marines is you will never hear a raw Marine say that they don't want to deploy on operations uh they are as thirsty and hungry for uh supporting this nation around the world as they always have been I see no dimunition in that desire or ambition across the core of course we monitor very closely the support that we have from both the serving raw Marines and The Wider CORE family because I'm very fond of saying when I stand up and talk to Raw Marines and talk about raw marines that behind every raw Marine there is a whole support network that enables them to do their job for the country often at considerable sacrifice so we're constantly taking the temperature of our people and our community to make sure that we're not pushing people too hard but it's a fine judgment and as raw Marine Commandos we are very want to push ourselves hard part of the leadership judge judgement that I exercise and that the officers and ncos around the raw Marines exercise is to know when we should take a knee when should we take a pause as we would say in the Raw Marines when is too much uh going on that we're beginning to suffer as an organization and I'm confident that we've got that temperature right now of course like everyone else across the Armed Forces at this moment recruiting and retention is at the Forefront of minds and we are having our own difficulties in that regard I have to say the raw Marines is much better off than most of the rest of the services as I look across the board and in fact raw Marine officers in particular are one of the few cohorts at the moment that are 100% recruited uh within defense so we have some good news stories to sell so you're do doing something right help help me out here in understanding the importance of of command so I mean there's a lot of talk about the UK Commando force uh quite a bit of investment and treasure is going into into creating that um but that's not just ra Marines is it I mean you are creating a capability around UK Commander Force that's something a little bit different Commander force is a is a whole Force effort you know when I was commander three Commando Brigade um some six or seven years ago um we ran endless Rock drals and tests and exercises uh in pursuit of our core War fighting role which was to be able to put a landing Force across the beach and sustain it for operations you know the really interesting Illumination in that time for us was that the old style method of producing a landing Force did not work it did not work against the current threat and it wasn't protected to work against the future threat so we had to do something so we exercised the Commando mindset we sought to be the first to understand the first to adapt and the first to overcome and we sought to do that by remolding the way that the raw Marines and the Commandos operated and to do that I went back to the history books we looked at how the Commandos were created in the second world war we sought to understand how a country with its back against the wall seeking to take the offensive Spirit against an overwhelming oppon managed to operate and it became the template for the Commando Force we're creating now how do small bands of determined men and women seek to prosecute operations against numerically Superior forces using the best that technology has available and relying on the in innate intelligence and determination and skill that we have in abundance within the raw Marines and the commander Force but we can't do it alone we absolutely need the Navy the Air Force and the army with us to create a whole force that can prosecute a modern Commando Concept in the most difficult circumstances reassure me that this isn't just a sort of badging exercise I mean we've heard about you know Rangers um you know it raises a few eyebrows some of uh some of the terminology that comes from depends MH but but the new UK Commando Force I mean that is something that is now stood up and essentially it is it's very different it's giving defense another set of options that's absolutely right we're we're funded we're on track uh we're delivering against the in some cases in expect in excess of the expectation that we set we've changed the way we do our training at Commando Training Center lyston we're changing the way we do our exercises we've we're fundamentally overhauling a raw Marine and Commando culture that's been pretty static for 30 or 40 years and I mean that there's no disrespect to our predecessors they were absolutely fit for their for the time and what was asked of them but we've had to change the force we've had to adapt to the growth and technological change that we find ourselves in the midst of and the commander Force is is delivering that now for real so right now in the Mediterranean you have a literal Response Group South based around a Commando company that is responding to the deteriorating security situation that we find ourselves witnessed to um now you talk talk about lyston command Training Center uh and you mentioned men and women uh I know there's an ambition that there will be female raw Marines and and a number of very talented female raw raw marines that started to go through the process but the reality is you're not able to train them and have them pass out given some of the really grueling benchmarks that you set for raw Marines and you're not willing to to change that training program and the standards that are set in it so something's going to give here I mean there aren't going to be any female Ro Marines in numbers that mean anything unless you rethink that Stephen I welcome the challenge uh it is it is a challenging environment we are utterly committed to making sure that there are opportunities for women who wish to be Commandos to come forward and be trained right now we have some seven uh women Commandos who have passed the all arms Commando course so it's definitely within physical capacity to pass the Commando tests for the female physique but you've been doing this for a number number of years and there's seven out of 6,000 absolutely yes absolutely and we have yet to pass uh a woman raw Marine through raw Marine recruit or officer training we've had several uh begin we've had none succeed so far what we are really clear about is that this is not about standards I think people hide behind standards as an excuse to avoid change there is no lack of willingness to change with within the raw Marines and within the Commando Force right now what we have to make absolutely sure is that the tests that we provide to qualify to become commanders are appropriate for the operational environment in which we find ourselves so we are constantly reviewing the Commando course to make sure that it is matchfit for what we would expect our Commandos to follow right now we have some 10% of the staff at Commando Training Center are women uh and they are there in part to provide uh different perspectives to the Commando training teams but also to make sure that we have the network and the framework and the expertise there so that when women do come forward we can give them the best possible appropriate standardized support so that they are at no disadvantage uh as they begin as they begin their training and whether that's in clothing or nutrition or the adaptation of the physical training regime to make sure that we're giving them the best opportunity we can we we are all committed to that but I think there's a reality I think there is a reality that these are extremely grueling physical tests that put a lot of strain on me men and women's uh muscular skeletal uh physique um and there is no getting away from that so uh you invited me down to lyston recently um um uh you invited me to attempt some of the assault course I'm I'm you know I'm Wiser than even even do that but but it was interesting that you know as as you think about the future skills that you're going to need huge focus on technology and Tech and you need you know you need people in the Raw Marines with very bright Minds who have an aptitude for for cyber and some of the other things that you're doing yeah they don't necessarily have the physicality to do a 30 mile um and some of the very traditional benchmarks that you set I mean are are you in danger of actually losing a talent pool because you just have to carry that big sack and you've got to be able to get across that course in a particular time I think there were two responses to that question the first is of course you don't need to be a Commando to serve with the command Comm Force so we have plenty of uh specialist staff uh I could point to the medical Branch but also signals and Technical uh support as well um who do provide us with some of that deep specialization that you talk about there but the second is don't underestimate the quality and caliber of the raw Marine Commandos themselves so some 60% of raw Marine C recruits are qualified to be and could be officers if they wished uh some 20% of them have got University degrees those that's ju that is in the Marines in the ranks it's a phenomenal Testament to the caliber of people who we attract forward would I wish more diversity of thought and approach of course of course I would diverse teams make High Caliber High performing teams so we have to be imaginative about how we create that high performance and how we bring that diversity into the force even if uh we don't necessarily badge them as Commandos but I come back to the fundamental role of the Commando Force which is to operate in small teams up threat Behind Enemy Lines if if required self- sustaining for long periods of time with the mental and physical resilience to survive in the most difficult environments in the most high threat environments we cannot compromise on that kind of caliber of capability because it would be a disservice to our people okay I get it I'm never going to be a role Marine um thank you your questions are starting to come through I'm going to do my best to to pass them over to to the general um I mean we talked moment ago about recruitment uh got a question here from Robert streer I mean how do you view the cadet organizations and and the RM Cadet detachments in the SEC is that a recruitment opportunity um is this a way of embedding the ethos of the raw Marines with young people so we don't recruit directly from the cadets and I'm sure the parents wouldn't want us to do that but it absolutely instills the raw Marines ethos within a within a a Young Generation some of whom come on to be raw Marines subsequently and the statistics for those that do is very strong they tend to stay longer they rise to higher rank they often demonstrate more commitment because of their early exposure to what it is to be a raw marine and as a former Cadet although I have to add not a raw Marine Cadet that opportunity wasn't available to me when I was growing up as a as a former cette I can testify that it absolutely opened my eyes to what was possible within the military and instilled in me a determination to do the best that I could within the milit as in when I went on to join now one of the things that other raw Marines do is is provide uh many who go on to form part of UK Special Forces and I think the percentage of raw Marines in the UK Special Forces is is really high um I know SF is something one generally never talks about but it is something the UK is very proud of what what is the relationship then between the raw Marine the core and SF and and and are they learning from each other as has FF SF got anything to learn from the raw Marines it it absolutely has and they are learning from each other as well increasingly on the way that the modern modern battle spaces run the Special Operations capable forces such as the raw Marine Commandos and special forces such as the SAS and the SP SPS for instance are increasingly working close together they provide distinct and unique roles in their own rights but there is obviously overlap uh in their capabilities uh and in some of their approaches and if we weren't learning from each other I would be concerned um I think as you say there is a high percentage of raw Marines within Special Forces and as a result that provides a natural link for Di for dialogue conversation and learning lessons I I must just ask you what while I have you here I mean there is uh an inquiry into Special Forces conduct in Afghanistan I appreciate General you can't talk about any of the detail of that but is that the fact that that inquiry is happening is that something you welcome and and will the output of that be taken seriously we absolutely welcome the inquiry the government uh um instigated the independent judicial inquiry and we will support it 100% um absolutely committed to it yes and act on the findings of course we will yeah thank you um right we have we have some questions one from uh Lance Bachelor who I happen to know is on the Navy Board so maybe he knows something that you you you don't uh but he says you're uniquely placed to change the center in defense which is often seen as a bit bureaucratic slow moving expensive um it's all in that building over there just over over our shoulder what what's the chance of that happening on your watch I'm determined to try and change defense for the better I think I was recruited into this role because of my reputation and perspective on organizational change so um I it is my uh driving mandate I think in my time as Vice Chief to try and improve prove defense for the better and fundamentally that means bringing new ways of working into what is to be honest quite a conservative very bureaucratic organization there are many fine attributes to defense there are some outstanding people including in that building that you point to just across the road um but I think many of us feel hamstrung by the organization that we're part of that's a very familiar organizational challenge for any large uh traditional bureaucratic uh organization that gives me confidence that there are techniques and approaches that we can bring to bear that will help improve everyone's lot in defense I'm often want to say that our defense purpose protect the nation and help it Prosper there is there is no finer purpose across any government Department Department we should every day be skipping to work in fulfillment of the opportunity to help protect this country the fact that it does not feel like that for some of our people is something we've got to change this is our organization if we want it to be high performing if we want to deliver the best we can for our country then it's our choice now of course it isn't that easy big organizations are not straightforward to change I cannot emphatically sit here and tell you that by the end of my tenure as Vice Chief we will have managed to change defense to monster B for the better but I'm going to give it a damn good go and do do you feel it needs to be changed from the inside out so I mean this responsibility largely sits with the uniformed leadership and and Community or is this something that you know our Pol our politicians need to mandate and direct it's a team effort and it's not just the military personality either my civil servant colleagues are 100% committed to needing to improve defense they recognize that there are things that could be better and they recognize that we could be more efficient and effective in the way that we work uh and so I think it needs politicians uniform military and Civil Service all to work together in order to deliver the kind of change we want but on on the I mean there's a huge amount in your Inay we just talked about how busy you were at the beginning but you know when you and and chief of Defense staff Admiral Rakin sit down and think about what you're just describing I mean is this at the top of your action this day list or in the end is this just such a big mountain to try and shift that you know you resign yourselves to the reality of of of The Blob 100% at the top I am not a resigning myself type of person never have been uh this is first and foremost in whatever I discuss uh in almost any meeting in defense um more questions coming in uh a question from James spru about uh world events and about Ukraine um I think we've just marked 600 days of of the war in Ukraine what what are we what are we learning from this I mean what lessons do we draw from that experience I mean we've been training a lot of ukrainians but as everybody says in even now maybe or setly in a couple years time they'll be training us because they're gaining the this experience but we do appear to be at a stalemate I mean the summer offensive has sort of peted out you know the Winter's going to be difficult um from your Vantage Point how's this going to play out so I would be super wary of anybody who sits here and confidently gives you a prediction for how this plays out they W chair generals there are too many variables at play to be confident in any of the possible Futures that appear I can speak from firsthand experience of the determination of the ukrainians um and I have so much respect for both the nation and the and their forces for what they are doing of course we as raw Marines have played our part in training Ukrainian Marines who are right now in action in uh eastern Ukraine I think when I look at the lessons uh there are there are many lessons and almost to a point who whoever you talk to wherever their perspective they'll offer you a diff different list of lessons so I'll just focus on two very macro lessons from Ukraine that that we are taking into heart uh within defense the first is that if you start a fight you better be able to sustain that fight the level of uh sustainment and support that is required on what is self-evidently a modern batt Battlefield in Ukraine is phenomenal and and I think if we're honest with ourselves post Cold War we have not paid serious enough attention in the west to the need to ensure that we can sustain our forces for a prolonged dur duration if we should ever find ourselves in need of uh to fight the second uh key lesson is if you begin a fight it's then the side that adapts the fastest that gains the advantage and what we saw particularly in the early stages was a willingness in Ukraine to adapt the way they fought uh to to gain advantage over their Russian counterparts and in fact I would contend right now it's still the same the side that is learning the fastest the side that is adapting the quickest is the ukrainians and if I were to offer any prediction for the future it's that as long as we can continue sustaining the Ukrainian force their thirst for adaptation and development we'll we'll see them in some capacity to be victorious over their Russian Invaders we're getting a number of of related questions really around technology uh including uh On's just come in from Marshall Andy Turner uh forly of your Parish um you know what is defense doing to access and adopt Technologies you know faster than our adversaries so you know we're picking up you know the winners will be those that read it understand it adopt it and change but technology is such a big component in this now I mean there is a there's a tech arms race yes has the UK got what it takes to win that the UK definitely has what it takes to to win that we are innovators by Nature I think one of the the great strengths of the UK military is its willingness to experiment and adapt and and was ever thus in our history if we go back to the second world war or the first world war the invention of the tank the adaptation of the Commando force in the second world war you could go on and on that is still alive and well in our forces today but this does circle around to what I was talking about in terms of adapt adaptation and change of Defense because I think the answer here is not the Innovative spirit that comes up with the Adaptive techniques or technology to overcome a particular problem the challenge for us is how do we scale that problem rapidly across the whole of Defense in order to make it a genuine battle w Battle winning capability and the answer to that is we have to speed up our bureaucracy we have to make our decision- making faster and is part of that the relation ship that you have with the w with the defense industrial sector I mean we've got a question here from Christopher Samuel you know shouldn't that relationship be a bit more agile a bit closer I mean sometimes you can appear very distant in that building over there I think there is in certain Pockets within defense there are some very close relationships with industry and if I look at what UK industry has done to support our Ukrainian Partners right now in the fight it gives me confidence that there is a route to success with this I think the challenge for us is making the um interface between defense and UK industry as proactive and easy to navigate as possible and sometimes we don't help ourselves I'll admit that um sometimes of course uh we find that industry overstates their ability to solve problems for us and it's only through a close working relationship iterate the solutions together develop the solutions together that we really get to uh the success of the keeping up with the pace of technological change which is as we'd all agree phenomenal um so money is part of this too I mean we have a very stretched operational environment got a question from Daniel Allen uh who I think is actually joining us from New York so we we have a very International audience here tonight um I mean there isn't a uniformed officer that would sit in that chair that doesn't want 2.5% of of GDP and and you've got a big shopping list of things that that you want how do you go about making these really difficult choices um unenviable positions where given where you're sitting to have to make some of that it's really challenging and not least because you're often comparing apples and pears or even worse than that apples and wheelbarrows how do you draw the comparisons between different environments and different technology to make sensible decisions about how we balance the force for the UK but I have to I have to take issue with something you said there I am an officer that will sit here and say actually I think we've got enough money I think 53 billion pounds that this country spends on defense is enough I think how we choose to spend that money how we apply it for best effect to protect this nation and help it Prosper I think that's the challenge that we need to bring to bear the problem with defense is there is never enough money people will always ask for more we're fundamentally an additive organization our solution to everything is spend more money have more kit have more people I'm not sure that is the solution in the technological age at all I think the solution is be cleverer in how you spend your money be wiser in how you apply apply your force be more intelligent in how you set your requirements for the future that that is fundamentally the challenge that we have that we're wrestling with right now now I can't sit here and offer you the perfect template for just how we do that but I do contend that it is somewhat of a tired and lazy response to say I just need more money if you give me another half a billion if you give me another five billion you give me another half a percent I'll solve all the problems of UK defense experience suggests that is not true all right well breaking news um but you you have a very compelling narrative around um you know being smarter being more agile making the right choices make I mean some of the the the when I visited three Commando brigades some of the tech that you're buying it's not prohibitively expensive it's just clever it needs to be thought through yeah but there are other Legacy capabilities um amphibius you know recapitalizing you know the shipping yeah I mean should you just say look actually we're not going to do that anymore because these are Big Numbers big big numbers for that some some things just cost that that's the bottom line is it's 50 plus billion pounds it's not a cheap business by uh anyone's measure I think where the balance of the investment fall on the capabilities that you really need as a nation I think that's where the that's where the choice lies and it comes back to what we were talking about which was that's where the partnership between politician uniform military and Civil Service really really comes to the for we all have our perspectives we all have our views on the best way to protect this country they need to be brought together for sensible choices that enable us to get the best compromise that we can and I think that's the process that we went through earlier this year with the integrated review refresh and with the Defense command um paper refresh all of which was designed to begin making some serious adjustments to the way that we um prepare our Force look after our people and set ourselves up for the future now I've got a couple of questions coming in about orcus uh and an orcus is quite complicated because there's a pillar one and and and a pillar two no doubt there'll be many experts out there who who will pick pick me up on some of the vocabulary but essentially from the UK's standpoint I mean firstly is orcus on track um and what what what do you think is the Legacy for the UK in this this trilateral relationship uh so orcus is on track but it's early days isn't it um I think uh it's a phenomenal undertaking particularly for the Australians to gener gener at a nuclear powerered submarine capability from scratch uh is uh demonstrates impressive ambition um and it's going to take all three Partners to really pull together in order to be able to deliver it I think for the UK um it is a phenomenal strategic uh commitment to both our own nuclear industry but also to um helping a key Ally in a key region in the world um in Australia and I talk regularly with my colleagues in Australia and the us about how we um help the uh both industrial base but also the military prepare now for the introduction of the I mean not only is this a huge industrial Endeavor for Australia but but the implications for the UK and the investments in Barrow and you know creating an orcus submarine which will you know be part of of of the UK Fleet as well as the Australian I mean those are those are big complicated you know generational step changes AR they yeah and and as part of my preparation um in my own modest support for the um orcus uh initiative I reread Peter Hennessy's ex excellent book about the creation of our own nuclear capability in the 1950s and 60s if you want even an inclination of the scale of what we're undertaking here then I thoroughly recommend going back to that book and reading about the journey that we were on supported and working with the US U Back in the 50s and 60s obviously technology is Advanced obviously we're in a different place now to where we were then but it is a good insight into the level of cooperation and interaction that's needed to be able to deliver this I mean I think one of one of the observations that Peter has made and I know is front of mind for the Australians is I mean this is a long-term journey and we're going to need you know the students and the Specialists and the engineers coming through education systems embracing stem subjects you know to to to actually have the ability to deliver on this ambition yes um that isn't automatic um and I again I don't know is there a relationship that defense should have with the education sector and the university sector that that that maybe you know happened once upon a time but you know isn't evident today so it it is a whole of government effort uh to deliver the orcus ambition absolutely and we already are working with um our education colleagues and and our uh infrastructure colleagues because investment needs to go into domestic infrastructure in Barrow as much it does into the industrial uh in infrastructure this is going to take a whole of government effort if we are to deliver it and sustain our place as world leaders in this this type of military and civil nuclear capability um lot of questions coming through um I'm going to do my best to get through them but but please keep typing them in uh I've got one here from Pete sanderman uh Pete runs an excellent uh Navy Lookout uh website um which is is a primary source of information for many of us from time to time does the command force really want the Navy to have big amphibious Platforms in the future so is mrss a priority for funding it absolutely needs to be so the Commando force does need amphibious shiing look into the future does it need the landing platform docks that we have at the moment in uh HMS albian and bulwar almost certainly not uh I think the the role of amphibio is changing as the Commando force is changing so how we disperse a survivable force to operate in a high threat environment and establish a foothold on uh an opposed Shore that technique that skill set that technological solution is definitely changing so I would be very surprised if mrss looks like our current very large uh Landing platform docks um that design phase is underway the concept phase is underway for uh the mrss it'll be interesting to see what the solutions actually um appear um and I'm talking regularly with my Dutch counterparts who of course have a very similar requirement in a very similar time frame so um I think it's going to be fascinating I think it's the next big evolution in you may cooperate with we absolutely May cooperate I think UK andl Landing forces is over 50 years old now I think it's a relationship we care greatly for and continue to nurture and if there is a potential to establish common platforms between our two Nations I'm sure we will embrace it but in the meantime bullwark and albian you you you keep them going I mean I think they they go as long as they serve their purpose I think uh as the well as the fleet requirements change as the commander Force requirements change we will we will adapt the Commando force is not personified by The Landing platform docks uh they do provide a really useful function for uh the Royal Navy as a whole um with the embarked Royal Marines but I can see the requirement is changing before my eyes so if I could make if I could wave a magic wand right now and replace the L platform docs for something else I probably would okay thank you um question from Mike beirle who amongst other things I I know is the editor of the naval review um he says that the the proud R Marine ethos has come over loud and clear and the things that you you've said this evening but would you like to see a stronger expression of ethos in the Royal Navy um I think the Royal Navy um purpose of being Global modern and ready which we um invented when I was assistant chief in the Navy does give a Guiding Light for uh the the whole of the royal Navy um I think one of the great things as I said of the change to the common General's office and my role is it has forced um in a really positive way the Navy and the Marines to work much closer together the if I'm if I'm honest I think the office of the commod general in the past um served at some stages as a bit of a bull walk between the Navy and the Marines it allowed the Marines to hide underneath the comat General's office and it allowed the Navy to offload some responsibility for the Marines to the office of the commant general I think the change that we've seen to the RO has enabled the Roy Marines and the Royal Navy to work closer together out of necessity it's a very very positive change I think one of the positive aspects of that is it is bringing some of the raw Marine approach into the Royal Navy it is helping the Royal Navy understand some of the war fighting ethos that exists within the raw Marine Commandos just as I think the Royal Navy perspective on the global Enterprise that is the Royal Navy is helping helping to broaden the perspective and approach of the raw Marines it's mutually beneficial to both uh I think I'm right in saying that when you were Chief you did entertain the idea that maybe there should be shared ranks between carefully saying that on camera Ste get I'll get in Marines and I I'm I'm presuming that's a b a dead and buried idea yes uh well at the moment it's not a current idea uh I have a personal theory that I think think if the integration of the royal Navy and the Royal Marines continues then rank alignment at some stage should not be taken off the table um I'm super proud of being part of the royal Navy and a royal Marine I think the the Adaptive Spirit of the raw Marines um would lead us to wear whatever uniform and whatever rank is appropriate for the role that we find ourselves in we we are very proud of our 359 year old history we are very proud of the Giants on Whose shoulders we stand as Commandos and raw Marines today but none of us are so proud as to not change at the at the speed and Pace that we need to in order to make sure that the raw Marines was stay relevant and stay as a vital part of the royal Navy understand now um tonight's conversation uh we're doing this on behalf of the royal Navy Ro Marines charity um very close relationship with with the um what is the importance of the charity to the serving Community it's hard to understate I'm I'm fond of saying that every serviceman every raw Marine has this community around them that supports what they do the support of that Community I think can too often be overlooked uh I often stand up and speak at charity events where we are appealing for resource and funds to support uh the Charities and I'm often asked why why doesn't the government provide all this resource why doesn't um why do you need our help and I try and express it in terms that resonate so I say we fundamentally don't want people's sympathy we we are proud Ro Marines we serve willingly many of us have marched to the sound of the guns and would do so in a heartbeat again that's what we do as professionals we don't want sympathy for that action what we want is empathy we want people to understand that we make significant sacrifices for this country that we and our families make significant sacrifices for this country and if there is a way of just easing some of the burden that we all bear willingly for our country if there is a way of just providing that little bit more support that helps people understand that what they doing is appreciated that people have some empathy for who they are and what they do then that that that is a fantastic outcome for us and if the charity can just provide that bit of extra support can just provide that wrap that sometimes we can't uh in our own right through the government then I can only applaud you for your for your efforts well I mean thank you for that you know very powerful endorsement of of what the charity does I mean I've uh I served for a few years as a trustee I'm now one of the vice presidents and uh uh the rrmc is is hugely important and it does its job I think incredibly well uh and I would say to anyone out there watching I mean if you know there's always scope to do a bit more this isn't this isn't an appeal this evening but I mean if you feel moved to uh to get involved and and support the charity then than one should do um I mean as as we draw this to begin to draw this to a close I mean I I reading your CV in advance of this evening um I mean you've had an amazingly varied uh career I mean from from lyston to Downing Street I mean you were David Cameron's military adviser for for a number of years and now you sit at at the top of Defense I mean as as as you look back and I know you're not done yet you know your best years are still ahead of you but as you look back what what do you what do you draw from that and I mean if uh if you could be your to offer some advice to your younger self turning up at Limon for the first time with what you know now the benefit of hindsight what what advice would you give young Gwyn Jenkins gosh um I I mean first of all I would say uh I would say to him that he should enjoy it um I've had a phenomenal career I am so lucky with where my career has gone you know know I only joined for 5 years that was my plan I was going to straight from school join for 5 years go to go to universities in mature student get a proper job my mother still reminds me still asks me when I'm going to get a proper job when I'm going to finish with this military log and do something uh uh serious with my life no seriously I I have been so lucky and I think I've been so lucky because I've always pursued um what one career ambition and and that is to do the work that I find most interesting I've uh it might not sound credible in my current position but I do mean it I I've never sought roles or rank for their own purpose I've only ever sought the work that I think sounds most interesting and that I would find most fulfilling and it stood me in such good stead because I've really enjoyed my career and I've managed to attain these amazing positions I constantly pinching myself that my luck has held for this long and what what what has been the biggest pinch moment as you look at all of that I mean what what was the what have the highs been H there's been so many um so I think when I was in Downey Street um working for David Cameron uh it was the hardest job I've ever done and probably one of the most fulfilling and I've done some hard jobs in my time but most jobs I do in the military I've had some sort of reference point as I've walked into the role I've understood the rank structure or how the report writing is done or some of how people prosecute their operations walking into dowy street I was all at Sea no idea how things were done how things were organized and they made me feel so welcome uh as this um complete Outsider into the Dany Street machine that was that was phenomenal but it was when David Cameron asked me if I would become Deputy National Security advisor for him I think that was a proper pinch myself moment because at the time I was a full colonel in the military enjoying enjoying at that point myself in uh Downing Street and to be asked to take a three star civil servant position um was uh was a moment that caused me to reflect both on whether I thought I had the capacity and the capability to do the job um but also on what and usual Circumstances had led me into into that place to work at the top of the National Security structure within within government um and I found that such a fulfilling and again unusual role effectively I hang my hung my uniform up for two years became a senior civil servant um and traveled the world as uh as a diplomat and Envoy for the Prime Minister offering advice on uh National Security in the globe it was uh it was phenomenal I still can't believe it when I looked back now well if David Cameron is watching um he he'll be pleased to hear he'll be pleased to hear that um quw I I think we're we're pretty well out of time uh I want to thank you so much for coming in uh it's been a fascinating uh discussion um and we appreciate how busy you are so uh this time has been you know we're very very grateful for it and we wish you every success with uh with your ongoing plans thank you st and um just finally how is the core going to celebrate 360 I came to the birthday party for the 350th with the late Duke of Edinburgh I think it it was at the Guild Hall it was very memorable evening so what what what have you got planned for next year we've got a whole Year's worth of excitement ahead of us we're going to make the most of a year of 360 of course it's coincident with a big anniversary in D-Day uh as well which we'll make sure um we pay G respect to and and sweep up into the bigger events um and I'm very lucky that uh we've got a previous raw Marines Vice Chief Who currently has a position of authority in the Tower of London so if I'm really lucky next year we'll manage to secure a very special venue for the 306 60th birthday party and I'll make sure you get an invitation as well no very good thank you thank you very much well um the trouble with these virtual events is we can't uh uh can't really offer the general a round of applause but if you can do that virtually uh we'll feel the vibe uh here in the studio but Gwyn thank you very much really appreciate it than St much thank you