Big Noon Conversations: Texas’ Steve Sarkisian on the SEC move & learning from Saban & Pete Carroll

Intro I was a thermometer I was walking into whatever the situation was whatever the temperature was that's how I responded and I've gotten to now I'm a thermostat I set that temperature most influential people in the sport talking about the sport [Music] globally this time on the Joel clat Show's big noon conversations I talk with Steve sarkeesian the head coach of the University of [Music] Texas all right pleased to be here in Austin with the head coach of the University of Texas Steve sarkeesian Steve what's up buddy up coach Sark I've been trying to get down here wanted to do this last year and uh but now we finally got you so I'm I'm super excited this is awesome um first of all congratulations on a great year uh last year and and it didn't come out of nowhere because you had been laying down the foundation of of what was about to happen last year and you and I had talked about that for quite a bit uh but before we get to that I I want you to just off the off the top what's the best Best part of being the Texas head coach part about being the University of Texas head football coach oh man um I can get into any restaurant I want and there are good ones the food in Austin is great yes no you know what it is it's uh it's um not being from Texas and you hear so much about like what it is like to be the Texas head coach sure um and having been fortunate enough to be at some great places um and then you get here and you kind of put the hat on and myself you know I I feel like I work for everybody else you know and then I try to go about my day like that but man what what you what comes out of it is how many people support you want you to do well um are willing to help in any capacity that they can whether it's the High School coaches the Texas High School Co coaches association what that means you I feel like I'm their head coach because I'm coaching their kids to our donors our boosters our student body the other athletes on campus and so I just try to do my best to support everybody but in reality probably the best part is is that everybody's supporting me um knowing that you know being the flagship program in the state of Texas um and being the football program here we're on the front line you know and and we represent everything that that the Texas Longhorns are about with that pressure being on the front line you know what what what's the old How Sarkisian copes with pressure adage U uh much is given much is required sure um so with that comes a lot of pressure you know with this job I would I would argue that your position maybe coach day at Ohio State maybe a few others are are are some of the unique College coaching positions that have not just pressure but an immense amount of pressure because of the scrutiny that that comes around with being the head football coach at Texas or Ohio State or maybe what coach dor is going to have now following coach Sab at Alabama do you feel that and and and how do you wrestle with it yeah I I think I think a couple things one I was fortunate to be a head coach before right having been at the University of Washington and what that was and trying to resurrect that program um having been an assistant at USC under coach Carol and then been the head coach there and what that felt like and what that looked like and then having been an assistant at Alabama under coach Sabin and I've always tried to kind of observe and watch but then also take in my own experiences along the way um and in the end when I accepted this job um when Chris Del Connie and president Hartzel and chairman El offered me the job I kind of had that moment to say know what you're signing up for and once you once you kind of come to that realization that you know what you're signing up for you understand what the expectations are why am I taking this job right is it just to be a head coach again or is it to strive to be a champion and then can you do it again and again and again and so that that made it pretty easy for me at that point to say I know why I'm taking the job so the expectations that others may have for me mine are probably higher than than what everybody else could think of right right and I think the second part that comes that and this is whatever you do right do what you love love what you do and I and this is the this the greatest job in America and I get to come into this building every single day um I get to try to serve others as best I can to try to lift them up to be the best that they can be and I love what I get to do every day so I don't look at it that way even in year one right when when we were when we were losing games and all that how consistent could I be with my messaging to the players how consistent could I be with the administration with our donors about what we were trying to build and where we were headed and then naturally we started to validate that from year one to year two year two to year three uh now year three to year four you know we didn't finish the deal right and that ultimately that's our that's our goal so now like the change coming to not just How the culture at Texas impacts the staff and team Texas moving to the SEC I mean that's a huge change huge change now all of a sudden we have an expanded playoff and and you know the the the seismic shifts that have been happening in college football and and yet you guys are are trying to navigate this move to the SEC right how has it affected the way that you want to build your program if at all right so what's what's unique about this I feel like college football started to really change in this era it's changed every era right there's always Chang there's been changes but in this era I feel like right when I took this job when when I came I came right at the tail end of that covid season right we had the 2020 season in covid and coming out of that Co season all of a sudden the NCA said we're going to have this thing called the transfer portal and we're going to adjust it okay let's I mean you could argue not to interrupt they threw up their hands yeah like let's wrap our brain around that flood gates okay so that was the first part of like okay we've got this thing the transfer portal now so you mean every kid can transfer every year whenever they want but oh wait we're going to have these windows okay cool but there's two windows so that was the first thing that happened the second thing was this thing called nil that's come into play since we've been here and all right what does that look like and and now as as we're seeing it's it's moving in a direction where it's like do whatever you want basically right so we're we're trying to navigate that whole thing and and then we're not going to police anything yeah so we're going through that one then there's this whole thing of called conference realignment and oh by the way Texas is on the front line of that we're going to the SEC and we're the bad guys because we were the ones that decided to go first and then the floodgates opened on that and we've got USC and Oregon and UCLA going to the big 10 we've got Ken Stanford playing in the ACC I mean there all sorts of stuff has been happening um and so all these different things and then all a sudden now the college football playoff is Shifting and now we're going to to 12 and now it's is it 14 down the the road and all that and so naturally over time that we've been here it's like what is the one thing that we can control all this other stuff is happening and we have to adapt right you have to continually adapt in college football um that was that was something coach Sabin had taught me early on in my time there adapt or die there's a reason Dinosaurs Aren't on the earth anymore right they couldn't adapt and so we've had to adapt right as as this has gone on but it all comes back to our culture right of all the stuff that's happening how how good can our culture be in this building right whether it's the players whether it's the support staff whether it's the coaching staff whether it's the administration is everybody on the same Accord is everybody talking the same language is everybody working together do we have a healthy environment that people want to come in here every day or do they have to come here every day and are they looking to see what's on the other side of the fence is the grass greener and that's not just players coaches are moving around the country now too more than ever and so how do we create an environment where people want to be here every day and are striving for a common goal and committed to this thing collectively and in turn through team success now come the individual accolades Awards honors and draft picks and things of that nature and I think that's one thing that we've been really consistent with and I think that's where the joy comes from for me as a coach is that I feel so good about what we've built culturally granted we've got good players and all that and we've got great facilities but the culture thing is the one thing to me that like I'm most proud of um because I don't feel like sometimes I hear other coaches complaining about different things in their program I'm kind of like we don't we don't really do with that as much you know um because I think it's who we are on a daily basis so it's it's fascinating that you talk about that uh the way that you do because you can make Sarkisian on his sobriety an argument and by the way this this goes for all of us in our individual lives um as a family the more things change and the more things get chaotic outside the more you have to really focus on what do I really control right you know my dad was big into the only thing you you can control is your own effort level y you know he my dad was a former Marine and that's what he would pound into us that's the only thing you have total control over and and since you've been here you and I constantly talk about this culture that you're building and I'm so fascinated because you seem to be not only intensely focused on it but also involved in it and and here's what I mean by that two different ways and you and I share this I'm coming up on 13 years sober you're also sober that was a huge shift in my life and a commitment that I had to make the other commitment I had to make is how open was I going to be about it how forthright was I going to be about it whether that was with my family or those around me you've had to make that same choice that choice for you and how open you are with it in particular with your team is almost Central to what you guys do from a culture standpoint right how did you make that decision well some of them got made for me I'll be honest with you right Same Same by the way so when when all of my stuff occurred initially it was national news sure I mean it was on the ticker right it was everywhere it was on every Sports Talk Radio Show so it really wasn't like something that I could hide from right right and so the reality was okay this is public knowledge this is public information I'm a public figure at this point okay so how are you going to address it how are you going to deal with it then as I navigated my way through it and and being open and honest with those that I was close to and I got back into the coaching ranks I quickly realized in coaching there's this thing called negative recruiting I don't know if you've ever heard of this Joel but that some coaches love to talk about another school or another coach and naturally it was not easy to figure out that other schools and other coaches were going to try to use that against me and so I really became open honest and vulnerable with the recruits first and their families first to talk through my story then I came to find out that why would I not want to share all of that with our team because I always felt like 18 to 22y old males I mean if there's a if there's a guard group of individuals in our society it's that group right trust is not at the highest level being vulnerable being open being honest uh not at the top of the priority list for a lot of young men um we're guarded we want to supress things we want to keep things down so how do I get them to feel comfortable to do that well why don't I share why don't I become vulnerable why don't I give them my story why don't I give my story uncut right it's the it's the version that they're sitting in their chairs thinking I can't believe coach Sark just said all that to us um to a point to where I've given them a platform to say it's okay to be vulnerable to be honest to open up to share issues nobody's judging you we're all just looking to support one another and we've tried to cultivate that um through a process throughout summer and in through training camp every year I do it every year at the start of the summer I tell my story and there's some guys that sit in that team room that have sat in there for 3 four years now have heard the same story and every time they pick up a little something different interesting I've told that story last summer my own son was sitting in that room right and what a perspective that was for him to hear my story now sitting in a chair as one of the players on the team our own coaches but then for me then it does go to our assistant coaches they tell their stories and none of us are perfect we've all got things in our past that we've had to work through and continue to work through so now we've created a platform for the players to start to share and and now what happens is there's some empathy I know what you're going through man and and I know when if you look a little off today I have something to tap into whatever it might be and in the end I think that really did draw us closer but every year you have to recreate it right I lose 25 30 guys that move on and here comes a new batch of 253 guys and how do we get them back into our c cure how do we get them to to to understand it's okay to talk about what's going on in our lives and Coach sark's actually here to help you he's not here to look for what's wrong with you so that he can cut you and move on to the next kid it's actually worked with you to try to make you the best person that you could be Sarkisian on fostering a great team culture it's interesting um you talk about this this culture of vulnerability and I could feel that when I came in in particular this year I came in to do the Kansas State game and just sitting with a couple of your players I remember sitting with Jonathan Brooks specifically and I just thought to myself like man it's not just that he's an impressive kid listen there's impressive kids all over the country you know that every school but but there there was there was something different about the way Jonathan Brooks talked about his teammates that I was like that's different and and I think it goes to the heart of this culture of vulnerability because so often in this business I walk into all these I talk with all of you you know right and everybody talks about culture but everyone talks about culture in terms of performance accountability and all of those things are great and we want our kids to perform and to be accountable but this culture of vulnerability certainly resonated with last year's group sure and I could sense that when I was with Jonathan Brooks the only other team that I sensed that with was Michigan they had a really good Core Group of older players that cared about each other how did you see your culture manifest on the field last year in a way that was tangible to the scoreboard no I I think that's a great point because first of all you know I always I always chuckle when I go into different buildings you know you you try to do some professional development I see a sign that says culture thinking you know what I always think when I see those because I see him too what culture yeah like Define it for me culture what does that mean there's a lot of different cultures for sure I've stepped into buildings and teams and seen teams and played on teams where the culture was terrible yeah so it's like you could put up sign of culture it's like we got a culture of turds yeah like it's like we don't want that because to me culture is organic it's not something that you list out in a team meeting I think it it naturally occurs right every family Dynamic has its own culture right and I think that starts at the top right how the how are your parents you know how are you raised you know what is really what is leadership right nowadays I get a chuckle I I was reading something a good friend of mine John Gordon he put out this morning was about leadership isn't what you put on social media it's how you live every day and so what is the example that we give to the culture that we want as coaches that the players now can look to to say hey that is something I want to emulate that is somebody I want to be like that is somebody I want to I want to shape my life towards and then ultimately what happens like I was telling the group last year at the end end of the year not only did they buy into our idea of the culture I felt like the leaders on that team last year elevated it we we went to another space that I didn't know a college football team could go to now where did that show up I I think culture shows up um against Kansas State yeah tough game over game we're we're controlling the whole game we turn the ball over next thing you know you go to overtime and K States got four plays inside the five yard line and every one of those plays somebody different made the play it wasn't you know tandre sweat didn't make four straight plays you know Ryan Watts made a play J Baron makes a play Jaylen Ford makes a play Baron cell makes a play and so this idea to me of culture and When You're vulnerable and you do really get to know the guy next to you now you get that sense of accountability sure now it's like my brothers are counting on me and you know what I can count on that guy I know I know what he's about he's going to be where he's supposed to be I think that's a great example I think the third Long play against TCU another game that kind of got sideways for a second we had to make a play ad Mitchell who was new to our program Quinn trusted him to go make that play on that go on that go Ball fourth and one against Houston in the fourth quarter you know recognizing the route combination and J Baron you know weaving his way through it on the Sprint out and getting that ball knocked down on fourth down so there's a bunch of those things there's there's a play against Iowa State last year um where Jonathan Brooks had had hurt his knee the week before we went to Iowa State Cedric Baxter became kind of the Bell cow and it was late it was tiring it was it was a physical game and it was fourth down and Jaden blue stepped in the Huddle and we needed to get this fourth down to solidify the game he said coach let me get the ball and CJ Baxter and the L said yeah Blues got it and Jordan Winnington says blue just get behind me and we hand the ball to Jaden who was our third arguably fouram tailback at that time goes and finds a hard yard to get a first down and so to me those all those little kinds of things I think that's why you make those plays in games because guys count on one another because they were had an opportunity to get vulnerable get to know one another yeah it's interesting yeah John Gordon Sarkisian explains culture Wednesday at Texas is really good love love all of his stuff um and one of the other things that I would he he comes every year by the way well you do a speaker Ser I mean you bring a lot of guys that culture Wednesday I know like how does that manifest so we do what's called culture Wednesday every Wednesday all summer long so we do our workouts Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday Wednesdays are about us as individuals right Mind Body Soul recovery things of that nature we start every day with culture Wednesday and we pick a topic I always share first some days we do gratitude trees yeah or what are we really grateful for man like everybody wants what what else can I get everybody's looking at their phone about somebody else what they're doing what vacation they're on what car they're driving what shoes they're wearing but what about some of the things that I have that I'm really grateful for right and so we kind of do that we do a lot of exercises like that and then we'll bring in speakers and John Gordon's great um because the premise of everything that he talks about is about loveh right and yes there's some some great things which we just know I was just talking about there about leadership and things but everything comes back to love right and this idea about loving one another being a teammate of Love Leading through love serving through love that's that's what you're trying to create right because when you have love then you have compassion then you have empathy and then you feel for somebody else and then you'll do anything for them to try to help them get through whatever they're going through and so John is fantastic he comes in every year and speaks to the guys um speaking of leadership uh you have have I don't want to say just like What Sarkisian learned from Pete Carroll and Nick Saban fortunate but in your gratitude tree I'm sure there's like I got the coach under Pete Carol and I got a coach under Nick Sabin and be with the Falcons and Matt Ryan like yeah you've gotten to coach great players coach under great coaches but specifically two guys that just stepped away yeah Pete Caroll Nick Sabin they step away on basically the same day same day and those are I would have to imagine please correct me if I'm wrong the most influential coaching influences in your career hands down what did each of them bring to you crazy to think like I say this in our in my era of coaching the three greatest of all time right if if you put coach sa and Coach Carol and Bill bellich I would agree sucessful ER and those guys in in their organizations that they were part of um the biggest thing I got from those two dramatically different personalities here's Pete Carroll he's bouncing around he's chewing gum he's playing catch every day he's got his gloves on he's creating an environment of energy and that the guys are flying around here's Nick Sabin it's like the the methodical regiment the discipline of this is how we're going to go about our business and this is the approach okay but in the end they're both striving for the the exact same thing which is being Champions they're both highly competitive two of the most competitive humans I've ever been around and both extremely successful but what I what I came to find out of my time having been with Coach Carol then I get back with Coach Sabin and asking those questions were if you look at their careers the second half of their careers is when they really took off yeah I would argue way more successful than the first not even close right both of them right around 50 and then the last 20 22 years they're both 72 have been the greatest years of their of their careers well why is that what happened and so I asked them both the exact same question and really got the exact same answer they figured out who they were and then they coached who they were rather than trying to be something that they're not and because when you when you try to be something you're not when adversity strikes the real you comes out and then everybody arounds you like who the hell's that guy like that's not who he was yesterday and the day before but all a sudden here's this guy that comes out and I think that for me was probably the biggest thing because you remember I was 34 years old I was the head coach University of Washington I didn't know what the heck was going on I was one day I was like this the next day I was like this I was I was at that time and I use this analogy I was a thermometer I was walking into whatever the situation was whatever the temperature was that's how I responded and I've gotten to now I'm a thermostat I set that temperature for how I want it to be every day and then others can either buy into that temperature or not and so if you figure out who you are and then you try to act in accordance to who you are as consistently as possible so everybody knows what to expect and I think that's the beauty of have an opportunity to work for those two guys they're drastically different but they figured out who they were Pete Carrol wasn't following Bill Parcels in New England anymore trying to be how do I be bill parcel's but still be Pete Carol he didn't have to do that anymore right Nick Sabin figured out who he was I see so many coaches now that left that those trees of those two guys that tried to be P Carroll tried to be Nick Sabin and failed miserably yes because they weren't trying to be themselves but still hold on to some of the premises of the things that were really good in that program and like I said I I feel like I've been fortunate to work for two amazing men uh in in our sport that have been tremendous and the life lessons I learned from them well beyond football that I've been able to apply but apply in a way that that fits me so there's a consistency to the approach that I give every day uh I love the analogy that you Sarkisian on adapting to the changing landscape of CFB gave there the thermometer and the the thermostat um I've used the you're either the refrigerator or you're the carton of milk yeah you're either going to turn into everybody that whatever temperature is around you or you're going to turn everything into your temperature that's exactly right which is the exact same same exact thing but in in order to do that there has to not just be a self-belief not just be a confidence there has to be a presence and a groundedness about you know those guys Nick Sabin wasn't comparing himself to anybody else Pete Carol wasn't comparing himself and in in this profession what I see is guys comparing right all the time all the time my program my style my assistance my players to all of these other places and inevitably it doesn't work and I I would make the argument I think it's why we have such high turnover is that the comparison in our industry is so high and now we're seeing it with players too which brings me to Nick's comments after he retired he was and has been incredibly forthright with his displeasure with where we're at right in in college football and and what he thinks that's done to the to the young men participating in college football um you know he basically said my conversations were how much am I going to play and how are much are you going to pay me and he decided that it's it's not for him in this environment how do you grow also adapt to not be a dinosaur and succeed even with these things that he was talking about well I think this I think one why did you choose to come to Texas right and there's there's a formula to that if you lead with nil to get a young man to come to your school then that's why he came there then a year from now what's he going to ask about first nil and so our our kind of perspective on this and our approach to this is we've got an amazing product here the history and tradition of Texas football is Second To None the education the quality of education at UT is incredible inredible the coaching staff we have the development of our players the trajectory of what we've done from year 1 to year two to year three of our program the City of Austin all these things that we're talking about that's why I want you to come to University of Texas nil doesn't come up that should be the last reason to choose to go to a school whether it's Texas or any other school because if and then if you take players predicated off of nil that you want them so bad that you're willing to go to what whatever length and whatever degree to get that kid from an nil perspective of course that's what he's going to talk about the very next year when you bring them into your office and so we tried to create a culture that is a little bit different that way um I think we've got a healthy nil program here our Texas One Fund is fantastic but I got a lot of players that could probably go to another school and make more money but I think we've created a culture that they like being part of they get treated really well they feel like they're getting developed on and off the field they've got a brother Hood with their teammates in that locker room that that they succeed with and we talk to that stuff and we work to that stuff and I'll tell you this you don't play more because you have more nil here and I think we make that very clear as well the best players play that give us the best chance to be successful as a team um that do things the right way on and off the field and you may have a great nil deal this year if you don't play you're probably not going to have a great one next year and maybe you're better suited for somewhere else if that's what's important to you and that's okay there's nothing wrong with that all of that is way easier said than done right and yet you guys have have Navigating the December window in CFB been able to navigate this with less disruptions than others I would just say categorically um and yet I can't imagine the difficulty as a head coach of navigating the those two to three weeks in December when your season ends or continues by the way into a conference Championship game maybe you make the playoff and by the way now it's going to be more teams that make the playoff and high school players are going to sign and the portal is open like one what are we doing two how difficult is that that period and what specifically is the most difficult part that was the hardest month of the year for me last year you got to think about we played in a big 12 championship game MH we qualified for the cfp we were playing the Sugar Bowl against Washington we were signed in a really good high school class a top three top four high school class and we had we thought we might have some portal needs we weren't quite sure so you have to start to recruit these kids as they go into the portal and was extremely challenging because as an offensive head coach and the play caller I want a game plan I mean Kaylin had a really good team in Washington we had to get ready for we wanted to solidify this class I wanted to go on all these home visits I think that that's a sign of respect to go to the homes of the kids were signing um that here's the head coach your son you're giving your son to us we're going to we're going to take what you've done and we're going to try to continue to build him up and oh by the way every every morning I wake up and there's 150 200 300 400 more kids in the portal that day that we're trying to navigate through and practice with our team that that month was was really difficult and quite frankly a little out of control uh I'm hopeful moving forward that we can get the timing of this a little bit better I've been a pro proponent all along of moving Signing Day up to that first Wednesday prior to the conference Championship game so all of your high school kids can sign that that gets put to bed before a portal and then the portal can open that Monday after after that conference Championship weekend and then what I would what I would say you can't enter the portal as long as your team is still in the college football playoff because I just don't know how you have those conversations with your kids as you're trying to get them ready to play a game that next week of who's going to be in who's going to be not because to me the four five six kids that you're talking to that's taken away from from the other 114 kids on your roster and their ability to try to go achieve something that is that is special unique and great um with an opportunity so I do think we're a work in progress in college football um I CFB at an all-time high think this too I think our game is at an all-time high yeah I think the the the I say it in my show all the time the publicity the exposure the conversations I think our weekly games are fantastic they mean something they matter we're not perfect that's okay we're not nothing's perfect perfect we just got to keep trying to chop wood and move it in a positive direction that hopefully over time everybody can feel comfortable with this new era of college football it's new there's nothing wrong with new change is inevitable we're changing that's okay let's just change it in a positive way I think what people fail to realize is how much change has taken place before this era right everyone just thinks like man it it all changed it's like well it's it's been changing for years and forever and ever and ever um as Chip Kelly always puts it and only how chip can you know he kind of sits there he he loves that line from river runs through it nothing perfect lasts forever except in our memory and he was like that's college football and and I'm like okay that's that's good I don't want to give him too much credit but that's good um you touched on on one thing in that answer that I would like How sustainable is it to be the play caller and head coach? to finish with and that is the idea of the head coach being the play caller in the midst of all of this change that we're seeing in college football we saw this off season Ryan day another excellent play caller give up those duties and brought in who I just mentioned Chip Kelly to to call his offense how sustainable is it do you think to maintain your position as the play caller the head coach CEO at Texas uh I think it's sustainable I think the the the the thing for me um and I I can't speak for every every body else you try to hire really good people as as best you can and and people who are really competent and and Excel at what they do and then you try to get them to understand the way we think the way I think as the head coach so that they can make some of the the the day-to-day operational decisions on different things we can have a meeting I can talk to those four or five things and then then they can go handle those things that could be um Kyle flood our offensive line coach offensive coordinator and AJ mil that could be Brandon Harris or general manager that could be John biano with sports information that could be Chris Del Connie with Administration whatever whatever that is right and so as you touch these different these different facets it's like I can still be kind of touching all those things but in trusting them to make sure that it gets followed through with and I think um that was something that I was obviously extremely impressed with with Coach Sabin and what he did with Coach Carol um his ability to manage those things you know in the NFL he was really the president of football operations as well with with the Seahawks and so like I said I just think I was fortunate to be around men that weren't looking at life through a straw right I mean those guys are very worldly they're very aware they're very in tune in touch with what's going on um and I see a lot of other coaches that look at this thing through a straw and they can't see what's going on around them and so I think I was trained really well I was fortunate um I hopefully I can I can call plays as long as I can as long as I can see that dang call sheet man my eyes you know I just turned 50 this year so I don't if my eyes are if I'm going to how how well I can see that you going to go Lincoln Ry Style on I I don't ever want to go to the glasses hanging off the tip of my nose well this year you're going to be having a call to play to I can't wait I I I love another Co change yes it's a good change yes we're talking about coacht player communication next year in college football coaches be able to call plays uh quarterback will here in the look at the NFL kickoff I mean look at what's going on now I mean the change is inevitable okay uh play calling I'm going to end with something you probably don't want to talk about Worst play call and then a good one okay what's the worst play call you've ever made and do you remember it oh my gosh let me think about this well yeah I know exactly what it was fourth and two USC playing Texas National Championship game wait you don't like the call well okay they ran you ran power we had ran power and we have been running it all games you I think you averaged 12 yards a carry on that specific with Lind white but here's my thing about play calling play play calls are good when they work they're terrible when the play doesn't work that's the that's the history of play call can you say that that was your worst play call when it's Texas who actually beat us but look at what's on my chest I I got say that um I don't know that that one always that play I'll never forget sure is probably is probably one of the biggest the biggest reasons why I'll never forget that um I want a million play calls back I don't know if they were the worst play call okay how about the best now let's go what what do you Best play call remember a play in your career that you can remember and you're just like man that was really good I'd go this year we were playing Oklahoma State Big 12 championship game and um I was sitting with Coach Milly our quarterback coach um the night before the game we had an early kick it was the night before the game and I said hey the first time we get third and two third and three like I'm going to I'm going to go in with the odds they we're going to get man coverage and we called the double reverse pass and hit JT Sanders wide open for test I said that's going to be the call I don't care if we're on our own 10 or if we're going in that's that's the call and sure enough it came up in the game and our guys hit it we hit JT and like the whole side all our kids know like they know what's happening and so when we called it and for it to hit the way that it hit it it was pretty special deal man that's great I uh I I remember one and it's nondescript that you made it was I always remember the ones that I'm in the booth for right I was in a couple of years ago for an Oklahoma State game it's a really good game they ended up winning the game but um they you remember they they ran that heavy third down coverage where they would just sit at the chains y yep Y and I told our crew Friday night I said I bet you on Third and medium sarc runs right down the middle of the field at some point yeah at some point with a tight end or or a slot and you guys did it Marcus Washington you hit Marcus Washington and I was like yeah I KN I knew he would do it I knew he would do it oh man sorry coach Gundy sorry hey he beat us that day he had number for a couple years but we got him last year I appreciate your Outro time man this has been really fun this is great yeah you bet it was great thanks Joel we'll see you